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00:00and i don't know some people like to jump out of airplanes for me this is my idea of box
00:05score
00:05spelunking yes yes yes this is my idea of fun and i'm doing it at work what a life they
00:12pay us on
00:13everything luke fox with us from sportsnet as we are well into the playoffs now sadly for us
00:18the sabers didn't quite get here but great run luke um you were around for some of this right
00:25i wonder what as i don't remember talking to you in quite a while here and we had these drought
00:29years that seemed to last forever but buffalo on and off the ice seem to be pretty back this year
00:36oh 100 um and i just think it's so fantastic for the city uh to see that everyone rally around
00:44the
00:44sabers and man i mean they were one of the final five teams playing and uh the margins are so
00:51thin
00:52right like maybe if they had dressed the better goalie they'd be where the montreal canadians are
00:58right now like they gave it everything they had um and the they just came so close um so yeah
01:06i was
01:07able to to make it down drove down um from toronto to buffalo for games five and and the heartbreaker
01:12that was uh game seven and uh but i i'm just so impressed you know especially the way the sabers
01:20season started it felt like oh no here we go again yeah um you know the drought's going to continue
01:27but they turned themselves into an absolute wagon um they seemed to really bond together and i went into
01:35to that dressing room after they lost game seven and and the heartbreak was was real um and the belief
01:42was real like uh you know i got a chance to talk to to tage thompson and he was like
01:47even in overtime
01:48we thought we were going to do it we thought we were the better team uh but this should only
01:52make
01:53them stronger going forward now that they've gotten a taste yeah i don't i'm i'm sure we must have
01:57touched base with you once the sabers turned their season around at least once luke i i hope anyway we
02:02thought to call you when they were like getting good i think you did great um but i wonder if
02:08like
02:08the difference from then to now even is like because the team shows up out of nowhere there was a
02:15lot of
02:15skepticism you know there was the river hockey thing after they beat tampa 8-7 in the game of the
02:20year that one time you know coming out of the olympic or heading into the olympic program or the
02:25timing whichever anyway um and i think even i do this with teams that i'm not following day to day
02:32like i do the sabers you see a team get high like oh that's not real that's not sticky um
02:38do you think
02:39this is sticky for them i mean they've got things they have to do alex tuck front and center
02:42um but do you think that they like pass the test of looking like a contender going forward
02:51i do and that's because i think there's still a relatively relatively young group and i think
02:58you know uh you know yeah they you know alex tuck there's a definite uncertainty there um and if
03:06you know he decides to go to the highest bidder i'm not sure that's going to be buffalo like if
03:10all
03:11he ends up caring about is is setting his family up with the biggest payday possible that might mean
03:17moving on just because of the the market and guys of his caliber are so few and far between
03:24but you know outside of that you got zach benson and peyton krebs rfa uh you know surely there's a
03:33path
03:34to get those guys at a reasonable number even if you have to bridge them and then you got the
03:39core
03:39locked up at very reasonable numbers and you know a guy like josh stone is is just coming into his
03:46own
03:46it seems like rasmus dalene continues to find a level every year above his previous level he was on
03:55my north north uh ballot this year so i i do think their core is young enough um and this
04:03should this
04:04should provide a spark and you know it's funny how fast things can change because the first time i
04:10went down to buffalo for a game uh probably fall early winter a lot of the scuttlebutt was you know
04:17this is probably lindy's last year and and maybe he'll just slide into a front office role or take a
04:24half step back and then all of a sudden you know he's one of the best coaches of the whole
04:29season and
04:30he signs a two-year extension and and the players are professing their belief in him and and and
04:36likewise you know i i so i i do think there's something special that happened this year that
04:41can continue would you be willing to elaborate on that in terms of how you think they did it
04:46this is a question we've asked of various analysts this season as we ourselves have tried to be able to
04:53answer it intelligently like there was the kevin adams move you know you talk about rough for example
04:58it's not cut and dried is it right because we have we're almost two months into the season and i
05:03don't know where this is going and is he too old for this is he gonna like go upstairs we
05:07heard kind
05:08of the same rumors i even thought it was going to happen at one point with rough and then it
05:12didn't
05:12yeah so you know different people have offered different theories on how the sabers did it uh you
05:19know how good maybe one would be or certainly one would be that the roster was always good enough
05:24but then there was a different level of commitment maybe that a switch was flipped there what do you
05:29think yeah well i don't think it's one specific thing i think there's a number of things and i also
05:36think momentum plays a big role like once they you know you point to that tampa game right like once
05:42they have a couple big wins belief starts to grow and that's a very real thing but i do think
05:48there's
05:48something to the kevin adams thing and you're like well you know kekka line didn't really do any
05:53big moves it's not like he he splashed with a monster trade or anything but i had heard you
05:59know through through various people that you know there was um how do i put it like a i guess
06:06a lack
06:06of belief uh in his vision for the team and that that changed once they made the change at the
06:14gm and
06:14it's really unusual situation because usually uh i mean we're seeing it in vegas right now usually it's a
06:20coaching change that sparks a group so it's kind of funny to think you know someone so far removed
06:26from the dressing room as a manager of making a change at that level would have an effect but i
06:31you know many people within uh within those walls told me that that had a real tangible effect and
06:38then another thing you know i talked to darlene once about was you know that they started like
06:45really getting to like each other i think there was a little bit of just checking in you know like
06:51it's like going to you go to work but you don't hang out with your your fellow work employees outside
06:56of office hours they started going for more dinners together he said and you know he had that great line
07:02about you know we had beers i think they hashed it out and they kind of maybe aired some grievances
07:07and
07:08kind of figured out you know as a young group we got to find some answers within our room uh
07:14and and you
07:15know they they tried to find other other ways like even though the trade didn't go through maybe it
07:20sent a message to them that they tried to bring in a pareko that they were kicking tires on a
07:26robert
07:26thomas when you see um your front office it you know showing that belief by trying to add to your
07:32to your group with some of the the bigger names that that were supposedly available at the trade deadline
07:38that probably um instills a little bit of confidence as well so um you know well we'll see where it
07:46goes
07:46because unfortunately for for the sabers they're kind of coming to their own at the exact same time
07:52as montreal uh florida we know is going to come back bigger and and stronger than they were last year
07:59and
07:59the atlantic to me is still the the stronger division in the east so it's it's not going to be
08:04easy
08:04but i think the signs are encouraging luke fox nhl writer with sportsnet on the western hotline
08:11with us here on wgr what would you do with tuck would you pay the whatever the kempie contract
08:19or more or do you think it might be prudent to let a 30 year old player ride off into
08:27the sunset and
08:28not have those regrettable years on the back end of what would probably be a big long term commitment
08:34and it's not that long ago since uh that team had one of those right i'm thinking about jeff skinner
08:40right uh you know you you pay it's it's a tricky thing and i think what buffalo has actually done
08:49very well is getting ahead and betting on guys uh like darlene like josh stone um there's some uh you
08:57know page like there's there's some guys where it was like we want to buy the prime years now talk
09:02there's an emotional factor right um i i firmly believe that he's incredibly beloved in that room
09:09i know he doesn't wear the c but uh he's probably um right up there in terms of leaders in
09:16that group
09:17and then he's got the the home area ties as a western new yorker so that makes it tough
09:23and you hate to see talent walk out the door for nothing i mean there was no way you could
09:29have traded
09:30them in the season that they had but it it looks like bad asset management if you let him walk
09:36but
09:36i think there has to be a limit uh i heard him say that he wants to play till he's
09:4140 years old
09:42um and he it's not like he's a one-trick pony his defensive capabilities as a forward are very strong
09:49but you know uh i think you get into tricky territory when you you're probably probably
09:56paying top dollar for the back half of someone's career and um that could bite you down the road so
10:04it's going to be it's not gonna be an easy one i don't think for the player or for keke
10:08line in
10:08this negotiation but i think you have to set a limit and i don't know if i'd go eight figures
10:14on an
10:15aab i might do nine point something but um i think you you can't overextend yourself um because
10:22you got to get there's going to be other options on trade or what have you and if you keep
10:27your
10:28your cap flexibility um and you know maybe invest maybe make a bigger bet on on benson i mean i
10:36loved
10:36his playoffs maybe you bet a little bit more on him and don't bridge him and try to spend some
10:41of
10:41that cap money instead on um locking him up for longer so there's options here and but but what
10:49great problems to have before it was like where do you start now it's just like one or two guys
10:54you're
10:54trying to stick handle around it's a much different conversation than what you guys are used to in the
10:58off season no doubt about that benson to the preface to your uh joining us luke five misconduct
11:06penalties in these playoffs leads the pedal leads the playoffs in penalty minutes he's been out for a
11:10round oh he still does he still does i think so 64 is the number um fourth most misconducts in
11:18any
11:18playoff ever in the nhl in nhl history wow that that's the i didn't realize it was that i know
11:26i
11:26didn't i didn't realize there were five game misconducts i don't not game misconducts just
11:30misconducts right okay right yeah that's pretty pretty crazy you know i'm my uh feelings on talk
11:37luke are very similar to yours i think one thing that might and we've had this conversation today
11:43and a lot here bulldog and i that might push against that is the sabers have a respectfully
11:50long history of their best players leaving like that's kind of right there at the like chapter two
11:58in sabers history behind like the existence of the team is chapter one would be all that hashick all
12:04the names through the years of guys that have left i would say they just and they win cups
12:08unfortunately that's right nope right result that's right reinhardt michael yeah o'reilly
12:14so i mean con smith winner salt in the world so do the sabers care about that in this moment
12:21i think it's almost been well i can't say that because these are recent examples i wanted to say
12:25i think it's almost been too long for them to have to worry about it but if they're trying to
12:30establish a certain standard financially maybe this is where they go well we know this is probably
12:37a bad contract in the long term but we want to kind of what darcy tried to accomplish by matching
12:44that
12:45offer sheet with vanik like you can't just sort of walk all over us this is different than that but
12:50i
12:51wonder if that would enter into their considerations well i'm sure i'm sure they've spun it around look from
12:57all angles um what i would say though is to me their window is just beginning and it could be
13:06a
13:06long window if this was towards the the end you you could probably make a better case for re-signing
13:14him
13:14at top dollar and saying well we got to win now anyway we can't let talent walk out the door
13:19who who are
13:20going to find to replace him uh this is our chance but to me this is this is a longer
13:26window
13:26and to make that kind of investment you got to be pretty careful uh because you don't want to be
13:33hamstrung if something else becomes available or one of your prospects you know starts to shine and
13:39then now you're you get handcuffed you know i think about what happened to to the edmonton oilers you
13:45know they they tied up some money big money in a guy like say darnell nurse and then uh broberg
13:52comes
13:52along and it's like well we don't have any money to pay this defenseman because we paid the older guy
13:57so like sometimes there's something that you don't see coming that you want that money available for
14:03uh so you got to be you got to be careful here and you know if you're yarmo maybe you
14:09really try to
14:10shave off one or two million and and on and try to play into tux like hey you're happy here
14:18you're
14:18good fit here your teammates love you this the city loves you you know if you if you go into
14:26the 10
14:26million plus near 11 million it's a different kind of pressure like you know then you become a bit of
14:34a
14:34lightning rod right now you're a hero you got i think it kind of got a bit of an easy
14:39pass
14:39considering he's got zero points in that round uh you know but if he was uh if he's a 10
14:46million
14:46dollar player he's probably getting less of a pass you know what i'm saying for sure for sure yeah
14:52no doubt yeah the the question is like we're so much of what you talk about with a player at
14:58his age
14:5830 and a seven or eight year contract which only the sabers can do before july 1st is you know
15:06you watch a playoff series and you're waiting i'm i was waiting at locker clean out to hear what
15:13his injury was and he said there was nothing some nuisances is all he said he had and because i
15:20thought there had to be something that would explain there wasn't i mean obviously he had zero points
15:25but there were just in the games i thought often you just if you noticed him it was because he
15:31was
15:31getting walked around it wasn't like he was making plays and real close to me there was one good
15:36chance in game seven off a rebound that was really it um and so you worry is the cliff already
15:42here did
15:43we just get a sneak preview of the cliff because that would be horrible like it's one thing to bite
15:49off a long-term deal at a cap figure that you can barely tolerate if you get three or four
15:55good years
15:55on the front end of it but it's like we're already at the cliff and don't know it yet holy
15:59cow buyer
15:59beware that it's oposo right yeah you may have already gotten his best years and you don't know
16:06it and i think he's a hard worker and uh you know he's not gonna just kick his feet up
16:12right once he
16:13gets his payday whether that's in buffalo or elsewhere but you know father time is is undefeated
16:20uh and that the thing is it's like you know he was great in the in the boston series he
16:26produced there
16:28but and i and i i think he's responsible and he's got like the intangibles in terms of character
16:34and leadership and good in the community and all that but once you're making 10.5 you better be a
16:40game breaker and is he going to be a game breaker at age 33 you know if this is a
16:47seven or eight year
16:47deal he's in the middle of the deal is he going to be game breaker worth um payday worthy i
16:54don't know
16:54um and and that's the a decision that they're going to have to make i mean
17:01nikolai ehlers right he he's to me the nikolai ehlers maybe of this class in terms of the best
17:09winger that's available and that might end up on a different team and you know winnipeg
17:15maybe regretting it like it's it's going to be a gamble either way a couple minutes left with uh luke
17:21fox
17:22if you have it luke just um looking around the league a little bit get to the the rest of
17:26the
17:26playoffs but how about the leafs so we're getting the coaching change uh that was not necessarily a
17:34given after the way the start of the offseason sounded how how big a lift do the leafs have to
17:40get good again it's big it's big uh you know winning the the draft lottery is a massive jolt of
17:51hope in the fan base that was that was pretty down after a 30 point decline year over year
17:58uh and then rumors of is matthews really happy and uh you know are you know not everyone was thrilled
18:08with the in the market with the choice of of going with john jacques gm um kind of a off
18:17the board
18:17higher not not a big proven name so that injected a lot of hope and life into the into the
18:26city and
18:26into the into the group but uh you know i think just hockey wise you look at these playoffs it's
18:34fast and the leafs played a slow brand of hockey this past season they're getting a little older
18:39a lot has to break their way they need their goalies to be healthy they need chris tanev
18:45to come back to camp ready to go they need austin matthews uh his knee to heal one but also
18:53get back
18:54to being a 50 goal threat he wasn't that right he didn't even get to get to 40 this past
18:59season
19:00and then they need more mobility on the back end um they never truly replaced marner as as matthews
19:07winger they need another top six winger there's there's multiple holes in this roster um so that doesn't
19:14mean they can't turn it around in a few years but the way montreal is going the way buffalo is
19:19going
19:19the way tampa is maintained and florida is expecting to bounce back uh they're going to be in a dog
19:25fight
19:25i think just to make the playoffs next year you mentioned not replacing marner and all he does is
19:31help vegas sweep the best team in the league this year in the conference final i saw i saw this
19:37through
19:38greg wischinski by way of sean mackindow i think um maybe in a few years the leafs can bring
19:43marner back as a grizzled winner that'll that'll go over well right no brainer uh everyone everyone's
19:51got their zingers on marner regarding marner's success it is wild though like right now he's the
19:58cons my favorite um he he never won three rounds in nine years in toronto and he's already won three
20:05rounds in his first year in vegas you can't write this stuff that's very relatable that's the
20:12the point from earlier about the sabers who left um whose cup is it is um i mean vegas is
20:19in the
20:19final they're obviously live to win but is carolina maybe too good
20:25uh yeah i think if freddie anderson can you know continue to play well enough i feel like carolina's
20:33the the deeper team and uh you know i i think it's gonna be a fantastic final because uh you
20:42know
20:42montreal could still upset i just uh you know they're getting 12 that recipe that recipe and they
20:51already went seven twice and it looks like the if they're gonna sneak through they're gonna have to
20:56go seven again like uh i i just i just don't see it it's hard to you know you never
21:02want to count a team
21:03out but it's hard to see it and carolina is like very healthy they're they bought into their identity
21:10they just roll four lines that they roll 60 they just they have a game plan they stick with it
21:17and eventually they generate enough chances that they seem to to get by um but vegas seems to be
21:25if carolina is a straight line in terms of consistency vegas has been uh on an on an incline
21:33they've got they were better against anaheim than they were against utah and they were better
21:38against colorado than they were against anaheim they they have something special brewing there
21:42and um you know i think credit to their their goaltending credit to marner uh you know i hate
21:49to say it on this on this station but credit to eichel and then to tortorella i mean crazy for
21:55a team to
21:55to make a coaching change that late and to have this this quick success it is annoying i i just
22:02i
22:02dislike the precedent so much just sort of as a you know it's how i was raised a little bit
22:07doesn't seem fair that you get fired so late in the season like cassidy did but they weren't either
22:13that good i mean they were right look at their record they're absolutely playing there i mean
22:17mark stoneback matters a lot to that but they're playing the best hockey of the season right now
22:22yeah gotta admit they're doing all right luke well it's been great uh hearing from you again and
22:26spending time together thanks for this all right thanks for having me on guys have a good one you
22:31too luke fox luke fox jukebox one of the best handles out there on the socials bulldog calls it x
22:37you
22:37you
22:37you
22:37you
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