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The Last Word with Lawrence ODonnell - Season 13 - Episode 16
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00:00We are now three days into the second year of Donald Trump's second term.
00:04And yesterday, the former special counsel Jack Smith reminded us
00:07of the choice that America and Americans faced in 2024.
00:13Our investigation developed proof beyond a reasonable doubt
00:17that President Trump engaged in criminal activity.
00:21If asked whether to prosecute a former president based on the same facts today,
00:27I would do so regardless of whether that president was a Democrat or a Republican.
00:33No one, no one should be above the law in this country.
00:39Seems like a simple thing you learn in school, right?
00:42No one should be above the law in this country.
00:44And I don't mean law school. I mean, we all learn this.
00:47And so we were also reminded that the Supreme Court's conservative majority
00:52gave a green light to Donald Trump's lawlessness
00:55that has been on display just about every single day since he returned to office.
01:01Trump's very likely unconstitutional tariffs have made life less affordable for Americans.
01:07They've increased the strain, the financial strain on small businesses.
01:11Trump's transactional foreign policy is threats to Greenland specifically.
01:16And our NATO allies more generally are alienating our allies
01:20and delighting our adversaries like Vladimir Putin.
01:23There's the $1,408,500,000 that Trump has made since returning to office.
01:30Much of it due to his family's crypto ventures.
01:34And in blue states and cities that didn't vote for Trump,
01:37residents are facing his cruel and brutal immigration crackdowns
01:40and the deployment of troops as a scare tactic.
01:43But amid all the chaos, amid all of this chaos that causes us great anxiety
01:50and some of us depression, there is in fact more than a little hope.
01:55It is 2026 now.
01:57We are 10 months away from the midterm elections
02:00and the polls are clearly showing that Americans reject Trumpism.
02:0656% of registered voters disapprove of the way Donald Trump is handling his job as president.
02:12Only 32% say they're better off with Donald Trump as president than they were a year ago
02:16when Joe Biden was the president, compared to 49% who say they are worse off.
02:2358% disapprove of how Donald Trump is handling his key issue,
02:28immigration, the economy, relationships with other countries.
02:3364% disapprove of how Donald Trump is handling the cost of living.
02:38Against the backdrop of these poor poll numbers,
02:40Donald Trump is set to give a speech on the economy in Iowa next Tuesday.
02:45That'll be interesting.
02:46Donald Trump plans to campaign like his name is on the ballot for this year's midterms.
02:51This week, Democrats Abigail Spanberger of Virginia and Mikey Sherrill of New Jersey
02:57were sworn in after winning their governor's races in the first real test
03:02of the second Trump administration.
03:04The shock and awe of Donald Trump's first year back in office was meant to do what wannabe
03:10dictators always want to do.
03:13Make people feel like everyone's with the dictator.
03:17Make it seem like resistance to that dictator is futile.
03:21But over this year, we have seen literally thousands of protests,
03:25not thousands of protests, protesters, thousands of protests by many millions of Americans,
03:33including the 7 million people on just one day who attended the 2,700 No Kings events
03:42across the country last October.
03:457 million people showed up then.
03:48Things are way worse today than they were in October.
03:50American citizens are proving that resistance is anything but futile.
03:56And ordinary citizens are doing it.
04:00In Minneapolis today, thousands of people brave the below zero temperatures
04:04to protest Donald Trump's immigration policies that are terrorizing their communities.
04:08The reports of white people, white people who are busy with jobs and families and bills
04:14and everyday life would drop everything to show up in solidarity in the cold.
04:20It's really cold in Minneapolis right now.
04:23Are inspiring.
04:25Margaret Kiljoy, an author and podcast host, wrote earlier this week,
04:29quote,
04:30I came to Minneapolis to report on what's going on.
04:33And one of the main questions I showed up with is just what is the scale of the resistance?
04:38After all, we're used to seeing the news calling Portland a war zone or whatever
04:43when it's just some protests in one part of town.
04:46I talked with a 76-year-old who'd been standing in the cold for hours,
04:50guarding her neighbors, guarding her neighbors.
04:52It was getting kind of chilly even in the new winter gear that I brought for the trip.
04:57She didn't even have a hat on.
04:59Another person put it,
05:00we're Minnesotans, we're excited to get out real winter gear out of the box for the year.
05:05He was an audio engineer whose kid went to school in the area.
05:08No way in hell was he going to let anyone come for the kids on his watch.
05:13Another friend put it to me like this.
05:16ICE has made the classic Nazi mistake.
05:20They've invaded a winter people in the winter.
05:24When I asked an organizer what they wanted to see out of the press coverage,
05:27they told me they wanted people to see the beautiful things that they are building here,
05:30not just the worst stories of the worst of ICE crimes.
05:33What people are doing here is beautiful.
05:35It's a tragic beauty, but a real one.
05:40Kerry Howley reports in New York Magazine,
05:43it is the misfortune of Minnesota's ICE contingent to have invaded the state
05:47with the second highest levels of social trust, trailing only Utah.
05:52Many activist networks were formed in 2020.
05:55We are seeing, Joannuta Petras, the poet laureate of Minneapolis, says,
05:59Minnesotans calling upon the muscle memory of the George Floyd protests.
06:03In mid-January, a neighborhood organization for the part of town called Whittier
06:08put out a call for a meeting to organize a neighborhood ICE response.
06:12More than 800 people showed up at the local elementary school
06:15and formed a tiny line extending well beyond the door.
06:19Why a line, I ask someone later?
06:22Because we're in Minnesota, he says.
06:24In the cafeteria, in their big coats, adults struggled to get their legs
06:28through the benches that are attached to the long lunch tables
06:31because there were too many Minnesotans to fit in a single room.
06:34Officials and parents and teachers went room to room
06:38giving the same speeches about how to help neighbors in hiding.
06:43What a thing.
06:44What a thing to see.
06:46Leading off our discussion tonight is the Democratic Representative Kelly Morrison
06:49of Minnesota.
06:51Representative Morrison, it's always a pleasure to see you.
06:54We talk altogether too much these days for all the wrong reasons.
06:57But I think it's worth framing.
07:00There are some right reasons going on right now.
07:03Minnesotans and Americans have come together and said the cruelty is enough.
07:08It is too much.
07:08You will not take our souls.
07:11You will not take our cities.
07:13It's exactly right.
07:15And I'm smiling, Ali.
07:16It's good to see you as ever.
07:17But I loved that ode to Minnesota that you just shared with everyone.
07:21I could not be more proud of my state and its people.
07:25You know, we're going through something really traumatic.
07:28The weight of the federal government is coming down upon us.
07:31We have literally been invaded by federal agents.
07:35Neighborhoods are being terrorized.
07:37Children are being terrorized.
07:39Families are being ripped apart.
07:40And Minnesotans are organizing in the most remarkable way.
07:45It's grassroots neighborhood by neighborhood, school by school.
07:50People are coming together to protect each other and to take care of their neighbors.
07:56And I really think, you know, I just got back to Minnesota from D.C.
08:01The eyes of the nation are on Minnesota right now.
08:05And for good reason, because you can't help but see the through line from the civil rights movement.
08:11You think about the March on Selma in 1965.
08:14As soon as the American people saw the fire hoses and the dogs turned on to people and saw the
08:22lack of humanity, that's when it started to change.
08:25And that's happening here, too.
08:27People saw with their own eyes that Renee Good was killed in an unjust way.
08:33Many people calling it murder and assassination.
08:35Whatever you want to say, she should be alive today.
08:38We're watching small children wearing little bunny hats in the winter being used as bait to draw their parents out.
08:45We're seeing grandfathers being pulled out of their homes in freezing temperatures, wearing Crocs and no shirt.
08:54The images, I think, are breaking through.
08:58We had, despite some estimates, 50,000 people show up in downtown Minneapolis today to protest ISIS presence.
09:05Allie, it is 30 below windchill here today.
09:09It is really cold, even for Minnesota.
09:12And tens of thousands of people came out together to protest nonviolently and say,
09:19this is not, this will not stand in Minnesota.
09:22And this is not what we want the United States to be about.
09:25So I could not be more proud of my state.
09:28And I want the people of Minnesota to know that they are inspiring our nation.
09:34And in many ways, they're inspiring people all over the world.
09:37And it's something to-
09:38And it is ours.
09:39It is ours in the rest of the world.
09:41I've got a piece of my heart in Minnesota because I spent so much time there.
09:45And it was a picture in the murder of George Floyd that broke through, that told people the official narrative
09:53is not true.
09:53You've got the vice president of the United States saying that these were radical left lunatics and the violence that's
09:59going on.
09:59But we have eyes and we have video.
10:01And to all of those people who hit record every time, to all of those people who say, I'm out
10:06here standing guard for my neighbor,
10:09and they don't decide whether their neighbor matters less because they may be an American citizen or they may be
10:15a documented immigrant or they may be an undocumented immigrant or they may be children.
10:18They don't care.
10:19They are standing guard for their neighbor.
10:21That is a lesson for all of us across this country right now.
10:24Stand guard for your neighbor wherever you are.
10:26Go out and speak to the government and say, this is our country, not yours.
10:31Absolutely.
10:32And, you know, the other thing that happened today that I think was really beautiful is more than a thousand
10:37clergy members flew to Minnesota today.
10:41Christian priests and pastors and rabbis and imams came together.
10:46They celebrated at Westminster Church in Minneapolis.
10:49Then they went to Temple Israel in Minneapolis.
10:51They went to the airport and prayed together.
10:55And they came because they believe in the dignity of every single human being.
11:00And this is what this fight is about.
11:03It is about the dignity of each one of us.
11:05And it's about human rights.
11:08It's something to behold, Ali.
11:10And I reiterate how proud I am of my state in this incredibly challenging and difficult moment.
11:17And I say to Minnesotans, keep going.
11:20Continue.
11:20And to people across the country, continue to protest nonviolently.
11:25Continue to say, we are not going to let you take away our values of compassion and kindness and generosity
11:32and common humanity.
11:36Congresswoman, thank you.
11:36It's been a tragic time and a difficult time.
11:39But out of this, we are seeing a great deal of hope and a great deal of promise.
11:43The Minnesota Congresswoman Kelly Morrison, we always thank you for your time.
11:47Well, one thing about midterm campaigns is that they're all different.
11:50They're all actually local.
11:52And that's going to be a problem for Republicans, because as you can see from the polls, Donald Trump is
11:56underwater on nearly every key issue, from the cost of living to immigration to foreign policy.
12:03Joining us now is Anderson Clayton, chair of the North Carolina Democratic Party.
12:07Anderson, great to see you again.
12:08Thank you for being with us.
12:09Obviously, all eyes are going to be on North Carolina.
12:13It's going to be everywhere in this this year.
12:15But North Carolina is one of those interesting states, Republican supermajority in your in your legislatures.
12:20And yet regularly you elect Democrats on a statewide level, which has something to do with with gerrymandering in your
12:28state.
12:29But at this moment, North Carolina is going to be a sort of a temperature gauge on what's going on
12:35in this country.
12:36North Carolina is excited to make sure that we win a U.S. Senate election for Democrats this year, Allie.
12:42And we are making sure that that effort is seen across the ground right now with canvas launches that are
12:47happening almost weekly in counties across North Carolina.
12:51And for anybody that's interested in getting involved, we'd love to have your help.
12:55So I hope that you go to ncdp.org and sign up to knock doors near you, because that is
13:00how we're going to change hearts and minds on the ground this year across the state is that coming to
13:04them directly.
13:05You know, I think about all these things that are going on, Greenland, making Canada the 51st state, Venezuela ballrooms,
13:13the Kennedy Center.
13:15None of this speaks to the stuff that people in North Carolina are worried about and need done for them.
13:22No, I mean, we just saw the second year anniversary of Hurricane Helene.
13:27And when Trump had first promised to come to Western North Carolina and make sure he sat in Swannanoa, which
13:33is right there in Buncombe County,
13:34and promised to people across the Western side of our state that he was going to ensure that 100 percent
13:39of federal funding happened and came through for that region of our state.
13:43And we're still sitting here with empty promises and broken promises for a region of North Carolina that has suffered
13:49one of the worst natural disasters that we've ever seen in human history come through,
13:54especially for places that are hard to reach in more rural and remote parts of North Carolina.
13:58And so I think that, no, Roy Cooper has got a great opportunity to make sure that we hold Donald
14:03Trump accountable for the vacant promises and the missing promises that he has not followed through with across for people
14:10in the state so far.
14:11Yeah, Roy Cooper is one of sort of five or six people that if things go the right way, that's
14:16a path for for Democrats taking the United States Senate.
14:19It's not an obscure path. It's not that hard. You and I have been talking for a lot.
14:23You know, in the last year, we've seen a lot of Republicans, Democrats go into Republican districts and rural districts
14:29in America and speak to voters there,
14:31particularly because a lot of Republican representatives didn't show up for town halls.
14:35You and I spoke a long time before this and you were saying it is incumbent upon Democrats to be
14:40out there.
14:41To be out in places where they don't actually win a majority of the votes and talk to people and
14:46understand what it is they want and what it is Democrats can do for them.
14:50Absolutely. I think it's one of the most important things that we can be doing, even when we know that
14:55we may not be winning rural voters automatically.
14:57It's still our job to go out there and listen and to make sure that folks know that we hear
15:01their struggles and that we understand what's going on in their communities right now.
15:05And I fully believe with Democrats like Representative Dante Pittman, who is in rural Wilson, North Carolina, that broke the
15:12Republican supermajority in the statehouse just in 2024 in North Carolina.
15:17Candidates like that can win back in rural places again if they have the resources and the opportunities that are
15:23provided to them.
15:24And I really think that comes from having strong candidate recruitment across rural places.
15:29And Lindsay Prather, Beth Helfridge.
15:31I mean, North Carolina has an incredible bench of candidates so far this year that are from and that are
15:36running in rural communities who really represent the districts that they're in right now.
15:41Anderson, I appreciate you always bringing that to our attention.
15:44Don't ignore rural America.
15:45Rural America needs voices right now.
15:49Good to see you, as always.
15:50The North Carolina Democratic Party Chair, Anderson Clayton.
15:53All right, coming up, Elon Musk and his money are back to try and save Donald Trump from midterm humiliation.
15:58I'll tell you about that next.
16:02Here's the headline from today's Wall Street Journal.
16:05Elon Musk is diving back into U.S. politics.
16:08Billionaire has mended rift with Trump, and he's giving millions to Republicans again.
16:14Surprise, surprise.
16:15At least we now can stop pretending that Musk is something more sophisticated than just another super rich Republican mega
16:22donor.
16:23With a massive investment in the current administration and massive incentives for government money and policies that could make him
16:29yet richer and more powerful.
16:32According to Common Cause, Elon Musk donated a quarter of a billion dollars to PACs supporting President Donald Trump's 2024
16:39campaign.
16:40That was the largest donation to a political entity in the election, and it was made by the richest person
16:45in the world.
16:47And by the way, that's only the money that we know about.
16:51The money Elon Musk spent was under his own name.
16:54We will never know how much he may have spent in dark money.
16:56In the final weeks of the 2024 presidential campaign, Trump supporting Elon Musk was doing million-dollar giveaways to people
17:04in swing states like Pennsylvania and Wisconsin.
17:07That shocked many Americans who said it sure looks like Elon Musk is basically paying people to vote for Trump.
17:15After the election, Trump handed his biggest donor a proverbial chainsaw and allowed Musk, an unelected multibillionaire, to dismantle entire
17:25federal agencies like USAID
17:28and allowed him access to federal data like your Social Security information, which the Trump administration has conceded in court
17:36that Musk's team may have misused.
17:39Trump also hawked Musk cars on the lawn of the White House, another shock for Americans to see the seat
17:45of American democracy turned into a car salesman's lot.
17:50Elon Musk purchasing the biggest individual stake in the 2024 presidential campaign in support of Donald Trump was made possible
17:57by the conservatives on the United States Supreme Court.
18:00Yes, them again.
18:01The 2010 Supreme Court ruling in the case of Citizens United versus the Federal Election Commission essentially said that money
18:09is a form of speech and shouldn't be restricted.
18:11And now we're living with the consequences of that decision.
18:16Joining us now is Lawrence Lessig.
18:18He's a professor at Harvard Law School.
18:19He's one of the country's leading campaign finance reform advocates.
18:22Professor Lessig, good to see you again.
18:24Thank you for being with us.
18:25Thanks for having me.
18:26You know, people talk a lot about term limits and that's not a bad idea.
18:30But one of the things that much of the Western world has figured out is that it's just not that
18:36complicated to limit campaign spending.
18:38We are a standout in the developed democratic world in terms of how we allow elections to be bought.
18:47It's true.
18:49But, Ali, I beg you, please don't say this is because of Citizens United.
18:55The super PACs were not created by Citizens United.
18:59And indeed, Elon Musk's ability to give millions of dollars was created by the Supreme Court 50 years ago in
19:07the case Buckley v. Vallejo.
19:09Citizens United just said corporations could spend money independently.
19:14It was a lower federal court, a case called SpeechNow, that created the super PAC.
19:20And this Supreme Court has never had the chance to review that case.
19:24And under Citizens United, that case is clearly wrong.
19:29So that's what we're teeing up with an initiative in Maine.
19:33And I'm confident when the First Circuit agrees with us, we will be in the Supreme Court.
19:38And the Supreme Court will have a chance to say super PACs are not part of our Constitution.
19:45Let's talk about this situation in Maine.
19:48I'm going to read to you from a Boston Globe op-ed about the legislation.
19:53Voters in Maine in 2024 approved a new $5,000 limit on contributions to super PACs within their state.
20:00The constitutionality of that law is now being litigated in federal court.
20:03A victory for Maine's law would not just uphold contribution limits in a single state, but would reinstate limits on
20:09donations to PACs nationwide just in time for the 2028 presidential election.
20:15Put a little meat on those bones for me and let me know how a victory in court, how quickly
20:22it could resonate around the United States and what effect it could have on the next federal election.
20:27Right. So Maine's initiative limited the size of contributions to $5,000.
20:34And there's a federal law that also limits the size of contributions to independent political action committees to $5,000.
20:41That was the law that the D.C. Circuit struck down 16 years ago in SpeechNow versus FEC.
20:48And I don't mean to interrupt you, but that's a very common thing, again, in the Western democratic world.
20:55That's a number. It's similar. Canada, I think, has a slightly smaller number, but that's normal.
21:01That's a normal number. That's right. That's the same number that's limiting the size of contributions you can give to
21:06a committee that directly coordinates with a candidate.
21:09So it's a completely fair number. But the point is, remember when Dobbs was decided and all of the anti
21:15-abortion laws around the country came back to life because Roe versus Wade had struck them down?
21:21Well, that's the same principle here. If the Maine law is upheld because the court concludes that there's a difference
21:30between independent spending and contributions to a committee that then will spend that money independently,
21:37then that means not only is Maine's law constitutional, but the federal law would also come back to life so
21:45that by 2028, we could live in a republic where the super PACs no longer have the freedom to raise
21:54money in unlimited amounts.
21:55Now, Elon Musk can still give his money. He can spend his own name. That's what Buckley versus Vallejo, which
22:03is 50 years old, next week, held way, way, long time ago.
22:08But the Citizens United decision does not mean super PACs are constitutionally compelled.
22:14And I think when our lawyer, Neil Katyal, has a chance to make this argument, both in the First Circuit
22:20and in the Supreme Court, the court will agree that their decisions do not require super PACs as part of
22:26our republic.
22:28Will it fundamentally limit Elon Musk's ability to spend a quarter of a billion dollars in favor of Donald Trump
22:34if he chooses to do so in the next election?
22:36No, it won't. And so we should accept the fact that under the Buckley decision, which, you know, Citizens United
22:45certainly did not question under that decision,
22:48it's certainly possible for an individual to continue to spend their money as long as it's independent.
22:54Now, we could ask whether it's really independent. And it's really hard to look at the dynamic here and believe
22:59that that money is independent.
23:01And if the next administration comes into office and it's not the Trump administration or Trump related administration, they can
23:08investigate whether, in fact, it's independent.
23:10And if it's not independent, then Elon Musk has violated campaign finance laws and he is subject to civil fines
23:19and even criminal penalties.
23:20But if it is independent, what Buckley means is that he can spend that money completely.
23:25But we have to focus on the real problem. Elon Musk is not the real problem.
23:29The real problem is the system of super PACs, which is now raising billions of dollars from an ever shrinking
23:36number of individuals who basically get to veto anything they don't like, because that's the dynamic.
23:44You report on it all the time. You brilliantly report on it all the time.
23:47Thank you. But I think if you talk about it as Citizens United, look, nobody thinks the Supreme Court is
23:52going to overturn Citizens United because they're not.
23:54But we get to say to them, don't overturn Citizens United, but just say super PACs are not constitutionally compelled
24:02and we take care of 80 percent of the problem.
24:04I'm much smarter for this conversation. I always appreciate it. Thank you, sir.
24:07Professor Lawrence Lessig of Harvard University. This is Harvard Law School.
24:11This is an important topic for us to stay on top of. We appreciate your time tonight, sir.
24:14Thank you. All right. Coming up, Donald Trump is big mad today.
24:18The Canada's prime minister called him out in his stunning speech at Davos this week.
24:22That's next. Donald Trump thinks America got nothing from the world order that the United States helped build in the
24:32wake of the horror of World War Two.
24:34Donald Trump was born in 1946, literally the first of the postwar baby boomers.
24:41He's lived his entire life as a beneficiary of the unrivaled stretch of peace and prosperity that followed.
24:48I mean, it wasn't perfect, but it wasn't nothing, even if Donald Trump doesn't know that.
24:56Then after the war, which we won, we won it big.
25:01Without us right now, you'd all be speaking German and a little Japanese, perhaps.
25:09Set aside that he made that speech in Switzerland, a country in which two thirds of the population does,
25:14in fact, speak German as a first language.
25:16That wasn't the worst of it. I don't know whether Trump knew that something he said wasn't true or whether
25:22he just didn't know.
25:24But the problem with NATO is that we'll be there for them 100 percent.
25:31But I'm not sure that they'd be there for us if we gave them the call.
25:38Gentlemen, we are being attacked. We're under attack by such and such a nation.
25:43I know them all very well. I'm not sure that they'd be there.
25:46I know we'd be there for them. I don't know that they'd be there for us.
25:52We have a word for that in Canada.
25:55B and S. I won't say it tonight.
25:58My next guest has probably fallen off his chair.
26:00I hope he can recover in order for us to talk about this.
26:03Never mind that the only time in history that NATO's Article 5 has ever been invoked.
26:11That's the thing that says an attack on one is an attack on all.
26:14The only time it has ever been invoked was in defense of America after 9-11.
26:21And now Donald Trump, in his ignorance, could be the one to end the collective action that has kept peace
26:25in the Western world for his entire lifetime.
26:29The Boston Globe put it like this.
26:30The annual World Economic Forum in Davos has always been a peculiar ritual.
26:35Global elites gathering to reassure one another that the system they built still works, even as evidence accumulates that it
26:41does not.
26:42This year, the disconnect was harder to ignore.
26:46On one side were dated invocations of stability.
26:49NATO, multilateralism, climate summits, the rule-based international order.
26:54On the other hand was Donald Trump, discarding the language of norms in his rambling address and replacing it with
26:59something closer to the new reality.
27:01Power, leverage, and spheres of influence.
27:05The Canadian Prime Minister, Mark Carney, the former central banker turned global statesman, delivered perhaps the clearest-eyed speech of
27:13the conference.
27:14He was not nostalgic for the old world order.
27:18Here's part of what Prime Minister Carney said in Davos on Tuesday.
27:24For decades, countries like Canada prospered under what we called the rules-based international order.
27:29We joined its institutions.
27:30We praised its principles.
27:32We benefited from its predictability.
27:35And because of that, we could pursue values-based foreign policies under its protection.
27:40We knew the story of the international rules-based order was partially false.
27:45That the strongest would exempt themselves when convenient.
27:49That trade rules were enforced asymmetrically.
27:54And we knew that international law applied with varying rigor depending on the identity of the accused or the victim.
28:02This fiction was useful.
28:04And American hegemony, in particular, helped provide public goods, open sea lanes, a stable financial system, collective security, and support
28:14for frameworks for resolving disputes.
28:17So we placed the sign in the window.
28:20We participated in the rituals.
28:23And we largely avoided calling out the gaps between rhetoric and reality.
28:29This bargain no longer works.
28:32Let me be direct.
28:34We are in the midst of a rupture, not a transition.
28:38Over the past two decades, a series of crises in finance, health, energy, and geopolitics have laid bare the risks
28:45of extreme global integration.
28:47But more recently, great powers have begun using economic integration as weapons.
28:53Tariffs as leverage.
28:55Financial infrastructure as coercion.
28:57Supply chains as vulnerabilities to be exploited.
29:01You cannot live within the lie of mutual benefit through integration when integration becomes the source of your subordination.
29:12Prime Minister Carney then said this about the path forward.
29:18Canada is a pluralistic society that works.
29:22Our public square is loud, diverse, and free.
29:25Canadians remain committed to sustainability.
29:29We are a stable and reliable partner in a world that is anything but.
29:34A partner that builds and values relationships for the long term.
29:39And we have something else.
29:40We have a recognition of what's happening and a determination to act accordingly.
29:46We understand that this rupture calls for more than adaptation.
29:49It calls for honesty about the world as it is.
29:52We are taking the sign out of the window.
29:55We know the old order is not coming back.
29:59We shouldn't mourn it.
30:01Nostalgia is not a strategy.
30:04But we believe that from the fracture we can build something bigger, better, stronger, more just.
30:10This is the task of the middle powers.
30:13The countries that have the most to lose from a world of fortresses and the most to gain from genuine
30:19cooperation.
30:22The powerful have their power.
30:25But we have something too.
30:26The capacity to stop pretending, to name reality, to build our strength at home, and to act together.
30:35That is Canada's path.
30:38We choose it openly and confidently.
30:41And it is a path wide open to any country willing to take it with us.
30:48Thank you very much.
30:58Got a pretty long-standing ovation for that.
31:00Prime Minister Carney never said his name, but Donald Trump clearly took note of the well-received speech
31:04and responded with a petulant social media post rescinding Canada's invitation
31:09to his so-called nonsensical organization called the Gaza Board of Peace.
31:14Many European allies like the U.K., France, Italy, and Germany have also turned down invitations to join that silly
31:20organization.
31:21The group that was gathered on stage for that Board of Peace's debut on Thursday night
31:26gave us a glimpse of what the new world order in the Trump era might look like.
31:31It's quite a story.
31:32Joining us now is Michael McFaul.
31:33He served as the United States ambassador to Russia under President Obama.
31:36He's an MSNOW international affairs analyst.
31:38He's the author of Autocrats vs. Democrats, China, Russia, America, and the New Global Disorder.
31:44Ambassador, thank you for being with us.
31:45Mark Carney, you know, I drop as frequently as I can the reference to being Canadian,
31:50but he's a technocrat.
31:52He's the kind of guy who Europeans tend to elect, right?
31:55It's not the kind of guy that Americans elect.
31:56He was a central banker in the United Kingdom, in Canada.
32:00He stepped into the limelight as a global leader with a message that the world seems to be ready for
32:07right now.
32:10Yes, it was a historic speech.
32:13And by the way, one of my former students works for him, a Canadian, so I'm proud of that fact,
32:17too,
32:17because we used to study these very issues here at Stanford.
32:21And I want to just say analytically, I think the speech was brilliant.
32:26But I also want to tell you, as a small D Democrat and a small L liberal who believes in
32:33the same thing that the prime minister does on almost everything,
32:36it's a very sad speech for me to listen to as an American.
32:40I'm not ready.
32:42The disruptor that he talked about, that's a lamentation for me.
32:46That's really sad that one of our closest allies in all of this history that you so eloquently just described,
32:54we've been there together, including in the trenches, but on so many issues.
32:58And now, because of our president right now, he is compelling one of our closest allies ever to make that
33:07speech.
33:08So I agree analytically with what he said.
33:11I think the strategy for middle powers is the correct one.
33:14But I'm not going to give up hope.
33:16And I want to remind everybody that President Trump does not speak for all of Americans.
33:22Public opinion is really clear that we don't want to leave NATO.
33:26We don't want to abandon values.
33:28We don't want to abandon Ukraine.
33:30He is out of touch with American society on this.
33:34And the question moving forward is, can we, who believe in liberal internationalism, like the prime minister does,
33:42can we push our country back in the right direction?
33:45And that question I do not know, but I know that I'm going to be engaged in that fight.
33:50So, Donald Trump, again, this is the point where I think you may have fallen out of your chair when
33:54he said if NATO,
33:55you know, if we were to call up our NATO allies and say, hey, guys, we're under attack, I don't
34:00think they'd come.
34:01I don't even know what to say about that.
34:03I just don't know what to say about that.
34:05Anybody who's read a pamphlet on NATO understands that Article 5 was invoked once.
34:09It was invoked when America was attacked and people, Canadians, the French, the Brits and 30 other countries gave their
34:18blood in support of the United States in Afghanistan.
34:25I'll tell you how to call it.
34:26It's outrageous.
34:28This president says a lot of outrageous things.
34:31I thought, you know, when he was talking about invading Greenland, he couldn't outdo himself.
34:37But it is absolutely outrageous.
34:40And to your point, maybe he doesn't know.
34:42But that's no excuse.
34:43As the president of the United States, you need to know.
34:45And by the way, we didn't call them when we were attacked.
34:50They called us.
34:51They moved before we even asked for them to come with us in Afghanistan.
34:58And the idea that the sacrifice that you just described, and it was heroic sacrifice by many, many countries that
35:07were not attacked, that had no dog in the fight in al-Qaeda and the Taliban in Afghanistan, yet deployed
35:14to die with our soldiers.
35:16And he is so disgraceful to say what he did.
35:21And it's just outrageous.
35:22And I hope other Americans and members of our Congress and Senate will speak out and call them on it
35:28because it does not represent the America that I want.
35:31But they don't.
35:32You're right.
35:33And they don't.
35:34And you know Republicans in Congress who believe that they're in the same place that you are about what America's
35:40role in the world should be.
35:41There may be minute differences on how involved we should be in certain things.
35:44But generally speaking, Americans share this view that we should be a massive contributor to the peace and stability of
35:51the world.
35:51And yet we do not hear the outrage from Republicans, from the enablers of Donald Trump.
35:57It's disappointing to me, especially those that were affiliated with the Bush administration.
36:03They were the ones who were attacked.
36:05They were the ones that led this coalition.
36:08And I think it is time for them to push back.
36:12I mean, it's one thing you've got to pick your fights and whatever.
36:14And I know many of these people.
36:16You're right.
36:17I know what they say privately.
36:18But this is outrageous.
36:20And it's not just outrageous in a moral place.
36:22And I can get angry about it.
36:24It's bad for America's long-term national interest because this strategy means that we are going it alone.
36:34And, you know, we can survive for a while.
36:37We're a great, powerful nation.
36:38We have lots of resources.
36:39But decades from now, our children and grandchildren can't go it alone.
36:44We're not that strong.
36:46And when we pull out and we offend everybody, we think everything's going to break down.
36:50That's not true.
36:52Remember, President Trump pulled out of that Trans-Pacific Partnership in his first term.
36:56It still exists, folks.
36:58It's doing well.
36:59It just exists without us.
37:01They did it without us.
37:02And same with NATO.
37:04NATO will survive without us.
37:06And we will be the losers, not Canada, not our NATO allies.
37:11And I think even if you don't agree morally, you should agree strategically we're better off with allies than going
37:18it alone.
37:20Ambassador, good to see you as always.
37:21Thank you for this conversation tonight, Ambassador Michael McFaul.
37:24All right, coming up, Pete Hegs have ousted a 35-year Navy veteran without any explanation.
37:29Now she's running for Congress.
37:30You'll meet her after this break.
37:35Donald Trump and his allies have been actively working all year to rewrite America's past and its future with leadership
37:41choices.
37:41In his first month in office, Trump fired the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, General Charles Q. Brown,
37:47and the head of naval operations, Lisa Frenchetti.
37:50This came as Trump was signing a flurry of DEI executive orders.
37:54It's not hard to see a pattern here.
37:55For nearly two decades, women have served at the very top of our nation's armed forces as four-star generals
38:02and admirals.
38:03The Secretary of Defense, Pete Hegs have, has removed them all along with other high-ranking women in uniform.
38:09By the way, he's got a long history of talking about this.
38:10He's written about it in his book.
38:11He just kind of doesn't think women should be doing this kind of thing.
38:14Among those Hegs have pushed out was Rear Admiral Lancey LaCour.
38:18She's a 35-year Navy veteran and a helicopter pilot.
38:21But Admiral LaCour was removed from her post without explanation in August, but she did not walk away.
38:27Here she is.
38:28She's running for Congress in South Carolina's 1st District, the seat currently held by Nancy Mace, who is running for
38:34governor.
38:34Joining us now is the retired Rear Admiral Nancy LaCour.
38:38Rear Admiral, good to see you.
38:39Thank you for being with us.
38:41I have to ask you, because my answer might be obvious, but I'm going to ask you because you're here.
38:45What made you decide to run for office?
38:49Well, the answer is pretty simple.
38:51I love our country, and that's why I'm running for Congress.
38:54I really—it's not something I thought I would be doing, particularly not now, so soon after retiring from the Navy,
39:00but I feel like I need to do it.
39:03There's families all across this country that are having to make impossible choices every day.
39:08Do they pay their health care premiums, or do they put food on the table?
39:12And there are people who serve our country, people who serve our communities, who can't make ends meet.
39:18I think of my own daughter, who's in law enforcement, who has to work overtime just to pay her bills.
39:23And frankly, our democracy is being tested every day.
39:27These are the reasons why I feel compelled to be running for Congress.
39:31We also have a large military presence in your district, in your state.
39:36There are some who argue that, you know, they're very proud of being in the military and their kids and
39:40their fathers and their mothers.
39:42We're not necessarily doing the right thing with our military right now.
39:45We're doing things that are not necessarily to the benefit of the American people.
39:51Yeah, I absolutely believe that, too.
39:53I think right now it's pretty clear that politics take a priority over people.
39:57And we need more people to get into Congress who will reverse that and put people over politics every single
40:05time.
40:06Your history is kind of America.
40:08It's an American great story.
40:10You spent 35 years in the Navy.
40:13What do you say to somebody who says she got her promotions and her job because she's a woman?
40:17I mean, the stuff you've done is not it's unusual for women and men like it.
40:22Just you.
40:23People like you are our heroes in America.
40:25What do you say?
40:26Do you even bother with that question?
40:29No, because it doesn't matter to those of us who serve.
40:32We don't care who's next to us.
40:34We put the best person in the job, you know, whether it's instructing as a helicopter pilot
40:39or it's commanding the only installation on the continent of Africa or it's leading the Navy Reserve.
40:45Who's ever best qualified for those positions is put into those positions.
40:49Well said.
40:50I thank you for your service to this country, and I hope that you have the opportunity to continue that
40:54service.
40:54The retired Rear Admiral Nancy LaCour is a candidate for Congress from South Carolina's 1st District.
40:59Thank you for joining us tonight.
41:03Tonight's last word is next.
41:04잘못ed.
41:05Hopeас That pilot is bootleg.
41:06See you next week.
41:06Bye.
41:06Bye.
41:06Bye.
41:07Bye.
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