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The Last Word with Lawrence ODonnell - Season 13 - Episode 31
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00:00In 11 days, Donald Trump will give the first official State of the Union address of his
00:04second term.
00:05But if the polls are any indication, the American public's already told the president what they
00:09think about the state of our union.
00:11And it's a vision, a vision that's going to leave Donald Trump humiliated.
00:15According to multiple, multiple polls out this week, Americans are saying Joe Biden
00:20was a better leader than Donald Trump.
00:22The most humiliating of these polls for Donald Trump comes from his favorite polling group,
00:26Rasmussen, which is considered the most friendly to Republicans.
00:30Its polling director said, quote, if an election were held today between Trump and Biden,
00:34Biden would win.
00:35The polling comes 389 days after Donald Trump stood up in front of Joe Biden on Inauguration
00:41Day and said, quote, from this day forward, our country will flourish and be respected
00:46again all over the world.
00:48Our sovereignty will be reclaimed.
00:50Our safety will be restored.
00:52The scales of justice will be rebalanced.
00:55The vicious, violent and unfair weaponization of the Justice Department and our government
01:00will end, end quote.
01:03Sit with that for a second.
01:05He was talking about a presidency that wasn't his when he used all those words.
01:10But ever since then, Donald Trump's done the opposite of what he said 389 days ago.
01:15We're less than two hours away from the third government shutdown of Donald Trump's second
01:20term.
01:20This one's a partial shutdown, but it's a big department, the Department of Homeland
01:24Security.
01:25Funding is set to expire at midnight as Democrats push back on Donald Trump's vicious, deadly
01:32immigration policies.
01:34And two and a half months later from Trump's operation in Minnesota that saw two American
01:40citizens who were no threat to anyone at all, Renee Good and Alex Petty, killed by federal
01:46agents.
01:47The Trump administration says it's pulling immigration agents out of Minnesota.
01:53The decision was no doubt hastened by what you're looking at in front of you.
01:56Everyday Americans taking to the streets in a bitter cold, coast to coast and saying, damn
02:00it, we have had enough of this.
02:03We've had enough of this.
02:05Many locals, citizens and officials in Minneapolis say they're waiting to see just how thorough
02:10this withdrawal actually is.
02:13The New York Times reports, quote, the Trump administration's pullback of federal immigration
02:17agents from Minneapolis was a political retreat that showed that there are limits to what Americans
02:21will accept as the president pursues his deportation agenda.
02:25The withdrawal came on the eve of a funding shutdown of the Department of Homeland Security, with
02:30a drumbeat of polls showing public opposition to President Trump's immigration tactics that
02:34rose after the fatal shootings of two protesters by federal agents last month.
02:39As Republican lawmakers increasingly worry about their midterm prospects, a few began to offer
02:44critical statements on the issue.
02:46We now know that two ICE officers involved in a non-fatal shooting of a Venezuelan man in
02:52Minneapolis are now under investigation for lying.
02:57MSNOW reports, quote, federal prosecutors are investigating whether two Immigration and
03:01Customs Enforcement officers lied under oath about the shooting of a migrant in Minneapolis last
03:06month.
03:06An ICE spokesperson said the about face on the case, which Homeland Security Secretary Christy
03:11Noem initially called an attempted murder of federal law enforcement marks the latest instance
03:16in which immigration authorities have had to walk back such claims in the face of evidence
03:21contradicting them.
03:22On Thursday, prosecutors moved to dismiss the case.
03:25And on Friday, Homeland Security Assistant Secretary Tricia McLaughlin told MSNOW that a joint review
03:31of video evidence by ICE in the Justice Department has revealed that sworn testimony provided by
03:36two separate officers appears to include untruthful statements regarding the shooting.
03:43Both officers are now on administrative leave.
03:47Today, my old friend and colleague Don Lemon entered a not guilty plea in federal court in
03:51Minnesota two weeks after he was charged with two crimes while covering a protest inside a church
03:57in the wake of these Minneapolis shootings by federal agents.
04:02People are finally realizing what this administration is all about.
04:06The process is the punishment with them.
04:10And like all of you here in Minnesota, the great people of Minnesota, I will not be intimidated.
04:15I will not back down.
04:17I will fight these baseless charges and I will not be silent.
04:22While the Trump administration doesn't seem to have an appetite for any consequences from the
04:26new trove of Epstein files, some people are facing some real world consequences.
04:31This woman, Goldman Sachs top lawyer, Catherine Rummler, announced that she will resign after
04:37her emails with Jeffrey Epstein were made public.
04:40The talent agent, Casey Wasserman, has lost some of his most high profile clients, including
04:44two time Olympic gold medalist, soccer star Abby Wambach, over his relationship with Ghislaine
04:48Maxwell. Yesterday, the former prime minister of Norway was charged with gross corruption
04:53for his relationship with Jeffrey Epstein.
04:56There are a bunch of others, none of whom have been charged with crimes related to sexual
05:00abuse or sexual assault.
05:01But this accountability has not extended to members of Donald Trump's inner circle connected
05:06to Jeffrey Epstein.
05:07Today, the Congresswoman Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez spoke at the Munich Security Conference where she
05:12said this.
05:14I think what we are seeking is a return to a rules-based order that allows us to be able
05:18to
05:18eliminate the hypocrisies around when too often in the West, we'd look the other way
05:25for inconvenient populations to act out these paradoxes, whether it is, you know, kidnapping
05:36a foreign head of state, whether it is threatening our allies to colonize Greenland, whether it
05:44is looking the other way in a genocide.
05:50Hypocrisies are vulnerabilities and they threaten democracies globally.
05:53And so I think many of us are here to say we are here and we are ready for the
05:58next chapter.
06:00Leading off our discussion tonight is Robert Rice, who served as Secretary of Labor under President
06:06Clinton.
06:06He's a professor of public policy at UC Berkeley and the co-founder of Inequality Media.
06:11Professor, good to see you.
06:12Thank you for being with us tonight.
06:13Good to see you, Emily.
06:14Where to start?
06:17There's Munich, where the French have said it's time to be independent of the United States.
06:22There's America, where, as we see, the fallout from Epstein is not the same.
06:27There's an economy that is, if you look at the top, let's start with that because you
06:31studied this stuff.
06:32If you look at the top line numbers of the economy, they're OK.
06:34They're not bad.
06:35Unemployment's pretty low.
06:36We had a pretty good job creation numbers.
06:37Inflation looks like we're getting it under control.
06:40But this economy is wildly unfair and unequal.
06:44And it's getting worse.
06:46Remember, Donald Trump was elected in part because he said he'd bring prices down.
06:51And you had particularly young men in America voting for Donald Trump.
06:57They felt that they wanted somebody who was on their side economically and politically.
07:03Well, what did we just learn?
07:05A new poll of young men shows that most of them feel like they've got a bad deal economically
07:13under Donald Trump.
07:14Many Americans, in fact, the polls are showing most Americans feel that they were better off
07:20a year ago before Donald Trump came to town.
07:25You know, this is this is a major turnaround.
07:29Now, this is a this is something that portends for the Republicans a very bad midterm election
07:36if Donald Trump permits there to be midterm elections.
07:40I mean, you know, this is the man who staged a coup against the United States in 2020.
07:45So I can't predict what he's going to do.
07:47Well, he said he did say, you know, the party in power always loses seats in the midterm election
07:53for no good reason.
07:53So why even have the midterm election?
07:55Which is you can you can write off as Donald Trump nonsense, except there's the Save Act,
07:59which is not boilerplate Republican voter suppression.
08:04This is a whole new level of things.
08:06You and me equally will be asked to provide could be asked to provide proof of citizenship to vote.
08:12This is not a pass, please country.
08:15Absolutely.
08:16Well, let's hope and expect that this will be something that does not get through the Senate.
08:22You can't get 60 votes for this in the Senate.
08:25Right. And therefore, Donald Trump is not going to be able to get this actually enacted.
08:31But it is an indication of the kind of lengths to which he and his Republican lapdogs are going to
08:40go
08:40to try to, if not stop the election, at least make sure that the Republicans stay in power.
08:47I don't think they're going to succeed, but it's something that we all have to worry about
08:51and harden our election processes.
08:55This I want to talk to you about these six members of Congress who went out and made a video
09:00that that is as obvious as the hair that's not on my head.
09:04I mean, they made a video telling people in the intelligence and military community that you are not meant to
09:10follow rules that, you know, to be illegal.
09:13That's a fact that everybody who's in the military and the intelligence community knows that Donald Trump said that they
09:18should be punished, perhaps by hanging there.
09:23They continue to go after these these six people.
09:25A grand jury, by the way, failed to indict.
09:27They said this doesn't this isn't even worth a trial.
09:30I think that's very impressive and important, Ali.
09:33Grand juries.
09:34I mean, people in this country don't pay a great deal of attention to grand juries because they think, well,
09:39maybe grand juries are something like juries in criminal trials.
09:42They aren't.
09:42Grand juries are under the control of prosecutors, federal prosecutors.
09:47So in this instance, Jeanine Pirot, who was the U.S. attorney, she went to the grand jury and she
09:55laid out the evidence.
09:56There's nobody in a grand jury providing the contrary evidence.
10:00There's nobody there in any way saying you should not do this.
10:04That's why they often say a grand jury will indict a ham sandwich because there's nobody on the ham sandwich
10:09aside.
10:10That's right.
10:1099 percent.
10:11Ninety nine percent of grand juries always do what the prosecutors want.
10:15But now we're beginning to see citizens.
10:18I mean, this is analogous to the citizens of of the Twin Cities of Minneapolis and St. Paul.
10:25They are saying no.
10:27They're standing up.
10:28They are feeling their responsibility as citizens to to to say no to this tyranny, this administration that doesn't really
10:39believe in democracy or the Constitution.
10:42These are average people in these grand juries, just like they're average people in Minnesota that are standing up and
10:49they're saying no.
10:51Bob, what do you think about in the midterm elections?
10:54There are there's a good path to success for Democrats in the House.
10:59There's a narrower path to success for Democrats in the Senate.
11:02But it exists when you look at some of these interesting candidates like Roy Cooper in North Carolina or Alexander
11:09Vindman in Florida.
11:10They're careful, regardless of what they're talking about, this administration, what they're saying about this administration, to land on the
11:15fact that this this is still a population that is affected by the economy and by by the unfairness in
11:22this economy, by the rising cost of health care, by the rising costs of goods.
11:26That if how do Democrats approach this midterm election?
11:29We're worried about tyranny and authoritarianism and dictatorship.
11:33But people come out to vote on kitchen table issues.
11:37I think that's exactly right.
11:39I'm not sure that there is a contradiction there.
11:41I mean, they vote on kitchen table issues because they are scared.
11:46They're insecure.
11:46They don't know exactly where their next paycheck is going to come from.
11:50Most Americans really are facing an economy that in many ways, Ali, is a much, much worse economy than they
11:57faced in many, many years.
11:59And that economy has the backdrop of being in and, you know, run by or at least presided over by
12:07an administration that is not responsive to the people, that is not doing what people want, that is putting up
12:13tariffs, making everything more expensive.
12:16So when you I think it's a false dichotomy.
12:18I think most people are going to want to vote on the economy, but the economy is a problem for
12:26them, partly because they feel so powerless in this kind of dictatorship we're in.
12:34That is a good way to look at it.
12:36Thank you, my friend.
12:37Robert Rice is a former secretary of labor under President Clinton.
12:40He's a professor of public policy at UC Berkeley, and he's the co-founder of Inequality Media.
12:44Thanks for being with us tonight.
12:45Thank you, Ali.
12:45All right, coming up, Donald Trump's never-ending quest for retribution faced a lot of roadblocks this week, a lot
12:51of them, because the American people are pushing back, and the courts are pushing back, and members of Congress are
12:57pushing back and winning.
13:03It was a bad week in Donald Trump's never-ending quest for retribution.
13:07One after another, federal courts, juries, America's foreign allies, and even members of Trump's own party pushed back.
13:13On Tuesday, a federal grand jury declined to indict six Democratic lawmakers that the Trump Justice Department wanted to prosecute
13:20for urging members of the military to refuse unlawful orders.
13:24Donald Trump accused the six Democrats of seditious behavior and endorsed calls for them to be punished, at one point
13:31suggesting that the appropriate punishment would be hanging.
13:35All they did was remind members of the military of their legal right to refuse illegal orders.
13:40But 20 Americans who sat on that grand jury had more common sense and honor for the Constitution than Donald
13:45Trump does.
13:46Then on Wednesday, half a dozen Republicans in Congress joined Democrats to reverse Donald Trump's tariffs against Canada.
13:53It was largely symbolic.
13:54It doesn't have the effect of law, but something.
13:58And yesterday, a federal judge temporarily blocked Donald Trump's Defense Secretary, Pete Hegseth, from his attempt to censure the Democratic
14:05Senator Mark Kelly for participating in that aforementioned so-called illegal orders video.
14:10In a blistering ruling, United States District Judge Richard Leon wrote, quote,
14:17This court court has all it needs to conclude that defendants have trampled on Senator Kelly's First Amendment freedoms and
14:24threatened the constitutional liberties of millions of military retirees.
14:27Our retired veterans deserve more respect from their government, and our Constitution demands they receive it.
14:34There was an exclamation mark at the end of that, by the way.
14:37You don't often see federal judges using an exclamation mark, but that ruling actually had quite a few of them.
14:43Senator Kelly called the effort to punish him and other Democrats a warning sign.
14:46In his words, a master alarm flashing for our democracy and something drawn straight from the authoritarian playbook.
14:53It's worth pausing on that, because what failed this week was not just Donald Trump's legal maneuvering.
14:59What failed this week was Donald Trump's strategy of trying to use government power to intimidate political opponents without consequence.
15:08Thankfully, our courts resisted that effort.
15:11And overseas, our allies are moving on without leadership from the United States.
15:15Today, there's this big security conference that goes on in Munich.
15:18It's kind of the biggest one in the year.
15:20It's called the Munich Security Conference.
15:22The NATO Secretary General, Mark Ruta, said,
15:25NATO is the strongest it has been since the fall of the Berlin Wall, end quote.
15:31Which may be one of the dumber things I've heard this week.
15:34Other European leaders were more honest about their concerns with the United States under Donald Trump.
15:39The New York Times reports Friedrich Mertz, the chancellor of Germany, said that under Donald Trump in his second term,
15:44the United States' claim to global leadership has been challenged and possibly squandered, end quote.
15:49French President Emmanuel Macron also gave a defiant pro-Europe speech and seemed to be sending Washington a message as
15:55well.
15:56Politico reports that the French President Emmanuel Macron on Friday called on Europeans to become stronger and the U.S.
16:02to show some respect.
16:03A stronger Europe would be a better friend for its allies, the French president told a packed hall at the
16:08Munich Security Conference.
16:09France, Europe has to become a geopolitical power.
16:12We have to accelerate and deliver all the components of a geopolitical power, defense, technologies, and de-risking from all
16:19the big powers.
16:20De-risking from all the big powers.
16:23What a thing to say.
16:25But criticizing and creating chaos that divides us seems to be all Donald Trump actually knows how to do.
16:31Although Donald Trump is trying to make punishment and retribution a defining promise of his second term,
16:36in a lot of ways, and thanks to some good people, the machinery of the United States government isn't cooperating.
16:42The American people are not cooperating.
16:44The courts are not cooperating.
16:47Lawmakers, some of them are cooperating, but many of them are saying no.
16:51And our allies are forging a path without us as their leader.
16:57Joining us now is the Democratic Congressman Eugene Vindman of Virginia.
17:00He's a member of the Armed Services Committee.
17:02Congressman, good to see you.
17:03Thank you for being with us.
17:04You are a United States congressman.
17:06Congressman, your work right now, your constituents are in Virginia.
17:09That's the work you're concentrated on.
17:11But you are a guy with an eye on the world right now.
17:13And that Munich Security Conference, which is a really important place, had a lot of people whose energies were focused
17:18on what's going wrong in America and how that affects the world.
17:23Yeah, absolutely.
17:25This is an important conference.
17:28American leadership should be fully on display.
17:32But right now, unfortunately, it's lack of leadership.
17:36Right now, as opposed to what the NATO Secretary General said, we are, frankly, in the weakest position, the U
17:42.S. in relation to NATO, that we've been since the start of the alliance.
17:47And we've got a lot of work to repair that.
17:50And having members of Congress from the Democratic Party show up there and indicate that we are still stalwart friends
18:01to the EU and NATO is critically important.
18:04Yeah. And by the way, Mark Ruta, the head of NATO, has got a hard job.
18:07I don't mean to dump on him.
18:09We should be on it.
18:09When he says NATO's in the strongest position it's been, I don't believe that to be true.
18:13But I think the point he's making is that the other members of NATO have come together fairly well to
18:19say we will uphold this remarkable alliance.
18:22That's a good thing.
18:24It's very bad for America that we're not part of that sentiment.
18:30No, you're again, you're right.
18:33And NATO has grown over the last few years between Finland and and Sweden.
18:38But that occurred, obviously, under Joe Biden's administration right now, especially in light of the president's actions in recent months
18:49and threats to to seize Greenland.
18:52And we are in a position where we're become this administration is cozying up to our adversaries in in Russia
19:01and looking for some sort of deal and and and standing against our allies in NATO and Europe.
19:10And that's not where we want to be.
19:13It's it's not an abstraction, right?
19:15Right. Why America needs to be part of NATO and why NATO needs to be strong is not an abstraction.
19:21Donald Trump has said he doesn't think they'll be there when we call NATO.
19:26And I tend to like to remind people we've only the world's only ever called once under Article five of
19:32NATO.
19:32And it's when it's after the the the attacks of 9-11 when America called and NATO answered.
19:39Absolutely. Look, that's the only time Article five was ever actually implemented.
19:46And our allies, including the Dutch, who are the sovereign in charge of Greenland, came and over 26 members of
19:58the Dutch Armed Forces died protecting us.
20:02So it's well past time that we we try to turn the corner and and clearly indicate that we support
20:10NATO.
20:10And a lot of that's going to come from Congress.
20:14It's it's well past time that Congress actually sides with NATO and our allies.
20:21And I think we have a real opportunity in coming months to do that.
20:25And certainly, if not in coming months, then after the election.
20:29And which is why I'm running for reelection in Virginia's first congressional district.
20:35And I invite your viewers to join me in my mission.
20:38Text join to 82923.
20:40Talk to me about Virginia in the in the election.
20:42The Supreme Court on Friday paved the way for state Democrats to move forward with a with a plan that
20:47would enable them to add four Democratic seats in Virginia.
20:52Yeah, so absolutely.
20:53Look, you know, Virginians, common sense Virginians will make the decision.
20:58This is a referendum.
21:01So Virginians will make the decision.
21:03This is not a backroom deal.
21:04This is not a phone call from President Trump to Texas legislators in Alabama, North Carolina, Missouri, in places all
21:14around the country where he's trying to rig the election in order to win the midterms because he knows how
21:20unpopular he is.
21:21In Virginia, the voters get to vote on the new map, an emergency temporary measure to fight back against Donald
21:32Trump's attempts to rig the election.
21:35Congressman, good to see you as always.
21:37Thank you for joining us.
21:37Congressman Eugene Vindman of Virginia.
21:40All right.
21:40Coming up, Donald Trump tried to steal the 2020 election.
21:43He's basically telling us, telling us he's going to try it again.
21:46One of the states he's targeting is Arizona.
21:48The Congressman Greg Stanton of Arizona joins us next.
21:53Hi.
21:54Fresh off her failure in Minnesota, Homeland Security Secretary Kristi Noem turned her attention to lying about our elections, and
22:00she did it in Arizona, where Donald Trump attempted to overturn the results of the 2020 election.
22:07And although the Constitution gives states the primary responsibility for running their elections, Congress also gives authorities and duties to
22:15the federal government.
22:15Now, as the secretary of the Department of Homeland Security, those authorities lie within my department, and the responsibility lies
22:23with me.
22:25I'd love to see her point to some statutory authority, just one thing that gives her that authority, because I
22:32just consulted my little pocket constitution again, and it says pretty clearly that the responsibility for time, manner, and place,
22:37and enforcement of elections lies with the states, but that Congress can make amendments and adjustments, not the executive branch.
22:46Just yesterday, the Trump administration announced that it was ending the ICE debacle in Minneapolis that culminated in the deaths
22:52of two American citizens by federal agents under Kristi Noem's watch.
22:56We'll wait and see.
22:57And today, the Wall Street Journal is reporting on the chaos within the Homeland Security Department under Kristi Noem and
23:03her principal henchman, Corey Lewandowski, writing, quote, Noem has attempted to burnish her personal stardom at every turn.
23:10With Lewandowski, Trump's former campaign manager, at her side, she has staged a headline-grabbing immigration crackdown while sidelining rivals
23:17and dissenters.
23:18She's carried out confrontational operations over the objection of longtime immigration officials who warn such flashy displays would discredit the
23:26department's ultimate mission.
23:27According to two dozen current and former administration officials within DHS, Noem and Lewandowski frequently berate senior-level staff, give
23:37polygraph tests to employees they don't trust, and have fired employees.
23:42In one incident, Lewandowski fired a U.S. Coast Guard pilot after Noem's blanket was left behind on a plane,
23:50according to people familiar with the incident, end quote.
23:54Well, she left her blanket on the plane.
23:57Christine Noem's appearance in Arizona comes as the Trump Justice Department is suing that state.
24:02Quoting the Arizona Republic, Trump's DOJ is suing for, quote, voter registration and election records that the Arizona Secretary of
24:10State's office says it can't legally hand over.
24:12Arizona is among 23 states sued by the federal government over voter data.
24:17Opponents in the states that have refused to cooperate have said the Justice Department is seeking information to bolster Trump's
24:22unfounded claims of a stolen election in 2020
24:25and expressed worry about how the personal information will be used in the future, end quote.
24:30And that's just one part of a larger strategy by Donald Trump and Republicans to undermine the midterm elections.
24:36Last week, the director of national intelligence, Telsey Gabbard, inexplicably appeared at a raid at a Georgia election office,
24:43which is another state that Donald Trump keeps claiming that he won in 2020.
24:47And they were there to seize election records.
24:502020 election records are being seized by Telsey Gabbard, who's the director of national.
24:55That's, you know, national intelligence like spies and stuff elsewhere.
25:00This week, the Republican controlled House passed a bill under pressure from Donald Trump to address widespread voter fraud.
25:07That doesn't exist and would disenfranchise potentially millions of American citizens in the process.
25:13The New York Times reports, quote, it would require voters to show proof of citizenship not only when registering to
25:18vote,
25:18but also every time they went to cast a ballot in a federal election.
25:22It's a show me your papers kind of law in a nation that rejects that mentality.
25:28It's highly unlikely to pass in the Senate.
25:31Republican Senator Lisa Murkowski said she would oppose it and called it, quote, federal overreach.
25:36Today, Donald Trump made this false claim on social media, quote,
25:39there will be voter I.D. for the midterm elections, whether approved by Congress or not.
25:45Donald Trump tried to steal the 2020 election.
25:47He's basically telling us he's going to try it again.
25:51Joining us now is Democratic Congressman Greg Stanton of Arizona.
25:53He's a member of the Foreign Affairs and Transportation and Infrastructure Committees.
25:57Congressman, good to see you.
25:58Thank you for being with us.
26:00Good to be here.
26:01There's a little gaslighting going on about voter I.D., right?
26:05At some point in the voting process, in the registration process, generally speaking,
26:08people have to provide some I.D.
26:11Varies from state to state.
26:13That's not what the SAVE Act is about.
26:14The SAVE Act is actually talking about proof of citizenship, which means a birth certificate,
26:18a naturalization certificate, a passport, or an enhanced I.D., which only exists in a driver's license,
26:24which only exists in five states.
26:25It's a whole different thing.
26:28Well, first off, what the SAVE Act would do is require every single state to hand over voter data.
26:34That is completely and totally illegal.
26:36The Tenth Amendment of the Constitution protects states' rights.
26:39There is no legal authority for the federal government to ask states like Arizona to hand over voter data.
26:45So, number one, that's the reason why the SAVE Act will be found unconstitutional if it ever were to become
26:50law.
26:51Secondarily, yes, it does put very onerous requirements.
26:55Imagine someone you have to register to vote in person.
26:59Imagine if you live in a rural Arizona or a tribal community.
27:03That can be a five-, six-hour drive where right now you can do it perfectly safely via the mail.
27:08That's a simple situation.
27:10What about someone who doesn't have a passport and may not have a certified copy of their birth certificate?
27:16They may not be in a position then to be able to prove that they are a United States citizen
27:22using those particular mechanisms.
27:24That puts a lot of people disenfranchised as a result of not having the proper paperwork.
27:30Millions and millions of Americans couldn't find, utilize that paperwork.
27:34More than half of Americans don't have a passport.
27:37Lots of people can't find their birth certificate.
27:39Lots of people change their name because they got married or they got divorced or for whatever reason.
27:45And the birth certificate doesn't match their car.
27:47We know of these instances where people say, they go to register and they say, well, your name doesn't match
27:51your birth certificate because, you know, my parents didn't know who I was going to marry.
27:54So they gave me their name.
27:55Like, this is real stuff.
27:57And it's all based on the big lie.
28:00Yes.
28:00It is based on nothing.
28:01We have a wonderful voting system in the United States of America.
28:05We have a wonderful voting system right here in Arizona.
28:09Trump won in 2016.
28:12Joe Biden won in 2020.
28:14Trump won again in 2024.
28:15The only one they're looking at is 2020.
28:17And when these secretaries like Kristi Noem are out of favor with Trump, obviously she got fired from the work
28:25that they were doing in Minnesota.
28:28She did a terrible job leading FEMA for the Texas floods.
28:31She's on the outs.
28:33And what do they do?
28:33They come to a place like Arizona and just repeat the big lie.
28:37That's why Tulsi Gabbard was in Fulton County.
28:40She's on the outs of the administration as well.
28:42So what does she do?
28:43They play to an audience of one and continue to repeat the big lie.
28:47That's what this is right.
28:48And then Donald Trump starts floating this idea of this happened in Arizona with the with the cyber ninjas, where
28:53they started talking about Chinese and the bamboo and Italians.
28:58I think Trump suggested the Venezuelans are involved.
29:02You just you just plant these seeds.
29:04I want to remind people.
29:05I think Arizonans understand this very well.
29:07The problem in America is not non-citizens voting.
29:11It's citizens not voting enough.
29:13Right.
29:13Sixty percent of people turn out in presidential elections.
29:15That number.
29:16I would love to be 100.
29:17That's what we have to solve for.
29:18We don't need to put friction in where where no problem exists.
29:22We would be a stronger democracy if we made it easier for people to participate in the election.
29:29Let's make Election Day a national holiday so that more and more people can participate in the election.
29:34Let's make ballots by mail, voting by mail easier for our fellow Americans.
29:40That would get greater participation in our elections.
29:43That would help build a stronger democracy, not continuation of the repeating the big lie over and over and over
29:50again.
29:50That makes us weaker as a country.
29:53Secretary Noem said that Arizona is an absolute disaster when it comes to elections.
29:59I spent a lot of time in Arizona.
30:01And despite what Donald Trump liked to say about the 2020 elections, it's not actually it's not not only not
30:06a disaster.
30:07Voting in Arizona is kind of exemplary.
30:12Well, and actually, she picked the wrong state to make the case for the Save Act, because under Arizona law,
30:18you actually do have to show DPOC, documented proof of citizenship, before you're allowed to participate.
30:24What we don't require is that you prove citizenship each and every time you vote.
30:29Each time, right.
30:30Once you prove you're a citizen, you get to participate in our election.
30:33So the state of Arizona is actually a model state for the exact thing that they're trying to point out.
30:39But what we won't do is hand over that voter data.
30:43That is a violation of the Constitution.
30:46The Save Act would require it.
30:47And that alone is a reason we can never let the Save Act become the law in our country.
30:52And if it does become law, it will be legally challenged and it'll be thrown out.
30:56You think, talking about things getting thrown out, you think Christine Elm should be thrown out, or at least impeached?
31:03She has to.
31:04I mean, she is one of the worst cabinet secretaries in American history.
31:09Everything she touches, she blows.
31:12She screws up.
31:13I mentioned her role with FEMA after the Texas floods.
31:16They were so slow to respond.
31:17They didn't get urban search and rescue teams there until three days after they found the last body.
31:24They could have worked to save lives.
31:26She blew that completely.
31:27Obviously, what we've seen happen in Minnesota, she has no business running a law enforcement entity, untrained officers going out
31:36there, wearing those masks without any use of force policy.
31:40Those tragic deaths were inevitable.
31:42That's a direct result from the poor leadership from Christy Noem.
31:47She got fired because of it.
31:48She got kicked out.
31:49They put Tom Holman in charge of the work in Minnesota.
31:53And now she's coming to Arizona to repeat the big lie.
31:57She's got to go.
31:57If the president won't fire, she needs to be impeached.
32:01I remember this in 2020.
32:03Arizonans are not interested in this.
32:05So you guys will sort it out.
32:08Thank you for being with us tonight.
32:09Congressman Greg Stanton of Arizona.
32:12All right.
32:12Coming up, one top economist is saying that Donald Trump's economy is looking, quote, more like the jaws of a
32:17crocodile.
32:17I'll explain that to you when I come back as Donald Trump continues to lie about the state of his
32:22economy.
32:26In one of the most bizarre, hostile and embarrassing congressional testimonies we've ever seen on Capitol Hill, Donald Trump's attorney
32:33general, Pam Bondi, responded to a question about the Epstein files very specifically with this.
32:42Because Donald Trump, the Dow, the Dow right now is over, the Dow is over $50,000.
32:51I don't know why you're laughing.
32:52You're a great stock trader, as I hear, Raskin.
32:55The Dow is over $50,000 right now.
32:59The S&P at almost $7,000.
33:02And the Nasdaq's smashing records, Americans' 401ks and retirement savings are booming.
33:12There's a great deal to unpack there, just in case you're wondering, it has nothing to do with Epstein at
33:16all.
33:17That's number one.
33:19Number two, the Dow has been on a generally upward trajectory kind of forever.
33:24Presidents generally try to take too much credit for the performance of the stock market anyway.
33:28And number three, that response really shows how out of touch the Trump administration is with American people when it
33:34comes to the financial reality that most Americans face right now.
33:37Forget the stock market for a moment.
33:38It tends to be the purview of America's most wealthy.
33:41CNBC reports signs of rising financial stress, particularly among the middle-income Americans, are warning flags about the U.S.
33:48economy's health in 2026, experts say.
33:50Today, spending growth for higher-income Americans have remained relatively stable between January 25th, January 2025, and January 2026, according
33:59to internal transaction data from Bank of America Institute released this week.
34:04However, spending growth slowed for lower- and middle-income households during that period.
34:10Now, what that is describing, when the rich are doing well and spending a lot of money and making a
34:16lot of money, they're doing like this.
34:18Their line's going like this.
34:19When the rest aren't, their line's like that.
34:22And that's the K-shaped economy, like the letter K.
34:25Those with higher incomes just keep doing better, largely through things like stock gains and home ownership.
34:30If you've got stocks and you own a home, it's been a great year for you.
34:35But everyone else is getting pressed by the rising costs of, well, everything.
34:38And Donald Trump's tariffs aren't helping that either.
34:41Back to that CNBC report, quote,
34:43As middle-income consumers are showing signs of stress, the K-shape is widening and beginning to look more like
34:49the jaws of a crocodile,
34:51said David Tinsley, senior economist at the Bank of America Institute.
34:55The New York Times reports the net worth of the top 1% of households climbed to a record share
35:00of nearly 32% of the national total.
35:03It's going to stop there for a second.
35:051% owns 32% of the national total of wealth in the third quarter of 2025.
35:11That's according to data from the Federal Reserve, which started tracking household wealth in 1989.
35:171% holds one third of all the wealth in America.
35:23The Times continues.
35:24Spending patterns have also split.
35:26Households earning under $75,000 a year are spending less on discretionary categories like travel and experiences than they did
35:33in 2019,
35:34while those making more than $150,000 are spending more, according to the Bank of America Institute.
35:40The economic conditions cultivated under Donald Trump have created headlines like these.
35:44From the New York Times, voters see a middle-class lifestyle as drifting out of reach, poll finds.
35:50Business Insider writes, the K-shaped economy is reshaping Valentine's Day spending.
35:55And the most shocking from NBC News, middle-class Americans are selling their plasma to make ends meet.
36:02The chief economist at U.S. Bank puts it like this in a recent report.
36:05Today, we are returning to a typical pattern of extremely high-income inequality.
36:09It now stands at a 60-year peak.
36:13The worry is not just where we stand now, but whether ongoing developments will worsen the situation.
36:19Now, despite all that, Donald Trump continues to play pretend, saying things like this earlier today.
36:26We just had very good financial numbers, very low inflation.
36:31We brought costs way down, and the numbers were surprising, except to me, they weren't surprising.
36:39I wasn't surprising to him.
36:40Joining us now is my longtime friend and colleague, Sharon Epperson, senior personal finance correspondent for our sister network, CNBC.
36:46She's also the editor of the Money 101 newsletter.
36:48Sharon, nice to see you, my friend.
36:51Good to be here, Ali.
36:53Makes me crazy when people say costs are way down.
36:57It just makes me crazy.
36:58Because inflation is the rate at which prices go up.
37:02They go up.
37:03You'd like your wages to go up more than inflation.
37:06You'd like your wages to go up more than your rent goes up or your whatever.
37:09But Donald Trump, when he says prices have gone down, there's no prices have gone down.
37:15No, that's not what people are feeling.
37:17What people are feeling is a greater strain than they have seen in some time.
37:21In fact, when you talk about people who actually go to credit counselors to get counseling because they're having trouble
37:27managing their finances,
37:29the National Foundation of Credit Counseling is forecasting that financial stress will reach an all-time high in the first
37:36three months of this year.
37:37And what they're seeing is mostly middle-income consumers who are thinking that this is the time when they're supposed
37:45to be doing well in their jobs.
37:46Everything should be – they should be able to cover day-to-day expenses.
37:50And because the wages are not keeping up with the inflation that they're experiencing, their personal inflation, they are seeing
37:58themselves struggling.
37:58And that is what is really contributing to what David Tinsley is calling this jaws of crocodile shape for the
38:05economy, not just a case shape.
38:07We're seeing a divergence between high and middle income that is greater than we've seen, according to Bank of American
38:12Institute, greater than we've seen since early 2022.
38:15Yeah, you and I have been in the business for a long time.
38:18I've never heard the jaws of a crocodile-shaped economy.
38:21This is important because the thing that made America great was the middle class, the idea that there was this
38:28strong middle that can pay into the system,
38:31that can fund things like Social Security so that when people are older, there's money to pay back.
38:37They can help those who have fallen between the cracks, the poor and working class in America.
38:44When you hollow out the middle, you do do great damage to your economy in the long term.
38:49Because if you're really rich, it doesn't matter, right?
38:51You can make do with whatever you want.
38:53Absolutely.
38:53But it's the middle class that builds the highways.
38:55It's the middle class that builds the infrastructures and the Hoover Dam and the bridges and tunnels that we live.
39:01It's their money that pays for that.
39:05And it's their money that they're now not having and having to borrow to pay for basic necessities and to
39:11pay for experiences that they may still want to have.
39:15And then the problem becomes they're not used to having this, this kind of revolving debt that it's just a
39:20downward spiral that they can't get out of.
39:23Their incomes are not keeping up with it.
39:25And so they're having to make choices.
39:27Do I buy just cheaper items for everyday things?
39:29Do I do buy in bulk?
39:30Do I do, you know, what people are putting on their sweethearts this year for Valentine's Day is buy in
39:37bulk.
39:38They're putting in things about their rents.
39:41Let's split the rent.
39:42Like, this is the way people are handling their relationships because the financial stress and strain that they're feeling is
39:48translating into every part of their lives.
39:51And so this is definitely having an impact on the middle class that they have not seen before.
39:57And the issue is, if I'm deciding whether to pay this bill or that bill, you're never going to get
40:03out of the cycle.
40:04Yeah.
40:05And if you run a credit card balance, what's the interest rate on that?
40:0820, 20-some percent for people who run a balance?
40:1020-some percent.
40:1120-some percent.
40:12But you don't have to wait, Ali.
40:13We don't have to wait for that 10 percent cap that we're being promised by the Trump administration.
40:17There are still ways to get less than 10 percent on a credit card for more than a year, but
40:22you have to have a good credit score.
40:24You've got to pay those bills on time.
40:25And that's why folks should follow Sharon Epperson.
40:28She's got the best advice on how you can actually manage your personal finances.
40:32Sharon, good to see you, my old friend.
40:33Sharon Epperson, senior personal finance correspondent for CNBC.
40:36Make sure you read her excellent work in CNBC's Money 101 newsletter.
40:41Okay, we'll be right back.
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