- 2 days ago
David Pollack joined Shan and RJ to preview the upcoming NFL Draft. Pollack discussed the Cowboys' desperate need for defensive help at every level, weighed the value of drafting a "plug-and-play" corner like Mansoor Delane versus an edge rusher and more.
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00:00He's a College Football Hall of Famer. He's got the YouTube show. You've seen him on ESPN, and he has
00:05the new book.
00:06David Pollack joining us to preview the draft here on the Home of the Cowboys 105.3 The Fan.
00:11Good morning, David. How are you?
00:12Good morning. I'm doing great. How are you fellas doing?
00:14Doing well. Thank you for joining us. Are you absolutely loving that linebacker is back as a possible top five
00:21selection?
00:22And what are your thoughts on Sonny Stiles?
00:25No, I'm loving that linebackers and pass rushers are getting the value they deserve.
00:30That's what I'm loving, right?
00:31Like, we've just seen so much, man, like of, you know, especially at linebacker, though, you're right, especially at running
00:37back.
00:37Like, you've just seen them be extremely devalued over the years.
00:40So now, what does that mean?
00:42Sonny Stiles has to be an alien.
00:44That's what that means, right?
00:45Like, he definitely has to be something extremely different.
00:48And when you watch them at Ohio State, you saw the playmaking.
00:51You saw the ability to diagnose, to run.
00:54And then when you go to combine and you put together that kind of stuff and you got that kind
00:58of body, it shows you why you could see he was a safety when he came into Ohio State because
01:03of his build.
01:04And then he grew and grew and kept getting stronger and stronger.
01:07And he's just one of those guys that's a game changer, a freak.
01:10So you can talk about that being a guy that you go up to get.
01:13But I also love the pass rushers, man.
01:16There's so many great pass rushers in this draft.
01:19And so many guys that can put their hand in the dirt, that have developed moves, and you can tell
01:24they're further down the road than they used to be.
01:27And you can tell the defensive line continues to grow.
01:29You know, David, there's always, back in the day, used to be the discussion of some of these tweeners or
01:35like a jack-of-all-trades, master-of-none, and how that would typically kind of ding you.
01:39Has the NFL, you think, become so multiple and positionless that it's starting to help these guys like Stiles, a
01:48converted safety to a linebacker, or Reese, who people are saying, well, he's a linebacker and an edge, or Downs,
01:52who could play nickel or he could play safety.
01:54Are those guys, you think, have benefited from sort of the evolution of NFL defenses?
02:00Yes, and NFL defenses, obviously, you know, the offense is because of what they've done, because of the spacing, because
02:06of the more pass-happy nature of it.
02:08Like, it got everybody smaller, and everybody's doing seven-on-sevens growing up, and the pass game has gotten so
02:14good, you had to have a level of skill.
02:16But, like, you think about linebackers, man, like, you've got to be physical enough to play the run.
02:21You've got to be fast enough to play in space and to coverage.
02:24And the third element of being a great linebacker is, or you're a blitzer, well, you've got to have two
02:29of those three.
02:31Very rarely do you see somebody like Sonny that has all three that can blitz, that can cover, that can
02:36play the run really, really well.
02:37Well, you need two of the three, but what you're seeing is you've got a lot of guys that you
02:41don't have to be as big as you used to be so you can be more skilled.
02:44You can be great in coverage and a great blitzer and not as great against the run and still be
02:49very, very successful.
02:51The hybrid players on defense has really changed the game, man.
02:54So many guys that, you know, that are safe.
02:56I mean, look at Caleb Downs, right?
02:57Like, he's a safety.
02:58He could be a linebacker if you need him.
03:00He could be a nickel corner.
03:01Like, the added element of helping you disguise now and being able to do multiple things, obviously, that's where the
03:08defenses have kind of caught up.
03:10I'm not going to say that they're, you know, ahead of offenses, but they're way ahead of what they used
03:14to be of showing one thing, having versatile guys that they can continue to rotate in and have, you know,
03:20different discernible traits that can win.
03:22But David Pollock with us here on 105.3 The Fan.
03:25When you look at the Cowboys and just how awful their defense was last year, obviously, it looks like Arvel
03:31Reese, David Bailey from Texas Tech.
03:33Those are going to be guys that go well outside the range of the Cowboys.
03:36But there's talk that any other defender basically could potentially slide to Dallas based on how things play out ahead
03:42of them.
03:42If you were the Cowboys and you're looking at these defenders outside of Bailey and Reese, who are you really
03:46crossing your fingers like, man, if Dallas could get that guy to fall to them,
03:50they would be so much better off with their defense next year.
03:53Well, I like how you didn't sugarcoat it because the defense was very un-good.
03:59I mean, very un-good.
04:01And here's the thing.
04:02I could point to one level if I wanted to, but I could point to two, and I could point
04:07to three, and that's a problem.
04:09So it's not like you just go, hey, they're an edge player away or they're a linebacker away, they're a
04:13cornerer away.
04:13Like, we need all of them.
04:15Like, I've got to have all of those.
04:17So I think that's why it's important.
04:19You know, I've heard a lot about Dallas possibly trading up.
04:23Man, I would pick at 12 and 20 because I think you can get a really good edge player at
04:2712.
04:29I think that there's going to be plenty of them.
04:31Bain could be there.
04:32I think Mesidor is obviously going to be there at 12.
04:35The name of the game is who's going to be off the board.
04:37I think this is what you're going to have to navigate.
04:39Who's going to be off the board by the time I pick at 12?
04:42And so is that a spot where I can go get Delaney?
04:45Because I love Delaney from LSU.
04:47I think he's a great cover corner.
04:50He's got ridiculous feet, got ridiculous feel.
04:53Like, he's a plug-and-play guy.
04:54He could be your best corner.
04:56Like, that is a great thing to be able to add.
04:59When you talk about edge, man, there's so many guys with Mesidor and Young and Falk and Lawrence that are
05:04going to be there, you know, later in the first, I think, at 20.
05:07Reuben Bain is going to be fascinating to me, guys, because I didn't know T-Rexes didn't hunt.
05:14Like, I thought they'd kill everything in sight.
05:16And I watched that dude play football, and I like him.
05:19Like, that dude hunts.
05:20He's powerful.
05:21He has a pass-rust repertoire.
05:23He's got the little Reggie White hump.
05:25I love him watching him just forearm shiver people.
05:27Like, he knows how to play the freaking game.
05:30So, I think you're going to balance that because, you know, Jeremiah loved the receivers.
05:35Those guys are going to go off the board.
05:36Well, good thing you got Pickens.
05:38Good thing you can, for now.
05:39Good thing you got T.D. Lamb.
05:41Like, that's the good, I think that's the thing you got to feel really good about if you're Dallas.
05:44You're like, okay, I don't even need offense.
05:47I mean, I'm so good on offense and so, I'm so much, I'm so covered on that side of the
05:51ball.
05:52We can be explosive.
05:53We can score a bunch of points.
05:54I think it's a great job of bringing in Rashawn Gary.
05:57I think that helps because now it's not as, you know, as desperate on the edge.
06:01You brought in Durant.
06:02Quentin Williams, obviously, you saw the dividends when he came in last year.
06:06I mean, he was awesome.
06:07He was really, really good.
06:08So, you know, you start building, but you find the best players.
06:11And I know that's not sexy and that's not fun, but I would keep those picks.
06:15And then, is it an edge player?
06:17Is it a corner?
06:17I got to get both.
06:19David, settle the number two pick debate for the Jets.
06:22You have to choose.
06:25Okay, it's David Bailey.
06:27I love Arvell Reese.
06:28I love his, you know, he came in as an edge player at Ohio State,
06:32so he has some knowledge of the edge and you see him rush off the edge
06:35and he's got some good gifts.
06:37And Arvell Reese, man, that dude, when he hits you, he hits you.
06:41Like, he's got some sting in his hands.
06:43He's got some power in his hands.
06:44And I absolutely love that.
06:46He didn't have a ton of reps off the edge.
06:48And can he live there?
06:49I do think he can.
06:50Am I projecting that a little bit more?
06:53David Bailey can go get the quarterback.
06:55Like, I love watching David Bailey rush the passer.
06:58He's got a plan.
06:59He's got multiple ways to beat you.
07:01He understands the timing of a rush.
07:03He's got a really, really good first step.
07:05Like, he's a guy that I know exactly what I'm getting from him.
07:09And so, like, Arvell might be a little bit more, you might say, more upside.
07:13And, by the way, he might flash a little, Micah Parsons.
07:15And I don't know if that's a sore subject that we're not allowed to bring up.
07:19He's got some of that, man, where he blurs and he flashes and he blitzes
07:22and he's got, okay, you see a little, a lot of special in him.
07:26And I just know from a pass rush standpoint and what I saw down in, down out
07:30at a day of David Bailey, I know he's going to be a double-digit sack type guy.
07:34He's got that kind of goods when it comes to pass rush.
07:36David, I know you said you would stick at 12, you would pick at 12.
07:40You know, is there a scenario where you would go up?
07:43Or are you, do you believe also in trading back away from a good player in order
07:47to get more bodies on your roster?
07:50I do.
07:51I 100% do.
07:52I think it makes sense from a – now, listen, that's not sexy either.
07:56And fans don't always love that.
07:58But if you look at this draft, does anybody really consider this a super strong draft?
08:03Like, that's not what people consider this.
08:06They consider next year's draft a lot stronger.
08:08So, you can also get picks next year.
08:10But I think, you know, without having a second-round pick like the Cowboys,
08:14like, there's going to be great players in the second round.
08:16So, if I can move back, I can get a second-round pick.
08:19Like, I do think those things are good because I think there's a lot of really,
08:23really good football players in this draft.
08:25And the good thing for the Cowboys, to me, this is a good thing.
08:27Like, there's going to be so many receivers taken.
08:31Well, y'all don't need receivers.
08:33So, all those picks are going to be other guys that you want that are going to
08:36continue to be on the board when you get to 12, when you get to 20.
08:40Because I don't see any world where there's not six first-round picks,
08:43at least at receiver.
08:45Like, I think that's going to happen.
08:47Now, listen, the edge is going to be off the chain.
08:49It's going to be awesome, too, because I think there's probably going to be more
08:51than that.
08:52Now, corner, there's not.
08:53Right?
08:54There's not going to be that.
08:55So, in the second round, if I had a second-round pick and I could come back,
08:58I could probably, I could maybe get one of those guys, you know,
09:01at corner that could be an impact player.
09:02So, you've got to keep everything on the board.
09:05And you've got to be willing to be fluid and move.
09:07I think that's part of what your job is as a general manager.
09:09So, David, you know, the Cowboys, it seems like their big dream at 12 would be
09:14Caleb Downs.
09:14So, let's say they were to snatch up Caleb Downs there at 12.
09:17And then they're looking at pick 20.
09:18And in that range, could potentially, with this team looking for a linebacker,
09:23maybe that could be an area where C.J. Allen, the Georgia linebacker, goes.
09:26You obviously, being a Georgia guy, what do you think about Allen and his future
09:31at the NFL level?
09:33C.J. Allen, inside of his chest, has everything you've ever wanted in a football player.
09:39Like, he is one of the most studied kids I've been around.
09:44He's one of the most respectful kids I've been around.
09:48He's one of the most detailed and physical and tough.
09:51Dude had surgery last year and came back in, like, a two-week period.
09:54I mean, literally.
09:55He's just – he has got all the intangible – like, he's going to walk in a room
09:59and everybody's going to know, hey, that's the alpha.
10:03Like, he's going to walk in the room full of dudes and they're going to be like,
10:06okay, this is the dude.
10:07This is the dude that's going to have the green dot.
10:09This is the dude that's going to be making the calls.
10:11This is the guy.
10:13So, from that standpoint, I was kind of surprised, man, when he ran that 40.
10:17I was like, God dang, I hear you, C.J.
10:19Like, that was – because he looks more like an old-school linebacker.
10:23But just the feel for the game is unbelievable.
10:26But all the other stuff that comes with it – 20 is – listen, Dallas is so in need
10:33for a linebacker, it's probably not a bad pick, right?
10:36But the problem is, like, okay, can I get him later and get someone else?
10:39And that's the game you've got to play.
10:40And it's a dangerous game.
10:41But if you get C.J. Allen, I promise you not a single person in Dallas will be disappointed.
10:47How do you break up – David Pollack with us here on 105 Through the Fan –
10:49how do you break up and sort of stack for yourself that second tier of edge rushers
10:54that the Cowboys may be looking at at 20, whether that's Keldrick Falk at Auburn,
10:59you know, Akeem Mesidor of Miami, T.J. Parker Clemson, Malachi Lawrence at UCF.
11:04How do you look at that and say, like, man, if I'm sitting there at 20,
11:07this is the guy that I'm hoping on that second tier will be there for me?
11:10Yeah, and I think it's kind of like – it's kind of like your dating style, okay?
11:16So are you a base or are you a treble guy, right?
11:18Like, what is your style, right?
11:22Like, what do you like the most?
11:24And I think you're going to see some of those players like Mesidor.
11:28He's bigger.
11:29He's not like the – so he's going to have the, you know, the nice set of legs.
11:33You're going to be okay with that?
11:34Like, he's bigger.
11:36He's versatile.
11:37You can move him inside.
11:39Love the way he absolutely continues to hunt.
11:42Falk would be, by the way, in that category.
11:43He's a big, strong sucker.
11:45He's like 290 pounds, you know?
11:48And then I think you've got Parker, who's a little bit leaner.
11:50You know, the guys that – he's a little bit leaner.
11:53You see a little bit more smoothness, a little bit more athletic ability.
11:57Not as developed either.
11:59And that's the thing that I'm impressed with most with, like, Bain and Mesidor.
12:03You know who their coach is, right, in Miami?
12:06It's Jason Taylor.
12:08And my gosh, you can tell.
12:10Like, you watch those guys.
12:12And that's the hardest part when you start talking about Lawrence and Young and some of these guys.
12:17You see the physical skill set, but they don't have – they don't have the counters a lot of time
12:23to the move.
12:24They know how to go do their thing.
12:26But, like, Parker, he knows how to go win with speed and be smooth.
12:29But when you get over set, what's your answer?
12:32Like, I don't need you to have 65 moves.
12:35I need you to have one great move and one great counter.
12:39Right?
12:40So, think about that.
12:40If I can beat you with speed on the outside and I can beat you with one great move, you
12:44have to play that.
12:45When you play that, how do I beat you on the inside?
12:47And so, you know, you see some guys that are obviously, you know, more versatile.
12:51Some guys are a little bit bigger.
12:53Some guys are a little bit smaller.
12:54A little bit more – you know, some of them have a little bit more speed.
12:56But all of those guys, man, you like them.
12:59I would say if you're going to ask me who I like the most, I like Mesidor the most.
13:03Because he's not a small sucker.
13:05You know, that dude's, you know, 275 pounds.
13:08And I just like the way he's developed.
13:10And I like his versatility probably.
13:12You know, if you could get him at 20, I would say he would be my top guy out of
13:16those.
13:16David Pollack, absolutely spitting fire electric this morning here on the Home of the Cowboys, 105.3 The Fan.
13:24He's got the book out.
13:25He's got the YouTube.
13:26Tell us where we can get more David Pollack like this.
13:29Well, I don't know if you want more.
13:30But if you want more – no, I do my podcast, man, see ball, get ball.
13:36I'm not smart enough to play offense, so they put you on defense.
13:39And then the ball moves, you go get guys.
13:42So, see ball, get ball on YouTube is where we do our stuff.
13:45And, yeah, also a defensive lineman writing a book is kind of a big deal.
13:48Like, I think we should automatically be on the New York Best Times cellar
13:51because if a defensive lineman can do it, anybody can do it.
13:54But Everyday Counts is a book for those that really want to challenge themselves.
13:58I think men, and especially as we get a little bit older, like creating a scoreboard is hard in life.
14:04But teaching you how to create a scoreboard so we can compete every day and make every day count.
14:08Like, create those small wins.
14:10You know, that's why we wrote it.
14:11And it's more about the struggle than it is the good things.
14:14It's not like, oh, hey, I was the 17th pick in the draft.
14:16It was like, no, I was the 17th pick, and then I broke my neck.
14:19But I do remember coming to Dallas, by the way, sitting with Bill Parcells and sitting in his office
14:24and talking about being a cowboy.
14:26And then they made a horrible decision.
14:29Horrible decision.
14:30They took this horrible pass rusher out of Troy.
14:36Really good smile and long arms.
14:38I mean, he was okay.
14:40He was fine.
14:41He was fine.
14:42It could have been a better decision for Parcells and company.
14:45David, this was a real treat.
14:47Thank you so much.
14:47Love to have you on again.
14:49Enjoy the draft.
14:50Appreciate it, guys.
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