- 1 day ago
Shan and Bobby got into a spirited discussion about the Mavericks' future. Shan proposed trading this year's draft pick and Kyrie to land a superstar like Giannis or Jaylen Brown. They broke down recent blockbuster returns to argue whether Dallas actually has the capital, or if they should simply build around Cooper Flagg.
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00:00So, I'm asking for your help, because I obviously have mastered compensation in the National Football League.
00:08But in the NBA, Anthony Davis, he threw me off.
00:11Luka Doncic, he threw me off.
00:14Bassick has blown me up in commercial breaks, saying Anthony Davis is not going to get back a first-round
00:19pick.
00:20You really have to move on.
00:21He was...
00:23Did you include the Luka trade as messing up your compensation?
00:26No, I'm making a joke.
00:28I would never insult myself twice.
00:32But I don't know what Kyrie could bring back.
00:34So, here's what I would like to do.
00:36And you can immediately swap me and tell me I'm stupid.
00:40Since the Mavericks right now would be picking eighth, I'm interested in comboing that pick with Kyrie Irving,
00:49figuring out what else I would have to throw in to go big game hunting for Giannis or Jalen Brown.
00:57Is that stupid?
00:59That's surprising that you'd want to do that, I feel like.
01:02Well, if you told me I was at six, if you told me I was at five, if you told
01:06me I'd end up there, I'm saying no.
01:08But, and again, you're going to get all-stars, and you're going to get, you know, great players outside the
01:15top six.
01:15I'm letting Jamal Mashburn be seeping in my mind too much when he's like, this is a draft with a
01:21top five or six.
01:22A Cooper flag couldn't even break.
01:24But if you end up at eight, or God forbid, even worse, if I took that, combined it with Kyrie,
01:32what could I get back?
01:34I'm asking for NBA cock assistance, king of compensation, on the Franklin and Franco fan text.
01:40And I don't want to be an unreasonable Mavs fan.
01:44When I first started here, Choppy was like, oh no.
01:47You got Mavs fans who are thinking that they can trade Josh Howard for Dwight Howard or Carmelo Anthony.
01:56Like, these ridiculous proposals.
01:58Dude, the...
01:59I don't want to be guilty of that.
02:00The fan text yesterday when we were talking about, maybe you trade Kyrie and try to build with that.
02:06Somebody was like, no, you don't trade Kyrie.
02:08Just use Derek Lively.
02:10And I'm like, guys.
02:12Lively at some point may have been on a trajectory to be a really good compensation piece.
02:16But he's hurt all the time.
02:18Gafford's a better return piece than Lively at this point.
02:21Yeah, this is like when, you know, the Diggs fans who, wow, shockingly went hiding.
02:27I've never heard from again.
02:29Just like Diggs.
02:30Never heard from him again.
02:30Let's trade Trayvon for a second.
02:33At the very worst, let's trade Trayvon for a third.
02:36So I don't want to be guilty of that.
02:37So I want a reasonable return.
02:39Just follow along with me for the exercise.
02:42And if you don't want to trade for an older player, I get that too.
02:46I get a lot of Mavs tolos who said, no, let's just go ahead and draft another young kid
02:51and pair him alongside Cooper Flagg.
02:54But Giannis, it looks like, is going to be moved.
02:58Jimmy Haslam, who I did not realize was part owner of the Bucs, is saying we'd like to get this
03:04resolved before the draft.
03:06And it feels like Giannis will finally get out of there.
03:08I've been guilty of saying that multiple times already.
03:10And then you've got the Jalen Brown stuff with all the noise that has been happening in Boston.
03:17And we'll go ahead and start off with Tracy McGrady, who is apparently a mentor to Jalen Brown,
03:24letting this out on his cousin's podcast with Vince Carter.
03:27This frustration lies deeply within the organization and other things that...
03:33Of course.
03:34Of course.
03:34We don't really have the details, too.
03:39There's just been a lot of stuff that I've been hearing just going on with the Boston organization, with JB.
03:46So I think part of him is like, I showed you guys more of who I am as a basketball
03:53player.
03:54Not only just what I did on the basketball court, but the leadership that I displayed within this team.
04:01And you've seen that, not having our best player in JT.
04:07You've seen a different side of me and what I'm able to bring to the game of basketball.
04:12So all that stuff, I think, just came into play with him and his frustration.
04:19So that's TMAC, and people are like, uh-oh, siren's going off.
04:22Vegas and BetOnline sent me the odds of Jalen Brown returning to the Celtics.
04:26Yes, minus 250, he will return.
04:29No, it's plus 170.
04:30So right now Vegas has it as basically 71%.
04:33He returns in the green, but they gave me teams that could deal for him.
04:38His hometown Hawks lead the way at 2-1.
04:40Then the Pelicans, Bucs, Rockets, Miami, Blazers, Sacramento, I had to go all the way down to the Dallas Mavericks
04:48at 28-1 to possibly trade for Jalen Brown.
04:51But let's just say, and Celtics fans and others are really disturbed that Jalen has been saying on his live
04:58streams that this year was the most enjoyable season he had, even over the championship year.
05:05And they're like, oh, does that mean you have a problem with Tatum?
05:06Does that mean you have a problem sharing the spotlight?
05:08I can kind of defend it, Bobby, a little bit in saying it could have just meant more that they
05:13had such a surprising, amazing season, and you had to count on the rest of your teammates.
05:18It was a special camaraderie or chemistry to pull off what the Celtics did, because I was stunned by what
05:24happened with their success.
05:25And I give Joe Mazzula his props as possible, probable coach of the year.
05:30But that took people by surprise that Jalen Brown said that.
05:34So, Kyrie, number eight, you are Brad Stevens in Boston, and I'm Masai Ujiri calling you with that, and you're
05:43saying what back to me?
05:44Kyrie, no, we will not have him back in Boston, and he will never come back here, so thanks.
05:50That, unfortunately, is what my Celtics guys said immediately to me yesterday when I was like, help me with compensation
05:56here.
05:56What else would it take?
05:58And he's like, it's just, it's never going to happen.
06:01Kyrie back to Boston.
06:02And I wrote back, he's reformed.
06:03What do you mean?
06:04He's reformed.
06:05It's fine.
06:05Let's go ahead and do that.
06:06But you just gave that response.
06:08Yeah.
06:09Even with reform, it's like, I don't think he wants to go back there.
06:13And I don't think Boston, Boston hates him.
06:16Like, there was so much intensity surrounding his opinion.
06:20Like, you've got to think, for the story not to be, when the Mavericks got to the finals,
06:25for the story not to be Luka Doncic is going for his first NBA title, pretend that being Kyrie versus
06:31Boston,
06:31like that had to speak to the significance of how intense it was for everybody.
06:34And we all felt like he crumbled a little bit in those games.
06:37But let's just, yeah, he definitely crumbled.
06:39Let's just take that out of it, though.
06:40Let's just, help me with the compensation.
06:42Jalen Brown, for, like, do the Mavs have anything that could get that done?
06:48And there's another Tolo saying, no, just package PJ and Gaffer and see what that gets you to pair along
06:53with Cooper and Kyrie.
06:55No, I don't think you can get Jalen Brown for anything you have.
06:57Like, I mean, just, it would have to be, you end up with...
07:02The fifth pick, top five?
07:04Or, like, probably higher, I would guess.
07:07Because, I mean, it's, so I'm looking over this.
07:09This is what's so hard about being the king of compensation for NBA, is that it's all over the place.
07:14So, I just was looking around at the biggest names that have been traded in the NBA in the last
07:19five years and what they got in return.
07:21And it's all over the place.
07:22Yeah.
07:23So, Kevin Durant in 2023 went to the Suns for Bridges, Cam Johnson, Jay Crowder, four first-rounders, and a
07:312028 first-round swap.
07:33Damian Lillard went for Drew Holiday, DeAndre Ayton, a 2029 Bucks first, and pick swaps.
07:41And that's with some other players going the other way, in terms of the Suns.
07:46James Harden in 2021 went for Karis LeVert, Dante Exum, three Nets firsts, four Nets swaps, and a 2022 first
07:54via Cleveland from Milwaukee.
07:57Donovan Mitchell, 2022.
07:59He went to the Jazz, or the Jazz got Laurie Marketing, Colin Sexton, unprotected firsts in 25, 27, 29, and
08:06swaps in 26, 28.
08:08So, it's all over the place in terms of what gets you compensation.
08:13Because, I mean, to me, there was no reason that Durant went for as much as he did to the
08:17Suns when he went.
08:18Yeah.
08:18But then there's other times where you're looking and go, like, why didn't that guy garner more?
08:22I think...
08:22So, then we shouldn't even go through a Giannis exercise with this.
08:27No, we can't.
08:28I don't want to waste time.
08:28No, the whole point, just the problem is, like, you have to figure out, you have to figure out the
08:33answer to a different question.
08:34How much does Giannis, would Giannis like to be here?
08:38Him wanting to be here could change how the compensation works out, because you start narrowing your choices.
08:44How much is Kyrie amenable to go places?
08:47It's such a player-driven league and player power league.
08:50Yeah.
08:50That their desires...
08:52And Masai Ujiri's got a great relationship, apparently, with Giannis Antetokounmpo.
08:55So, like, that may be enough.
08:56Does he hold anything against Jason Kidd, though, from his days with that?
08:59Like, those are the kind of questions that I think we need to answer to figure out how much the
09:03compensation would actually be to get him here.
09:04Are you totally against the idea of trading the pick and or Kyrie?
09:10For Giannis, no.
09:11I would do it.
09:12In general?
09:13For a big name?
09:15I...
09:15It would have to be, like...
09:17Like, Jalen Brown would be worth it to you?
09:19Yeah.
09:19Yeah.
09:20I'd take the actual good player on the Celtics.
09:22Not the other slap.
09:24So, no.
09:26Jalen Brown, sure, worth it.
09:27Because, I mean, you don't know what you're getting with that pick.
09:29Yeah.
09:29He's a stud.
09:30Kyrie's really good.
09:31Kyrie is a smaller guard who makes his living off lateral agility who has not been able to return from
09:39a lateral injury in the last two years.
09:41That's concerning.
09:42All right, Pepe.
09:42What are the Tolo's saying initially?
09:45Let's see.
09:45The 817 says, I'm wondering how many first-round picks Lively, Gafford, and Kyrie could get you in the next
09:50three years.
09:51512 says, get Cooper Flagg a young running mate just like the Spurs.
09:55214 asks, if we were to just trade Kyrie, how high of a draft pick could we get in this
10:00year's draft?
10:01That's what I'm trying to figure out.
10:02469.
10:03What do we get back for the Luka trade?
10:04I forget.
10:05We don't need to go back.
10:08Like, Kyrie...
10:09Giannis is a terrible fit next to Flagg, in my opinion.
10:11So 214 just wouldn't even want to go just for the fit purposes.
10:15Jalen Brown.
10:16Now, Brad Stevens had to answer some of this noise yesterday in Boston.
10:22And he's like, Jalen Brown has not suggested those Tracy McGrady frustrations to me.
10:27Jalen addressed it on another stream.
10:30Got some comments to react to.
10:31I got fine, 50K.
10:32But first things first, a lot of stuff swirling around the Celtics and the organization.
10:38I hate that our president of basketball operations even had to respond to this.
10:43Me and Brad have a great relationship.
10:45I love Boston.
10:46If it was up to me, I could play in Boston for the next team.
10:49I'll say it again.
10:51I hate that our...
10:52You know, I hate that Brad even had to respond to this, like I said.
10:56What are those beefs?
10:57Are those indications...
10:58I think people are following his stream or something like that.
11:00It sounded like indications of like, that's a lie.
11:02That's a lie.
11:03I'm just like, we're great.
11:04I'm not...
11:05I don't want to go anywhere.
11:06Boop-doop.
11:07So he's saying, I'm good in Boston.
11:09I can play here 10 more years.
11:11He got fined $50,000 by the NBA for calling out the officials, which was a ridiculous take
11:17by him.
11:17You weren't crying about anything until y'all choked away the 3-1 lead.
11:21And he also called Joel Embiid a flopper.
11:23So that's Jalen Brown.
11:25He's always going to make some type of weird...
11:28It's like carrying the old Kyrie mantle of always being in the news for something.
11:31What is the best way...
11:34And there's some people in the fan text right now going, y'all are trying to rush the rebuild.
11:37Slow down.
11:38You don't need to just start throwing away resources to try and make this happen so fast.
11:42I wouldn't be bringing this up if we didn't have eight.
11:45Yeah.
11:47It feels like you're on the outside looking in.
11:49And so what?
11:50Lottery is what?
11:51This Sunday?
11:52This weekend.
11:52This Sunday night.
11:54Man, it all changes, I think.
11:57Your whole perspective changes.
11:58So in general, we've already talked about Masai Ujiri's whole pull is what he can do
12:04to build around players and then not necessarily have to sacrifice a ton of capital.
12:08He can go find you all the value buys.
12:09So if that turns into three, let's say, or something like that, or five, then is it really
12:15worth it to go out and get somebody versus just saying, let's go with the five.
12:19We've got a Cooper flag here.
12:21We'll try to get something from Kyrie in terms of in a trade.
12:24And then what we're going to do is we're going to lean on Masai Ujiri to go find us these
12:27role players like he's always found everywhere else.
12:29Look, I think we have to start.
12:33We always do cowboy war room scenarios.
12:35I think we need to have a maverick war room discussion.
12:37And I know that Masai the other day was, you know, acting like he had been daydreaming
12:43about Kyrie and flag together.
12:45Let's sit down in the mad war room and have this talk.
12:49Look, if we have Kyrie, Cooper flag, and let's say we draft Dylan Harper, San Antonio, and
12:59he has the rookie season that he did.
13:02What are, are we a playoff team?
13:05With Dylan Harper, Cooper flag, and healthy Kyrie?
13:09Yeah.
13:09Yeah.
13:10Dylan Harper was 12, three and three.
13:13I'll give you, I'll give you a, I'll give you a knipple.
13:17Let's just say he's con.
13:19Let's just say your rookie is con for the first year.
13:21What are we?
13:22My premise is, for all these Mavs fans who are like, I can't wait to see Kyrie with
13:28flag, you're not dangerous next year.
13:32And if you're not dangerous next year, I can't count on Kyrie after that, health-wise, to put
13:42me in a two or three year contender window, and that's why I'd like to trade him for
13:45a first.
13:46Who's, who, let's just take a quick look at the roster.
13:49So who here are you like, yeah, can be here for, for the rebuild the next few years?
13:55Like, I'm cool with them being part of this core that they're building up for Kyrie Irving.
13:59No.
14:00Probably worth more in capital than, than him being here just because of the age and stuff.
14:03Clay Thompson.
14:04No.
14:05Daniel Gafford.
14:07No.
14:08I'm, I like Gafford.
14:09I'm okay if Gafford's part of what they're building.
14:11That, that wouldn't bug me.
14:12P.J. Washington, who's under contract for five years.
14:15I like, I like P.J.
14:16I mean, give me the ages on them too.
14:17What's Gafford's age?
14:18Gafford is 26, isn't he?
14:21Uh, let me look him up.
14:22I think he's 26 or 27.
14:24But, uh, you got P.J. Washington on there, uh, 27 years old for Daniel Gafford.
14:28Okay, and P.J.?
14:29P.J. Washington is 20, he'll be 28 in August.
14:34Okay.
14:34I, you know, I like those guys.
14:36I'm fine with them, but I'm not crying if they go.
14:39Uh, Max Christie.
14:41No.
14:42I'm not saying I'm not keeping them.
14:44They don't, I'm not, but I'm not sweating them being gone.
14:46Oh, no, I, yeah, not sweating them being gone, but like, are those the people who's like,
14:49as you start assigning, all right, who are we, who are we looking to move versus who are
14:54we just keeping here to, to play around?
14:56There's no one out, there's not one other person besides Cooper Flagg.
14:58There's not one that is essential to having to keep as a core.
15:01Not essential.
15:02I would like to keep one of, when you're looking at blowing it up.
15:05And I'm including Lively in that right now with his health.
15:07When you're looking at blowing it up, I would like to keep one of Gafford or Lively at least.
15:11Okay.
15:11For the rebuild.
15:12And then I would keep Max Christie.
15:13I think Max Christie here with Cooper Flagg would, I think that's fine.
15:16Otherwise, yeah, anybody's on the table.
15:18Yeah.
15:19So, I don't know.
15:21Maybe I'm rushing to it too much.
15:22Maybe I'm underestimating what you can go ahead and get at eight.
15:26Sounds like any Jalen Brown Giannis offers, the Mavs don't have the capital to make that happen.
15:32I actually think the answer could be staring us right in the face as Brian Windhorst suggested.
15:40Doesn't this blockbuster just make too much sense?
15:43This is extraordinarily simple.
15:45Of course it makes sense for Milwaukee.
15:47You've got it exactly right, Greeny.
15:48Of course Milwaukee would see some of the stuff that Jalen Brown is saying and watch everything and they would
15:53get ready to call Boston.
15:54And from Boston's standpoint, this is very simple.
15:57In July, Jalen Brown has the opportunity to sign a contract extension with the Celtics.
16:04If he is happy with the Celtics, it's a huge one.
16:07It can be $70 million a year.
16:09He's just coming off his best season.
16:11You're going to offer it.
16:12If he's happy with the Celtics, sign.
16:15See you in September.
16:16If he's not happy with the Celtics and he's like, listen, I'm not sure I want to be here, trade.
16:21This is, I mean, obviously the trade execution would be a little different.
16:25This is all going to take care of itself.
16:27Doesn't it just make so much sense to swap Jalen Brown and Giannis?
16:32It does.
16:33What doesn't make sense about it?
16:35It's one of those things that's so obvious, so simple in my mind.
16:38I'm like, I'm trying to think and I'm like, I don't need to overthink this.
16:43You get different positions in Boston.
16:46You don't have to have this Tatum-Brown dynamic if there's any type of discomfort between the two.
16:53You got a high-low game.
16:54And then Milwaukee, in a market that doesn't get these guys, gets a young, absolute stud.
17:01Is there any part of Jalen Brown that reminds you of the A.J. Brown situation?
17:07Like, he's clearly not the same pain that A.J. Brown has been.
17:11Yeah.
17:11But just a little bit of like...
17:13Jalen's 29, by the way, too.
17:15But just a little bit of like, man, he's really good, and sometimes a lot of his frustrations might be
17:19warranted.
17:22I don't know.
17:23I honestly...
17:24The Jalen Brown problem...
17:27He seems like such a...
17:28Is the word mercurial?
17:30Yeah.
17:30He seems like a perfect type of dude for Joe Mazzulla.
17:33The Beverly Hills thing that took place.
17:36His battle with the shoe companies.
17:38The Olympics not picking him.
17:40It's those types of things.
17:42You know?
17:42I don't know whether he's criticizing and killing his team.
17:46He's not doing it as much as A.J. Brown was, and A.J. was correct.
17:49A.J.'s are within the organization, and Jalen's are outside the organization, it seems.
17:55Yeah, other than whatever tension they think could be there between, oh, is there just a Tatum-Brown ego clash
18:01that exists here?
18:02But I think Jalen, the other day in the press conference, was like, hey, we were missing our best player,
18:06so he tried to give Tatum his flowers.
18:08Boy, I think Jason Kidd knew that was tension over there.
18:13When he said during the finals, he goes, yeah, I mean, talking about Jalen Brown, he's great, he's their best
18:18player, blah, blah, blah.
18:19And he was like, what was that?
18:20What do you mean he's their best player?
18:23Knowing Kidd's psychological warfare techniques, I think Kidd had a hint that maybe they do have a little bit of
18:29tension over there about that.
18:30877-881-1053 to hit us up, so I just wanted to get a couple things straight.
18:37Number one, do we all agree that Kyrie and Cooper Flagg and the draft pick are not dangerous enough next
18:43year to not put Kyrie on the block?
18:48Can we agree on that?
18:49Number two, would Kyrie and the draft pick be enough to get you a legit, established Cooper Flagg running mate?
18:58And it sounds like at least the answer to that second question is no.
19:02And I don't even know what you would prefer.
19:04Like, if you could get a Jalen Brown.
19:06Kevin Durant doesn't sound like he's going to be long for the armpit.
19:09He's going to go to another team with the burner accounts that the Rockets teammates apparently did believe was legitimate.
19:18So, just thinking about that before the draft lottery this weekend.
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