- 16 hours ago
NBA insider Chris Mannix joined Shan and Bobby to talk about the Mavericks’ home-run hire of Masai Ujiri and what it means for the teams rebuild. He discussed Ujiri’s championship pedigree, the potential trade market for Kyrie Irving, how the front office can maximize a roster built around Cooper Flagg, and more.
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00:00Joined by the great NBA insider Chris Mannix from SINBA on NBC, NBC Boston, all of it.
00:07Good morning, Chris. How are you?
00:09What's happening, guys?
00:11Is this a great morning for DFW? Do you view it that way?
00:15Yeah, I do.
00:17I think everybody kind of gets what they want with this hiring of Messiah Jerry.
00:24We know Patrick Dumont wanted to go big game hunting here.
00:30And I've been reporting on some of the names over the last few weeks.
00:33And certainly some of them were pie in the sky.
00:36You were never going to get Sam Presti.
00:38You were never going to get Brad Stevens or Bob Myers.
00:42But the next guy on that list or the most gettable guy on that list was Messiah Jerry.
00:48And they got him.
00:49I mean, you mentioned what he did in Toronto even before then.
00:53I mean, he was a great executive.
00:54He won exec of the year in 2013, building that Nuggets team into a 57-game winner in Denver.
01:01So he's proven it with multiple organizations.
01:05He's a savvy guy.
01:07He's just a really good culture guy.
01:11He's everything he could possibly want in a head of basketball operations.
01:15Now, he's got a lot of work to do there.
01:16And I'm sure there's going to be people underneath him in that front office, as there was in Toronto.
01:22But having Messiah Jerry running the show, that's a huge win for Dallas.
01:27You know, Messiah Jerry looks at the landscape of what the Mavericks have in terms of resources.
01:32And when the Mavericks look on the other side of that as well, do you think for both of them,
01:38it was like, you know what?
01:38This is a job that he can handle, given his ability to go find the Fred Van Vliet or getting
01:44a Pascal Siakam late in the first round and being able to know how to develop that?
01:47Is the lack of resources, essentially, that Dallas has over the next few years one of the reasons why they
01:52feel like, all right, he's more uniquely equipped to be able to handle this sort of rebuild than other people?
01:57I don't know if that played a big role in his desire to take the job or Dallas' desire to
02:03give him the job.
02:06But I just think they wanted a guy with his cachet there and with his history there.
02:12I mean, he's got, you know, like we said, he's got the pedigree behind him.
02:17And look, I understand the issues, the potential issues, the trouble you're going to have building on a team maybe
02:24over the next few years.
02:25But I think this Dallas job was a pretty appealing one to a lot of executives that were out there.
02:31I mean, if you're not attached to the stink of the Luka Doncic trade, like it's a great job.
02:37You've got Cooper Flagg.
02:38You've got a couple of picks in his draft.
02:41You've got some maneuverability there.
02:43You've got a chance to rebuild the thing.
02:46You're going to have a long runway to be able to do it.
02:49No longer are you the team that has to win the next two or three years.
02:52You've got a very young franchise player who you can build around for the next three or four years before
02:58you're ready to hopefully make that jump into a winner.
03:01So I think it's, you know, Dallas, the people in Dallas spend so much time within the organization, like assessing
03:07blame for the Doncic deal.
03:09Like who knew, who didn't, who had input here, who didn't.
03:12Masai Ujiri is coming in with a clean slate.
03:14And I think that's as important as anything in this decision.
03:17Chris, what type of guy is he?
03:18Like what type of moves is he known for if you could further educate us and our audience?
03:24I mean, he's a very engaging guy.
03:26Like you'll see from the opening press conference that he's the kind of guy that you listen to him once
03:32and you start thinking you'll run through a wall for him.
03:34Like he has that kind of personality.
03:37He's a bold guy, too.
03:39I mean, he made some bold moves in Denver to build that team up.
03:42And there's no bolder move to make, as you guys know, than going out and getting Kawhi Leonard in 2019
03:48and risking the future of your franchise on a one-year bet that ultimately paid off.
03:53I mean, he's smart enough to know, and Dallas is a long way from this, but he's smart enough to
03:59know when a team has hit a ceiling, when they've hit a wall, and when they need to be shaken
04:03up.
04:04And you mentioned some of the guys that he's drafted and his front office have drafted over the years.
04:09He's able to find diamonds in the rough.
04:11He's able to draft well, you know, for the most part.
04:13He's got some whiffs, like every GM does.
04:15But he drafts pretty well in the first round.
04:18I just think he's an elite executive.
04:21And, you know, not only does he, you know, that's what I said at the beginning.
04:24You're getting the best of kind of everything.
04:26Not only is Patrick Jumont getting a guy that has the swagger that he was looking for,
04:31you're also getting a real guy, a guy that's hungry, a guy that wants to win,
04:35and is eager to succeed in his next stop.
04:38Chris Mannix from SI joining us here on 105 Through the Fan.
04:42Chris, you know, we had a message earlier today on our listener line,
04:46and somebody said, if he's as great as everybody's talking about,
04:49why did Toronto walk away from him?
04:50Why isn't he still in Toronto, if that's the case?
04:52Could you just talk about some of the nature of his departure from Toronto
04:56and why he has been away from the game now for a year or so?
05:00I mean, there's an expiration date on everything with most front office executives.
05:05Unless your name is Pat Riley, like, you're not going to be around forever.
05:10Look, he wasn't able to engineer the kind of turnaround
05:14that the Raptors hoped for post-championship.
05:18And, look, that's partly due to the fact they went all in to go get Kawhi.
05:23They got him for a year.
05:24Then he left, and you're kind of in a position where you're rebuilding.
05:28You lost Fred Van Vliet, that chipped away at the core of that team as well.
05:33And then they had to go into a rebuild there,
05:36and it just wasn't working the way that the Raptors ownership group at that time wanted to work.
05:42I don't think it – you know, I could tell you league-wide,
05:44the perception of Masai remained high after he exited Toronto,
05:50which I just felt like there was – his time there had run its course.
05:52And whether it was Dallas or somewhere else, he was going to get another opportunity to run an NBA team.
05:59And I think the Mavericks are lucky to get him down there because I do think he's the right guy
06:03for that job.
06:04You know, you mentioned that as long as you're not attached to the stink of the Luka trade,
06:09like anybody from that Nico regime, there's an attractiveness to this job.
06:13Him walking in here and stepping into this and realizing it's still, for the most part,
06:18a slightly healing fan base from that trade and coming around to this new era with Cooper Flagg.
06:23What do you think year one, it's like, all right, top-line item,
06:27Masai Ujiri's got to make sure he's doing this to get Dallas heading in the right direction?
06:31Well, I think the biggest decision that he's going to have to make roster-wise
06:36is going to be Kyrie Irving and what you do with him.
06:39It just seemed like the previous administration firmly believed that the best course for this team
06:46was to keep Kyrie going into next year, play him alongside Cooper Flagg,
06:51get him the point guard that he needs.
06:52And, look, maybe that's still the strategy of Masai Ujiri when he comes in.
06:58But, you know, again, Masai's got a clean slate here.
07:01He doesn't have to – he's not beholden to any of the decisions that were made by anybody else.
07:06And, you know, if there's a market for Kyrie this summer, which I think there could be –
07:11I mean, look, there's going to be a lot of teams that are, you know,
07:15gearing up to make a run at Giannis Tentacompo, like six, seven, eight teams out there.
07:19They're going to be, you know, breaking down Milwaukee's doors to try to go get Giannis.
07:23You want to be – if you're shopping Kyrie Irving, as soon as that deal goes down for Giannis,
07:29whoever it may be, you're calling every other team and seeing if they're interested in getting your guy
07:33and if they'll give up to get Kyrie.
07:36I think there's a potential opening to maximize the value for Kyrie Irving if he decides to trade.
07:41Look, eventually Kyrie's not going to be there.
07:44I mean, this is going – this Dallas team is going a different direction.
07:47He signed on to play with, you know, first with Luka and then with Anthony Davis.
07:51So there's going to be a parting of the ways at some point.
07:54But it might be – if the market is robust enough this summer, there might be an opportunity to go
08:00and trade him.
08:01And I think that's the biggest decision that Masai would have to make.
08:04Stay the course, bring Kyrie back, you know, play him alongside Cooper Flagg
08:08and try to enhance Cooper in that way.
08:10Or do you try to max value him right now and get something, get some draft capital back in return?
08:16Yeah, Chris, to me, man – and I know it's one of the craziest sports statements of all time.
08:20It's one of the craziest turnarounds personality-wise of all time.
08:24Like, everyone is in love with Kyrie here, and we love what he's been all about as a Maverick as
08:28well.
08:28But to me, from a team-building standpoint, it doesn't make any sense to keep him.
08:33And I think a lot of Mavs fans are just in love and married to him.
08:37But from a team-building standpoint, I think I'm getting the sense from you.
08:42Do you think that they should deal him now?
08:46I don't think you just give him away.
08:47Because I think if you bring him back next season and he looks like the Kyrie before the injury,
08:52the market's going to be there for him before the trade deadline.
08:55So I think there's some flexibility there.
08:57There's not any pressure to deal Kyrie Irving.
09:00All I was pointing out was really the fact that, like, there's going to be a lot of teams left
09:04at the altar
09:04when the honest stuff shakes out going, wait a minute, we've got these draft picks,
09:08we've got these movable contracts, what do we do with them?
09:11And, like, there's nothing better for an executive to smell the whiff of desperation on other teams.
09:16And I think there could be a couple of teams out there that are looking around going,
09:20hey, look, it's an arms race in whatever conference I'm in.
09:23We can't stand Pat.
09:25We've got to do something.
09:26Kyrie, you know, he's been remarkable in Dallas.
09:29He has shaken off the negativity of his previous stops and then some.
09:34So, like, I think there are teams that are going to be out there.
09:37They're looking at their roster going, like, oh, we didn't get Giannis.
09:40Well, we've got to get something.
09:41And Kyrie is still a preeminent scorer, a preeminent lead guard.
09:45There could be a chance to maximize that value this offseason.
09:49If there is, I think if you're Dallas and in the position Masai is going to be in,
09:52you've got to at least consider it.
09:54Chris Mannix with us here on 105 Through the Fan.
09:57All right, so at the end of last season, Chris, it started to feel like,
10:00now that all the dust had settled and the Nico stuff had passed,
10:03there started to be more questions about, you know, what was Jason Kidd's involvement?
10:07And it felt like there was a lot more heat kind of being turned up on him,
10:10of being like, you know, you're kind of the last remaining one from this group
10:13that we were looking kind of side-eyed at.
10:15Is the hiring here of Masai Ujiri a positive or potentially a negative
10:21for Jason Kidd and his future with Dallas?
10:23It's a good question.
10:26Look, Masai recognizes talent, right?
10:29Like, he recognizes smart coaching.
10:32You know, he was on the ground floor of Nick Nurse within Toronto.
10:37And I think Jason is not in any imminent danger as far as head coaching
10:42because I think that, frankly, Kelly Flagg really likes him.
10:47And, like, he thinks he did a tremendous job with Cooper.
10:50And I think ownership feels the same way.
10:52And they should.
10:52He won Rookie of the Year.
10:53He had a fantastic year.
10:54They tinkered with some stuff early on that didn't work.
10:57The Point-Cooper thing was a disaster.
10:59But they figured it out.
11:00And, you know, now they've got the Rookie of the Year who looks like a franchise player.
11:05And I think Jason's proven he can be a high-level coach.
11:08Look, I just – I've been reporting for a while that I thought Jason was interested
11:13in that front office job.
11:14That's obviously off the table forever now, or at least in Dallas anyway.
11:19So I wonder what that dynamic will look like over the long term.
11:22But short term, I don't anticipate any coaching change there in Dallas.
11:28I mean, Jason's coming off a successful run two years ago in the finals last year,
11:33you know, coaching the best he could under the situations he had
11:36and developing Cooper Flagg.
11:38And if you're – look, if you're Masai, you're in the development stage of this team.
11:43You want guys that can develop young players.
11:45Jason did a great job with Giannis in Milwaukee.
11:47He's done a great job so far with Cooper Flagg in Dallas.
11:50Now, the flip side of that coin is, like, does Jason want to coach for three to four years
11:56of a team that might win, you know, sub-30 games for two of them?
11:59Like, I don't know.
12:00I don't know the answer to that question.
12:02But I think for now there's just going to be kind of a get-to-know-each-other process
12:06and both these guys will see how it goes from there.
12:09Chris, there's draft surprises all the time, obviously,
12:12but a lot of people previewed this draft by saying it's a five- or six-player draft
12:17and the Mavs right now are sitting at eight.
12:20Does it feel like you're on the outside looking in in a draft in which it feels like
12:26they absolutely have to nail this pick given the lack of draft capital they have in years to come?
12:32Yeah, I mean, I never really know what that means when people say it's like a five-player draft.
12:37What about the guy that's drafted and is an all-star at 14 or 22?
12:40There's always talent.
12:42It's about identifying the talent.
12:43Now, is the star power really, really good at the top?
12:46Yeah.
12:46I mean, whether it's Peterson, DeBansa, Boozer,
12:49these guys are widely viewed from people I talk to as true franchise players.
12:54So, like, being outside that, if you wind up outside that top three mix,
12:59yeah, that's obviously disappointing.
13:00But I do think you're going to be, if you wind up at eight, seven, eight, nine,
13:04whatever it may be, you're going to have an opportunity there to find a great player,
13:08an all-star caliber player.
13:09It's about hitting on it.
13:11I mean, it seems simplistic, but when you look back at this draft five years from now,
13:17you're going to look at that top ten and see, wow, that guy was there sitting there at nine or
13:21ten,
13:21and we either took him or we didn't.
13:23So, I think there's going to be talent in that draft.
13:26I am intrigued.
13:27Like, I'm going to be in Chicago this weekend, or next weekend, I guess.
13:30And, like, the lottery room is going to be wild in there.
13:33The number of teams that are in that drawing room just desperate to move up,
13:36desperate to keep their pick, desperate to get a pick.
13:39I just think it's going to be a fast day the next few days.
13:42And, Chris, the league still owes us, so they're going to hook us up again.
13:46Wink, wink, right?
13:47I think they got you.
13:48They got you.
13:49Watching Matt Ricciardi, like, to the point of joyful tears in that drawing room last year
13:54was something to see.
13:56So, yeah, that was quite the gift.
13:58Did you have a Rookie of the Year vote?
14:01Oh, you're not going to like it.
14:02Yeah, I voted for Concanipple.
14:03All right, Chris.
14:04Your reception is cutting out a little bit.
14:06Yeah, yeah, yeah.
14:07I feel like, like, Cooper's the better player.
14:10If I was building my team around a guy that's Cooper flagged.
14:12But, like, I'm just, I'm a fan of consequential games and playing in big moments.
14:18So, I, like, Con was putting up numbers for the final two months of the season
14:22on every game that seemed to matter.
14:24And I was at a lot of those games, kind of living in the Boston area.
14:27And I just thought he did, he did, his season, based on what that team had to do
14:32and the improvements they made, I gave him a slight edge.
14:35I'll forever be fascinated, guys, by the question of, like, whether or not that play-in game
14:42screwed Concanipple.
14:43Because I certainly believe there are some voters that were going to vote for him
14:46and saw him put up a stinker against Miami, not play in the overtime, and went the other way.
14:51And I can tell you, people in the NBA office, they're thinking the same thing.
14:55I promise you, you will never have a situation like what happened this year
15:00where these grievances took extra days and kept the ballots away from the voters
15:03before the play-in or after the play-in.
15:06You'll never have that situation play itself out again
15:08because that may have cost Concanipple the rookie of the year.
15:11Man, fantastic stuff as always.
15:13Thank you so much for the time, Chris.
15:14Keep up the great work.
15:16You got it, guys.
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