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00:00A lot of people talking a lot of trash about a lot of these Cleveland Cavaliers, and it's
00:03a big night for Donovan Mitchell, possibly the biggest night of his life, not career
00:09of his life, but there's some trash being talked, but I think it hits home when you
00:15hear from Draymond Green.
00:16First here, here's Kevin O'Connor.
00:18This is a Kevin O'Connor show on Yahoo, says Evan Mobley and the Cavs are soft.
00:23Evan Mobley, I didn't think he should have won defensive player of the year last year.
00:27I didn't vote for him.
00:28I voted for Rahman Thompson.
00:29This year, he's even worse defensively.
00:31He's not as great, I should say, as he was last year.
00:34How does Cleveland, you talk about the hustle aspect, right?
00:37If you have a so-called defensive player of the year, your team shouldn't be this bad
00:42defensively, but he is just not a tone setter on the defensive end of the four for Cleveland.
00:46How do you not have a defensive rebound in the final six minutes of the game?
00:50That seems impossible.
00:52How?
00:55I get very annoyed by Kevin O'Connor.
00:58I also have to admit when he's right.
01:00He's right.
01:02Evan Mobley was talking tough yesterday.
01:04Here's Evan.
01:04Here's the Sheriff.
01:06Folks on the process.
01:07I think we're still in a good spot.
01:09We have home court advantage in this game.
01:11Don't do it, Owen.
01:12Be positive.
01:13Me, personally, definitely got to be more aggressive.
01:15He's doing it.
01:15Attack the paint as much as possible.
01:16He's doing the hell out of it.
01:17You think we're not getting Sheriff today?
01:19It's happening, brother.
01:21You're only contributing to this.
01:23Game day.
01:23We're supposed to be building up his confidence.
01:26It's been five years, man.
01:27You got to build up your own damn confidence.
01:29I got to take the gloves off at some point.
01:31I'm going to go through that tunnel tonight to hear this in his head.
01:34Someone's got to remind him that he was the defensive, reigning defensive player of the year.
01:38Did you hear after the first two games the stuff I was saying that Keith's trying to throw back in
01:42my face right now?
01:43Going, it's not just on Nick and on Anthony, Ken.
01:46It's on you as well.
01:47And I go, you know what, Keith?
01:48Keith, you're right.
01:48I said a lot of strong stuff about Evan Mobley and how he was turning and finally becoming the player
01:53that we thought he was after the first two games of the series.
01:54Now it's a 2-2 series.
01:55And he put in eight points and nine rebounds the other day.
01:58And tonight, Scotty Barnes better check his ass.
02:01I think we got a former crowd around him.
02:03I feel like the first two games, we did a good job of that.
02:05And he didn't get a head of steam as well.
02:07You can't let him get a head of steam.
02:09We got to kind of crowd him, play him to our strength and put numbers around him.
02:14Not make it easy around all their guys.
02:15That's what they've been doing to us, honestly.
02:17So we got to do the same to them and make it tougher.
02:21I don't know what Evan's doing today.
02:23I'm about to leave the show early and take him under my wing.
02:26We got to watch Roadhouse.
02:28We got to watch Roadhouse.
02:29We got to watch Tombstone.
02:31Somebody go to Rick's Ranchware if that place is even open anymore.
02:34Get him a duster.
02:35Get him a hat, some boots.
02:36We got to change your perception.
02:38You got to look it.
02:39You got to feel it.
02:40You got to be tough, young man.
02:41It's not exactly inspiring confidence.
02:42Like, hey, what's the big adjustment you guys are going to make?
02:44It's like, we got to do what they're doing to us.
02:46Yeah, we're going to do those things.
02:47You want confidence?
02:48You want inspiration?
02:49You got to figure out how they've been playing us and how they've been making us stagnant
02:52and figure out the answers to the test.
02:54We got to play advantage basketball.
02:56That's the main thing.
02:57And whoever has advantage at the moment, got to take that advantage.
03:00And from there, it will just cascade down.
03:02You got the advantage?
03:03No.
03:04I got the advantage.
03:05Taken.
03:05The trickle-down advantages, cascading down.
03:08The problem is the test wasn't supposed to be the first round against Toronto.
03:13Even the biggest Cavs haters were like, oh, they'll be fine in the first round.
03:17Like, I was already ready for people to give them zero credit for anything they did against Toronto.
03:22Well, you still are going to get zero credit if they lose the game.
03:24Well, you're certainly not going to get credit now.
03:26Well, here's – it's even worse when – well, there was one clip from some goofball
03:30on some Bill Simmons podcast you were telling me about calling Evan some very nasty words.
03:36I don't know, man.
03:38I don't know if that person would say that to Evan Mobley's face.
03:41It's being sent to us, and I think it's a little bit beyond the pale.
03:45I don't like playing it.
03:46But you guys want to play it later?
03:47We'll play it later.
03:48But I don't want to play it.
03:49It's really strong.
03:50But I think it's an even stronger word.
03:52Draymond Green is a Hall of Famer.
03:53I know everybody hates his guts.
03:55But Draymond Green's a Hall of Famer.
03:57He's won a boatload of championships.
03:58He has been a thorn in the side for not just Cavs fans, for many fan bases, many teams.
04:03He's kind of goofy in his own right.
04:05McCurrell in his own right.
04:06But he's going to tell it like it is.
04:08And here's Draymond Green on the Draymond Green Show, not about Evan Mobley,
04:12but about Evan Mobley's running mate.
04:14Jared Allen seems to get in these playoffs and get really, really, really soft, man.
04:19He gets in the playoffs and turns into a completely different player.
04:22And not for the better.
04:23He gets really, really, really soft in these playoff games.
04:27And I just don't understand it.
04:28Colin Murray Burroughs understands it, though.
04:30He said, I'm going right at your chest.
04:35It's one thing for fat radio guys to say it.
04:40It's another thing for nerdy podcast guys to say it.
04:43Draymond Green's going to the Hall of Fame, guys.
04:46That's one of your contemporaries.
04:48That's a guy who at one point was a defensive stalwart.
04:53In so many ways, on the floor, should be a guy that you look up to because of the success
04:58that he's had.
04:59And he's calling you soft.
05:02And I know that there's Cavs fans out there that hate it.
05:05But that's what's being said.
05:07And you can tell me all the...
05:08And I agree with you about the series last year against Indiana.
05:11I didn't think that they were soft in the series against Indiana.
05:13But you have a label on you.
05:14And this is Draymond Green watching you saying, yeah, you're soft.
05:17Playing soft.
05:17Jared Allen's playing soft.
05:18There was...
05:20I'll say, against Indiana, there was some...
05:22One thing to hear me say it.
05:22It's another thing to hear him say it.
05:23There was some mentally weak stuff, I thought, that did go down.
05:27But they were injured and all that.
05:28So I was willing to give some of that a pass.
05:31Yeah, but you know what they were?
05:32After we talked to Joe Varden last week and after the article that he penned a month ago,
05:37that they were tired of hearing about injuries.
05:39So who keeps using injuries as an excuse around here?
05:42Well, it's not...
05:43Injuries are certainly not an excuse in this series.
05:45And you know what?
05:46To Jared Allen's credit,
05:48because I think Draymond...
05:50Draymond is partially right.
05:52I mean, Jared Allen,
05:54he was benched at the end of the last game.
05:56And Evan came in and Evan did nothing.
05:58Jared Allen was at least getting rebounds.
06:00Now, he can't score.
06:02He can't finish.
06:03And I do think his injury is bothering him a little bit.
06:06I'm not going to say that's the reason.
06:07They could potentially lose a series.
06:09That's ridiculous.
06:10Your hopes and dreams of going to the Eastern Conference semis should not be resting on the shoulders of Jared
06:16Allen.
06:17But you do wonder, like, in big moments in Game 5 tonight, if there are big moments, okay?
06:25I know Cavs are huge favorites, which I think surprised a lot of Cavs fans.
06:29I don't know, man.
06:30You hear Evan Mobley there.
06:31I think they should be 12-point favorites.
06:33I think they should be 15-point favorites.
06:34But if there are big moments in the fourth quarter, like, what's the lineup going to be?
06:37And what are you doing?
06:38Are you going two bigs?
06:40Or are you going to do the same thing you did last game?
06:42I did say on the air, like, after the first two games, I'm like, all right, we're going to win
06:45probably in five games.
06:47You know, but I did say one thing that bothered me was, and some people got mad at me for
06:51saying it,
06:52but I'm like, man, the last quarter and a half, Scotty Barnes kind of took it right to Evan Mobley,
06:56like, right at him.
06:57People were like, ah, it was garbage time.
06:58Okay, but it's continued.
07:01And Draymond's right, like, Colin Murray Boyles is kind of playing young Draymond.
07:05He's kind of playing that way.
07:07And he is going right through the chest of Evan Mobley.
07:09And I know every offseason, we look at Evan Mobley's arms, and we're like, hey,
07:13it looks like there's some more muscle there.
07:16Yeah, but the chest.
07:17The chest.
07:18And certain guys can't really change a whole lot about who they are.
07:22But you know what?
07:23I've seen guys who are a little bit thin in the skin and thin in the chest.
07:27Kevin Garnett was as hard as it gets.
07:30Okay, he was an immensely skilled player, a Hall of Famer in his own right, obviously.
07:34And this is someone who's been compared to Kevin Garnett.
07:35But Kevin Garnett was one of the hardest players to ever play the game
07:38and would fight anybody at the drop of the hat
07:40and was certainly never soft while he played in the NBA.
07:43That is the exact example that needs to be mentioned.
07:45And, yes, he was compared to Kevin Garnett when he first came out.
07:48You were right about that.
07:49So you can't tell me that you had guys who kind of goofed around at the beginning of the series,
07:55took it on the chin.
07:56I'm talking about Toronto here, and all of a sudden they're playing hard.
07:58You can't tell me that I can't turn around and make my team play harder
08:01or make my team play tougher then.
08:03Because they got it in them where, hey, man, the only way you're going to win this series
08:07is if you go right at them.
08:08And they're going right after us, and they slopped up the game on Sunday.
08:11And who lost the game?
08:12Who wasn't able to have poise with an eight-point lead with under four minutes left to go?
08:17Who wasn't able to have poise closing out the first half?
08:20Who wasn't able to do it?
08:22It wasn't the team that's been to the playoffs for the first time in four years.
08:25That's the killer.
08:26It's the team with the most expensive roster in the NBA.
08:29That's the killer.
08:29And that's why I'm holding them accountable for it.
08:31So, no, the series isn't over tonight.
08:33You're the better team.
08:35You better act like it.
08:36Because I can't deal with this moving target crap.
08:39I'm hearing my friends go after each other.
08:41I hear a bunch of people who call themselves Cavs fans
08:44telling us that we are wasting our breath.
08:46You have an all-time low of faith with this fan base right now on this team.
08:50And why?
08:51It's because Hall of Famers are calling you soft.
08:54That's why.
08:55We have bosses at the station sending us videos of their son being more physical
08:59at soccer practice last night than Evan Mobley.
09:01That's what we're getting.
09:02Shaden Freud is not supposed to make us feel better.
09:05You wanted to ask a lot of people.
09:08The rest of the East struggling.
09:10Orlando is up 3-1 on Detroit.
09:13And they could end it tonight.
09:14Boston lost last night again.
09:16It's a 3-2 Boston lead against the Philadelphia 76ers.
09:21The rest of the East is struggling.
09:22It doesn't make me feel any better.
09:23We've got to take care of our business.
09:24This would have been – this is something that a lot of people thought
09:27should be a rather easy series.
09:29I still pick Cavs in five.
09:31I thought gentlemen sweep and here we are 2-2.
09:33And a lot of people are kind of holding on tight about what this series is going to do
09:38to the point where you said if they lose tonight – I don't know if you're being facetious
09:42because you're going to have to stand for it now.
09:44If they lose tonight, you said you're not going to watch game six.
09:47Well, put it this way.
09:49This is a team that I tried to fight off all the criticisms, say, well, here's why it's going to
09:56be different.
09:56Look at the East.
09:58This isn't Boston with Porzingis and Horford and Holiday.
10:01They're not as good as they were.
10:03Tatum's coming off the injury.
10:05Detroit, I never believed in them.
10:06Now, I didn't know if they would lose in the first round.
10:09And right now, they are on the brink of elimination tonight.
10:11So, I walked through the whole process, the nicks of not believing in the other teams,
10:16and then looking at the Cavs and saying, hey, it's year five of Evan.
10:20Look at how he's played since the All-Star break.
10:23He's shooting 60% from the floor.
10:25He's back to some of his great defensive prowess.
10:28And here's the one thing that I tried to reject throughout the whole thing.
10:33I tried to reject that the mental weakness stuff of years past was going to come back this year.
10:40And I laid out the whole reason why I thought it was going to be different.
10:44It's back, baby.
10:45And how, yeah, Harden's had the bad game sevens, the final games of the year.
10:50But one thing Harden has done is had these monstrous playoff games.
10:53All right, Donovan Mitchell, he's had monstrous playoff games in the opening series, especially.
10:58Look at what they did to the Miami Heat last year.
11:00The Toronto Raptors have not been able to hone their playoff skills over time.
11:09They're a newbie onto the scene.
11:11They're not going to understand what the playoffs are all about.
11:14And then the two games in Toronto just made me eat my words on so much of that.
11:20Well, I'm going to tell you this.
11:21I said this.
11:22I want to talk about this later on after around the AFC North at 8 o'clock.
11:26You and I both said, I thought if they win or lose tonight, the series is over.
11:31If they win, I think the series is over.
11:32If they lose tonight, I don't, excuse me, I don't think the series is over.
11:36You think it's over, win or lose.
11:38I'm like, well, I can't say that.
11:40If they win, and Keith had brought up, and I think he's right, that, well, what if they
11:44go out and they lose game six?
11:45You're telling me you're still going to be confident in game seven?
11:47And I went, you know what?
11:48I think I'm talking myself into it.
11:50I think I'm trying to talk myself into something that isn't true.
11:53Because you go back to Toronto, what would have made me really confident that this team
11:57was different had they gone up there and always sat there and talked about, man, atmosphere,
12:01it's going to be a loud place.
12:02You know, they haven't been to the postseason in four years.
12:04This is going to be like the first time we went to the postseason after a while off trying
12:08to get this team together.
12:09It's going to be a loud place.
12:10And they laid an egg in the second half.
12:12Well, they were up eight with four minutes left.
12:14That's the crazy thing.
12:15I'm talking game three.
12:16I'm talking game three.
12:16Game four, game four, they were up.
12:20And when you go on the road, and maybe Toronto's a better team than I'm giving them credit
12:25for, all right?
12:26But I think that you should be a much better team than Toronto.
12:29When you go up there and you lose, it gives you a bad feeling.
12:32Because it's like, all right, are you soft?
12:35Can you not deal with the outside noise?
12:37Can you not deal with an opposing fan base being tough?
12:40Because this is Toronto.
12:41What are you going to do in Boston?
12:43I mean, hell, we're talking about the Eastern Conference Finals here.
12:45Well, we've got to crawl before we walk.
12:46You can't do this against Toronto.
12:48What about Orlando?
12:49I don't know Orlando being a great fan base, a great sports town.
12:54But I'm sure that the Orlando Magic are the only thing they really got going there.
12:58I know you got Jacksonville for like the next year or two.
13:00But it's the only thing they really got going there.
13:02I'm sure those fans are going to be loud, considering that they're a surprise.
13:05So you can't handle these fans in different places?
13:08And I'm supposed to say that you're an NBA Finals team?
13:10I penciled you into the Finals, and this is how we react.
13:12So there's a little bit of me trying to talk myself into it, because you just should be better.
13:17You should be better than this.
13:19Well, I said it last year.
13:20And what's the reason?
13:21Everybody's saying you're soft.
13:22It's not like you're being outclassed.
13:24This is why, real quick, this is why I could live with losing to Boston, because it's like,
13:28hey, it's Jason Tatum.
13:29It's Jalen Brown.
13:30These are two exceptional basketball players.
13:32They might just be better than you.
13:33But losing to Toronto, why do you lose to Toronto?
13:37Why do you lose to not Indiana?
13:39Indiana was a great basketball team.
13:40Why do you lose to Toronto?
13:41Why do you lose to the Knicks?
13:43They're going through your chest, the words of Draymond Green.
13:46And that is something that a Cavs fan can't handle, and I don't blame them.
13:49I had a legitimate deja vu when you were talking about how last year, Indiana and their coaches
13:55kind of alluded to some pressure points, some pain points that they thought they could
14:00inflict on the wine and gold, and you saw how it ended.
14:05Again, they had injuries and all of that, but there were some things mentally that I
14:09was nervous about.
14:10And then to see it come right back in those Toronto games, I would have thought our team
14:15would be so high-flying after being up 2-0 and then looking at the bracket and just seeing
14:20the C's part that all Donovan Mitchell has talked about this entire time was how this
14:27team was different, how he felt like this group, he was the most optimistic he had ever
14:31been, and then he threw up the clunkers.
14:34Like, it wasn't his teammates.
14:35That is what was more alarming to me than anything else.
14:402-1-6-4-7-4-0-92.
14:42Let me get to Thomas and Shaker Heights.
14:44Remember, we got around the AFC North coming up at 8 o'clock.
14:46Pony will join us.
14:47Are the Steelers turning into the bronze?
14:49I didn't ask that question.
14:50A Steelers fan did.
14:52Let me get to Thomas and Shaker.
14:53You're first up on the fan.
14:54Hello, Thomas.
14:55Hey, Ken.
14:56Hey, Lama.
14:56Hey, I'm a little bit more calm than I was the other day after that loss, but I will
15:00say I'm still agitated with Donovan Mitchell.
15:03You know, when we traded for Donovan Mitchell back in 2022, we thought to ourselves, hey,
15:08we have this team.
15:09All we need is a superstar.
15:11You know, we know what it takes to be a superstar in the city.
15:14And I can't help but get emotional when I read the Kevin Love tweet and think to myself,
15:19man, Donovan, you're playing in the same city that that 6-7 Boyd from Akron played in.
15:25And that's my standard.
15:26I'm sorry.
15:27I just have that standard.
15:28When you're up by, what, eight points or four minutes left in the game, you have to
15:32close the game out.
15:33And then you come back to game five in Cleveland and you play the Kendrick Lamar song.
15:37It's over.
15:37Well, that's...
15:38See, that's not even my standard.
15:40I can't compare Donovan Mitchell to the greatest to ever do it.
15:42Well, you better try.
15:43Well, no, no, no, no, no.
15:44Hold on, hold on, hold on.
15:45Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, when they got LeBron back, it was, hey, man, this is a finals team
15:50or bust.
15:51You got to the finals four straight years.
15:52Now, they won one of them, which is a hard-ass thing to do.
15:55But we expected to go to the finals.
15:58Does anybody expect this team to go to the finals?
16:01I should still be able to expect you to get out of the first round against Toronto for crying
16:06out loud.
16:07But, Ken, we gave Donovan Mitchell, if not as much, if not more, as much as we ever gave LeBron.
16:14Because he needs more.
16:15Because he needs more.
16:16We gave him so much.
16:18When are we going to start realizing that we have the wrong superstar?
16:22We gave him DeAndre Hunter.
16:23He fired a coach.
16:24We gave him a Hall of Famer.
16:26I don't think he's the wrong superstar.
16:28It's just, but if you hold him to the same standard as LeBron, I'm sorry, you're not going
16:31to be happy.
16:32LeBron is 41 years old.
16:34He's still doing unbelievable things in the postseason, in minutes that matter, against
16:39teams that matter, without main players on his team.
16:42That is a freak of nature.
16:44Donovan will not, and has never been able, to do the same thing that LeBron James does.
16:48So, I'm sorry, Thomas.
16:49If you're holding him to LeBron James' standard, that's just not being realistic.
16:53I think I'm trying to be realistic here.
16:55I think he's more of a, I don't think he could ever be like on LeBron's level.
16:59But, you know, we think of players like Dwayne Wade or that next year under.
17:03That's why I expect Donovan Mitchell to be.
17:05But that's the hardest.
17:06That's fair.
17:07The hardest part about this league is that he's been a top 10 player since he has been
17:12here.
17:13He's got an MVP vote.
17:14He was first team All-NBA last year.
17:17This is kind of as good as you could possibly procure it.
17:21You know how hard it is to get the guys that are at another tier above Donovan Mitchell?
17:27Like, you might be able to get the Jalen Brunsons and Donovan Mitchells of the world in trades,
17:32but that's it because teams aren't giving up the Shea Gilgis-Alexander's.
17:36That's exactly the issue that we're looking at here is that if they lose this game tonight,
17:41you're saying that this is the biggest day of his life.
17:43Now, game six could end up being the biggest day of his life, and then game seven could
17:46be the biggest day of his life.
17:47Because if you lose this series, you're not number one anymore, and if you want out,
17:52you're going to go be a passenger somewhere.
17:54The whole you leading a team, you being in that upper echelon type of player, leading a
17:59team to a finals, being maybe more of an undersized guard, he's bigger than Allen Iverson.
18:05I'm using examples.
18:06A Steph Curry, those type of guys, that conversation's over.
18:10You can go be a helper with someone else.
18:12That's what stares you in the face right here tonight.
18:15That's what makes tonight so big.
18:17That's why I'm kind of agreeing with you how big a night this is.
18:19This underscores one of the biggest problems that I have noted in this series is that who
18:27were they hoping would be the helper in year five?
18:30Evan.
18:30Who has it had to been?
18:31Who has it had to be?
18:32James Harden.
18:33James Harden.
18:33Jared Allen at times.
18:35But that's when they traded for James Harden.
18:37You know, I thought to myself, hey, I think Harden is a upgrade over Darius Garland.
18:42And I will go to my grave and say exactly that.
18:45I can't even imagine Darius Garland in this physical series.
18:48I can't even imagine him.
18:49At the same time, Evan Mobley was supposed to be that guy.
18:55James Harden has had to be that guy.
18:57And any team that is centered around James Harden as being that guy, you kind of know
19:03the history.
19:04Are you feeling pensive tonight?
19:05Or do you think that people need to calm down?
19:072-1-6-4-7-4-0-0-92?
19:09Because we're saying some really strong.
19:11I do not agree with what Thomas said about comparing him to LeBron.
19:14It's incomparable.
19:15And I think that that's an impossible standard.
19:17I don't know if there's not going to be anybody in our lifetime that's going to be like that
19:22guy to play for this basketball team.
19:24I don't believe so.
19:25We can't make that comparison.
19:27But I can compare him to other great players around the league.
19:30I can compare him to other players of his stature throughout history and say, hey, it's
19:35on you now.
19:38I wanted to defend him when he was in Utah.
19:40I thought it was early to say those sort of things.
19:43Now, hey, man, you're getting closer to 30.
19:46It's coming down to it now, man.
19:47You can't do it with this team.
19:48You can't get out of the first round with this team.
19:50That's it.
19:51You might be able to get to the finals with somebody else, but you ain't going to be the
19:54guy that is the leader on that team.
19:56It's going to be somebody else.
19:56You're going to help.
19:58So as uncomfortable as it is to say, and as crazy as it sounds, yeah, maybe it is the
20:04biggest day of his life tonight.
20:07And then the next game in Game 6 on Friday, and then Game 7 if you have to go that
20:12far.
20:12Hopefully you don't.
20:13So, I got to give it to you.
20:13Bye-bye.
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