- 2 days ago
David Helman of The Athletic joined the G-Bag Nation to talk all things NFL Draft, including his dream scenario for the Cowboys' first three picks - No. 12, 20 and 92.
Category
đŸ¥‡
SportsTranscript
00:00But right now, let's welcome in our buddy, David Hellman, The Athletic Football Show.
00:03Dave, how the heck are you, man?
00:05Two weeks from today, it's the NFL Draft.
00:07Are you ready for it?
00:09Oh my gosh, you know, I knew we were in April.
00:12I don't think we, I don't think I realized we were already only two weeks away.
00:16But to answer your question, yes, I'm firmly into like,
00:21holy cow, can we stop arguing about this and just pick the players?
00:25That's where I'm at, which is usually where you get to around early April.
00:28So what's your biggest question mark right now?
00:31Like when you're talking and you're having people on the show,
00:33like what's the one thing that you are questioning the most?
00:36If it's a player that goes in the first round, what one team will do?
00:40Like if you had to ask one specific thing to a team and find out the answer,
00:44where would you go?
00:46You know, I'm really, I'm not that curious from a team specific standpoint,
00:50because at the end of the day, I think, you know,
00:55let's not overthink this from what we've already said about this draft blast going back to like December.
01:00I don't think it's the sexiest group of top 10, top 12 players you're ever going to have.
01:06So I'm not that interested in what a specific team is thinking.
01:11I'm pretty interested in how the league in general views a lot of these guys.
01:15I mean, we don't have to rehash everything,
01:17but you got a pass rusher with sub 31 inch arms.
01:21You got a pass rusher that didn't move to the edge until his last year of college.
01:26You got cornerbacks with issues out the wazoo.
01:30You've got Caleb Downs, who nobody can seem to agree with the right value is.
01:34You got a running back.
01:35And so I'm just curious to see,
01:37you can come up with a reason why any one of these guys is going to slide,
01:40but all it takes is one team.
01:42So I'm just really interested to see where it all slots in after all these weeks of arguing about it.
01:47David, again, thanks to you and Dane for letting me be on your show the other day.
01:52I really do appreciate that.
01:54It was a great platform to be a part of.
01:57Great show, fellas.
01:58You guys did an awesome job.
02:00But I wanted to ask you, you mentioned Downs,
02:03and I'm kind of looking at things from a Cowboys lens of,
02:07will Dallas pass on Downs because everybody else is going to pass on Downs
02:12because of positional value?
02:15Like I just said, I think it's one of the big, I think it is being big.
02:19I know it's one of the big things, but I'm asking you,
02:23do you think they would pass on him?
02:25And I'm asking this question in a way of,
02:28I'm the guy that would like to trade up
02:30because I want to assure myself one of these defensive players.
02:34I don't want to have to walk the landmines that are probably before me.
02:38But I wonder, should I just sit there now because teams are going to pass on him?
02:46You're Mr. Trade-Up.
02:47You've never seen a day-two pick you're not willing to get rid of.
02:56I'm curious.
02:57I think I would wait.
02:59And it's funny because I've been...
03:00I think I'm going to wait now, too.
03:01I think I'm going to wait now.
03:03I just did a podcast where I was extolling the virtues of Caleb Downs.
03:08And I really feel like this is a player that the draft community at large is overthinking.
03:14But you can't overlook the history here.
03:17And the NFL has let more physically gifted players than Caleb Downs slip
03:23because of positional value over the years.
03:27I guess I think it depends on who would be there
03:30if the Cowboys would pass on Caleb Downs.
03:32Like, if for some reason one of the pass rushers was there,
03:35I think the Cowboys might let it happen.
03:37But if Caleb Downs is there and there's not, like, a blinking red light
03:41that leads them in another direction,
03:44I think they would take him.
03:45And I don't think they would think that hard about it.
03:47And I kind of love the idea of, Brian,
03:49what do we talk about every freaking year?
03:51Teams like the Ravens and the Eagles.
03:54Oh, yeah.
03:55They just hang out and let the good football player follow them.
03:59And wouldn't it be cool if the Cowboys could finally do that
04:02and just hang out and let everybody else overthink Caleb Downs
04:06and draft him at 12?
04:07That's kind of what I'm hoping happens.
04:09I hope the rest of the league overthinks this so the Cowboys don't have to.
04:13David, you said the pass rusher.
04:15What if I paired it with, like, Mesidor with him?
04:18And it's Mesidor and Downs.
04:24Mesidor at 20?
04:25At 12.
04:26Ooh.
04:27Oh, I can't take Hakeem Mesidor at 12.
04:32That's too rich for me.
04:34Between the medical history and the fact that he just turned 25,
04:38I get a little freaked out.
04:40I don't know if the Cowboys feel that way,
04:41and maybe Christian Parker feels really strongly about an edge presence,
04:45but for me, if the choice is Mesidor or Downs, I'm taking Downs,
04:50and I don't have to think that hard about it.
04:52Let me give you something to think about next year for the draft
04:55when you're looking at about 17, 25-year-old players because of NIL and all that stuff.
05:02Just remember your buddy Brian, when he's at the lake, that he told you about this.
05:07Okay?
05:07There's going to be a time where there's going to be older players coming out of college football.
05:13Just get ready for it, my friend.
05:15Get ready for it.
05:16I mean, you're right, but at some point—
05:18You know I'm damn right.
05:21You know I'm damn right about this.
05:23He's fired up today, Dave.
05:24You know I'm right about this, Dave.
05:26At some point, these COVID players are going to go away.
05:29Like, we're going to get back to a sense of normalcy here
05:32where guys aren't getting as many waivers as they have here over the last year.
05:35How about the fact that our alma mater gives these kids $40 million?
05:39There's reasons for them to stay longer.
05:43Hey, and that's fine.
05:44I don't care if you're 22.
05:46When you're 24, I get a little bit nervous when I'm watching a guy who's 24.
05:52Like, Hakeem Mesidor is a very fun player.
05:55His tape is very, very good.
05:56But I get a little bit nervous where I'm like,
05:59are you dominant because you're that guy or because you're playing a 21-year-old?
06:04It makes me a little bit nervous.
06:06I don't know.
06:07We were watching, but that's just how I feel.
06:08We drafted Tyron Smith.
06:10He was 20.
06:12Jason Witten was 21.
06:15That's my point, though.
06:17I'm just saying, though.
06:18I'm just saying.
06:19You're saying he's beating up on young guys.
06:21I mean, is that the case?
06:26Those young guys turn around and go to the NFL when they're 20 years old.
06:30They don't play in college for five more years after that.
06:32That's the problem.
06:35I'm just telling you, get ready, bro.
06:37Get ready.
06:38We'll have this conversation next year.
06:40When Brian drops the, when I'm at the lake to you,
06:44do you ever believe he's actually going to be at the lake?
06:47Brian's been telling me he was going to be at the lake since 2016.
06:51And every year, I check in with him in December, and he's like,
06:56well, I've got to get started on these edge rushers.
06:58I'm just saying, man.
07:03And it's, listen, these general managers and coaches,
07:06they're not there for very long unless you're Jerry Jones, you know?
07:11You better draft, you better draft, I don't care what the age is.
07:14You better draft good football players,
07:16or you're going to be doing podcasts with you and I.
07:19I got a hot take for you.
07:22You're going to hate this if you like Mesidor,
07:25but considering everything, and look, I know you can watch Keldrick Falk
07:31and not find a whole lot to get excited about in terms of, like,
07:34sack production on tape, but give me the 21-year-old with the freaky
07:39measurables who's just scratching the surface of what he can do,
07:42who's already a good run defender.
07:44I'll take my chances that Keldrick Falk can grow into a monster
07:47before I worry about using a big, big pick on a guy who's 25.
07:51That's just how I feel.
07:52I like it.
07:53Dave Hellman with us here at the Athletic Football Show.
07:56He just said he liked it just because you're trying to get to another question,
07:59but go ahead.
07:59I mean, I love Dave's takes in general.
08:03I'm an avid listener.
08:04That's a foolish thing to think about.
08:07I knew that was going to make him mad.
08:10His arms are folded right now.
08:12I'm just telling you, Dave, we got a damn good run defender in Donovan Azaraku.
08:18How about that?
08:20Guy went from 16 sacks to being a really good run defender.
08:25Didn't he just have, like, shoulder surgery or something like that?
08:28He did.
08:29He did.
08:29He changed his number back to his college number, so he was going to be great.
08:32After Thanksgiving.
08:33Was it a knee?
08:34It was his knee, wasn't it?
08:35It was the hip.
08:36Yeah.
08:36It was a hip issue.
08:37Yeah.
08:38Sorry.
08:39Sorry.
08:39Yeah, because we have the same thing we have in our shoulder we actually have in our hips,
08:43so you think it's a shoulder.
08:45I totally get that.
08:46But I'm curious, though, Dave.
08:48I hate him.
08:48Because the...
08:50Not you, Dave.
08:50I hate Eric.
08:53You know, we've talked so much about this nickel position, this hybrid nickel position.
08:57I think Caleb Downs would fit that bill beautifully.
09:00But if Downs is not ending up being the pick at 12 for whatever reason, who is the first
09:06player or two that come to mind for you that you would say, I would like to plug and play
09:09this guy here for the Cowboys at that hybrid nickel spot?
09:13Oh, at the hybrid nickel spot specifically?
09:16Yes.
09:17I don't think that guy is there for you at 12.
09:21But, like, if that's what you're looking for...
09:23Or at 20.
09:25Yeah, I mean, if that's what you're looking for at 20, I mean, I like both of the other
09:29two safeties.
09:30And I'm not trying to hate on Dylan Thienemann at all.
09:34The more I...
09:35Like, I am a big fan of Emmanuel McNeil-Warren.
09:38I just...
09:39Again, he's got a freaky skill set when you're talking about, like, a 6'3 guy with reach like
09:45that.
09:45He's an incredibly sure tackler.
09:47And then this feels kind of late.
09:49This wouldn't be pick 20.
09:51This would be, like, later in the draft.
09:52This feels kind of lazy because he played at the same school as Nick Imanwari.
09:59But Jalen Gilmore, like, the next kid up at South Carolina, he's this big, athletic,
10:07rangy safety.
10:08And he was athletic enough that South Carolina had him playing slot, like, exclusively.
10:13He's, like, 6'2", 210-pound safety.
10:17And they were like, hey, we need you to exclusively play nickel.
10:20Can you do that?
10:21And I don't think his tape is, like, amazing, but he did that job admirably.
10:26And I don't think that's what they're going to ask him to do in the NFL.
10:29So, like I said, it feels a little lazy because he went to the same school as him in Worry.
10:35But if you're sitting there on day two looking for that guy, I would be intrigued.
10:40Hey, Dave, I want to ask you something.
10:43And this goes back to, again, about traits and the small guys and all that stuff like that.
10:48Who was the player that just got signed in free agency, one of the largest contracts in free agency this
10:57year?
10:57The Raiders guy?
10:58Yeah.
11:00Who was our guy, Dave?
11:01Lenderbomb?
11:02Yeah, Lenderbomb.
11:09Lenderbomb?
11:11I don't see the correlation, to be honest.
11:12No, no, no.
11:13I'm just asking you a question.
11:15I'm just asking you a question.
11:17I'm just asking you why all of a sudden, if a guy's too small, too this, too that, why are
11:22we doing this to ourselves?
11:24Why are we doing this to ourselves?
11:25That we have this, we're adamant against it, but we're willing to pay a guy $30 million a year.
11:31Yeah.
11:32Yeah, why are we, when the draft comes around, why are we adamantly against it?
11:38But then, when it comes to free agency, we realize that we effed up because the guy is like a
11:44really good player.
11:45What are we doing here?
11:48I wish I could tell you, Brian, because I just had a conversation doing a podcast where, again, like you
11:55hear the NFL,
11:56like, you know, you've got three years of tape on Caleb Downs that suggests that he's this incredibly smart, talented,
12:05instinctual player.
12:07But then you get to this time of year, and it's like, ah, but, you know, is seeing him in
12:12the better option because of his arms?
12:14Yeah.
12:14He's just, he's got more reach, and I'm just like, why are we doing this?
12:19No, I...
12:19Are we bored?
12:20I appreciate the fight.
12:21And, you know, Lenderbomb was the same thing.
12:23Where, like, when Lenderbomb came out in college, everybody knew who Lenderbomb was by, like, October of his final year.
12:29Right.
12:30And then you get to this time of year, and people are just so...
12:34I think people just get bored, man.
12:37Or I think people...
12:38And I think that's a theme for this draft, where people are so intoxicated by upside that it leads them
12:46away from more sure things.
12:48Yeah.
12:49And I don't know, man.
12:49I can't guarantee Caleb Downs is going to be some all-pro player, but I don't think there's a lot
12:55of risk there.
12:55And that's part of the reason why I feel so good about it.
12:58No, I really...
12:58I agree with you about Downs.
13:00I was just...
13:00My whole thing is, we do all this whole exercise about these players, and we watch the tape, but then
13:08we start to talk about them, and we just go, I don't know, I don't know.
13:12And then five years later, we're giving them $30 million, you know, instead of just drafting them.
13:17Let me ask you this, scout man.
13:20You lived this life more than the rest of us.
13:23Oh, I used to...
13:23No, no.
13:23I used to be that guy.
13:25I've opened my eyes.
13:27I've opened my eyes now.
13:29I'm curious, though.
13:30How do you think NFL teams would do if, instead of this whole damn process, like, let's do, you know,
13:38how, like, the NBA Combine happens right after the NBA Finals?
13:41Like, let's do the Combine on, like, January 18th after everybody but the best teams have been eliminated?
13:49Yeah.
13:49And how good do you think the NFL would be if you just did the draft, like, in February?
13:54Just get it out of the way and don't let everybody get into meeting rooms and overthink the hell out
13:59of it.
13:59I would be curious to see how much more efficient the league would be if you kind of...
14:03There's no question.
14:04...bruncated that whole thing.
14:05There's no question.
14:06It probably would be better.
14:07It'd probably be better because the more time you have, the more groupthink you have, the more chance you have
14:13of calling your buddies and saying,
14:15hey, man, we're talking about so-and-so, well, man, we think so-and-so, really?
14:19We think, you know, we're killing this, we're killing this in a bad way.
14:25Because to me, like I said, I just think there's plenty of times, the one thing the Wolchek always champions
14:32is, like, the smaller defensive back.
14:34And every year I want to go, man, you're an idiot.
14:36Yeah.
14:37You're an idiot.
14:37And then I watch, like, I watch our kid from Tampa play.
14:41Oh, Antoine Winfield.
14:42Antoine Winfield play.
14:43And I'm going, oh, wow, look at him knock somebody unconscious here today.
14:47Or look at him cover somebody.
14:50We're terrible at this.
14:52We're terrible at this.
14:53I think if we just lopped, like, two or three months off of the draft process, we'd all be better
14:58off.
14:59Of course, it'd be bad for business and the NFL will never do it.
15:02But, yeah, let's just get in a room with the people that have, like, watched all the tape in, like,
15:08early February and just get this out of the way.
15:10I bet the results would be different.
15:12I bet you the teams have dropped a lot better.
15:14David, before we let you out of here, 12-20-92.
15:18You're the GM.
15:20You're picking as your Jerry Jones.
15:21What's the David Hellman draft looking like for the Cowboys, ideally, if you can have your way?
15:26I'm happy to have a chance to say this because I know how many radios are tuned to 105.3
15:32at the Star.
15:34If it's David Hellman's draft, we're sending 92 to Miami for Jordan Brooks.
15:39That's number one.
15:40Like, let's just get that out of the way.
15:42And if we got to throw in some change, that's fine.
15:44Let's go get a ready-made badass.
15:47Jordan Brooks was so good for Miami last year.
15:50They're obviously, like, they're resetting things.
15:53They don't need him right now.
15:54Send 92 over there.
15:56Throw in some extra change.
15:58Get him locked up on an extension.
15:59Now we're cooking with gas.
16:01And honestly, give me Caleb Downs at 12.
16:05And maybe it's a pipe dream to get Keldrick Falk at 20.
16:11Like, maybe he's too talented.
16:13But on the off chance that he's there, I would be way, way into that.
16:17And if he's not, then I'm probably looking at Thorners or, shoot, maybe another edge.
16:23I mean, if you like 20 fields rich for, like, Malachi Lawrence or Zion Young.
16:29But, you know, obviously the teams don't care what we think.
16:31So I would probably go looking for an edge after I got Caleb Downs at 12.
16:36But that would be my blueprint.
16:37Two guys I'd be very, very excited about there, David.
16:40You're the man.
16:41Always appreciate your time, bro.
16:42Keep up the great work at the Athletic Football Show.
16:45And anywhere, anything else you want to plug before we let you out of here?
16:48It's just, it's all draft all the time over at the Athletic.
16:52Dane Brugler's The Beast just came out.
16:54As Brian alluded to, Dane, he and Dane, Brian, and I just did a whole episode
16:59where we just argued about players for an hour.
17:01So wherever you get podcasts or on YouTube, you can go find us there,
17:06the Athletic Football Show.
17:07Thank you so much, man.
17:08Awesome chatting with you, as always.
17:09Take care.
17:10Enjoy the draft.
17:12Anytime, y'all.
17:13Talk soon.
Comments