- 2 weeks ago
STRAIGHT TALK EP 4 - ARCH SYLVIA KASANGA ON THE STATE OF THE NATION
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00:00Welcome to Straight Talk, where we engage Kenya's brightest minds in the issues facing
00:10our nation. I'm your host, Yvonne Chege. Today we wish to discuss the state of the nation,
00:17most especially issues of social cohesion, democracy, and the economy. And to do that,
00:22we're joined by a person who not only has excelled professionally, but also been nominated
00:28as a senator to the National Assembly, former senator and architect, Madam Sylvia Kasanga.
00:35Thank you for joining us. Thank you for having me. It's quite a portfolio when you think architect
00:42and a member of National Assembly. How did that happen? Oh, wow. In fact, you forgot to add that
00:51I'm also an arbitrator and a mental health champion. I'm actually an award-winning mental health champion.
00:56Yeah. But more importantly, how did I get into Senate? The long and the short you have to
01:03participate with the political parties. That is the avenue to power. And, you know, I like speaking
01:07to young people to explain to them, if you want to get into these spaces of power, the Constitution is
01:12very clear on the avenues that you have to go into. So you find a political party that you identify with
01:19and you put in some time. It's an investment you have to make. Yeah, you have to put in time,
01:24you have to work, you have to support your party by the time you can find yourself having a nomination
01:29therein. So there you go. I got the nomination in 2017 by the WIPA Democratic Movement then,
01:37which has now changed to the WIPA Patriotic Front.
01:39So you mean to say then, prior to your nomination in 2017, you had worked within your community,
01:47within your profession, to ensure your leadership position within the community?
01:54Absolutely. Your party has to feel your presence. So you're supporting them in whichever way.
01:59You can do community. I work a lot with the young people. So a lot of mobilization around the young
02:04people back at home, especially because the WIPA Democratic Movement at that time was most visible.
02:09in the Lower Eastern region. So a lot of projects and a lot of things you do with the young people,
02:14but for the party. That way the party can feel your presence and that you're pushing for the agenda
02:18amongst the people. And that then led to your nomination in 2017. And you served up until 2022.
02:26A very interesting time to be a senator, I can only imagine. It was a very interesting time. It was
02:31challenging. Coming from a professional front, I'm very much a professional. And the community work
02:36I do for me is my CSR. It's what I do for giving back to the community, which I linked then
02:41with my political party. So I'm very much a professional. And I never stopped being in my
02:47office, even when I was in parliament. In fact, I would wake up at my office and I would end my day
02:51at my office. And I went on to do everything that I do professionally, which was good because when the
02:57politics ends, because we keep saying these seats are transient. Yeah, you're not meant to go there
03:02and decide it is yours to keep. Oh, it's not. It's not yours. I think the kind of mentality is that you
03:08can keep it. Yes, that's a problem. These things are transient. You're supposed to go serve and be
03:14ready to exit should the people decide it's your time to go. And you should be appreciative of having
03:18had the opportunity to serve. And a five-year term is a very short term. So when you get that
03:24opportunity to sit in that seat, you don't have time. You have to think clearly, what am I going
03:30to do? What mark am I going to leave? What change am I going to make for the people? And you did have
03:36very instrumental moments within your time in those five years. For one, you are forefront of the
03:43COVID-19 regulations during the period of COVID. Yes, indeed. I haven't even forgotten that.
03:51I think center for me was the mental health campaign, which I'm particularly proud of because
03:56then we passed a law on mental health and the country never had a law since 1989. So to have a
04:02modern mental health law that is completely tuned to the new constitution and the bill of rights and
04:08giving people living with mental illness dignity is one of the things I'm most proud of. And it's now
04:13celebrated on a continental level. Then that would highlight as a highlight of your campaign during
04:20Senate. Not campaign, but period. My period in Senate is marked by the mental health campaign.
04:26COVID was a fantastic opportunity as well. When the country shut down, we were the only committee that
04:31was working at that time. Lots of learning. I can tell you lots of learning in that period.
04:37Interacting with the national government and national response team at that time was fantastic.
04:43and asking tough questions to the then minister and his team. We did a lot of learning and a lot of
04:48impact. But even just to create laws that didn't exist, like COVID was entirely new for the entirety
04:55of the world. Imagine. Yes. Yeah, it was fantastic. And we had a fantastic committee. We worked so well
05:01together. We didn't sleep actually for the period which we were working. There was no sleeping. Thank God for
05:05technology because everything was online. But we're able to make serious, serious ripples within that period of time.
05:12Very proud of my time. But like you say then, your highlight was then your work for mental health.
05:16Absolutely. Yes.
05:17That was the absolute highlight. And to this day, like I said, it is the Act of Parliament,
05:23that is the Mental Health Amendment Act of 2022, is celebrated on a continental level. I'm actually
05:30sought after by the Africa Center of Disease Control to advise other African countries on how to make
05:35legislation for mental health. That is how big that was. Back at home here, there are questions. Let me just say,
05:45we have laws, as always, in Kenya. We have all the beautiful things, but the people are still suffering.
05:51Yeah. Last, this month, October is usually Mental Health Month, and we did celebrate the Mental Health
05:56Week with the government. They had the second Mental Health Conference that was very well attended and very
06:02well mobilized. And we agreed as a country, yes, we have ticked several boxes that many other countries
06:07have long to do. But the fact remains and the statistics show that Kenyans are still suffering.
06:13So why? And this is the issue that as a country, we struggle. We are good at the paperwork. We are good
06:20at the policy. But why is it that the people don't feel the impact of these things? Why is it that Kenyans
06:26don't feel the impact of the investments that we are trying to make? So the question is,
06:30how is our implementation? It always boils down to, are we doing what needs to be done for the people?
06:36Perhaps that's a very interesting reflection about Kenyan society in general. We have a lot of laws in
06:45place, and yet implementation and how those laws operate don't quite translate. A lot of lethargy.
06:52A lot of lethargy towards doing the things that then bring absolute impact to the people.
06:58And for mental health, there is a level of intentionality that is required by an administration
07:07of the day to say that I must have the people that I lead be mentally well, because then they will be
07:17productive. A happy and mentally well person is a highly productive person. When you're not mentally
07:25well, you are not productive. Right now Kenyans are suffering, and the statistics show, yeah, the
07:32suicide rates have never been higher. The anxiety levels have never been higher. Our social media
07:38is abuzz with activities and things that just drive your blood pressure up, no matter who you are.
07:45And I tell you, we were just speaking earlier before we started, you just scroll and you completely lose
07:51focus on what you're doing because something will make you angry. Something will distract you from
07:56what you're trying to do. And by the time you get your focus back, you know, you've lost time,
08:01you've lost money and the opportunity to be more productive. So the question on mental health is
08:07so significant. Today, if any leader decided to run their politics on a promise of mental wellness for
08:15this country, in my view, that would be a winning ticket as it is. Well, mental well-being comes along
08:22with financial well-being. There's many factors that come with that. Yes. And for all of that to
08:31come into place, perhaps we discuss how the Kenyan government system is, we said, for one, we're not
08:38really looking after our mental health. What are the weaknesses do you feel exist within our Kenyan
08:43government system? Yeah, there you go. You know, one of the major social determinants,
08:48like you said, of mental health is your finances, the economy of the state. You know, because as long
08:54as you have no money, it's very difficult to concentrate on anything or be happy because we live in a society,
09:00globally, a society that money is at the center of how we live. And how do you dissociate yourself
09:07with the amount of money in your pocket is something that everyone needs some significant
09:12training on? And not even that, let me tell you, the youth have been told all you need is to go to
09:18school, get a degree. Yeah. And once you get a degree, there's no job. Yes. So what happens after
09:25that? And then mental health comes into place. If you can't pay your bills, if you can't support
09:30yourself, if you have people who have medical needs back at home, that then lends to where mental health
09:38creeps in, especially amongst the youth. Yes. Yes. So why I emphasize on mental health is so that we can
09:44look at everything now backwards. What do we need to do so that the Kenyans can have happy or well,
09:53can be well mentally? Of course, the economy is the first thing. We are struggling with the economy.
09:58For the last, what, 10 to 15 years, this country has been struggling with an economy. In fact,
10:03if you ask Kenyans, the last time we felt the economy being, you know, good, such that everyone was
10:09busy focused on their jobs was 2000 to 2007, that first time. And a little bit after, of course,
10:17the skirmishes of 2007, once the country settled down, then you could have said there was a little
10:23bit right in there up to 2013. But from 2013 onwards till today, it almost feels like we've been on a
10:30downward trajectory when it comes to economy. What do you think then the government should
10:35do to address youth unemployment? It all boils down again to, what are our economic policies?
10:41Because they're supposed to be enabling to the point that they are creating jobs. It's shocking,
10:46honestly, that we have enough economists in this country. I always say Kenya celebrates
10:51the best human resource in Africa. You can say that openly, you can say Kenyan's human resource,
10:55the best in Africa. We export Kenyans globally. I mean, I have spoken in so many countries,
11:02in so many forums and everywhere I go. I'll always find a Kenyan who is high level doing something
11:08amazing. And they always say Kenyans are so hard working. They are always so attentive to detail.
11:13Exactly. There's never a bad criticism against Kenyans. When it comes to human resource,
11:18Kenyans, we are on point. But why is it here at home? We can't do that. There's a disconnect. We can't
11:25sort out our economic issues. Why is it that we struggle with creating jobs, yet some of these
11:34things are tried, tested. You have enough experts around this. What is it? Why is it that we are not
11:42creating industries? We know how to expand economies. It's creating industries. How do you create industries?
11:48Enabling environments. Drop the cost of production. Drop the cost of power. Drop this. But we are not doing
11:54any of that. If anything, the government of the day is doing the opposite. We are paying more for fuel.
12:00We are paying more for electricity. So industries then can never grow. Then there are no jobs. So our
12:05youth are sitting there. But also over taxation. There's over taxation. The other day I told a taxman,
12:12these days they call you. You know they call you. You delay posting your pay as you want.
12:17One, by one day, they call you. Because they have sent you four emails to remind you. Yes. Then when
12:25you don't pay on time, they call you. So this guy calls me and says, you've not yet paid you. I said,
12:30okay, but there was a public holiday and another public holiday. When was I supposed to pay? Now
12:35is when I'm in the office. Oh yes, I understand, but you're supposed to pay. I said to him,
12:38you're not going to close this business because I'm feeling harassed right now. So for you then,
12:43Yeah. It's to encourage government to have more policies that strengthen the environment to do
12:52business. Like you say, reduce the cost of power. It has to be. Yes. If we are going to expand the
12:57space for young people to get work, we have to drop the cost of production. We have to encourage
13:02manufacturing. We have to encourage startups. The young people are very good at starting up
13:07businesses, technology, and things like that. We have to create an environment where they can do
13:12their startups. It has to be intentional. It's an intentionality that somebody somewhere in a high
13:18office is concerned about the mental wellness of his people. So he has to create an enabling
13:23environment such that people can afford the basic things in life. Same thing goes to healthcare.
13:30Why are we struggling with a universal healthcare system? Why? We are Kenyans. We are educated. We
13:36are learned. We have some of the best brains in the world. Why are we struggling with universal
13:42healthcare? Why is there start, stop, change laws, new laws, whatnot? Why can't we just provide
13:50health for the people? Perhaps then the easy answer would be corruption. Yes. Obviously. We have
13:57a deep rooted problem with corruption. Yes. How do we tackle that? Because it's a promise we've been
14:06made. It's a song we have sang over and over and over again. And yet somehow the menace exists with us
14:12to this day. What would you do if you were in government? You know, sometimes, and I like when we,
14:18I think you'll hear leaders say, Lee Kuan Yeun transformed Singapore. You know, we've seen China become a technology powerhouse in our generation.
14:31Yes. Imagine a country of how many billions of people transforming within our time, you know,
14:39within a generation to unbelievable, you know, heights. And yes, prosperity for all their people.
14:46Imagine. Not just for the top. Not just for the top. Yes. They're pulling everybody up, you know.
14:51Then you know anything is possible if there's intentionality. My view about our Kenyan leadership
14:59is that they're not intentional in pulling up Kenyans. It has been about personal benefits.
15:06Neocolonialism at work. Only. That is the problem with our leadership. And unfortunately for us Kenyans,
15:13we have some of these habits that have creeped down to every level. Sometimes I keep saying,
15:19don't even point at your leaders. Because who you are electing is completely the reflection of who
15:25you are as a people. All right. This leader has not served me in five years. Why are we putting
15:31him in office again the next five years? You know, those sort of questions. But also,
15:36we also envision ourselves in that position. You know, I think that's why I say neocolonialism,
15:41because we want to lead without pulling our people up by the bootstraps as well. Yes.
15:47Yes. We have these challenges. Yes. Maybe one day, or hopefully in the slightly near future,
15:54we have a leader who gets to the top and decides, you know what? Only for the people. And he's no
16:01nonsense. He's not joking. And he says, only for the people. And he cracks the whip to that extent,
16:10refuses to compromise all our institutions. Because that's the other thing. Because these
16:17leaders we have currently in power, because they're doing things for themselves, they compromise the
16:23systems by the whole parliament, so that then you can pass whatever laws that you want.
16:28Okay. DCI, you put in your friends. So you'll only charge the cases that you want to charge,
16:35right? Let's look at all our institutions, yeah? It's a compromise of the entire system. It's a compromise
16:39of the entirety of the system. And you see, when the system is not working, then obviously nothing,
16:44nothing is working. You can have the best laws, you can have everything good, but then it is not
16:47working for the people. What happens if we one time left the system to work? I know it sounds,
16:55what's the word? It sounds... Idealistic. Idealistic, yes. I know it sounds absolutely idealistic.
17:03Yeah. But what if we just let it happen? They say that Kenya has the most progressive
17:09constitution, the best constitution in the world. Yeah, that's what everyone says.
17:13So you're basically saying, what if we just let it operate as it envisioned? Yeah. And we just make sure
17:20the auditor general we put in there is qualified doing their work and we give them their money.
17:28In fact, we make sure the auditor general office is very well resourced because under the constitution,
17:34the attorney general, I mean, sorry, the auditor general's office is supposed to do quite a lot of
17:38work. Yeah. Actually, that docket is busy. It's a busy docket. And I remember when I was in parliament,
17:43you would call her to give you audits. I remember when we were doing COVID, give us the COVID reports on how
17:48counties have used their COVID monies and she'll say, oh my goodness, we are so under resourced.
17:52We will need like a month and a half. And you're like, we don't have a month and a half.
17:56I need this in like, you know, everything was unfolding so quickly. She says, I'll have to pull
18:00out resources from here to bring here so that we can... These are the offices that need to be very
18:06well resourced because they are the custodians for Kenyans on looking at how money is being spent.
18:13Public money is being spent. You need those audits and you need those reports.
18:17Imagine if we had a parliament that was not compromised, a national parliament that did not
18:22have CDF. This thing called CDF is finishing our national assembly. It's unconstitutional.
18:28It does not matter what we do. Even if we go and do a referendum and bring it back,
18:32it will be the wrong thing because under our constitution, the parliamentarians at national
18:37assembly are supposed to be oversighting the national government. And they're supposed to be making laws
18:43and, you know, and doing their parliamentary work, not oversighting money that is going to projects.
18:50That is the work of the county government.
18:52So from what I'm hearing, there is the constitution envisions
18:59the executive, the judiciary and the legislature as very separate institutions.
19:04Absolutely.
19:05And yet, somehow, currently, the system is operating in a manner that
19:12blurs.
19:13Mishmash.
19:13Yes.
19:15That separation.
19:16That lack of separation is one of the things that is ailing our country.
19:21It is really unfortunate. When you see parliamentarians being
19:24cursed and going into state house, I don't know to do what.
19:27Which other serious government does that?
19:30That's an intentional meddling.
19:33Kuchochea.
19:34Yeah.
19:35Yeah.
19:35Meddling.
19:36Yes.
19:36What if our parliament was not interfered?
19:39Imagine that.
19:40And, you know, there's a time in this country, during Moe's time, when parliamentarians...
19:46Okay.
19:47Allow me to say this.
19:48When they had balls and guts and that authoritarian president, they didn't fear.
19:53Because, of course, in parliament, you have... you've been given the privilege to speak as a
19:59parliamentarian freely. And you would hear the parliamentarians, then, when there were Rangos
20:03and the Railas were in parliament that time, and there were firebrands, and they would speak and
20:08fight, you know, for Kenyans. Where are those parliamentarians today? They're just busy doing
20:14their CDF business. That's why there's usually no quorum in parliament. In fact, our parliament is a
20:18shame. Quorum is a problem because they're out there doing their things. What if our parliament
20:25just did what it was meant to do? What if our county assembly just did what they're meant to do?
20:32I think we would enjoy the fruits of our new constitution, which we have never enjoyed it in
20:40full. We've never really felt the fullness of our new constitution.
20:44We only feel bits and pieces. To actualize the constitution as envisioned.
20:50Yeah. So even when sometimes we are saying, oh, we need to amend this, we need to amend this.
20:54We are trying to amend something that you have not even fully operationalized to get the full
21:00feeling of it and then say, okay, indeed, we need to change this and this. And so I have a problem with
21:06that. And I believe that is the challenge we have in our governance system. As long as the three arms of
21:12government are not operating clearly, maybe the only constitutional change I would say we need on an
21:18urgent basis is removing the treasury from national government and giving it an independent office of
21:27its own so that the president is not always in the, his hand is in the cookie jar, you know, because
21:32he has appointed the treasury minister. Yes. There's some independence that is needed around
21:39where. But again, like you said, it's about intentionality. It's about a person with bad
21:45intention can always meddle the system to work in the way in which we do his favor. Yes. And that's what
21:51we're really seeing at the moment. Along those lines, we saw, or we've been seeing some tragic events
22:00within Kenya and also East Africa as well, abductions, suppression of protests, live ammunition
22:08fired at protesters. What, what are your thoughts about this current trend? Yes. What an unfortunate
22:16trend in East Africa right now. It's like the three presidents have sat down and decided, you know
22:20what, this is what we are going to do here in East Africa. It's terrible. What a retrogression of
22:25progress that, uh, we should see this happening. And, and that falls in line with the constitution as
22:31well. Yeah. Enforcing what was envisioned in the constitution, freedom to assembly, freedom to protest.
22:37We have our bill of rights. You know, we have one of the most comprehensive bill of
22:40rights globally. So to see a claw back on some of these, um, rights and freedoms is a real travesty.
22:48And actually Kenyans should be, should be very wary of such scenarios where we are seeing
22:53dictatorial and authoritarian systems wanting to, you know, to creep back into, into our societies.
22:59And we should never, honestly, we should never allow for that. These are the times when I say,
23:04uh, if it means we stop everything we are doing and just fight to make sure these things don't
23:09happen. This is the time. But if our leaders don't fight for us, yes, those who we elect to put in
23:16place these fights and these, uh, protections for the general public, if they're not fighting for us,
23:21what are we supposed to do about that? We're supposed to elect the right people. You see,
23:25this is a thing with us. It's, it's like, uh, it's a cycle. It's a cycle. Yes. It's a cycle.
23:31When you elect the people who are not really working for you, you've been hoodwinked by the stories of
23:35somebody on a podium. He comes in hoodwinks you and tells you nice stories. They get into
23:40parliament or into, into a high office and immediately that the truth reveals that they're
23:46not doing what they're supposed to be doing. Okay. We have mechanisms. Okay. Our recall mechanisms,
23:50you know, have never been, you know, finalized or fulfilled. You know, there's always that. Yeah.
23:56But the ballot is also coming next time. And the thing, the thing with Kenyans is this.
24:01Yeah. When IBC, for instance, uh, made the call that now people can go and register
24:08and pick their voters cards. Yeah. Right. I'm surprised with the numbers that we are getting
24:14on a weekly basis. It's so low. You know, we have a target of about eight million young
24:20new voters and those who didn't, you know, participate in the last election. And we're hoping
24:25that they can come and pick their, their voters card, so that we have an extra eight million people
24:30of a demographic that is demanding change. We saw them demanding change. In fact, for us,
24:36the older generation, you know, we watched with awe because they are brave. They are bold. They
24:41came out and said, no, enough of this, no finance bill nonsense. They have taught themselves. They've
24:46done civic education in the social media platforms, things that the country stopped doing a long time
24:51ago. They have done it and they've come out and they've said, no, we are not going to have this,
24:56this, whether they were arranged or not arranged, all those, you know, there's all stories that are
25:01around what happened with the Gen Z revolution. The fact remains the revolution happened and it was
25:07for the people. It was a revolution that was fighting for the people because our people
25:12representatives have failed to do so. Yes. I fully agree with that. The issue then with Gen Zs is they're
25:18like, well, as much as we're told to go out and get our voters card and line up and vote, the ballot
25:26really doesn't reflect what happens on the ground. Somebody tells you one thing five years and it
25:33completely disappears the second this person comes into parliament. So what's my, or into legislative
25:39office, what's the motivation behind taking your voters card and lining up to vote, whether it takes you
25:47five hours or 10 hours, what do you? Motivation is, do we want a country or do we not want a country?
25:53You know, the fact remains the constitution, this is the avenue the constitution has given towards
25:59our leadership and our governance. And there's nothing we can do about that. We cannot change that.
26:04We have to take the vote, we have to elect people to get into office to run our country. So therefore,
26:10we have no choice. If it means every five years, we have a new administration, so be it. And that's
26:17how it should be. Actually, it should be such that every five years, remove everybody. What's wrong with
26:23that? One time, everyone, one time, one time, one time, until the right leaders come, because this is
26:29the only way. There's no any other way we can govern our country unless we have a new constitution.
26:34I like that. A belief in the system. Our constitution has put in place a particular system. Exactly.
26:40And we follow what the system says. We just follow the system, we follow it to the letter. And there's
26:45nothing wrong with having one time, one time, one time, one time, until the day we have leaders who are
26:51representing us as Kenyans. But, you know, we need to remember that it is the only avenue towards
27:01governance. It's through the vote. There's no any other avenue. Because this is what our constitution
27:06prescribes. So we must take that vote. We must go out and vote. You know, there's no two way. If we
27:14want a country for ourselves, that is the only avenue. My encouragement is that let's keep doing it
27:20every year until we find the right people. Okay. It's a great ideal. And I really do believe that.
27:28However, our leaders, our political leaders have found a way to manipulate that using tribal and ethnic
27:38lines as a way to control, you know, a voting bloc. Yeah. And that is, has been a very effective
27:49methodology in Kenyan politics. Yes. How do we evolve past that? Because I know,
27:53Gen Z's say, oh, tribeless, leaderless. But on year five, somehow, our ethnicity and our tribe
28:01always come into the way we vote. It plays out. How do we fight that? It plays out. I think,
28:07again, as you notice from my conversations, I'm a very optimistic person. I'm usually very optimistic
28:13because I believe in our nation. I believe in our people. Now, one thing that is going to change
28:18significantly going forward is the fact that we have social media. You remember the governor who
28:24spoke, Governor Motahi? Remember Governor Motahi who spoke and he had to step down from being vice
28:30chair of the COG? Because he spoke in confidence with his people, to his people in their language,
28:37thinking that the world is not seen, thinking that Kenyans cannot hear. Because that's probably how he's
28:42used to mobilizing is by speaking to his people about them only. And, you know, you'll remember what
28:50the governor said. But shock unto him that the video was played and circular in Kenya, within three
28:58hours, a TikTok has done a full round in Kenya. Within three hours, it has done a full round. It has been
29:05translated. It has gone round. And everyone has said, what nonsense is this? You know, besides the
29:13insensitivity, that rallying of a community, he was called out for that. These are the things that will
29:20change our nation. And thank God, again, for how well connected Kenyans we are. These are the things
29:25that will change how politics is going to unfold going forward. To call out our leaders when...
29:30Yes, the tribal thing. When they're using the tribal card. Because that is not the direction the
29:34country needs to go. Fine. I do understand a lot of us Kenyans. And this is a debate we were having
29:40in a different forum the other day. If I've grown in Katonzweni, in Makweni, and have never traveled out.
29:49You know, I've never traveled out. So the only thing I know is Katonzweni, Makweni, and my local leaders.
29:56Yeah. My politics is local. It is... politics is local. And it must start local. It is.
30:02So which means then, in that case, His Excellency Kalonzo Musioka is probably the only
30:07leader I can speak to, that I know of. Yeah? And because he comes from my local setting.
30:14Yes. All right? And for Kalonzo to get
30:18a meaningful piece of the pie at the national table, he has to come home and say, hey, you guys.
30:26See, I'm going to... for you up there. He needs to show that he has some sort of power.
30:31of my base. Yes. And unfortunately, my base is an ethnic base.
30:36Yes. You see, that's where now our politics gets muddled. Yes.
30:41But I want to assure you that even that is going to be dismantled within the next two elections.
30:46The passing of Baba, and may his soul rest in peace, was truly the end of an era. Baba was one of the few
30:56people who could probably command a constituency beyond Nyansa, Mombasa, whatever. You know,
31:02even Ukambani, we used to vote for him because the ideals of ODM and WIPA would align.
31:07We were very aligned, yes.
31:07Yeah. So we would happily, you know, fight and vote with Baba. You know, that sort of a thing. He's
31:13probably the only one who could do that. A unifying factor across many regions.
31:18Huge. Baba is the only one who could come out and tell Kenyans, cool down, calm down. It doesn't
31:24matter what has happened. Let's be forgiving. The nation is bigger than anybody. Everyone cool down.
31:30Let's go back to work. And we would go back to work. We would be in pain. We would be angry.
31:36But we would go back to work. We would sometimes even hate him for it. You know, sometimes we'd be
31:41angry. He has gone and done a handshake. Oh, we'd get angry. And then, you know, all the conspiracy
31:46theories will go around. But the fact remained that for him, the nation was always bigger. So then we all
31:53cool down and we go back to work and we are at peace. Always tintering on the brink of what could
31:59have been the worst. But Baba brings us back. And I consider that end of an era. The days of
32:07kingpings is coming to an end, in my view. It's actually an era going to an end. We are going to
32:14come to a time in politics where you speak to the people, you tell them what you offer the people,
32:20and the people give you the mandate. No more kingpin who says, it is this one, it is this one,
32:26it is this one. That era, in my view, is coming to an end. In fact, in the next two elective cycles,
32:32I believe that is coming to an end. Nobody can replace Baba's shoes.
32:38Our party leader, SKM Kalonzo Musioka, is the only one who can galvanize Ukambani the way it is today.
32:46Yeah. When he becomes president and he's done with his term, I want to assure you there will not be
32:50another Ukamba coming up to say, I'm the kingpin of Ukambani, it's never going to happen.
32:56So that era is quickly coming to an end. You speak very well, having served up until 2022, perhaps you
33:03have aspirations coming up in the next general election. You know, this next election is a critical
33:13election. If you're not relevant in this one, it's okay. Go back to what you're doing. Support from
33:20the sidelines. And we always need the people who can also support from the sidelines. But I want to
33:24be part of this transformation of the country that is inevitable. I want to be part of that
33:30transformation. And this is the time. I've always been scared to get into elective politics. Yes,
33:37it has taken me a long time to internalize that I'm going to go for an elective post. It's never easy
33:44for women. That fact is there. But we have to do it. You know, we can't also be scared. I'm going in
33:52faith that Kenyans are ready for serious leadership. I'm going in because I feel Kenyans now no longer want
34:00stories and dancing on the podium. They want action. They want people who can bring meaningful
34:07transformation and change. That is what I'm going with. I cannot dance on the podium. I cannot wiggle
34:13my bum on the podium. That I'm not going to do. I cannot go to the podium and hurl insults at my
34:19competitor. That I cannot do. I'll go and tell the Kenyans, this is what I can do for you. And I want
34:25to do it. If they don't give me the seat, then they're not ready. And I'll say, fine. I'll go back
34:31to my profession. That's a very good attitude towards it. I'll just go back to my profession.
34:35Like, let's take this job a little more seriously, right? My ability to dance on stage doesn't
34:46necessarily qualify me for an elective post. It doesn't. And this is what I'm hoping Kenyans are
34:51beginning to learn. That just because I come, I'm a firebrand and I hurl insults at, at everyone
34:57who's my competitor, does not mean that I will do for you good representation. I hope Kenyans are
35:03learning that. If they're not learning that, then war on to them. Because we'll still be in this
35:07unfortunate vicious cycle. Or they deserve, or we deserve what we get. Absolutely. Yes. I'll present myself as
35:13who I am. The professional who I am. The fact that I have been to a seat of power and I have,
35:21you know, I have really represented the people and done some significant transformation. And that
35:27that is what I will do for them. And if it's not enough for them, then it is fine. I have my
35:33profession. I'll go back to my office, you know, and I'll be grateful that at least I can look back and
35:39say, I tried. As opposed to me sitting in my office thinking maybe I should try, maybe I
35:43shouldn't try, maybe. No. I will have the satisfaction that I gave it my shot that people
35:48said no. So let me resume my work. And all is well. And then I can continue. If you were elected,
35:57what vision would you put in place for Kenya in the next 20 years? What would you aspire to?
36:02Oh, just let's implement the constitution as it is. Let us respect the constitution. You know,
36:08until we get to see what the fullness of the vision of the constitution is, we cannot say we
36:14have even begun to enjoy its fruits as such. Let's just work towards that first. And I'm hoping
36:21whoever is the next president can just, you know, respect that constitution as it is and let it work in
36:30its fullness so that we can begin to see that fullness of it. Because all the vices we talk
36:35about, corruption, whatnot, whatnot, everything is addressed in our constitution. It's just the
36:40intentionality of rolling out that constitution that is lacking because people are doing things
36:45for themselves. Everything is addressed in that constitution. Let me tell you, Kenyans have
36:51addressed everything. All the issues we complain about are very well addressed in the constitution.
36:56But because of interference, chronism,
37:01uh, stomach fasts, attitudes, we interfere everywhere, you interfere everywhere, you interfere
37:06everywhere. And you're saying then to fix this, yes, the cure is with the Kenyan voter, the individual
37:13Kenyan voter. Your vote. That's it. That's it. There's no any other venue, unfortunately.
37:17Unfortunately or unfortunately, we hold the power. I think we just don't understand that power.
37:25Yes. We don't realize how powerful we are. That's what, that is what the issue is. We don't realize
37:32that every five years you can have a new administration from top to bottom to the village
37:39level. You can have a new administration every five years until you have an administration that
37:44is respectful of the constitution. That works for you. Period. And if they don't, you change them again.
37:48Toa, toa, toa. That is, that is it. And that's why a five-year term is good. In fact, a four-year term
37:54probably would have been better. The ones who try to imagine we should have a seven-year term are crazy.
38:00Even four years is adequate to demonstrate that you're doing things for people. Because it's such
38:06a short period of time. I think one of the biggest problems I've seen with some of these offices,
38:11and I've seen it with also a lot of governors, you want to get into office to do 20 things. You only have
38:17a five-year term. You don't have time to do 20 things. You can pick an area of transformation
38:26and run with it. And support some of the programs of your predecessor. This is a big problem I've seen.
38:31Many times, a new administration comes and completely disregards the previous
38:36good things that were happening. So you start fresh new things and you leave things pending.
38:41Part of the reason you see a lot of pending bills, those are the challenges.
38:44Or abandon the old projects and do new things. Start new things. Of course, you have to get money
38:50for your cronies. Those are the challenges. And if we move that mentality, we need to get out
38:58of that mentality and realize that a five-year term is a short term. You can't do 20 things.
39:04Take what is working for the people. Why change it? If it's working, support it. Then find your
39:11transformation agenda. One, two, three things of impact you can produce in five years' time.
39:18Make that impact. Enough for people to say, okay, fine, we'll give you another five-year term.
39:22It's a root. It's a root of personality politics. You want to come in and make an impact right away.
39:28You also want to discredit your predecessor as well.
39:33Yeah. And it doesn't take discrediting. I'll give you an example. If I'm a governor, I've come in and
39:40the previous governor had, say, rolled out universal healthcare that was working. And maybe he called it
39:46his name. You know? Like now, Muranga has Kangata Care. And somebody else comes in, okay, I don't
39:53like Kangata. But does it mean you have to stop Kangata Care? Maybe you can change its name if
39:58that's the issue. Name it after yourself. Name it after yourself. But keep the program going.
40:03Keep the program going because it's already working for the people. And because it's working, your work
40:08is to just make sure the finances are reinforced to keep that project running. You, you find yourself now,
40:14a project for yourself now that you can name yourself. If the issue is about naming yourself,
40:19which I don't understand why we have, we have this thing. I have to name myself. I don't understand.
40:24You should wait for people to name you because you have made such impact, you know, for them.
40:29They will name you if you've done well. Yes. But anyway, run with a project or two or three of
40:37impact while supporting what is already working. But we have this problem where every new government
40:41that comes in at the county level, you want to stop everything that was happening before.
40:46All the projects that were running, yes, because they were that governor's friends who are doing
40:50the projects, nini, so you stop everything and then you start new ones. It's a very defeatist attitude
40:55which we need to grow out of. And remember that everything that you stop is affecting the same Kenyan
41:01whose vote you want, whose lifestyle you have affected. Every project that is told, every money is not
41:06paid to a contractor. A contractor has an ecosystem around him, which is now obviously affected.
41:12This is where the mental health issues now start kicking in. So an intentional leader will come and
41:17say, okay, fine. This micro environment is already going on. It's working. I don't need to affect it.
41:25Let it at least finish its process for the benefit of the people. All right. Let it finish its process.
41:31Then you can start some other projects that are now also beneficial to the people. So I think it's
41:38about intentionality. I keep saying it's about being intentional that you want to, you want the
41:43goodness of the people. You want to, you're there for the people. So you will not make decisions that
41:49affect the wellness of the people at any one time, regardless of who was there before.
41:54To remember your mandate. Because nobody, I don't think anyone gets into politics. It's hard enough.
42:01It is tough. To campaign, you know, but you really get into it with the intention of trying to change
42:08people's lives and the people that you know in your immediate environment, you know.
42:12Yeah. I think as we begin to wrap up, perhaps tell us, what has you being a professional architect,
42:21how will you bring that in to your career now, your blossoming career in politics?
42:28Oh my goodness. Let me tell you one thing I forgot to mention. One of the conversations that I'm having
42:34in the professional space is reminding the professionals that they too must play politics. Architecture is
42:41politics. When I say that first, I get a stare and I say, yeah, I'm wondering what, what, what do you
42:48mean? Please expound. Architecture is politics. Yeah. When we're celebrating Katiba at 15, I wrote a piece,
42:57which I shared. I wrote a piece that if the Katiba had a physical form,
43:04not the book. If the Katiba had a general physical form, it would be the cities and the towns that we
43:12live in. It would be the physical buildings, the infrastructure that we exist, that exists within us,
43:19that helps us with our everyday life. The fact that our city, start with Nairobi here, is in chaos,
43:28planning chaos, building chaos, drainage chaos, lack of infrastructure, lack of expansion, no plan.
43:37Yeah. We are, City Hall is approving buildings without plans.
43:40Development development, yes. In itself, is a desecration of the constitution. Because the
43:47constitution is very clear on the mandate of physical planning and the rights that the people have to
43:54housing, healthy water, infrastructure, amongst other things, which our country is not providing.
44:02Now, architects are the center of that physical space. Absolutely. So that's why I say architecture is
44:09politics. And when we sit in our offices and in our little bubbles, imagining that politics should be
44:15done by other people, I ask them, who are these other people who should do these politics?
44:20Who should be at City Hall right now? Who should be running City Hall right now, if not an architect,
44:24who understands the importance of urban planning, the importance of a house that has ventilation,
44:30that gets morning sun, that has a ground where your child can play, that looks into your mental
44:36wellness and your psychology? Have you seen the houses in Pipeline?
44:39Your sewer system, your road systems, all of that. It builds to your mental wellness, and it is part of
44:45the constitution. It's a constitutional mandate. So I ask them, who is supposed to be running Nairobi County
44:53today, if not a professional who understands what needs to be done?
44:56Especially when talking about planning and development of the city.
44:59In fact, any city. And that is not just Nairobi. A city is about planning. Everything about a city
45:07is about planning, which takes professionals. So I ask them, who is this person who's supposed to
45:12come and run a city, if not a professional? And this is where we are making a mistake as professionals,
45:17of imagining that you'll sit here, someone else, and wait for some guy, random, to come and run for
45:24you, the city, and you'll be satisfied. Or you'll be appointed to do the work without having
45:30to run for the positions. There you go. So our professionals must engage in politics.
45:37It's a conversation, it's creeping in very nicely. A lot of the professionals are beginning to
45:41understand that. I can tell you, for instance, the doctors have understood. Right now the doctors,
45:46our doctors have suffered in this country, honestly. That doctors, they've done mandamano
45:51for the longest. I feel so sorry for our doctors and something really needs to give. Some solution
45:57is to come around the doctors. But I'll tell you now, doctors will be telling you that they have
46:01to run for office because they realize the importance of being in the policy making space.
46:05You cannot leave it for other people. But also again, there's also a requirement then that those
46:11we put into place hire or appoint people in positions in which they are qualified for. Correct. Yes.
46:19Not just political appointments, but if somebody is in charge of health, you should have ideally
46:28a knowledge in health. If it's planning, you should have an engineering background or some sort that
46:34relates to what it is that you're doing. It is so frustrating right now for professionals
46:40to sit back and just watch the governments, the various governments at both levels,
46:45rolling out whatever they're rolling out, disregarding the space of the professional.
46:49And the money exists. It is terrible. The money is spent. There's enough money.
46:52And there's no actualization of the ideas. Yeah, this country has enough money. Too much in fact. Yeah.
46:59We have watched the affordable housing program, which is a pet project of this government, roll out
47:03with very little minimal input of the professional. In fact, the professional is relegated to a corner
47:09there. We beg for audience. It's the worst thing. You cannot run a country like that. So the word is,
47:16since they don't realize and they don't want to appreciate the space of the professional,
47:20can the professional then be the one to be in that policy space? Enough of writing memorandum,
47:26because that's all we do. From the professional associations, the most you can do is write memorandum,
47:30go to parliament, present your memorandum, hope that it will be taken seriously because you're a
47:35professional and a key stakeholder. So, but what if they don't take it seriously? Because they think
47:39you're professionals, I don't know how, there's an impression of professionals, whatever. We have to
47:45run for those offices. We have to be in the policy making space ourselves. Enough of writing memorandum,
47:51enough of doing mandamano. Roll up your sleeves, professionals. Let's get into the mud. That space
47:57cannot be left for others. I love that. I really do. Actually, as we do wrap up, if I was going to ask
48:05you what message you would leave with those who are watching Straight Talk, I think the first one would be,
48:10we have to be the ones to run for elective office, however challenging that might be. What else would
48:19you advise those out there? Vote, vote, vote. Get your voters card and never get tired of voting. We
48:26cannot get tired of voting and we cannot give up. We, this is our nation. This is our country. I can't
48:31imagine my children having to grow up in a foreign country because I'm scared of them being in this
48:35country. No, we have a great nation. The nation that is the Kenyan people. Remember, the people
48:40make the nation. The Kenyan people, we are a great people. When I am out there abroad, I mean, Kenya is
48:49trending. We trend over so many things. We trend at, you know, professionalism. In arbitration circles,
48:58where I am very active, we are trending everywhere. You go to Paris, Hamburg, Kenyan's trending.
49:04Kenyan's doing very well. Ixid and others. You go to Africa, like right now we are doing mental
49:08health campaigns across Africa. Sierra Leone, West Africa. Kenyans, we are an amazing people.
49:17We should not be unhappy in our own home ground. And it is us who have the power. And we must assume
49:24that power through the vote. So my message is, let's not get tired. Let us vote. And let's always be
49:32looking out for the right leaders. Vote. If it means one time for the next 20 years, one time,
49:39one time, one time, one time, one time, until we get the right person. That's my message.
49:44I love that. A rallying call to Kenyans out there, not just to know how wonderful of a constitution we
49:54have, but just to believe in the system by exercising your vote, regardless of how hopeless
50:03you feel. Yes. Simply just do that one act as a Kenyan. Yes.
50:07Thank you. Thank you, Sylvia. Sylvia, excuse me, Kasanga, for joining us for this discussion. It's
50:14been wonderful to get to know you. Thank you. I look forward to seeing where we shall be voting
50:20for you and in what position. We'll keep talking. Yes, please. Yeah, we'll keep talking. Thank you so
50:25much for having me. Thank you for watching Straight Talk. I'm your host, Yvonne Chege. Do tune in again.
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