- 2 days ago
NFL Insider Nikki Gist joins Craig & C-Mac with some news that the Giants may be considering a huge front office shake-up after the draft...and, of course, reaction to Dianna Russini's resignation from The Athletic.
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00:00Nikki Gist is our NFL insider. I do have a piece of advice for Nikki today, actually.
00:04I was thinking about her watching her stuff online today, but before I get to my career advice for her,
00:10happy to have her joining us with, as she told us a few days ago, breaking New York Giants story.
00:15And she's now prepared to bring that to us. First, let me say, good afternoon, Nikki. How are you today?
00:21Hi, Nikki.
00:21I'm good. How are you guys?
00:23You want the career advice first, or you want to go with the breaking story first?
00:27Go ahead and hit me with the advice.
00:29Okay, here's the advice. All right, because I want you to be successful, and I root for my friends, okay?
00:35And now you're a friend of the show. You need to change your screen name.
00:40You need an official, like, professional screen name that's the same everywhere you are.
00:46So if I want Nikki Gist information, I know what to look up.
00:50Because on Twitter, it's like Nikki Gist, like, 47932 or something, like when you first opened up your account.
00:57You know what I'm saying?
00:58Right, yeah. It was a long time ago.
01:00Right, so we're professional. Let's act professional.
01:04We need a standard name that I can search across all social media platforms so that when I want to
01:10get my giant breaking news, bang, I know where to find you, okay?
01:15All right, I appreciate that.
01:17You got it now.
01:17Someone alerted me to the fact that I still have overnight hosts on my Facebook page, so don't worry about
01:22it.
01:23Yeah, listen, you can't expect people to take you seriously if you don't present yourself seriously.
01:28No, I got it. I got it. I got it. I got it. I got it.
01:29Yeah, well, get on it today, please.
01:31I'm going to get on it.
01:32Embarrassing.
01:32In any event, Nikki, you told us a couple days ago that you're working on a breaking New York Giants
01:38story that does not involve a player, so we kind of put Dexter Lawrence to the side there, and I'm
01:44really interested in finding out what the story is.
01:46So the floor is yours. What do you got?
01:48All right, so everybody knows that there's been some rumblings about Joe Shane and John Harbaugh, so my understanding, sources
02:03say, he is struggling to find his footing in his new revised role as general manager.
02:15Now, yes, we did just hear him speak this afternoon.
02:19Listen, he's done that pre-draft press conference a million times at this point, so he is well-versed in
02:27what to say.
02:28He is specifically concerned about how this is actually going to play out in practice come draft time because he
02:40is not running the show,
02:41and I was told to expect more personnel changes.
02:47All right, so let me connect your report to something that Pat Leonard also said earlier today, which is a
02:54little bit different.
02:55You guys are coming at it from two different angles.
02:57Do you think, and I'm going to bar from Pat here for a second, that that change could be Joe
03:05Shane is out after this upcoming draft?
03:07Is that the type of thing you're hearing?
03:10I'm hearing that it would be multiple people.
03:14So Joe Shane, among the people that after this draft might not be employed by the New York Giants in
03:20their current positions, is that a fair way to put it?
03:23That there would be multiple personnel changes.
03:26After the draft?
03:29As John Harbaugh continues to execute his vision in the Giants building.
03:35So let me ask you this, and if you don't know, you don't know, it's fine.
03:39I'm just trying to get a little bit more info from you.
03:42Are your sources telling you that while they've put on a very happy face together and a face that says
03:49they respect each other and the work they both put in, etc.,
03:52that John Harbaugh and Joe Shane, and I don't want to put words in your mouth either, that they're not
03:58working well together?
04:00Or that in the brief amount of time they've been together, John maybe thinks he can do better than Joe
04:05is GM?
04:07I, no, I don't think it's a case of they're not working well together.
04:12There are meetings.
04:13They are collaborating.
04:15It's Joe Shane is unsure of where exactly he stands in his new revised role and is very concerned about
04:24how this actually is going to play out come the draft.
04:28And for the past few weeks, I've gotten some great insight on what a John Harbaugh-led building kind of
04:37looks like.
04:38And if he wants you there, he will make arrangements to get you there.
04:42He will create positions for you.
04:45Right.
04:45If he doesn't want you there, he will make arrangements to make sure you're not there.
04:50And the buck stops with him.
04:52So, it's Joe Shane kind of feeling like, I don't know what I'm supposed to do.
04:57Can I interrupt you for a second?
04:58Because I just want to make sure I understand this clear.
05:00Because it's fascinating with the draft next Thursday.
05:03The first round is Thursday night, of course, then into the weekend.
05:06And we have our big draft special on YouTube, as everybody knows, live at about 7.30, 8 o'clock
05:12next Thursday.
05:13So, just so I understand it correctly, because I want to get this right.
05:16What you're hearing from inside the Giants camp is that it's not the future that Joe Shane's worried about.
05:23He may not currently know his role for next Thursday, meaning when the Giants pick fifth,
05:30he's not sure if he's making the pick or exactly what his role is.
05:35Is that right?
05:36That's correct.
05:37He is unsure how his new role is going to play out in practice with John Harbaugh leading the draft.
05:45And if I'm hearing you right, you're also kind of saying that if there are changes made,
05:51it might not be anyone directing Joe Shane or others to leave.
05:55It's that they feel uncomfortable in the situation and might exit themselves.
06:00Is that...
06:00He's in the last year of his deal, right?
06:02But I'm just saying, like, if he's unsure of it, are we saying that he's unhappy and no longer wants
06:07to be here?
06:08Or the writing is on the wall that he is going to be shown the door?
06:12I was told that John Harbaugh to expect more moves from John Harbaugh, more personnel.
06:19Yeah, well, the only thing...
06:20So that's like, you know, we wouldn't be talking about if it's a low-level person.
06:25Like, if you're firing someone who's like, you know, the 12th in command of, like, pro-personnel department,
06:30with all due respect to whoever that person is, that's a...
06:33You just fire that person.
06:34Right.
06:34Or wish them well.
06:36That's not news.
06:36It doesn't make the newspaper.
06:37The stuff that Nikki seems like she's talking about, you're talking about, obviously, Chris Mara,
06:44who's not going anywhere, nor does Harbaugh have the ability to get rid of him.
06:47His last name is Mara.
06:48Right.
06:48And he's been with the organization for damn near 30 years in, like, a pro-personnel type of...
06:53And Chris needs to be there, right?
06:56Because he is taking on this more day-to-day operation, which, by the way, was intentional.
07:01I want everyone to know that that was intentional, right?
07:04John Harbaugh wanted Donna Ponte here.
07:06We needed Chris Mara, right?
07:08They said to come in, take more of this day-to-day.
07:11Unfortunately, John Mara is still dealing with his health issues.
07:13So he needs to be able to pull back when he can, which is unfortunate.
07:19But, you know, he is still very much present and there.
07:23But there's a difference between leading and being present and working on the day-to-day.
07:28So...
07:29For sure.
07:29Yeah, I have not heard anything about Chris Mara not being there.
07:34If anything, it's him becoming more and more and more involved.
07:37I agree.
07:37As far as Joe Shane goes, is it your understanding that as the relationship has progressed, that's where it's heading?
07:44Or the idea that it was kind of always heading this way and they just felt it was better to
07:50keep things intact up until the draft?
07:53Yeah, so my understanding is John Harbaugh likes to do things in phases, right?
07:59And it was, let's come in here and get, let's get the right coaching staff in here, right?
08:04Let's get my guys in here.
08:06Let's look at the contracts.
08:07Let's look at the players.
08:09But I was told, make no mistake about it, he's not finished yet.
08:14Okay.
08:15Got it.
08:15Let me ask you a question while we have you on.
08:17I'm talking to Nikki Guest, who is a Giant insider, but I guess also covers the NFL, but has a
08:23good focus and sources specifically with the New York Giants.
08:27She was the first in America to have the Brian Babel-Damner got fired after the Bronco debacle.
08:32And while other people kind of stole that from her, she was the first to report it 100%, and that's
08:37not up for debate, at least the way I read things.
08:40There's a report from Jordan Schultz saying he's, I like Jordan a lot, I respect Jordan a great deal, that
08:46there might be a looming battle between the Dallas Cowboys, who also have two first-round draft picks, so they
08:52have the ability to put them together and maybe move up.
08:54But there's a battle between the Giants and the Cowboys over an unnamed draft prospect that they both are very
09:04high on.
09:05Now, Jeremiah Love, of course, comes to mind.
09:08I know there's been rumors that the Giants will take him at five.
09:11Giant fans aren't thrilled about that, so maybe it's a smokescreen.
09:14The New York, the Dallas Cowboys have not had a great running game, and them drafting a running back, frankly,
09:20would not shock me.
09:21But do you have any insight on what Jordan might be referencing when it comes to a specific player that
09:27the Giants and Cowboys might be fighting over?
09:30I don't know who this specific player is.
09:33I can confirm that the Cowboys are very eager to move up, yes.
09:40Take their two first-round picks, couple them together, and try to get into the top five, six if they
09:45can, right?
09:46Obviously, Jordan's at five, which is why the Giants story comes in right there.
09:50They'd have to get to four to do it, obviously.
09:52With Tennessee, yeah.
09:54So what's the feeling around, you say Joe Shane is unhappy with his role as far as the draft goes.
09:59There's been a lot of speculation that as well as possibly making a fifth pick, there's a possibility of trading
10:04back.
10:04There's been speculation the Giants would be interested maybe in making that kind of deal.
10:08Do we have a feeling that Joe Shane has anything to do with any conversations about moving this pick, making
10:15this pick?
10:15Is there literally no role for him here, or is he just unsure as he goes about what he believes
10:21is his business?
10:22Yes, it wasn't that he was unhappy.
10:25He is unsure because it's all on John Harbaugh's making the decisions they haven't done on John Harbaugh-led draft.
10:37Yes, they collaborate.
10:39Yes, they have meetings.
10:40But is unsure heading into the draft?
10:43How is this new role going to look in practice?
10:47So he's going about his business, doing his due diligence, talking through players, speculating about, you know, talking to other
10:54teams about moving back or moving up.
10:55But the concern is, come the day of the draft, he's not sure how much of his input will be
11:00used that day as he goes about it.
11:03I'm going to tell you, if that, and I appreciate the story, that's a real problem for me if I'm
11:08a Giant fan.
11:09He's the general manager going about his business, deciding whether, you know, talking to teams, trying to figure out what
11:13he's going to pick.
11:14And while he's doing all this busy work, and if you remember from the inside, the look we had in
11:20the show, The Hard Knocks.
11:21You know, it's a ton of work, and he's going all about that, and he doesn't know if any of
11:27it is going to be used.
11:29Here's the problem with it, and that's part of it, guys.
11:31The problem with it is, when the phone rings in the Giants draft room with a team that says, hey,
11:38you, and this, by the way, they shortened the amount of time in between picks this year.
11:41I think it's eight minutes instead of ten.
11:43So I know that doesn't seem like a lot, but that's pretty significant as you go through this, right?
11:48When the phone rings from another team looking to move up or maybe make a deal with the New York
11:53Giants, question one is, who answers it?
11:57Question two is, let's assume for the sake of the conversation that Joe Shane's still the guy that answers the
12:02call because he's got the relationships at that level.
12:04Yeah, that's the question.
12:06Executives to executives.
12:07If I'm the Titans, all right, and I want to talk to you, if I'm the Cowboys, I want to
12:12move up, whatever it might be, right?
12:13And I reach out to Joe Shane, and I say to Joe Shane, with the clock ticking very fast now,
12:19hey, would you take this, this, this, and this for that?
12:22What you're telling me, Nicky, is that Joe Shane isn't sure in the moment, can he say yes to that,
12:30or does he have to say, hold on one second, John, do you want to do this?
12:36Which means...
12:37Or if any of the groundwork and legwork he's been putting in for the last two months...
12:40But I don't care as much about that because they share the information in meetings every day.
12:43I'm talking about...
12:44Yes.
12:45But we knew going in that he would have to run it by John.
12:46No, but I'm talking about the clock is ticking.
12:48Yeah, but we knew that.
12:49He doesn't have unilateral ability to just say yes without talking to Hobbes.
12:53That's how you make mistakes in the draft, in my opinion.
12:57Well, if the guy answering the phone's not the guy that makes the decision, then you might lose out on
13:02opportunities.
13:04That's not a competent way to run a draft, in my opinion.
13:06I understand.
13:06I'm just saying, I think we always knew that John Hall was...
13:08I saw Kevin Costner trying to get deals done in draft day, and if he hadn't then turned around and
13:13said to the coach, are we doing this deal?
13:15He would have been stuck with that losing quarterback who went to Seattle.
13:18Let me ask you it this way then, Nicky.
13:20Did you, before this report, before you were willing to break it, did you feel that anybody else but John
13:28Harbaugh was going to make that decision?
13:30Like, is that new news to you, that John Harbaugh would be the one making this decision?
13:35And that Joe Shane couldn't decide on a pick or a trade unilaterally?
13:41Hard for you to say.
13:43She understood.
13:44She gets it.
13:46I'm picking up what you're putting down.
13:49You always knew that John Harbaugh was going to be the one making this decision.
13:52No?
13:53Yes.
13:54But, so, you know, the information had been coming over the last few weeks, right?
13:59And you're trying to piece all of these things together, and you're trying to verify sources, and you're trying to
14:04make sure your information is accurate.
14:06I think the missing piece of the puzzle was just how much uncertainty there would be going into the draft,
14:14and the fact that John Harbaugh is not done making personnel changes.
14:20Right, that's really the...
14:20And to expect, expect more.
14:23Got it.
14:24Okay.
14:24You know, listen, I appreciate it.
14:26It is interesting that the draft a week from this Thursday, the New York Giants, it's going to be interesting.
14:33It's because the Giants are going to play.
14:35Whether they sit there at five and take whomever they think is, you know, the best fit for the new
14:39look New York Giants,
14:40or they're willing to wheel and deal and try to acquire extra players.
14:44It's a very interesting dynamic where the general manager basically has been emasculated by the new head coach.
14:51Nikki, always appreciate you.
14:52When you have that new tagline and name, could you please let me know so I can let everybody else
14:57know?
14:58You'll be the first to know.
15:01I'll tag you.
15:02Good info.
15:03Appreciate you.
15:03And I look forward to having you back on again soon.
15:05Take care.
15:06All right.
15:06Bye.
15:07All right.
15:07Oh, by the way, Nikki, before you go, your just immediate, quick, guttural reaction to Diana Rossini,
15:14resigning from The Athletic as someone who does what she does.
15:17Go ahead.
15:19I mean, I feel like the resignation is an admission of guilt.
15:24If the supposed group of six and this girl's trip, if they existed, wouldn't that have been easy to prove?
15:31I know if that was me, I'd let the investigation play out.
15:35I'd let it clear my name.
15:37And I would fight because I would know that if she stands by her work, then stand by in the
15:43investigation.
15:44So I think this resignation is just kind of an admission of guilt.
15:49Yeah.
15:50I think everyone feels the same exact way.
15:52Because if you know in your heart of hearts you didn't do anything wrong, then you fight toothing out to
15:56save your reputation and your job.
15:57And, you know, The Athletic can fire you anyway.
15:59Her contract's up in a couple months.
16:01So the timing was easier for The Athletic to have this happen.
16:06And I'm sure, you know, she resigned after talking to them.
16:09And they said, look, you know, for your future, trust me on this, resign.
16:14Do not have us fire you.
16:15Because there is a difference in the public perception, whether you think there is or not in the moment.
16:20And being fired versus resigning does make a difference six months from now when she attempts to kind of redefine
16:26herself and her career.
16:27So I think I'm with you on that lockstep.
16:29All right.
16:30Appreciate you.
16:31Enjoy Florida.
16:32Take care.
16:32Talk to you soon.
16:33Bye.
16:34All right.
16:34Nikki, yes.
16:35All right.
16:35So there you go.
16:36Yeah.
16:36I mean.
16:37So the general manager kind of on the eggshells.
16:41I mean.
16:42Kind of could have seen that one coming, right?
16:44Yeah.
16:44I don't think that's the part of the like.
16:46I don't think that's breaking news.
16:47The breaking news is that there's expectations he won't be here after the draft.
16:51Yes.
16:51And Pat Leonard's on that, too.
16:52The breaking news is that she's saying that there is an expectation of changes after the draft at the highest
16:59levels of the front office.
17:00But, like, to me, your scenario, I understand what you're saying, but your scenario that someone would call Joe Shane
17:05and say, hey, we got five minutes.
17:07I want to make this deal.
17:08What do you do?
17:08What do you say?
17:09There's no way at any point since John Harbaugh took the job that I felt Joe Shane would be able
17:15to say, yes, we got it.
17:16You're right.
17:17I would always, we always assumed he would have to go.
17:19Hey, coach, you go with this?
17:20Are you all right?
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