- 6 weeks ago
EPISODE 2 FORMER SPEAKER FRANCIS OLE KAPARO-REMEMBERING RAILA ODINGA
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00:00Thank you very much.
00:30Welcome to Straight Talk. I'm your host, Yvonne Chege. Today, we wish to celebrate the life of the late Right Honourable Raila Amolo Odinga, who passed away on the 15th of October, 2025.
00:58We will remember him as a patriot, a colleague, a friend to many, alongside his relentless pursuit towards democracy, his pursuit towards a better Kenya, a better Africa.
01:15Truly, Africa and Kenya has lost a leader, a tremendous leader in our society.
01:22And in order to discuss that and to celebrate his life, we are honoured to be joined by Honourable Francis Olekaparo.
01:32Thank you so much for joining us.
01:34He was a member of parliament from 1988.
01:39The speaker for National Assembly as well, up until 2005, was it?
01:442008.
01:462008, thank you.
01:48And generally, we can call him a politician, a patriot, generally somebody who has also interacted with the late Raila Amolo Odinga throughout your political career.
02:02And I thank you for joining us, perhaps I might ask you firstly, tell us, do you remember your early interaction, your first interaction with Raila Amolo Odinga?
02:14Well, first of all, of course, it is sad that Kenya will not have Raila Amolo Odinga.
02:27It's very sad.
02:29It may not be real for many people right now, but it will dawn on us sooner than later that indeed we have lost somebody.
02:43Do you remember?
02:44We cannot replace.
02:47I remember, you know, Raila, of course, first time I heard about him was when I was a young lawyer.
02:57And that was the time there was an attempted coup in Kenya.
03:04And I think he was arrested and detained.
03:07And some of our colleagues tried to get him out of detention.
03:17And therefore, when I came to Parliament and became the Speaker the first time in 1993, January 1993, that was also the first time he came to Parliament.
03:32And he came to Parliament with his father, his father, his father made a return to Parliament at that time.
03:46So I was privileged as a young speaker to have.
03:50Interacted with both his father and Raila.
03:54Yeah, and it was actually his father, Jaromogi, who, together with the late George Saitoti, who was then the Vice President,
04:06the two of them escorted me to take the first oath of office in January 23rd, 1993.
04:15What struck you most about him when you first met?
04:18Well, you know, he was a person who had a lot of energy.
04:27And a lot of times he appeared quite unsettled.
04:35Quite somebody you could see wanted to do too many things at the same time.
04:46Hungry for a better Kenya, and that transitioned into multi-party, the conflict for multi-party democracy.
04:53Well, multi-party, the fight for multi-party democracy preceded my being Speaker.
05:04I was then Minister for Industry, no Assistant Minister for Labour, when he had the conference in Kasarani to decide whether or not Kenya should become a multi-party state.
05:22And consequently, the repeal of Section 2A of the Constitution, and if you went through the annals of your history,
05:32go back to November 5th, 1991, and you'll find that on the 4th of November, 1991,
05:47everybody who spoke that day, said we should not open up the country for multi-party democracy.
05:57Everybody, literally, everybody on the 4th.
06:01And it's a good thing because you can go back and have a look at what was recorded by KBC then.
06:10I believe maybe KTN was there.
06:13And Ryla stood with everyone on that day?
06:15No, he wasn't there.
06:16No, he wasn't there.
06:16He wasn't a member of KAM, but I was.
06:19Yes.
06:20And I was the only one who spoke for the repeal of Section 2A on the 5th of January.
06:30And it was like committing treason.
06:36It was hell for me for the balance of the day.
06:39But anyway, the long and short of it is that, consequent, after an adjournment, after I spoke on the 5th of November,
06:51President Moe returned and announced that, indeed, we should repeal Section 2A.
07:01And as members of Parliament, we repealed the Constitution.
07:07And therefore, we went to the first multi-party election of a free Kenya in 1992.
07:21And it is through December 1992.
07:23And it is through that election that Ryla Amolo Odinga was elected member of Parliament for Langata, replacing Mr. Philip Liki,
07:38who was then the member for Langata, and assistant minister for Natural Resources.
07:44His father was also elected member of Parliament for Wondo.
07:48And therefore, when I became a speaker for the first time, I had the privilege of presiding a house where Ryla and his father were members.
08:02It must have been very combative and also very engaging, as well, to be able to,
08:31to interact with someone so passionate about his cause.
08:36Yes, but he wasn't alone.
08:38There were so many.
08:41At that time, we had so many very vibrant political leaders.
08:49Very many.
08:50I think we truly would love to go back to that time.
08:58You will never have, in the same house, people like Martin Shikoku, Railo Odinga, his father, Professor Nyangnyu,
09:11and a variety of others, all the people who were called the Young Turks, Kenneth Matiba,
09:24yeah, former President Mike Bakke, even President Mui himself was a member of the House,
09:33along with many, so we had many, earth-shaking, political giants, among them, the young Raila Amoro Odinga.
09:50And over time, of course, he grew.
09:53Over time he grew, when he came in, he was simply the member for Langata.
09:59And subsequently, his father died, and he attempted to be the leader of his father's party, Ford Kenya.
10:08And they had a duel with the late Wamalwa Kijana, and in the end Wamalwa Kijana became the chair of Ford Kenya.
10:21And Raila Amoro Odinga did agree, and set out to form his own political party.
10:31It was called the National Development Party, NDP, and he resigned as a member of the Parliament and a member of Ford Kenya.
10:49He resigned as a member of Ford Kenya, member of the National Assembly, to set his own political party,
10:57and to seek a new mandate from the people who sent him to Parliament under Ford Kenya.
11:07And because he didn't want to be in Ford Kenya, he wanted to go back and seek a mandate from the people who sent him to Parliament under NDP.
11:20And he was duly elected and came back to Parliament as a member of NDP.
11:33And that thing has never happened again.
11:39Again.
11:40No member of Parliament has ever resigned because he disagreed with his political party,
11:50or has changed alliances to another political party.
11:54They remain in name to be members of that political party, and act in every way like members of the new outfit,
12:08with their illegally cohabiting, and the country has become the poorer for it.
12:16It's so true, and I like that example, because when we say that he is a champion of democracy,
12:23he's always worked to see that the system should operate the way it should.
12:28Back then, as you talk about, and even in 2017 when he challenged the election of Ruto,
12:35and up until his passing, he has always been somebody who sought to see that the system works and the Constitution works as envisioned.
12:49Perhaps I might ask you, do you have any personal reflections about him away from the camera, away from the political arena?
13:02Well, yes and no, most of the time when I was speaker, I kept, I was a friend to a lot of members.
13:15But I didn't socialize with any politician.
13:22Okay.
13:23Because I wanted to remain separate and apart, so that I would be able to justly deal with the members of the House.
13:39That's in line with neutrality of your role as Speaker of the National Assembly.
13:43Exactly.
13:44And I really wish that could return.
13:48You know, that time there was only one speaker.
13:51Now we have 49, my friend.
13:54In all county assemblies as well, yes.
13:56So the county assemblies and those two of the National Assembly and the Senate,
14:04bear the same name as the county assembly speakers, you know, that's a different thing.
14:13I think we should scratch our heads and get better ways of rearranging ourselves politically.
14:24But the thing is this, as a guardian of the House, you must always be neutral.
14:36You must not be seen or act in a way that shows that you favor any side.
14:47As a side with anybody, any side.
14:50Which?
14:51So we had a good relationship.
14:53As my member of the House, a lot of time he would come and we chat and if there was a motion,
15:02he wanted to move because he would seek evidence from the chair and direction,
15:07then we created a good relationship.
15:10Okay.
15:11But I have a caveat.
15:12As speaker, I maintained something called confidentiality of any matter that a member discussed with me.
15:25Okay.
15:26Because that is absolutely important to ensure that members, when they come to you,
15:34they are confident that if they opened up to you, that matter will not come out.
15:45And consequently, of course, there are a lot of matters that members discussed with me
15:50and I'm not even at liberty even now to discuss.
15:54But let me just say this.
15:56He was a very calculated fellow.
15:58He planned ahead, executed the plan in a most meticulous way, never in a rush, but was always conscious of the time to strike.
16:16And he struck at the time that the pulse of the country resonated with every word he uttered.
16:27And that's how, that's how, even in death, he is holding the country together.
16:37That is the same.
16:38And you know, as I said, it will be difficult to get somebody too much or to get anywhere near his shoes.
16:51We've definitely seen the sadness within the capital city.
16:58Many mourners are out on the streets and will be throughout this weekend in which we lay him to rest.
17:09Perhaps you'd have a word of encouragement for those who feel the depth of his loss.
17:18We all feel that loss.
17:21I, you know, one thing I didn't tell you, in the last election of 2022, I was fully in my last campaign team as an advisor.
17:36I was in the board of, the advisory board for him and we, we, we traveled quite a...
17:44You believed in him as a political aspirant or a presidential aspirant?
17:49Let me tell you, I truly believed with all my heart that at that time, he was the right person to lead this country.
17:59I truly believed with all my heart.
18:04And I had wished that at some stage, Raila would finally lead us.
18:15You know, even now, even now, even now, even now, you know, we have had so several, uh, luminaries dying in Kenya.
18:29We had President Kenyatta dying.
18:32We had, uh, Daniel Moy, we had Mwai Kebaki, we even had, uh, Malwa, and a lot of others, uh, who died in office, including Satuti.
18:44And I don't think there is any one of them, president or deputy, who attracted such an emotional attention across the country as well.
19:05Nobody has ever mastered the crowd that was there yesterday.
19:10You see it. Yes, JKIA was incredible.
19:13Today at the funeral, Nyayo Stadium is a mass and a wash of people. The love for him.
19:21Indeed, that is a president we were denied to have.
19:28In my view, a lot of time, he was denied that baton illegally through the legal process.
19:38You know, you can also use the legal process to subvert the truth.
19:45And it's tragic. It's tragic when, as a country, your legal process justifies something wrong.
19:55And I pray that it will not happen again.
19:58I pray that those who are in charge of our national institutions, important national institutions, like the Electoral Commission, like the Supreme Court, they have a duty to Kenyans to do the right thing.
20:17Perhaps then that should be…
20:18And this is not a request.
20:20Yes.
20:21It is a demand that they must do the right thing.
20:27They must honor the decision of Kenyans. Whoever they think they are and whatever their opinions are, it is relevant.
20:39The supreme organ of the state is always the people. And when the people have spoken, for heaven's sake, for heaven's sake, let the voice of the people prevail.
20:56That, then, really should be when we talk about what Ryla Odinga's legacy should be.
21:04Yes.
21:05He constantly fought for the proper institution of the system as envisioned.
21:11Exactly.
21:12And the constant, how do we call it, compromise of the system really then degrades at his legacy.
21:22We should be really working towards envisioning the electoral system working as it should be.
21:29Yvonne, I was shocked, you know, last time. Last time when I followed the proceedings of the petition filed by Ryla Odinga against his laws to the Honorable William Ruto.
21:49In 2022?
21:50In 2022?
21:51Yes.
21:52Yes.
21:53And as a lawyer, I was shocked. I had a language coming out of judicial officials, a language that has never been uttered even by third-class magistrates. I was shocked. I'm still shocked. I think as a legacy to Ryla Odinga,
22:20every institutional state and every public official must rise to the occasion and do justice and let the Kenyan people decision stand, irrespective of who the contestants are and irrespective of what you yourself think,
22:48the Kenyan people are.
22:49The Kenyan people are superior to any institution of state and to any individual, official, whoever you are. You must listen to the Kenyan people. This is what Ryla fought for all his life. If you didn't get it in life, that's because of this to him. Let's finally allow this to him.
23:16He opened the gates, obviously. He opened the gates. He helped to open the gates for the people to be heard for freedom of the Kenyans. He opened the gates.
23:35He opened the gates, but he opened the gates, but we are not there. We fought for equality, you know, this issue of this distribution of resources.
23:47Especially county government as well. By all government organs. You know, even before the coming of the counties, national resources were distributed in a very skilled manner and they still are. I think illegally, unjustifiably, and in a sinful way.
24:15Because every Kenyan is a Kenyan is a Kenyan wherever you come from, wherever you are tribe, whatever you are rank, you are a Kenyan. And if you are Kenyan, you are entitled as of right to every service available in this country from those you have entrusted with those resources.
24:44And you know the sad bit would be, is and has been, is that resources are given in a discriminative manner. If I like your tribe, in fact, it has been tribal. You know, you distribute the resources according to tribe. So if I don't like your tribe, I don't give you resources.
25:11But that's contravention to what the constitution and various statutory provisions provide.
25:17Yes, even, even, even, even.
25:20We, railers war has been put life into those papers called the constitution. In the end, the constitution is a piece of paper. It is us who put life to it by making sure that what we have written there is actualized.
25:39intentionality behind actions it's not just about the words on paper it's about who we put in place
25:47to drive the actualization of the constitution and how we actually do that you know there is no point
25:54in saying we are all all free and equal and yet we are not you know it's not a new thing even to
26:02kenya you know that that is what has led to american civil war that is also what the black people in
26:10america fought for too long equality before before the law and and the right to be served
26:21without discrimination that's a lot of what the gen z agenda is currently that started in you know
26:29is it is or was is it is or was perhaps expound on that what do you mean you know you know you know
26:44it was very very very interesting to see those youngsters come to demand that right you know all
26:51of them uh irrespective of uh of tribe and things like that yeah they say tribe less leaderless and
26:59i pray to god that they will finally liberate us from tribalism and they are our future they are our
27:10future we the elders now are exiting this stage and and and the stage is going to be there
27:21for a long time for a long time and consequently they have a right to be heard on what they want to be
27:29done and they have a right to be heard on what they don't want to be done because they are kenyans
27:41and number two they are there to live longer than those in ordinary circumstances
27:48than those already in power so the death of mse leaves a a very big gap yes like we say gen z agenda
27:58is uh stewing somewhere on the back burner um we now have lost you know somebody who we would say was
28:06the leader of opposition um going into the 2027 elections um
28:12um what are your thoughts about um first of all let's become back to this gen c thing and i i i wish i
28:21i have a copy of the book i wrote and i think it's in the car the last thing i said in that in that in
28:28that book the last paragraph of the book is that the best gift that ken has
28:39at the moment to write the wrongs of the past is our young generation who are equipped with knowledge
28:49not just of what we used to get knowledge from but above all from the internet and other new communication
29:01how do they fight the system just a moment let me finish what i sorry what my thoughts yes and and and i i
29:11thought these guys the youngsters god has put them in place today on a crossroad they have the ability
29:24they have the opportunity to lead us to change the wrong ways we have lived in the past but they also
29:34have the opportunity have the opportunity to lose it to leave it to to to let it to let it go
29:45and my first last question and i still post that question do they have the will
29:54to be the agents of change for this country so that finally finally we have a nation called kenya and
30:08i pray to god that they will get that will i pray to god that god will give us leadership that will
30:18liberate us from the wrong things we have done in the past there are many things that the kenyan
30:25leadership since independence have done that have been useful no doubt but there are also a lot of
30:32wrong things we have done chief among them the unwillingness unwillingness to liberate kenya from tribal yoke
30:45until we kill tribalism we'll never be free i think um from my perspective gen z certainly has the will
31:00the will exists to free kenya good unfortunately will is not enough finances is one thing as well
31:09fighting against live bullets is another thing as well fighting against the system where there's an army
31:20set against you in your implementation of the will can be very challenging let me put a caveat there let me
31:28tell you when you're talking about the army or the police they will be manned by young people they will be
31:36vengeance themselves so just if they want to kill themselves that's fine but i believe at some stage
31:45they will not kill one another i believe in at one stage god will give us a leadership that will listen
31:55and to the young people figure out about their tomorrow where they want to be
32:02they and liberators from the yoke of a tribalism being looting of national resources three careless
32:16implementation of projects and fourth favoritism we must get out of that the young people
32:26people at some stage i pray that that happens when i'm alive that the young people will be able to
32:37liberators from those evil things and that we'll be able to give them the opportunity
32:45to show us where they can do it i'm i'm sure of course we will say some people will say they are not
32:51experienced but who was born experienced we all run along the way and the young people also misunderstand
33:01that they don't live in this country alone they live with their older people they live with younger
33:10than they are they live with their age mates and they live with a few some older than them
33:18they should be able to touch the experiences of themselves of their elders and always remember
33:30we have only one country we should never destroy it we should mend where what is wrong as quickly as we
33:39can with all the brains we can master but let's never destroy this country and i wish you even now
33:48as we go to bury the jacom raila molodinga i appeal to kenyans let's have let's give him the opportunity
34:04to be laid to rest in the most decent manner let's give him the respect
34:15that is due to him let's not do anything or say anything that will detract from what he has fought for for
34:29too long under very harsh conditions he has sacrificed too much for us
34:38just have to hold those ideals very well put thank you so much honorable francis ola kaparo for joining us
34:48to talk about or to celebrate the life of the late right honorable raila omolo odinga and there's many messages within that there's many
35:00there's a lot of food for thought in terms of trying to reflect on what raila meant to each of us as kenyans
35:07to the journey of kenya and the prosperity of kenya as a whole and as we wrap up with straight talk we urge
35:17the viewers out there to follow his lesson to relentlessly pursue democracy in its most purest form
35:27thank you so much honorable kaparo for joining us thank you young lady i appreciate it thank you yes
35:35you are watching straight talk i'm your host yvonne checker join us again thank you
35:49so
35:58you
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