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The Last Word with Lawrence ODonnell - Season 13 - Episode 17
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00:00...word with Lawrence O'Donnell. Good evening, Lawrence.
00:02Good evening, Rachel. We learned during your hour that Donald Trump is in retreat,
00:07especially with that news about Bovino being out. But I was really struck in your interview
00:12with Senator Klobuchar that the White House chief of staff texted her, contacted her earlier today
00:18to tell her what was coming. You add that to Donald Trump's social media post saying he's
00:24now having good phone calls with the governor and the mayor. And that's Donald Trump telling you
00:30he knows this is hurting him. That's right. This is a political fight. They want what they're doing
00:38to be outside of politics. They want what they're doing to be just physical force and intimidation
00:44and menace and weapons and violence, right? That's it. But this is still a country where there is a
00:50democracy and the political winds blowing against them have now blown them down. Not by violence,
00:56not by civil war, not by some sort of meeting guns with guns confrontation, but rather by politically,
01:04small d democratically, peacefully standing up to them. And they just got wiped out by this thing.
01:09They did the wrong thing in a way that activated too many different types of political democratic
01:15force against them. And now they've just crumbled. And, you know, let this be the first of many,
01:21honestly, if they're going to keep trying stuff like this.
01:23Rachel, in Minnesota, as you know, they don't call them district attorneys. They call them county
01:28attorneys. And we have our first guest tonight, county attorney Mary Moriarty, who has jurisdiction
01:35over murder cases in Minneapolis. She joined us last week and she said last week that she is going to
01:42be
01:43conducting investigations of these killings. And she believes that there is still a definite
01:50ability for the state of Minnesota, the county to actually bring charges in these cases, if that's
01:56what the evidence warrants when they examine it. Yeah. I mean, it seems like the federal government
02:01is doing their best to try to prevent the state crime of murder from being charged here or any related
02:09crimes to these, any crimes that may pertain to these killings. But they don't have the final word
02:14on that. The states do. If they want to charge it, they can. And if they feel like they can
02:18charge it,
02:19they can. That's going to be a fascinating conversation, Lawrence. Yeah. And Donald Trump can
02:23pardon every federal agent that he wants to and probably will pardon the entire ICE staff.
02:30But that's just for federal prosecutions. That does not protect them from a state prosecution
02:34in Minnesota. So we're going to get right to that. That's right. Good. Good. Good on you,
02:39Lawrence. See you soon. Thanks, Richard. Thank you. Well, Donald Trump is running scared tonight
02:46because we are all witnesses now. Donald Trump is posting on social media today and tonight that he had
02:53a good phone call with the governor of Minnesota, who Donald Trump has been demonizing until today.
03:01And he's not demonizing him anymore because we are all witnesses now.
03:06Tonight, Donald Trump posted that he had a good phone call with the mayor of Minneapolis,
03:10who Donald Trump has been calling a communist and attacking in the most unhinged Trumpian ways.
03:15But Donald Trump is making conciliatory public statements tonight about wanting to cooperate
03:20now with the governor of Minnesota and wanting to cooperate now with the mayor of Minneapolis because
03:28Donald Trump is running scared tonight. Donald Trump is in retreat tonight. And Donald Trump is running
03:35scared because we are all witnesses now. When we see the video, we become eyewitnesses. And if we watch
03:44all of the videos of what Donald Trump and his Border Patrol agents did to Alex Preddy,
03:50we then become better eyewitnesses than the people who would be allowed to testify at a murder trial
03:58as eyewitnesses because they were there on the scene. Some of those eyewitnesses were recording
04:04video at the same time, which actually distracts from what they can take in as eyewitnesses in that
04:10moment because they are also camera operators as well as eyewitnesses. Contrary to popular opinion
04:16and Hollywood portrayals, eyewitness testimony is not as reliable as factual circumstantial
04:23evidence is like ballistics reports and autopsies, which are often the most solid evidence in any murder
04:30case. Professor Elizabeth Loftus' groundbreaking work on eyewitness testimony, including the books she
04:37written about eyewitness testimony, have shown all of the human weaknesses that come with standard
04:43eyewitness testimony. An eyewitness might honestly believe someone was shot in the back and another
04:49eyewitness might not be so sure. But if the autopsy shows an entrance wound in the back, then that is
04:56not just evidence. That is proof beyond a reasonable doubt of being shot in the back. And the autopsy is
05:03technically circumstantial evidence, but it's better evidence often than eyewitness testimony.
05:08Each eyewitness only has their individual angle on what they can see. But when we collect multiple
05:15videos of the same shooting of Alex Preddy, and we watch all of those videos, we become the best
05:23eyewitnesses to that shooting. We are all witnesses now. And eyewitnesses have a right to believe what they
05:32see. Eyewitnesses have a right to reach conclusions about what they see. And since we are all now
05:38eyewitnesses to two of Donald Trump's agents he sent to Minnesota firing 10 shots into a man face down on
05:45the pavement and killing that man in a matter of seconds, we can all look at the video and conclude
05:50beyond a reasonable doubt that every shot fired after the first shot is murder, not negligent homicide.
05:58That might be what the first shot is, because an analysis of the videos show that an agent in a
06:05gray jacket removed a handgun from Alex Preddy's right hip and rushed away with that handgun. And
06:10immediately after he removed that handgun and stepped away, the first shot was fired into Alex
06:17Preddy's back or the back of his head. And that first shot could have been because the man in the
06:22gray
06:22jacket said there's a gun. But the gun was already removed when that first shot was fired.
06:29So that first shot could have been a mistake within that space of interaction. And that shot fired less
06:38than three feet away from Alex Preddy very, very likely killed him, the autopsy will tell us.
06:43But what happens next on the video, as you will see in a moment, is that all of the agents,
06:49all of them, upon hearing that first shot, start backing away from the now lifeless body. They're walking
06:58backwards away from the body. And as they walk backwards away from the body, they fully reveal
07:07and are looking at a motionless body lying face down in front of them on the pavement with nothing else
07:15around that body. And they can all see absolutely no threat posed to anyone by that body, which is
07:24probably a dead body at that point. And that is when two and only two of those agents decide to
07:33continue
07:33to pump bullets into Alex Preddy's body. And that decision is murder. It is a decision, not a reflex.
07:42Each shot fired by law enforcement officer has to be a decision, not a reflex. Law enforcement officers
07:50are supposed to be trained to assess the situation after each shot fired to determine if another shot
07:58needs to be fired. There are several agents positioned around Alex Preddy's body, and most of
08:06them decide there is absolutely no reason to fire a gun while those other two agents are firing their
08:15guns. And the agents who didn't fire their guns, who knew there was absolutely no threat to their
08:21lives or anyone else's, those agents were right. And the killers of Alex Preddy were wrong.
08:26And that is what the facts before us right now prove beyond a reasonable doubt.
08:32We're going to show you now the 24-second video, a disturbing video shot from the angle that shows
08:39that the shots are still being fired as the officers have stepped backward, far into a safety zone.
08:50It is correct to step backward. That's where the safety is. And they have stepped backward
08:56into the safety zone, away from that man lying face down on the pavement. And two of them decide
09:03it's time to shoot him several more times.
09:10Here is that video.
09:14They're doing too much, man. And they keep pushing people, you know?
09:17They keep pushing people, you know, they keep pushing people, you know?
09:34They keep pushing people, you know?
09:41The next video you're about to see, and take the time, if you care to, to go online and watch
09:48these videos again yourself.
09:50We're only showing them once. They go by in seconds. They're very quick. The action's very quick.
09:54You might want to watch it more than once to understand what you're seeing or see the New York Times
09:57analysis of the videos that's available online.
10:01But this next video shows Alex Preddy trying to be helpful, not to Donald Trump's federal agents, but to the
10:08people in the area.
10:10Cars trying to pass through. Alex Preddy is directing traffic to those cars, trying to help out those motorists.
10:16And then Alex Preddy tries to be helpful to a woman with an orange backpack who is assaulted by Donald
10:23Trump's Border Patrol agents.
10:26That agent committed the crime of assault and battery.
10:29The agent you will see committing the crime of assault and battery against that woman, because that's what it is,
10:36beyond a reasonable doubt on that video, that is assault and battery.
10:39That agent is one of the killers of Alex Preddy.
10:43Keep that in mind as you watch this video.
10:46It begins with the crime of assault and battery committed by an agent who then goes on to commit murder.
10:53Alex Preddy, you will see, commits no crime.
10:56Alex Preddy tries to help the woman who has been assaulted.
11:02And then Alex Preddy gets assaulted.
11:05And Alex Preddy and the woman both fall to the ground.
11:09And that woman is alive today only because, as you will see on this video, when she's on the ground,
11:18being assaulted by Donald Trump's Border Patrol agents, she does everything she possibly can to crawl away from the agent
11:26who is assaulting her and trying to hold her in place.
11:29And because she was successful and crawling as far away as she did from Alex Preddy and from that agent,
11:37she is alive tonight.
11:43Those ten bullets would have been used to probably murder her, too.
11:49Those nine bullets fired at Alex Preddy after the first shot had probably already killed him.
11:58Those nine bullets would have found her in that kind of shooting spree if she hadn't done everything she possibly
12:05could to get away from Donald Trump's federal agents who's trying to hold her in place.
12:13So watch Alex Preddy directing traffic, trying to be helpful.
12:16Watch the woman with the orange backpack get assaulted, illegally assaulted by that agent.
12:22Watch her fall to the ground.
12:24Watch Alex Preddy fall to the ground.
12:28This will go by in seconds, that action.
12:32It's very disturbing to watch.
12:34Here is that video.
12:40Here is that video.
12:54What the f**k is wrong with you?
12:59What the f**k is wrong with you?
13:13What the f**k is wrong with you?
13:16Honestly.
13:18What the f**k is wrong with you?
13:20Honestly.
13:26What the f**k is wrong with you?
13:30Honestly.
13:33What the f**k did you just do?
13:36What the f**k did you just do?
13:39What the f**k?
13:41What the f**k?
13:43Oh my God.
13:47Oh my God.
13:49Oh my God.
13:51Oh my God.
13:54Oh my God.
13:54Oh my God.
13:55The f**k did you just do?
13:58The f**k did you just do?
14:05somebody called the ambulance somebody called the ambulance somebody needs to call the ambulance
14:13somebody called 911 i can't believe they just did that holy holy
14:22just hey come on come on oh my god you people man you're killing us why would you do that
14:41oh my god oh my god i can't believe i'm seeing this
14:47come on come on come on come here come on come here
14:57it is
15:10that blurring was inserted in the video by the network
15:14to block the actual sight of alex preddy's body lying on the pavement there
15:21and when you watch that video in the aftermath of the murder
15:26the question becomes why didn't they kill them all
15:29why didn't they kill them all
15:32there were other brave people on that street
15:35who continued to record on video what those agents had done and what they were doing you can see a
15:44woman in that video getting up very close very close to where the shooting occurred after the shooting
15:52why didn't they kill her alex preddy didn't do anything more than what she was doing
15:58she instead those agents after they've killed someone after that they've cooled down
16:05enough not to kill everyone in sight after they've killed one that's what it takes to get them to decide
16:14oh this is not a situation in which we have to kill anyone including this woman who's coming up very
16:19close to us now with her camera and in the end you see her bending over in agony at what
16:24she has witnessed why wasn't she killed if it was legitimate
16:28to kill alex preddy
16:31remember the presumption of innocence is only a theory a legal theory it is a legal theory designed to structure
16:41criminal prosecutions
16:42the structure of a criminal prosecution is based on that theory of presumption of innocence that's the way the process
16:51is constructed and that for example is why
16:53there's no requirement in american law there's no requirement in american law that the defendant must testify in other countries
16:59defendants do have to testify but not here because of the presumption of innocence which binds absolutely no one no
17:06one other than a jury the only people who are charged with observing the presumption of innocence at the outset
17:15of a criminal trial are the jury the prosecutor doesn't presume innocence that's why the prosecutor is there
17:23the prosecutor presumes guilt beyond a reasonable doubt in that room and makes that case in that room no one
17:31in the general public is required to presume innocence of criminal defendants or potential criminal defendants no one in the
17:38news media is required by any judicial principle to presume innocence but the news media cowered by the phrase presumption
17:45of innocence and failing to comprehend it ends up often softening language and coverage of what we can all see
17:53because we are all witnesses now donald trump's dangerously buffoonish fbi director who was chosen as an insult to the
18:04fbi said this
18:08you do not get to attack law enforcement officials in this country without any repercussions you do not get to
18:14do that in minnesota la or anywhere else
18:18oh yes you do these people got to do that and they got to do that because they were doing
18:26it for donald trump they were attacking police office for donald trump and they did it without any repercussions because
18:34they did it for donald trump and donald trump pardoned every single one of them because they attacked police officers
18:42and tried to beat them to death for donald trump
18:45trump trump trump ism means believing that if you don't support donald trump the united states constitution does not support
18:53you you have no rights granted under the constitution if you don't support donald trump rights are granted by donald
19:00trump to trump supporters that is trumpism as perfectly articulated just then by his buffoonish fbi director
19:09donald trump is removing greg bovino as the commander of his invasion forces in minneapolis and replacing him with who
19:18could it be
19:19tom holman who was recorded on an fbi video accepting fifty thousand dollars in cash during the last trump presidential
19:27campaign from fbi undercover agents
19:32donald trump's donald trump's justice department closed down that investigation of donald trump's friend tom holman but that investigation can
19:40be reopened three years from now when a democrat is president
19:44and we will eventually see that video of tom holman accepting the fifty thousand dollars from the fbi undercover agents
19:53alex preddy was an intensive care unit nurse at a veterans hospital donald trump of course doesn't care about veterans
20:03at all but he pretends to as a politician and as a campaigner alex preddy
20:07devoted his life to veterans devoted his life to saving their lives and he did i for one didn't understand
20:16that nurses are the greatest heroes who
20:18walk among us until i was hospitalized for the first time in 2014 after being injured in the backseat of
20:24a taxi cab in a head-on collision
20:25that's when i became for the first time fully dependent on nurses for months i was in awe of their
20:32quiet competence and heroism and devotion
20:35i loved my nurses and still do we can never thank our nurses enough and the one thing i know
20:42about alex preddy's life is that he was never thanked
20:44enough no matter how hard people tried to thank him because we the patients can never find the words big
20:51enough
20:51to express our gratitude and love to our nurses alex preddy's last words were words he said thousands upon thousands
21:03of times in his life as a nurse in his work as a nurse alex preddy's last words were are
21:12you okay
21:13that's what he asked the one the woman with the orange backpack who he was trying to help he was
21:19trying to protect
21:20are you okay that's what he was worried about not himself are you okay
21:28jessica hauser posted this on social media i was alex preddy's final nursing student he was my friend and my
21:35nursing mentor
21:37for the past four months i stood shoulder to shoulder with him during my capstone preceptorship
21:43at the minneapolis va hospital there he trained me to care for the sickest of the sick as an icu
21:50nurse he taught
21:51me how to care for arterial and central lines the intricacies of managing multiple ivs filled with life-saving
21:58solutions and how to watch over every heartbeat every breath and every flicker of life ready to act the
22:08moment they wavered techniques intended to heal alex carried patience compassion and calm as a steady light
22:17within him even at the very end that light was there i recognized his familiar stillness and signature
22:24calm composure shining through during those unbearable final moments captured on camera
22:29it does not surprise me that his final words were are you okay caring for people was at the core
22:37of who
22:38he was he was incapable of causing harm he lived a life of healing and he lived it well i
22:45am a better nurse
22:46because of the wisdom and skills he instilled in me i carry his light with me into every room
22:52letting it guide and steady my hands as i heal and care for those in need take one step no
23:00matter how small
23:01to help heal our world through these acts carry his light forward in his name let his legacy continue to
23:12heal
23:14the nation's largest union of registered nurses issued a statement saying that they quote seek justice
23:22for the murder by federal immigration agents of fellow registered nurse alex preddy
23:29we nurses are forever patient advocates and that means we will fight to protect you at the bedside and
23:36we will fight to protect you in the streets just as alex was doing when he was executed in cold
23:41blood
23:43by border patrol imagine being the parents of a 37 year old life-saving nurse in perfect health
23:50imagine being the parents of any 37 year old to discover on saturday morning that your 37 year old
23:56son who woke up in perfect health in minneapolis is now dead dead from any cause a car accident maybe
24:04imagine that i for one cannot imagine how parents can ever manage to cope with the grief of the death
24:10of
24:11their child at any age we parents are supposed to go first not our children
24:16michael and susan preddy were hit with that devastating knee-buckling grief
24:23and then they were hit with donald trump's lies
24:26and donald trump's homeland security secretary's even worse lies about their son
24:33and then they were hit on sunday morning with more lies on tv from the always lying greg bovino
24:40the leader of donald trump's invasion forces in minnesota
24:43and even donald trump's treasury secretary of all people could not resist
24:48lying about michael and susan preddy's son on sunday morning tv imagine with all they had to bear
24:54alex preddy's parents had to compose and put out a written statement i would not be able to compose a
25:02single sentence under those circumstances but through it all through the pain the grief the unrelenting
25:10agony the weight of all of that michael and susan preddy composed themselves enough
25:20to say this we are heartbroken but also very angry alex was a kind-hearted soul who cared deeply for
25:29his
25:29family and friends and also the american veterans whom he cared for
25:36as an icu nurse at the minneapolis va hospital alex wanted to make a difference in this world
25:41unfortunately he will not be with us to see his impact i do not throw around the hero term lightly
25:48however his last thought and act was to protect a woman these sickening lies told about our son by
25:55the administration are reprehensible and disgusting alex is clearly not holding a gun when attacked by
26:02trump's murdering and cowardly ice thugs he has his phone in his right hand and his empty left hand is
26:10raised above his head while trying to protect the woman ice just pushed down all while being pepper
26:18sprayed please get the truth out about our son he was a good man thank you
26:29hennepin county attorney mary moriarty who has prosecutorial jurisdiction over murder cases
26:35in minneapolis in minneapolis will join us next
26:41a trump justice spartan lawyer told a federal judge in minneapolis today this whole event rose out of a
26:47federal immigration matter was conducted by federal officers doing their federal duty and the aftermath
26:53whatever happened is a federal matter joining us now is hennepin county attorney mary moriarty who has
27:02jurisdiction over homicide investigations in minneapolis are you conducting a homicide investigation
27:08of the killing of alex preddy yes we are doing that in conjunction with the bureau of criminal
27:15apprehension can i say though before that i i saw the preddy statement and our victim witness people were
27:23going to reach out to the parents and i asked them to convey that i would make every effort on
27:28every
27:28interview i did to talk about who michael or alex preddy really was and not let the lies about him
27:34go
27:35on challenge so thank you so much for talking about who he really was well in a situation like this
27:42and an investigation like this to what extent is the is the case informed by who alex preddy actually
27:51is how relevant is his behavior in life leading up to this moment well most of the investigation is
27:59about what actually happened there um i think if his motivations were challenged or we had to look into
28:05why he was there um who he was might make more of a difference there but we're pretty focused on
28:11what
28:11happened there at the scene what he did uh what the ice agents did and we you know some of
28:18the videos
28:18you showed we've got those and many many more we've synced them into you know so you can see every
28:24angle of it and we've watched those many many many times we're also interviewing witnesses um and just
28:31trying to gather all of the information that we can so we have a full picture now as you know
28:37uh not only
28:38do we have to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that an agent or agent shot and killed him we have
28:44to be
28:44able to disprove a defense that law enforcement has that uh what they did was not objectively
28:51reasonable and then you add on to this the idea that if we do charge they are going to try
28:56to remove
28:57it to federal court there are some different challenges here than you would see in ordinary
29:03prosecutions of homicide cases you told us last week uh that if it does if a case like this is
29:10removed
29:10to federal court you the local prosecutors would still be the prosecutors on the case yes uh which
29:18is very unusual um so we would expect if we did charge that they would attempt to remove the case
29:24to federal court uh we would uh challenge that but ultimately we don't really have a choice in that
29:31but if it did go to federal court we would still be the prosecutors it would not be the u
29:36.s attorney's
29:36office and most importantly probably state law still applies so if somebody were to be convicted in
29:43federal court uh on our case uh trump could not pardon that person and uh as you go forward uh
29:52this is this
29:53the same approach you're taking uh in the renee good case yes unfortunately uh we've had to take that
30:02approach uh in in both of those cases but also the third shooting uh where a man was shot in
30:08the leg
30:09last week we are also investigating that uh in conjunction with the bca so you're in complete
30:15disagreement with the uh trump defense uh justice department lawyer who said in federal court today
30:21that the aftermath whatever happened is a federal matter not at all uh people two people that were
30:29residents in our community were shot and killed it does not matter who those people work for they
30:35were shot and killed in hennepin county we have jurisdiction over this now the federal government
30:40could have jurisdiction over it as well but that does not preclude us from proceeding with a case should
30:47we think that that's appropriate and you need only look at the uh melissa hortman assassination
30:52where we do have joint um or dual prosecutions going forward the feds are going first and we're
31:00waiting patiently until they finish with him and then we'll go forward with our prosecution that was
31:05not a law enforcement agent but that is certainly how it should work hennepin county prosecutor mary
31:12moriarty thank you very much for joining us tonight of course thank you and coming up we'll be joined by
31:19two law enforcement experts to consider just how reasonable it was was it a reasonable practice
31:24to fire those shots at alex preddy that's next
31:33we just heard hennepin county prosecutor mary moriarty say that the question she will be
31:37focused on in her homicide investigation of the killing of alex preddy is whether there was
31:43any reasonable justification for law enforcement to fire 10 shots at him and joining us now to
31:50consider that question are mark claxton director of the black law enforcement alliance and a retired
31:55nypd detective also with us kirk burkhalter professor of law at new york law school where he is the
32:01director of the 21st century policing project he is also a retired nypd detective mark claxton what do you
32:09see when you put all these videos together what i see are several violations of doj's own policies
32:20multiplied exponentially and i think along with the use of force policies doj has adopted which is
32:27kind of the national standard imminent threat of serious physical harm or death to yourself or others
32:36uh... there was a violation of also their their de-escalation requirement uh along with the
32:44affirmative duty to uh intervene which deals specifically with intervening on your partner's
32:51misconduct or some uh conduct on the street there uh you can directly intervene you're required to
32:58directly intervene i didn't see any intervention uh to attempt to to de-escalate or to uh
33:05uh uh uh eliminate this threat that was obviously posed by the ice or border patrol agents themselves
33:13and then also affirmative duty to render aid i didn't see and i don't know if if if you have
33:20seen any video about this but i haven't seen any uh rendering of aid immediately following the shooting
33:25what i saw was some retreat by these quote unquote professional law enforcement individuals so
33:30there are several different layers of policy violations along with the atrocity of this
33:37enforcement operation kirk burkhalter what what do you see in the videos what jumps out uh to me
33:47is the ramifications of a uh law enforcement officers who are not trained for the mission that uh they were
33:55asked to do the tactics are appear to be poor uh this is a classic example of contagious fire they
34:04are
34:04gassing themselves when they're deploying tear gas and they are as you mentioned in your opening um
34:13committing assaults if law enforcement if you put your hands on someone you push them down uh
34:19that may be necessary force for arrest but if there's no arrest then that's a crime so for me
34:27the majority of this leads back to as far as the officers are concerned these agents uh not trained
34:34for this mission whatsoever it's just taking a group of folks and throwing them out there and asking
34:40them to enforce the law this is the result i'm so glad you mentioned uh the contagious fire phenomenon
34:48because that that was a point that i saw and and wanted to include in our analysis and and mark
34:53that's
34:53the phenomenon we've seen it uh for for as long as we've been studying these cases that one officer in
34:59a group fires and that creates a contagion effect with someone else firing thinking uh not not knowing where
35:06the threat was coming from necessarily there's a lot of reasons for it but that that multiple uh
35:11shot situation from multiple shooters is always a fascinating thing to see especially when most of the
35:19officers who have exactly the same opportunity see no reason to fire their weapons yeah and that's it
35:25that's important to point out and what it shows is that uh a professional law enforcement person
35:30understands quite clearly that each individual officer or agent is responsible for each trigger
35:38pull or discharge of that weapon they have to make individual assessments about what is an imminent
35:44threat of serious physical harm or death to themselves and they have to make those decisions not part of
35:52group think because that's when you get into these contagious situations but they have to respond based on
35:58their own individual assessments uh not necessarily influenced by their partners so you have that
36:06situation and you also have this other element of of officer created jeopardy that oftentimes comes into
36:12play in these situations where it is the law enforcement professional who is initiating the actions that lead
36:20to a situation where there is a a fatal confrontation and then they come back to say well we were
36:26put in a
36:27position where there was an imminent threat to ourselves yeah the first shooting of this kind that i ever
36:33studied uh a shooting in boston in 1975 was one officers started firing because the other officer started
36:40firing for for exactly that reason uh kirk as a lawyer what do you see uh in terms of this
36:45case as a
36:46homicide investigation a homicide is is a legally neutral word it just means a human being killed a human being
36:52uh sometimes justified uh sometimes justified uh sometimes not but what do you see here as a lawyer
36:56in this case well it will turn on reasonableness the uh agents involved whether they can articulate
37:05that their use of force was reasonable based on their experiences in the light of all circumstances
37:13i will tell you this is uh quite a hill for them to climb we have video of the gun
37:18being removed
37:19prior to uh the shots were being fired did the officer that removed the weapon uh call out to the
37:28other officers that he had removed the weapon um this man was on the ground and multiple multiple
37:36officers were trying to subdue him was it necessary to shoot him we heard these reports that he
37:43brandished a weapon never brandished a weapon it's going to be difficult but that reasonableness right
37:48that's what law enforcement officers must articulate when explaining the use of force
37:53in the face of criminal charges kirk burkhalter and mark claxton thank you both very much for joining
38:01us tonight you're quite welcome and coming up andrew weissman will join us next
38:09today minnesota's deputy attorney general brian carter told a federal judge
38:13quote if this is not stopped right here right now i don't think anybody who is seriously looking at
38:20this problem can have much faith in how our republic is going to go in the future joining us now
38:29is
38:29andrew weissman former fbi general counsel and an ms now legal analyst andrew uh stark terms for this
38:36point in uh the american legal process where what's your assessment of where we are tonight
38:44well i have a legal assessment and i have a sort of policy assessment and it's really hard to start
38:50with the legal even though i know that's that's why i'm here um i think that i'm going to start
38:55with
38:55a policy point of view which is everything that's happening in minnesota is is not about the sort of
39:04agents on the ground and the my view lawless completely lawless behavior that we're seeing
39:10because none of that happens um without the impunity that has been afforded them by the white house
39:18they're they're carrying out sort of the literal marching orders of the white house so we may see
39:25that christy noem is sort of now bypassed and um and that uh agent bovino is moved away that to
39:34me
39:35to be very blunt is lipstick on a pig that doesn't make any difference whatsoever if the policy doesn't
39:42change um and on the legal front there are challenges based on the 10th amendment the first
39:47amendment the fourth amendment um you have to remember the district judges here are in a very
39:55very conservative and somewhat erratic um circuit and we've already seen one injunction um be overturned
40:04by the eighth circuit you know just a few hours ago um and so i think the real answer here
40:10is going
40:11to be on the the sort of the people being on the streets reacting to what's going on and the
40:16pressure
40:16that politicians the news agencies put on um the the administration in terms of what's happening
40:24as the uh local prosecutors look at this the these two uh homicides that we've seen there uh knowing
40:33that they're on their own uh that they are going to have to try to do this investigation on their
40:38own
40:39federal government could be withholding evidence they could have a years-long battle trying to get
40:44evidence uh from the federal government handed over to them uh isn't it a very a possibly messy uh
40:51legal future here um that part is a messy legal future they are doing all the right things there
40:59is uh pending litigation to have a turnover of evidence to have evidence preserved i want to make
41:06sure people understand what the federal government has said today in court that when federal agents
41:13go to minneapolis go to minneapolis even if they commit a state crime and not just any state crime the
41:19state crime of murder that the local police department has absolutely nothing to do about that they can
41:28they have no jurisdiction um that the federal government can come in commit murder and that the locals
41:36do not have the ability to act that is the statement of the trump administration today in court that that
41:46cannot be the law and i really do not think that will be the law final point the statute of
41:53limitations on
41:54murder is forever um and so this is something that this may be justice delayed but there may not be
42:03justice
42:03denied so glad you made the point about the statute of limitations andrew weissman thank you very much
42:08for joining us tonight you're welcome we'll be right back
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