- 2 days ago
Seth and Sean dive into some of the clips they didn't get to of and about the Texans' draft picks, including one that sparks an education as to the differences between a bbq and a cookout.
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00:00I still think there's plenty of runway to get excited about this draft class for the Texans.
00:04The draft just finished up over the weekend.
00:06Keelan Rutledge, Caden McDonald, the two crown jewels of the class,
00:10and then Marlon Klein is probably, I would say,
00:14if we were giving out superlatives for this draft class, Seth,
00:16I would say Marlon Klein, most polarizing of all the picks in this.
00:21Yeah, just because he was so far down on a lot of people's boards.
00:26The more I listen to some of the plugged-in draft guys after the draft,
00:32a lot of them are, you know, with no specific team they're sticking up for,
00:38are just saying, man, it was really all over the place with a lot of the positions this year
00:43in terms of how different teams were feeling about different players,
00:45and then especially with the tight ends.
00:47It was almost, maybe, it was like a poor man's version of what it was with the edge rushers.
00:53Remember there was just that big blob of edge rushers that looked like they could be second-round picks?
00:58Yeah.
00:58With the tight ends, I think there was this big blob of tight ends
01:02that people thought might be second through fifth-round tight ends,
01:06and people were all over the place with them.
01:07So I get the people who are skeptical of that pick.
01:12I do see what the Texans see in Klein.
01:18So it's going to be fun to watch, obviously.
01:20No, it will, and it is something to watch in camp, for sure.
01:24I think most of the, look, most of the people criticizing the pick
01:28probably didn't know Marlon Klein existed before the pick was made.
01:32You know, most of the people.
01:33Like, the average person listening to this show isn't scouring big boards for them.
01:38Some of you do.
01:38I get it.
01:39If you do, then great.
01:41I think people are more upset at the notion of a 59th overall pick being a project
01:48than they are angry with Marlon Klein personally.
01:51Like, they want 59 overall to be somebody who they feel is a slam dunk to contribute this year.
01:57Yeah.
01:57And it feels like from all the rhetoric surrounding him that he's more project than he is.
02:01But who knows?
02:02He's more project than he is immediate contributor.
02:05The part that's interesting to me, and it's also the thing that makes me nervous,
02:09is if you look at the Jaguars who went way outside the box with a lot of,
02:14almost all of their picks,
02:16were, like, way against the consensus thought on everything.
02:20I do wonder if some of the teams, like the Rams, like the Texans, the Jaguars,
02:26that have a little bit more of an analytical bent to them,
02:30if some of it is based on just the GPS data
02:33and the way that you can measure guys' functional athleticism,
02:38that they value that a lot more than the traditional stats and everything.
02:42So there might be an athletic upside to Klein that perhaps doesn't necessarily show up
02:47in the measurables,
02:48and especially because he didn't play nearly as much college football
02:51as a lot of those other guys.
02:53You made a point about Marlon Klein earlier in the show where you said,
02:56look, it's either going to be the Texans are either going to come out looking really,
02:59really smart or really, really stupid on that pick.
03:02You know, we'll see what the rest of the draft says.
03:04That was Gladstone's whole draft.
03:07Yeah.
03:07He got, we cited the GPAs.
03:11There's a Twitter account that compiles all the report cards out there on draft grades.
03:18And there's, you know, however many, there's 25 different report cards out there.
03:22They go through the exercise of compiling them
03:24and then coming up with a grade point average for each GM.
03:28And Nick's was, Nick Casario's GPA was a 2.63.
03:31It was kind of down the list.
03:33I wasn't surprised.
03:34I like the class, but we know why, you know,
03:36we know that when you diverge from the big consensus boards out there
03:39and you don't have multiple first-round picks, it's harder to be high up like that.
03:45Gladstone got a 1.34.
03:47A 1.34.
03:49You know how hard it is to get a, to have, you know how hard it is to have everybody
03:53think,
03:54like everybody, think your drafts suck to the extent that that is not just a failing grade.
03:58Like, that is a massive failing grade.
04:00Sean, and that's, look, that's the path that genius sometimes takes,
04:04is that people are going to call you an idiot when you're saying things that they're not ready for.
04:09The road less traveled.
04:10It's also, ironically enough, the path that idiots take.
04:15So if the initial path of an idiot or a genius, they look very, very similar.
04:21A whole lot of people shouting at them,
04:22You're so dumb.
04:24But then at some point, the genius ascends.
04:27So we'll see with Gladstone.
04:28Oh, my God.
04:29Which, when the path diverges in the wood, which path will he take?
04:36Oh, you know which one I'm rooting for.
04:39Yeah.
04:40You know which one I'm rooting for.
04:42Dunceville.
04:42Yes, Dunceville, indeed.
04:44We're on the road to Dunceville.
04:45Indeed.
04:46All right, let's hear from some folks on some of the Texans' picks.
04:49Keelan Rutledge, the first-round pick.
04:51You know, that's the big one.
04:54Yeah.
04:54Here was, you pulled some of these.
04:56This is Brock Huard, who does radio in Seattle.
04:58So some of the things he's talking about in here,
04:59he's talking specifically about 12 guys that he identified before the draft
05:04that he was really interested in, that he'd love the Seahawks to draft.
05:09And the first guy he talked about was Keelan Rutledge.
05:12And I'm going to start number 12 with a right guard.
05:15His name is Keelan Rutledge.
05:18Offensive guard, and not just a guard, a right guard,
05:21with 43 starts for the rambling wreck at Georgia Tech.
05:27You know what they do at Georgia Tech, Salt?
05:28They run the freaking ball.
05:30And they move people.
05:31And Keelan Rutledge, you're talking about one of these guys that's not,
05:35he's not first round.
05:37I don't think he's, if you took him at 32, it'd be a bit of a reach.
05:41And there are some other guys, but what do I love about him?
05:43He's 6'4", or he's 16.
05:45He's not short, squatty little arms.
05:47He's 32 and a half.
05:48He jumped 32 inches.
05:52Yeah, 32 and a half inch arms.
05:53He jumped 32 on his verti.
05:55Ran about a five flat.
05:56But what I love is he's unapologetically a guard.
05:59And he's missing just one G.
06:02He's missing one G, or you could spell rugged in his last name.
06:06And you're going to hear me use that adjective a lot.
06:09If you're at the line of scrimmage, you know what I want?
06:11I want really nasty rugged.
06:12And this is the toughest dude in the draft.
06:15Multiple people told me that.
06:16Give me the nastiest, meanest, fire-breathing, rip-your-head-off,
06:22unapologetic about it.
06:23It's Keelan Rutledge.
06:25So Huard is a you-can't-spell-blah-blah-blah without blah-blah-blah guy.
06:31I debated whether to leave the dad joke in or not.
06:33Oh, no, you know I'm glad you did.
06:35No, but so what I did yesterday is I went back and I kind of looked at all the pre
06:39-draft
06:39analysis of various people on some of the Texans draft picks.
06:42And the thing that kept coming up as a common theme with Rutledge was pretty much what Brock
06:47Huard was saying right there.
06:49He might have been a lot of draft analysts' favorite guy, but not so much that they elevated
06:56him up into the first round.
06:57Yeah.
06:57And I could see people, you could hear people almost fighting with themselves about, like,
07:02man, I just, okay, this is my fourth guard, but I love this guy.
07:06He's my favorite guy in the draft.
07:07Well, and you can hear him, for those just wondering, like, just to translate a little
07:11bit, the reason why he was saying at 32 there is because, as you pointed out, Seth, he does
07:16radio in Seattle.
07:17They were picking 32nd in the draft.
07:18So that was clearly something that they were looking at him for the Seattle Seahawks.
07:22Yeah, and there were a lot of guys that, you know, I think we'll play Brandon Thorne, who's
07:28kind of an O-line.
07:29He has a website devoted to O-linemen.
07:33That they might have other guys rated above him for traits, et cetera, et cetera, but this
07:38is their favorite guy, and a lot of it boils back down to just the ruggedness, the nastiness,
07:44all of that stuff.
07:45And that's where it, that's where pre-draft, but then especially going back and listening,
07:50like, you can see exactly with what the Texans are, with what the theme of their offseason
07:54has been, it's that they want to be meaner and nastier on offense, and that's why they
07:58liked him so much.
08:00Do you want to hit that Brandon Thorne here?
08:02Yeah, let's do Brandon Thorne.
08:03So just, he's, listen, not the best radio energy.
08:08Just buckle down for one minute.
08:10Because he says good stuff.
08:11Good stuff, okay.
08:12He says good things.
08:13Buckle down for one minute, okay?
08:15Stick with us.
08:16Yeah.
08:16Yeah, so this guy's just a hair below these guys for me, but he's probably my favorite
08:21guy of all these.
08:23I know who he is.
08:23And a very, yeah, Keelan Rutledge from Georgia Tech.
08:27I mean, you watch his tape at Georgia Tech this year.
08:30To me, I thought he had more pancakes than anybody I watched in this class.
08:33Destroyed linebackers.
08:34He was killing them.
08:35Yeah, he's, it's very clear, you know, what he's bringing to the field, and I think that'll
08:40be able to translate to the pro game.
08:42It's just, again, you know, he needs to clean up his footwork and pass protection, but he
08:47had some glaring losses this year on film.
08:50But man, when you watch Keelan Rutledge, the size, the play strength, the power, the demeanor
08:56is all there.
08:57So that's the kind of guy I see, you know, there's going to be some, some clean losses
09:02in pass protection, specifically as a pro, I'm sure, but heavy hands, bad intentions with
09:07the size and the power to back it up.
09:10And I think offensive line coaches are going to love the way he's wired.
09:13Well, you were kidding.
09:14Yeah.
09:17He had several pancakes, and they made me very excited, those pancakes.
09:21I was so excited.
09:22I was near orgasmic with the level of ferocity.
09:26Would you like to make sweet love?
09:30But you heard what he said at the beginning, he was my favorite guy.
09:33Yeah, yeah.
09:33He said wherever he ranked him, but he was my favorite guy.
09:35And a lot of it, as he was describing him, I thought, man, this sounds like Ed Ingram.
09:40This sounds like Ed Ingram.
09:41Like, really tough, nasty, he'll get up to the second level, all these things.
09:44Had some really clean losses in pass protection.
09:48That's Ed Ingram.
09:49Yeah.
09:51There's almost, the Texans are going into this offseason almost defiantly obsessed with
09:58the run game.
09:59And they figure, man, if we have a ferocious rushing attack, play action, it's a lot easier
10:05to pass protect and play action.
10:06We're going to do everything we can to just be really, really good at one thing.
10:10And everything else will take care of itself.
10:13And I think that's probably what they see with Keelan Rutledge.
10:16It's that you, and this is where I like going against the grain sometimes, because that's
10:21what the Patriots were so good at doing forever, is that in a league obsessed with all things
10:25passing, that there are advantages to be had if you are one of the ones that really excel
10:30at a certain version of football, just caveman football.
10:33Yep, yep.
10:35We got one more on Rutledge here from our guy Greg Cosell, right?
10:38Yeah, Greg Cosell.
10:39So between, you know, Brock Huard does radio now.
10:41Yep.
10:42Brandon Thorne, total blogger personality.
10:45Greg Cosell is somewhere in the middle.
10:46Yeah, yeah.
10:47So I give you the, this is our Goldilocks energy level, but also really intelligent analysis
10:51on Keelan Rutledge.
10:52So what I always love, Greg, is guys that, yeah, hang on, that was, yeah, on Ross Tucker's.
10:59That's obviously Ross Tucker on the Ross Tucker football podcast, but Ross's energy is just
11:05unique to Ross and Ross himself.
11:06Ross is high energy, slow talker.
11:09Yes.
11:09So what I always love, Greg, is guys that jump out to you that maybe other people aren't
11:17talking about, I don't care if it's a tackle or an inside guy, was there someone, as you
11:23were watching the tape, that you were like, I love this guy?
11:27Yeah, there is.
11:28And he's from Georgia Tech, Keelan Rutledge, he's a guard.
11:31And a lot of these inside guys don't get a lot of love.
11:34And sometimes they don't look pretty doing their job.
11:37They're not like tackles where you see, you know, the fluid movement and they're one-on-one
11:41all the time.
11:41One of the things that I've learned is, you know, you want to be able to stay in what
11:45they call your cylinder, where your body continues to stay straight, you know, not leaning, not
11:50bending one way or other, not bending forward, you know, because that's where you lose your
11:54balance and your body control, and then you really have trouble blocking.
11:57And I thought Rutledge was a great example of a guy that just really stayed within his
12:02frame all the time.
12:04And he looked like a very comfortable player.
12:06And the other thing, just to mention, talking about online play, is you have to be able nowadays
12:11to climb to the second level and block really good athletes.
12:15I mean, these linebackers are getting more athletic each and every year.
12:18You know, in the run game, if you can't do that, it's really hard.
12:23You know, you can't just be a six-foot-by-six-foot box guard anymore.
12:27You know, those guys are kind of, you know, those are dinosaurs now.
12:30You know, these guys that everybody says, oh, man, they're just fighters.
12:33Well, of course you want fighters.
12:34You want guys who are competitive.
12:35You want that at any position.
12:37But if you can't go beyond that six-foot-by-six-foot box and get up to the second level
12:42and block
12:43athletic linebackers, then it's hard.
12:45And I thought that Rutledge did that really, really well.
12:48And so, again, you know, Ross asked him for a guy that he loves, and that's who he singled
12:54out is Keelan Rutledge.
12:55Yeah.
12:55And everything that he said, I agree with about keeping things within the cylinder.
12:59But the common theme, again, is something that D'Amico talked about last year as the
13:04O-line was improving, but where they still needed to improve was getting to that second
13:08level.
13:08Yeah.
13:08And, you know, working up to linebackers, turning some runs and taking them from a
13:13three-yard run to a seven- or eight-yard run is all about getting up on that second level.
13:17And it's all centered around the run game, and that's what they're focused on this offseason.
13:22Okay, I have two questions for you about Rutledge, just thinking this through, because these are
13:26three cuts that are supremely complimentary about Rutledge, and they make me excited as
13:31a Texan fan to have him on the team.
13:33He's a first-round pick, so inherently, you know how I feel.
13:36Like, I feel if you're a first-round pick, and I think D'Amico's even said this, we're
13:39drafting this first round, it's likely you're going to be a starter for this team.
13:43Okay, so my first question, are you nervous about the possibility of a rookie center out
13:49there?
13:49If Keelan Rutledge is the center, what's your concern level over him playing a position that
13:54is not his normal position?
13:56I guess, oh boy, I would be concerned as a blanket statement, but you just don't know
14:02until a guy gets in there.
14:03And that, it's, I don't, I think because Jake Andrews is already there, and at the very
14:09least you have somebody that's in the system, I think that whoever plays center this year
14:13is going to have to earn it.
14:15I don't, I don't, I think they're, I think they've moved beyond the days of just putting
14:20rookies and unproven guys in at the starting role from the beginning of training camp.
14:24Okay.
14:24So I'm not that, I'm not as nervous about it, just because that's a standard blanket,
14:29whatever.
14:29Some guys do it well, some guys don't.
14:31Okay, the follow-up, if they determine early on that his best position is guard, which
14:36is a distinct possibility, and so the center competition is Jake Andrews, Evan Brown, maybe
14:42Fabecchi is part of that instead of the guard competition, and Keelan Rutledge is not in
14:49your starting lineup to begin week one.
14:53Yeah.
14:54How will you feel about that?
14:55Because I can tell you right now, the text we'll be getting is they drafted a guy who
14:59can't start.
14:59I guess, no, I don't, I'm fine with that, because if we're going to stay consistent with
15:03what we said before the draft, which was, there's not really a spot that's open for competition
15:09for the starter right now, other than at center, and that's the, which, but that, even that
15:16was kind of hazy, because if you're going to draft a center specifically, the guys in this
15:21class would have been later on, and I thought Nick was pretty open about saying, like, we
15:26don't project him to be a center based on a few snaps at the senior bowl.
15:30Sure.
15:30So, no, I, based on what I myself said before the draft, which was, there's not really a
15:35spot on this team where, remember, you're drafting at the back end of the first round.
15:39Yeah, yeah, yeah.
15:40So it's not as, when I'm drafting at the back end of the first round, I don't think as
15:44much, oh, you've got to get a guy who's going to be a starter, because that's when people
15:47make mistakes, and they roll over, when you watch teams that say, we're going to start
15:51this guy late in the first round, no matter what, a lot of times you're forcing the issue
15:56a little bit.
15:57Yeah, yeah.
15:57So I'm cool with that part of it.
15:58I am, too.
15:59It's just, it's, to say it before the draft, when there's not a specific name attached to
16:04that pick, is, it's a little easier to do that.
16:07Like, well, whoever they draft, if they're, and I'm talking about the average fan.
16:10Yeah.
16:12Once you get a name attached to it, and you start listening to everybody get all, get you all gassed
16:16up for this guy, like how tough he is, what a great athlete he is.
16:19Oh my God, big red.
16:20He just, he puts, he wants to put people in the dirt, and then the guy's not starting in
16:23week one.
16:24People, I'm just saying, PSA, people are going to feel a certain kind of way about it.
16:28No, no, no, I get it.
16:28I just don't, I don't think as much this year, because, because they went into the draft in
16:35that good spot where you don't feel like you really, you're not desperate for any single
16:39position.
16:39Yeah.
16:40So the thing about Rutledge, too, and I think we're, there's some room for nuance here, is that,
16:44you know, people point out that, oh, yeah, he's really explosive, strong, et cetera, et
16:50cetera.
16:50He's a better athlete than people think he is.
16:52The reason some people aren't gushing about his athleticism is because he does have tighter
16:57hips.
16:58So when you watch him play, if you go and watch any of his games, it doesn't, he's not
17:02all that fluid in the way he moves, and that's, that shows up in pass protection.
17:06Yep.
17:06Some of his issues in pass protection, I think, were things that are, are very coachable, and
17:11that if Cole Popovich works with him well, that's something that I'm not as concerned
17:17about.
17:18But that was probably the biggest difference between him and some of the guards who go
17:22higher, is that he's, he's kind of tight in his hips.
17:25And he's also, he's not large by modern NFL offensive lineman standards.
17:29He's, he's 310, 315, whatever he is.
17:32But there's a lot, like the, these, these just gigantic, you know, 330 pound guys who
17:38can move are, those are the guys that go in the top 15.
17:41Yep.
17:41Yep.
17:41Yep.
17:42Um, all right, let's hear a few more on some of the other Texans draftees.
17:45We've got a couple of day three guys here.
17:46Here's another Greg Cosell.
17:48Is this from Ross's podcast also?
17:50Yeah, this was, uh, I think we did, oh, is this on Kalen?
17:53This is on Kamari Ramsey.
17:55Yeah.
17:55Okay.
17:55So this is, uh, yeah, this was on the Ross Tucker football podcast before the draft talking
18:00about Kamari Ramsey.
18:01He's an interesting guy.
18:03He's, he's was hurt this year.
18:05So he only played six or seven games.
18:07Um, I ended up watching him last summer.
18:09So I'm familiar with him.
18:10He played safety.
18:12He's another one of those guys that has a lot of snaps with safety and slot corner.
18:16Um, I think he's ultimately his safety.
18:18Um, he moves well.
18:19He's an easy controlled mover, good athlete, you know, not a special athlete, good athlete.
18:25I think he sees it well.
18:26I think he plays the game under control.
18:28Um, you know, he's one of those guys that it would not surprise me.
18:31He could be a better pro than he is a college player.
18:34Cause I just think, you know, and, and I never, I'm always leery of saying in the right
18:38scheme, because I don't know how people see him.
18:41He coaches in the league, but I think he's just a fluid guy who sees it well and could
18:46be a, you know, could be a really nice player in the pros, not a superstar, but like just
18:51a really solid foundational piece of your backend defense.
18:55Okay.
18:55Yeah.
18:56So, uh, the guy that has a better pro career than college career and, uh, from USC reminds
19:02me of Kalen Bullock, you know, I think that the, the USC doesn't have a sterling reputation
19:09for what they do with their football players these days.
19:13Um, uh, so they, I don't think the Texans look at USC like they do a place like Georgia
19:18or Iowa state when it was under Matt Campbell or some of these other places where they feel
19:23like, Oh wow, they really do a great job developing these guys.
19:25So there's upside there with him.
19:27The, um, the, the part about him that I think probably really, really appeals to them is
19:33that there's a little bit of that Jalen Petrie in them that he's played safety.
19:38He's played in the slot.
19:39He can do a lot of different things and he's super, he's super intelligent.
19:43Yeah.
19:43So in being able to kind of find a little niche, a niche for him that it doesn't have to
19:49be
19:49strictly safety or slot corner or nickel linebacker.
19:52Um, he's got an appetite for violence, which is again, a theme of the Texans, especially this
19:58year that the, he's an intriguing guy with upside for a guy that, you know, for a mid round
20:03pick, you don't need him to play right away.
20:05And he's in a good spot where he can sit and learn.
20:07No, but it is good.
20:08It is good to have somebody that can, you can develop as a backup to that.
20:12I'll just call it the Petrie spot.
20:13Yeah.
20:14Cause it's, he's Petrie's more than just sort of a slot corner or a hybrid linebacker.
20:18He does all kinds of things.
20:19If there's somebody you can develop, I'm not going to say he's going to be Jalen Petrie,
20:23but if he can develop to at least plug him in where he's not miles Bryant, that was the
20:27solution the last couple of years was miles Bryant.
20:30When Petrie went out.
20:31Petrie dish.
20:31We're going to see if he can, if he can grow and expand while sitting in the Petrie.
20:37Like a fungus.
20:38Yes.
20:38Absolutely.
20:39What position does he play?
20:39Petrie dish.
20:40He's a developmental Jalen.
20:41Jalen.
20:42He's in the dish.
20:42Yep.
20:43Yep.
20:44I'm anxious to hear this.
20:45When was the last time we played a little Bill O'Brien audio on the show?
20:47Aside from hotkeys where he's dog cussing fans are saying that rookies don't know anything.
20:51Yeah, this is Bill O'Brien on new Texans wide receiver, Lewis Bond.
20:57How does he do it?
20:57He's just a very savvy route runner.
20:59He's smart.
21:01He's got really good instincts.
21:03He's played a lot of football.
21:04He's kind of seen a lot of different coverages.
21:06He's on the same page with Dylan, which is really good.
21:09They work hard.
21:10You guys see him here after practice working almost every single day.
21:13So give a lot of credit to Lewis Bond.
21:14He's one of the best players to ever play at Boston College.
21:17Hold on about it.
21:18One of the best players.
21:19Better than Doug Flutie?
21:20Did anybody follow up?
21:21Come on.
21:22Better than Mike Mimula?
21:24Yeah.
21:24Mimula.
21:27Yeah.
21:28No, you know what?
21:30With Lewis Bond, I was kind of working on some stuff and was kind of casually paying attention
21:35to the NFL draft on day three.
21:36And I saw the Texans had drafted Lewis Bond.
21:39And my first thought was that it was in the seventh round.
21:43And I'm like, that was my first thought was, oh, was this in the seventh round?
21:47Is this a favor to Bill O'Brien to make him look better?
21:51So then when I learned it was in the sixth round, I'm like, oh, okay, it wasn't.
21:56Ben McDaniel supposedly really likes this kid.
21:58Yeah.
21:59He was the one that was kind of reportedly kind of standing on the table for him.
22:02I guess, I mean, it's a six-round pick, so if it works out, great.
22:05If it doesn't, everything you read about him, and I only watched a couple of BC games.
22:09They played Notre Dame and a couple other BC games or whatever.
22:13But, and he's, again, a six-round pick, but the word is he, you know, maybe trouble separating
22:18or if it's mad coverage.
22:19Well, yeah, he's quicker than he is fast.
22:20Yes.
22:20So he's going to have to be a crafty player.
22:22Yes.
22:22Yeah, you would look at him as most likely a slot receiver that understands coverages
22:27and uses leverage to get open and then has really sure hands and that he can be a chain
22:32mover for you.
22:33So that when you've got other guys stretching the field, yeah, just get him and he'll get
22:37you a first down.
22:38Yep, super smart, was recruited by Ivy League schools, et cetera.
22:42All right, a couple more.
22:44I get nervous, though, because Bill O'Brien, I felt like, didn't always understand the
22:47difference between book smarts and football smarts.
22:49Oh, and football smarts.
22:50And O'Brien should have known better because he went to Brown.
22:52That's true.
22:53And I can tell you, going to some of these more academically competitive schools, a whole
22:58lot of guys that are book smart and football stupid.
23:00Yeah.
23:01Just to a frustrating degree.
23:03A really frustrating degree.
23:05Why are you not saying Fitzy when you mean Fitzy?
23:10Fitzy was kind of like, Fitzpatrick was kind of that way, right?
23:12He was early in his career.
23:1440 on the wonder.
23:14Like, oh, yeah, it got better.
23:16Early in his career.
23:16Yeah, well, you always have to remember there's a difference also between intelligence and
23:20judgment.
23:20Yeah.
23:21Yeah.
23:21Lots of people are super smart but have poor judgment.
23:23And like Fitzy in the first half of his career as a quarterback, horrendous judgment.
23:27Yes.
23:28But he dialed it in, partly due to the help of Bill O'Brien.
23:30Yep.
23:31All right.
23:32Marlon Klein.
23:32This was Steve Mench is the co-host of the Todd McShay podcast.
23:38They're both doing the podcast together.
23:40But this is Mench bringing up where McShay had Marlon Klein in his tight end ratings.
23:44I saw a lot of reaches that people thought tight ends were reaching.
23:47And I get it.
23:48I wouldn't have had him come off the board the exact same way.
23:52But it was still, it still went to Deek's hours like we expected in the beginning.
23:59And maybe you didn't identify Marlon Klein for Michigan as a top five tight end.
24:03This guy did.
24:04McShay did.
24:05We knew that he was a top five going into this.
24:07We both really liked him.
24:08Max Clare went after that.
24:09Like Sam Rauch, another guy that we're really high on.
24:12So I didn't think there was as much reach as some other people thought.
24:15I just thought it was a really deep class.
24:17And it proved to be a really deep class.
24:19The two guys that will be saying, I told you so, to all the Texan fans who hate the Marlon
24:25Klein pick, will be in the draft expert community, I would say would be McShay, who had him top
24:31five.
24:31And Daniel Jeremiah didn't have him 59th, but he had him much higher than a lot of the
24:35other guys.
24:36Like Mel Kiper didn't even have him in his top 150.
24:38No.
24:38And I think honestly, when I was trying to be as objective as possible about this, because
24:43I just, I'm raising my eyebrow with the Klein pick because it did go so far away from just
24:48what the, whatever the majority opinion was out there was that you could throw all the
24:53tight ends in a box and depending on what, what their, what your favorite flavor of ice
24:59cream is, uh, that you're going to like some guys more than others, the guys that had more
25:04production and more playtime in college, people are going to feel more comfortable with.
25:08Which is something that the Texans, I think though, I think the Texans like having a big
25:12sample size.
25:13So it is interesting that they're, that they're going all in on somebody that's got very limited
25:18playing time, but that they like for various other reasons.
25:22Yep.
25:23Uh, last one here.
25:23This is Caden McDonald.
25:25This is not audio at all that has anything to do with him.
25:27What's that?
25:27I just say, well, we're on that real quick.
25:29It just, it kind of reminds me of Nico Collins where Nico Collins had a lot of potential upside,
25:34hadn't played football in a year because of COVID.
25:35And I think they thought that Nico Collins had maybe a little bit more untapped potential
25:42or that other teams were going to be afraid of him because he didn't have all that much
25:46playing time and because he had sat out football for a year.
25:49So they thought, okay, maybe there's a guy that you can, in the second or third round
25:52might be a really good deal for you.
25:54Yeah.
25:54Also a Michigan guy like Marlon Klein, uh, Caden McDonald, Ohio state guy.
25:59He was on a, and I apologize.
26:01I don't know who the, who the podcast was he was on with.
26:04Um, but they, this is ESPN radio.
26:07Oh, it's ESPN radio.
26:08Okay.
26:08There you go.
26:09Um, they asked him, uh, you know, guy, guy from the South, Caden McDonald, what's the
26:14difference between a cookout and a barbecue?
26:16You've been in Columbus, Ohio.
26:18You're going back to Texas.
26:20Explain to America the difference between a barbecue and a cookout.
26:23Well, a cookout is when, you know, you, you, it's just real dirty.
26:29It's, it's the real cooking.
26:31Like you're not uncle, just the drunk uncle or something out with the towel, with the
26:34bald head towel, burgers and fries.
26:37No socks.
26:38Yeah.
26:39Listen to that TK soul, all that.
26:41And, uh, uh, I'd say a barbecue is just some regular, you know, everybody come pitch in,
26:46get a bun, some hot dogs, burgers, you know, it's not the same.
26:50That's a fact.
26:51Love it.
26:52There's a massive difference.
26:53Okay.
26:54So welcome back.
26:55Sounds to me just like, there's not a difference in the food.
26:58It's a difference in the vibe.
27:00Yeah.
27:01And honestly, like it's generally a regional thing in the South.
27:06People call it a cookout more often other parts of the country.
27:10They might call it a barbecue having lived in both places or at least multiple different
27:14regions of the country.
27:15I think there's also, there is something about everything that he just said right there.
27:19Bald, bald uncle with the sweat towel.
27:21The towel wrapped around like a swami.
27:24I always think of a barbecue as more of a corporate affair.
27:27Yeah.
27:27You know, a company picnic.
27:28Like, Hey, we're going to have a barbecue.
27:30I feel like you're going to get an email about a barbecue.
27:32Okay.
27:33Where are you going to get a text about a cookout?
27:35Yeah.
27:35Yeah.
27:36Yeah.
27:36Maybe even invitation to a barbecue.
27:37If I had to, uh, because I speak, because I speak multiple cookout, uh, linguistics, uh,
27:44that because of it, that's how I would do it.
27:46Yep.
27:47If it were going to be some kind of, uh, or if it was any kind of formality to it,
27:52I'll
27:52call it a barbecue.
27:53Yeah.
27:54Otherwise it's a cookout.
27:55Yeah.
27:55I feel like the text page would weigh in on something like this, the base power text
27:58line, seven, one, three, five, seven, two, four, six, 10.
28:02Sometimes people try to make it a racial thing and I don't, and I, yeah, there's room for
28:06that, but it is, I think it's more regional than anything else.
28:09What did you call it?
28:10Well, you grew, well, you were all over the place as a kid.
28:12I think we just called it grilling.
28:14I don't, for the life of me, I can't ever remember it.
28:17Anybody calling it anything other than that's, it was expected that if you're going to an
28:21outdoor anything, it's going to be a cookout type affair.
28:24We definitely called it a cookout.
28:25Yeah.
28:26We definitely called it a cookout where I'm, where I'm from, but I, but they weren't dirty
28:31in my, I didn't have an uncle with the swami towel on, you know, like that's, I feel like
28:35I'd rather go to a Caden McDonald cookout than the boring ones I went to.
28:39Mine would mostly be at my, uh, in my uncle's cottage on the lake.
28:44It was always, it was one of my uncles shirtless and with a big, with a, you know, shirtless
28:49and, and grilling, I guess grilling or we're just, I don't know.
28:54It was just, it was more in the summertime.
28:56That was the standard.
28:57That was how we were going to cook food.
28:58Absolutely.
28:59So it was almost the, we didn't even call it any specific thing.
29:02Educate us on the base power text line.
29:04Yeah.
29:04Give us, send in the text, your thoughts on this all important topic of cookout and barbecue,
29:09or if there's any other terms that we should be using, let us know.
29:11Someone texted in, Sean, why are you always hating on Gladstone?
29:14To which I say, why not?
29:17Why are you questioning Sean's hatred?
29:19Yeah.
29:20What are you, what are you, don't hate on his hate?
29:22Have you listened to this guy?
29:24Hater.
29:24Have you listened to this guy?
29:26I hate more than people who hate on haters.
29:27Yeah.
29:28Why are you hating on me for hating on Gladstone?
29:30Put a little less irony in your life, bro.
29:32That's exactly right.
29:33Yeah.
29:34Someone said, we brought up Gladstone's GPA on his draft.
29:37Ha ha.
29:38Gladstone is a derp.
29:40Or derp for some reason.
29:42Someone also is saying, surprise, the Texans didn't get a running back in the draft.
29:46I was not totally surprised.
29:48I was a little disappointed because there were a couple running backs I liked when they
29:53had picks.
29:54They were right in position to get them, but they didn't take them.
29:56This was, by all accounts, not a great running back draft.
29:59Next year is, as John Harris said yesterday, next year's draft is way sexier than this year's
30:05draft was.
30:06Yeah.
30:06Because you've got quarterbacks, running backs, and wide receivers galore in next year's draft.
30:11And thank God for that.
30:12Because let's call it what it is at the end of the day.
30:14I'm excited about who the Texans took, especially the first couple of days.
30:18But man, the lead up to this draft was tough because there were no ne'er-do-wells in there.
30:23All the position groups that were good were kind of the boring positions.
30:27Well, the other thing, too, is there's a little bit of a college basketball-ification of the
30:33draft now.
30:34Where the NCAA tournament, one of the reasons it's not as exciting as it used to be is that
30:38you just don't know these guys.
30:40So many of the best players have played one year of college basketball.
30:44It's not like back in the day when you would have watched these guys for three or four years.
30:49So in football now, you've got guys that have been to three different schools.
30:54You've got everything diluted a little bit because some of the guys that would normally
30:58be coming out in their third year have decided, like, oh, NIL money's pretty good.
31:03I'm going to say make a few million dollars and then try to go in there next year.
31:07So I do think everybody's acting like this dilution because of NIL is going to last.
31:15Like, no, this is a two-year period or so where there aren't as many underclassmen as there
31:21used to be because they stayed in.
31:22But guess what?
31:23Those guys are coming out next year.
31:24You know, so it's a little blip.
31:27Yeah, it's an adjustment.
31:28The guys that would have made it more exciting this year, they'll be in the draft next year.
31:31Now, the trend that I think is going to hold, you know, unless there's some sort of restructuring
31:37of NIL or, you know, just some sort of salary cap or something like that, or if the transfer
31:43portal turns back into something that's a little less of the wild, wild west.
31:46But if this is the environment we're operating in, Seth, there were no, there were no
31:52no FCS players taken in the first three rounds of the draft this year, not a one.
31:57Oh, yeah, yeah.
31:57And John Harris and I were talking about that on day three.
32:00And my hypothesis on that, which I don't think is rocket science, is that's the function
32:06of what the transfer portal, the combination of the portal, the portal being the big thing
32:11because guys can just leave and go to another school, but then add into that the element
32:15of money where they can be lured to other schools.
32:19And what it's turned into is almost like the lineage of football as a sport is almost like
32:27baseball, where the NFL is MLB.
32:29The FBS, which is the power five in the group of five schools, is like triple A.
32:35FCS is like double A.
32:37And then division two and three is like single A.
32:40And these are feeder systems that a lot of guys, you know, it feels like a majority of
32:45the guys at some point level jump and move up from one level to another now.
32:49If you're a, if you're a, if you're a sophomore at some division two school and all of a sudden
32:55you can go make a million dollars to, to go to a big time school.
32:59Yeah.
33:00So those guys that previously would have just kind of hoping they get drafted and that's
33:04where they're going to get paid.
33:05And then, yeah, you combine that with the, the, so that's NIL, but with the transfer portal
33:10where you don't have to sit out for a year.
33:12And that's been since 2021, but now it's all just kind of converged to be the, a much
33:19different environment.
33:20Yeah.
33:20That, that dude, that would be so tough being a head coach at a smaller school or an FCS
33:25school.
33:25If you like, it's hard enough to recruit to those places and then you recruit guys, you
33:30get guys, you develop them to where they're good players.
33:33Yeah.
33:33And now like here comes Georgia with a $500,000 bag.
33:37Thanks a lot.
33:38See you later.
33:38Even like, like in the Ivy league, the argument would be like, Hey, but you're going to have
33:42this degree, et cetera, et cetera.
33:44And you're like, yeah, cool.
33:45So I can get an, so I'll get a better job someday at a company.
33:48I still hate, uh, where I can get a million dollars right now.
33:52Yeah.
33:52Okay.
33:53Yeah.
33:54I'll, I'll, I'll step away from the prestige for a moment.
33:56Well, or just do the thing where, you know, you leave like one semester left over, go do
34:02your football eligibility and then come back and graduate from the Ivy league school.
34:05Yeah.
34:06I always, you know, I'd say, say coach, if I look at the people who have succeeded the
34:09most grandly, it's the people who have dropped out of Ivy league schools.
34:12So I'm going to, uh, I'm going to go ahead and join them.
34:15I'm going to go, I'm going to go found my Facebook.
34:18Okay.
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