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00:00We just keep the machine rolling, and when we find someone, we will find someone.
00:05We're not going to rush it, but I guarantee whoever we get will be well known as soon as he's
00:09in the band.
00:11Rock, metal, prog, and everything in between.
00:15Welcome to this episode of Talkin' Rock with Meltdown.
00:18Don't forget to follow the audio-only Talkin' Rock podcast on all podcast platforms.
00:23And now, it's time for today's conversation. Here's Meltdown.
00:27Hey, Rachel, good to see you, man. How are you?
00:29Doing well, man. Excited. A lot of good stuff going on.
00:33That's awesome. I thought I would dress for the occasion.
00:35I've got my, I don't know if you can see this, my Detroit Kiss shirt on, you see?
00:38Love it. I love it. I got a Yankees version of that in the house somewhere.
00:42Okay, there you go. Yeah.
00:44But anyways, I'm going to see Gene coming up here on Thursday.
00:47So maybe when we wrap this up, you'll have to give me a question for Gene.
00:50Oh, okay, cool.
00:52Because the brand-new Rockin' Brew is opened up here in the Motor City,
00:55and so he's going to officially cut the ribbon coming up this week.
00:58Oh, nice, nice.
01:00Have you been to any of those?
01:02Yeah. There used to be one in LAX.
01:04It's not there anymore for some reason, but I've been to a few,
01:07and we actually did a pop-up show at one somewhere in California,
01:15in the casino somewhere.
01:17They asked us to do a show at it, and it was just like people were sitting around eating.
01:21All of a sudden, Skid Row busts out on stage, and we start playing.
01:25We actually did two shows there. It was fun. It was a lot of fun, man.
01:28You were totally plugged in?
01:31Oh, yeah.
01:31Like, we scared the hell out of everybody.
01:34Like, we were just full-on, man, on a tiny stage.
01:37It was fun. I love doing stuff like that.
01:40Yeah, that's awesome.
01:40Well, let's get into it, man.
01:42Gargoyle of the Garden State.
01:44I was telling you the other day, I called myself, what did I say?
01:46The miscreant of the mitten state.
01:49If I were to put out a new record.
01:51But anyways, when did this solo project start percolating?
01:55How long has this been in the works?
01:56Well, I've had some of these songs.
02:01You know, I write just about every day just to write,
02:04and a lot of stuff wasn't right for Skid Row.
02:09But when I lived, before I moved back to Jersey, I lived down in Tennessee.
02:14I lived right down the street from one of my best friends, Nick Raskalinox.
02:19And we were, I'm sure there was a few drinks involved,
02:24but I was like, man, I should, now that, like, I'm going to have downtime,
02:29I should see if the label is interested in doing a solo record.
02:32He's like, I want to produce it.
02:33And I was like, yeah, of course, you know.
02:35So as it happened, the label was interested in me doing it.
02:39So what kind of started from a conversation with a friend
02:42ended up coming to fruition, you know what I mean?
02:45And it's been a lot of fun doing it.
02:48And just, I mean, except for the drums
02:50and some of my friends that came in to play certain parts,
02:53it was just Nick and I in the studio.
02:55And so we laughed a lot.
02:58You know, it's really cool to do some stuff like this
03:02with something you're really close to.
03:04Now, so since you're so close to Nick, I didn't realize it.
03:08I mean, obviously down in Tennessee, a lot of guys do know him,
03:10do work with him in the rock world.
03:12But did you play on anybody else's stuff,
03:15maybe stuff we've heard of,
03:16or maybe stuff that you kind of just went in
03:18and just played on in secret?
03:22Through Nick?
03:23Yeah, through any of his projects, yeah.
03:25No, we, no, I haven't.
03:30Yeah, all the stuff he's doing, they have bass players.
03:32Okay.
03:33Unfortunately.
03:33All right, there you go.
03:34I didn't know if maybe,
03:35I do have a friend of mine who's played drums on some stuff
03:38and he's not allowed to talk about it.
03:40It's, you know, songs you've heard and stuff
03:42where the drummer was, you know, he couldn't make it.
03:46Right, okay, gotcha.
03:48Stuff like that.
03:49I didn't know if anything like that had happened.
03:50But you talk about all the guests and stuff.
03:53Was there anybody that you couldn't get to play on this?
03:57There were a couple and it had to do,
04:03some just, they weren't interested in it.
04:06You know what I mean?
04:06One guy wasn't interested in it,
04:09which is fine.
04:10It was a long shot anyway.
04:11But then some people, yes, I'm in,
04:14as long as it's not in these months
04:16because I'll be on tour.
04:18And it would fall and it's just like, you know, damn.
04:21But it's cool, you know.
04:23I knew that was going to be a problem.
04:25Like logistics were going to come into play
04:27with a lot of stuff.
04:28But, you know, I got, again,
04:30I'm called on friends first, you know.
04:34Corey Taylor sang a song.
04:36Steve Conti sang a song.
04:39Danko on the first single.
04:40We sang a song together.
04:42And then I called Nuno.
04:44I was like, dude, do you want to play a solo on the record?
04:45He's like, hell yeah.
04:46You know, and Rob Hammersmith played the drums
04:49through the whole thing.
04:50And then Scotty and Snake each did a solo
04:52on a couple songs.
04:54And I hope I'm not missing anybody.
04:56And then my friends Ryan Cook and Paul Taylor
04:59did a lot of backup with me.
05:01And another friend of mine, Matt Farley,
05:03from the Rock and Roll Chef down in Nashville.
05:07He came in and sang some harmonies and stuff.
05:10So it was, oh, and Damon Johnson.
05:13How could I forget that?
05:14Damon Johnson played like five solos on there
05:16and just lit things up.
05:19And if you don't know Damon,
05:20then you live under a rock.
05:23His brother Kane, he's been in Skinner
05:25for I don't even know how long for,
05:27I'm probably almost, but it, yeah,
05:31it was so cool to have all my friends there
05:33and being a part of it.
05:34And it just meant a lot to me as a bro.
05:37And then musically, it just,
05:39like when you see an idea come to life,
05:42you know, it's a special thing.
05:46Yeah, I always wonder when,
05:47whenever you have outside influences
05:49come in to help you,
05:50somebody explained this to me,
05:52or somebody said this to me one time.
05:53They're going, I always had this fear,
05:55like when I got their vocals
05:56or I got their guitars or whatever it was,
05:58that I wouldn't like it.
05:59Do you ever have that fear?
06:00Or did you just go, you know what?
06:01Nuno's playing it and I don't care if I like it or not.
06:03It's Nuno, it's going on the record
06:04or something like that.
06:05Well, when I was thinking that
06:08I was going to ask friends to play stuff on it,
06:13that I kind of knew which songs that fit them the best.
06:19And, you know, being that,
06:21like all these people that I talked about,
06:24I'm really good friends with.
06:27So I knew like their style would fit perfectly to the song.
06:32And like the song that Corey sang on,
06:36we like the same type of stuff.
06:37We have the same punk rock background
06:40as far as taste in music.
06:42And I'm like, man,
06:43I'm kind of hearing a Sham 69 thing,
06:45like Borstel Brick.
06:46I was like, got it.
06:47Send me the lyrics.
06:48Send me the song.
06:49And he came in and I think he sang through it
06:52once to get a level.
06:54And then another time.
06:55And then he doubled it.
06:57And we talked about punk rock for the next two hours.
06:59It was great.
07:01I've heard he can bust stuff out pretty quick.
07:04Yeah.
07:04I flew out to Vegas to make it, you know,
07:06so it was easy on him.
07:08And it was great.
07:09It was so much fun just to do that kind of stuff.
07:12And then Danko, actually,
07:13I wasn't there for Danko to record,
07:14but he recorded it up in Toronto and sent it to me.
07:20And he's like, how's this?
07:21I was like, dude, it's perfect.
07:22It's absolutely perfect.
07:23So, you know, it's great.
07:25It's a lot of fun.
07:26Yeah.
07:26Of course, being Canadian and whatnot up there in Toronto.
07:28But, yeah, that song, too, at War World, myself,
07:31it's a little bit more punk rock-ish.
07:33And I know that that's like in your past,
07:35and it's kind of like part of your DNA.
07:37So what are some of the flavors of the rest of the record?
07:40There's a lot of stuff like that.
07:42But, like, it was everything that really influenced me as a kid,
07:50you know, like punk rock and, like, the Brit pop back then,
07:54you know, when in the 70s and, like, glam and hard rock, you know.
08:00But everything is pretty high energy on the record.
08:05There's one song that Steve Conti sang that's the only song that kind of
08:10slows things down, but it still fits in that vein and kind of psych furs
08:16type thing, you know.
08:18And his voice was perfect for it.
08:21It just – but the whole album as a body of work, it's pretty high RPM.
08:28Now, you stated that you started this with Nick down –
08:32you started it when you still live in Nashville.
08:33Is that correct?
08:34Is that where the seeds were sown?
08:36That's when we talked about it.
08:38And we talked about it and talked about it more, talked about it more.
08:41I moved back to Jersey, and I get the solo deal.
08:44I'm like, hey, I'm coming down to Nashville.
08:47So, yeah, so I just got a hotel, and I drove down there with about 12
08:52guitars in my car or my Explorer and drove down there and met Rob.
09:00And, you know, Rob is just a monster.
09:03Like, he just came in.
09:04He knocked out 11 songs in about two and a half days.
09:08And it was just – and that's –
09:10Rob, your drummer.
09:12Hammer Smith, yeah.
09:13Skid Row, yeah.
09:14And so he just absolutely crushed it, as I knew he would, because, again,
09:20he – we grew up listening to the same type of music and still love this type
09:24of music like that.
09:26And so, yeah, he just came in and just stomped it, man.
09:29It was great.
09:30Now, I just talked with Zachy Vengeance from Avenged Sevenfold,
09:33who just dropped his solo record back a couple – actually, last week.
09:37And he went by his real name, and he told me he went by his real name
09:42because the songs were so personal to him.
09:44And I thought that was kind of interesting.
09:47Obviously, you said these songs were personal, too.
09:49I think I read something about that as well.
09:52Where do these – where does, like, the impetus of these songs come from?
09:55And how do you know if it's not a song that fits with Skid Row?
09:58Is it just a feeling, just a vibe?
10:00Yeah, it is definitely a vibe, you know, because we have our big rock riffs,
10:06and that's kind of what our career was made on.
10:11And a lot of this stuff is just chugging away or just flailing away where,
10:17you know, a guy like me could play the guitar on it.
10:22And, like – well, actually, I should say anybody.
10:25But I'm fortunate enough to be with Skid Row in a band with two of the best rock
10:31guitar players, like, without hand down.
10:36To me, the best rock duo guitar players that there is because they know what
10:42each other are thinking.
10:43So it just wasn't – it wouldn't – they're too good to play my stuff.
10:52Let's put it that way.
10:55So, you know, and they have their own style, and I have my own style of playing guitar.
11:00So that's why I play guitar instead of having other people come in and do it
11:03because I knew what I was thinking, you know.
11:05And it just worked out.
11:08And being in the studio like that, you know, I had never – you know,
11:13I do demos like that all the time, and then I bring it to those guys
11:17when I do Skid Row stuff.
11:18I'll bring it to those guys, and then they turn it into their own style
11:22where this just stayed my style.
11:24And it was fun.
11:25It was a lot of fun.
11:26And I'd do something, and Nick sometimes would go, hmm.
11:31And I'd be like, no good.
11:32He's like, try something else.
11:33And I'd do something else.
11:34He's like, that's what I'm talking about.
11:35And then I feel good about it, you know.
11:37Yeah, that's great.
11:38So speaking of Skid Row, are you guys working on new stuff,
11:42or do you wait until you get a singer?
11:44Or where does that stand right now?
11:46We're still looking.
11:48We're taking our time.
11:49But Snake and I do get together and write.
11:51We just wrote a little bit today, as a matter of fact.
11:54He just left about 10 minutes ago.
11:56So, yeah, we just keep the machine rolling.
12:02And when we find someone, we'll find someone.
12:05But we're not going to rush it.
12:07You know, we've got, we did this promotion through Sweetwater
12:12and probably have listened to about 300 submissions at this point.
12:17And there's some really good stuff on there.
12:19And we've auditioned people outside of that as well
12:22that were really good, you know.
12:24So it's a long process, and we were prepared for it.
12:28But now I got stuff to do.
12:31I got the solo record.
12:32Right, yeah.
12:33Yeah, are you going to tour on that?
12:35That's the plan.
12:36And I would like to, you know, we'll see what comes up.
12:42It would be great to jump on a really cool tour with bands that I dig, you know.
12:49And I have a drummer.
12:50I got to put the rest of the band together.
12:52Rob is in for the long haul.
12:54So I want to get people that I know, that I respect, and that I like their playing,
13:01and that fits my music.
13:03But they're all in bands.
13:04So as much as they want to do it, they're like, oh, I'm on tour from now until, you know,
13:09the middle of 27 type of thing.
13:12So it's one of those deals.
13:13But if we do do do shows, then, yeah, I'm going to have guys that I really, who's playing,
13:22I really love.
13:24Now, it's funny, because I have seen a lot of people posting their audition tapes online,
13:30which I'm sure you've seen as well.
13:32And I can't remember if I was talking to you guys or who I was talking to.
13:35I interview a lot of people, but someone made this point to me one time that they didn't
13:39want to bring in a singer or guitar player, whatever it was, with a lot of baggage.
13:43And by baggage, I mean a huge history, because then the fans would want to hear all that stuff.
13:47You know what I'm saying?
13:48Do you run across that?
13:49Is that like something that goes on in the back of your head when you're looking for a singer?
13:53I mean, let's just say, for example, you had Lizzie Hale.
13:56People would want to hear a hailstorm stuff.
13:57But obviously, you know, it's just kind of a weird thing, isn't it?
14:01Yeah.
14:01Yeah, you know, I would think people would want to hear, like, wow, what would it sound
14:08like for Skid Row to play a hailstorm song, you know?
14:13But yeah, and that's the one thing about bringing in someone well-known.
14:17But I guarantee whoever we get will be well-known as soon as he's in the band.
14:23Right, right, right.
14:24I think I might have been talking to somebody in Judas Priest, and I think that's what it
14:28was, that when Rob left the band, they didn't want to bring in somebody that had a lot of
14:33history to him.
14:34I can't remember.
14:34I could be wrong.
14:35But I always thought that was kind of interesting.
14:37You know, when Dio joined Black Sabbath, obviously, you know, he had a lot of history.
14:42Yeah, yeah.
14:45Man, I may get killed for saying this, but that's when I really became a Sabbath fan.
14:50Like, I started there and worked my way backwards, you know what I mean?
14:53I loved Ozzy solo stuff, absolutely loved it.
14:57But I really became a Sabbath fan when Dio joined the band, because I just loved his voice
15:03and his whole thing.
15:04He's just sort of like his aggression and stuff, you know?
15:07Did you ever get a chance to meet him?
15:08He was one of the nicest guys I ever met.
15:10Yeah, I went to racing school with him, actually.
15:13Really?
15:14Yeah.
15:15Years, I guess, it must have been 89 or 90.
15:19I got invited to do the, at the time it was Paul Newman did a charity race, but you had
15:28to go to school and like learn how to race.
15:30And at that point, I wasn't racing as I did later on in years.
15:35But so I went to Lime Rock, Connecticut, and they're like, oh, there's two more, I'm using
15:42finger quotes, VIPs coming.
15:45And I'm like, well, who is it?
15:45They're like, there's a guy named Kurt Smith.
15:49I'm like, from Tears for Fears?
15:51And they're like, yeah, that's him.
15:53And I'm like, awesome.
15:54Because I love Tears for Fears.
15:55Yeah.
15:56And they go, and Ronnie, I go, yeah, Ronnie James Dio, right?
16:00And they go, yeah, that's it.
16:01And I was like, whoa, cool.
16:03So I'm sitting in the back of a BMW with the helmets on, and we're on the skid pad, and
16:08we each take turns just getting into like the worst spins.
16:14And I'm just like, you know, we're hitting our helmets against each other and shit, because
16:18we're in the backseat.
16:20And I'm like, I can't believe I'm doing this with Ronnie James Dio.
16:23This is the best.
16:25That's a great story.
16:26And so then would you see him, you know, years later?
16:29And, you know, did you tell him that you became a Sabbath fan through his stuff?
16:33I think I told him that weekend, because we spent the whole weekend together, you know?
16:37And he was actually on tour and had some days off.
16:40So their tour bus was parked in front of the hotel, and we all piled on it.
16:45His crew, the band, I think Simon Wright was playing drums at the time.
16:50I think, I guess the tour manager, and then Kurt Smith and I jumped on their tour bus, and
16:55we went to some Indian restaurant.
16:56And it was a bunch of us, and we're just chugging beers.
17:00It was fun.
17:01I was like, man, I got to tell you, you got me into Sabbath.
17:05And he was like, really?
17:07I'm like, yeah, he was really, he was so nice.
17:10The nicest, yeah.
17:11And of course, you know, being a bass guy and whatnot, I think that's some of Geezer's
17:16best stuff, especially like on Heaven and Hell and stuff.
17:18That's just my opinion, not being a bass guy.
17:20Yeah, yeah, yeah, he's, like, Heaven and Hell and Mob Rules, those albums kick ass, man.
17:28I will put them up against any heavy metal record, any of them.
17:32Totally.
17:33So in the mid-70s, we talked about this before with you and Snake, but in the mid-70s, you
17:36saw, was Kiss your first concert?
17:39Yep.
17:39Okay.
17:40And then where does it go from Kiss?
17:42Because I was kind of like the same thing.
17:43Like, Ozzy was my first concert in 84.
17:46I'm a few years younger than you.
17:48Not much.
17:49But Ozzy was my first concert.
17:51So where do you go from Kiss?
17:53And they say you discovered Black Sabbath in 1980 or thereabouts, I suppose, maybe a
17:58little bit after.
17:58Yeah, it was after that.
18:00But, say, I was a punk rock kid.
18:03So I went, like, I saw Kiss at the Philadelphia Spectrum.
18:08And then, where did I first see that?
18:12I think Ramones were playing Six Flags in Jackson, New Jersey.
18:16And I saw them a couple summers later.
18:20And I was just like, wow.
18:24This is, it was life-changing.
18:25It was during the day.
18:26And I'm like, these guys are in their leathers during the day, just beating down on them.
18:31And then I saw Joe Jackson the next week.
18:34And these are all, like, a bunch of my first, like, as far as different.
18:39I saw Kiss a lot, right?
18:42Like, every tour they came around.
18:45But I didn't get to see the Ramones a lot because I was too young to get into venues with
18:50bars.
18:51And my mom was not going to let me go to City Gardens in Trenton because it's just, wow.
18:56So I had to wait for them to play the outdoor arena in Six Flags.
19:07But I kept seeing that.
19:08Oh, and then I'd go see ACDC.
19:10I saw them at the Spectrum.
19:12And Fastway opened.
19:13And, you know, then I finally saw Judas Priest and Iron Maiden opened.
19:20And the first, when I saw Kiss on the Dynasty tour, Judas Priest opened for him.
19:27Wow.
19:28And then I saw Priest later during, what's the record with Electric Eye?
19:34Oh, Screaming?
19:35Screaming for Vengeance.
19:36I saw that tour and Iron Maiden was opening.
19:39And, yeah, so it just went from there.
19:42So Rush, so, you know.
19:45What do you think of Rush reforming?
19:47You've got to be a huge fan, right?
19:49Yeah, I'm, like, I'm a fan of Rush.
19:52I wouldn't say, like, I'm, like, as big a fan of Rush as I am of, like, Kiss and Ramones
19:58and stuff.
19:58But I love a lot of Rush stuff.
20:01And I think it's great.
20:02Like, you know, I read stuff online and I'm just, like, I get what she's going through.
20:13You know what I mean?
20:14It's, like, it's not the criticism directed at me.
20:17Well, to a certain point, yeah.
20:19But, like, she's got balls, man.
20:23And I love it.
20:24I think it's great.
20:25And everybody wants to hear Rush, man.
20:27I see people, like, oh, they should retire and all this stuff.
20:30It's, like, you know what I mean?
20:32Yeah, yeah.
20:32It's, like, who are you to tell anyone to stop, you know?
20:35Right.
20:35And, obviously, very unfortunate.
20:39And Neil was the drummer's drummer, you know?
20:43But she's great.
20:44She's, like, they wouldn't have got her if she couldn't do what Neil does, you know?
20:49And I think it's just really great.
20:53I grew up in a house with two sisters and my mom who are very empowered.
21:00You know what I mean?
21:00So, to see her go out and just put herself in this position, which is she's going to get a
21:08lot of criticism unfairly.
21:12And she's just, like, I don't care.
21:15I wake up every day in Rush.
21:18You know what I mean?
21:19So, everyone could just, you know, screw.
21:23Well, you know, it's funny because I think I might have just seen something about that recently where, you know,
21:28Getty and them, once again, they could have picked a drummer with this huge history.
21:31But they decided to go with somebody that wasn't so well known.
21:34Yeah.
21:35I think it's great.
21:36I think it's awesome.
21:37I think it's great that they did that.
21:41And like I said, I think the fact that a woman is now taking that spot, I think, is awesome
21:51for any girl that wants to be in a rock and roll band and be a drummer.
21:57Like, wow.
21:58Yeah.
21:59You couldn't get a bigger spotlight on someone to inspire you than her, right?
22:04Yeah.
22:05So, I think it's great.
22:06I think everything about it is awesome.
22:08No, that's true.
22:10I've seen some pretty wild female drummers.
22:13Haley, that was with Pop Evil, for example.
22:15I don't know if I've ever seen anyone hit harder than her.
22:17It's like, you know.
22:19Yeah.
22:20Girls like that.
22:22Who?
22:22I can't remember her name, but the drummer for Skillet.
22:27Oh, yeah.
22:27Jen Ledger.
22:28Jen Ledger.
22:29Yeah.
22:29Oh, my God.
22:30I went to see them.
22:32Hammersmith and I went to see them at a festival in North Carolina when I still lived in Atlanta.
22:37And I look at him.
22:39I go, that drum riser is going to fall because she's just bashing and it's all, and she's singing.
22:46And, yeah, good stuff.
22:48Yeah, she's great.
22:49Well, I'll tell you what.
22:50We'll wrap things up here.
22:51Of course, the Gargoyle of the Garden State comes out on June 12th.
22:55The first single is out, like we were just talking about, At War With Myself.
23:00And I wanted you to, so I'm talking to Gene Simmons on Thursday.
23:05You've met him several times or a few times or what?
23:10Yeah, several.
23:11You guys, did you guys tour with them back in, I'm trying to recall.
23:14We are the only band in history to do both of their farewell tours.
23:22Oh, okay.
23:23Because we did the one in 2000, and then we toured with them on the end of the road tour
23:32through a chunk of Europe in 22, I want to say.
23:39No, I'm sorry, not 22, 24, or end of 23.
23:44I forget when it was, but I had said that to Paul.
23:47I said, do you realize we're the only band that did both of their farewell tours?
23:50And he goes, yeah, you're right.
23:53You're right.
23:56That's so funny.
23:57You know, it's going to be, I don't know if you even tried to get to this, but it's going
24:01to be at the end of June, I think June 26th.
24:03It's going to be the 30th anniversary of when they played Tiger Stadium right here, when they put the makeup
24:08back on and they played for the first time with all four.
24:11Yeah.
24:12It was 1996.
24:16Wow.
24:16I don't know if you tried to make it out here for that.
24:19I know.
24:20I did it.
24:21I did it.
24:24Wow.
24:2430 years already.
24:26I cannot believe that.
24:27Yeah.
24:28They went on MTV and they played and they're like, this is pretty good.
24:31Let's go out to her.
24:32Yeah.
24:32Yeah.
24:33They did Unplugged, right?
24:35Then they played here.
24:36Wow.
24:37Yeah.
24:37So 30 years.
24:38But what should I ask Gene?
24:41I mean, you probably had a chance to talk to him a lot.
24:45What should you ask Gene?
24:48Ask him what type of strings he uses.
24:52I'm really curious if he even knows.
24:54Here we go.
24:55Gear questions.
24:56I don't know anything about gear.
24:57I'm really curious if he even knows.
24:59Because Snake and I actually, this weekend coming up on the 11th and 12th, are doing the Kiss Expo in
25:08Indianapolis.
25:09And Paul's going to be there.
25:11And Snake and I are getting up.
25:12I don't know whether Paul's jamming or not.
25:14But Snake and I are getting up and doing a couple of Kiss songs with Eric and Eric Singer.
25:18And yeah, a whole bunch of people getting together and jamming.
25:22It's going to be a lot of fun.
25:24Yeah, that's awesome.
25:24I know.
25:25So Gene's coming here Thursday, like I said.
25:27And then Peter Criss is going to be here in a few weeks for two days to sign records at
25:31a local record place here.
25:33Did you ever see the Kiss monument that's up in Cadillac, Michigan?
25:38Wanted to get there, but sat around late.
25:41And it was about an hour and a half from where we were.
25:44Okay.
25:46I never got up there.
25:47I would love to.
25:48All of my friends that are in bands have a picture in front of it.
25:52It's a meet.
25:53Yeah, right.
25:54You know what's so funny about that is that I was supposed to go up there on the 50th anniversary
25:58back in October.
25:59And I had computer issues for my other job.
26:02And I had to get it done.
26:04And I ended up getting too late.
26:06And I couldn't go and make it.
26:08But yeah, it's about a three or four-hour trip from my house.
26:10So I want to go up there someday.
26:12Right on.
26:13Up to Cadillac, Michigan.
26:14Well, Rachel, thanks so much for your time.
26:16We'll see you around here sometime, hopefully, in the future with either a solar project or a skid row or
26:22whatever.
26:22And good luck with Gargoyle from the Garden State.
26:25You got it, man.
26:26Thanks, dude.
26:28Check out Talking Rock with Meltdown on all podcast platforms and WRIF.com.
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