- 4 days ago
- #allofus
- #mortgageadvocacy
- #gregsher
The mortgage industry has no shortage of opinions, but Greg Sher believes that progress starts with conversation. In this episode of Ten Minute Talks, Allison LaForgia and the NFM Lending Managing Director tackle leadership, mortgage industry advocacy, technology disruption and changing dynamics shaping the housing industry.
Sher explains why unity doesn’t require agreement, why more professionals need to speak publicly about the challenges facing housing and how the next era of mortgage lending may balance technology with hyper-local expertise. From the future of independent mortgage banks to borrower relationships and leadership accountability, this conversation dives into the industry's current challenges.
#allofus
#mortgageadvocacy
#GregSher
Sher explains why unity doesn’t require agreement, why more professionals need to speak publicly about the challenges facing housing and how the next era of mortgage lending may balance technology with hyper-local expertise. From the future of independent mortgage banks to borrower relationships and leadership accountability, this conversation dives into the industry's current challenges.
#allofus
#mortgageadvocacy
#GregSher
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NewsTranscript
00:09I'm Allison LaForgia, Managing Editor of HousingWire's Content Studio, and on this episode
00:14of 10 Minute Talks, I have Greg Sherr, the Managing Director of NFM Lending.
00:20That is me.
00:21Greg, thank you for joining me today.
00:23That is I. Which one? That is I, probably.
00:25I think it's that is I.
00:26Yeah, my mom will let me know later, even at the ripe age of, yeah, ripe age of 83.
00:32She's still correcting my grammar.
00:34I love that.
00:34Yeah.
00:35Good for her.
00:36Okay, so we're going to jump right into your platform.
00:40You've built a pretty solid following, Greg, and not just as the Managing Director at NFM Lending,
00:47but as a consistent voice on LinkedIn and through your podcast, One on One.
00:53For those who may know your content and might not know your origin story, how did your leadership
00:58perspective evolve into what we see today?
01:02Greg told me I could ask him leadership questions.
01:04Did you say we only have 10 minutes?
01:05Yeah.
01:06All right, let me try and squish this down into like one.
01:10In terms of my voice, well, I've always loved television, radio.
01:15That's my background.
01:16I grew up in a broadcasting family.
01:18My dad was on an ABC affiliate for 37 years as a broadcaster.
01:22Things are clicking for me now.
01:24So, you know, I like the camera.
01:26I like to write.
01:28And that's kind of like my passion lane, right?
01:31In terms of the mortgage and how I use that, the late David Stevens encouraged me to speak
01:39up more several years ago, and I started to do that, and I've felt for years now that there's
01:46been a void when it comes to leaders in our industry advocating for the things that are
01:50important to people that don't have a platform.
01:53So I just started pushing every day, every day, every day, and I think I haven't missed
01:57posting in 700 or so days in a row, including weekends.
02:03And it's been a great journey.
02:05You know, a lot of people have, I think, found their voice through me and others who have
02:09found the courage along the way to speak up for things that they're passionate about.
02:15Incredible industry.
02:17So much grit.
02:19Nobody set out to be in mortgage, but everyone's got a story.
02:22And if you're in this business for any length of time, you absolutely love it and you want
02:27to advocate for it.
02:28So I think I'm kind of in this legacy phase of my life now at 55.
02:32Maybe I have five, seven, 10 years left in the business, I hope.
02:36And my mission is simple.
02:38Just bring as many people along for the advocacy ride as I can.
02:42Try and empower as many voices to speak up.
02:45Now, with that push, what do you think has historically held leaders back?
02:53And what really motivated you to lean into this really public persona?
03:02Great question.
03:03The first one, I think it's fear.
03:05How are people going to view me?
03:06What are they going to think?
03:07Do they think my voice matters?
03:10Is what I'm saying important to the masses?
03:15It's kind of like when you're dealing with a video coach.
03:19One of the things they'll tell you is just don't care how your hair looks.
03:21Don't care about your makeup.
03:22Grab your cell phone.
03:24The same thing kind of applies when it comes to speaking up and being heard.
03:30Push all that to the side.
03:31Don't think about any of it.
03:32Just start talking from what you're passionate about.
03:36And so anyone that's been in this business for a while, they're very passionate about
03:41a handful of things, right?
03:43Or they feel like there's injustice in things.
03:46Like write those five, six, eight, ten things down and start there.
03:50And what they'll find is that they'll get great traction and it will serve as the impetus
03:55to keep going.
03:56And then also find people whose message resonates with you, who you feel like stand for similar
04:02things, feel the same way that you do, and jump in their threads, jump in their comments,
04:07start to develop relationships with them.
04:08And then, of course, show up at more things like this, like The Gathering.
04:13So speaking of advocating for people to find their people or speak up about issues that
04:19they want to advocate for, let's talk about all of us for a second.
04:22Yeah.
04:23It's on my sleeve.
04:24You see that?
04:25The creation of all of us was clearly a push against division in the industry, which I
04:30love.
04:31And I want to ask you, from your vantage point, what do you think real unity actually looks
04:39like?
04:40And where do you still see friction holding the industry back?
04:46Will you ask the question again?
04:47No, because the air conditioner is so loud, I swear I didn't hear it.
04:50So the key word to the whole question got flushed out of the AC.
04:55What do you think unity actually looks like?
04:58And where do you see friction still holding the industry back?
05:02Yeah.
05:03I think unity doesn't live in agreement.
05:05Okay.
05:06I think unity lives in respect.
05:10And so you get real unity at the intersection of change and the intersection of change is
05:18divided.
05:19It's how you go about the conversations where the real unity is delivered.
05:25How do you approach it?
05:26There's a lot of people online that will, not a lot, the minority, but still too many, who
05:30will take shots at people that will engage in some very nasty conversation.
05:35Just because somebody disagrees with you doesn't mean you have to smack them around, right?
05:40And I think unity exists in different viewpoints and pushing the edge.
05:49So you've made this very easy for me.
05:52There's a lot of noise right now.
05:54There is a lot of conversations, maybe even debates, let's say, about various issues in
06:01housing, from credit to supply to regulation and affordability issues.
06:07And you've engaged with some, if not all of it, in a really clear way.
06:15How are you personally parsing through some of those conflict narratives?
06:20And how do you form a point of view that is grounded in reality and not in rhetoric?
06:26These are some great questions.
06:27I'm talking about like grade A, 10 out of 10 questions.
06:30I appreciate that.
06:32Normally, people don't peel back the layers like that.
06:34I told you we were going to get into some leadership questions.
06:36No, no, this is great.
06:38I think I have a circle.
06:40I have an inner circle who I trust, who I respect, and I'll bring issues to them or they
06:47may bring an issue to me.
06:49And then behind that, I'll start to develop how I feel from the conversations with that
06:54circle.
06:55But ultimately, I try and rely on data more than emotion.
06:59Because that's what drives reality.
07:02And it's hard.
07:03It's hard in this business to separate the two.
07:05Because we're all so passionate about this industry.
07:09It's easy to get emotional about things.
07:11You think that you're finally on the other side and cruising and loans are flying in and you
07:18can finally exhale after four years of challenges.
07:23And then lo and behold, out of nowhere, the president who campaigned on being the no-war
07:31president all of a sudden starts a war.
07:34And rates go up and the momentum starts to dry.
07:38Yeah.
07:39So that's that.
07:41So how do you balance creating some of those often uncomfortable conversations online?
07:50And you do it in your podcast all of the time, having both point of view on.
07:55And you manage to create conversation about the issues for both sides.
08:01How do you how do you go about that?
08:03I think it might be the broadcaster in me just having experience interviewing various
08:09viewpoints, having strong viewpoints myself.
08:12I try and be respectful.
08:15Sometimes I lose it.
08:17Sometimes I am not in full control.
08:19I mean, there was an episode of our No Surrender show that I launched a couple of weeks ago,
08:24which will be coming back here shortly.
08:25There was a three week run with me, Jen McGinnis and Kobe Hackleer.
08:29In the second episode, we got into the FICO debate and I actually screamed like I literally
08:36lost it.
08:37So I'm here saying that you have to separate emotions from the data, but it's hard for the
08:43best of the best.
08:44And so you just try and be as good as you can every day and bring as much to the
08:52fore as
08:53you possibly can and bring various viewpoints.
08:56You know, I don't always want to have people on that agree with me.
08:58I want to talk to it's actually a better conversation if you've got counterpoints, right?
09:04Counter viewpoints.
09:05And I try and do that as well as I can.
09:08And then I try, even though I'm disappointed at how I handle myself in that second episode,
09:14I try and stay even keeled and not get too emotional.
09:16I love that you feature alternate viewpoints.
09:20So one of my favorite authors, public speakers is, was Justice Antonin Scalia.
09:30And he notoriously had this really great relationship with Ruth Bader Ginsburg, even though they sat
09:35on opposite sides of the aisle and disagreed with each other very publicly, they would
09:39give each other advanced versions of their dissents or opinions because they firmly believed
09:44that iron sharpens iron and that together, separate viewpoints can make a more constructive,
09:50better stance for both of them.
09:53So I love to see that displayed here.
09:56I think it's something that we've gotten away from recently.
09:59And I do think it's so important to have those conversations with people who aren't.
10:05Like-minded so that you can better serve the industry at large and ultimately the borrower
10:12because that's why we're all here, right?
10:14Yeah, that's why we're here.
10:15There's some very big questions looming over this industry right now.
10:20And I think that there's a lot of fatigue on the origination side, right?
10:24Because everyone thought they were getting to the beginning of something great.
10:27And all of a sudden now, it's a, you know, what's next kind of thing.
10:31Things are better than they were in 23, let's say, but they're still not where we thought
10:36we'd go.
10:36But I think there's a bigger overhang right now in the industry.
10:40I mean, just this morning, Reel took over, Remax.
10:44I mean, you have Compass partnering with Rocket.
10:48You've got cross-country battling UWM for two harbors and the servicing battle.
10:55And there are these bets that are being made that the model, which is the underbelly of
11:01this business, the IMB model, the retail model, could be on borrowed time.
11:10And I'm not sure what the answer is right now.
11:13This is one of these things where you can't look at any data set and come to a conclusion
11:18because things are unfolding so fast and the integration of technology and the race to have
11:25the borrower end to end is real.
11:29But then I go back to, will anything ever matter more than being ingrained in communities
11:37for a decision this big?
11:39And I always go back to, no, nothing I've seen has led me to believe that most people
11:47are just going to want to click a button and get a mortgage.
11:51I think people are going to want to know where the Starbucks is.
11:54Where is the, how well do you know the community?
11:57Is there a realtor that knows where I can shop for my kid or who's got the best soccer program?
12:03Like, you're not going to get that with a direct-to-consumer call center LO that's not even
12:07located in that town.
12:08So Zeb, Flo, and I talk about this a lot because Zeb has his originator's license and
12:14I was in real estate prior to coming to HousingWire.
12:17So we talk a lot about some of the philosophical conversations and the tech enablement conversations
12:24because we both transacted.
12:25And I feel like people do have a very different take on things when they've actually transacted
12:30versus not having transaction experience, even in leadership.
12:33Yeah, I agree.
12:33Which might be a hot take, sorry.
12:37Regardless, I think at the end of the day, we're all still humans.
12:40So I think that there might be some people where you're served, where they might be interested
12:46in that model.
12:46And there might be some people who aren't.
12:48Maybe the first-time homebuyer who is really concerned about how long it takes for them
12:52to get to work versus the schools versus where their kid's going to go to high school
12:56versus what do the sports teams look like?
12:59How far is the local soccer field?
13:01Can my kids go to the park?
13:02Those are all very hyper-local questions.
13:05Where's the nearest veterinarian?
13:06A lot of people have pets.
13:08Something I Googled.
13:09I'll be so honest.
13:10My vet is four blocks from me and my little dog loves her.
13:14It was very important.
13:16So you get it.
13:17I agree with you.
13:18And I think that that is going to be something that is hard to replace in any fashion.
13:24But I want to end with talking a little bit more about all of us.
13:30What are some of the tangible signs of progress that you're looking for?
13:34And what would it take for you to say that the industry has moved forward in a meaningful way?
13:39I think the industry has moved forward in a meaningful way.
13:42I think I see that with the voices that were never heard before that speak up now often, loudly.
13:52I see women advancing in this business at a faster, well-deserved pace.
14:00I look at leadership at various companies.
14:03I think that there are more women in leadership positions at NFM.
14:08Latasha Wadi.
14:09We have Latasha Wadi with Patti Arviello on stage at the gathering.
14:15So excited to listen to their session.
14:16Can't wait for that.
14:17Like here we have a woman, an African-American woman, president of a top 15 retail-only lender.
14:25This is progress to me.
14:27And I'm seeing more and more of that.
14:29I don't think we'll ever, if we ever get to a place where all of us can be retired,
14:35then we probably will have lost our way.
14:38Like there's, we're making good progress, but every day we need to find ways to make, to make more.
14:46And initially when I came up with the hashtag, it was born from the brokers are better movement.
14:53I just couldn't believe that anyone had a slogan like this that was so divisive.
14:57When, like you said, 10 minutes ago, we're all in this business for the borrower, for the consumer.
15:03Whether you're a broker, whether you're a lender, it doesn't matter.
15:06It doesn't have to be church and state.
15:08Why the divide?
15:09Now, I had Anthony Casa on my show a couple of weeks ago, and he, that's where brokers are better.
15:16The idea kind of came from, and you know what?
15:21It was brilliant at the time.
15:24The market needed it.
15:25The broker share at the time was maybe 8%.
15:27Now it's 30.
15:29And so there's a time and a place for all of that.
15:32And I think that the fact that that was retired, brokers are better, and that it had its run,
15:39another indication of progress.
15:45And the more verticals there are, the more platforms there are for a buyer to shop and compare,
15:54be it Rocket, UWM, Cross Country, NFM, doesn't matter who it is, the better off they'll be.
16:04And we need to keep driving to that result.
16:08And I think we're doing a good job.
16:09I think the industry is in a really good place right now when it comes to that.
16:14We have to get costs under control.
16:16That's a fight that we continue to, it's a battle we continue to wage, right?
16:20And you've got the credit conundrum, and it looks like that may be, again, like everything else,
16:26like the brokers are better.
16:27Everything has a run, right?
16:29I think if I had to end by saying if people are looking for positivity, those are a couple of
16:35good examples.
16:35The brokers are better, and FICO's domination, just being able to name their price.
16:42Like everything has a shelf life in this business.
16:46And so if there are things that are really irritating you or you're really upset about, use your voice.
16:54The more people that use their voices in the name of all of us, the quicker we can get to
17:01a result that pushes the industry forward and ultimately delivers great results for the consumer.
17:07And we'll end there.
17:08Greg, thank you so much for joining me on 10-Minute Talks.
17:11Yeah, my pleasure.
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