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00:00I want to remember All Cavs Conversation is brought to you by the fine folks at Surfside Hard Iced Tea
00:03that ask you to please enjoy that hard iced tea responsibly.
00:09620, we had a game plan for it.
00:11I think Evan Mobley's the biggest piece to this puzzle.
00:14Coming out and guarding Carl Anthony Towns.
00:17I was mad at you because I let you take the floor and you took it away from me, you
00:21thieving bastard.
00:22Sorry about that.
00:22Nah, you're fine. You're not sorry about it either.
00:25We just had a couple of calls because I miss pep rally stuff.
00:30I'm a homer. There's a little bit in you.
00:33You don't want to admit it, but there's a little bit more in you than you like to say.
00:37You're certainly more realistic about a lot of things than I am.
00:41I want to do a pep rally.
00:43And we just had a call, Joe in Cleveland Heights, and I did say myself,
00:49a lot of people, well, me, me, me, like, hey man, I penciled him into the finals.
00:53And here we are in the Eastern Conference Finals, and maybe I have to flip-flop a little bit.
00:57Because if we're, no, excuse me, I have to flip-flop.
00:59We're not favored in this series.
01:01If I'm penciling them into the finals, then I'm going off the belief that they're favored
01:05in every series that they play in.
01:07I was excited. It was a dumb thing that I've said.
01:10I've said dumb things before, and I'll say dumb things in the future.
01:13I apologize. I'll try to be better.
01:15That pointed out, I did say myself, and maybe I felt the same way a lot of people did at
01:20that time
01:21in our generation. The league was different. That's the only thing I'll say.
01:24But I felt that once LeBron was gone, and you and I had these fights,
01:29when were we ever going to be really competitive again?
01:32When were we going to have a serious look at this thing?
01:35We wondered if we were going to be irrelevant for a decade.
01:37Because that's typically how it works in the NBA.
01:39So many teams, you can't all be San Antonio, where you go from David Robinson
01:44to Tim Duncan to Wimby Alba, who you saw last night.
01:49Holy cow.
01:50But that's not normal.
01:51It isn't.
01:53But it's also teams that, hey, they had to build it,
01:56because it wasn't that way back in the day.
01:57We were one of the final super teams.
02:00There are super teams that we all know about.
02:02Boston was the originators.
02:04Then there was the Heat, which were the biggest.
02:07Golden State became a super team because of Kevin Durant,
02:09but they were kind of more built in the way that the NBA is built now.
02:13It was just different with the salary cap implications,
02:16so you could be a little bit more flexible than you can.
02:18Excuse me.
02:19You could be a lot more flexible than what you can be now.
02:22It was just a different time.
02:23And we put together a super team.
02:25Well, really, what you've done in so many ways,
02:27hey, you traded for Donovan Mitchell.
02:29Donovan Mitchell's a great player.
02:30Then you found a way to trade for James Harden.
02:31You can't call it a super team because James Harden's 36 years old.
02:34Right.
02:34And as I think it was Terry Pluto, who was on Middays yesterday,
02:40I think it was, it's like, hey, the referendums on James Harden are over.
02:44He might win a title, he might not,
02:46but he's not going to be the number one on a title team.
02:48It is what it is now.
02:49And I think that Terry said it, and if Terry said it, he was right.
02:52Anybody who said it on that show was right because it's the right thing to say.
02:56I also remember arguing with you.
02:57If we go over the history of this,
02:59I remember arguing with you about the fun.
03:01Is this team more fun than the LeBron years?
03:04Is that team more fun than the LeBron years?
03:06And I remember arguing with you at the time because it was all homegrown guys.
03:10At the time we started it, when they first started competing,
03:13it was Colin Sexton, Darius Garland.
03:15Then you went Donovan.
03:16Okay, Donovan, but he was selling all the right things.
03:18And it seemed to be everybody else.
03:20Now, I mean, you brought in James Harden.
03:22People, I think you and I might have underestimated
03:24how reviled James Harden has been in the league.
03:28Well, I, which should be crazy because I reviled him.
03:31I mean, but yeah, but I'm going,
03:32we're getting a really great basketball player here.
03:34And it wasn't like it was a secret.
03:36We talked about it openly.
03:37Like, hey man, you're going to take years off of Darius Garland's career.
03:41He's slighter than James.
03:43Well, like, how are we going to trade for anybody
03:45that's going to be of a top-notch quality
03:47with Darius Garland's injury?
03:49And we were able to trade for somebody really, really good
03:51at the end of the line.
03:52But he's really, really, really good.
03:54Yeah, the case I made for Harden was that he was just,
03:58by any object, objectable, objectable,
04:01by any measure of being, you know, fair and balanced on this, right?
04:07Objective on this.
04:08That he was a better player.
04:09He was an upgrade.
04:09And he was.
04:10And he is.
04:11And I don't think anybody could deny it.
04:13And as mad as you get about the turnovers,
04:14by the way, Stephen Castle had 11 turnovers last night
04:16as a point guard,
04:17of the winning, the victorious Santonio Spurs.
04:22By every measure,
04:23he was going to give you a better shot
04:25against Toronto and Detroit.
04:27And he has.
04:28You just can't make him the focal point of the offense,
04:31which in a lot of losses,
04:32in these playoffs, he has been.
04:34Well, that just can't be the case.
04:35And you notice, by the end of the series,
04:36Evan Mobley was bringing the ball up.
04:38And I think that might have unlocked some things
04:40with Evan Mobley.
04:41Made him a little more confident.
04:42And again, you know,
04:43his handle is going to be big in this series,
04:46especially when, you know,
04:47he has Ananobi on him.
04:49And Hart will be on him.
04:51And so can he dribble the ball
04:52against guys that are shorter than him,
04:54that are, you know, fairly athletic,
04:57long arms, like that's going to be
04:58a big part of this series too.
05:00Which he is listed as probable,
05:02by the way, Ananobi is.
05:03He's had how many days off?
05:04Like eight days off.
05:06This is going to be so exciting to me
05:09to see how Donovan Mitchell gets back.
05:13He did not have a good series,
05:15you know, three years ago
05:16against the Knicks.
05:17Did not shoot it well.
05:18Could not buy a three-point shot.
05:21I got to tell you,
05:21by the end of that series
05:25that we just witnessed,
05:26like Donovan had things going on
05:27and he's going to have even better opportunities
05:29in the pick and roll against Cat
05:31and against Jalen Brunson.
05:33And Josh Hart is a tough competitor,
05:36but does not have that length
05:38and athleticism of Thompson.
05:41So I'm looking forward to that.
05:43Like, I think this could be a series
05:45where Donovan Mitchell can find his footing.
05:47Well, I was also corrected by a producer.
05:49It was Howard Beck,
05:50who was on with Middays yesterday.
05:52I heard that on the warm-up show,
05:53which you can hear at 5 a.m.
05:55with the great Jeff Thomas doing that.
05:57216-474-0092.
05:58I do think, personally,
06:00I think it comes down to Evan Mobley.
06:01Him coming out defending on Carl Anthony Towns,
06:04like I told you before.
06:05You know, I can say whatever I want to
06:06about other guys getting started up.
06:08Now, it's going to be interesting to see
06:09what the Knicks do with Donovan Mitchell.
06:12You know, do they come out?
06:13Do they trap?
06:14Because there's other guys that I have faith in
06:15with our depth that you really could take away
06:18when it came to Detroit.
06:19You know, when they started to really blitz
06:21Cade Cunningham in the fourth quarter of those games,
06:23and it started to change,
06:25you couldn't do it in game six
06:26because it was already out of hand.
06:27But when you started to blitz those guys,
06:29it changed it because your bench wasn't as deep
06:33and you didn't have as much faith
06:35in some of these guys.
06:36Like, Karis LeVert, if he doesn't get hot
06:38at the beginning of the game,
06:39I know there's been times he's got hot later on,
06:41but it's a rare occurrence.
06:43I think if you let Sam Merrill get involved early,
06:46he's going to give you problems.
06:47I think if you let Max Struess get involved early,
06:51he's going to give you problems, okay,
06:53with the second wave.
06:54Those guys are going to give you problems.
06:56So it's going to be interesting to see
06:58what the Knicks decide to do defensively against us.
07:00But again, I think that the entire,
07:03the biggest piece, not the entire series,
07:05but the biggest piece is going to be
07:07what they do with Karl-Anthony Towns,
07:08whether they run the offense through him.
07:10Again, I wouldn't be surprised
07:11if it's just Jalen Brunson at the top of the key
07:13running the offense tonight.
07:14Just, like, out of nowhere.
07:16Well, they're going to want to get,
07:17they're going to want to get Brunson isolated
07:19on Harden and isolated.
07:21And this is, this is a tough,
07:22I'll tell you right now off the bat,
07:23I am a little nervous about Harden in this series
07:26because in the other series,
07:29he was just fine.
07:30Almost in every game except one
07:32where he got matched up against Cunningham
07:33and Cunningham had the seven for seven.
07:35And I think it was game two
07:37and it was horrible for Harden.
07:38But outside of that,
07:39Harden held his own defensively
07:41in so many of these games.
07:42I think it's going to be harder for him
07:44because they don't have stationary guys
07:47at the wing like Tobias Harris
07:48that Harden can just put his forearm out
07:51and refuse to back down.
07:52And I even think Harden did a nice job
07:54closing out on Laverde at times
07:56and keeping him away from the basket.
07:59These Knicks are very good at cutting
08:01and moving without the ball
08:03and Harden can get caught kind of falling asleep.
08:06So I'm a little nervous about that
08:08and I am nervous about Harden being isolated on Brunson.
08:11That could, that could get ugly.
08:12On the flip side,
08:13I think Harden can make Brunson look bad.
08:15I think Harden can have his way at times
08:17even against, um, against Hart
08:19because Hart doesn't have that great length
08:21that some of the other defenders do.
08:23I've been very critical of Madison Square Garden before
08:25and how, like, how tough it is.
08:27I'm like, man, some of the greatest players
08:28in the history of the league
08:29have used your building
08:34to blow up their own legacy
08:36and to basically embarrass you.
08:38I mean, Michael Jordan used to come in there
08:40and rip their hearts out.
08:41It seemed, it felt to me like when I was a kid,
08:43it felt like every single year.
08:44Which, by the way, can I mention something here?
08:46I think we find,
08:47so, my generation, your generation,
08:50Owen, do you think that LeBron was the greatest ever?
08:53Yeah.
08:54Okay.
08:55Yes, yeah.
08:56So,
08:57It's tough to put him over Michael,
08:59but I do barely.
08:59You're right.
09:01Have you,
09:01you've said that LeBron's the greatest ever, right?
09:03Mm-hmm.
09:04Okay, I've,
09:05I've finally come across the aisle
09:06because I,
09:06my feeling is once you say it,
09:08then you can't really take it back
09:09because you're playing against a ghost.
09:11Like, Michael can't come back
09:12and play one-on-one.
09:14Um,
09:15I already saw this
09:16and this is what,
09:17this is great.
09:18I,
09:19this is what makes you love the NBA
09:20is the gatekeeping that goes on.
09:22Real Xavier P,
09:23who listens and we love him.
09:24He brought up,
09:25now I,
09:26did,
09:26did Chris Mannix say that Wemby
09:28was going to be better than LeBron?
09:31Did he say that in the interview with us
09:33at nine o'clock?
09:34He said he was the best player in the league
09:37and he was 22 years old.
09:38And he was going to be the best player in the league
09:40for years to come, right?
09:41Because he,
09:42he pointed out,
09:43Xavier points out the 07 Cavs
09:46and was like,
09:46hey,
09:47ain't dragging that team to the NBA finals.
09:48And I'm like,
09:49wait,
09:49that's fair enough.
09:50But I don't think that he's mentioning LeBron.
09:51I go,
09:52oh my God,
09:52we're doing it.
09:52It's going to be so great.
09:54When you're a 60 year old man
09:55and Wemby is 35,
09:5937 at that time,
10:00when you're turned 60 tone,
10:01like it's going to be a conversation.
10:03I,
10:03it seems that it will be,
10:04let's not,
10:05let's not go too much in a hurry here.
10:07A lot of things got to go his way,
10:08but I think it's going to be that conversation
10:10for our generation,
10:11where it's like,
10:12okay,
10:12it was Michael and Bill Russell
10:14or whoever,
10:16Michael and Will.
10:17And then it becomes LeBron,
10:19Michael and magic.
10:21Kareem.
10:21Kareem,
10:22Kareem,
10:22right?
10:22And it was,
10:23it was very much Kobe got brought up
10:25into the conversation.
10:26Kobe got brought up,
10:27but it's like it in the,
10:29in the timeline,
10:30it's really felt Michael,
10:31then LeBron,
10:32then who?
10:33And there's other guys mentioning that.
10:35A hundred percent.
10:36Michael LeBron,
10:37then who?
10:37And I can already see myself going,
10:39Hey,
10:39you guys don't know what LeBron did.
10:41I mean,
10:41you haven't seen me.
10:42Like I find myself agreeing with Xavier P,
10:44but I'm going,
10:45he didn't even mention LeBron.
10:46He's just saying he's going to be the next great thing.
10:48Yeah.
10:48And,
10:48and you know how this works?
10:49Like,
10:49like you can make the argument that Luca burst onto the scene.
10:53It was actually better earlier than LeBron,
10:55which was crazy.
10:56We never thought that could be possible,
10:57but what has happened to Luca since?
10:59And Luca has gotten to one NBA finals and that's it.
11:03And now,
11:03now dealing with injuries.
11:05And it's like,
11:05when is he going back to the NBA finals?
11:08Forget,
11:08let alone winning championships.
11:10And so when B at his age,
11:13I mean,
11:13this is the best defensive player I've ever seen.
11:15Like,
11:15I don't even,
11:16I don't even know this stretch that he's had over the,
11:19over the last two years,
11:20especially.
11:20I don't know how you could play better defense than what when B does.
11:25And then now you're adding,
11:26Oh,
11:26he's hitting clutch shots.
11:27He's getting every rebound.
11:29And it does.
11:30You watch him and you're like,
11:31that's unfair.
11:32He had Caruso.
11:33Who's a great defensive player.
11:34One of the best in the league.
11:35He had Caruso on him in overtime.
11:38And it was just throw the ball within 30 feet to Wemby.
11:42And he's going to collect it and throw it down.
11:44And there's quite literally nothing you can do other than take cheap shots.
11:47Did he,
11:48or did he not?
11:48What else to do about that?
11:49Did he,
11:49or did he not play against grown men in France?
11:53The levels,
11:54I wouldn't say grown men all the time.
11:57Cause I was going to go,
11:58well,
11:58we got to catch up now.
11:59We got to let our kids play against adults here and make them even better.
12:02Just wondering.
12:03They were very careful with his development.
12:05Like they,
12:05they knew at a very early age,
12:07they didn't want to,
12:08they didn't want to,
12:10you know,
12:11push the cart before the horse on a lot of that stuff.
12:13And I,
12:13as you can see,
12:14like everything they've done has worked out to perfection.
12:17He is way better than anybody thought he would be.
12:19And we all,
12:19we always thought he was going to be young.
12:21Wemby was the litmus test to those who really,
12:23really love basketball.
12:24And those who really like basketball,
12:25like you were watching Wemby in Europe,
12:27like Bill Simmons was watching Wemby in Europe.
12:29I wasn't like there,
12:30no,
12:31it wasn't going to happen.
12:32And I know that his games were kind of hard to find,
12:34but then there were a few of his games that were just like on ESPN two or on
12:37ESPN late.
12:38And so you would watch a little bit of Wemby,
12:40but I'd never,
12:40cause I'm like,
12:41well,
12:41the Cavs ain't going to get them no big deal out of sight,
12:43out of mind.
12:44And I see this go,
12:44Oh my God,
12:45this kid is amazing.
12:46All right.
12:47Tonight,
12:47we do have to focus on the Eastern conference finals.
12:50Cause we're playing the Knicks tonight.
12:51Uh,
12:52the most important Cavalier in my estimation,
12:55you know,
12:56for Donovan,
12:57this is the answer to both questions.
12:59Donovan probably to the rest of the country is the most important Cavalier.
13:02He also probably has the most approved.
13:04Like we talked about most important,
13:06most approved though.
13:06And I keep going back with a lot of like Jared Allen has had two incredible
13:11game sevens.
13:12I don't know if it's going to get to a game seven.
13:14I hope it doesn't hope the Cavs went in four,
13:15but obviously things change.
13:18Do this,
13:19do the comments about the bright light still stick out to some people when it
13:23comes to Jared Allen?
13:24I don't know how that's not gone because he's been fabulous.
13:27I just want to make sure he's been fabulous.
13:29He is completely outplayed his contract.
13:32He probably is the best value in the NBA for his contract.
13:38That pointed out.
13:39He was the guy who admitted that the brights were the lights were too bright
13:42for the Cavaliers a few years ago.
13:44And it,
13:44I think that's kind of gone away from Cavs fans,
13:48but you know,
13:49if there's a struggle there,
13:50it's going to be the first thing some goofballs bring up here.
13:53Like tonight,
13:54if they lose tonight,
13:55I'm not going to sit there and freak out tomorrow morning.
13:56I'm not going to lose my mind.
13:58I think some people will.
13:59I'm not.
14:00It's,
14:00it's the early part of a series.
14:02Your first two series have gone seven games.
14:04If they get close and they lose,
14:05I'll probably be very frustrated if they're close and they lose.
14:08And now if they win,
14:08I think I'm going to celebrate like it's a party.
14:10Cause Oh my God,
14:10you've played that many basketball games and that amount of time.
14:14And you went out there and you delivered the first punch on the road,
14:17silencing that crowd.
14:18I mean,
14:18I'm going to go crazy.
14:20And then you're three wins away from competing for a championship.
14:22Then three wins away from competing for a championship.
14:23We don't debate anymore.
14:24We're like,
14:24yeah,
14:24they are a championship contender.
14:25So that,
14:26that might be part of the fun.
14:27I'm just thinking about guys who have something to prove.
14:29Like I,
14:30Donovan going back to New York is,
14:31you know,
14:31his father has worked for the Mets for a very long time.
14:34It's fish in a barrel.
14:35That guy has something to prove to the NBA,
14:38to New York,
14:39to everybody.
14:41Definitely has the most to prove on the Cavaliers.
14:42But I think for some of us,
14:44it's like,
14:44man,
14:44Jarrett has had a really nice post season.
14:47He's had a really good season,
14:48but he's had a really nice post season.
14:50Boy,
14:51just one little extra dragon that could get slayed.
14:54If he goes out there,
14:55plays his ass off,
14:56plays physical against Mitchell Robinson or anybody out there.
15:00And is able to answer the bell against this next team.
15:03It would be great.
15:04Here's what I love.
15:04We just saw at the end of that series,
15:06Cade Cunningham,
15:07Tobias Harris look physically and maybe mentally gassed,
15:11right?
15:12And we were wondering if that was going to happen to Harden and Mitchell.
15:17Instead,
15:18it happened to the Detroit guys and Cade Cunningham's young.
15:21It happened to him.
15:22And now the Cavs,
15:24like this,
15:24this should be tough,
15:25like playing every other day for three straight weeks.
15:27That should be,
15:28and it'll end up being four straight weeks.
15:29That is brutal from a scheduling standpoint.
15:32And the Knicks have had all this time off,
15:34but Evan Mobley and Jared Allen seem to be getting stronger.
15:37And Donovan Mitchell towards the end of that series seem to be getting
15:42stronger.
15:43And just keep your eye on that because the last two years,
15:46Mitchell has been on fumes at the end of two rounds.
15:49Yeah.
15:49And now he's broken through that glass ceiling.
15:53Let's go.
15:54A little bit of the James Harden difference.
15:55Let's go.
15:56A little bit of the James Harden difference.
15:57Big thanks to Chris Mannix who joined us today.
16:00Jason,
16:00Lace and Joy will join us tomorrow.
16:02How much fun is this going to be tonight though,
16:04Kenny?
16:04Cav,
16:05if the Cavs win,
16:06it's basically four hours of Cavs tomorrow.
16:08If it doesn't go our way,
16:10we got to think about helicopter parents coming in tomorrow,
16:12which ain't going to be fun.
16:14We got to get it.
16:15Let's get it going.
16:15Let's go.
16:16Let's go.
16:17Let's get it going.
16:18This is going to be fun.
16:19Wake your dead asses up and let's go.
16:21They are going to be showing those celebrities courtside for the Knicks.
16:26And if this thing gets away from the Knicks tonight,
16:29after all that rest,
16:30they are going to be panicky Pete's panicky Pete Davidson.
16:34They are going to be panicky in that arena.
16:38All those people sitting in the Raptors that paid 600 to 800 to a thousand dollars.
16:43If Donovan Mitchell quits on a show,
16:45a virtuoso MSG performance,
16:48do you know what that building is going to sound like?
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