- 12 hours ago
In a big political development, Siddaramaiah has been asked to step down as chief minister of Karnataka by the Congress high command, according to sources.
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00:00Good evening, hello and welcome, you're with the news today, your prime time destination, news, newsmakers, talking points, Tuesday night,
00:07we have a big story that's been breaking this evening, is Siddharamaya, the congress's big satrap, finally on his way
00:15out as chief minister of Karnataka, that's the news we're getting at the moment, we'll tell you more on that
00:20exclusive breaking news, also, Arvind Panagriya, one of the country's leading economists, will join us in our continuing series,
00:30on the state of the economy, the chairperson of the 16th finance commission, and how big is the CBSC evaluation
00:39crisis, we've had the neat mess, now could we have a CBS evaluation mess, that is our talking point, news
00:46without the noise.
01:14We'll see you next time.
01:17of stepping down, and a key role will be given to him, ahead of Lok Sabha Poles, with DK Shiv
01:23Kumar, the front runner to replace him, Siddharamaya has so far not commented, or not committed, to actually stepping down
01:31voluntarily, but all eyes therefore, will be on him, in the next couple of days.
01:36Joining me now is Moshmi Singh, who broke that big story, and Nagarjun Dwarakarnath, our bureau chief for South India,
01:44appreciate both of you joining us.
01:46Moshmi, is it very clear, that in that one on one meeting today, between Rahul Gandhi and Siddharamaya, he was
01:52asked to step aside, and has Siddharamaya agreed to do so, or has he dug his heels in again?
02:03Rajdi, one thing is very clear, that in this seven hour long series of marathon meetings, at Indira Bhavan, one
02:11very crucial meeting, that was the turning point, was with Mr. Kharge and Rahul Gandhi meeting Siddharamaya, and then one
02:19on one Rahul Gandhi and Siddharamaya are talking, and our sources have confirmed that Siddharamaya was asked, to step down
02:28as chief, and then one on one, Rahul Gandhi and Siddharamaya are talking, and our sources have confirmed that Siddharamaya
02:28was asked to step down as chief,
02:28minister, he's been the longest serving chief minister, he's been the longest serving chief minister, has acquired that milestone, and
02:34the leadership proposed that he could come to Delhi, and do the politics of Delhi, via the Raj Sabah, or
02:41other options could be worked out, now Siddharamaya, I'm told, has asked for some more time, to mull over the
02:49proposal, clearly he didn't have an answer in yes or no, and we will have to wait and see, how,
02:56what option does he really act,
02:58except, whether he prefers to come to Delhi, via the Raj Sabah, or just simply plans to resign, that is
03:06an option, that will unfold in the coming days.
03:13Okay, Nagarjud, we've seen in the past, so near yet so far, for DK Shiv Kumar, do you believe that
03:20this time, Siddharamaya is finally willing, to throw in the towel, so far, he's been resisting all the pressure, of
03:27the alleged two and a half years, two and a half years, rotational chief ministership deal, that was allegedly struck
03:33in Karnataka, is he more willing this time, to step down, what are you picking up?
03:39I'm told that he's willing to quit Rajdeep, but also remember, this is a forced decision, he would not want
03:45to quit, unless Rahul Gandhi has told him to quit, in this one-on-one meeting, that Maasmi was mentioning,
03:49I think Rahul Gandhi has delivered the message,
03:51asking Siddharamaya to step aside, to ensure he moves to Delhi, and take up a bigger role, and plays a
03:57crucial role, in consolidating the OVC, at national level, not just at the state level,
04:02and what we are picking up, through our sources, is that, Rahul Gandhi is very specific, of having a respectable,
04:08and exit to Siddharamaya, he specifically told the party, to ensure that,
04:13it can't be like a pilot, ejecting off a cockpit, in a jet flight, rather having a smooth landing, so
04:19it should not also, dent the image, of Congress party, being anti OVC,
04:24and that's the reason why, he's specific, about respectable exit, and Rajasab has been offered, and we are told, that,
04:31he might even resign,
04:32as soon as, the next 48 hours, and he's flying back tonight, many ministers, are reaching his residence, at 12
04:39in the midnight, now,
04:40to get into, once again, in a huddle, and, tomorrow, or day after, might likely, there will be, an official,
04:45resignation letter, being sent, to the Rajpavan.
04:51Okay, so, you're saying, as early, as 48 hours, from now, Mr. Siddharamaya, could resign, interesting, there, it clearly, is
05:00fast, developing, and presumably, therefore,
05:02DK Shivkumar Nagarjun, becomes the front runner, no question, of a compromise candidate, am I correct?
05:08Absolutely, Rajasab, the whole question, of removing, Sidharamaya, was, to accommodate, DK Shivkumar,
05:13there can't be, a situation, where, Mr. Kargi, or Mr. Parmeshwar, or some random person, would be, accommodating, the CM
05:19chair,
05:20this whole reason, of removing, a big, OVC leader, is to ensure, that, DK Shivkumar, gets his fair share, of,
05:27the power, also,
05:28and that's the reason, why, he's the front runner, today, and, I spoke to, a couple of people, within, his
05:33close camp,
05:33like, his ears, and eyes, of, DK Shivkumar, the information, has not sunk in, yet, the feeling, has not sunk
05:39in, yet,
05:40they are, yet, to believe, that, this is happening, considering, Sidharamaya, stature, is, so, big, in Karnataka,
05:45the feeling, of, being, the next, Chief Minister, of, Karnataka, has not sunk in, with, DK Shivkumar, yet.
05:53Okay, we'll wait, and see, how this plays out, clearly, with, Karnataka, you never know, it's never done, till it's
05:58done,
05:58but, for now, the big news, coming in, at least, the high command, seems, to have, decided, that, it's time,
06:05to move on, from the 78-year-old, DK, from the 17-year-old, 8-year-old, Sidharamaya, to a
06:11new leader, in the Deputy Chief Minister,
06:13DK Shivkumar, will it be smooth?
06:15Thank you both, very much, for joining us, because, joining me now, is, B.S. Arun,
06:19former Deputy Editor, of the Deccan Errol, Senior Journalist, from Karnataka, join me.
06:24Arun, do you believe, this will be smooth, given, that, in the past, Sidharamaya, is the kind, of, leader,
06:29who, simply, doesn't, go away, quietly, we've seen, over, his career, started, with, the JDS,
06:35the Janta Parivar, JDS, broke, from, his mentor, Devagauda, joined, the Congress, do you see, him, going, away, quietly?
06:45Well, one thing is that, the party high command, needs to placate him, because, he is the unquestioned leader,
06:52of the Ainda group, the backward classes, and the Muslims.
06:56So, the question is, how far, this high command will go, to, protect his, interests, his wishes.
07:03That's number one.
07:04Number two, is that, you know, Sidharamaya is never known to rebel, and start a new party.
07:09He has never done that, like, say, unlike, Devagauda, or, Yad Europa, who, started their own parties.
07:17The thing is, here, you know, the, the, the, background for, Sidharamaya is that he, he has not started any
07:23new party,
07:24so he doesn't rebel, as such.
07:26And, the party has given him everything.
07:29In the last, you know, if you see, his track record, since 2013, he became chief minister,
07:35and he became leader of their position, and again, chief minister, in the span of these 13 years,
07:40except for one year, when Kumaraswamy was there, when he didn't enjoy any, you know, office,
07:47otherwise, he had been one thing or the other.
07:49So, the party has given him everything.
07:51And, another thing, right, Dave, his supporters had been saying that, if Rahul Gandhi asks him to quit, he will
07:58quit.
07:58Even his close supporter, Kane Rajana, the former minister, just said this morning, repeated the same thing.
08:05So, he, it doesn't seem that, you know, Sidharamaya will rebel or go against him.
08:10But, the fact is, he will extract his pound of flesh.
08:14He will demand certain things, maybe including the party presidentship in Karnataka for his supporter.
08:22Jarki Holi has already, you know, demanded that post.
08:26Jarki Holi, Satish Jarki Holi is one of, close confidants of Sidharamaya and the current PWD minister.
08:32So, things like that, he might demand, you know, certain plump posts for his supporters and the like.
08:38The thing is, being the unquestioned leader of this Ahinda and backward classes group,
08:44the party needs Sidharamaya.
08:46The party needs him to face the next election, the 2028 and 2029.
08:51The party has to keep him in good humor and, hence, the party will have to accept his demands in
08:58the next few days.
09:03But, Arun, you see, that comes to the key.
09:05Sidharamaya is seen by many as a mass leader, particularly, as you said, of the Ahinda group,
09:10the backward classes, the minorities and Dalits.
09:15And many believe that even his Kurba community was a critical factor in the Congress winning the elections in 2023
09:22in Karnataka.
09:24Now, how do you reconcile him with a Shiv Kumar?
09:28Shiv Kumar, vocaliga, yes, resourceful, good organizer, but may not quite have the mass appeal of a Sidharamaya.
09:35Can they work together?
09:36Or is the Congress now simply trying to cut its losses ahead of the elections in 2028?
09:43Can Shiv Kumar and Sidharamaya actually work together as a team?
09:47Do you see that happening?
09:49Is this the last that we have seen of this faction battle in Karnataka or not?
09:55Well, it's a bit difficult to say.
09:57But then, Shiv Kumar will have to take care of the interests of Sidharamaya.
10:00How D.K. Shuk Kumar will look after those interests in the next few months or few years
10:08will depend to a large extent how Sidharamaya will behave with D.K. Shuk Kumar.
10:15It's not that he won't give any trouble to Shuk Kumar, but then if his supporters are given plumpos,
10:22if the KPCC Presidentship comes to Sidharamaya's group, and then Sidharamaya may not create any problem.
10:28Because, you know, the thing is, Sidharamaya or Shuk Kumar in public, there was no acrimony between them.
10:39They were courteous towards each other and to that extent, you know, in public, they have not fought.
10:47Inside the, you know, four walls, yes, there might have been trouble between them.
10:52But then, in public, they have not shown any acrimony, acrimonyous behavior between them.
11:01You know, so what you are saying, therefore, is that as of now, you don't see Sidharamaya raising a red
11:09flag of revolt
11:11given the fact that we are told by our sources that he's been asked to step down.
11:15You believe that they will have to find a working relationship and a respectable position for Sidharamaya,
11:21particularly because Rahul Gandhi has been going around saying that the Congress needs a strong OBC face.
11:27Now, like it or not, Sidharamaya is the only OBC chief minister the Congress had.
11:33Do you see him moving to Delhi? A quick answer.
11:36Do you see Sidharamaya more comfortable in Karnataka?
11:39Or do you see him moving to Delhi as he has been offered a Rajya Sabha?
11:43Do you see that happening or not?
11:45Absolutely, he will be comfortable in Karnataka.
11:47But then, in the absence of not being the CM, what else he can look for?
11:51He might look for a Rajya Sabha seat.
11:54And right now, there is an opportunity to fill that seat.
11:56The elections are going to be held on 18th of next month.
11:59So, it's the ideal time for Sidharamaya also to move into another position in Delhi.
12:06And in Bangalore, if Shukumar becomes the chief minister, you know, Sidharamaya might not get anything.
12:12He has to be just one MLA in the party.
12:16And inside Vidhan Salta, he has to just watch Shukumar as the chief minister.
12:22So, it's better for him to get his pound of flesh and then move to Delhi.
12:27And maybe become general secretary.
12:29Maybe become, you know, in charge of all the states of South India.
12:33So, that would be an honourable exit for Sidharamaya also.
12:39So, he becomes the face, in a way, of the Congress party in southern India.
12:44Becomes their OBC face in national politics.
12:47But it's interesting.
12:47All of this, of course, has been going on for over a year.
12:51We could be finally reaching the end game.
12:53But I repeat, with the Congress, nothing is done till it's signed, sealed and delivered.
12:59And so far, no official statement has come that Mr. Sidharamaya saying that he is stepping down as chief minister.
13:06Mr. Arun, for joining me and giving us some of your local ground level expertise.
13:12Appreciate.
13:13Meanwhile, we are getting now, it is now confirmed.
13:16We are told it is now confirmed.
13:18Sidharamaya will resign.
13:20The big story that we are getting at the moment, Mr. Sidharamaya will resign.
13:25That is now confirmed.
13:27The story that was first broken here on India today.
13:32Okay, so our source is now reconfirming that Mr. Sidharamaya will resign as Karnataka's chief minister.
13:40So, the decks have been cleared now for that leadership change.
13:44He has been asked to step down.
13:46It's the big story that we are breaking here on India today.
13:52Remember, he is the longest serving chief minister that Karnataka has had.
13:57He has gone ahead.
13:58He will resign on Friday.
14:00Sources now telling India today, Mr. Sidharamaya will resign as Karnataka's chief minister on Friday.
14:08It marks the end of a long period in power for Karnataka's chief minister.
14:15The source is confirming to India today that Mr. Sidharamaya's resignation will come on Friday.
14:23That's the big story that we've been breaking.
14:27Sagai Raj joins us from Bangalore, Sagai.
14:30Is Friday now confirmed?
14:35Okay, so we are waiting in on our correspondent, Sagai Raj, to join us in a moment.
14:41Can we, the fact is, Sidharamaya so far, remember, had not commented.
14:46He's moved to Karnataka Bhavan and is taking a flight tonight itself back to Bengaluru to meet his supporters.
14:52We are told that DK Shivkumar is parked in Delhi.
14:56He will probably leave tomorrow morning.
14:58But the Karnataka power tussle that has been brewing for so long has finally been settled.
15:05Mr. Sidharamaya will be replaced by, in all probability, DK Shivkumar, who claimed that there was a two-and-a
15:16-half-year rotational agreement between the two.
15:21Sidharamaya to tender his resignation on Friday itself with DK Shivkumar, the frontrunner, to replace him.
15:29So, major shift in the Congress's politics in Karnataka with this change taking place.
15:36Remember, in the last few days, VD Satishan becoming Chief Minister, generational change in Kerala.
15:42Congress tying up with Vijay in Tamil Nadu and now a change in God in Karnataka.
15:47The Congress trying to boost its prospects, especially in southern India, ahead of the 2028 election in Karnataka.
15:57And then, of course, the 2029 general elections.
16:02Sidharamaya, set to resign on Friday, is the big story that we've been breaking here on India Today.
16:10Okay, let's move on to our next big focus on the show today.
16:17Okay, let's turn from the Karnataka political drama to the story that we've been tracking every day.
16:22The big story on the state of the economy in the backdrop of the continuing crisis in West Asia that
16:29shows no signs yet of a resolution.
16:32A day after petrol and diesel prices were hiked for a fifth time in a fortnight, CNG prices have been
16:39increased by two rupees today.
16:41This is the fourth hike in CNG prices in less than two weeks.
16:46One kilo of CNG now costs 83.09 rupees in Delhi.
16:50CNG prices were earlier hiked by two rupees on May 15th, one rupee each on May 18th and 23rd.
16:58The price, therefore, has gone up by six rupees per kilo within two weeks.
17:04So, CNG also now affected.
17:06All of this, of course, is putting the focus squarely on the economy,
17:10which is why, as part of our stellar panel of guests that we've been getting today,
17:15I'm joined by Dr. Arvind Panagriya, Chairman, 16th Finance Commission.
17:19Appreciate you joining us, Dr. Panagriya.
17:24Yesterday, the finance minister said there were three Fs that the economy was having to deal with.
17:30Foreign exchange, where the reserves have plummeted by nearly 40 billion since February 2026.
17:37Fertilizer subsidies that are likely to surge beyond three lakh crores.
17:42And the third F being fuel prices that have been hiked four times in 11 days.
17:47Your sense, Dr. Panagriya, how serious is the situation that the country is facing at the moment?
17:55Well, there is an external shock here.
17:59And it is a reasonably severe one.
18:02Now, the question is, how long-lasting will it be?
18:06But all the three Fs are in front of us to see.
18:10Foreign exchange reserves have declined, while rupee has been depreciating as well, simultaneously.
18:20And fertilizer subsidies have risen, and fuel prices have risen.
18:24So, I think there is a bit of a challenge from the external front to deal with.
18:33And I think the steps so far that the government has taken are all in the right direction.
18:40We may have to go further in that direction on all of these fronts, actually.
18:48But on the other hand, I personally think that the economy is quite robust.
18:54In this sense, I don't see that there is a crisis in the economy, as some are saying.
18:59You know, if you want to look at some characteristics, you know, growth has been robust for the last three
19:04years, averaging 7.3%.
19:08Fixed investment, or what we call the gross fixed investment, has been very steady for the last three to four
19:16years.
19:16I have seen the figures between 31% and 32% of the GDP.
19:21Inflation has averaged about 4.3% during the last three years.
19:26Current account deficit has stayed within 1% of the GDP.
19:31So, you know, all in all, I think the economy is starting, at least, you know, when you look at
19:38February 27th, when the crisis began.
19:42It was, has been quite robust.
19:45And that, I think, is a big, big problem.
19:48Sir, you're saying, sir, you're saying the economy is essentially robust, and that what is happening is largely due to
19:59the external shocks that have been created.
20:01But I have had guests on my show, including Dr. Surjit Bhalla, whom you know well, who went last week
20:07and came on my program,
20:08and his comments went viral, saying the economy is in a terrible shape.
20:12He spoke about the fact that FDI flows had declined, FII outflows were increasing.
20:19There was a sense that other economists are saying that the micro and small enterprises have suffered one hammer blow
20:26after another over the last decade.
20:28That has impact on job creation.
20:31Are you saying there are no structural weaknesses that we are facing in the economy, that this is purely the
20:37result of external shocks?
20:40Yes, I think there are no new structural imbalances.
20:43You know, the old lasting structural imbalances about which I have myself spoken, meaning that we are still in a
20:51long-term kind of structural issue.
20:54We continue to have 46 percent of the workforce in agriculture.
20:59Urbanization is still quite low.
21:01So those are very long-term structural features of the economy which need to change over the next couple of
21:08decades.
21:09But other than that, you know, as far as the FDI part is concerned, I think, you know, there has
21:16been a lot of confusion on this, Razeeb.
21:21What we, you know, the figure that we have traditionally trekked is called the gross fixed, sorry, gross direct, gross
21:30foreign direct investment, gross FDI.
21:32That figure has stayed actually quite robust, you know, for 24-25, it was about $81 billion.
21:42And for 40, sorry, for 24-25, for 25-26, it has been $94 billion.
21:51So that figure has been robust.
21:53What has changed is that repatriation of the past investment by the foreigners into the Indian economy has suddenly spiked.
22:03And that has kind of taken out about maybe in the last year, 24-25, about $20 billion extra.
22:12And about $10 billion extra has been the investment by the Indians abroad.
22:19So that, and then the portfolio investment has also taken a hit.
22:24So those are the components.
22:26But the, you know, the key figure that we all track, the gross FDI, that has been very robust.
22:33And to me, that is the indicator of economy's productivity, how the foreigners or foreign investors are viewing the future
22:43productivity of the economy is determined more by the gross FDI rather than these other figures.
22:50Now, these other figures, other concepts, meaning, you know, repatriation, portfolio, et cetera, are more sensitive to what happens outside.
22:58I mean, that is also actually resulting from what is happening outside.
23:04Yeah, but there are two concerns.
23:07And you've at times also reflected this.
23:09One is the regulatory cholesterol.
23:11I know that the government has at times tried to remove that.
23:14But the regulatory cholesterol, many investors say, still remains too high.
23:19There are also, of course, concerns over the judicial system and the manner in which companies find that there is
23:26a lack of consistency in decisions that are handed over by courts.
23:30All of this makes many believe wary of just how, wary of the future.
23:37Are you not worried that investors are no longer seeing India as their preferred destination?
23:43Well, as I said, you know, there is no big change in the perceptions of the foreigners in terms of
23:50how they say the productivity of the investments in India.
23:55That being said, all the problems you mentioned, the regulatory cholesterol, judicial system not functioning in the way you would
24:06like it to function in a modern economy, those issues remain.
24:10I certainly do not deny those are areas of economic, I mean, areas of future reforms that remain.
24:19Judicial reforms in particular, I think, you know, nothing has happened on the judicial front.
24:24I have myself been skeptical that anything can change there.
24:27And as a result, you would notice that I've written about almost all subjects in the past two decades, but
24:35not on judicial reforms.
24:36But now that, you know, most of the union governments' big ticket reforms have happened, you know, other than the
24:44process reforms, which is where the regulatory cholesterol remains.
24:48I am now beginning to kind of get to the judicial reform issue also, and I think we will need
24:54in the next decade or two, really, really major reforms.
24:59In fact, if you track back the history of when the Prime Minister started speaking about 2047, first thing he
25:06started off with was judicial reforms.
25:13Sir, the other question, of course, and this is because you are also the chairperson of the 16th Finance Commission,
25:18is that at one level, the Prime Minister is calling for austerity from the country.
25:22Don't buy gold, be careful with your foreign travel, conserve fuel.
25:27But we have seen consistently, particularly at election time, the kind of freebies or the kind of rave-dee, as
25:34some would call it, that are being given, handed over, cash benefits that are being handed over to citizens or
25:41voters just before election.
25:42And several governments are running huge revenue deficits.
25:45There's a sense that the government has not tightened its belt.
25:49You are asking we, the people, to tighten our belt, but governments have not tightened our belt.
25:53Do you believe that this crisis, if I may call that, needs also a change in mindset of the way
26:00the government also handles the public exchequer?
26:04So, first, I think, you know, what Prime Minister called for was moral suasion, which is in a situation of
26:11an external shock.
26:15It's the duty of any good leader of a country.
26:20Now, what you're questioning is that, you know, the governments have to lead by example.
26:25I agree with that.
26:28The way I would put it is that I agree with the fact of freebies having proliferated.
26:33I think that's a matter of fact.
26:35Nobody can deny it.
26:36The way I would put it is that as far as the expenditures are concerned, generally at least the union
26:42government and large part of the state governments have acted responsibly, meaning if you look at their fiscal deficits, they
26:49have not been overly large.
26:50There are a few states, you know, we all know it, actually, you know, you've got Punjab, West Bengal, Kerala,
26:57and a couple of others, where deficits have been rather large and they need to tighten the belts and also
27:08irresponsible spending.
27:09But by and large, I would say that, you know, while these freebies have proliferated and every single party is
27:18announcing these during the election time, the fiscal, I think, overall, if you take aggregate of the states, aggregate of
27:26the union, we have done a reasonably good job, actually, after the COVID.
27:30We were also very prudent during COVID, but also after that, we have continued to consolidate fiscally.
27:39However, that doesn't kind of take away the fact that, you know, the freebies effectively is not the most productive
27:47way to spend public resources.
27:50And therefore, some restraint on that is required.
27:55I think gradually the government, all parties will realize that freebies don't win the elections.
28:03Good delivery actually wins the elections.
28:05And I think, you know, they will themselves gradually disappear.
28:11But in a democracy, I think, you know, neither you nor I can stop that from happening.
28:17That is a part of a democratic process.
28:26In conclusion, therefore, Dr. Panagriya, you seem to, therefore, disagree with Dr. Bhalla, who said, forget about Fragile 5, India
28:36is part of Fragile 2 now, India and Turkey, saying that the real problem was structural, collapsing FDI, weakening investor
28:42confidence, policy uncertainty, stalled reforms.
28:45You believe that his comments that many of these issues predate the West Asia crisis is being unduly alarmist.
28:53You're far more confident that the economy is robust.
28:57Am I correct that you believe that the economy will remain on the growth trajectory, will return to a 7
29:04-8% growth trajectory and not get stuck at 5% and 6%.
29:08Am I correct?
29:10Right.
29:10So, the way I put it is that, you know, given where the situation is currently, even under the most
29:18optimistic scenario, we will probably lose half a percentage point in growth.
29:24So, you know, if the crisis ends tomorrow, let us say, it will still take time for the oil supplies
29:29to come back up on stream and all.
29:32So, I would still think that growth rate will probably be about 6.5%.
29:36If the crisis continues through the year, then I would say we'll get to about 6%.
29:41But the view that Dr. Bhalla has presented, I must say, is alarmist.
29:47To me, really, you know, any comparison with the Fragile 5, which is the kind of analogy I thought he
29:57was trying to invoke, that's a bit laughable, you know.
30:00That's not the situation today, given, you know, I mean, at that time, our growth was faltering.
30:06Inflation was double-digit.
30:07Current account deficit was about 3% to 4%.
30:10So, there is no comparison between that situation and today's situation.
30:14I think we need to be, you know, even-handed about reading the tea leaves of the data.
30:25Let me leave it there, Dr. Panagri.
30:27Always good to talk to you.
30:29You've presented a more optimistic picture of what lies ahead.
30:33We'll wait and see which of these various scenarios materialize as we speak to different leading economists.
30:41Thank you so much for joining me on the show today.
30:44Thank you, Rajdeep.
30:46My pleasure.
30:48Okay, let's turn from there to our special focus tonight.
30:51First, it was the neat mess.
30:53Now, it is the chaos surrounding the CBSE Class 12 results.
30:58After the deadline for re-evaluation ended on Monday, several applicants have come out claiming that the answer sheet shared
31:06with them by the CBSE don't match theirs.
31:10One of them, who went public on social media, was trolled heavily.
31:15Some even called the child Vedant Srivastava a Pakistani.
31:21Finally, Vedant was proven to be right.
31:25And the CBSE board has admitted its mistake.
31:29Is this only the tip of the iceberg and another evaluation mess?
31:33Let's take a look.
31:52For lakhs of Class 12 students, the stress did not end with board exams.
31:58It exploded after the results.
32:02This year, the CBSE shifted to a new on-screen marking system.
32:081.7 million students.
32:1010 million answer sheets.
32:12All scanned and evaluated digitally.
32:15The CBSE claimed the system would be faster, transparent, accurate.
32:22But students claimed the exact opposite.
32:25Some alleged they received somebody else's answer sheet.
32:30Class 12 students, Vedant and Sanjana, took to social media claiming the answer sheets shared by the CBSE were not
32:38theirs.
32:42Vedant faced massive online trolling and was even labelled a Pakistani.
32:49After outrage erupted online, CBSE acknowledged the issue on May 25th, uploaded the correct answer sheet, and issued revised marks.
32:59We saw our results.
33:01We saw our results.
33:01There were some subjects in which the 90% went above, but in the rest of the 80% of
33:05our marks.
33:05Some of us had a lot of people in the marks.
33:07Some of us had a lot of results.
33:10Some of us had a lot of results.
33:11Some of us had 75% of the criteria.
33:12Some of us had a lot of results.
33:13Some of us had a lot of results.
33:14And we saw that OSM checking, which was newly introduced by the CBSE, and it started to come to that.
33:21That was a lot of results.
33:21Maybe it was a big gap created for all the children's marks.
33:46There is more.
33:48The revaluation portal crashed repeatedly before the deadline ended on Monday.
33:54Payments kept failing.
34:02Scanned copies arrived blurry and unreadable.
34:08The crisis became so severe that Education Minister Dharmendra Pradhan confirmed IIT Madras and IIT Kanpur had been called in
34:16to fix technical glitches.
34:19IIT Kanpur and IIT Chennai, IIT Madras will look into the technical glitches faced by CBSE portal.
34:31But today it is functioning smoothly.
34:34Those who are applied for the revaluation, they will get a scan copy.
34:41Even evaluators are now raising questions.
34:45Veteran physics teacher G.K. Shivastav, who checked answer sheets this year, claims the system was rolled out in haste.
34:55CBC has done this system very quickly.
35:01At least for 6-7 months.
35:05Then the applicants, the students who have given exams, had their expectations of their marks.
35:10They have had their expectations of their marks.
35:11Because in checking, the first step-marking happened.
35:14They were manually checked.
35:15So in step-marking, they would get their marks.
35:17But after checking, there were many problems.
35:21For lakhs of students, this isn't just a technical glitch.
35:27It's anxiety, uncertainty and a fight for the marks they believe they earned.
35:35With Anmol Bali, Bureau Report, India Today.
35:40Okay, let's raise the big question on our talking point then today.
35:44Did the CBSE push online evaluation history this time?
35:48Why wasn't the software tested properly?
35:51How big is the CBSE re-evaluation crisis?
35:55Is this the next NEET-like crisis in a different sense?
35:58Can justice be done to the affected students?
36:01Joining me now, Dr. Sudha Acharya, Principal International Public School joins me.
36:06CB Sharma Educationist, Professor Anita Rampal, Professor and former Dean Faculty of Education, Delhi University.
36:12And Ibrahim Khan, he's a CBSE student, Saranpur.
36:16I want to come to you, Ibrahim, first.
36:17You've seen the case of Vedan Srivastav, who claims that he received the wrong copy of his answer sheet through
36:25the CBSE re-evaluation process.
36:29Are you worried about the way the evaluation, the way the markings have been done?
36:33Will you also, did you also plan to send your paper for re-evaluation?
36:39Yes, sir. I've been very worried about this re-evaluation and the first evaluation in itself.
36:45Because many of my friends in my circle have also faced similar issues where they were given marks they did
36:51not deserve.
36:52They should have been given more marks.
36:58So, you're worried about the way the marking system was done.
37:02What are you planning to do about it?
37:05Vedant went public, went on social media and pointed out there were errors in the way the re-evaluation was
37:12done.
37:12What are you planning to do?
37:15I'm planning to reconsider and give my copy for re-checking, just like many of my friends have done.
37:21And bringing this on social media does not help at all because CBSE is good at handling such minor incidences
37:28and people who raise their voices against them.
37:34You know, you're saying many of your friends, therefore, am I correct, are also planning to still send their papers
37:41for re-evaluation even though the deadline is expiring tonight.
37:46Yes, sir. They are also considering this because this is such a serious issue and their marks do matter in
37:52life.
37:52And especially class 12 is such an important grade in life and they should have given what they deserved.
38:02And is there a particular paper where you had a problem or all your marking or all the papers were
38:07problematic? Is there a particular subject paper?
38:12The most disappointing thing is that the most good subject I'm in is English and I have never gotten below
38:1980 percent.
38:20But this time I got 71 in English and that is such a big disappointment.
38:24Apart from subjects like science, physics, chemistry, biology, those are acceptable if I get lower marks than I have done.
38:32But English, that's such a major disappointment and definitely an error.
38:40Let me therefore bring in my guests on that point. Dr. Sudha Acharya, do you believe something's gone wrong with
38:46the marking system that so many students are slowly coming up and saying that they did not get the marks
38:51they deserve?
38:52Do you believe there is something inherently wrong with this new online script monitoring system, the answer sheet that was
38:59uploaded by CBSE after allegations of evaluation errors and unexpected marks?
39:06Is there something wrong with the system or are these exceptional cases like that of a Vedan Srivastava?
39:11No, these are not exceptional at all.
39:14No, these are not exceptional at all.
39:14CBSE has taken a massive step to digitize the whole examination ecosystem and 98 lakh answer scripts were scanned.
39:24So such a massive step were taken so hurriedly.
39:28I mean, I am involved right from the first day.
39:31Dry testing to chief nodal supervisor and evaluation taking place in my school, ITIL public school for 19 subjects.
39:40So we have seen in the beginning, it started very well.
39:44Then we started getting blood paper and evaluators were having a hard time checking them.
39:51So we rejected, we sent them back to CBSE.
39:55So at the highest policy decision making agency, whoever are taking decision, I would request them have some empathy for
40:02children.
40:03Please take decision as per children's career, professional course, admission and their mental distress.
40:11We are all the time talking about mental health and mental stress.
40:15We have simply increased their mental health and distress, nothing else.
40:21And from evaluators point of view.
40:23You know, CB Sharma, a full online script monitoring system.
40:31Do you believe it was used inconsistently?
40:34I am repeating the question.
40:35Is Vedan Srivastava's case an exception or has something once again fundamentally gone wrong with the haste with which this
40:44system has been brought in?
40:46Was there a hybrid system where manual methods were also used or do you believe something's gone wrong fundamentally with
40:53the system?
40:54Could be an exception.
40:57It is utterly wrong to say that CBSE has introduced it in a hurry.
41:06I am aware that CBSE introduced or started experimenting with it right in 2014.
41:15And since then they have tried at the technology.
41:18In fact, this technology came into the evaluation system much, much before the CBSE introduced.
41:24In fact, Odisha School Board introduced much before CBSE.
41:28A number of universities did it.
41:30I am aware of the technology.
41:32This technology works very well.
41:34I am surprised how this is happening.
41:37I wanted to dig into it and I did some research about it.
41:42The CBSE is very, very careful about some pages not being scanned, sent to the evaluator.
41:49It cannot go.
41:50The technology stops it.
41:52I am completely surprised how this has happened.
41:56This should not happen.
41:57And absolutely, there is absolutely no excuse that this has happened in one case or some cases.
42:05There has to be zero tolerance.
42:07Every life matters.
42:09Every child matters for us.
42:11And even if there is 0.0001% error, then I believe the CBSE has to be in dock.
42:18Sometimes what happens is that you have to do it at many places and they are not able to monitor.
42:24But the CBSE must have taken full care that this doesn't happen even in one case.
42:32If this has happened, I believe, in spite of the fact that I trust this technology, I have tried this
42:38technology,
42:39I would say CBSE has to answer if there are five students who complain that their copies or their answer
42:50sheets are not evaluated or left unanswered.
42:57You know, Professor Anita Rampal, the same question is coming up again and again.
43:04Is it about scale as we saw with NEET also?
43:06The sheer scale of an exam, CBSE even a larger scale, the sheer scale of the exam is making it
43:13more and more difficult to have an error-proof exam.
43:16Is something fundamentally wrong with the evaluation process?
43:20I think this is a misguided decision to get it done digitally.
43:26I mean, I think we are completely forgetting the human process of what it means, the cognitive process of what
43:32it means to be reading a mark sheet, reading an answer sheet.
43:36How do you process it?
43:38How do you flip back and flip forth and then take a decision?
43:42I think this is completely misguided.
43:44I've spoken to teachers who have done this, some of our best teachers, I mean our best former students who
43:49are now teachers with very good experience and they are quite devastated.
43:54They said that we cannot be marking like that. It's not just a matter of fatigue. It's also how your
43:59brain processes it.
44:01It's not a linear process that you scroll down and you scroll down. We often go back, we look at
44:06the same students' different answers when we take decisions.
44:10So this should not be done. They are saying that this could not be a fair assessment even though they
44:16are some of our best teachers.
44:18And secondly, they said that normally you talk…
44:22So are you saying that the online… Are you saying the online script… Are you saying the online script monitoring
44:28system should be replaced by a manual method? Is that the better way?
44:32Yes. Yes. Absolutely better way. We cannot be replacing human agency and cognitive processes which are meant to be done
44:41in a certain way by something which is completely mindless.
44:44You don't scroll an answer sheet and then mark it in a linear manner. And then people are, you know,
44:51people are conscious because they feel they are being monitored. The camera is there.
44:55If someone took longer, they said they got a phone call. They got a phone call in the centre. Why
45:00is this person taking so long on this question?
45:03This is… We are not robots and we shouldn't be marking, making humans into robots.
45:11You know, it is so unfair on the teachers… You know, Professor Sharma, you were shaking your head when…
45:18You are saying, ma'am, it's unfair on the teacher, it's unfair on the student… Yes. Yes.
45:21…but Professor Sharma, you have a different viewpoint. You seem to believe that the technology is robust.
45:27This is a completely different viewpoint. I have said, I have tested this technology, I have seen it working. Look,
45:35we have millions of transcripts to be evaluated. And for a fair assessment, we have to send our transcripts to
45:43far off places.
45:44The copies from Bhopal have to go to Tiruchirapalli to be evaluated. Now, transporting them also causes so many difficulties.
45:54Technology has worked very well.
45:56If there are mistakes, I would say, yes, CBS will have to answer. But then, the technology works. I have
46:02seen it. Look…
46:04No, but you can't have a… You know, the technology may… Sir, the technology works, but you cannot have… You
46:09cannot have papers being swapped in the manner that they were in Vedant's case.
46:13And the way he was attacked… I mean, he had to eventually go on to social media in a way
46:18to raise his concerns. And that also raises the view.
46:20How many parents, students can be able to do that, are willing to take that chance? You've heard from another
46:26student. He and his friends all want re-evaluation.
46:29Professor Rampal, is this about technology versus manual methods or something more fundamental, as I said about the scale of
46:36the exam, that requires a very different evaluation system?
46:40It is about assessment. It is about human decision-making. It is humans who are reading answers and deciding and
46:48giving assessment. It is not technology. So you cannot be pushing technology and even then de-escalating.
46:55I mean, you're actually impacting the efficiency and the judgment and the discretion of human beings. And this is what
47:03I've been talking today the whole day with teachers who do this.
47:07And who say they cannot? I mean, they said they're not happy and they don't think that they're being forced
47:11into a fair system of assessment, which normally they would do it in a different way.
47:18No, no, no. I completely disagree.
47:21Dr. Acharya, where do you stand? Dr. Acharya, one minute, one minute.
47:26See, right from day one…
47:28I've heard both of you…
47:29Yeah, when the dry testing was done for two days in six schools and I was one of the observers,
47:37so we found out a lot of glitches and it was not user-friendly at the beginning.
47:42So we gave our observation report to CBSE and accordingly the agency also improvised.
47:48But when we were talking to CBSE people, we were thinking that in the beginning they will test it on
47:56a non-academic subject, on a minor subject like painting or music or physical education to see whether the technology
48:03is working or not.
48:04But after nine or ten days, we came to know that everything is tested on all the papers in whole
48:10class 12.
48:11That was really surprising because our evaluators neither are oriented, nor are given training, nor are given practice.
48:19Even I would say from the point of view of students, they never knew that their paper will be checked
48:24online.
48:26Because there are certain instructions which need to be given to the students if they know that their online checking
48:32is happening.
48:36You know, I want to ask you, Abraham, you're listening to all these views.
48:40Are you confident of the way the system is being evaluated or do you fear the worst?
48:46Are you and your friends feeling that something has gone wrong?
48:55Well, I have given up all my hope on CBSE and as I am done with class 12 examinations, I
49:00hope to never encounter such an agency as CBSE.
49:02The disappointment in this is such major that I cannot comprehend it well.
49:07And like Sir said that this technology has been in experimentation for several years, yet we still face these issues
49:13of copy swapping and incorrect marking.
49:16And this is such an unacceptable move from the CBSE as a whole.
49:21And even though the technology has been in several experimentation, we have still failed to provide a proper marking and
49:29deserved marking to students who have been working hard all their lives and preparing for such a big examination of
49:35class 12.
49:36And yet have faced these issues.
49:41I'm going to leave it there.
49:42At the end of the day, we have to listen to voices of students.
49:45We've got to listen to voices of stakeholders.
49:47There are different viewpoints on how the technology can be used.
49:50But let's not believe that one system is foolproof.
49:54I think what Vedan's case has shown is that no system is fully foolproof and we need greater attention paid
50:02to detail.
50:02Don't hurry with any system.
50:05Find ways in which you can restore confidence in parents, in teachers and most importantly in students.
50:13I appreciate my guests joining me on my talking point this evening.
50:20Okay, let's end tonight's show with our image of the day and it's a interesting image because a unique wedding
50:27story from Nanded in Maharashtra on the occasion of the wedding of Siddeshwar and Manjusha.
50:34The groom's brother, Anup Petkar, did something fascinating.
50:40He gifted one lakh rupees insurance to around 3500 guests who were attending the wedding ceremony.
50:49Quite a unique return gift, you might say.
50:53Well, that's it on the show today.
50:56Thanks very much for watching.
50:58Stay well.
50:59Stay safe.
51:01Good night.
51:01Shubratri.
51:02Jai Hind.
51:03Namaskar.
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