- 1 week ago
CTP (S3EAprSpecial8) Purpose After Loss
Exploring more of the fascinating intersection of Activism, Community Engagement, Faith / Religion, Human Nature, Politics, Social Issues, and beyond
I sit down with Val Cleppen to talk about what happens to your faith, your identity, and your daily life after stillbirth and deep loss. We trace the messy middle of grief and the slow, surprising way God can rebuild purpose through Scripture, community, and a new calling.
• Val’s upbringing and the life she swore she would never live
• how loss shatters “the plan” and forces a new definition of purpose
• stillbirth and the shock of hearing there is no heartbeat
• the quiet of the delivery room and sensing God’s presence
• guilt, shame, and feeling like a failure as a mother
• why humor matters when life gets unbearable
• the funeral and the brutal finality of a tiny casket
• grief stages and why grief is cyclical
• “I need my pain” and why fixing is not helping
• anger with God and learning to channel anger without sin
• Psalm 139 as a turning point toward God’s comfort
• rejecting meaningless work and rebuilding family life with intention
• the nudge to start a podcast and creating The Motherhood Experience
• where to find Val and join her email list
SEND US FEEDBACK: https://www.buzzsprout.com/2210487/fan_mail/new
https://tinyurl.com/SubscribeToCTP
CTP Audios: https://tinyurl.com/CTPonBuzzsprout
CTP Videos: https://tinyurl.com/JLDonBITCHUTE
https://tinyurl.com/CTPgear
Exploring more of the fascinating intersection of Activism, Community Engagement, Faith / Religion, Human Nature, Politics, Social Issues, and beyond
I sit down with Val Cleppen to talk about what happens to your faith, your identity, and your daily life after stillbirth and deep loss. We trace the messy middle of grief and the slow, surprising way God can rebuild purpose through Scripture, community, and a new calling.
• Val’s upbringing and the life she swore she would never live
• how loss shatters “the plan” and forces a new definition of purpose
• stillbirth and the shock of hearing there is no heartbeat
• the quiet of the delivery room and sensing God’s presence
• guilt, shame, and feeling like a failure as a mother
• why humor matters when life gets unbearable
• the funeral and the brutal finality of a tiny casket
• grief stages and why grief is cyclical
• “I need my pain” and why fixing is not helping
• anger with God and learning to channel anger without sin
• Psalm 139 as a turning point toward God’s comfort
• rejecting meaningless work and rebuilding family life with intention
• the nudge to start a podcast and creating The Motherhood Experience
• where to find Val and join her email list
SEND US FEEDBACK: https://www.buzzsprout.com/2210487/fan_mail/new
https://tinyurl.com/SubscribeToCTP
CTP Audios: https://tinyurl.com/CTPonBuzzsprout
CTP Videos: https://tinyurl.com/JLDonBITCHUTE
https://tinyurl.com/CTPgear
Category
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NewsTranscript
00:00Hello, welcome to another episode of Perstitutionalist Podcast.
00:06I am your host, Joseph M. Leonard.
00:09That's L-E-N-A-R-D.
00:12It looks French.
00:13It's not.
00:14It's Leonard without an O.
00:17Thank you for tuning in, as Graham Norton used to say, on his show.
00:24Let's get on with the show!
00:25So, joining me today, and good thing I verified your name before hitting record, is Val, say
00:35it again, I've already forgotten.
00:38Clep-in.
00:39Clep, like an E, but it's an A. K-L-A-P-P-E-N, but it sounds like an
00:48E in there, yes?
00:50Well, it's actually K-L-E-P-P-E-N, so yeah.
00:54Oh, did I?
00:54You know what?
00:55You know what?
00:56I've been called so much worse.
00:58This is great.
01:00I wrote it down larger because on my notes, it's like, I can't read that.
01:08It's too small a print, even with my glasses.
01:12I think I need a new pair.
01:14And when I transposed it bigger, I wrote it down wrong.
01:21All is forgiven.
01:23So, yeah, if I'd have wrote it down right, I'd have pronounced it right.
01:30And before we get into anything, the first important question is, how did the beams turn
01:38out?
01:41Well, hopefully fine.
01:42I tasked my husband with manning them from this point, but all he has to do is turn off
01:48the burner when the timer dings.
01:58Canning beans, though, is usually pretty simple.
02:01So hopefully I dotted all my I's and crossed all my T's there.
02:06And you left him with it.
02:08Hopefully he doesn't blow up the house.
02:11Right.
02:11Exactly.
02:13Stay tuned, folks.
02:15Stay tuned.
02:16Oh, goodness.
02:17If there's a big explosion during the record, we know what it is.
02:23And it's coming from the kitchen.
02:26Yes.
02:26Yes.
02:28So, at any rate, Finding Purpose After Loss.
02:35I've had a few people on, but as I said to you through Podmatch, which was where we found
02:42each other, can't talk about it enough, I don't think.
02:47But before we get into Finding Purpose After Loss, let's do the, it's a Christian show,
02:55so the obvious joke, the proverbial, ba-dum-bum, first question, where were you born?
03:03Where were you raised?
03:04Where are you now?
03:06Any significant places you've been to between?
03:09Did you learn how to make the beans while serving time in prison?
03:15So, we're doing testimonials is what we're doing right now.
03:18So, I actually was born on the West Coast in California and grew up-
03:23My condolences.
03:25Yeah.
03:25Yeah.
03:26I try not to start with that, but you kind of put me on the spot.
03:30Eventually, my family moved to Wyoming, so I just grew up right outside of Yellowstone,
03:35and that is where I consider home.
03:39So, you know Luz Cheney well then.
03:42Yeah.
03:43Oh, yeah, we're besties, she and I.
03:46Oh, I couldn't resist.
03:52I'm sorry, go on.
03:53That's okay.
03:54And so, I met my husband.
03:57He's a North Dakota boy, and I swore I would never live in North Dakota.
04:03We moved there January of 2006, and then I swore I would never live in Minnesota.
04:09We moved there in 2017.
04:12I now live in South Dakota, which I have wanted to live in South Dakota.
04:17I also swore-
04:18Oh, so you're best buds with Christy Noem then.
04:20But I have so many besties in the political realm.
04:24Yeah.
04:26I swear I would never homeschool.
04:29We are in our eighth year of homeschooling.
04:31Oh, the disaster the public schools are.
04:35I'm glad you are.
04:37Right.
04:37And so now I'm swearing I'll never be a millionaire, and we're just going to see what the Lord did
04:42with that.
04:45Challenge made.
04:46Yeah.
04:48Jesus, it's in your court.
04:53Oh, for the benefit of the transcript, we're rolling on the floor laughing, almost literally.
05:01This is a fun start.
05:04The audio, even not video, they'll hear us laughing, but transcript, if somebody's reading, unfortunately, you've got to spell it
05:13out for them.
05:14You kind of did the born and raised you are now and significant places you've been between.
05:20You haven't owned up to how much time you spent for what crime, though.
05:27Yeah.
05:28My parole officer says I'm not free to talk about that yet, but once all the dust has settled, we
05:39will be free to talk about that.
05:43Finding purpose, one of the big points of this constitutionalist podcast, and even tougher at times, after loss, because it's
05:58part of life.
05:59We all, at some point, experience it.
06:03We all begin dying the day we're born.
06:07We're all going to die.
06:09Unfortunately, some do sooner than others.
06:14And in fact, one of my books, A Short Story, A Lasting Legacy, it's really a novelette, but it's called
06:22A Short Story because of someone dying before a normal life expectancy would suggest they would.
06:32Finding purpose after loss.
06:35Starts with just thinking that you are, that you have your plans figured out and then learning one day it
06:44doesn't work that way.
06:46And so that was.
06:48There's our plans and then there's God's plans.
06:52And then there's also Satan's meddling plans.
06:55Right, right.
06:57And so that was kind of my story.
06:59I was climbing a corporate ladder in a job I didn't love, but thought that's what I had to do.
07:05And got pregnant with our oldest and she was born by emergency cesarean, two months premature.
07:14Oh boy.
07:15And I was on bed rest before she was born and then recovering after she was born.
07:21And that was kind of a different world, certainly different from how we had planned it.
07:26How is she doing now?
07:28She will be 16, Joe.
07:31She will be 16.
07:33And no major lasting effects due to the prematurity?
07:38No.
07:39She's always been a big girl in a petite little girl's body.
07:44And that's, yeah, she is a real blessing.
07:48And then I got pregnant again a couple of years later.
07:53And I remember this is the craziest thing.
07:58I was sitting in my office and a coworker who would come in and visit with me often.
08:04And, you know, just, we would talk about different things going on in life and in our community.
08:12And he came in and said that his wife had gone to the YMCA to work out that day.
08:18And she saw this little boy and knew that his mom was pregnant.
08:22And so she bent down and said, hey, how's your mom?
08:27Has she had the baby yet?
08:28And the little boy said, the baby died.
08:31And I remember looking at him as I was very pregnant with our second and saying, can you imagine going
08:40through your entire pregnancy just to have your baby die?
08:43And he said, no, I can't.
08:45And I was like, yeah, I can't either.
08:47Little did I know two months later that would be exactly what happened in our life.
08:55Oh, my, I lost out on a would-be uncle.
09:00My grandmother, Josephine, my mother's mother, she lost a brother the day after birth.
09:09So our family has dealt with that throughout also.
09:16My uncle would-be Uncle Norman, that wasn't to be.
09:20And that affects the family for generations.
09:25Yeah, my husband as well lost an uncle, as did I in that same fashion.
09:31And I mean, regardless of how small your circle is, you know someone who has experienced pregnancy or infant loss.
09:40It happens that often.
09:42It's just not talked about.
09:44It is not talked about.
09:46And it's not, even though he and I had had that conversation in my office, it's almost like your brain
09:51won't let you reconcile that those types of things happen or are possible.
09:57And so I-
09:59Denial.
10:00A degree of denial.
10:01Yeah, and I think also self-preservation, just because it's such a heavy reality that you don't know how to
10:12carry it or deal with it.
10:14Right, right.
10:15Well, there's the general stages of grief, shock, denial, anger, acceptance.
10:20And in those cases, the denial ends up being a stage most people end up stuck in.
10:31Yeah.
10:31Or the anger.
10:34So the denial is almost better than the anger of the why.
10:40Why?
10:40Why did this happen to me, to us?
10:45Why?
10:46And that was my primary prayer.
10:49That was the only prayer I could pray after it happened was, God, why?
10:53Why?
10:55And I think, so I went into labor with her.
11:00I made it to term.
11:01They told me I had a beautiful pregnancy.
11:03You know, even though I was high risk, nothing was high risk about it, uh, until I went into the
11:10hospital and they found no heartbeat and I delivered her in four pushes.
11:17And I remember when they told us, Joseph, that there was no heartbeat.
11:22My husband looked at me with just devastation on his face, but I was so confused because here I was
11:29in labor thinking I was about to give birth to our baby.
11:32And babies aren't supposed to die.
11:35Babies don't, she's safe inside of me.
11:37Like, I don't understand.
11:38How are you going to get her heart beating again?
11:41Like, that was, that was my initial response.
11:45And I was kind of frustrated.
11:47Like, why is my husband so devastated right now?
11:49Everything's going to be fine.
11:50Again, you just, this is self-preservation.
11:54Right.
11:55Why, why can't there be little paddles?
11:58Why can't there be an injection of an adrenaline shot?
12:03But yeah.
12:05Yeah.
12:05Anything, anything.
12:06And so when I delivered her and they put her on my chest and she was just this beautiful full
12:14term baby girl, but there were, there was no sound in the room.
12:18And that's what really got me that how quiet it was.
12:24She wasn't crying.
12:25She wasn't moving.
12:26Um, you know, the doctor and the nurses were just, they were just doing their work, but not saying anything.
12:34It was just so quiet.
12:36And, um, a somber, yeah, grieving mood about all involved.
12:45Right.
12:45And I, I remember the Lord being in that room with us.
12:49I could feel him.
12:50And I often, I often do this, put my left hand up by my head when I say that, because
12:55that's where I felt him.
12:57You felt the presence there on your shoulder.
12:59Right next to me.
13:00And I felt him grieving with us and, and the moment in that moment, it brought me so much comfort.
13:07But later on, I was thinking, you know, wouldn't you have rather been celebrating with us?
13:13You know, you were the only one who could have stopped.
13:15And you were there.
13:17How did you not intervene with a miracle?
13:20But here's where I've got to interject.
13:24God gave us all free will.
13:26This is a fallen world.
13:28Bad things happen to good people all the time.
13:32God does not spend all day, every day meddling in the affairs of humanity.
13:39Bad things happen, unfortunately.
13:43Yeah.
13:43And on her headstone, we have the verse John 16, 33.
13:48So I've told you in the world, you will have trouble, but take heart for I have overcome the world.
13:54And that was really a verse that kind of got us through those darkest moments following.
14:01But also, I've felt like such a failure.
14:05Our first child was born two months premature because I was so sick and nearly died.
14:10Our second child was stillborn.
14:12Like, I felt like I, the one thing I was designed to do to bring life into this world, I
14:18was failing at.
14:20And so, I lost all sense of purpose.
14:24Like, why am I here when I can't even do the basics?
14:29The things that I'm not supposed to, like, have to perform to do, right?
14:35Life is just this natural thing, this natural process that happens, and I can't even do that.
14:41So why am I here?
14:43And it was such a dark, dark journey.
14:46Well, we come to take it for granted that, I mean, there are nearly 8 billion people on the planet
14:55now.
14:55So procreation and births have become such a norm to think how simple and basic it should be.
15:09But I think we fail to realize the miracle it really is, and it's amazing it doesn't go wrong more
15:18often than it does.
15:19That's so true.
15:21That's so true.
15:22Because every single step that has to happen successfully for any of us to get here is an incredible feat.
15:32And so the fact that there are so many people and the fact that we're all, you know, healthy and
15:37vibrant and make it to, you know, 40, 50, 80 years and beyond is an absolute miracle.
15:45You're right.
15:46It is something we take for granted.
15:49Now, before we go back to the serious subject, people not watching on video will have no idea.
15:57But I see over your right shoulder, from my vantage point, it looks like Rod Serling.
16:04Who is that?
16:07What is that?
16:08That is Michael Scott from The Office.
16:12Oh.
16:13It says, would I rather be loved or feared?
16:17Easy.
16:18Both.
16:19I want people to fear how much they love me.
16:23Yes.
16:25Okay.
16:25Well, I'm glad I asked.
16:27I like that.
16:28That's good.
16:29That is my husband's contribution to our decor.
16:35It wanted to add a little levity to the, and I say that all the time, we're dealing in very
16:43serious stuff here.
16:45But even in my terror strikes coming soon to a city near you book, there's a comic relief chapter to
16:54make that point.
16:55No matter how serious everything is, we'll go crazy if we don't maintain a sense of humor.
17:04I just recorded with someone earlier in the day, too, and brought up the old Cypress Hills song.
17:11Insane in the membrane.
17:13If we don't keep a sense of humor, none of us would be lucid at all.
17:20We'd all be locked up in straitjackets.
17:22Yeah, and I think it is a real gift from the Lord.
17:27I think the Lord has a sense of humor as well.
17:30And I remember my sister showing me a video of my nephew shortly after, I think after Harlan's funeral, after
17:39we had buried our daughter.
17:40And I laughed so hard.
17:43And it was such a juxtaposition because how could my heart be so broken, but I still find this so
17:49funny.
17:50But it was such a gift in that moment.
17:52I needed that, is it oxytocin?
17:56I needed that release and that.
17:58Yes.
17:58That dopamine.
18:00Yeah.
18:01Yes.
18:02For sure.
18:03Yeah.
18:04So it was months and months of just the darkest grief.
18:13You can't imagine, you know, here we were planning for her life, her first birthday, her wedding, her college graduation,
18:21you know, all these things that would now never be.
18:25And instead we had to pick out a teeny tiny coffin and this by a, by a burial plot at
18:32the cemetery.
18:33And it was, it was, I think that, excuse me, fog in my throat.
18:40So every time, uh, my, I, I, our parents, I only have my sister left.
18:45Our parents have passed too.
18:47So, you know, going to the cemetery, our parents are buried, uh, only a few feet from where the Keillor
18:57family plot was.
18:59And little Norman, yeah, set off to the side of the main big headstone around the full graves.
19:06There's the one little plot where the cough, the, the, uh, the headstone itself is as big as the coffin
19:15was.
19:16Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. It, uh, no one prepared me and I'm not sure if you can prepare for walking
19:24into that room and seeing how small the caskets are.
19:28I mean, it, I, my knees buckled, I collapsed.
19:32My husband caught me as I just wept staring at them.
19:35And I'll never forget the moment at the funeral when, uh, my husband went to pick up her casket and
19:43carry it to the hearse.
19:45And just let out this guttural cry as he lifted her casket and everyone in the auditorium heard it, you
19:55know, and it was just, it was just silence after this wail that he let out.
20:00But then he placed this teeny tiny casket in the back of this hearse and there was just so much
20:06room in the back of the hearse.
20:08That's immediately what I envisioned too.
20:11It's like, uh, a speck of sand on the beach.
20:17It's, it's lost there.
20:19It's so out of place.
20:21Yeah. Yeah.
20:21That's a good way to put it.
20:23There was such a stark contrast and, um, we took her to the cemetery and I remember not wanting to
20:30leave because the finality of that was just, um,
20:35um, but yet all life has to go on around you.
20:42You have to continue to be part of it.
20:45You can't completely surrender to that moment and completely fall apart.
20:52Absolutely.
20:52I still had a three-year-old who needed her mama.
20:55And I remember riding in the car one day and she, she said, mama, is your heart broken?
21:03And of course I just started weeping right then.
21:06And I was like, well, I, yes, it is.
21:08You're going to make me cry right now.
21:10Yeah.
21:11It was, it, it was such a dark time.
21:15And also now I, I just want to say, like, looking back, I never could have seen the Bible says
21:24to, uh, give thanks in all circumstances.
21:28And I never could have seen how that was possible.
21:31And it doesn't say give thanks for all circumstances.
21:34Praise God.
21:35Praise God, but I, now we're almost 13 years, um, past when she died and I can look back.
21:47I can turn around and look back and see as you're walking forward on that path.
21:51It's so dark.
21:52You can't see anything except one step in front of you.
21:55But as I can turn around and look back over the last 13 years, I, there are flowers all along
22:01that dark path.
22:02And a lot of them were watered by my tears, but a lot of them were watered by the care
22:06we received and the love we received from other people.
22:09And it took a long time for me to be able to see that.
22:14And for me to be able to say that.
22:16I love what you said and how you said it.
22:19It reminds me the old footprints in the sand poem.
22:25And yeah.
22:25Why Lord did you abandon me?
22:28I didn't abandon you where you see that one set of footprints.
22:32That's where I carried you.
22:35Yeah.
22:35Right.
22:36And again, you so eloquently put it looking back the flowers that were watered by the good that somehow comes
22:49out of the bad.
22:50And it's sometimes difficult to recognize that because we're so consumed and saddened and in a way almost wired to
23:03dwell upon the why me.
23:07In fact, it was just this afternoon I was recording with someone the why me.
23:14Or no, that was a couple days ago.
23:16It'd become blur at times.
23:18But yeah, there's the two.
23:22Why me, Lord?
23:24Like Richard Lynch I recorded with and aired in January.
23:30Why me, Lord?
23:31Why am I getting these blessings?
23:34And then there's the other tonal different.
23:38Why me?
23:40Why does this bad stuff keep happening?
23:44Right.
23:44It's the same verbiage, but the context completely different.
23:51Yeah, absolutely.
23:53And it's so hard to reconcile either of those when you're in the moment.
23:58But it takes, you know, I tell other bereaved parents especially, the only way through to the other side is
24:08walking through that messy middle.
24:10You have to walk through it.
24:12There's no way around it, over it, under it.
24:15You have to go through it.
24:16There's no magic way to skip over it.
24:19The stages of shock, denial, anger, acceptance.
24:24It's kind of the unfortunate mental reality.
24:28You've got to go through the phases or you can't come out the other side of the tunnel.
24:35Yeah, and I think it's also important to just remind people and to validate this for some even that grief
24:44is very cyclical.
24:46And so just because you are no longer in denial or you're no longer angry and you're in this other
24:54phase of grief doesn't mean you're not ever going to be in denial or ever going to be angry again.
24:59You can regress, yeah.
25:02You will have, we're human, we have our bad moments that we fall backwards, yes.
25:07Yeah, and it becomes familiar and it's almost, it goes from hurting so much to be in any stage of
25:17grief to almost being comforted because at least you know kind of what to expect or that, okay, this is
25:25grieving now.
25:26And for a long time, my grief was the only tangible thing I had of my daughter.
25:32And so people would say like, oh, I wish I could take your hurt away or I wish I could
25:38make this not be so bad for you.
25:41And I would say, don't you dare because this is the only thing I have of her right now.
25:46Oh, thank you.
25:48The minute you started saying that, I immediately went back to, I think it's Star Trek 5, the movie.
25:55People think of the Star Trek series and especially the movies as this funny, irreverent, sci-fi dream of the
26:06future, but there's a lot of real here and now human condition plot points.
26:16Star Trek 5, I think if I get it right, is the one where we discover Spock's long lost half
26:23brother that we didn't know existed for four decades.
26:27But that aside, that ridiculousness of the plot point.
26:32But yeah, like with Bones, let me take away your pain.
26:39And Kirk saying, no, I need my pain.
26:43And the bad things that happen to us help build our character, make us who we are.
26:50The old native adage, what doesn't kill us makes us stronger.
26:59That is, it doesn't make us happy, can make us miserable, but it does build a stronger character.
27:09Yeah.
27:09And I think, I mean, people are very well intentioned in saying those things.
27:14And I think a lot of it is because they're uncomfortable because they know you're hurting and they just want
27:20to fix it.
27:21But you can't.
27:22I mean, the one thing I wanted was my daughter back.
27:26And no one could have given me that or helped me with that.
27:30And so it's okay to be uncomfortable.
27:33Like that is one lesson I learned over and over again.
27:38It's okay to be uncomfortable and it's okay to let other people be uncomfortable too.
27:43For a while, I felt like even though I was grieving, I had to offer comfort and understanding to other
27:50people because they didn't know what to do or say or how to act or feel.
27:54And I got to the point where I was like, this is bogus.
27:59I'm the one who buried my daughter and I'm just going to feel what I feel when I feel it.
28:04It's okay for me to give me a message.
28:06Yeah, you are entitled to feel all those negative, almost, I did a show with Leslie Hall, our animal side.
28:17We can't deny that exists because we are supposedly the most sentient being on the planet.
28:27Comparatively, we're still primitive animals, no matter how much we've progressed technologically.
28:37Yeah, sure.
28:40I mean, there is something carnal about the depths of the grief that we experienced.
28:47And yeah, it is and can be primitive, but also, you know, we are human and just giving us grace.
28:56Like even Jesus wept when he knew he was going to raise Lazarus from the dead.
29:00You know, it's okay to feel things like that is absolutely okay.
29:05And I kept him at an arm's length tether for a long time because I wanted to see my daughter
29:13again.
29:13But I was mad and I was confused.
29:17And so, I talked to him kind of because I had to, not really because I wanted to.
29:23Yeah, I hear you.
29:25Amen.
29:26And I'm grabbing one of my books.
29:30In fact, this is a Constitutionalist Politics 3 based on the show, but it's actually CTP4 that's available on Kindle
29:40version only, Kindle exclusive, where I go into anger.
29:46Jesus never said anger is a sin.
29:52Pridefulness, hubris is a sin.
29:55Anger is not.
29:56It can be a sin if we channel our anger into negative other things like destructiveness and lashing out and
30:06harming another.
30:08Then it becomes a sin.
30:10But anger as a raw human emotion is not a sin.
30:16Yeah, yeah.
30:17It says, the letter says, do not sin in your anger, meaning you're going to be angry, but you better
30:22watch it when you are.
30:24Yeah.
30:24How you channel it is what matters in your character and what you will be judged on, not that you
30:34got angry.
30:35That's to be expected.
30:37Yeah, and I was angry, and I think I handled it just by pouting and really kind of metaphorically throwing
30:48these mental tantrums.
30:50You know, I didn't want to read my Bible.
30:52I didn't want to pray.
30:53I didn't want to fellowship with other believers.
30:56I didn't want to be encouraged.
30:58Like, you know, just I just wanted to sit in my pain for a moment.
31:04And I remember I was leading support groups at the time for other bereaved families and just really giving my
31:14all to encourage them.
31:15And then there was a woman from church who called me one day, and she was going through something that
31:21I would have considered incredibly benign, given the fact that I just put my daughter in the ground.
31:28Like, what she was going to felt so minimal.
31:33Perspective, though, yes.
31:35Yes, yes.
31:36But for her, it was a big deal, and she was really struggling.
31:39And she called me and said, I know you're a prayer warrior, and I really want you to pray for
31:43me.
31:44And, Joseph, I was so offended when she said that to me because I sat there thinking, my only prayer
31:50for the last seven months has been, God, why?
31:55And you're calling that a warrior?
31:57Like, of course she wasn't.
31:59She was saying it was like life before Harlan and life after Harlan.
32:02And life before Harlan, man, I was all about praying for people all the time.
32:08She needed my prayer then, and I wanted her off the phone.
32:11And so I said a prayer, an actual prayer.
32:15And as I was praying, something shifted.
32:18I could feel it physically.
32:20I could sense it.
32:22You needed that to shake you.
32:25Yeah, yeah.
32:26And I started reading the Psalms because for a long time, I thought David was probably bipolar because his Psalms
32:38were way up and manic and then way down.
32:44Yeah, bipolar before bipolar was cool, huh?
32:48Exactly, exactly, exactly.
32:50But then my daughter died, and I understood David on a whole different level at that point.
32:56So I started reading the Psalms, and I got to Psalm 139, and especially where it says, you hem me
33:03in before and behind.
33:04And I could just picture the Lord's hands just encasing me, and something shifted.
33:14And so gradually I crawled.
33:16I crawled back into his presence, and he started to reveal so many different paths for me than I thought.
33:29And what I thought was my purpose, which was just to get up, go to work, you know, drop my
33:36daughter off here, take my husband to work over here, and all of us are split up across town, became
33:43something so different.
33:44And my perspective shifted.
33:46I'll never forget getting a phone call at work.
33:48And it was a man who had a few different trust accounts, and he wanted to take assets from one
33:56trust account and transfer them to another so that he could make his boat payment.
34:00And I remember thinking, this is the most pointless, unimportant responsibility I could possibly have, that this man could make
34:11his boat payment.
34:12What am I doing here?
34:13My daughter is in the ground across town.
34:16My other daughter is in a daycare across town in someone else's care.
34:20Like, my husband is on the opposite side of town.
34:23What are we doing?
34:24I don't feel like this is God's design for family.
34:27I don't feel like this is God's design for my life.
34:30And so I really started asking him, like, what are we supposed to do here?
34:34Because I don't think this is it.
34:36And that's really kind of when it started.
34:39He put us on these different paths.
34:41And now I, gosh, my son is going to be 12.
34:45So for almost 13 years now, I've been working from home, part-time, you know, earning an income, homeschooling my
34:56kids, which I never thought I would do.
35:00You know, those homeschool families, they're weird.
35:03And that's what I thought.
35:05Yeah.
35:06Oh, that's the, well, that's the perception that the indoctrination families or factories want of those weird Christian sandal-wearing
35:19freaks only do it.
35:21Right?
35:21Yeah, yeah.
35:23Yeah, and I, I've been humbled in that so many times.
35:26And so many homeschool families are way cooler than I could ever hope to be.
35:31So, but yeah, I, and I think that just really the Lord opened a lane for me in where all
35:43the times that I was encouraged in those dark, dark days.
35:46And since he really heightened my empathy for other people, and now I am encouraging not only bereaved parents and
35:56bereaved mothers, but just mothers in general.
36:00And it was two years ago, just over two years ago, that I, I was sick with the most random
36:09sore throat I'd ever had.
36:12And I was listening to podcasts, which I did not do.
36:17And here you're on them now.
36:19Yeah, I'm on them.
36:20I remember thinking like, this would be so fun to host a podcast, but just because I can talk about
36:26anything doesn't mean I should probably.
36:28Well, you need my podcasting quick start guide.
36:33Is there any book you don't have, Joseph?
36:38No, or, or you need to, I need you to write a book about it by my how to write
36:45a book and get it published guide.
36:47Yeah.
36:48We're checking them off.
36:51And so I remember waking up the next morning after having a dream about hosting a podcast.
36:57And I thought, okay, Lord, if this is you, I'm listening.
37:02But like, if I just had some bad pizza or something, you know, who knows?
37:06Right.
37:07How do you distinguish?
37:08Right.
37:09Yeah.
37:09And so I prayed about it, right?
37:12Because I was like, I had that thought and then I had that dream and that's just too coincidental.
37:17I don't believe in coincidences.
37:19So I prayed about it.
37:20And immediately upon praying, I kind of downloaded this business plan.
37:25And so I'm typing it out.
37:27And I was quarantined in my bedroom.
37:30And so I emailed this plan to my husband as, as an idea.
37:34And my husband is, um, he's the guy who you'll understand this as an IT guy, Joseph.
37:43He's the guy who finds problems and tells me why things won't work.
37:49Ah.
37:50So when I run things, he tries to find the holes in the plan, which is good.
37:54Because then you know how to fill the hole.
37:58Yeah.
37:59That's what I keep telling myself.
38:01And so he, he replied after reading it and said, I love this and I want to hear more.
38:08Which coming from him was a really, really big deal.
38:12That was all, that was like a borderline raving review compliment.
38:17Who are you?
38:17What did you do with my real husband?
38:19Right?
38:20Yeah.
38:20Exactly.
38:21So after that, I was like, okay, Lord, like this is, I'm listening.
38:27So Brent and I, my husband, we were trying to come up with titles for it, looking for websites,
38:33looking for, you know, social media handles, social media.
38:39Anyway, so he was coming up with all of these names and they were awful.
38:45They were just terrible.
38:47And I thought to myself, you know, I'm smiling on the outside, trying to be supportive of his ideas,
38:54but just thinking on the inside, why is he trying to name a podcast about motherhood?
38:59He has no experience.
39:01And then I thought, oh, that's it.
39:03It's a motherhood experience.
39:05That's it.
39:06And so he was like, hey, that domain is available.
39:09These social handles are available.
39:11Should I buy it?
39:13And I hemmed and hawed because I didn't know, like it all was happening so fast.
39:18And I didn't want to get before the Lord on it.
39:20And I certainly didn't want to make more work for myself if I didn't have to.
39:25And I told him, I said, okay, yeah, go ahead and buy it.
39:28And as soon as he clicked purchase, my sore throat, in a way.
39:36And so now here we are.
39:38Your voice literally and figuratively cleared up.
39:43Yes.
39:44Yes.
39:44And so I was like, okay.
39:46So this, I love, it's the most fun assignment I've ever been given, but I still hold it with an
39:53open hand.
39:53At any time, the Lord can say, your assignment's done, you fulfilled it, but man, I'm having fun.
40:02Yeah.
40:02I want to start to wrap things up, but I want to go back to what you said about Psalms.
40:08It's important to understand because my show, I deal in the whole Bible in full context.
40:15And that's part of the problem.
40:17People want to pick and choose something and ignore the whole thing.
40:22And indeed, as you discovered, as you portrayed, you didn't need Psalms before then.
40:33It didn't apply to you before then.
40:36Different parts apply at different parts of our walk with Christ in life.
40:44Yeah.
40:45Yeah.
40:45And also, I mean, I will be the first to admit prior to that, I was a little arrogant in
40:51my Bible reading, you know, thinking that I didn't need it or it didn't apply to me.
40:57But Psalm 139, it talks about three very important characteristics of God, his omniscience, his omnipresence, and his omnipotence.
41:07And it really breaks it up beautifully into those three sections.
41:11But the whole chapter is encouraging, I mean, except for maybe the slay all my enemies part at the end.
41:19But even that has its day and time, right?
41:24For everything, there is a season.
41:26Yes.
41:27So true.
41:28So that chapter really ministered to me.
41:32And also knowing that, you know, I went from thinking that David was this, you know, mentally ill, you know,
41:42he'll go and fight giants or, you know, whatever the case.
41:47But also just his heart and his willingness to feel things as he felt them and to share those in
41:57written form is, I think, an encouragement to all of us.
42:01And we all should not shy away from, rather embrace, just acknowledging that the Lord can work through those.
42:11Yeah.
42:12I hear you, right?
42:14There's an unbeatable giant.
42:16Oh, let me at him.
42:18Yeah.
42:19That's not a generally sane kind of a thought.
42:25I do appreciate that spirit, though.
42:27And I think even, I think a younger Val probably would have had the same zeal.
42:33But, yeah, I agree with you in taking things in context.
42:37Yeah.
42:38And I'm glad you said your name again, because I haven't repeated it enough.
42:42You need, as a podcaster, so that the podcastees, as I call them, the listeners or the viewers, have it
42:51sink in.
42:52As someone involved in politics, I know you need to touch a person seven times, seven ways for things to
43:01stick.
43:02So, once again, Christitutionalist podcast listeners, I am Joe's favorite guest, Val Kleppen.
43:11No A in there.
43:13No A.
43:14Two E's.
43:16Spell it right.
43:17I will spell it right in post when I put it on the scrawl.
43:22Yeah, Val Kleppen, K-L-E-P-P-E-N, two Ps in there.
43:28So, do you have a, well, we know you have the website.
43:32You said you got a domain.
43:34What is it?
43:36That's right.
43:36You can find me at themotherhoodexperience.com, and that will have links to the current episode or the most recent
43:46episodes that will have links for contacting me.
43:49If you go to themotherhoodexperience.com forward slash learn more, that's how you can join my email list.
43:56We've got lots of fun things going on.
43:59Thank you, Val Kleppen, for joining today.
44:04I, well, there were parts that I was going to say it was a hoot.
44:08There were a few parts that, again, we kept our sense of humor about us.
44:13So, very serious topic, though.
44:16Very important topic for people to hear, as well as, again, that insane in the membrane if we don't keep
44:24a sense of humor and perspective and ability to self-reflect.
44:32A lot of times, as the old adage goes, you point the finger, three of your own fingers are still
44:40pointing back at you.
44:41You've got to self-reflect.
44:43Thine own self be true applies in many ways, and remove the log from thine own eye.
44:51So, yes, we've got to know what is our real place in this bigger part of the puzzle.
44:59So, thank you again, Val Kleppen, for coming by.
45:02I appreciate it.
45:03Thank you so much, Joe.
45:05Take care.
45:06God bless.
45:30Welcome to Michigan.
45:35Google Maps.
45:36Oh, four seasons in a day.
45:39Scrape the frost off your windshield.
45:44Then you're sweating by the bay.
45:48Winter storm watch, middle of May
45:55Mother nature shrugs her shoulders
45:58Doesn't care what you gotta say
46:02Welcome to Michigan
46:06Sunburned boots and a hoodie on
46:09Sky keeps changing, it's mine
46:14We all just play along
46:18Coffee in the morning
46:22Tailgating the freezing rain
46:27Seasonal affective disorder
46:29But we're laughing through the pain
46:35Lake effect headlines
46:37Phone buzz, no day in June
46:39Bear trees, green lawn, same street
46:41Same afternoon, we keep a coat in the backseat
46:44Sunglasses on the dash
46:46We plan our whole weekend
46:49Around a maybe kind of forecast
46:52Welcome to land
46:55Sunburned boots and a hoodie on
46:58Sky keeps changing, it's mine
47:02We all just play along
47:05Coffee in the morning
47:07Tailgate in the freezing rain
47:12Seasonal affective disorder
47:15But we're dancing in the strange
47:23Yeah, yeah, we're pale, yeah, we're tired, yeah, we still go out and stay
47:30Cause the sun hits just a second and we're all okay
47:33Okay, oh yeah
47:35Welcome to Michigan
47:37All four seasons in a day
47:40We joke that we might move someday
47:42But you know we're here to stay
47:45Coffee in the morning
47:47Laughing as the skies rearrange
47:51Seasonal affective disorder
47:54It's just the Michiganian way
47:57Welcome to Michigan
47:59All four seasons, all in one day
48:02Absolutely the Michiganian way
48:05Winter storm watch, middle of May
48:08Mother nature don't care what you got to say
48:10Seasonal affective disorder
48:13All year long, supposed to be sunny
48:16What went wrong?
48:18Scraped ice off my windshield
48:20In flip-flops, shorts and shades
48:23Sunburn on my left arm
48:26Right side, freezing in the sleep
48:29Grill smoking in the driveway
48:31Snowflakes in the lemonade
48:33Forecast said, it's fine today
48:36Guess that's just another cheat
48:40Welcome to Michigan
48:42All four seasons in a day
48:45Sky can't make up its mind
48:48Changes every mile you drive away
48:51Winter storm watch in the middle of May
48:53Mother nature shrugs and says
48:56I don't care what you got to say
49:00Hey, hey
49:01Welcome to Michigan
49:03We live on weather roulette
49:06Salt stains on my sneakers
49:09Pumpkin spice in late July
49:13Mosquitoes in the flurry
49:15Geeks confused up in the sky
49:17Mood swings with the barometer
49:20Blue light through my blinds at noon
49:23Coffee cup and a therapy lamp
49:26Trying to outshine the gloom
49:29Welcome to Michigan
49:51Welcome to Michigan
49:59All four seasons in a day
49:59But it gets heavy in the long, long days
50:02Seasonal sadness in the rear view glass
50:06Still we stay, we stay, we stay
50:09Welcome to Michigan
50:11All four seasons in a day
50:14We keep driving through the drifting rain
50:17Chasing any little break of gray
50:19Winter storm watch on your graduation day
50:23Mother nature smirks and says
50:25I-I-I-I-I-I don't care
50:27What you got to say
50:30Welcome to Michigan
50:31Yeah, we love it anyway
50:34Welcome to Michigan
50:41We love it anyway
50:48Like and subscribe
50:50To the Constitutionalist Politics Podcast
50:53And share episodes
50:55We need your help
50:57Thank you for having tuned in
51:00To another Constitutionalist Podcast Show
51:04I really appreciate that you stopped by
51:08Again, please like, share, subscribe
51:12We need you to help spread
51:15The Constitutionalist Movement
51:17Thank you again
51:19Take care
51:20God bless
51:21Love you all
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