- 14 hours ago
A political row has erupted in West Bengal after the Suvendu Adhikari-led government made the recitation of Vande Mataram compulsory in madrasas and schools.
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00:05good evening you're watching news track with me maria shakil we are starting with some piece of
00:10breaking news which is coming in now the meeting which was chaired by the prime minister the
00:15council of ministers meeting has just come to an end it lasted for four and a half hours sources
00:21tell india today that this meeting was a midterm review of the government's performance
00:29various ministers presented their report card and you know basically the functioning of various
00:37ministries key decisions that have been taken in recent months their outcomes and also future plans
00:43were discussed remember the modi government 3.0 completes two years in office on 9th of june the
00:50review focused on implementation and progress of major government schemes and infrastructure projects
00:56with emphasis on delivery execution and coordination across ministries ministries were earlier asked to
01:03classify reforms under four categories which was legislative statutory rules changes and also policy
01:10and administrative the prime minister made an assessment about the performance of each and
01:17every ministry and he has also referred to the ongoing west asia crisis and its impact on the economic
01:25uh situation in the country and uh has directed ministries to take steps to ensure minimum inconvenience to citizens and
01:34sectors like energy agriculture fertilizers aviation shipping and logistics
01:39uh were particularly discussed and a high-powered informal group of ministers led by defense minister rajnath singh
01:47uh remember is already monitoring this crisis rajnath singh however was not there to attend the meeting as he is
01:54in south korea
01:55and uh health minister jp nadda is in geneva manjeet negi is joining me live so manjeet what are the
02:02big takeaways of this meeting four and a half hours
02:05that's pretty long a meeting uh that's how it lasted i mean certainly huge concerns here
02:20manjeet if you heard me manjeet if you heard me manjeet if you can listen to me
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05:47shaitra par hain. Lekin uske ba-wujud agar haap dekhain agar this puray meeting ke sequence ko
05:52dekhain sadeh 4 ghante meeting chalne ka seedha matlab yeh hai ke Pradaamatrin ne baut vistar se
05:58mantriyon ka jo karakar hai uska jaiza liya or saath hi jo mojuda sankat hai uspar bhi charcha ki.
06:04Chalye manjeet, shukriya humare sa jundne ke liye. Shifting focus to our topic of discussion on
06:09news track tonight. After schools, Vande Mataram has now been made compulsory in Madarsas in West
06:15Bengal, triggering a fresh political and ideological debate. The Shubhendu Adhikari-led
06:20government and the BJP have defended the move, calling it an effort to promote unity and national
06:27pride. The opposition, however, has questioned the intent behind the directive terming it
06:32an imposition and raising concerns over its implementation. Muslim clerics have also
06:37registered their objections for the intensifying this row. The larger question now is should such
06:44national recitations be made mandatory across all educational institutions and can this be
06:52separated from religious or identity-based interpretations? Before I bring in the guests,
06:59here's a report.
07:02A political and cultural flashpoint in West Bengal. One song, one directive.
07:15And a widening controversy over the mandatory recitation of Vande Mataram in schools and Madarsas.
07:22What began as a government order has now escalated into a broader debate over national symbols,
07:28identity and their place in education.
07:36The Suvendu government is defending the move as an effort to promote unity and national pride.
07:43The Congress had changed in 1937. If the Congress had changed in 1937, it would not have changed in 1937.
07:52However, the decision has drawn sharp criticism from opposition leaders who now question the move and its implementation.
08:00Opposition leaders argue that while national symbols are important,
08:04making them compulsory raises questions about intent and inclusion.
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08:48Meanwhile, schools across West Bengal have already begun implementing the directive.
09:00With recitations underway in several institutions.
09:06The issue has now turned into a full-blown political flashpoint in the state.
09:11With sharp divisions over whether such recitations should be made mandatory across all educational institutions.
09:24The larger question remains, should expressions of national identity be compulsory or voluntary?
09:31With Indrajit Kundu, Aastabhar Dwaj, India Today.
10:00Thank you, Professor Mandel. What exactly are the concerns if Madarsas also have national song compulsory?
10:11Historically speaking, there is a history behind the song being appropriated as a national song.
10:17It was first sung in 1896 in a Congress session.
10:23Incidentally, that particular session was presided over by a Muslim president of the Congress by the name of Rahimatullah M.
10:30Shahini.
10:31And within 10 years, I think this song created a kind of contention, especially among the Muslim leaders after the
10:39partition of England.
10:40And that also started with the beginning of Muslim League in 1906.
10:45Thirty years down the line in 1937, it snowballed into a very big controversy because now Muhammad Ali Jinnah, along
10:53with his party, vehemently objected to singing of three stanzas.
10:58Mind you, not the entire stanzas. Only three stanzas in between the stanzas, that is fourth, fifth, third, fourth and
11:06fifth.
11:07They had no objection singing the other stanzas. And in 1937, because of a committee which was considered a very
11:15iridescent...
11:15Professor Mandela, I know the history and the controversy around it. My question is, in today's Bengal, what is the
11:21objection?
11:23We don't have to go back in history and look at pre-independence debates and discussions around it.
11:29In independent India, when we are looking at 100 years, why shouldn't it be part of madarsas and every educational
11:37institution across the country?
11:38There has never been an objection in singing Bandemataram. The problem was they are singing it in entirety. That's why
11:47you need to know the history.
11:49Bandemataram has been sung in, as I mentioned, from 1896 onwards, irrespective of your religion.
11:55There could be some problems here and there, but organizationally there was no problem at all in singing it.
12:01The problem is there with the three stanzas, whereby the Muslim believes that it was actually dedicated to the goddess
12:08Durga.
12:09That there lies the problem. Otherwise, Bandemataram has been sung there. This has been politicized only very recently in the
12:15last few years only.
12:17Otherwise, there is no problem in singing Bandemataram by any one of us.
12:21I think, Zeenat Shawkat Ali, you should come into this discussion because, you know, increasingly we are seeing that even
12:30the minority community may not object to it,
12:32but it is the political parties who object to it and make it about a talking point which leads to
12:40polarization and puts minorities on some kind of patriotism test.
12:48Thank you for inviting me to the show. I think, I think you're quite right.
12:52You see, it's when politics comes into this kind of a debate and upsetting, you know, it upsets the natural
12:59equilibrium.
13:00The song was used as a, you know, as one of the greatest cries for our freedom struggle in the
13:09past.
13:10As we all know, I'm not getting into that, but at the present moment, I need always, there were always
13:16discussions on it.
13:18You know, the assembly discussed it because there were the first two verses which were acceptable and the next two
13:25verses which contained, you know, symbols of other of the Hindu religion.
13:30You know, they said that it was better that we use only the first two verses and there were debates
13:36on that.
13:37There were, you know, the people talked about it and there was no doubt to it and there was no
13:42controversy that it was a wonderful song and it had to be the song of India.
13:48So, and it was as valuable to us as Vande Ma, as Jana Jana Mana.
13:53So, I think this entire debate, even if we talk about it, even if we discuss whether we should use
14:01only the first two verses or the rest, why should it not go into the madrasas?
14:06Even if we use the first two verses, there is a school system, you know, which uses, you know, anthems
14:15by itself, the Indian national anthem.
14:20So, why shouldn't, you know, the madrasas are also schools?
14:24Why should they not be used?
14:25Yeah, these are educational institutions.
14:27Madrasas are educational institutions.
14:30It should be seen from that prism.
14:32So, Rashid Kidwai.
14:34That's right.
14:34Rashid Kidwai, do you think that this debate is almost like an engineered debate?
14:40Because it is leading to polarization and perhaps even the students who are supposed, who will be okay with the
14:48idea of, you know, singing the national song.
14:51They are being made a subject of unnecessary attention here.
14:56Absolutely.
14:57So, Maria, this whole issue is extremely political and polarized.
15:01There is an attempt, as you are rightly saying, to provoke and, you know, the other side is equally wrong
15:06in getting, you know, provoked.
15:08A national anthem and national song, the debate has been settled.
15:12Now, whether you, you know, read or sing, you know, two stanzas or three stanzas or six stanzas is immeditated
15:18and inconsequential.
15:20There are two things that I must mention.
15:24Having studied, you know, the functioning of Madarsas, Madarsas are in dire need of reforms, modernization.
15:32A curriculum changes.
15:33The 17th century, 18th century curriculum is there.
15:35And there is a need for teachers, computers, all these things, where government is privy to it and government needs
15:41to step in.
15:42And particularly in Bengal, because there is a, you know, you know, you know, Kidwai report written by Dr. A
15:47.R. Kidwai, who was a former governor of Bengal.
15:49And he has made a lot of very useful recommendations about having a, you know, a national curriculum of Madarsas,
15:57universal, uniform curriculum all over the country.
16:00These things are not being attended to, unfortunately.
16:03And, you know, attempt is there to, as you are saying, you know, attempt is to polarize on political and
16:09religious times.
16:10Second thing, Maria, you see, for any directive, it should be universally applicable.
16:15Here, what the government is saying, that the government-aided Madarsas need to adhere to it with a private Madarsa
16:21or a private Christian missionary school.
16:24Then this is just a request.
16:25Now, why is it so?
16:26It should be mandatory for all of them.
16:28Just like I say, the cow slaughter should be banned all over India.
16:32Muslim organizations have been saying it, demanding it.
16:34But why should it be that in some states permitted, some states not permitted?
16:38So, I, you know, I see it that there is an overt politicization of these sensitive issues to reap some
16:43kind of political dividend.
16:44Okay.
16:45So, you are essentially, R.P. Singh, trying to polarize the society by coming up with these kind of mandates.
16:55Well, Maria, good evening.
16:57And I was trying to find out the objectionable part.
17:04And what does it mean?
17:06It means, it is interpreted as personifying the strength and protection and resilience of nation itself.
17:12Well, why is this objection to this?
17:17And when you go to Pakistan, you say Madurai Vatan.
17:20Well, people say that there is a commonly used phrase there called Madurai Vatan.
17:24And what does Madurai Vatan mean?
17:25Doesn't it mean Vande Matram?
17:26And this is a map of Turkey with me.
17:29I am just showing it to you viewers.
17:31It has a mother there.
17:32And it is called as Annai Vatan.
17:35Annai Vatan.
17:36So, Muslim country has no problem with us talking about murder as such.
17:45And if you have to follow Islam so thoroughly.
17:48I mean, you have to be so pakka with Islam.
17:51Then, why you take bank loan?
17:53I was going through the data today.
17:54There is almost 11% of people who have taken Muslim loan.
17:59Interest is haram in Islam.
18:01Paying interest or taking money on interest or using money on interest.
18:05No, no.
18:05I am not getting into all these points here.
18:09Give me a second.
18:09No, no, no.
18:10R.P. Singh.
18:11Let's get to the point that has been made here.
18:14Zinas Shokat Ali, me and Rashid.
18:17We are all from the minority community and we are of the opinion.
18:21Even I am from a minority.
18:22No, no.
18:23Yes, please.
18:24You are also a minority.
18:25I am the real minority among you.
18:27Yes, sir.
18:28I am the real minority among you.
18:29Three out of one.
18:29Yes, yes.
18:30So, what we are of the opinion that when it is about Madarsas,
18:35similar educational standards and similar educational mandates should be extended
18:41and national song should be sung.
18:44I am not too sure that even students will have any objection.
18:49I mean, even the students would agree because this will essentially be about integration with the larger ethos of India.
18:55Yes, that is integration with the larger ethos of India.
18:59Then why bring this angle about interest and all in this conversation here, R.P. Singh?
19:04No, no, no.
19:06What I am saying is, the people have problems with Maa Durga and Maa Lakshmi.
19:10I mean, that is what I am saying.
19:12I mean, Bhoshara, for so many years, the prayer has been connected.
19:17As for Islamic rights and as for Hindu rights.
19:19But there were murals and scriptures of Hinduism there.
19:24And then still they will go down in front of those scriptures only and murals only.
19:28What I am saying is, it is all political.
19:30It is all political.
19:31It is all political.
19:32It is just because certain political class thinks that they can use this as a tool to engineer the mindset
19:42of division in the country.
19:45Okay.
19:47Manujit Mandal, respond to that.
19:48Again, I repeat, Bariya, I do not know whether any persons or a group of persons in Bengal
19:57have any objection to singing this song.
19:59I have not seen any such movements even now or before when there was no BJP government.
20:05It is just a needless controversy created by the interested party, unfortunately by BJP, since the last few years only.
20:14As I repeat, the Bandha Mataram has been there for over 130 years.
20:22Nobody had any objection to that.
20:24Even Bharat Bhagga Vidhata, the Janaga.
20:28So you are manufacturing a controversy, RPC, where none exist in Bengal.
20:33Bharat Bhagga Vidhata.
20:34Are we raising objection to it?
20:37People who are manufacturing it are people who are raising objection to it.
20:41We are saying it is a new law.
20:45Mr. Singh, Narn has any objection to singing this by calling Bandha Mataram.
20:52Tell your friends in Congress party, tell your friends in Kunal Ghosha.
20:57No, no.
20:58Problem, problem cropped up when he took it out of context to make it political.
21:03When it comes to singing for the motherland, nobody had any objection.
21:08Tell this to Kunal Ghosha.
21:10Then there lies a problem, religion and politics together.
21:14Because for us, even for Bankim Chandra, the goddess Durga represented the country, the motherland.
21:22He conceived of the motherland as the goddess Durga or like me.
21:26There was no religion into it.
21:28It was appropriated.
21:29No, not at all.
21:30I said otherwise.
21:31I said otherwise.
21:32My opening statement was otherwise.
21:34There was no religion into it.
21:36It was only about motherland because people of our country in the 1880s needed this kind of inspirational song.
21:44Okay.
21:44And look at it.
21:45It became almost a revolutionary war cry.
21:47Okay.
21:47People went to the gallows.
21:48Let R.P. Singh respond to that now.
21:50Manajit.
21:52Manajit.
21:52Manajit.
21:52People went to the gallows.
21:54You don't think about religion.
21:55Let R.P. Singh respond.
21:56Yes.
21:57Manajit, whatever Manajit Mandela said, every point, it's not us who are raising the question.
22:02His people, his friend Kunal Ghosh, who is saying it will disrupt the social fabric.
22:07How do one day Martam disrupt the social fabric?
22:09Okay.
22:10I have enough time for Zenith Shaukat Ali and Rashid Kidwai.
22:13Rashid, beginning with you and then last word to the woman on the panel.
22:17Rashid.
22:18Maria, as it's evident, it's actually, you know, a manufactured kind of narrative that is sought to be built to
22:26authorize a particular religious minority.
22:29As Mr. R.P. Singh is saying about banking and interest, etc.
22:34You see, every Indian, you know, has a banking system, has a bank account, and is part or parcel of
22:41it.
22:41If we pick up, you know, the interest issue, we are trying to authorize, whereas everybody is part of it
22:47and has been co-opted.
22:48That's the case with national song and national anthem also.
22:52Simple thing, if you have a law, you apply uniformly, universally to all communities.
22:58And second thing, modernize madarsas, for heaven's sake.
23:02Yes.
23:03Modernize madarsas.
23:04I agree with you.
23:05That they are not doing.
23:07Modernize madarsas and introduce the same education parameters and same syllabus.
23:14No, same syllabus as it is in other states.
23:19And yes, please go ahead, Zina Shokatali.
23:22Yes.
23:22I think that is extremely important that, you know, the madarsas themselves must be modernized.
23:28The word madarsas is an educational institution.
23:31It's a university.
23:32That's the meaning of the word.
23:34You know, the maktab was the school and madarsas is the university.
23:37So we have to follow the university curriculum and teach every kind of, you know, the sciences, the arts, whatever,
23:46that every other school and colleges follow.
23:48The madarsas should also follow so that the imams who come out of those madarsas or who graduate from there,
23:55you know, not only get enlightened, but also can get jobs for themselves.
24:01And I should like to say that as far as the national song is concerned, it has always invoked a
24:07kind of a question of a national pride and honoring the nation.
24:13Yes.
24:14The idea was to honor the nation.
24:16And it's a pride that we have.
24:19And we don't have to make a controversy, sirs and madam, out of this.
24:23What we have to do is sit down and see how we can implement this in good terms so that
24:31it will become acceptable universally to everyone.
24:35As you have pointed out that in Turkey, you know, it has been sung.
24:39So, you know, these miscomprehensions and misunderstandings, for example, I was asked at one time, what was the objection to
24:48one day?
24:49Now, you know, one day is not only worship.
24:52It means praise.
24:53It means adoration.
24:54It means love for the country.
24:56So we have to understand things in context and not blow it out of proportion.
25:01Yes, absolutely.
25:02I agree with you.
25:05Thank you for joining me and making those points.
25:07Rashid Kidwai and Professor Manujit Mandal, RPC, really appreciate your time.
25:11Thank you for joining us on this conversation.
25:13Another state, but the same flashpoint.
25:16One song before another.
25:18And Tamil Nadu's politics is on fire again.
25:21What should have been a routine cabinet expansion for Chief Minister Vijay has now snowballed into a fierce battle over
25:28protocol.
25:29Tamil identity and political symbolism.
25:32Take a look at this report.
25:33I'm leaving you with that.
25:34Thanks so much for watching.
25:35And I'll be seeing you tomorrow.
25:57One national song, one state anthem, but in Tamil Nadu, the order of songs has now turned into a full
26:03blown political storm.
26:09Protocol versus pride.
26:11North versus Tamil identity.
26:13And once again, Chief Minister Vijay finds himself at the center of the controversy.
26:20Even as Vijay expanded his cabinet to 23 ministers, the spotlight quickly shifted from power politics to a battle over
26:27Tamil pride.
26:29When the national song played out before the Tamil anthem, the DMK launched a blistering attack on the state government.
26:37Questioning whether this was the change promised to the people, accusing the Vijay government of sidelining Tamil rights and identity.
26:44DMK further alleged that the TVK had ignored the long standing priority for Tamil anthem protocol and had bowed before
26:51the governor instead of standing its ground.
26:54This government is going to function.
26:56This is going to be the style of functioning of this government.
27:00And now, Tamil Nadu has gone to the third place.
27:04In the days to come, Tamil Nadu was standing first in so many aspects.
27:09I am afraid, like Tamil Nadu, these developments also may face the same consequences.
27:19But in a twist, TVK allies CPIM has backed Vijay.
27:23With the party's speech on Mungam defending the chief minister.
27:54Yet, the same CPIM after Vijay's oath ceremony had questioned why the Tamil anthem was played third after one day
28:01matram and the national anthem.
28:03The Congress too, citing protocol, defended its ally the TVK.
28:08After nearly 60 years, the Congress party has a minister.
28:14Not only for the Congress party, this also marks a shift in the politics of Tamil Nadu.
28:19Tamil Nadu is ready for coalition government and it will continue to have coalition governments going forward.
28:27Tamil Nadu's political debate is now no longer just about a ceremony.
28:32It's about symbolism, identity and a question growing louder with every controversy.
28:38Who decides the order of pride in Tamil Nadu?
28:41Vira Report, India Today.
28:43Vira Report, India.
28:47Not only force, the
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