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STRAIGHT TALK SEASON 2 E2 - DR REUBEN KIGAME
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00:00:14Mchii na uzwa, sisi tumelala, wakenya wanachezwa, karata na wachanche.
00:00:31Uongozi sarakasi, wa mikono ya mafala, ukatili umezidi miradi ni wizifiche.
00:00:45Kila kuchaoni ahadi, eti twalenga Singapore, ilihali vijana wetu, wainama kole chini.
00:01:00Barabara ndio miradi, chakula na afyango, jamani itabidi, tutoke usingizini.
00:01:14Amkeni wa Kenya, acheni kulala, msichague wakora, kuna watu wa safi.
00:01:28Chanukeni mapema, tuwa cheni ufala, Kenya mpia imefika, tuwa fukuze walathi.
00:01:50Welcome to Straight Talk, I'm Yvonne Chege.
00:01:54Today we host a man who many know and many Kenyans know as gospel music artist,
00:02:01a teacher, a journalist and now a bold voice in Kenya's political space,
00:02:07Dr. Ruben Kigame. Thank you so much for joining us.
00:02:12I'm glad to be here, Yvonne.
00:02:14From losing his eyesight at a young age to producing over 20 gospel albums.
00:02:2230 actually.
00:02:2330 gospel albums and advocating for justice and inclusive leadership,
00:02:28his journey has been anything but extraordinary.
00:02:32Now, he says he is ready to lead Kenyans as president.
00:02:39We want to ask you first as we begin, what informs your ambition?
00:02:45What do you see that others don't in Kenya?
00:02:48And most importantly, how can your vision, Dr. Kigame,
00:02:53resonate with a new generation of Kenyans?
00:02:58So let's begin where it all begins.
00:03:01I am a Kenyan, born here, lived here, studied here, made a family here,
00:03:09you know, done business here, run radio here, done stuff here.
00:03:15I am a bona fide, you know, Kenyan.
00:03:19And so I treat Kenya as my home.
00:03:24So it begins with sovereignty.
00:03:26I belong here.
00:03:28And so I've got to defend Kenya like my home.
00:03:31I have friends.
00:03:34I have family.
00:03:35I have young people that look up to me.
00:03:38And they all belong here.
00:03:41So Kenya must work for them.
00:03:44And so the beginning for me is that nobody can and nobody should take away the right to be Kenyan
00:03:54from me.
00:03:55And if they try, you fight for it like life and death.
00:04:01And we are not going to let anybody mess this country just because they want to do business with people's
00:04:07lives
00:04:08or they want to go to the moon and using our resources, whatever it is, we will not let them.
00:04:16I will not let them.
00:04:18So that's where it begins.
00:04:19That's where it begins.
00:04:20So, you know, it then, you know, boils down to the question of am I asking for something unrealistic, something
00:04:32that does not exist?
00:04:33Absolutely not.
00:04:34I'm asking for something that has been done before, beginning with your intro there, you know, the issue of disability
00:04:43or, you know, inconvenience, so to speak,
00:04:47has never stopped people from being presidents.
00:04:51President Abdulrahman of Indonesia was blind.
00:04:55He was, you know, a president from 1999 to 2001.
00:05:01The best example of a performing president in the U.S. was Delano Roosevelt, who took the U.S. through
00:05:10the Depression.
00:05:12Great Depression.
00:05:12Yeah.
00:05:13And if anyone could fix the Depression, then that's a great guy.
00:05:17He did.
00:05:18He was paralyzed from waist down.
00:05:21So from your perspective, you're saying.
00:05:23And so basically, let's just bring it home.
00:05:27We swore in President Mwaiki Baki on a wheelchair.
00:05:30So we're not reinventing the wheel here.
00:05:33So let's not have that conversation of it cannot be done.
00:05:37It has been done.
00:05:38And those who don't know that it has been done before are the fools.
00:05:43They are the ones that are going to drag us behind with, you know, broken records of, you know, you're
00:05:50blind.
00:05:51You know, you're blind.
00:05:52So what?
00:05:53I have done so many things despite my being blind.
00:05:56So and there are things I can do that they can't do.
00:05:59So so we'll not have that conversation.
00:06:02So let's have the real conversation of what what is Kenya all about?
00:06:07What does Kenya needs to become?
00:06:08Does Ruben Kigame have what it takes to fix Kenya?
00:06:11I do.
00:06:11I'm like an architect now.
00:06:13And you know the way an architect operates.
00:06:16You have a, you know, a blank field.
00:06:19And the architect can see exactly how the house will look like, where the bedroom will be, where the sitting
00:06:29room will be, where all your kitchen stuff will be.
00:06:32He can see all of that before it is even on paper.
00:06:35So really, your definition of president is like a CEO, somebody who plans and who will be able to oversee
00:06:42the vision of what Kenya should look like.
00:06:45A president presides.
00:06:48President, you know, you preside over a nation.
00:06:52And to preside over a nation, it's not just being a CEO.
00:06:57Because, I mean, Kenya is not a company.
00:07:00The British tried to make it look like a company, the Imperial British East Africa Company.
00:07:05And it's not a company.
00:07:07Kenya is a society.
00:07:09It's a home.
00:07:10So you've got to run away from the CEO mentality and instead adopt a father mentality.
00:07:20You're like a parent.
00:07:22There's no good and bad Kenyan.
00:07:24You've got to serve all of them.
00:07:27There is no young or old.
00:07:29They're all yours.
00:07:30You know, so you've got to possess the maturity.
00:07:35Or being able to bring everybody to the table.
00:07:39If there is food, you ask, has everybody eaten?
00:07:43If there is a shower place, has everybody showered?
00:07:46If there is education to attain, you know, who's missing this education?
00:07:51That's how you run Kenya.
00:07:53You don't run Kenya the way Ruto and his team are running it, like a business.
00:07:57Kenya is not a business.
00:07:58Let's get to then Dr. Ruben Kagame wants to vie for this position of father, yes, of the nation, right?
00:08:08Then one would honestly want to start from the beginning.
00:08:12We want to get to know you.
00:08:13And I think one of the first things one observes, yes, is that you lost your sight and you operate
00:08:23as a person with a disability.
00:08:26I actually do the opposite.
00:08:28I lost my sight, but I operate like somebody who can see.
00:08:33Yes.
00:08:33So how has that way of life challenged you up until this point?
00:08:43Well, it used to challenge me more before than it does now.
00:08:47Because when you grow, you understand the way society, you know, works.
00:08:52And there are times you have to fight society.
00:08:57There are times you have to ignore society.
00:08:59There are times you have to embrace the society.
00:09:03So because the natural thing society does to people living with disability is gag them.
00:09:11So that's the...
00:09:12Or try to suppress you.
00:09:13Yes, that's the status quo.
00:09:15You know, stay there, you're blind, where are you going?
00:09:17You know, that's how they handle you.
00:09:20If you have a physical disability, you have a hearing disability, that's how they handle me.
00:09:26They talk to me through proxies.
00:09:30Like if, you know, Yvonne, you're with me and we go somewhere, they'll say, Yvonne,
00:09:37that's how they relate to you.
00:09:41And you're standing right there.
00:09:42Right there, you know.
00:09:43So, you know, and even where I am CEO of something, where I am in charge, where I can do
00:09:51stuff,
00:09:52they still think that I'm dependent on somebody because that's the mentality.
00:09:58And so I've got to defy that.
00:10:00Okay.
00:10:01So I already began to defy it early.
00:10:04And so I've gotten used to benevolently being a rebel against being pushed down
00:10:13by all these stereotypes and so on.
00:10:18So I saw it in the education system.
00:10:22Apparently, I was not supposed to go to school.
00:10:24I went to school.
00:10:25I now have a doctorate.
00:10:27Now, I have seen it in the area of employment.
00:10:31I asked for a job.
00:10:32I'm qualified.
00:10:33I've trained for something.
00:10:34But they think, hmm, this guy, how will he grade the scripts as a mualimu?
00:10:39How will he?
00:10:40I mean, I've done it over and over.
00:10:42The issue is, how did I even go to school?
00:10:45You read using your eyes.
00:10:48I read using Braille and OCR, optical character recognition on the computer, and so on.
00:10:57But the people that really need education are those who think that we are that dependent.
00:11:04You know, even when it comes to family, when I tell people I have a wife, I have children,
00:11:11I have grandchildren, the mentality is, is that true?
00:11:15You know, and I always feel this unspoken thing.
00:11:19You have a wife and children.
00:11:21You know, you have that kind of mentality all over the place.
00:11:29But, so we are here to defy it, but benevolently so, because we want people to see and understand,
00:11:38rather than, you know, always have a perpetual combat.
00:11:42So, so being blind does not stop me from achieving anything, let alone doing, you know, running a country like
00:11:53Kenya.
00:11:53You do have a true story of resilience.
00:11:56Yes, a strong spirit.
00:11:59I wouldn't deny.
00:12:00What would you say is one defining moment for you in your life so far?
00:12:05Uh, towards resilience or?
00:12:08Just for you in general, what, what stands out for you in your life?
00:12:12There are negative ones and there are positive ones.
00:12:15Which one do you want first?
00:12:16Uh, let's start with the negative, I think.
00:12:19All right.
00:12:19So, uh, then the negative one, you know, that really sort of redefined my life was when I lost my
00:12:28first wife in a road accident.
00:12:30And so, I had an emotional crash because, uh, the accident was actually caused by a speeding matatu.
00:12:41And so, they've killed my wife and then the matatu guys sue me for a damaged matatu, you know, stuff
00:12:51like that.
00:12:52Oh, I'm sorry about that.
00:12:53Then I was, no, I'm fine.
00:12:54Now, so, uh, that, you know, that particular death left me, uh, with my three daughters, uh, 14, 12, and
00:13:04two.
00:13:05So, it's the two that I was really concerned about.
00:13:08Uh, now she's actually, um, you know, a third year student at the University of Nairobi.
00:13:14Um, but looking back, that death sort of rewrote my life because, you know, I was going in a particular
00:13:22trajectory.
00:13:23I was really doing very well.
00:13:26So, that sort of slowed me down a bit.
00:13:29But I'm now remarried and, uh, you know, resettled, uh, recalibrated my life and so on.
00:13:36So, on the negative side, uh, that, that was a really big downer.
00:13:42And, um...
00:13:43Thank you for sharing that.
00:13:44And, and, and let me say, it's not really unique to me because a lot of people in this society
00:13:50have lost loved ones.
00:13:52You know, you have children that are orphaned.
00:13:54I've, I've picked up some of them.
00:13:56I know what happens.
00:13:57Um, you have people, you know, that are treated like second class social people.
00:14:07You know, um, there are cultures that hit against you because you are a woman or because you are a
00:14:13man.
00:14:13So, all these stereotypes, um, that sort of reset my life in a big way but also gave me, uh,
00:14:21a lot more compassion and, uh, you know, I feel people, uh, very deeply.
00:14:28And so, when I say Utu, for example, uh, that, that human dignity or humanness should drive who we are.
00:14:39I'm not picking that from a philosophy book.
00:14:43It's from personal experience.
00:14:44And, and, and a real desire because I live with people.
00:14:48I listen to people.
00:14:49So, if you just come and trash people or reduce people to statistics, I'll fight you, literally, because I know
00:14:57it shouldn't happen.
00:14:58So, your motto then, Utu, Haki, Mardili.
00:15:02Yeah.
00:15:02It comes from a very lived perspective.
00:15:04Yes.
00:15:05Um, Utu, you see, I happen to have a faith background.
00:15:11I mean, I'm a Christian and, uh, very, very deeply theological.
00:15:18And so, I, I go back to Genesis 1 where it says God made us in His image and His
00:15:28likeness.
00:15:28So, that it's not like we are gods.
00:15:30It's, it's like there is a spark.
00:15:32There is something in us that reflects His nature.
00:15:35And so, that humanness, the fact that I am human, Yvonne, you are human, the crew that is recording this
00:15:44is human, Kenyans are human, we begin there.
00:15:48So, we are here together.
00:15:51I cannot come and abrogate the responsibility or the duty of being more human than you.
00:15:59There is no person who is more human than the other.
00:16:02Absolutely none.
00:16:02We are all born.
00:16:04Yes.
00:16:04We all go to the toilet, we all eat, we all bath.
00:16:07We all deserve.
00:16:08We all die.
00:16:09Dignity.
00:16:10Yes, and we'll all end up in the soil.
00:16:12So, if somebody wants to own the whole country, you know, uh, you've got to ask, why would you want
00:16:20to own, you know, 50,000 acres of land when there are people who are squatters?
00:16:27You know, why would you take your children to the best schools and then condemn the young people to, you
00:16:36know, not being able to get an education?
00:16:37So, part of humanity is equity as well?
00:16:41Yes, yes.
00:16:42Yes, equity and, uh, you know, I don't like philanthropy because it's like throwing stuff at people.
00:16:48Let's do what is right.
00:16:51And that drives to justice because you, you are human.
00:16:55So, you exercise justice.
00:16:58If, if I have a home and my neighbor does not have a home, of course, I will not have
00:17:04peace.
00:17:04Yes, but our politicians live as if you can, you can be in Rwanda next to a slum and have
00:17:13peace.
00:17:14You will not have peace.
00:17:15Or they think you just built higher fences to keep out.
00:17:19So, I'll tell you what I've done in Bunyore where I live.
00:17:23Yes.
00:17:24People told me, why don't you put up a wall around your compound?
00:17:28Say, why should I put up a wall?
00:17:31What am I hiding?
00:17:32What am I running from?
00:17:33I have neighbors on this side.
00:17:35I have neighbors on this other side.
00:17:37If I have electricity, they've got to have electricity.
00:17:41I mean, if I sunk a borehole and I got a lot of water.
00:17:47Yes.
00:17:48Okay.
00:17:48So, I don't use, you know, cancel water.
00:17:52I have water.
00:17:54Now, guess what?
00:17:55My neighbors don't have water.
00:17:57They don't have a borehole.
00:17:59So, why should I sell water to them?
00:18:01I have more than I will ever need.
00:18:03And you share.
00:18:04Of course.
00:18:05I tell them, here's the tap.
00:18:07Come and draw the water.
00:18:10And that's what I've been challenging.
00:18:13The MPs, the MCAs, the governor of the area.
00:18:16I'm saying, if a blind person can do it, I mean, it's, you have so much.
00:18:22So, if you have so much land, that was my point.
00:18:25And somebody else does not have land.
00:18:28Who do you think you are?
00:18:30I mean, how do you think you will even live?
00:18:33That's Utu now.
00:18:34That's Utu.
00:18:35It's a very challenging concept, let me say.
00:18:38But I like the idea that you're highlighting, that a negative moment that you've kindly shared with us, bringing you
00:18:47to the point of realizing Utu, equity and equality in life being very essential.
00:18:54Yeah.
00:18:54And more so, Yvonne, that what I went through is what a lot of people go through.
00:19:01So, there are a lot of people who are bereaved.
00:19:04So, I understand the bereaved because I have been bereaved myself.
00:19:09I understand persons living with disability because I live with disability myself.
00:19:14There was a time I looked for a job for so long they wouldn't hire me.
00:19:18I understand what young people are going through being jobless.
00:19:22So, it's not something I'm picking from a book.
00:19:26It's lived experience.
00:19:27Yes, lived experience.
00:19:28And that is what a lot of our leaders lack because they are insulated from people.
00:19:35They fly.
00:19:36They don't use the roads.
00:19:37They always have enough.
00:19:40They can go and shop in Paris or whatever, but they have ruined our marikitti.
00:19:45And so, the contrast I cannot live with because all of us are human.
00:19:53So, Utu, all of us must therefore receive the justice, the haki.
00:19:59And there are things that even the United Nations says are inalienable rights.
00:20:05So, you cannot deny them of any human being.
00:20:09For example, the right to life.
00:20:11You can't take somebody else's life and assume you're the only one who has the right to life.
00:20:18Even our constitution says, you know, that everyone has a right.
00:20:22So, you move from Utu to haki and then you come to the gem of them all, maadili.
00:20:32Because now maadili has got to do with values.
00:20:35Our constitution in Article 10, Chapter 6, you know, the public service 232.
00:20:41All these things boil to that if you are going to occupy an office, you've got to be a person
00:20:49of character.
00:20:50You've got to have, possess certain things.
00:20:54And you cannot make decisions in government without values.
00:20:59You cannot hold office without.
00:21:01Now, how do we put such requirements in the constitution?
00:21:07But they don't.
00:21:08Then, you know, run away from them.
00:21:11Yes.
00:21:11Live like animals of the wild.
00:21:14Yes.
00:21:14Jungle creatures.
00:21:15Kill at will.
00:21:17Abduct at will.
00:21:18And laugh all the way to the bank.
00:21:20Steal.
00:21:20Make people, you know, beggars in your own country.
00:21:24And then say you are leading.
00:21:25I want all of them out because they are not human.
00:21:30You know, C.S. Lewis used to, has written a book called The Abolition of Man.
00:21:35And the first chapter is titled Men Without Chests.
00:21:40So you have these people that feel nothing.
00:21:44They understand nothing.
00:21:46They're like creatures of the wild.
00:21:47That is what our politicians have become.
00:21:50You go to a funeral.
00:21:51People are grieving.
00:21:52You start dishing money and fighting over it and saying, you know, one term, two term.
00:21:59We are mourning.
00:22:00Those are not human beings.
00:22:02They are beasts.
00:22:04Absolutely.
00:22:05We definitely need to have that conversation.
00:22:07No, no, no.
00:22:07I mean, we must centralize that because we cannot have beasts ruling over humans.
00:22:16It's unacceptable.
00:22:18As a theologian.
00:22:19It's something, something that we all own.
00:22:21We know that the pipeline is performing well.
00:22:25It's actually earning us revenue.
00:22:27Safaricom is earning us revenue.
00:22:29You go and do the PPP, you know, public-private partnership.
00:22:34You sell it.
00:22:36Because you are who?
00:22:38No public participation.
00:22:40Parlamentarians are sitting there like stooges.
00:22:44Because I tell you, we cannot allow this to go on, Yvonne.
00:22:49It will not happen.
00:22:51Your anger is magnified.
00:22:54It's palpable.
00:22:55By every, well, majority of Kenyans at the moment.
00:22:58No, they're not angry enough, Yvonne.
00:22:59Kenyans are not angry enough.
00:23:01They would be following me.
00:23:03They would be funding me.
00:23:05They would be working with me to ensure we speed this up.
00:23:08We need to be more angry than we are.
00:23:11That's an interesting question.
00:23:12Why do you think that Kenyans are as complacent as we are?
00:23:16Seeing all of what is going on currently, there isn't a scandal day in, day out.
00:23:22You talk about Kenyatta National Hospital.
00:23:24You can talk about Nairobi Hospital.
00:23:25You talk about state house funding.
00:23:27You talk, there isn't a scandal that isn't going on in Kenya right now.
00:23:31And yet somehow those in power proceed to get away with it.
00:23:36We are not on the streets.
00:23:38There's no consequence for anything going on that we see.
00:23:43Why?
00:23:44There are three explanations for that.
00:23:46One is philosophical.
00:23:48I'll begin with a Chinese proverb.
00:23:50It says, if you want to know about the water, don't ask the fish.
00:23:55That is all they know.
00:23:57The environment is.
00:23:58So you treat Kenyans so badly that they get used to being treated badly.
00:24:07That is a psychological warfare politicians in Kenya have perfected.
00:24:12And it's not just in Kenya.
00:24:14It's around the world.
00:24:15That's what Trump is doing.
00:24:16He thinks he's the only human being in this world.
00:24:19And so he will say, I'm going to attack Venezuela because I want to.
00:24:25Okay.
00:24:26I'm going to attack Iran because they're a threat to us.
00:24:29Even when Iran is not posing a threat.
00:24:32And that is what Kenyan...
00:24:34It's a strategy.
00:24:35Yes.
00:24:35It's not even strategy.
00:24:39It's beastly behavior.
00:24:41You know, that's how animals of the world...
00:24:43You know, Jojo being more equal than others.
00:24:47Yes.
00:24:47Yeah.
00:24:47So here you are.
00:24:50The Kenyan leaders are behaving exactly like that.
00:24:52We're going to steal Mutadu.
00:24:55You know, Sisi Tuki Gonjeka Tanda, Dubai, Tanda, India.
00:24:59You know, they're all dying in India.
00:25:01But you are going to ruin our hospitals.
00:25:04That's beastly.
00:25:06So if you want to solve the problem, you've got to defy that.
00:25:13Because you've got to say no.
00:25:15And so that's what I'm asking Kenyans to do.
00:25:18The second explanation is that there is a political culture that Kenya has built.
00:25:26So that we do elections a particular way.
00:25:29Distribute money.
00:25:31Get into office.
00:25:32Get it back.
00:25:34Lie.
00:25:35You know, make people happy.
00:25:38Use all the gossip.
00:25:40That's why I'm excited about your media house here.
00:25:42You're getting into all this depth.
00:25:44So Kenyans are so used to being lied to.
00:25:49In fact, they're looking for the next liar.
00:25:51You know, they compete.
00:25:53Who will tell the most lies?
00:25:54And so it's become a political culture.
00:25:57And I'm saying we've also got to defy it and do politics differently.
00:26:05Be like the Ghanaians who the politicians come with rice.
00:26:12You'll not buy us using rice.
00:26:15And so we've got to defy that.
00:26:18Then the third one, and this is where I'm hoping, especially the middle class, the so-called middle class can
00:26:29sort of wake up.
00:26:31But we've got to be, we've got to get our ideology right.
00:26:38Because the middle class is behaving like, okay, they are victims, but they are also the most reluctant to engage
00:26:47that victim status.
00:26:48But also, I think many people are eating from the pot, so don't want to change their ideology.
00:26:55So here's the irony.
00:26:57You're eating from the pot of these beasts, and you yourself are in debt.
00:27:05You have loans.
00:27:07You know, everything you do, CRB stuff.
00:27:10And you're not going to release yourself from that because you want to maintain a particular status.
00:27:17You can only get out of that if you defy those who keep you there.
00:27:24And the people at the bottom, so to speak, excuse the expression, those who are not earning as much, those
00:27:30who, you know, are more angry than the middle class.
00:27:34And the middle class are the ones on WhatsApp, you know.
00:27:38They have so many groups just exchanging forwards, you know.
00:27:43But sooner or later, they're the ones who will be contributing for funerals.
00:27:47And weddings.
00:27:48And hospital bills.
00:27:48And hospital bills.
00:27:49Yes.
00:27:50Because they talk, oh, you know, this government is messing up health services.
00:27:56They know.
00:27:58But when you say, let's rise against that oppression, be careful, you know, so-and-so said this and this.
00:28:08So they don't move.
00:28:10And so the reason why we are not moving in Kenya towards a faster solution is, first of all, the
00:28:19middle class.
00:28:20And then the fact that we, the politicians have mastered the fact that once you are brought to a particular
00:28:30level, you will stay there.
00:28:31You know, for example, when you look at now how poor we are and it comes to elections, they make
00:28:42you so poor so that by the time they bring the money, you can't say no.
00:28:46I listened to Gashagua the other day.
00:28:48That's a point, yes.
00:28:49And he says, when Ruto comes to Mount Kenya, don't make noise to him.
00:28:58Take the money.
00:29:00Kula.
00:29:01Kula yi o pesa.
00:29:06Now, this is a national leader saying kunyonya is okay, saying that handouts are okay.
00:29:15I am saying, Gashagua, no.
00:29:18That's not how it goes.
00:29:20Handouts, no.
00:29:21And I'm telling Kenyans, send them away with their handouts and choose the people of Maadili, people of character.
00:29:31If you look at parliament today.
00:29:33There's an argument there, though, right?
00:29:35That somebody is, if it's 200 shillings, 1,000 shillings, right?
00:29:39It's to remember your values.
00:29:41But if they're handing out the money, what's the harm in taking it?
00:29:44So first, why are they handing that money to you?
00:29:49They're fooling you.
00:29:50They are bewitching you.
00:29:53They are asking you to accept handout culture.
00:29:57So it's the morality behind it that erodes upon the electorate.
00:30:02It's more than morality.
00:30:03It's actually demonic.
00:30:05It's like witchcraft.
00:30:06How can you accept to be poor for five years, nobody cares for you, and then just before the election,
00:30:13you pick the 200, Bob, to serve you for another five years of neglect?
00:30:19You're stupid.
00:30:21You're stupid.
00:30:22You're fools if you live that way.
00:30:24And that's why I like the young people.
00:30:27I am so excited about the Gen Z because they get it.
00:30:33They get it.
00:30:34It's like they're already down there.
00:30:38We are eating hell already.
00:30:40So you cannot buy us with money or you cannot buy us with hell.
00:30:46You know?
00:30:47So all the young people are asking for is accountability, leadership of integrity.
00:30:56You know, make life livable for us because we are Kenyan.
00:31:02They are not asking for anything else.
00:31:06Let us be able to go to school.
00:31:08Let us be able to get jobs.
00:31:11Ironically, that's what the leaders say they want to do.
00:31:15And yet they don't.
00:31:15And they don't do it.
00:31:17And so that's why I was on the streets with the Gen Zs.
00:31:21I was on the streets in Eldoret.
00:31:23I was on the streets in Mombasa.
00:31:25I was on the streets with the medical interns marching from Kenyatta Hospital to Afia House.
00:31:31I was on the streets with JSS leaders, I mean, JSS teachers in Migori.
00:31:40I mean, I get what they want.
00:31:44The leaders don't get anything.
00:31:47They don't seem to get even to understand where Kenya is.
00:31:52In fact, if a foreign government came today and they have come, they will buy these leaders like pigs in
00:32:00the market.
00:32:00We're seeing that top to bottom in Kenya at the moment.
00:32:04Everything is up for sale.
00:32:07Who is handling our minerals?
00:32:09Foreigners.
00:32:10Who is buying our identity cards?
00:32:13Foreigners.
00:32:13I mean, there are passports being given to rebels in Sudan.
00:32:21I'm telling you, that's how low we've sunk.
00:32:25Because we are ruled by fools, by thugs, by mafioso.
00:32:31And the time we say no is now.
00:32:36I mean, I can't just keep saying Kenyans, let's say no.
00:32:39You've got to understand why you need to say no.
00:32:42It's so interesting.
00:32:43You speak very, very passionately about Kenya being, you know, this is our lives, our future, you know, our children's
00:32:52future, our grandchildren's future.
00:32:54And somebody might ask, how does somebody who is a gospel musician or roots in gospel music have the right
00:33:02to tell us any of this information?
00:33:05What would you respond to that?
00:33:07Three things.
00:33:08One, they have made it difficult, impossible, even for me to do music.
00:33:15I'm a gospel musician, fine.
00:33:18Every time I make money, they take it in royalties.
00:33:22Okay.
00:33:23Okay.
00:33:23So you don't earn any money from the music that you're making?
00:33:25I'm earning some money, but I'm earning from YouTube.
00:33:28I'm earning from Spotify.
00:33:31But you mean...
00:33:32I'm not earning from the Kenya Music Copyright Society.
00:33:37I'm not earning sufficiently from the Skiza.
00:33:40Because hogs exist to take the little...
00:33:44And at least I can speak.
00:33:46I know thousands of musicians who are being robbed.
00:33:51I mean, you have people in office who are paid more than a million every month in these CMOs.
00:33:59When the people who produce that money are languishing...
00:34:04I went to bury one gentleman who could not even buy a coffin, having sung his music from 1962.
00:34:12It's embarrassing.
00:34:15It's diabolical.
00:34:17And so you have young people with talent.
00:34:19They come, they make their music.
00:34:22They actually, you know, get, you know, enough royalties.
00:34:28Then middlemen come and they take that money.
00:34:33Who are they?
00:34:35And I'm saying, Kenyans, we need to be angry enough to see that we have an animal culture.
00:34:40So in essence, like your experience in just the music industry itself has shown you how a breakdown in leadership
00:34:50can affect you.
00:34:51I began with gospel music because that's what you started with.
00:34:54Yes.
00:34:54That this government has made it difficult, even for artists, to make a living.
00:35:03The Kenya police band, the Kenya army on national days will use my music.
00:35:09They'll not pay a cent for it.
00:35:12Ruto will sing...
00:35:15With, you know, Kenya wildlife, I mean, different groups and so on.
00:35:21They will use the music.
00:35:23They used the music during their campaigns.
00:35:26Even, like in Raila and so on, they will use this music.
00:35:29They don't pay a cent.
00:35:32And you want me to sit there and say, keep using my music and don't pay.
00:35:37I'm just using myself as an example.
00:35:40If I am robbed by this country and I'm visible, what about the young people that are trying to break
00:35:48it, make way into their music and other arts industries?
00:35:53That must certainly inspire you to stand up and say, enough, enough.
00:35:58No, not just inspire me.
00:36:00I hate it.
00:36:02It is inhuman.
00:36:04That's why I'm calling them beasts.
00:36:06So I make money and you eat it, you take it.
00:36:09Who are you?
00:36:10Middlemen.
00:36:11So that's one.
00:36:12Two, when it comes to job, job creation and so on, you look at the rhetoric.
00:36:21You know, let's build industries.
00:36:24Let us create jobs.
00:36:27When it comes to doing that, the first thing they do is kill existing industries.
00:36:34So you have an industry like Kenya Pan Paper, Webuye, that was hiring thousands of Kenyans.
00:36:44If you go to Webuye, it's overgrown.
00:36:46The factory, the machines have rusted and wasted because somebody wants to import paper or sell wood.
00:36:55And so they defend that person and they cast away the lives of thousands of Kenyans.
00:37:01And you can talk about Mumiya's sugar.
00:37:03If you go to any supermarket shelf, you see Mumiya's sugar.
00:37:08You see Zoya's sugar.
00:37:10Yvonne, that is not from Mumiya's.
00:37:13That is not from Zoya.
00:37:14That is imported sugar from Brazil, from Somalia, et cetera, repackaged as, you know, local labels.
00:37:22Yes.
00:37:23That is diabolical.
00:37:26I am saying that is not how to create jobs.
00:37:30Because you're making a few people import and get the money, but you are taking away the jobs you are
00:37:35saying you are creating.
00:37:36Kikomi is dead.
00:37:38River Tex has been struggling.
00:37:40You know, thicker textile mills.
00:37:42We used to even have a refinery in Mombasa at Changamwe.
00:37:46I clearly hear your anger.
00:37:47Oh, my word.
00:37:48Kenyans are very angry.
00:37:50They are not angry enough, Yvonne.
00:37:51But does your anger qualify you to be a leader, to be a president or presidential aspirant?
00:37:59Okay.
00:37:59Can I go to the third one?
00:38:00Before we answer your question, the third thing is this, that we are partnering with foreigners to destroy the very
00:38:11foundations that we have worked so hard to build.
00:38:14For example, education.
00:38:16When Matiangi was minister for education, he introduced with the help of Americans and Canadians this thing called CBC.
00:38:28Now, they got tired of CBC.
00:38:30Now, they call it CBE.
00:38:33Now, this kind of education will come with the right jargonization.
00:38:38But it is actually education for enslavement, whereby you produce only certain type of people in particular job groups and
00:38:51call them pathways.
00:38:53And then you, because they are needed in Dubai or UAE or Europe or somewhere, you begin to export Kenyans
00:39:03instead of creating the jobs here.
00:39:07Now, is that the kind of education we want?
00:39:10There's something we bypassed in the introduction with regard to who I am.
00:39:15And let me just hitchhike on it.
00:39:19But I don't know who I am, Yvonne, in terms of the actual professional competency.
00:39:26Because if you put me in education, I've taught in high school, I've taught at the university, I'm a bona
00:39:32fide teacher.
00:39:33If you put me behind a microphone to run a broadcast, electronic media, you know, radio, television, I'll be at
00:39:40home.
00:39:41If you take me into social justice spaces, I am at home.
00:39:45If you take me into music and the arts, I am at home.
00:39:50Now, I'm just using this as an example.
00:39:55If you put me in a pulpit to teach theology or to preach a sermon, I am at home.
00:40:03And therefore, I would say, if you have that perspective of life, you approach it from an interdisciplinary angle, you
00:40:16are not limited to pathways.
00:40:19Today, if you give me a class at DASTA in information science, I will teach it comfortably.
00:40:27If you take me to a law school, I know you're a lawyer.
00:40:32If you take me there to teach ethics, I'll be fine.
00:40:36I can teach philosophy.
00:40:38If you take me to, you know, a studio to produce music and work with young people, I'll be at
00:40:46home.
00:40:48Now, those are the kinds of citizens we need to build so that you're not restricted.
00:40:53Suppose there are people, there are young people that are forced to be doctors and they can't stand blood.
00:41:00The parents want you to be a doctor.
00:41:02Then you realize later that that is not your thing.
00:41:07How do you move out of there if you have only one pathway?
00:41:11So I'm basically saying we're sold a lie for an education.
00:41:15I mean, you wanted education to be more practical.
00:41:18Just make 844 practical.
00:41:20You don't have to put up a whole system.
00:41:22It was a looting trap.
00:41:25So now we can answer the question.
00:41:27You're saying that you're imagining that this anger can therefore translate.
00:41:33How does it translate?
00:41:34How does your personal experience, your anger, what we're seeing in Kenya today, how does that translate into you being
00:41:44a president?
00:41:46So there are two things.
00:41:48We have a lot of angry people out there.
00:41:50We see them on social media, they're raving, they're, you know, on TikTok, you know,
00:41:59Now, you can rave all you want, but there has to come a point where you say, what do we
00:42:06do?
00:42:07And what most people are unwilling to do is offer themselves to become the answer.
00:42:14All I can do, Yvonne, is offer myself.
00:42:18That's all I can do.
00:42:20An election is about Kenyans choosing.
00:42:25We articulate these issues on programs such as this so that Kenyans know what we stand for, our philosophy.
00:42:32It's up to them to choose Akigame with a new way of doing things or retain Ruto with the old
00:42:40way of doing things.
00:42:41So you're saying your responsibility as a citizen is to provide an option other than what exists.
00:42:47Absolutely.
00:42:48And more than provide an option, work with citizens towards realizing that option.
00:42:54So we do civic education, we do political education, we do broadcasts such as these, and we also go to
00:43:00the field.
00:43:01I'm out there asking Kenyans to choose differently.
00:43:04To be fair, though, is the system fair to outsiders?
00:43:08You are an outsider trying to infiltrate a system that doesn't seem all the way fair.
00:43:16So let's first of all delete that word outsider because I am not an outsider.
00:43:22I am born here.
00:43:24I vote here.
00:43:26I pay taxes here.
00:43:28I consume this constitution.
00:43:30I have rights and so on.
00:43:33I am an insider.
00:43:35Well, by outsider, I think somebody would mean, you know, in terms of the political landscape.
00:43:40Yes, there are certain key players and parties that exist.
00:43:46They don't exist.
00:43:47And you seem to be outside of that ambit.
00:43:49No, they don't exist.
00:43:50They have abrogated that right to themselves.
00:43:53And we are saying it doesn't belong to them only.
00:43:58Presidency is not only for Kalenjins or Kikuyus or Luos or Luyas.
00:44:05It's not tribal.
00:44:07And, you know, MCEA spaces are not for certain families.
00:44:11I'm basically saying leadership is constitutional.
00:44:16Any of these young people can make it to be the president as long as they fulfill what it takes.
00:44:22And I'm saying, again, that we are not outsiders.
00:44:27You know, leadership is not for a particular people.
00:44:31Leadership is for who qualifies.
00:44:34Okay.
00:44:35That's very inclusive.
00:44:38But you're not convinced.
00:44:39I'm not quite.
00:44:41The other issue comes in with financing as well.
00:44:44No, no, no.
00:44:44Before we get to financing, let's take this to a different level.
00:44:51So the thought that some people, by virtue of being around for so long or doing things for so long,
00:45:01therefore have a right to be included on the ballot or in political spaces.
00:45:07Or we can see right now somebody's brother is being elevated to a very senior position without any experience.
00:45:15Somebody's son, somebody's daughter.
00:45:17And that is what I'm saying should never happen.
00:45:21That is what I'm saying is rogue politics.
00:45:24But it does happen.
00:45:25It does happen, but it shouldn't happen.
00:45:28Because constitutionally, it should not happen.
00:45:31You know, in terms of values, it should not happen.
00:45:34That's not how humans behave.
00:45:37That you grab everything for yourself and your friends and everybody can starve and die.
00:45:42That's not human behavior.
00:45:45That's animal behavior.
00:45:46Maybe it's a Kenyan behavior.
00:45:47No, it's animal behavior.
00:45:48It's beastly, jungle behavior.
00:45:51That's how it did.
00:45:52Animals of the wild.
00:45:54Fisi.
00:45:54Nanyani.
00:45:55That's how they behave.
00:45:57Humans have brains.
00:45:58Humans have hearts.
00:46:00Humans have society.
00:46:03We are in community.
00:46:06There's no way.
00:46:08I mean, no man is an island.
00:46:10You can't.
00:46:11You are not the only one who exists.
00:46:13There are 8 billion of us.
00:46:15Okay.
00:46:15Let's go back to financing.
00:46:16The second challenge, right?
00:46:17Because let's say me, somebody out there as an advocate, right?
00:46:22An architect would want to stand up for leadership.
00:46:26Yes.
00:46:26Your budget is 5 million shillings.
00:46:28Your opponent has 500 million shillings.
00:46:31How, as, again, an outsider, do you combat that kind of race?
00:46:36So, first of all, I'll still delete the word outsider and then argue and tell you, just go back to
00:46:44how all of these guys began.
00:46:47How did they ever get to where they are?
00:46:50It's not because they, first of all, amassed, you know, your 1 billion shillings.
00:46:57And, by the way, how people get money matters to me.
00:47:01That is one reason why even, you know, the way we run my campaign is going to be, I mean,
00:47:09has been and it's going to be different.
00:47:10Because you don't look for people that believe your ideology, that work with you, that are like you, like-minded,
00:47:23then you can work with them.
00:47:24And, today, and I'll say it on camera, if you came to me and say, Kigame, I want to fund
00:47:31your campaign.
00:47:32And, I'll tell you, keep your money because I don't want anything that will undermine my value-based philosophy, my
00:47:53character-driven philosophy.
00:47:55Money is not bad in itself.
00:47:58Where you get it from, how you use it matters.
00:48:01And, that is one big problem of Kenya.
00:48:03The fact that we can put together 3.9 trillion does not mean that, therefore, it must be spent in
00:48:10a particular way.
00:48:11It must be spent in a way that is constitutional, that works.
00:48:16So, money is important.
00:48:18And, my friends have funded my journey this far.
00:48:22I have not been greedy to buy into that philosophy.
00:48:26And, by the way, IEBC is a culprit in this.
00:48:29They even tell people to run a gubernatorial race.
00:48:32You need this much to run an MC.
00:48:34Who said?
00:48:35There are people in Kenya who have actually got into office without that kind of money.
00:48:40And, you see somebody, you know, campaigning on a bicycle.
00:48:44You see somebody, you know, campaigning on foot.
00:48:47They've won.
00:48:48So, it is not a norm.
00:48:51It is not normative.
00:48:53No.
00:48:54You seem to be working from a very idealistic perspective, which isn't a bad thing.
00:49:00It is a good thing.
00:49:01Based fully on your ideology, your values, your morality.
00:49:04How do you feel about working with other members of the opposition, perhaps forming a coalition in order to fight
00:49:13the current regime?
00:49:14So, people demonize idealism as if it's not realism.
00:49:21You know, when I say I want a people-centered leadership, that is not out of this world.
00:49:29It is possible.
00:49:31It's reachable.
00:49:32When I say I want maadili, it is doable.
00:49:36It's reachable.
00:49:37When I say my three agenda, you know, package is about bomoa ufisadi, dismantle corruption.
00:49:47You know, tekeleza katiba, implement the constitution.
00:49:52Jengam Kenya, empower the individual Kenyan citizen.
00:49:56That is not idealistic.
00:49:58It is reachable.
00:49:59It is measurable.
00:50:00It can be done.
00:50:02We have the money.
00:50:03We can do it.
00:50:04When I say my philosophy is utu, haki, and maadili, that sets me apart from all the other players.
00:50:14Because Moy had, you know, peace, love, unity.
00:50:17You know, Ruto has bottom up.
00:50:19I have utu, haki, and maadili.
00:50:22I have utu, haki, and maadili.
00:50:22Gashagua sijui yake.
00:50:24Linda Mwanainji sijui yao.
00:50:27I'm not sure which maraga yake ni gani.
00:50:31This is mine.
00:50:32Utu, haki, and maadili.
00:50:34That's what I want Kenyans to know.
00:50:36And then, bomo wa ufisadi, tekeleza katiba, jenga mkenya.
00:50:40That's what I want to be measured by and judged by.
00:50:44So, as to whether I can work with other people, absolutely.
00:50:49As long as wanaingiana na philosophy yangu, as long as the wanaingiana na agenda yangu.
00:50:55That's why I am predisposed towards the young people, because they seem to understand what I want.
00:51:02They seem to be pursuing what I want.
00:51:04I can work with any of these Gen Zs on their agenda.
00:51:08I find it a bit difficult for someone to abrogate to themselves the official opposition.
00:51:13Who told them they're the official oppositions?
00:51:15These are the nadco agents that want to expand government.
00:51:21You know, the linda ground people that want broad-based politics.
00:51:24I don't want broad-based politics.
00:51:27I don't want it.
00:51:28Because that makes the government bigger.
00:51:30You spend more, therefore Kenyans get less.
00:51:33And it gets all these people in office because they like each other.
00:51:37They know each other.
00:51:38No, we want a Kenya that works.
00:51:40I actually want a lean government.
00:51:42I want a small government that works for the 55 million Kenyans.
00:51:47All right.
00:51:48Lastly, there's a voter register predicted to be 28 million votes,
00:51:54of which 14 million is Gen Z.
00:51:56How are you going to appeal to the Gen Zs?
00:51:59I don't think that's accurate because if you go by the 2022 margins,
00:52:07you had 8 million people that did not vote,
00:52:11although they have their voters card.
00:52:16And so if you put the 7 million of RUTO,
00:52:21another 7 million of RILA,
00:52:25and you put another 8 million,
00:52:28you are already at 22 million or thereabout.
00:52:34And then we are trying to register maybe another 6 or 7 million.
00:52:39We may or we may not get there.
00:52:42So the thing that I was saying is wrong about the stats there
00:52:47is that within the 22 million are also young people
00:52:52that just wanted to vote differently.
00:52:56And so they are already there.
00:52:59So you're only adding to the number.
00:53:01So I would like to say that whether you are dealing
00:53:05with 12 or 14 million young people,
00:53:08these are, for me, the real game changer for Kenya
00:53:12because 70% or so of our population is actually young.
00:53:17And so if we don't make decisions that work for the young people
00:53:23of now and posterity, it's better not to do politics at all.
00:53:27Okay. How do you get them motivated to vote?
00:53:34Yeah. So one is I'm involved with this Niko Kadi movement.
00:53:39And this week I'm actually going to be taking some young people
00:53:43to register.
00:53:44And also I've been helping those in the countryside
00:53:49that do not have ID cards and so on.
00:53:52There are a lot of those that graduated from high school
00:53:54that don't have.
00:53:54And so I've been going to chiefs and sub-chiefs and so on,
00:53:59village elders, ensuring that they get these guys registered.
00:54:04And that's the way to go.
00:54:05And I want to call upon other people around the country.
00:54:09Any leader of their worth should be helping these young people
00:54:12to get registered and to get ID cards.
00:54:15Because the ID cards will help them not just for the election,
00:54:18but also when they need jobs, et cetera.
00:54:21Okay. I think one other question I would like to ask
00:54:25is how you compete against personality-driven politics, right?
00:54:30Yeah, that's a good question.
00:54:32People are misled currently.
00:54:34We're seeing lots of infaults being flung back and forth.
00:54:37There's no discussion as to values,
00:54:40as to the direction of the country in any capacity whatsoever.
00:54:44How do you fight against that?
00:54:45And so that's why I'm saying every time Kenyans go to an election,
00:54:51look at the character of the person,
00:54:53look at the philosophy of a person.
00:54:55That's the ideology that drives them.
00:54:56And then look at the consistency of the person and so on.
00:55:01So, for example, up to this time,
00:55:04you know, if I was to give in to the nonsense of running things
00:55:08the way other people run them,
00:55:10by now you'd be seeing me insulting people all over the place.
00:55:13That is what demarcates me from the other politicians
00:55:18because I come from the belief and conviction
00:55:22that politics is not about insults.
00:55:25And once you have that, you know, philosophy,
00:55:30then you live by it because consistency is also important.
00:55:34So you will never hear me spill out an insult
00:55:39or name-calling, body-shaming, and so on.
00:55:42But the problem is name-calling insults generates headlines, yes?
00:55:47Steers conversation, not just in the media,
00:55:51but also amongst Kenyans themselves.
00:55:53So, yes, you might maintain your value, yes?
00:55:56But nobody is talking about how principled Dr. Kigame is.
00:56:00Everyone is talking about who name-called and shamed who yesterday.
00:56:05How do you fight that?
00:56:07Yeah, so let's begin right there
00:56:09because the fact that these name-callings,
00:56:13the body-shamings make headlines
00:56:15does not mean that they should.
00:56:18In fact, at that point, I begin by media ethics.
00:56:22Everybody goes to media school and you're taught ethics.
00:56:26So why do we throw those ethics out of the window
00:56:29and mainstream things that even our own children
00:56:34would not want to watch?
00:56:37And journalists have children.
00:56:40They have families.
00:56:42How would they want, you know,
00:56:45Ruto and Gashagua exchanging obscenities and so on
00:56:48on the screen?
00:56:49So the fact that that is what sells
00:56:52does not mean it should sell.
00:56:55It should actually embarrass us, you know,
00:56:57to be able to degenerate to that point.
00:56:59We are not animals again.
00:57:01We are human beings.
00:57:03Now, secondly,
00:57:04that that is what Kenyans enjoy and so on.
00:57:07I beg to differ
00:57:09because the bulk of the Kenyans I talk to
00:57:12say that is embarrassing,
00:57:14it's demeaning,
00:57:15and we want people of character.
00:57:18Okay.
00:57:19How, if you were to be elected,
00:57:21how would your administration fight
00:57:23political patronage and
00:57:25ethnical
00:57:27division of positions?
00:57:29Great question.
00:57:30So first of all,
00:57:32how would I form my government?
00:57:34There's a constitutional,
00:57:35you know,
00:57:36blueprint,
00:57:37and then there is a personal blueprint.
00:57:41Constitutionally,
00:57:41when you talk about a national government,
00:57:44you're talking about inclusion.
00:57:45And inclusion is not just about,
00:57:48you know,
00:57:49having four or five different communities
00:57:52at the table.
00:57:54You've got to show a national outlook.
00:57:57You don't do things the way Kenyatta,
00:58:01I mean,
00:58:01Uhuru Kenyatta and Bruto have done
00:58:03for the last 13 years,
00:58:05whereby you actually reduce
00:58:09the allocation of positions
00:58:11to two or three communities
00:58:13when we are 42.
00:58:15So I would like to ask
00:58:17how many positions are at the table?
00:58:20So if you have,
00:58:21if you need 18 or 20 CSs,
00:58:24then you go regional.
00:58:26You know,
00:58:27across this country,
00:58:28you have people who are qualified.
00:58:31And so you have to make Kenya work
00:58:34by being inclusive in appointments.
00:58:37And then there are other cadres below,
00:58:40CSs,
00:58:40you have,
00:58:41you know,
00:58:41the public service,
00:58:42you have all these parastatels and so on.
00:58:45You've got to show a national image.
00:58:48And maybe,
00:58:50you know,
00:58:51you may not be able to find
00:58:53people from every community.
00:58:55You've got to,
00:58:56however,
00:58:58bring to the table
00:58:59the kind of platform
00:59:00that convinces people
00:59:02that you are not only looking
00:59:04to make people,
00:59:05appointments from your own community.
00:59:07So for example,
00:59:08being a lawyer myself,
00:59:10there's no way
00:59:11I can flood,
00:59:12you know,
00:59:13government
00:59:13with lawyers only.
00:59:15Of course,
00:59:16the lawyers say that
00:59:17that is how it should be done.
00:59:18But the constitution,
00:59:20reality,
00:59:21and the way,
00:59:22I mean,
00:59:22this is Kenya.
00:59:22I'm not looking for,
00:59:24you know,
00:59:25being a leader
00:59:27within the village.
00:59:28If it's a village,
00:59:29then I appoint village people.
00:59:30But even there,
00:59:31I have to be fair.
00:59:32But being a president
00:59:34of Kenya
00:59:35implies that
00:59:35everybody in Kenya
00:59:36is at the table
00:59:37and is welcome
00:59:38and is treated fairly.
00:59:40And that also goes
00:59:41to development.
00:59:43You don't concentrate
00:59:45development in one area
00:59:46or punish people
00:59:48because they didn't
00:59:49vote for you.
00:59:50You know,
00:59:51that's why I said
00:59:52presidency is like
00:59:53a father figure.
00:59:54You have to love
00:59:55all your children.
00:59:57They are your children.
01:00:00So you've got
01:00:01to serve all of them.
01:00:03How would you work
01:00:05then to grow
01:00:05Kenya's economy
01:00:06alongside that
01:00:07train of thought?
01:00:09Fantastic.
01:00:10So the first thing
01:00:11to grow Kenya's economy
01:00:12is to go to
01:00:14where the wastage is
01:00:15because we have
01:00:16so much money
01:00:17but it's being wasted.
01:00:18So we have
01:00:19what we call
01:00:19an economic hemorrhage.
01:00:21You've got to
01:00:22seal those loopholes.
01:00:25The second place
01:00:26to go is
01:00:27debt management
01:00:28because
01:00:29the previous
01:00:31presidents
01:00:33except for
01:00:34Kibaki
01:00:35have looted
01:00:36the economy
01:00:37in the name
01:00:38of development
01:00:39but you never
01:00:39see the development
01:00:40itself.
01:00:41So you've got
01:00:41to go there
01:00:42and deal with
01:00:44either renegotiating
01:00:45some of the debts
01:00:47towards cancellation
01:00:48and or
01:00:49repackaging
01:00:51the repayment
01:00:52periods
01:00:53so that
01:00:54they are able
01:00:54to allow you
01:00:55to do development
01:00:56and then
01:00:56pause on
01:00:57certain developments
01:00:58because you don't
01:00:59have to develop
01:00:59everything at the
01:01:00same time.
01:01:01Ruto is a master
01:01:02at saying
01:01:04he's developing
01:01:04everything.
01:01:05Every single day
01:01:06he's promising
01:01:07something that
01:01:07he's going to do
01:01:08and he has
01:01:10one year in office
01:01:11to go.
01:01:11That's why you
01:01:12saw me post
01:01:13on my ex-account
01:01:14the other day
01:01:14that a president
01:01:16who makes
01:01:17all these
01:01:17commitments
01:01:18way beyond
01:01:20his time
01:01:20in office
01:01:21should be
01:01:21restricted
01:01:22by the
01:01:22time
01:01:22in office
01:01:23he has
01:01:24because
01:01:24how do
01:01:26you
01:01:26make
01:01:27bad
01:01:27decisions
01:01:28that will
01:01:28span
01:01:2930 or
01:01:2950 years
01:01:30to punish
01:01:31generations
01:01:32and then
01:01:33you are
01:01:34immune
01:01:35from
01:01:35prosecution.
01:01:36The least
01:01:37we should
01:01:37do
01:01:38is
01:01:38prosecute.
01:01:39And then
01:01:39of course
01:01:39with regard
01:01:40to
01:01:41job
01:01:42creation
01:01:42we've
01:01:43got to
01:01:43industrialize.
01:01:44There's
01:01:45no two
01:01:45ways
01:01:46about
01:01:46that.
01:01:47We've
01:01:47got to
01:01:47build
01:01:48industries
01:01:48and
01:01:49resuscitate
01:01:49the ones
01:01:50that are
01:01:50dead
01:01:50so that
01:01:51the jobs
01:01:52are created
01:01:52here.
01:01:53We've
01:01:53got to
01:01:53export
01:01:54more than
01:01:55import
01:01:55and then
01:01:56we've
01:01:57got to
01:01:58even look
01:01:59at the
01:01:59way we
01:02:00do
01:02:00the
01:02:01shift
01:02:02the
01:02:02working
01:02:02shifts.
01:02:03I have
01:02:04been
01:02:04proposing
01:02:04that we
01:02:05push
01:02:05towards
01:02:05a
01:02:06two
01:02:06shift
01:02:06day
01:02:07so that
01:02:08a student
01:02:09can go
01:02:09to school
01:02:10in the
01:02:10morning
01:02:10and then
01:02:12take up
01:02:12a job
01:02:13in the
01:02:13evening
01:02:13part
01:02:15time.
01:02:15So
01:02:15we've
01:02:16got to
01:02:17push
01:02:18all the
01:02:18way
01:02:18to
01:02:21production
01:02:23that
01:02:23limits
01:02:24wastage
01:02:25in
01:02:25areas
01:02:26like
01:02:26agriculture
01:02:27and so
01:02:27on.
01:02:28There's
01:02:28so much
01:02:29post-harvest
01:02:30losses
01:02:30and so
01:02:31on.
01:02:31You deal
01:02:31with that
01:02:32and it
01:02:32all begins
01:02:33with budgeting
01:02:34because you
01:02:35see Kenya
01:02:35has been
01:02:35living without
01:02:36a budget
01:02:37from
01:02:372022
01:02:38actually.
01:02:39So that
01:02:40you have
01:02:41projections
01:02:42and wishes
01:02:43on paper
01:02:43instead of
01:02:45actually
01:02:45asking the
01:02:46question
01:02:47what is
01:02:47it that
01:02:48comes
01:02:48in
01:02:48how
01:02:48can
01:02:49we
01:02:49spend
01:02:49it.
01:02:50You
01:02:50are
01:02:50budgeting
01:02:51even
01:02:51for
01:02:51what
01:02:51you
01:02:52don't
01:02:52have.
01:02:53That's
01:02:53why you
01:02:53can
01:02:54talk
01:02:54about
01:02:54five
01:02:55trillion
01:02:55budget
01:02:56when you
01:02:57can only
01:02:57raise
01:02:57maybe
01:02:58three
01:02:58trillion.
01:02:59So
01:02:59naturally
01:03:00you end
01:03:01up
01:03:01borrowing.
01:03:01And so
01:03:02that
01:03:02really
01:03:03yokes
01:03:03us.
01:03:04And
01:03:05then of
01:03:05course
01:03:06to
01:03:06help
01:03:07the
01:03:07young
01:03:07people
01:03:07we've
01:03:08got
01:03:08to
01:03:08open
01:03:09up
01:03:09the
01:03:09internship
01:03:10and
01:03:10attachment
01:03:10opportunities
01:03:11so
01:03:12that
01:03:12when you
01:03:12leave
01:03:13school
01:03:13you've
01:03:14got the
01:03:14experience
01:03:14and
01:03:15maybe
01:03:15lengthen
01:03:15it a
01:03:15bit
01:03:15so
01:03:16that
01:03:16you
01:03:16are
01:03:16able
01:03:17to
01:03:18have
01:03:18a
01:03:19young
01:03:19man
01:03:19say
01:03:19I've
01:03:19been
01:03:19in
01:03:20that
01:03:20company
01:03:20for
01:03:20two
01:03:20years
01:03:21this
01:03:21is
01:03:21the
01:03:21experience
01:03:22I
01:03:44you
01:03:44know
01:03:45that
01:03:45certain
01:03:45things
01:03:46work
01:03:46so
01:03:46you
01:03:47are
01:03:47not
01:03:47going
01:03:47to
01:03:47try
01:03:47and
01:03:47say
01:03:48can
01:03:48they
01:03:48work
01:03:48you
01:03:49know
01:03:49why
01:03:50reinvent
01:03:50the
01:03:51wheel
01:03:51you
01:03:52know
01:03:52how
01:03:52roads
01:03:53are
01:03:53built
01:03:54economically
01:03:55you
01:03:55know
01:03:55how
01:03:56you
01:03:57know
01:03:57you
01:03:58can
01:03:58do
01:03:58agriculture
01:03:59you
01:03:59know
01:03:59how
01:04:00you
01:04:00can
01:04:00do
01:04:00education
01:04:01different
01:04:01so
01:04:01all
01:04:02these
01:04:02things
01:04:03are
01:04:04available
01:04:04the
01:04:04issue
01:04:05is
01:04:05the
01:04:05will
01:04:05to
01:04:05do
01:04:06them
01:04:06the
01:04:07lack
01:04:07of
01:04:07political
01:04:08will
01:04:08absolutely
01:04:09or
01:04:09at
01:04:09least
01:04:10political
01:04:10class
01:04:11seems
01:04:14I
01:04:15think
01:04:15as
01:04:15we
01:04:16are
01:04:16heading
01:04:16towards
01:04:172027
01:04:18the
01:04:18question
01:04:18of
01:04:19IEBC
01:04:19is
01:04:20prominent
01:04:21in
01:04:21all
01:04:22of
01:04:22our
01:04:22minds
01:04:22do
01:04:23you
01:04:23have
01:04:23trust
01:04:24in
01:04:24the
01:04:24IEBC
01:04:25a
01:04:26little
01:04:26bit
01:04:27not
01:04:27too
01:04:27much
01:04:27and
01:04:29some
01:04:30of
01:04:30it
01:04:30will
01:04:30unfold
01:04:31in
01:04:33view
01:04:33of
01:04:33how
01:04:33they
01:04:33behave
01:04:34as
01:04:34we
01:04:35near
01:04:35the
01:04:35elections
01:04:36for
01:04:37example
01:04:38everybody
01:04:39in
01:04:40Kenya
01:04:40and
01:04:41outside
01:04:41Kenya
01:04:41knows
01:04:42that
01:04:43Smartmatic
01:04:44is
01:04:45problematic
01:04:47and
01:04:48so
01:04:48if
01:04:49we
01:04:49already
01:04:50know
01:04:50that
01:04:50they
01:04:51are
01:04:51thieves
01:04:51they
01:04:52are
01:04:52liars
01:04:52they
01:04:53are
01:04:53misappropriators
01:04:55of
01:04:55data
01:04:56if
01:04:57you
01:04:57ever
01:04:57tell
01:04:58me
01:04:58that
01:04:58Smartmatic
01:04:59is
01:04:59going
01:05:00to
01:05:00man
01:05:00the
01:05:00next
01:05:00election
01:05:01I'll
01:05:01kill
01:05:01you
01:05:02I
01:05:03mean
01:05:03in
01:05:03pun
01:05:04I
01:05:05don't
01:05:05want
01:05:05it
01:05:06I
01:05:07mean
01:05:07that's
01:05:07that's
01:05:08suicide
01:05:08we
01:05:09don't
01:05:10want
01:05:10Smartmatic
01:05:11to run
01:05:12our
01:05:12elections
01:05:13the
01:05:13Venezuela
01:05:13you
01:05:14know
01:05:14we
01:05:15don't
01:05:16want
01:05:16that
01:05:16secondly
01:05:18there
01:05:19are
01:05:19repeated
01:05:22provisions
01:05:23by young
01:05:24people
01:05:24that you
01:05:25could
01:05:25actually
01:05:26do
01:05:26blockchain
01:05:27digital
01:05:29voting
01:05:30and
01:05:31accomplish
01:05:31it
01:05:31faster
01:05:32cheaper
01:05:32etc
01:05:33these
01:05:34solutions
01:05:34exist
01:05:35and they
01:05:36are in
01:05:36the
01:05:36public
01:05:37domain
01:05:37so
01:05:38if
01:05:38IBC
01:05:39is not
01:05:39going to
01:05:40be
01:05:40listening
01:05:40to this
01:05:41then
01:05:41I'm
01:05:42also
01:05:42not
01:05:42listening
01:05:43to
01:05:43them
01:05:43because
01:05:44they
01:05:44would
01:05:44have
01:05:45ulterior
01:05:45motives
01:05:46most
01:05:47of
01:05:47all
01:05:48the
01:05:48voter
01:05:49register
01:05:50has
01:05:51to be
01:05:51combed
01:05:53to such
01:05:54an extent
01:05:55that we
01:05:56develop
01:05:58faith
01:05:58in the
01:05:59system
01:05:59because
01:06:00as it
01:06:01has been
01:06:02before
01:06:03you find
01:06:04that people
01:06:05are in the
01:06:05system that
01:06:06should not
01:06:06be there
01:06:07we also
01:06:07have ghost
01:06:08voters
01:06:08in there
01:06:09and ghost
01:06:10polling
01:06:10stations
01:06:10etc
01:06:11so there
01:06:12are
01:06:12conversations
01:06:12to have
01:06:13before we
01:06:13actually
01:06:14go to
01:06:14the
01:06:15elections
01:06:15there's
01:06:15a lot
01:06:16of work
01:06:16to be
01:06:17done
01:06:17there are
01:06:18lots
01:06:18of
01:06:18conversations
01:06:19it's not
01:06:20the work
01:06:20they have
01:06:21the money
01:06:21they can
01:06:21do the
01:06:22work
01:06:22they are
01:06:22hired
01:06:22to do
01:06:23the work
01:06:23it is
01:06:24doing
01:06:24the right
01:06:25thing
01:06:25that we
01:06:26need
01:06:26lastly
01:06:27before we
01:06:28let you
01:06:28go
01:06:28dr
01:06:29kigame
01:06:29if
01:06:29if you
01:06:30don't
01:06:31win
01:06:31what's
01:06:32next
01:06:32for you
01:06:33after
01:06:33that
01:06:35right
01:06:35now
01:06:35i teach
01:06:38i write
01:06:39music
01:06:39and produce
01:06:40i do
01:06:40mentorship
01:06:41and so
01:06:41on
01:06:42the world
01:06:42will never
01:06:43come to
01:06:43an end
01:06:44just because
01:06:44i didn't
01:06:45win
01:06:45the question
01:06:47should be
01:06:47reversed
01:06:49if i don't
01:06:51win
01:06:51what will
01:06:52kenyans
01:06:52lose
01:06:56maybe that's
01:06:57the question
01:06:58that they can
01:06:59answer
01:06:59by listening
01:07:00to this
01:07:01broadcast
01:07:01so this
01:07:02is a
01:07:03different
01:07:03way of
01:07:04doing
01:07:04kenya
01:07:05that is
01:07:05on the
01:07:06table
01:07:06it's
01:07:06on offer
01:07:07you can
01:07:08have it
01:07:08if you
01:07:09don't
01:07:09have it
01:07:09i don't
01:07:10lose
01:07:10you lose
01:07:11dr
01:07:12kigame
01:07:12thank you
01:07:14so much
01:07:14for joining
01:07:15us
01:07:15you
01:07:16eloquently
01:07:17describe
01:07:18yourself
01:07:18as a
01:07:19benevolent
01:07:19rebel
01:07:20and i
01:07:20really do
01:07:21think you
01:07:22are having
01:07:22had a
01:07:23conversation
01:07:23with you
01:07:24now
01:07:24i like
01:07:24the description
01:07:25that you
01:07:26are a
01:07:26benevolent
01:07:27rebel
01:07:27yes
01:07:28i'm a
01:07:29radical
01:07:31rebel
01:07:33you're
01:07:33radical
01:07:34i am
01:07:35radical
01:07:36we
01:07:36wish you
01:07:38the best
01:07:39thank you
01:07:39in your
01:07:40campaigns
01:07:41over the
01:07:41next year
01:07:42and a
01:07:42half
01:07:42thank you
01:07:43truly with
01:07:43your values
01:07:44with the
01:07:45manner in
01:07:46which you
01:07:46speak i
01:07:47think you'll
01:07:47be an
01:07:47interesting
01:07:48challenge to
01:07:49the establishment
01:07:50did you hear
01:07:51my commitment
01:07:52though that i
01:07:52they had
01:07:53there was
01:07:54the philosophy
01:07:54and then there
01:07:54was a
01:07:55commitment
01:07:55the bomoa
01:07:56fisadi
01:07:56tekeleza
01:07:57katiba
01:07:57jengam
01:07:58kenya
01:07:58that's what
01:07:59we want
01:07:59to sell
01:08:00in the next
01:08:01one and a
01:08:02half years
01:08:02that's dr
01:08:04ruben
01:08:04kigame
01:08:05musician
01:08:06activist
01:08:07and presidential
01:08:09hopeful
01:08:09sharing his
01:08:10vision for
01:08:11kenya
01:08:12as the
01:08:13country
01:08:13continues to
01:08:14grapple
01:08:15with questions
01:08:15of leadership
01:08:16accountability
01:08:17and the
01:08:18future
01:08:19voices
01:08:20like dr
01:08:21kigame's
01:08:22are adding
01:08:22a different
01:08:23perspective
01:08:24to the
01:08:24national
01:08:25conversation
01:08:26the question
01:08:27remains
01:08:28will kenyans
01:08:29embrace a
01:08:30new kind
01:08:31of leadership
01:08:32i'm yvonne
01:08:33chege and
01:08:34this has been
01:08:35straight talk
01:08:36thank you
01:08:36for watching
01:08:52mchii na
01:08:54uzwa
01:08:55sisi
01:08:57tumelala
01:08:59wakenya
01:09:01wanachezwa
01:09:03karata
01:09:05na
01:09:05wachanche
01:09:09ungozi
01:09:10ungozi
01:09:10sarakasi
01:09:11wa mikono
01:09:13ya
01:09:13mafala
01:09:16ukatili
01:09:18umezidi
01:09:19miradi
01:09:20ni
01:09:20wizifiche
01:09:22kia
01:09:24kukia
01:09:25kukia
01:09:25kukia
01:09:25ahadi
01:09:26ejitwa
01:09:27lenga
01:09:28zingapo
01:09:29ilihari
01:09:31vijana
01:09:32wetu
01:09:33wainama
01:09:35kole
01:09:35chini
01:09:38barabara
01:09:40ndio
01:09:40miradi
01:09:41chakula
01:09:42na
01:09:42afya
01:09:43ngo
01:09:44jamani
01:09:46itabidi
01:09:48tutoke
01:09:49usingizi
01:09:52amkeni
01:09:54wa kenya
01:09:55acheni
01:09:57kulala
01:09:58usichague
01:10:01wakora
01:10:02kuna
01:10:04watu
01:10:05wa safi
01:10:06janu
01:10:08keni
01:10:08mapema
01:10:10tu
01:10:12acheni
01:10:12ufala
01:10:13kenya
01:10:15mpia
01:10:16imefika
01:10:17tuwa
01:10:19fukuze
01:10:20walavi
01:10:22kondo
01:10:24eni
01:10:24macho
01:10:25sasa
01:10:26ndo
01:10:26muone
01:10:27vizuri
01:10:31wawakigonjeka
01:10:32bio
01:10:33sipitaliza
01:10:34nje
01:10:35mpia
01:10:37mpia
01:10:39mpia