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00:00In this episode...
00:01I have to say from the start, one of my favourite weapons.
00:05It was the first assault rifle, before the Kalashnikov, before everything.
00:10It was absolutely revolutionary.
00:13We have got an absolute peach of a weapon coming out here.
00:17Super, super rare.
00:19There's probably only three or four of these in existence.
00:24Couldn't help.
00:24I am going to be biased.
00:26I mean, you've got classic, iconic and then you've just got the professional.
00:30And that's this one for me.
00:36Hello everyone and welcome to Battle Treasures.
00:39I'm Jason Fox and with me is someone who could probably kit out an entire division from his own garage.
00:46Mr Bruce Crompton.
00:47Thanks Jason, but remember I've always got room for more.
00:52Potentially those wonderful objects that tell about the stories from the real battlefield.
00:58Now Ed, what have you got for us today?
01:00So this episode is going to be called Iconic Assault Rifles.
01:06Let's get on with it.
01:07Freddie, would you mind going to Bruce's safe, cracking it open and getting the first gun out?
01:13So it's deactivated. There's no rounds in the magazine and no rounds in the chamber.
01:18Thank you very much.
01:18I have to say from the start, one of my favourite weapons.
01:22Is it the oldest assault rifle?
01:24It was the first assault rifle before the Kalashnikov, before everything.
01:28This is called an STG 44 or Stumgewehr, which means assault rifle 44.
01:35Or more commonly known as the MP 44 machine pistol.
01:39Designed by the Germans, designed by Schmeiser.
01:43This actually came into production.
01:45The design started in late 41, 42 and then you had the MP 43.
01:51But this was the final version.
01:53And what's unique about this, this was a fully and semi-automatic assault rifle.
01:58It was absolutely revolutionary.
02:01This is the game changer.
02:02Absolutely.
02:03And the reason was, infantry, platoon companies were all carrying rifles, bolt action rifles.
02:10And it's essentially hybrid of a rifle and a submachine gun.
02:16Absolutely.
02:16So look, I've got a picture here of a German.
02:19Now, in our research, Bruce, and I don't know whether this is correct or not,
02:24but there is a theory that if the STG 44 had come earlier in the war,
02:29that it could have tipped the balance in the favour of the Germans.
02:33Okay, you're absolutely right to a certain degree,
02:35but you've got to remember the Russians had a lot of semi-automatic weapons
02:39that the Germans didn't have.
02:40And this was predominantly produced to fight on the Eastern Front.
02:44Although it fought everywhere, it was mass-produced
02:47and quickly sent it out to the Eastern Front.
02:49And in all fairness, a year earlier, a year or two earlier, it could have made a big difference.
02:55It is a very heavy assault rifle.
02:58And just, I think it's worth pointing out, Bruce and Ed, that we should explain the characteristics of an assault
03:05rifle.
03:06Yeah.
03:07Because ultimately, it's got the ability to shoot at different cyclic rates.
03:12So you'll have a change lever on here, which will change it from single shot, where it acts as a
03:18rifle,
03:19to basically automatic or burst, which means it will fire a lot of rounds in a single burst, like a
03:28submachine gun.
03:29So you've got the weight, you've got the ability to have a weight of fire, but you've also got the
03:33ability to have accurate fire.
03:34The design of that gun, actually, although it's quite interesting, Jason, you're saying it's quite heavy,
03:40it was also meant that kids could use it quite easily.
03:44And so in the last days of the Reich, when they were battling tooth and nail to try and keep
03:50the Allies out,
03:51you had a lot of children, soldiers, who were able to use that.
03:54The thing I take from that photograph is he has got this weapon system slung round his neck.
04:00Not his shoulder, it's round his neck.
04:02And although you said, Ed, that it can be used by kids, I'd love to see a kid sling this
04:07round his neck,
04:08because it's one of the heaviest assault rifles probably in the history of man.
04:13Nowadays, weapon systems, you know, the lighter they are, the better.
04:16They can be carried further, you can carry more kit, you can carry more ammunition.
04:19But this, in comparison to what's on the market now, is heavy. It's a heavy piece of kit.
04:26Now, what's interesting about this, it is very, very similar to the Kalashnikov.
04:31Now, the Kalashnikov came in 1947.
04:34I've got a map here that shows where it was made in a town called Seul.
04:40Yeah.
04:40So when they were closing in on Berlin, they took that town and the factory and they took the prototypes
04:48and the designs,
04:49which led to the design of the AK.
04:52There's no question about it.
04:53Yeah.
04:53Okay, mate. We've got to the point where we've discussed it. We've talked about what it is.
04:59It is the first assault rifle. How much is this worth?
05:03Okay, if I break it down, first of all, if it was live, it would be what's called a Section
05:075, a prohibited weapon.
05:09Now, there are some people with dealer's licenses and a Section 5 that could have them.
05:14But most people, like this example, is what's called an old specification DEAC.
05:20That gun to buy now would be about £7,000.
05:24Whoa.
05:24A new spec where they're basically welded up solid is approximately half that price.
05:31But that gun is £7,000 as it stands now.
05:34It's interesting. I got it independently valued and the independent value went £9,000.
05:41Wow.
05:42Between £7,000 and £9,000, it's up for debate.
05:45But on a serious note, it is a weapon system.
05:48Yeah.
05:49And if people are going, if you've got a spare £9,000 and you want to go out there and
05:53buy one of these,
05:54it's a serious business to get involved in and actually one that you could get into a lot of trouble.
05:59So what's the process?
06:00What do you have to do if you do want to get hold of something like this?
06:02So obviously, there are reputable dealers that will sell deactivated.
06:06And the key here is the difference between old spec and new spec.
06:10New specification is the European standard, which means they're completely welded up.
06:15The barrels are cut.
06:16The barrels are cut.
06:17You can never reactivate them.
06:19Every weapon that's been deactivated has got a proof master stamp on it.
06:23And it will either be from London or Birmingham.
06:25And it should be clearly seen.
06:27But a word of advice, never buy a deactivated weapon without the certificate.
06:32Because if you get stopped by the police, that is no proof that it's not been engaged or had something
06:38done to it.
06:39You have to have the certificate.
06:41Where can people see weapon systems like this in the public?
06:45Which museums show them?
06:46Okay.
06:47They are in numerous museums up and down the country.
06:49But if you want to go and see one locally, the Royal Green Jackets Museum at Winchester,
06:55the Light Infantry Museum, got wonderful displays down there.
06:58Awesome.
06:59What about this?
07:00They invented this with a curved barrel, so you could shoot it out of a trench.
07:05And it worked.
07:06Hang on.
07:06How did that work?
07:07I've seen.
07:08I've held one.
07:08I've never fired it.
07:10Curved like a banana.
07:11That sounds like they've had you on it.
07:13Have a look.
07:14Now come on, Ed.
07:15This is where we are with you.
07:17MP44 with a curved barrel.
07:19Oh, God.
07:20You know what?
07:21It's so weird.
07:23So, Bruce is right.
07:25It's called a Krummlauf curved barrel.
07:28But it is actually curved 90 degrees to the right.
07:33It means you could fire round corners.
07:35Yep.
07:35You would have loved that, mate.
07:37You don't have to break cover.
07:38Yeah.
07:39Right, Ed.
07:40You've cheered me up nowhere in there.
07:42I'm a happy bunny now.
07:43What's next?
07:44The next one is one of the most rarest weapons you will ever come across.
07:53Coming up, a gun signed by the man who's killed more people than both atomic bombs.
07:59When it goes off, your initial thoughts are to change your pants.
08:03Really?
08:04Because they are so loud.
08:17Welcome back, everyone.
08:19And we were left with one of Ed's cliffhangers.
08:21He had us hanging on every word.
08:24And we want to know what's going on, mate.
08:26Yeah.
08:26Well, okay.
08:27Freddie, let's get on with it.
08:28We have got an absolute peach of a weapon coming out here.
08:33Super, super rare.
08:35In fact, I would go to say there's mainly, probably only three or four of these in existence.
08:43Wouldn't it help?
08:44Yeah.
08:45Again, it's deactivated.
08:46There's no rounds in the magazine, no rounds in the chamber.
08:48Try not to handle the buck, please.
08:51You'll see why in a second.
08:53Okay, so I don't know what you're going on about rare.
08:56This is the AK-47, the most prestigious, successful, well-known assault rifle.
09:05Very common.
09:06There's hundreds of millions of these.
09:09It's an amazing bit of kit.
09:10Although, there is something here that I think potentially does make it a little bit rare.
09:17What we've got here is a squiggle in ink on the butt.
09:21That is the signature of Kalashnikov himself.
09:26That's that.
09:27I know about this weapon, okay?
09:29He signed this.
09:30There's a photograph of him as well with this.
09:32I have that.
09:34There he is.
09:35He's signing it.
09:36So, he's at the Purdy gun range, I think it is, in the early 2000s there.
09:43Is that this weapon?
09:44Yes, that's that weapon.
09:46So, Jason, you are absolutely bang on.
09:48There's over, do you know there's over a hundred million AK-47s that have been made?
09:53It's the world's most mass-produced gun.
09:55But actually, there's hardly any, a mere handful that have been signed by Kalashnikov.
10:03And if you're able to prove the provenance, that's when the value goes off the scale.
10:08Well, you've got the photograph.
10:09That is the provenance.
10:10That's him signing it.
10:11It's a bit wonky, I appreciate, but you're talking about the man.
10:14Again, he's got a very interesting life because as he got older, he started having a bit of a withdrawal
10:20about what he'd invented.
10:22Again, based on what we've just seen, Jason, it's very similar to the Stumgewehr 44.
10:27It's got a completely different firing system.
10:31It's a rotating bolt, et cetera, et cetera.
10:33Different size round, but again, mass-produced in countries everywhere.
10:38China, Russia, Romania, Yugoslavia, everybody made these things.
10:43You must have come across these a lot.
10:45Hundreds.
10:46But the iconic history of this, this thing, as Ed's just said, is in its hundreds, there's millions of them
10:53all around the world.
10:54Over a hundred million, yeah.
10:56I've got a little quote from him where he talks about his regret at inventing the weapon.
11:05He says, the pain in my soul is unbearable.
11:08I keep asking myself, if my rifle took people's lives, am I responsible for their deaths?
11:15So, I think that's quite moving, really.
11:18Very much so.
11:20He's Oppenheimer on steroids.
11:22Absolutely.
11:22Because this thing's killed more than the atomic bomb has.
11:25Oh, yeah.
11:25That's absolutely true.
11:27And so, I think he was filled with regret with it.
11:30But he designed it because he heard so many people complaining about guns not being able to work in the
11:37snow.
11:37Yep.
11:38And the mud.
11:39He was like, let's try and, you know, come up.
11:41He was a, he was an engineer and loved tinkering.
11:45And he was like, I think I could invent a gun that's just like fail safe.
11:49That, honestly, holding this weapon, I know of this weapon, but to actually see, I've never seen it before.
11:55This is an iconic weapon, but to actually be holding a weapon that is signed by Kalashnikov, for me, is
12:03something I'm very proud to be able to do.
12:05What I will say, people may say he might have copied that initial design that the Germans came up with,
12:10but he took it to the next level.
12:12Yeah, yeah.
12:12Because this thing is still used.
12:13There are stories of the Viet Cong during the Vietnam War.
12:16They used to bury these things out in the jungle, come back to them later, dig them up, start using
12:20them straight away.
12:21When it goes off, your initial thoughts are to change your pants.
12:25Really?
12:26Because they are so loud.
12:28Like literally, as soon as you get into a contact with the enemy, and they start firing one of these
12:33things, your heckles go up.
12:35And you, psychologically, they, these things win the firefight initially, psychologically, because they're so intimidating.
12:41It is an intimidating bark.
12:43The thing is...
12:44Incredible weapon, Matt.
12:45But why?
12:46Why was, why was it so popular?
12:49This is a classic example of, it does what it says on the tin.
12:53In terrible terrain, you drop it in the mud, right, because of the way the operation of the gas works,
12:59right, it was reliable.
13:01So when you needed to press that trigger, it worked.
13:05And it was its reliability, and the fact that it could be so simply stripped, buried, as you said earlier,
13:11it was an incredible weapon.
13:13How much do you reckon it would cost?
13:14A scion gun like that, classic off, I'd put that, probably about 13 grand, 13, 14 grand.
13:22Really?
13:23Yeah.
13:23There were a few of them, but about 13, 14 grand.
13:26Don't forget, it's deactivated.
13:28So our independent weapons assessor, he says 12,000 to 15,000.
13:33Bang on the money.
13:34Yeah.
13:35Where can we find these?
13:37Where can we go and see an AK-47?
13:38Again, again, AK-47s, numerous, obviously, they're in a lot of the regimental museums all over the country, but you
13:46can definitely see one down in another museum at Winchester at the Hampshire Museum.
13:51They, I know, that have got them down there, and they've also got them at the Royal Norfolk Museum in
13:56Norwich.
13:57Next item.
13:59Hang on.
13:59So here we go, deactivated, no rounds in the magazine, no rounds in your chain.
14:04Right, what we've got here is something that I'm very familiar with, but this particular one, if I'm not mistaken,
14:12is an M16A2, and what allows it to be an A2 is that it's got an M203 grenade launcher attached
14:22to it, which is this thing underneath the barrel.
14:26I mean, I've used a lot of these, lots of different variants, but what can you tell me about it?
14:32An iconic weapon, no question about that, the history of how this was developed, how it was developed in America,
14:39how it really came into its own in Vietnam.
14:42An iconic weapon, designed to be much lighter, so that troops carry a lot more rounds.
14:48Originally designed by Armolite, but then taken over by Colt and mass produced.
14:53It was immortalised, actually, in the Vietnam films, but probably more so by the man himself, Arnold Schwarzenegger.
15:02He's used it on many occasions.
15:04I've got a picture of him.
15:05No way.
15:05Look.
15:06There he is.
15:06With this, with this variant.
15:08Yeah.
15:09With the grenade.
15:10It's not that gun, but it is that variant, yeah.
15:11You got that out of my phone, but it's me, really, when I was a bit pumped.
15:16I've got a lot of, I've got a connection with this weapon system, because it is the weapon system that
15:20the British Special Forces use, or variants of it.
15:23There's loads of different manufacturers, like you said, you know, Colt took over and mass produced it.
15:28But this thing, essentially, is your personal weapon system as a soldier.
15:34It is something that becomes an extension of your body.
15:37You treat it as such.
15:38It is never out of arms reach.
15:40It is immaculate.
15:41It's kept clean.
15:42It's kept in working order.
15:44And ultimately, this thing is there to save your life, to be quite frank.
15:48And it is a very reliable, very, very good bit of kit.
15:53I've got something to add.
15:55So that gun that you're holding actually was used in a movie as well.
16:01It was in Black Hawk Down.
16:02No way.
16:03Black Hawk Down.
16:04Yeah, yeah.
16:05The Ridley Scott film, yeah.
16:06And I'll just tell you a little thing.
16:08Obviously, when this started being issued out in Vietnam, at the time, the Americans that were supplied with the Vietnamese
16:14Southern Army were M14s.
16:16They are heavy as hell.
16:17Then all of a sudden, this comes along.
16:19And everyone wants one.
16:20Everybody wants one.
16:21So, look at that map, that's where it is built.
16:23When it first came out, apparently, the soldiers hated it because it wasn't issued with cleaning kits in Vietnam.
16:33Absolutely right.
16:34Yeah.
16:34But then, what happened was when they did start issuing it with cleaning kits, I remember the first time that
16:39we started using these, the cleaning kit came in the butt here.
16:44And we used to think, that's cool.
16:46Because all the other cleaning kits we got with the other weapon systems came in its own role.
16:50You had to stick it somewhere else.
16:51This one had a designated place.
16:53That is super cool.
16:55And tell me about the grenade launcher.
16:56I mean, just talk, how deadly is that?
16:59So, that's, it's a 40mm grenade launcher.
17:01So, it's a 40mm grenade launcher.
17:03It doesn't fire grenades that you have in your pouches that you pull out, pull a pin and lob it.
17:08Right.
17:08It's a, it's a bespoke round.
17:10It's just a 40mm, it's a high explosive grenade.
17:13It's fat.
17:14Okay.
17:14But a little bit different to the old grenade launchers on the Lee Enfields, where you had to put the
17:19mill grenade in, pull the pin, put a blank charge up and fire it.
17:23Right.
17:23A little bit different.
17:24There's no way I'm doing that.
17:25Yeah, yeah, yeah.
17:25Look, before we totally go, I wanted to show a few other pictures.
17:32Look, who's that, Jason?
17:34That's a younger version of me carrying an M16 variant that is doing maritime exercises.
17:42So, drilling in the maritime environment, which is a nightmare because metal does not like salt water.
17:51So, when you get back from doing stuff like that, you've got to strip this thing down, clean it, make
17:56sure there is no remnants of salt water on it again, otherwise it turns orange and you get into trouble.
18:01This one, I reckon, is the coolest picture I've seen of you.
18:04Yeah, and a variant.
18:06That is a C8 DeMarco.
18:08So, it's a, it's a Canadian made version of this.
18:12Yeah.
18:12Where were you in that?
18:13Are you allowed to say?
18:15I mean, well, I mean, it was a big country.
18:17We're out in Afghanistan.
18:18That is on operations.
18:20It just so happens that one of the lads had time to get his Sony megapixel camera out and blasted
18:25a few shots off.
18:26So, Jay, we've seen like three iconic assault rifles now.
18:32You've had the STG-44.
18:33You've had the AK-47.
18:36Now, my favourite, the M16.
18:39Which would you say is your favourite?
18:40I mean, obviously you've used the M16, so you're going to be a bit biased, but which is your favourite?
18:44I am going to be biased.
18:46I mean, you've got classic, iconic, and then you've just got the professional.
18:50And that's this one for me.
18:52This thing is versatile.
18:54So, the ones that we had, you can change out the long barrel for a short barrel for different operations
18:59in built up areas.
19:00You can fit all sorts of furniture, is what we call it, onto the weapon system.
19:05So, lasers, torches, optics, you name it, you can get it on it.
19:10It's an unbelievable bit of kit.
19:11I love it.
19:12Bruce?
19:14I've got to go with the MP-44.
19:16For me, it's an iconic.
19:17It was the first assault weapon, the whole thing.
19:20Can you imagine what that did on the battlefield when you started coming up against that thing?
19:25You know, you're developing from a bolt-action rifle to giving troops, platoon-strength troops, company troops, automatic weapons.
19:35And for me, it's the MP-44.
19:37What do you think the value of the M16 with the grenade launcher is?
19:41What, with the provenance from the film?
19:43Yeah.
19:47Two and a half grand.
19:48Okay.
19:49Close.
19:50Three grand.
19:51You're good at this.
19:52You know your stuff.
19:54Is he being cheap?
19:56Checking out the notes.
19:57What's written down here?
19:59Where are we going to find one of these?
20:01Again, iconic place to see these is any military museum, any regimental museums.
20:07And as you know, we're really behind promoting the regimental museums.
20:10So again, over at Berris and Edmunds, you've got the Suffolk Museum as well.
20:16All these museums house these guns.
20:18Yeah.
20:19And they were used by specialist units.
20:21So the Royal Marines, anything to do with the airborne forces, they've also used them at different times, different units.
20:28Okay, so I think that brings to a close another episode of Battle Treasures.
20:33Thanks for joining us.
20:34But before we go, I'd like to say a big thank you to Ed.
20:36Legendary as always.
20:38Cheers, mate.
20:38Sometimes annoying.
20:40And Bruce, an absolute font of knowledge.
20:43Thanks, Jason.
20:44Much appreciated.
20:45Look forward to doing the next episode.
21:18We'll see you next time.
21:18Bye.
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