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The Last Word with Lawrence ODonnell - Season 13 - Episode 32
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00:01All right, that's going to do it for me tonight. Now it's time for the Lawrence O'Donnell. Good
00:05evening, Lawrence. Good evening, Rachel. So it sounds like the New Hampshire lesson is a version
00:11of a lesson I think we've learned before, that if you're a Republican who was not previously judged
00:18to be incompetent, Donald Trump will take care of that. Donald Trump will get you
00:25declared and revealed to be completely incompetent, at least if it involves going up against any
00:33horrible thing Donald Trump wants to do to your constituents.
00:38Or even exhibiting any clarity whatsoever when it comes to something that your constituents want.
00:46I mean, if Kelly Ayotte had the stones to come out and say, I recognize that the dumb liberals
00:54of my state don't want a Trump prison camp here, but we patriots would love to have one.
01:00I mean, she could she could try something like that. Right. And it would at least have some coherence
01:05or she could come out and say like Mississippi Senator Roger Wicker did and say like, oh,
01:10this isn't good for Mississippi. Don't put one here. She could try either of those things.
01:14But instead, what she's saying is, I don't know whether this is OK, but I would definitely
01:19like to be CC'd on all the letters. And I haven't I'm confused as to whether or not it's happening.
01:25Like talk about absolutely blowing it in every direction. I at least thought that Kelly Ayotte
01:30had political peripheral vision like she I thought she was a competent Paul, whether or not I've ever
01:37agreed with her on anything. But I'm just I just haven't seen a political performance this pitiful
01:42at the at a state governance level. And like since covid. Yeah. And the governor's staff could
01:49simply get a copy of Senator Wicker's letter, which is public, which which we read on this TV show.
01:58It's saying on the Internet, saying to Kristi Noem, not only do I not want you to try to do
02:04this,
02:04one of these facilities in in the small town in Mississippi they were trying to do it in,
02:09but don't try to do it in the state of Mississippi. Stay out of the state of Mississippi. It's all
02:14in
02:14polite senatorial language. It's really easy to copy. You can just write one of those and send them to
02:21Kristi Noem. And instead, Kelly Ayotte is now who is like succeeding before now in keeping her head
02:29below water and not really being tarred with the brush of being a Trump era Republican, therefore
02:36potentially having some future political campaigns, potentially even national political campaigns
02:42ahead of her. Right. Except this is the way that she wants to make herself known nationally as the
02:49governor with the nation's most embarrassing and pitiful performance on the issue of whether or not
02:55Trump, the Donald Trump presidency will include the building of a gulag, a gulag archipelago.
03:00I mean, it's just. Senator Rick's letter actually makes the case that is the opposite case of the
03:06Trump propaganda stuff, which is these kinds of things are bad economically. They are harmful to
03:11the local economy. They overburden the local medical systems, which normally have, if any, if they have
03:17a hospital, it's a small hospital that can't handle this giant increase in the population, what would
03:24be the incarcerated population there. Those people incarcerated still need health care. They still need
03:30water supply. They still need electricity. They need all of that. And the local infrastructure
03:35doesn't have it. The wicker letter is just a perfect model for every Republican out there who
03:42doesn't want these in their state, which is every Republican except the governor of New Hampshire, I
03:47guess. The governor of New Hampshire who isn't in favor, she just doesn't know. She doesn't know how she
03:55feels about it. It's just it's absolutely amazing. So I mean, we will see what would happen. Talking to
04:00my guest tonight, the state rep from New Hampshire about what she said. And I did not know this and
04:05I
04:05have not verified it. But what my guest asserted is that the owner of the facility that was sold to
04:10ICE
04:11is an donor, a major donor. And we'll look into that. If that proves to be the case, that means
04:17that
04:17had even more so than Roger Wicker, she would have had leverage over whether or not this happened over and
04:24above your typical politician's leverage if this was one of her major donors. And if she didn't exert
04:29that leverage and and professes to be confused and is trying to get away with taking no position
04:35while the rest of her state in that town are against it. I mean, I just think she's toast.
04:40Rachel, thanks for bringing the story to this network. We will be following it.
04:44Thanks, Lawrence. Thanks, Rachel. Thank you.
04:48OK, if the kids are nearby, gather them together around the TV so that they can hear a president
04:55speak on President's Day, not the current president, of course. On this President's Day,
05:022026, the current president, as usual, gave himself a day off, which was not the idea when
05:08President's Day was created. Donald Trump, who spent the day at his Florida golf club,
05:13posted a President's Day greeting to the world claiming that he was, quote, working hard.
05:20No one believes that. In fact, a solid majority of the country doesn't believe Donald Trump is
05:25working hard any day of the week, with 62 percent now disapproving of the way Donald Trump does
05:32and does not do his job as president.
05:38In 1879, 90 years after George Washington took the oath of office and 80 years after he died,
05:47the United States Congress made George Washington's birthday, February 22nd, a national holiday.
05:52Later, some states made Abraham Lincoln's birthday a holiday.
05:55In 1971, most states agreed to combine those holidays into what we now call President's Day
06:02and set that for the third Monday of February.
06:07And the president then didn't think, oh boy, they made a holiday for me to take the day off.
06:14In fact, on President's Day in 1972, Richard Nixon was actually working hard as president,
06:20doing one of the very few good things he did as president, making his first trip to China.
06:26Richard Nixon was literally making history on that president's day by making the first trip
06:32by a president of the United States to China.
06:36With a barely literate, profane Bulgarian living on most weekdays in the portion of the White House
06:43that he has not yet torn down, America has lost any expectation of decency or intelligence
06:50or wisdom or even coherent speech from the president.
06:55High school students in America today, many of whom are listening to a president for the first time,
07:01are hearing the stupidest things ever said in the White House.
07:05This is a day to teach those high school students and to remind voters
07:10that the hateful venom and incoherent ravings of Donald Trump are unique to his presidency.
07:19The first president of the 21st century Republican George W. Bush published an article today
07:25about George Washington and released an audio version of that article
07:29in which President George W. Bush said the most non-controversial things that could be said
07:35about George Washington and which every president other than Donald Trump hoped would be said about them.
07:47Our first leader helped define not only the character of the presidency, but the character of the country.
07:54Washington modeled what it means to put the good of the nation over self-interest and selfish ambitions.
08:00He embodied integrity and modeled why it's worth aspiring to.
08:04And he carried himself with dignity and self-restraint, honoring the office
08:09without allowing it to become invested with near-mythical powers.
08:15President Bush's article was immediately interpreted to be an attack on Donald Trump
08:20simply because it used the word humility.
08:25And by just describing the positive attributes that you just heard,
08:31everyone hearing those attributes knows that Donald Trump embodies the opposite
08:37and literally does try to invest himself with near-mythical powers
08:42by frequently posting memes of himself
08:47that you don't have to be a psychiatrist to know are filled with self-loathing.
08:53Donald Trump actually advances these cartoon versions of himself
08:58looking to his mind, strikingly handsome and young and muscular and all-powerful
09:03and, of course, looking nothing at all like himself, a look he must despise,
09:09the look of a 79-year-old man in obviously declining mental and physical health.
09:16George W. Bush's 1,200 words about George Washington
09:20do not include a single word of profanity, which would never be noteworthy
09:23until the Trump-Vance administration,
09:25in which both Donald Trump and James David Vance
09:28seem to regard their public use of profanity
09:32as proof of the toughness of their leadership.
09:36In fact, Donald Trump's public presidential profanity
09:40is the product of both limited brain function
09:43and the smallest vocabulary ever possessed by a president of the United States.
09:48As our worst president, Donald Trump stands alone.
09:54Every other president, including Richard Nixon,
09:56who committed crimes in office, stands above Donald Trump.
10:01But no president is more fully opposite to Donald Trump than Barack Obama,
10:07the overtly racist president and the only black president.
10:11So on this President's Day, when the United States of America would be better off
10:16with any previous occupant of the White House than we are with Donald Trump,
10:22we can best observe President's Day here
10:26by listening to President Obama,
10:28who appeared on Brian Tyler Cohen's podcast released over the weekend.
10:31President Obama offered a 47-minute rebuke to Donald Trump
10:36simply by being himself.
10:40President Obama did what Donald Trump never does.
10:44He actually answered every question, really answered the questions.
10:48The Washington Press Corps often gives Donald Trump unearned points
10:52for taking questions from them.
10:55Even though Donald Trump never actually answers those questions,
11:00he simply throws live-filled gibberish at the reporters
11:04who ask the questions, most of whom never actually attempt
11:08to get an answer from Donald Trump.
11:10As a reminder of what it's like to listen to a president
11:15who can speak and think and feel at the same time,
11:19here is President Obama's full five-minute answer
11:23to Brian Tyler Cohen's first excellent question.
11:27The answer includes words Donald Trump doesn't understand,
11:30like decency, courtesy, kindness.
11:34But the answer also embodies those words
11:37as Barack Obama's response to Donald Trump's racist poison.
11:46As you know better than anybody,
11:49the discourse has devolved into a level of cruelty
11:51that we haven't seen before.
11:52What was disqualifying just a few years ago now
11:55not only feels fine, acceptable, but actually rewarded.
11:59You have administration officials saying that the victims
12:03of ISIS aggression are domestic terrorists.
12:05You have J.D. Vance coming out and saying that it's okay.
12:08You don't have to apologize for being white.
12:11Just days ago, Donald Trump put a picture of you,
12:14your face on an ape's body.
12:16And so again, this is kind of,
12:19we've seen the de-evolution of the discourse.
12:22How do we come back from a place that we have fallen into?
12:25Well, first of all, I think it's important to recognize
12:29that the majority of the American people
12:32find this behavior deeply troubling.
12:36You know, it is true that it gets attention.
12:40It's true that it's a distraction.
12:45But, you know, as I'm traveling around the country,
12:48as you're traveling around the country,
12:50you meet people.
12:52They still believe in decency, courtesy, kindness.
12:58And there's this sort of clown show that's happening
13:02in social media and on television.
13:07And what is true is that there doesn't seem to be any shame
13:12about this among people who used to feel
13:16like you had to have some sort of decorum
13:20and a sense of propriety
13:24and respect for the office, right?
13:28So that's been lost.
13:30But the reason I point out that I don't think
13:33the majority of the American people approve of this
13:36is because ultimately the answer is going to come
13:40from the American people.
13:41And we just saw this in Minnesota, in Minneapolis.
13:49It is important for us to recognize
13:52the unprecedented nature of what ICE was doing
14:00in Minneapolis, St. Paul,
14:03the way that federal agents, ICE agents,
14:10were being deployed without any clear guidelines
14:16training, pulling people out of their homes,
14:22using five-year-olds to try to bait their parents,
14:28all the stuff that we saw,
14:30tear gassing, crowds simply who were standing there
14:34not breaking any laws.
14:37So the rogue behavior of agents of the federal government
14:43is deeply concerning and dangerous.
14:50But we should take a moment to appreciate
14:53the extraordinary outpouring of organizing,
15:02community-building, decency,
15:04neighbors buying groceries for folks,
15:08accompanying children to school,
15:11teachers who were standing up for their kids,
15:16not just randomly, but in a systematic, organized way,
15:23citizens saying,
15:24this is not the America we believe in,
15:27and we're going to fight back,
15:28and we're going to push back with the truth,
15:31and with cameras, and with peaceful protests,
15:35and shining a light on the sort of behavior
15:42that in the past we've seen in authoritarian countries,
15:47and we've seen in dictatorships,
15:50but we have not seen in America.
15:51And that kind of heroic, sustained behavior
15:58in sub-zero weather by ordinary people
16:04is what should give us hope,
16:06and it should remind us that at the end of the day,
16:12the way we get a democracy that's working,
16:14the way we get policies that actually
16:17are helping working families get ahead,
16:22the way that we restore norms, rule of law, decency,
16:28it's going to be because we, citizens,
16:31are activated and paying attention
16:33and saying enough,
16:35and saying we have a different idea
16:39of what the American family should look like
16:44and community should look like.
16:47And that is what I'm seeing across the board.
16:51So, you know, I was on a panel a while back,
16:56and I said, you know,
16:58a lot of the values that we say we subscribe to
17:05during easy times, during peaceful times,
17:10it's easy to say we believe in those things.
17:13Right, when they're not challenged.
17:14When they're not challenged.
17:15You know, it's easy to believe in free speech
17:17when it doesn't seem like the government's
17:20trying to crack down on free speech.
17:22It's easy to say that, you know,
17:25we believe in the golden rule
17:27when we aren't at risk of being arrested
17:31when we exercise the golden rule.
17:33Right now, we're being tested.
17:36And, you know, the good news is
17:37what we saw in Minneapolis and St. Paul
17:40and what we're seeing in places across the country,
17:43including here in Los Angeles,
17:45has been the American people saying,
17:49no, you know what,
17:50at least a good number of the American people saying,
17:52we're going to live up to those values
17:54that we say we believe in.
17:56And as long as we have folks doing that,
18:00I feel like we're going to get through this.
18:03President Obama offered what he believes
18:06is a winning formula for Democratic Party unity.
18:12If you want to create an environment that is welcoming
18:16and makes people feel,
18:18okay, there's room for me here,
18:21then the message and the story we tell has to be,
18:25all right, none of us are perfect.
18:27All of us count.
18:30We all have good in us that we can tap into.
18:34We can all learn from each other.
18:39And I think that is something we need to recover.
18:44That's part of the fun of politics.
18:46That's part of the community
18:47and the social bonding that can come about.
18:52And we saw that in Minneapolis.
18:57Somebody showed me a friend of mine,
19:01Michelle Norris is from Minnesota,
19:02and she was up there
19:03and she was going around talking to neighbors
19:06and people she had known for a long time
19:08as they were mobilizing protests
19:11and activities around us
19:13and she showed me a clip
19:15of this street band
19:19that was performing every night
19:25after all these activities
19:27had been taking place
19:28and protests, et cetera.
19:30And they were just out there
19:31and they were playing music
19:33and I'm trying to figure out
19:35how they were playing,
19:35you know,
19:37horns and drums, et cetera,
19:39in like zero degree weather
19:40because I would not have been able
19:42to put my lips on a trumpet.
19:47And people were celebrating
19:52what they had accomplished.
19:56And it was an embodiment of the values
19:59that make us care about other people.
20:04And that, I think, is a spirit
20:07that when Democrats tap into that spirit,
20:12then we win.
20:14The other side does the mean, angry,
20:20demagoguery, you know,
20:21exclusive us, them,
20:25you know, divisive politics.
20:27That's their, that's,
20:30that's their home court.
20:32Yeah.
20:33Our court is coming together.
20:39You should give yourself
20:41the President's Day treat
20:42of watching Brian Tyler Cohen's
20:44full interview with President Obama
20:47on Brian's YouTube channel.
20:50Congressman Ro Khanna
20:51will join us next.
20:56Republican Congressman Thomas Massey
20:58says this is the Epstein administration.
21:03This is about the Epstein class,
21:05the people who are funding
21:06the attacks against me.
21:08They may or may not be implicated
21:09in these files,
21:10but they were certainly rubbing shoulders
21:13with the people who are in these files.
21:15Donald Trump told us
21:16that even though, you know,
21:18he had dinner with these kinds of people
21:21in New York City
21:22and West Palm Beach
21:23that he would be transparent,
21:25but he's not.
21:27He's still in with the Epstein class.
21:29This is the Epstein administration
21:30and they're attacking me
21:32for trying to get these files released.
21:36On Air Force One tonight,
21:37Donald Trump said,
21:38quote,
21:39I have nothing to hide.
21:41That's what people hide,
21:42people who have things to hide always say.
21:44And the Justice Department
21:46that he controls
21:47is still hiding information
21:48in the Epstein files,
21:50even though Donald Trump's
21:51attorney general now claims
21:53that she has released
21:53all of the Epstein files.
21:56Donald Trump's attorney general
21:57released a list of all the names
21:59that appear in the Epstein files
22:01as if they are all equal,
22:04including Marilyn Monroe
22:05and Elvis Presley
22:07in a list with billionaire
22:08Les Wexner,
22:10who was listed as an Epstein
22:12co-conspirator in the Epstein files.
22:14And Les Wexner's
22:15criminal defense attorney
22:17has said that he was told
22:19by federal officials
22:21who he's never named
22:22that Les Wexner was not
22:24a co-conspirator,
22:25conspirator,
22:26and that he cooperated
22:27with the investigation.
22:29That has not been corroborated yet
22:32in the Epstein files.
22:34Marilyn Monroe died in 1962
22:36when Jeffrey Epstein
22:38was nine years old.
22:39So names mentioned in emails
22:42of historical figures
22:44are not the same
22:45as Donald Trump
22:46being mentioned
22:47in the Epstein files
22:49by one estimate
22:50over a million times.
22:52Our next guest,
22:53Carson Roe Cana,
22:54the author of The Law
22:55that forces the Trump
22:56Justice Department
22:57to release the Epstein files,
22:58says that the list
23:00of names of people
23:01has nothing to do with,
23:03who have nothing to do
23:04with Jeffrey Epstein,
23:05or is mixed in
23:06with the co-conspirators,
23:07is simply Donald Trump's
23:09Justice Department's way
23:10of trying to confuse people.
23:12Carson Cana says,
23:13quote,
23:13the DOJ is once again
23:15purposefully muddying
23:16the waters
23:17on who was a predator
23:18and who was mentioned
23:20in an email.
23:21To have Janice Joplin,
23:22who died when Epstein
23:23was 17,
23:24on the same list
23:25as Larry Nassar,
23:26who went to prison
23:27for the sexual abuse
23:29of hundreds of young women
23:30and child pornography
23:31with no clarification
23:33of how either was mentioned
23:35in the files
23:35is absurd.
23:37Donald Trump's former
23:38top aide
23:38and current supporter
23:39and confidant
23:40Steve Bannon
23:41is revealed
23:42in the Epstein files
23:43to have been,
23:44quote,
23:45advising Mr. Epstein
23:46on how to handle
23:47resurrected allegations
23:48that he was a serial pedophile.
23:50Mr. Bannon recommended
23:52which lawyers to hire,
23:53his own,
23:54when to lie low,
23:56and when he should jump
23:57on an opening
23:58to push his narrative.
24:00He scheduled
24:01what the two men
24:02called media training.
24:04And then there is
24:05this text exchange.
24:07In December of 2018,
24:09after the Democrats
24:09won control
24:10of the House of Representatives,
24:11Jeffrey Epstein says,
24:12quote,
24:13he really is borderline.
24:14Not sure what he may do.
24:16Steve Bannon replies,
24:17I think it's beyond borderline.
24:2025th Amendment.
24:22And yesterday,
24:23former Republican congressman
24:25and former Trump supporter
24:26Marjorie Taylor Greene
24:27posted this on social media.
24:28All of you mega influencers
24:30and the rest
24:32mocking the seriousness
24:33of women
24:34who were trafficked
24:34and raped as teenagers
24:36and young women
24:37look like cult fools.
24:39Good luck trying
24:40to get women
24:41to vote for Republicans
24:42in the midterms,
24:43you insensitive clowns.
24:45The Republican Party
24:46already has a woman
24:48voting problem.
24:49Keep mocking those of us
24:50who take rape
24:51and pedophilia seriously
24:53and demand accountability
24:55for corruption.
24:57Joining us now
24:57is Democratic Congressman
24:58Ro Khanna of California.
24:59He's a member
25:00of the House Oversight Committee.
25:02Congressman Khanna,
25:03you have now been
25:04officially informed
25:05that you have
25:06100% of the Epstein files.
25:11Well, that's just wrong.
25:13And it's not just
25:13Thomas Massey and I
25:14who are now calling it out.
25:16Not just Marjorie Taylor Greene
25:17who's calling it out.
25:18People like Tim Birchite,
25:20people like Nancy Mays
25:21are saying
25:22this is just not transparent.
25:23Even Senator Kennedy
25:24is saying
25:25this is not transparent.
25:27And the reality is
25:28they're muddying the water.
25:30I mean, instead of focusing
25:31on people like Lutnik,
25:34people like the ambassador
25:35in Turkey,
25:37people like the Stephen Bannon
25:39who had actual correspondence
25:41or relationships with Epstein,
25:43they're just putting out
25:44every public figure.
25:46And not only is that
25:48letting off people
25:49who actually may have been involved
25:52in illegal or immoral behavior,
25:54but it's also breeding
25:55such cynicism.
25:56Because as your monologue showed,
25:58there are people
25:59like President Obama
26:00who didn't get anywhere
26:01close to this
26:02who are decent
26:03or moral
26:04who believe in the rule of law
26:05and America's character.
26:07And for them to try
26:08to conflate everyone
26:09is a terrible disservice
26:11to democracy.
26:13What are your next steps?
26:16Well, we're contemplating
26:17several things.
26:18Nancy Mays
26:19has actually offered
26:20an idea of whether
26:21we have to have
26:22another legislative
26:23approach in Congress
26:24to clarify
26:25further the law.
26:27And remember, Lawrence,
26:29the first bill passed
26:30427 to 1
26:31and 100 to 0
26:32in the Senate.
26:33So there are veto-proof
26:34majorities that we could have.
26:36There are survivors
26:37who could bring a case
26:38before Judge Engelmeyer
26:40and Judge Berman
26:41in the Southern District
26:42of New York.
26:43Thomas Massey or I
26:44may bring that case.
26:46We, as you recall,
26:48asked for a special master
26:49for this purpose.
26:50Judge Engelmeyer ruled
26:52that we needed
26:52to actually bring a motion,
26:54an actual case,
26:55and we're contemplating that.
26:57The Epstein files,
26:59unless they're destroyed
27:00by this administration
27:02and Donald Trump
27:03gives pardons
27:03to the people
27:04who destroy them,
27:05will be there
27:06when a Democrat
27:08wins the White House
27:09next time,
27:10presumably in the next
27:10presidential election
27:11and a new attorney general.
27:13What do you anticipate
27:15they might be doing
27:16in the Justice Department
27:18in anticipation
27:19of someday
27:21having to hand over
27:22to a Democratic
27:23attorney general
27:24the Epstein files?
27:27I believe they're
27:28trying to cover up
27:30as much as they can
27:31of people close
27:32to the president
27:33or in his network.
27:35I mean, we know
27:36that the FBI
27:37already scrubbed
27:38these files
27:39with redactions
27:40and we don't know
27:41where the existing
27:42files are.
27:43But I don't want
27:44to wait three years.
27:45I mean, you have France
27:46saying that they're
27:46going to prosecute
27:47anyone who's involved.
27:49New Mexico
27:50just today said
27:50they want to open up
27:51an investigation
27:53into the ranch.
27:54You have other nations
27:55that are holding
27:58their government leaders
27:59accountable
27:59and wanting to investigate.
28:01And only in the United States
28:02of America
28:03is our DOJ saying
28:04we're done,
28:05we want to move on.
28:06No investigation,
28:07no prosecutions.
28:08And then you have
28:09a commerce secretary
28:10who's all over the files
28:12lied about it
28:13and no consequence.
28:15This is a affront
28:17to survivors
28:18and it is questioning
28:20our morality
28:21as a nation.
28:22I want to listen
28:23to more of what
28:24your legislative partner
28:25on this,
28:26Republican Thomas Massey,
28:27said on ABC yesterday.
28:31They're citing
28:32deliberative process
28:33privilege
28:34in order not to release
28:36some of the documents.
28:37The problem with that
28:38is the bill
28:39that Ro Khanna
28:39and I wrote
28:40says that they must release
28:42internal memos
28:43and notes
28:44and emails
28:45about their decisions
28:46on whether to prosecute
28:47or not prosecute,
28:48whether to investigate
28:49or not investigate.
28:51It's important
28:52they follow that
28:53because then we could find
28:54why they didn't prosecute
28:56Leslie Wexner.
28:56What was the decision tree there?
28:58And also why in 2008
29:01they gave Jeffrey Epstein
29:02such a light sentence.
29:05Carson Conor,
29:06that seems to be
29:07the very point
29:09of your legislation
29:10to get at that
29:10kind of material.
29:12Absolutely.
29:13They didn't hand us
29:14any of the information
29:16about why Jeffrey Epstein
29:18was not charged,
29:19why his co-conspirators
29:21were not charged,
29:21why these powerful men
29:23for decades
29:24got away with this
29:26and were above the law.
29:27And it's important
29:28not just for justice
29:28for survivors.
29:29It's important
29:30and a look
29:31at the two tiers
29:32of justice in America
29:33and how to fix this.
29:34But most shockingly,
29:36when Thomas Massey
29:37and I went
29:38to see the files,
29:39when Jamie Raskin
29:39has gone to see the files,
29:40Maxwell Frost
29:41has gone to see the files,
29:42they see total blanking out
29:45of the survivor statements
29:46to the FBI agents.
29:48And that is
29:49the most important thing,
29:50those 302 forums
29:51where the survivors
29:52named names
29:54of people
29:55who abused them,
29:56of people
29:57who turned
29:58a blind eye
29:59with the abuse,
30:00and they are
30:01protecting those folks.
30:02And it's not just
30:03Thomas Massey or me.
30:05Now the country
30:06is really up in arms,
30:08and this is not
30:09just going to go away.
30:10It's not going to go away
30:11because of people like you,
30:12because of the survivors,
30:13and because many Republicans
30:15now have been
30:16totally dissatisfied
30:17with how Bondi
30:18and Blanche
30:19have handled this.
30:20Carson Rochanna,
30:21thank you very much
30:22for joining us tonight.
30:23Thank you,
30:24appreciate it.
30:25Coming up,
30:26the New York Times
30:27editorial board says
30:28that the Attorney General's
30:30release of the Epstein files
30:31has shown her
30:32grotesque incompetence.
30:34We'll discuss that
30:35with Andrew Weissman next.
30:41In a lifetime
30:42of reading the New York Times,
30:44you would not read
30:44an editorial
30:45officially declaring
30:46the Attorney General
30:47of the United States
30:48to be incompetent.
30:50Until now.
30:52Saturday's New York Times
30:53editorial is titled
30:54Bondi's incompetence
30:56is the latest insult
30:58for Epstein's victims.
31:00The editorial says
31:01the hearing
31:02in the House Judiciary
31:03Committee room
31:04this week
31:04offered a grim tableau
31:06of the state
31:07of American justice.
31:08Sitting in the gallery
31:09were victims
31:10of Jeffrey Epstein,
31:11women who have waited
31:12decades for clarity
31:14and accountability.
31:15Sitting before them
31:16was Attorney General
31:17Pam Bondi.
31:17When offered the opportunity
31:19to apologize
31:20to these women
31:20for the Department
31:21of Justice's
31:22disastrous handling
31:24of the Epstein files,
31:26Ms. Bondi didn't
31:27just decline,
31:28she sneered.
31:31Ms. Bondi's performance
31:32was more than just
31:34political theater,
31:35it was a final indignity
31:36in a process
31:37that has victimized
31:38Mr. Epstein's victims
31:39all over again.
31:41Under the guise
31:42of transparency,
31:43the Justice Department
31:43has managed to expose
31:44the victims
31:45to further humiliation
31:46while shielding
31:47the powerful
31:48behind a wall
31:48of redactions.
31:50The Department's
31:51release of these files
31:52has been dominated
31:53by incompetence.
31:55Ms. Bondi
31:56has long had
31:57the authority
31:58to make them public
31:59but she spent
32:00months refusing
32:01and yielded only
32:03after Congress
32:03forced her hand.
32:05Her Department
32:06was then tasked
32:07with a clear mandate,
32:08release the information
32:10while protecting
32:11the victims' privacy,
32:13national security,
32:14and active investigations.
32:17Instead,
32:17in a grotesque failure,
32:20the DOJ uploaded
32:21dozens of unredacted images
32:23to its website
32:24including nude photographs
32:26of young women
32:27and possibly teenagers.
32:28Ms. Bondi's refusal
32:30to look the survivors
32:31in the eye
32:32was symbolic
32:33of a broader failure.
32:34The Department of Justice
32:36had an opportunity
32:37to finally prioritize
32:38the women
32:39who were preyed upon
32:40by Mr. Epstein
32:42and his circle.
32:43Instead,
32:44through a combination
32:45of malice
32:46and incompetence,
32:47it has done the opposite.
32:48It has stripped
32:49the victims
32:50of their privacy
32:51while wrapping
32:52perpetrators
32:53in a cloak
32:54of state secrecy.
32:57Joining us now
32:58is Andrew Weissman,
32:59former FBI general counsel
33:01and an MSNOW
33:02legal analyst.
33:03Andrew,
33:04that's an editorial
33:05that you could
33:06live a lifetime
33:07expecting to never read
33:09that it would ever
33:10come to this
33:10for an attorney general.
33:14Yes,
33:15and I think,
33:16I know it's beautifully
33:18written and well said,
33:20but I think that
33:21gross incompetence
33:23is in many ways
33:25charitable
33:27because some of the things
33:29that the attorney general
33:32did were deliberate.
33:34I thought its use
33:35of the term malice
33:36was particularly appropriate.
33:41so let's just talk
33:42about some deliberate
33:43things that she did.
33:45She deliberately
33:47refused
33:48to acknowledge
33:50the victims
33:51to apologize
33:53in any way,
33:55shape,
33:55or form
33:55for the way
33:56they had been treated,
33:57not just by
33:58her administration,
34:00but other administrations
34:02as well.
34:02But that's a deliberate
34:04choice.
34:04That's not incompetence.
34:06There was incompetence
34:08in the way things
34:09were released,
34:11absolutely.
34:12She deliberately
34:13decided to say
34:14that everyone knows
34:15there's no evidence
34:16that the president
34:17did anything wrong.
34:19That's simply not true.
34:21That is something
34:22that is in
34:23the released files.
34:25The allegations
34:26may prove
34:26to be untrue,
34:28but it's simply
34:29not true
34:30that there's no evidence
34:31that the president
34:32has done anything wrong.
34:34There is evidence.
34:35We just don't know
34:36whether there was
34:37an investigation
34:37into it or not.
34:39And finally,
34:39she decided
34:40that she would not
34:41tell the American people
34:42that every last document
34:44related to Donald Trump
34:46and every image
34:47of Donald Trump
34:48has now been released.
34:50Those are all
34:51deliberate choices
34:52by her
34:53that are not
34:54just the results
34:55of incompetence
34:56or malice.
34:58They are,
34:59in my view,
35:00they are things
35:00that are either
35:01just absolutely
35:02flagrantly wrong
35:03or in violation
35:04of the Epstein
35:06Transparency Act
35:07that is a congressional
35:08law that she decided
35:10to violate.
35:11On Wednesday,
35:12the committee is going
35:13to,
35:14the House committee
35:14is going to have
35:14a deposition
35:15of Les Wexner.
35:17They're going to
35:18Ohio to do that
35:19where he lives,
35:20the billionaire
35:21who's listed
35:22as a co-conspirator
35:23in some of the Epstein files
35:25with Jeffrey Epstein.
35:26He has a criminal defense
35:28who just says
35:29that someone,
35:30doesn't say who,
35:31told him
35:32that Wexner
35:33was never
35:34really a suspect.
35:35Is that the kind
35:36of thing
35:37that can be
35:39penetrated
35:39in questioning
35:40in this deposition?
35:43Absolutely.
35:44The question
35:45can be
35:46who said that?
35:48What exactly
35:48did they say?
35:49Did they say
35:50he wasn't a target
35:51or a subject
35:52of the investigation?
35:53I'd be interested
35:54in knowing that.
35:55Those are very
35:56technical words
35:57and they have
35:58some technical meanings.
35:59They can also
36:01get a sense
36:02of essentially
36:04why is it
36:05that Jeffrey Epstein
36:07with not a lot
36:08of background
36:09suddenly became
36:11so wealthy
36:12through Mr. Wexner?
36:14What was that relationship?
36:16And then also
36:17some sense
36:17of the investigation.
36:19What was actually done?
36:22What they heard?
36:23Who they've talked to
36:24about other people
36:26being investigated?
36:27That's something
36:28that Mr. Wexner
36:29likely knows.
36:31Not the full extent
36:32of what the Department
36:33of Justice did,
36:34but when you are
36:35in that position,
36:36one of the things
36:37your lawyer
36:38and investigators
36:38might do
36:39is have a real sense
36:41of who the other people
36:42are who are being
36:44targeted
36:44so you can better
36:45defend yourself.
36:46So all of that
36:47is material
36:48that can be pursued.
36:50And remember,
36:51the Epstein Transparency Act
36:52is broad
36:53as Congressman Massey
36:55said in terms
36:56of the kinds
36:57of privileges
36:57that you can claim.
36:59There are very few.
37:00The Department
37:01has taken a view
37:02that is directly
37:03contrary to the law.
37:05And so in asking
37:06these questions,
37:07remember the statute
37:08they're relying on
37:09permits them
37:10to ask very broad
37:11questions.
37:13Andrew,
37:13we have to take
37:14a break here.
37:14Please stay with us.
37:15When we come back,
37:16I want to talk
37:16about the investigation
37:17of Alex Preddy's
37:19death in Minneapolis
37:21and how the
37:22Donald Trump's
37:22Justice Department
37:23is now trying
37:24to block any access
37:25to the key evidence
37:26in that.
37:27We're going to be
37:27right back
37:27with Andrew Weissman.
37:32Today,
37:33Minnesota state officials
37:34announced that
37:35Donald Trump's
37:35Federal Bureau
37:36of Investigation
37:37is refusing
37:38to turn over evidence
37:39in the case
37:40of Veterans Affairs
37:41nurse Alex Preddy,
37:43who was shot
37:44and killed
37:45by Donald Trump's
37:46invasion forces
37:47in January
37:48in Minneapolis.
37:49In a statement,
37:50Minnesota Bureau
37:51of Criminal Apprehension
37:52Superintendent Drew Evans
37:53said the FBI
37:54formally notified
37:55the Minnesota Bureau
37:56of Criminal Apprehension
37:58on February 13th
37:59that it will not
38:01provide the BCA
38:02with access
38:03to any information
38:04or evidence
38:05that it has collected
38:07in the January 24th
38:08shooting death
38:09of Alex Preddy.
38:11While this lack
38:12of cooperation
38:12is concerning
38:13and unprecedented,
38:14the BCA
38:15is committed
38:15to thorough,
38:16independent,
38:17and transparent
38:18investigations
38:18of these incidents,
38:20even if hampered
38:21by a lack of access
38:23to key information
38:24and evidence.
38:26Andrew Weissman
38:27is back with us.
38:28Andrew,
38:28what can Minnesota do?
38:32They can sue,
38:34but I think
38:34the easiest thing here
38:36is, again,
38:38for Congress.
38:39the Democrats
38:41have said
38:42that they're going
38:43to insist
38:44if there's going
38:45to be funding
38:45that there has
38:47to be sharing
38:48of information.
38:50And I should point out
38:51it's not just
38:53Alex Preddy
38:53who was killed.
38:55It's also Renee Good.
38:57People tend
38:58to just focus
38:59on Alex Preddy,
39:00but there seems
39:01to be no investigation
39:03that the Department
39:03of Justice
39:04or anyone else
39:04is doing
39:05of that shooting.
39:06I know there's been
39:08a talk of an investigation
39:09the Department's doing
39:10of Ms. Good herself
39:12and her widow,
39:13shockingly,
39:14but not of the agents.
39:16And let me just
39:17remind people,
39:18there's no good reason
39:20if you're not
39:21protecting these agents
39:23to not give access
39:25to the state
39:27so there can be
39:28an independent
39:28and fair investigation.
39:31My question would be,
39:32what are you so afraid of?
39:34Why are you not doing this?
39:35And Congress
39:37really has
39:38the ability here
39:39to say,
39:40you know what,
39:40we're not going
39:40to fund an agency
39:42that acts like this.
39:44Final quick point,
39:46the other man
39:47who was shot
39:48by ICE
39:49in Minnesota,
39:51there now
39:52is very good evidence
39:54that ICE
39:54lied about that shooting.
39:56The case against him
39:58was dismissed.
39:59There were reports
39:59that there now
40:00is an investigation,
40:01which is good,
40:02of those agents.
40:04So there's
40:05substantial reason,
40:07although they're
40:08different agents,
40:09it's the same
40:10Trump administration
40:11agencies
40:12who are at issue here.
40:14There's substantial reason
40:15to have an independent
40:16investigation
40:17of what is going on
40:19and sort of
40:20how out of control
40:21is ICE
40:22in Minnesota
40:23and is somebody
40:24going to be held
40:24responsible.
40:26The county prosecutor
40:27who we've had
40:28on this program
40:29repeatedly talking about this,
40:30who has jurisdiction
40:31over these homicide cases,
40:32is absolutely determined
40:34to go ahead
40:36with this
40:37as a homicide investigation,
40:39even if she doesn't
40:41get the evidence
40:43that's currently
40:43in the possession
40:44of the FBI.
40:46Look,
40:47I think that's terrific
40:48and it's great
40:49that she does that,
40:50but you know what?
40:51Prosecutors have to,
40:52if they are going
40:53to bring a case,
40:54they have to prove
40:55something beyond
40:56a reasonable doubt.
40:57And so you want
40:59your hands on
41:00all of the forensic evidence.
41:02You want to be able
41:03to answer any question
41:05that the defense raises.
41:07And so that is really
41:09going to be like
41:10trying to bring a case
41:11with one arm
41:12tied behind your back.
41:13And there's no reason for it.
41:15I mean, to me,
41:16at some point,
41:16this really looks like
41:17obstruction
41:18of their investigation.
41:20It's remarkable to me
41:22that we are funding
41:23an agency
41:24that is acting like this.
41:25Let me just make sure
41:26people understand
41:27what the state
41:28is asking for
41:29is access
41:30to the information.
41:31They're not saying
41:32that we want to take it
41:33and exclude
41:34the Federal Bureau
41:36of Investigation
41:37or any other agency.
41:38It simply says
41:39they can share it.
41:41There's no good reason
41:42not to allow
41:44that kind of sharing
41:45in this case.
41:47Andrew Weissman,
41:48thank you very much
41:49for joining us tonight.
41:50You're welcome.
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