Nick Luck Joins the TDN Writers' Room

thoroughbreddailynews

Racing media personality Nick Luck joins this week's TDN Writers' Room to discuss how he got his start in horse racing and his rise to success in podcasting and broadcasting.  He also analyses the state of the sport in Europe compared to the U.S. and talks about the potential impact of the impending loss of FanDuel Racing.

Transcript

00:00:18Welcome to another edition of the TDN Writer's Room Podcast.

00:00:21My name is Bill Finley.

00:00:22I write for the Thoroughbred Daily News.

00:00:24I also co-host the Down the Stretch radio show every Saturday morning on Sirius XM Radio with Dave Johnson.

00:00:31Tune us in, Channel 85, 10 Eastern Time to 1.

00:00:35Hey, what a plug. I love that.

00:00:38How y'all doing? I'm Randy Moss with NBC Sports.

00:00:43Zoe Cabman with First Racing and First TV.

00:00:45Delighted to see smiles on both of your faces today.

00:00:50Yeah, we were a little grumpy at the start last week, but I think we got our game faces on

00:00:56for today

00:00:56because we have some great racing from last weekend to talk about.

00:01:00It was the last weekend of major preps for the Kentucky Derby, highlighted by the Bluegrass

00:01:05and, of course, the Santa Anita Derby and the Wood Memorial at Aqueduct.

00:01:10The last ever Wood Memorial to be run at the Big A, by the way.

00:01:13That's kind of a sad thought.

00:01:14But let's start off with the Bluegrass and wow.

00:01:19We got a wow performance out of Further Ado.

00:01:22Not really. That's the best way to describe it.

00:01:25You guys know this story right now.

00:01:27He won by 11 lengths, got a 106 buyer.

00:01:30Spendthrift Farms, who had the original winter book favorite for the Kentucky Derby,

00:01:35and Ted Noffy got hurt.

00:01:36Now they quite possibly could have the favorite for this year's Kentucky Derby.

00:01:42So, Zoe, I'll start off with you.

00:01:45I guess the only knock on him at this point – well, first, I want to obviously find out

00:01:50what you thought about the race, but I want you to address the one question that I'm sure

00:01:55people will be bringing up between now and the Derby.

00:01:57Is he just some sort of Keeneland freak?

00:02:00He broke his vein there by 20.

00:02:01He wins the Bluegrass by 11, and he runs outside of Keeneland.

00:02:05He seems to be a different horse.

00:02:07Of course, he's not a bad horse, but the horse that shows up at Keeneland is a monster,

00:02:12and we haven't seen that at other racetracks.

00:02:15You're not wrong.

00:02:16The son of Gunrunner, Further Ado.

00:02:18He is an absolute monster at Keeneland, and it's something that Brad Cox alluded to as

00:02:24well.

00:02:24We'd be super confident if the race was at Keeneland.

00:02:27Well, it's not at Keeneland.

00:02:29He ran fast.

00:02:30He ran the fastest time since 2018 when Essential Quality ran the race, and he won by open lens.

00:02:36It was a Gunrunner exactor.

00:02:38Actually, it wasn't a Gunrunner exactor because the second-place finisher – how do you say

00:02:42that, Otino for Chad Brown?

00:02:44He's a half-brother to Gunrunner, so it's all about Gunrunner in the Bluegrass.

00:02:49He was, you know, an eighth of a mile back, but he punched his ticket as well.

00:02:53We'll just have to wait and see what he does at Churchill Downs, but he was visually impressive

00:02:58for sure.

00:02:59You cannot knock him for that.

00:03:01Yeah, there's a lot to talk about here.

00:03:03I mean, I think he'll probably wind up being the betting favorite for the Kentucky Derby.

00:03:09You think?

00:03:10Yeah, because when you – to me, the betting public pays a lot of attention to margins

00:03:18of victory, and I think that was evident by the conclusion of the Kentucky Derby future

00:03:24wager last week, which was wrapped up before we saw the Bluegrass and the San Anita Derby

00:03:31and the Wood, but Renegade was 4-1, and Commandment was 7-1.

00:03:36That's a pretty big swing for a couple of horses that numbers-wise and, you know, most

00:03:42people thought were really, really evenly matched, and I think it's because Renegade drew off and

00:03:46won the Arkansas Derby by four lengths, and Commandment was life and death to beat the Puma

00:03:51in the Florida Derby.

00:03:52I think people seize on that kind of thing and lean more toward the big margin, and now

00:03:57you have an 11-length winner of the Bluegrass with the top buyer's speed figure, 106.

00:04:02So for those reasons, I think he'll probably wind up being the betting favorite.

00:04:07I'm not absolutely convinced about that.

00:04:09I am not a huge believer in the whole Keeneland versus Churchill Downs, that there's that much

00:04:17of a difference in the footing or anything else that would make such a gigantic difference

00:04:21going forward.

00:04:23Yes, so far, it looks on paper.

00:04:25The source's two best races have been at Keeneland, but I tend to think that's more circumstantial

00:04:30than anything else.

00:04:32There is also this to at least keep in the back of your mind, okay?

00:04:38When he won at Keeneland last year and broke his maiden by 20 lengths, they sent him to

00:04:42Churchill Downs and ran him in the Kentucky Jockey Club, and he caught up what's a weak

00:04:46field, right?

00:04:48Universe was second, Soldier and Diplomat was third.

00:04:51Neither of those two horses were good enough to make the Kentucky Derby, and yet, further

00:04:55ado, had to work really hard to beat those two horses narrowly, fairly narrowly, in a much

00:05:02slower speed figure than he had earned at Keeneland.

00:05:05And that led people to believe, okay, well, he's not as good at Churchill Downs as he was

00:05:09at Keeneland, three weeks, I think, maybe less than that, after the Kentucky Jockey Club,

00:05:16the horse got extremely sick.

00:05:19And Brad Cox is not really 100% sure if something wasn't in his system and something wasn't affecting

00:05:28his performance when he ran in the Kentucky Jockey Club.

00:05:31So, that's something to at least keep in mind as a possible explanation for why he wasn't

00:05:38nearly as impressive in the Kentucky Jockey Club as he was at Keeneland.

00:05:42The other thing I want to point out is that, and this might go the other way, this might

00:05:49go against further ado for some people.

00:05:52Like, if it was Bill Mott or some of these other trainers, let's say, the Bluegrass is

00:05:58obviously a big race to win, but the Kentucky Derby is the big enchilada, and they use these

00:06:03prep races as a stepping stone for the big race, and then really knuckle down on the horses

00:06:10when they get to Kentucky.

00:06:11They'd like to win the Bluegrass, sure, but it's not really the destination.

00:06:14In this particular case, this horse was trained to win the Bluegrass, because Spindthrift considers

00:06:23it a stallion-enhancing victory, right, in the heart of Kentucky.

00:06:29I mean, here's a son of Gunrunner, a great one win in the Bluegrass.

00:06:34And so, I don't think you can expect further ado to go to Kentucky now and take a progression,

00:06:42take a step forward.

00:06:42They're just hoping that he can hold, serve, and continue that form when he gets to Kentucky.

00:06:50That's a question.

00:06:51Can he do it or not?

00:06:53I think you bring up some good points, Randy, and also it's worth mentioning, you mentioned

00:06:58about Brad Cox.

00:06:59He has three of the top five horses on the points-earning list, so he's going to come into

00:07:07the Kentucky Derby with a very, very strong hand.

00:07:11And I also think you're underestimating your own figures.

00:07:15I think the 106 buyer figure is what's going to make him the favorite in the Kentucky Derby,

00:07:21because, you know, that's what people gravitate towards, and that's a huge number.

00:07:27Could he regress off that?

00:07:28Of course he would.

00:07:29But I think that 106, which is, who's next?

00:07:34What's the gap back to, it's like 100 or Commandment or something like that.

00:07:38Commandment, yeah, yeah.

00:07:39Yeah, I mean, that's a pretty huge gap.

00:07:40That, to me, makes me think that he is going to be the favorite.

00:07:45And here's another interesting and very unusual angle.

00:07:48Okay, so Brad Cox has got three horses.

00:07:51He's got Further Ado, Commandment, and Full Effort, who had just a recent fantastic workout.

00:07:55He's looking for a new jockey for all three, including the likely favorite for the Kentucky Derby.

00:08:02John Velasquez is going to wind up riding Further Ado in the Kentucky Derby,

00:08:07because Irad Ortiz will instead ride Renegade, the winner of the Arkansas Derby.

00:08:12And Commandment is going to wind up being ridden by Luis Saez,

00:08:16because Flavian Pratt is going to ride Emerging Market for Chad Brown in the Kentucky Derby.

00:08:23So all three of Cox's horses, oh, and Full Effort,

00:08:27is either going to be ridden by Brian Hernandez Jr. or Tyler Gafleon.

00:08:31They're trying to decide there.

00:08:32So all three of Cox's horses have got to have new riders now for the Kentucky Derby.

00:08:37Is this Randy Moss speculating, or do you have inside information?

00:08:41No, this is what's going to happen.

00:08:44Okay.

00:08:45You are always on top of these things.

00:08:48I've not seen that reported anywhere, but I will certainly trust your opinion on that.

00:08:53So maybe we have an exclusive here on the TDN Writers Room Podcast, courtesy of Randy Moss.

00:08:59Okay, so let's move on to the Santa Anita Derby.

00:09:01And the story was more, well, so happy, obviously, was the story.

00:09:06A son of Run Happy.

00:09:07Yes, a Run Happy can go a mile an eighth and win.

00:09:10Run Happy after all that effort that Jim McInvale did to promote him in the sire was shipped off to

00:09:16Korea, South Korea, of course.

00:09:19So it's not going to do him much good when it comes to that.

00:09:23I don't think anybody's going to put so happy among their top five or six or even seven or eight

00:09:29in their Kentucky Derby top tens, etc.

00:09:33But the story was more about the people.

00:09:36Mike Smith winning this race.

00:09:38If he wins the Kentucky Derby, he will be the oldest rider ever to win the Kentucky Derby.

00:09:42He is going to be the oldest rider ever to ride in the Kentucky Derby.

00:09:47And Zoe mentioned earlier the very sentimental story of trainer Mark Glatt, whose wife, Dina, died about two months before

00:09:56the race of heart failure.

00:09:57You could see, Randy, how emotional he was after the race.

00:10:02One other point I'd like to make, and then I'll throw it to you guys.

00:10:06I picked Cherokee Nation.

00:10:08The horse doesn't get out of the gate.

00:10:10He has no chance.

00:10:11He didn't get out of the gate.

00:10:12And he ran up the track.

00:10:13So there's a very talented horse, trained by perhaps one of the greatest trainers in the history of the sport.

00:10:20But they have not figured out how to get this horse out of the starting gate.

00:10:23And it cost them once again.

00:10:26Yeah, a 100 buyer speed figure for So Happy in the Santa Anita Derby, which matches Commandments buyer speed figure

00:10:34in winning the Florida Derby.

00:10:35So on numbers, So Happy fits.

00:10:39Pedigree-wise, he's a son of Run Happy, who is obviously a Breeders' Cup Sprint horse.

00:10:44Has never really, you know, excelled as a stallion at siring horses that can run longer distances.

00:10:50What I'm interested in, Zoe, though, is the difference between the way So Happy ran in the San Felipe, in

00:10:56which he was soundly beaten by Potente, and how he ran in the Santa Anita Derby, where he soundly defeated

00:11:02Potente.

00:11:02The only thing I can figure out is the way he was ridden.

00:11:07In the San Felipe, he was on the engine dueling for the lead.

00:11:12And in the Santa Anita Derby, Mike rode him a little more patiently and set him a little bit off

00:11:17the pace.

00:11:17That's the only thing I can figure out.

00:11:18But it was a much improved performance.

00:11:21Much improved.

00:11:22And basically what happened was when Cherokee Nation didn't get out the gate, Potente did.

00:11:28So Potente was grabbed immediately by Robusta, who didn't give him a break the whole way around.

00:11:34I mean, JJ tried to get the first quarter as easy as he could.

00:11:3723 was good.

00:11:39But then Haramio was breathing down his neck on Robusta.

00:11:43So had Cherokee Nation got out of the gate, it would have been Haramio on Robusta breathing down Cherokee Nation's

00:11:50neck.

00:11:50But it was Potente that took the brunt of it.

00:11:52So Happy was able to stay back there and lollygag.

00:11:56And I'll tell you one thing that was the biggest difference that I saw because I was at Santa Anita.

00:12:01Watching So Happy in the paddock was a completely different horse.

00:12:07He lost the plot prior to the San Felipe.

00:12:10He was hot.

00:12:11He was sweaty.

00:12:11He was washy.

00:12:12He was a different horse.

00:12:14I watched him walking around the paddock for the Santa Anita Derby and I'm like, wow, he looks like a

00:12:18different horse.

00:12:19He was cool, calm and collected.

00:12:21And I don't know if Mark's been schooling him more, but he was a much more relaxed individual.

00:12:26And that certainly helped him in the running of the race.

00:12:29As far as Potente, he ran a very good race indeed, in my opinion.

00:12:33He just got hooked by Robusta and he just never got a breather.

00:12:37He galloped out very well.

00:12:39And the team for Bob Baffert will move forward to the Derby as well with Potente.

00:12:44But no question that So Happy was best that day.

00:12:48He's out of a blame there.

00:12:49So you're going to get a little bit of distance there.

00:12:51She only ran three times.

00:12:52She won her first two starts sprinting.

00:12:54She was actually trained by Christophe Bermont.

00:12:56Her name was so cunning.

00:12:58She tried going long once and didn't fare too well, but she was retired pretty much soon after that.

00:13:04So we'll see what So Happy can do.

00:13:07But thoughts are with the Glatt family because we all know that Dina was watching down on Santa Anita Derby

00:13:13Day.

00:13:13And she had a big part to play in that.

00:13:16She was a fantastic person.

00:13:18You got the Mark Glatt story.

00:13:20You've also got, obviously, the Mike Smith story.

00:13:22Smith would have been the oldest rider ever to have a mount in the Kentucky Derby.

00:13:27Last year, he was supposed to ride Rodriguez, the Wood Memorial winner for Bob Baffert.

00:13:32But Rodriguez had to be scratched before the Derby.

00:13:35So Mike will now, definitely, at 59, almost 60, will be the oldest rider, older than John Court, who was

00:13:4258 when he rode long-range toddy,

00:13:45who got wiped out by maximum security in that scrum in the 2019 Kentucky Derby.

00:13:50And he's already the second-oldest jockey to win the Kentucky Derby at 52, behind Shoemaker and Ferdinand, 54, when

00:13:58he won with Justify in 2018.

00:14:00So Mike's going to be another big story as well here.

00:14:04In the Wood Memorial at the Big A, the winner was Albus.

00:14:07Congratulations to Riley Motto, recent guest on the podcast, Gainesway Guest of the Week.

00:14:13We'll now have two horses in the Kentucky Derby in Albus.

00:14:16And, of course, Incredibolt, who won the Virginia Derby.

00:14:19He came off a maiden win at Tampa Bay Downs.

00:14:23Iron Honor, the favorite for Chad Brown, ran seventh.

00:14:26Napoleon Solo didn't have a great day either.

00:14:28The Champagne winner ran fifth.

00:14:30And I'll throw this to you, Randy.

00:14:32You and Jerry Bailey were pretty tough on this race on NBC for good reason.

00:14:39Why don't you throw out those stats, those same stats that really sum up?

00:14:44And it's sad to me as a New Yorker, a guy who's primarily spent much of his career covering New

00:14:51York racing on a daily basis.

00:14:53Boy, this race is in trouble.

00:14:55It really is struggling.

00:14:57But, Randy, you had some great stats on that.

00:15:00I'd love to hear.

00:15:00I can't figure out why it's struggling so badly unless the Arkansas Derby and the Louisiana Derby have really supplanted

00:15:07the Wood Memorial in terms of desirability among the owners and trainers.

00:15:12That's the only thing I can think of.

00:15:13But the last winner, the last Wood winner to win the Kentucky Derby was 26 years ago, Fusaiichi Pegasus.

00:15:22The last horse to come out of the Wood to win the Kentucky Derby was Funnyside, who was second to

00:15:28Empire Maker in 2003.

00:15:30Since 2003, only one horse coming out of the Wood Memorial has even hit the board in the Kentucky Derby.

00:15:39And that was a fluke.

00:15:40That was Tacitus, who actually crossed the wire fourth in Maximum Securities Kentucky Derby, but got elevated to third by

00:15:49DQ, or else the Wood would be completely shut out of one, two, three finishers in the Derby.

00:15:56So you pointed out this is the last Wood Memorial to be run at Aqueduct.

00:15:59I think that can only be a good thing because it certainly can't get any worse in terms of its

00:16:06status as a Kentucky Derby prep than the Wood has become lately.

00:16:10And there's one other thing I want to say.

00:16:13I have, for the last time, said on an NBC telecast, they won't run this horse in the Kentucky Derby.

00:16:21You know, I didn't think that Pinoak Stud, who already has Incredibolt, who looks like probably a better horse than

00:16:30Albus, would go ahead and run both horses.

00:16:33I thought, especially as bad as the Wood Race was, 83 buyer speed figure.

00:16:38The horse probably has zero chance.

00:16:40So I thought they would probably keep him, you know, maybe run him in the Peter Pan, maybe run him

00:16:44in the Belmont, you know, not run him in the Derby.

00:16:49But in their defense, I don't spend hundreds of thousands and millions of dollars on yearlings, hoping against hope that

00:16:58one of them can make it into the Kentucky Derby.

00:17:00And year after year after year, you know, seeing my hopes go up in smoke, losing all this money.

00:17:05And now you finally have a chance to have not one, but two horses in the Kentucky Derby.

00:17:10You know, I don't deal in those emotions like so many breeders and owners do.

00:17:16And I certainly can't hold it against them to want to run their horse in the Kentucky Derby, because that

00:17:21now more than ever before is like the goal of an owner.

00:17:25Not just winning the Kentucky Derby, but just having a horse to be part of the Kentucky Derby experience.

00:17:34And let's face it, you've pretty much already won if you get there.

00:17:38It's so hard to even get there.

00:17:39If you've got a slot in, they want to go.

00:17:42And we have, you know, another connection with an angel on their shoulder because they lost Jim Bernhardt last year

00:17:50as well.

00:17:50So all the more reason to try and keep his memory alive by running not one, but two horses in

00:17:56the Kentucky Derby.

00:17:58As far as the Wood Memorial goes, we'll have more to talk about it last year, courtesy of T.D.

00:18:04Thornton from a couple of weeks ago, who said that it's going to be a mile and eighth now.

00:18:09So if you think.

00:18:11Round one turn.

00:18:11Yeah.

00:18:12Yeah.

00:18:12Round one turn.

00:18:13If you thought the preps couldn't get any worse, wait till next year.

00:18:16Maybe it's going to be even worse.

00:18:17It's going to be around one turn.

00:18:18A lot of people will want to run two turns at this time of year.

00:18:22At least we get some storylines out of it.

00:18:24Riley Mott, you know, I think Chief Wallaby will make it into the Derby field.

00:18:29So he'll be competing against his dad, his first ever Derby.

00:18:32He's got two horses in there.

00:18:34The second place horse, right to party.

00:18:36He's going to be 50 to one or higher.

00:18:38Chester Broman, 90 years old, coming back to the Derby for the first time since Friends Lake 22 years ago.

00:18:45You know, his wife passed away a couple of years ago, Mary.

00:18:48So there's some good storylines, at least coming out of the Wood Memorial.

00:18:51And that's, you know, that's hard.

00:18:53What number is Chief Wallaby?

00:18:55Right now, he is second on the wait list.

00:18:59Okay.

00:18:59But the horse above him in 21 is Iron Honor.

00:19:03And they're leaning toward the Preakness, perhaps.

00:19:06He was seventh in the Wood Memorial, after all.

00:19:09And there's a couple of horses, Otenho, that you mentioned, that are in the main body of the field.

00:19:15Stark Contrast.

00:19:16Does that include, does that include the, not the Europeans, but the other horses that were already in?

00:19:23Okay.

00:19:24Yes.

00:19:25That includes those.

00:19:26And a quick note before we go to break, Bill.

00:19:28Well, I would love to take credit for the jockey scoop.

00:19:31That really comes from Jerry Bailey.

00:19:35Jerry called the agents and called the jockeys and asked them what was going on.

00:19:40Called them yesterday and asked them, and the trainers, too, and asked them what was going on.

00:19:43And so Jerry's clued in, obviously, to the jockey world.

00:19:46And he's the one that came up with all that info.

00:19:49Well, we are recording this on Tuesday.

00:19:52And because I was wondering if, courtesy of Randy Moss or Jerry Bailey, I had a good scoop for the

00:19:58Thoroughbred Daily News.

00:19:59As you guys were commenting, I texted Brad Cox, said, do you have any updates on your jockey situation?

00:20:05And he said no.

00:20:07So that's the party line.

00:20:09But Jerry Bailey is obviously on top of things.

00:20:13So we'll see what happens.

00:20:16Before we go to break, you were a little premature there.

00:20:19We want to talk about the Ashland, the only grade one prep race for the Kentucky Oaks.

00:20:24And, boy, you know, I've been a big zany fan all along.

00:20:27Percy's bar was, you know, what do you make of this filly?

00:20:30She hadn't run since the Breeders' Cup Juvenile Filly.

00:20:33She missed all the preps.

00:20:34Trainer Ben Colbrook got her ready, obviously, for the Ashland.

00:20:39She looked tremendous in there, winning by two and a quarter lengths.

00:20:43I know she got a great triple on Moncada.

00:20:45The jockey cut the corner on the rail, saved some ground, whereas zany went a little bit wide.

00:20:50Crazy pace in there, 24-3, 50-1, 115-1.

00:20:55But when I put out my Kentucky Oaks top 10 poll later in the week,

00:21:01I'm going to have Percy's bar, Zoe, at number one.

00:21:05And, you know, she never looked like a loser.

00:21:07I'm sorry for the noise.

00:21:08I'm in the OBS Ocala Bets pavilion here at OBS during the break for the Breed Show.

00:21:16So if you hear some screaming and yelling, it's because the three didn't win or the four didn't win

00:21:20or they're rooting for the seven.

00:21:23She was fabulous talking about Percy's bar and a great story with the naming as well.

00:21:28I remember Percy Poole.

00:21:30He was a bartender at Keeneland for decades.

00:21:32He's poured me many a Heineken.

00:21:34I can guarantee you that.

00:21:36Now it's going back 20 years ago at Keeneland because it's been a long time since I've actually been to

00:21:41the races at Keeneland.

00:21:42So this filly is named for Percy's pool.

00:21:46Percy's bar was a great meeting spot up on the second floor grandstand, and it still is.

00:21:51So we miss you, Percy.

00:21:53She was great.

00:21:53Never looked like a loser.

00:21:56She loves Keeneland, much like Further Adieu.

00:21:58There's going to be a lot of talk of that.

00:22:00She got a perfect ride under Machado.

00:22:02She was DQ'd from her Alcibiades win last year, and this probably made up for it.

00:22:07I mean, what's better than one grade one, two, but at least she got the one.

00:22:11She looked great.

00:22:12As far as Zaney is concerned, she'll get to go to the real wire next time.

00:22:17The first wire maybe caught her out.

00:22:19She was still a little bit green in the running, but Percy's bar surely beat her on the square on

00:22:24Friday.

00:22:25Yeah.

00:22:26I think Bill probably had Zaney number one on the Oaks list.

00:22:30I thought Zaney was probably a deserving number one for the Oaks.

00:22:33A lot of people felt so as well.

00:22:35Zaney's stock drops a little bit.

00:22:37I wouldn't drop her stock as much as the margin of defeat would indicate.

00:22:43She ran a couple of lengths farther than Percy's bar because Percy's bar cut the corner,

00:22:48and Zaney was two to three wide around the two turns.

00:22:51Also, as you pointed out, the short stretch probably hurt Zaney more than it hurt Percy's bar.

00:22:57But one thing that you saw from Percy's bar is that she seems to have much more of a turn

00:23:03of foot than Zaney.

00:23:05Zaney seems to be the grinder that just keeps coming and keeps coming and lugs in sometimes,

00:23:11and they've got to straighten her out.

00:23:12It wasn't quite as bad in the Ashland.

00:23:15Where Percy's bar, just boom, when that hole opened up on the rail, I mean, she was through it and

00:23:19she was gone.

00:23:21And that sort of acceleration is what often wins races in big fields like the Kentucky Oaks.

00:23:27So that certainly would be an edge, I think, for Percy's bar.

00:23:30All right, we can't end the segment without my shedding a few tears for my dear Bookum Dano,

00:23:37who ran second in the carter.

00:23:39He ran fine, but, of course, I'm disappointed.

00:23:44And afterwards, trainer Derek Ryan said he was 85%.

00:23:49That's probably just trainer talk.

00:23:51You get those kind of things.

00:23:52He moves on now.

00:23:54Hopefully he's going to go on to the true north at Saratoga.

00:23:58But I tell you, there's another story in here.

00:24:02How about trainer Tim Kreiser, who wins this race with Point Doom,

00:24:08a horse he claimed off of Jamie Ness, of all people, for $40,000 at Penn National.

00:24:18Now, he's a grade two winner and beat my beloved Bookum Dano in the carter.

00:24:24But Dano will be back to fight another day.

00:24:26So we'll see what the year has in store for him.

00:24:29Okay, we're going to take a break.

00:24:31When we come back, we're going to have the Gaines Way guest of the week, Nick Luck.

00:24:35He was so entertaining.

00:24:36We're going to have two segments with Nick Luck.

00:24:39Stay with us.

00:24:40I do want to remind you that the TDN Writers' Room is brought to you by Keeneland.

00:24:44Well, we are just wrapping up the major derby preps,

00:24:47and there's a lot of movement on everybody's derby dozen lists.

00:24:51But one thing does not change.

00:24:53They are all loaded with Keeneland graduates.

00:24:56On TD Thornton's Top 12, you could have bought any one of the Top 6 at the 2024 Keeneland September

00:25:03sale.

00:25:03That includes Commandment, Renegade, Further Ado, The Puma, Danone Bourbon, Emerging Market,

00:25:12and moreover, eight of the Top 12 are Keeneland graduates.

00:25:15Keeneland September, the world's yearling sale is also the yearling sale for Kentucky County hopefuls.

00:25:21We'll be right back after this message from Keeneland.

00:25:25We do this so your granddaughter can work on a farm someday.

00:25:30So the stands will still be packed in 50 years.

00:25:34That's why we come to work every day.

00:25:37Obsess over every single detail.

00:25:42Because the story of racing is written one moment at a time.

00:25:46And the future of our industry deserves nothing less.

00:25:51Keeneland.

00:25:52Every moment matters.

00:25:55The fastest horse of the week brought to you by the fast sires at Windstar Farm.

00:25:59And this week, our spotlight will be on one of their new stallions for 2026.

00:26:03Straight Note Chaser, a.k.a.

00:26:06Straight Up Fast.

00:26:07That's what Windstar likes to call him for obvious reasons.

00:26:10After all, Straight Note Chaser won the Breeders' Cup Sprint.

00:26:14Got a 103 buyer for that.

00:26:15On the Preakness Undercard, he won the Maryland Sprint.

00:26:19107 for that one.

00:26:21And he won the Santa Anita Sprint Championship with a 103 buyer.

00:26:26He probably would have gotten a big buyer in Saudi Arabia as well.

00:26:29But we don't do buyers at King Abdulaziz Racecourse where he won the Riyadh Dirt Sprint.

00:26:35That's some serious speed on the part of Straight Note Chaser for a fee of only $10,000.

00:26:42Now, for the fastest horse of the week, she comes out of what I think is probably the deepest stakes

00:26:50race we've seen so far this year.

00:26:53In any division in the United States.

00:26:56And that would be from the Madison Stakes, a grade one, on Saturday on the Bluegrass Stakes Undercard.

00:27:02What a deep field that was.

00:27:05And it was taken by Eclatant by about this much over a Philly named or a mayor named Grand Job.

00:27:12A buyer's speed figure for Eclatant, a career high 109 and a 108 for Grand Job.

00:27:21Eclatant, her form went south about a year ago in the spring.

00:27:26They gave her a lot of time off.

00:27:27She came back with an allowance win at Churchill Downs in February with a 104 buyer.

00:27:33That surprised Brad Cox, the trainer.

00:27:35He said, I don't know where that number came from.

00:27:37I have no idea what to make of that.

00:27:39Now he knows what to make of it.

00:27:40Eclatant is really on a roll right now.

00:27:43And the daughter of Into Mischief has never been better.

00:27:46Our fastest horse of the week.

00:27:52And now let's bring in our Gaines Way guest of the week, racing broadcaster extraordinaire Nick Luck, coming to us

00:27:59from the UK.

00:27:59We're accustomed to telling our guests, it's almost a cliche by now.

00:28:04Thanks for taking the time out of your busy schedule to be with us.

00:28:08In Nick's case, we're talking about a man who has Luck on Sunday, the Nick Luck Daily podcast.

00:28:14Still don't know how in the hell he pulls that one off.

00:28:16In addition to his U.S. and his U.K. broadcast appearances, he's a racing representative of sorts around the

00:28:22world, hosting post-position draws, news conferences.

00:28:26In other words, Nick, thanks for taking the time out of your busy schedule to be with us.

00:28:31I know, disgracefully.

00:28:32And by the way, it's lovely to be on this podcast with two of my favorite people.

00:28:38But disgracefully, I am actually taking a few minutes out of a family vacation.

00:28:42But I don't want you to feel in any way guilty.

00:28:44I bring it on myself.

00:28:45I'm very happy to do it.

00:28:47So I'm guessing the big majority of our viewers and listeners are familiar with you primarily from your outstanding work

00:28:54over the years with NBC Sports.

00:28:56But just to get a full understanding of Nick Luck, Inc., give us an idea of all the different locales

00:29:04that your racing job has taken you to over the last few years.

00:29:10It's almost embarrassing to call it Nick Luck, Inc., because I'm not sure that's the way it's set out.

00:29:15You set out, don't you, just to try and do a decent job on the telly.

00:29:19And then things change and things evolve.

00:29:22And working with you at NBC and before that at ESPN gave me a great exposure in the U.S.

00:29:29and that kind of begat lots of other things, I suppose.

00:29:32So you then become known as being more international than just confined to your local region or country.

00:29:40And that's been a massive privilege, really, especially over the last decade.

00:29:44So this year, so 2026 alone, I've been to Magic Millions at the Gold Coast.

00:29:49And then I came to Miami to be with you for a couple of weeks to do the Pegasus.

00:29:53And then we did the Holy Bull show together.

00:29:56And then I came home and did some work here.

00:29:59And then I went to Riyadh to do the Saudi Cup.

00:30:02I may have had a Bahrain trip chucked in there at some point in the middle of that.

00:30:05I can't even remember.

00:30:06And then maybe went to Ireland for a little bit, came back to the U.K.

00:30:10And then we had Cheltenham, the Cheltenham Festival.

00:30:13And then I was in Hong Kong for their Hong Kong Derby.

00:30:16And then I came back and then I went to Dubai for the World Cup.

00:30:19And then we just about got to the end of March.

00:30:21And then after that, I had a little bit of time away.

00:30:24And then it was Grand National time.

00:30:26And then next week, I'll be off to Hong Kong again.

00:30:30And then I'll be seeing you at Derby.

00:30:31So that's pretty much how it's been so far.

00:30:34No Singapore?

00:30:36They shut down racing in Singapore before I could even get there.

00:30:40They all say it was quite instating when Kranji was going strong.

00:30:43But what a shame that was.

00:30:45Sonik, how do you manage to fit this all in and still have a family life?

00:30:50You mentioned you're having a couple of days away with your family.

00:30:53But you do have a wife, a lovely wife, Laura.

00:30:56You have three children.

00:30:58How do you juggle it?

00:30:59Does it make the marriage stronger, being away?

00:31:02How can you be a dad, a husband, and everything else,

00:31:06along with a myriad of 16 jobs across about three different continents?

00:31:12I hope the absence makes the heart grow fonder rather than just Laura thinking,

00:31:17oh, my God, he's away again when something goes wrong.

00:31:20I have an uncanny knack of being abroad with any passing catastrophe.

00:31:25But, you know, ratio-wise, it's probably not that surprising,

00:31:29given the fact that last year I think it was stretching to about 180 days.

00:31:32But the girls are great.

00:31:33They're so understanding.

00:31:34And I think they appreciate that if you enjoy what you do,

00:31:39then the likelihood of you being in better humor when you actually do walk in the door

00:31:42is probably significantly higher.

00:31:44So I think that that's a big plus and a big tick.

00:31:49And, you know, I'm lucky in that respect.

00:31:51There isn't a day when I wake up when I think I really don't want to do this or I

00:31:54don't want to do this job.

00:31:54Yeah, the podcast can be quite challenging.

00:31:58And the odd time, you have a slow news day.

00:32:00But it's amazing how much happens in this sport around the world.

00:32:03You know, this week I've been away for a few days,

00:32:07so I haven't actually been doing my own podcast this week for the last four or five days.

00:32:12And I thought it'd be fine.

00:32:13It'd be quiet.

00:32:14There's nothing that significant happening.

00:32:16I've just chosen a nice little week where, you know,

00:32:19Josh and Charlotte, who are doing it for me, can just tip away

00:32:22and nothing bad is going to hit the fan.

00:32:24And just suddenly everything happened.

00:32:26And racing is like that.

00:32:28It just pervades news like nothing else.

00:32:32So let's go biographical here.

00:32:33All right.

00:32:34How did your interest in horse racing first begin and then develop over the years?

00:32:40It definitely began through my parents.

00:32:43I mean, they had a love of horses, a real interest in the sport.

00:32:48My mother particularly.

00:32:49My mother was a good horsewoman.

00:32:52Good eventer, show jumper.

00:32:53She rode in some point-to-points.

00:32:55She trained a bit.

00:32:56Did a bit of everything, really.

00:32:57She was kind of a horsey Swiss army knife.

00:32:59And then she met my dad, who didn't really have much of an interest in racing.

00:33:02And then he kind of developed an interest in riding through her.

00:33:05And then they decided, I think, with my dad's parents in the early 70s,

00:33:10that they might be interested in having a couple of steeplechase horses.

00:33:13And they met a trainer that Zoe will remember pretty well called Josh Gifford,

00:33:17who'd been a multiple champion jockey.

00:33:19And they became great friends.

00:33:21They were all in their probably early 30s, having the time of their lives, young families.

00:33:27And they had a couple of horses who did well.

00:33:29And it got to 78.

00:33:30I was born, and he became – Josh was my godfather.

00:33:34And so I think when it got to sort of seven or eight,

00:33:36we grew up around ponies and riding, and there were always horses around.

00:33:40And I would just follow his horses avidly.

00:33:42And he was doing well at the time.

00:33:43He was the first jumps trainer in England to have 100 horses in his stable.

00:33:46Actually, probably one of the first trainers of any description to have 100 horses.

00:33:50In those days, it wasn't that common.

00:33:53And so he'd be having winners on the TV every weekend, and I'd follow the horses avidly.

00:33:57So I'd write out lists and stats and odds and jockeys and charts and this and that.

00:34:02So I sort of combined a kind of love of the sport with that slightly intense, geeky thing that most

00:34:10of us racing fans have.

00:34:12It kind of satisfies that side of our brain.

00:34:14So I always loved the cerebral side of it as well as the horsey side of it.

00:34:20And then I think as I went through my teens, I got more interested in the mainstream branch of the

00:34:26sport.

00:34:26So I would just watch all the time.

00:34:27And then unlike most of the rest of my family, I was always into the flat racing.

00:34:32I got into the pedigrees.

00:34:33And then I spent my bit of time in Kentucky when I left high school at 18 before I came

00:34:38back to England to go to university.

00:34:40So that really got me got me sort of a bit more globalized working for Joe Pagan at Kentucky Equine

00:34:46Research, I guess.

00:34:47Had it not been for that little period of time, I'm not sure the rest would have followed.

00:34:51How was it working at Keep with Joe Pagan?

00:34:55Oh, brilliant.

00:34:56What were your first thoughts on Kentucky when you got there, coming from London, England?

00:35:01Cold.

00:35:02I arrived in the fall in an ice storm.

00:35:05Oh, God.

00:35:06And I was 18 and I looked about 12.

00:35:11And, you know, I couldn't drive and I wasn't allowed to drink.

00:35:14And I was put up with a very, very sweet man, Tom Peavy, in 143 Highview Driver, Sales, Kentucky.

00:35:23And he looked after me brilliantly with his two dogs, an old corgi and a beagle and me and Tom.

00:35:31And I did my best.

00:35:32And I didn't know that many people.

00:35:34But after six or seven months, I didn't really, you know, didn't want to come home.

00:35:38I loved it.

00:35:38So it was it was an education.

00:35:41It taught me how to write.

00:35:42It taught me how to meet deadlines.

00:35:44It taught me not to expect too much, but to keep working hard.

00:35:50And then I spent five years at university forgetting all that before I before I started back again.

00:35:56What did you study in university?

00:35:58Didn't you do some acting?

00:35:59Didn't you want to get on the stage?

00:36:00I was all through school and all through my my undergraduate and postgraduate degrees.

00:36:05I was doing quite a lot of acting.

00:36:07I mean, I met Laura doing doing plays at uni.

00:36:11And did I did I did I actually want to do it professionally?

00:36:15I definitely think there was probably an 18 month period where I thought quite seriously about it.

00:36:19I'd stretched out education for long enough by that point.

00:36:23And I thought I've got.

00:36:27I don't think I've ever said this before.

00:36:29But my my parents split up when I was 19 or 20 and I'd been at university about a term.

00:36:38And I think that that kind of enabled me to get away with quite a lot for the next few

00:36:42years,

00:36:44probably without the kind of close scrutiny that you might normally have at that point in your life.

00:36:48So whilst I did emerge with a couple of degrees,

00:36:53I probably could have just kept kept kept stringing it out as long as I wanted.

00:36:57But then I did sort of have a moment of realization that I probably ought to go and get some

00:37:01gainful employment.

00:37:02So and also I by by luck or whatever, by happenstance, I had I had acted with people who went

00:37:11on to have like really illustrious careers.

00:37:13And I think I was kind of disabused of the notion I was any good or relative to them fairly,

00:37:18fairly early on, really.

00:37:20So, yeah. So I ended up here.

00:37:24I can totally picture you on stage in a play.

00:37:27I've been trying to picture you since you're on holiday with the kids plummeting down a steep vertical water slide,

00:37:33you know, down down to a treacherous ending.

00:37:35And now I'm picturing you when you're when you tell us about your upbringing on horseback.

00:37:42So you'd be perfectly comfortable.

00:37:44Maybe not on a racy thoroughbred, but on the but on the back of a horse, I would be perfectly

00:37:50comfortable.

00:37:50I mean, I was rubbish, really, as a rider.

00:37:54I mean, my my mom was pretty talented.

00:37:56My brother rides every day and he's pretty good.

00:37:58He's just funny enough.

00:37:59He trained his first point to point winner last weekend, which was a bit which was a bit of a

00:38:03kick.

00:38:03He just decided to decided to train, train a couple of horses and he'd had five seconds, I think, from

00:38:0914 runners.

00:38:10So he was waiting for the first winner.

00:38:11So he came.

00:38:11He was very excited.

00:38:12That was nice.

00:38:14He was always better rider than I was.

00:38:16So but I the odd time I get on a horse, I still enjoy it as long as you know,

00:38:22as long as they're sufficiently unfit.

00:38:28I remember we did a we did an open in Saudi Arabia about three years ago with Michelle.

00:38:34And obviously, she's a very accomplished and is as brave as a lion and would would would probably get on

00:38:42just about any horse that was was given to her.

00:38:44And they said, oh, no, very, very quiet.

00:38:46These two Arabian horses arrived by trailer in the middle of these sand dunes.

00:38:51I promise you in the middle of nowhere in the desert.

00:38:55It's about 100 degrees.

00:38:57And they said, oh, no, no, we give them give them a bit of something to keep them quiet.

00:39:02I'd be absolutely fine.

00:39:03Well, anyway, they they pulled the back down of this trailer and these two, they came out trumpeting.

00:39:11I thought, oh, my God, I'm not going on that.

00:39:14I'm not getting on that.

00:39:16Anyway, Michelle straight on.

00:39:19I think Katie, one of our assistant producers or producers, gets on the other one.

00:39:25She's a kind of handy horse horsewoman.

00:39:27Anyway, this thing's an absolute lunatic for about an hour and she'd ridden it in 110 degree heat for about

00:39:32an hour, by which point she got off it.

00:39:34And it's like I said, that's fine.

00:39:38I'll get on now.

00:39:40Thank you very much.

00:39:43So I hopped on.

00:39:44It was fine.

00:39:44We did the opener.

00:39:45We filmed the opener as I like Lawrence of Arabia and so, you know, long flowing linen shirt coming over

00:39:51the sand dune.

00:39:52And of course, then I couldn't get the thing out of first gear.

00:39:54And I'm there saying, here we are in Korea.

00:40:01Yeah, I heard all about that from Michelle.

00:40:04So we I'm an avid listener to the Nick Luck Daily.

00:40:08It keeps me informed on pretty much everything that's going on in Europe, which means that I don't have to

00:40:12read a gazillion publications, which is great.

00:40:15But how did it come about?

00:40:16I know it came about during COVID.

00:40:19And were you surprised how well received it's been?

00:40:23Because it's fabulous.

00:40:25You're very kind.

00:40:26And like all these things, it was sort of it was one of those where you just have to do

00:40:32one and see and see what happens.

00:40:35So I've been thinking about it, actually, had the idea in 2019.

00:40:40And I remember Brittany and I were sort of thinking about trying to do something international with Jason Richardson in

00:40:47Australia.

00:40:48And it kind of got to first base, but it didn't really get any further.

00:40:51And then I thought and thought and thought and thought, well, could I do something daily, like a daily news

00:40:58service?

00:40:59And it could be 10 or 15 minutes and it could just be very short and, you know, very straightforward.

00:41:05A bit like New Statesman, Spectator, Times, Redbox, all those sort of things we're doing here for news and politics.

00:41:14And there wasn't really a racing service like that.

00:41:15So I thought, well, maybe I could do it and maybe I'd need a bit of sponsorship to get it

00:41:19going.

00:41:20And then it got to it got to the sort of fourth month of lockdown when actually you were struggling

00:41:28for stuff to do and wanted to keep the wool from the door.

00:41:32And Laura just said to me, just get on and do it.

00:41:34You keep talking about it.

00:41:35Just do it.

00:41:36Just record an episode.

00:41:38So that literally I just did one day on the 1st of July 2020.

00:41:42I recorded episode one.

00:41:44And I think today we recorded episode 1490.

00:41:49So it is you can't.

00:41:51And then I couldn't stop.

00:41:52Like it was it once the ball was rolling, I couldn't I couldn't very well stop.

00:41:55And then, you know, it sort of picked up and it ended up being, you know, the episodes ended up

00:42:00being half an hour, 45 minutes and taking taking in an awful lot of content from from around the world,

00:42:07which I really enjoyed.

00:42:08And I think without doing that, that it's probably led to a lot of opportunities I wouldn't otherwise have had.

00:42:14I'm especially in in especially, I think, in Australia and in Hong Kong as well.

00:42:19I must say, I particularly enjoy your banter with Matt Chapman.

00:42:25Yeah, Matt's come on board like relatively recently, I suppose.

00:42:31But yeah, he's all my regular guests, all my regular plus ones are all very, very different.

00:42:40You know, some of them have a really hard news background.

00:42:44Some don't.

00:42:46They're from all different parts of England and Ireland and sometimes from further afield as well.

00:42:50So I think hopefully they all have a slightly different constituency.

00:42:55So they will appeal to a slightly different group of people.

00:43:01The TD and Riders Room brought to you by our friends at the PHBA, the Pennsylvania Horse Breeders Association.

00:43:07We are right in the heart of breeding season.

00:43:10And if you're a breeder, you probably know this.

00:43:12If you don't, you certainly should.

00:43:14That Pennsylvania is a place you should seriously consider to own and breed in 2026.

00:43:21And here's why.

00:43:22If you breed to a Pennsylvania stallion, you're eligible for 40% in breeders awards.

00:43:29And up to 40% in owner's bonuses.

00:43:32You're also eligible for those lucrative 2026 Pennsylvania sired, Pennsylvania bred stallion steak.

00:43:39So how much money are we actually talking about here?

00:43:42Over the last 13 years, the PHBA breeding fund distributed in an average of $27.5 million in awards, owner

00:43:53bonuses, and restricted race purses.

00:43:56So if you'd like to collect some of this booty, you want more information on the PA Bread program, just

00:44:02visit pabread.com or call Brian Sanfratello at 610-444-1050.

00:44:09The Pennsylvania breeding program is the best program in the country.

00:44:15The stallion awards, the owner bonuses, also the restricted races and the stakes races for Pennsylvania breeds.

00:44:22Last year, 321 Pennsylvania breeders earned breeders awards.

00:44:2722 Pennsylvania breeders earned over $100,000.

00:44:31We have the best program in the country.

00:44:35Take advantage of the fantastic program that we have.

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00:44:41On this week's edition of First Things First, our own Michelle Yu caught up with Mark Glatt, the winning trainer

00:44:46of So Happy.

00:44:53I'm joined right now by Mark Glatt.

00:44:56Mark, we know it's been a rough 2026 losing your wife, Dina.

00:45:00I know your family is here supporting you and all of Santa Anita has been here supporting you.

00:45:04What does this moment feel like right now?

00:45:08It's pretty hard to describe.

00:45:10We have had an overwhelming amount of support and it's helped us get through this very, very tough time.

00:45:19She got that horse there today.

00:45:22And I'm just so thankful to the owners for giving me an opportunity.

00:45:28They are big contributors to my stable.

00:45:33They're not really owners.

00:45:35They've become lifelong friends.

00:45:37And just really appreciate their friendship.

00:45:40Since Dina's passing, they've called me every night.

00:45:44They've flown out here.

00:45:46They've just been tremendous amongst a lot of other people.

00:45:49But they truly are friends and I couldn't ask it to happen for better people.

00:45:54I saw your family here on site too.

00:45:56At least two of your kids came by.

00:45:58What was it like celebrating this with them?

00:46:00It's the Santa Anita Derby.

00:46:02I mean, if you can't get excited about that.

00:46:04But obviously, there's a little more meaning to it given the recency of our lives.

00:46:11And I'm just glad to have them here and enjoy the win with everyone.

00:46:15We're so happy for you, Mark.

00:46:17Congratulations.

00:46:18Hear from everybody.

00:46:18We love you.

00:46:20I love everybody else too.

00:46:26Great to hear from Mark.

00:46:27Certainly tough, tough times with the loss of his wife, Dina.

00:46:31And our thoughts are with him every step of the way.

00:46:34So happy.

00:46:34Look really, really good winning the Santa Anita Derby.

00:46:38All right.

00:46:39Let's talk about Santa Anita.

00:46:40We're on a little bit of a break right now.

00:46:42But we'll be back with a three-day weekend on Friday, April the 17th.

00:46:47We'll see you then.

00:46:49I think I know which direction you would go with this, but how do you view the differences

00:46:55in broadcasting horse racing in the U.S. as opposed to doing it in the U.K.?

00:47:01Yeah.

00:47:02I mean, you're the person I broadcast horse racing with the longest in the U.S.

00:47:07And actually, probably full stop, come to think of it.

00:47:11I'm not sure I've been with anyone else since 2003.

00:47:14Shall I leave the room?

00:47:16I know.

00:47:16No, he's a bit of a legend, though, isn't he, to be fair?

00:47:22It's been a long time.

00:47:23He's a bit of a legend.

00:47:27It's much more free-flowing in the U.K., I would suspect.

00:47:32Looser.

00:47:33Looser, I would say.

00:47:34Looser, yeah.

00:47:37More stuff gets done on the hoof.

00:47:38It is a little bit looser.

00:47:40I think, particularly on a network show in the U.S., there is more formatting.

00:47:49You have to be more timely, a little more on point.

00:47:53Amy Zimmerman, her great line is that I never saw a red light that I didn't run.

00:47:59But hopefully I'm getting better after 20-whatever years.

00:48:02I'm maybe improving slightly.

00:48:05And I'm very grateful for the latitude that you all give me.

00:48:09But, yeah, being taught brevity and precision and being able to ask a question rather than just, you know, deliver

00:48:16a statement,

00:48:17I think is something that high-level American television is always going to teach you.

00:48:22And, you know, being a part of a show like the Kentucky Derby is, I think, always going to be

00:48:28my biggest adrenaline rush

00:48:31and my biggest thrill because your margin for error is so much less and the sense of occasion is so

00:48:40much greater.

00:48:41What's your favorite thing to do?

00:48:43I mean, you're on the desk, you're running around, like, if you could pick one favorite thing to do, what

00:48:48would it be?

00:48:50Oh, that is a good question.

00:48:54I suppose everyone who has done all those things habitually says they want to host the show

00:49:03because they want to be the kind of, you know, person directing the traffic.

00:49:07And it's your kind of overarching ambition when you're younger.

00:49:10And I got that opportunity quite early on in my broadcasting life.

00:49:14So to an extent, that would always have been the kind of default answer.

00:49:20And I got to host Channel 4 when it had the network coverage for several years

00:49:24and do the Grand National and Channelman Ascot and so forth.

00:49:27But I think as time's gone on, I appreciate the mechanics of that reporting role a bit more

00:49:34and what you can do with it. And certainly with NBC, you know, I hosted a show with Randy and

00:49:41Jerry the other day

00:49:41and we had great fun on the desk and I would do that anytime they asked and be very happy

00:49:45to do it.

00:49:46And, you know, of course, everybody wants to do that.

00:49:49But doing the walkover at the derby or doing those paddock walkabouts on the hoof or, you know,

00:49:55or especially when something that really isn't planned occurs or when something goes awry,

00:50:03when something goes wrong or it all hits the fan.

00:50:08A tea party in the car?

00:50:10Yeah, well, all that stuff.

00:50:12But when your instinct has to take over and it's something you can't plan,

00:50:19that's probably where I think that I've done some of my better stuff.

00:50:26You've been a part, obviously, of the cream of the crop of racing telecasts,

00:50:31racing events in the United States.

00:50:32On a regular day-to-day basis, do you think horse racing is more of a mainstream sport in the

00:50:43UK

00:50:44than it is in the US? What's your sense there?

00:50:47Yeah, I think so.

00:50:48And I think more to the point, it's probably even more of a mainstream sport, say, in Australia than it

00:50:54is in the UK.

00:50:56If you're talking about proximity to national psyche, it's probably, you know,

00:50:59I mean, you kind of have to bet without Hong Kong, don't you?

00:51:03Because Hong Kong's a little bit different, you know.

00:51:07But in terms of proximity to national psyche, it's probably Japan, Australia, you know,

00:51:14Ireland, UK, France, America.

00:51:16Well, Ireland, UK, America, France.

00:51:18Well, that kind of order, isn't it?

00:51:21Yeah.

00:51:22And I know on your podcast, you deal with a lot of the issues, the current issues in the sport.

00:51:26Unfortunately, Zoe and I on this podcast have to constantly deal with things like, you know,

00:51:32the CAW thing, the shrinking full crop in the United States, HISA, HISA versus CDI.

00:51:40You know, what do you see as the biggest challenges in the UK?

00:51:45Are there any similarities there?

00:51:47Oh, huge challenges.

00:51:49Yeah.

00:51:49I mean, funding and fixtures is the biggest challenge.

00:51:51You know, how the sport really sees itself moving forward.

00:51:59Is it a sport that is going to excel by, you know, trying to burnish its biggest assets

00:52:06and hope that it can survive top down so that you're really throwing everything into your big festivals,

00:52:12your top festivals and that you're not, you know, you're relying on those as major commercial events

00:52:20and you drive all the money into that and then their commercial success will trickle down to the grassroots

00:52:28and enable the grassroots to succeed.

00:52:30You know, the sort of Premier League football argument, you know, and the breakaway Premier League.

00:52:35But, you know, the offshoot, the commensurate benefits of that will then permeate down through the lower leagues.

00:52:41Or do you exist with the funding model that you currently have, which is effectively about volume

00:52:46and about how much revenue you get from selling each race as a streaming product, as a wagering product?

00:52:56And is that actually what should be sustaining the sport?

00:53:01And it's trying to find that balance.

00:53:03And I think that philosophical argument has never been more intense now in British racing

00:53:08because, you know, the departure of the not very longstanding British Horse Racing Authority,

00:53:15Chairman Lord Allen, who came in to try and shake things up and commercialise the central body of the sport,

00:53:20has meant that there's been a fair bit of bloodletting and that might be productive

00:53:25because it looks as though the larger race courses, the larger independent race courses,

00:53:28like Ascot, Goodwood, Newbury, York, and as well as the Jockey Club,

00:53:33which is obviously a group of fairly significant race courses, are trying to change the status quo

00:53:39and trying to say that actually this should be a sport that is about quality, about the customer,

00:53:45about making the big events even better and try and compete on an international stage rather than,

00:53:51and somebody said the other day, pilot high, sell it cheap.

00:53:53But the truth of it is, the broad base of the product underneath that,

00:53:58it's going to pilot high and sell it probably a bit more expensively than it's actually worth

00:54:01until somebody realises it's too expensive.

00:54:03Nick, we've got a massive shake-up going on over here,

00:54:06and you will have heard the news about Fangio slowly winding down.

00:54:10A lot of our friends, a lot of our colleagues are going to be out of work.

00:54:13What are your thoughts on the Fangio situation and what it could genuinely mean to U.S. racing?

00:54:20Because it's not good, in my opinion.

00:54:24Well, somebody wrote that it was probably a very difficult decision to wind down Fangio TV production,

00:54:31and I thought the sad truth of it is that for somebody, it probably wasn't a very difficult decision,

00:54:37and that it was a decision that was made all too easily with the stroke of a pen,

00:54:41because it's not as though you and I were sitting, Zoe, you know,

00:54:45whenever we last saw each other three or four months ago,

00:54:47it's not like you and I were sitting having a drink going,

00:54:49well, Fangio's in trouble, isn't it?

00:54:51That won't be here in a year.

00:54:52I mean, could we have foreseen that?

00:54:54I don't think so.

00:54:55Normally with these things, we've got a pretty good idea.

00:54:57We can feel it in our bones.

00:54:58We can see the way the wind's blowing.

00:55:00I don't think anybody thought that that would happen as soon as it did,

00:55:03even when Flutter's share price was tanking and tanking and tanking and tanking.

00:55:07And you know that's the root of it.

00:55:09If that weren't the case, then this wouldn't have happened.

00:55:13But, you know, the company is so huge, and Fangio is a small part of it,

00:55:18and horse racing within Fangio is an even smaller part of that.

00:55:23And somebody's looked at a balance sheet and gone,

00:55:25well, this production's quite expensive relative to what we're getting out of this.

00:55:29Our share price is doing this.

00:55:30It's a stroke of a pen job, isn't it?

00:55:32Yeah.

00:55:33For somebody.

00:55:33I'm not saying that person's a bad person, but that is what they're paid to do.

00:55:39But they're not appreciating the wider consequences of that.

00:55:44And to what extent has the sport, you know, failed to realize that being a tiny part of an entity

00:55:54like that

00:55:54is not a very secure place to be?

00:55:59Well, if I haven't said this, thanks for taking the time out of your family vacation,

00:56:03out of your holiday to be with us.

00:56:06I'm like the odd person out here.

00:56:07I'm the only one not speaking King's English.

00:56:09So since I've got you here, let me give you a word and tell me how you would pronounce it.

00:56:15All right.

00:56:15P-U-M-A.

00:56:18Puma.

00:56:19Puma.

00:56:21Thank you, Nick.

00:56:24Zoe, thanks you very much for that.

00:56:26I kept telling Randy, he keeps saying Puma.

00:56:29I'm like, Randy, there's no poo in Puma.

00:56:33Puma.

00:56:33The Puma.

00:56:35I'm like, it's Puma.

00:56:36All right.

00:56:37Now that we've solved that one, Nick, we'll see you at Churchill Downs.

00:56:40See you at Churchill.

00:56:42Thanks, Nick.

00:56:42Take care.

00:56:44Take care.

00:56:45Our guest of the week, the Honorable Nick Luck, sponsored by Gainsway, the home to Muth,

00:56:51who is standing his second year at the farm.

00:56:54Breeders all over the bluegrass are now welcoming the first foals of Muth.

00:56:58And if they look anything like their dad, those breeders are going to be pretty happy.

00:57:02Muth, after all, was a $2 million sales topper himself at OBS.

00:57:07He was a TD and rising star in his career debut and was the only stallion to retire in 2025

00:57:13to win a grade one stakes as a two-year-old and a three-year-old.

00:57:17Just like, incidentally, his sire, Good Magic.

00:57:21Muth stands at Gainsway for a fee of $30,000.

00:57:26Say hello to Muth.

00:57:29The single most important factor in predicting sire success is those who have consistent,

00:57:35high-class form, and it's even enhanced if they have that form as two-year-olds as well.

00:57:41By our calculations, Muth has the number one chance of sire success of any of the 30 or

00:57:46so sires that retired to Kentucky in 2025.

00:57:49He has the credentials that we're looking for when we predict sire success.

00:57:56With some of the fullest fields in the country and quality racing year-round,

00:58:01there's never been a better time to reap the rewards of breeding and racing in Kentucky.

00:58:08Purse money in Kentucky is at an all-time high,

00:58:11as is average purse per race, outpacing California, Florida, and New York.

00:58:17Kentucky Breads.

00:58:18Breathe them.

00:58:19Raise them.

00:58:21Race them.

00:58:22We all win.

00:58:26On a past TV and Writer's Room podcast, we discussed in detail the Dubai World Cup,

00:58:33Magnitude's victory over Forever Young.

00:58:35We didn't tackle it from this angle, though.

00:58:38Kentucky Breads.

00:58:40Magnitude, a Kentucky Bread, taking down that $12 million purse.

00:58:44The Dubai Golden Shaheen.

00:58:47Remember, Ben Tornado was upset in that race by Dark Saffron.

00:58:51Dark Saffron is a Kentucky Bread.

00:58:54And the Godolphin Mile went to Banishing, who is also a Kentucky Bread.

00:59:00There's a trifecta for you at Maidon.

00:59:02An extra congratulations to the breeders of magnitude

00:59:05on earning a Kentucky Thoroughbred Breeders Incentive Fund Award of $7,500.

00:59:10And, of course, for breeding an international grade one winner.

00:59:14Kentucky Breads.

00:59:15Breed them.

00:59:16Raise them.

00:59:17Race them.

00:59:18Especially in Dubai.

00:59:19We all win.

00:59:21Well, it seems like you have to be a lawyer to cover horse racing these days,

00:59:25or at least have a law degree.

00:59:27And thank goodness T.D. Thornton at the Thoroughbred Daily News takes care of all these sort of stories

00:59:32because they give me a headache, to be honest with you.

00:59:35But the latest was Churchill Downs won a round in court in its ongoing dispute with Haiza,

00:59:41where a judge rules that the assessment fee should be based,

00:59:45should not be based on purse weight methodology, called that arbitrary and capricious and therefore unlawful,

00:59:53and that going forward, the fees will be based on starts-based.

01:00:01These two companies also don't like each other very much, which is very evident.

01:00:07In one of the first go-rounds, Haiza accused Churchill Downs of freeloading.

01:00:12Now Churchill has come back and said that this is indicative of Haiza's ongoing fiscal management.

01:00:20Randy, the last time we talked about that, I was impressed of your grasp of the situation.

01:00:25So I will go to you first.

01:00:28And what do you make of all this, other than the fact that it looks like a big victory for

01:00:33Churchill Downs?

01:00:34Well, my first question would be, what impressed you about my grasp of the situation?

01:00:38Because I totally don't understand this stuff.

01:00:41You understand it a little bit better than I do.

01:00:43Like I do, like I do, you know, it's not, obviously, it's not a surprise that Churchill wins in court

01:00:55when you see the way the rule was written, the way the Haiza regulations were written to begin with,

01:01:04which I didn't know.

01:01:05It came out after the fact.

01:01:06And when I read those about how the assessments were supposed to be made in the Haiza mandate,

01:01:13then you kind of say, oh, well, okay, I can see why a judge might rule that way.

01:01:20Now a couple of interesting things.

01:01:22What happens is, I think you pointed this out last week.

01:01:24One of you did.

01:01:25Zoe, I think you might have.

01:01:26All these tracts that paid their dues based on the framework that's now been declared invalid.

01:01:35I mean, now do they go back and say, okay, we need a credit or, you know, we need, you

01:01:41know,

01:01:42we need to readjust ourselves.

01:01:44That certainly wouldn't be good for Haiza.

01:01:47So what, I wonder what's going on in that regard.

01:01:49But no, and it's also, obviously, I'm not suggesting in any way that Churchill Downs didn't win the case on

01:01:54merits,

01:01:55but it's certainly not surprising to see a Kentucky court, as we've seen, rule in favor of Churchill Downs.

01:02:04It shouldn't be a surprise to anyone that Churchill Downs wins a court case.

01:02:09They must have a docket of lawyers on their payroll.

01:02:12They are.

01:02:13When it comes to lawyer-like things, Churchill Downs has it all.

01:02:18If they're making a case for something, you can guarantee they're pretty sure they're going to win.

01:02:23So not surprised at all, and I wouldn't be surprised to see other racetracks come after Haiza and say,

01:02:30hey, how about we get some money back here?

01:02:33We already paid.

01:02:35You know, where's the payback?

01:02:36Or we're not going to pay this quarter because we paid too much last quarter.

01:02:41I don't know.

01:02:42It's still going to be a mess.

01:02:44Yeah.

01:02:44You know, I've said this before.

01:02:46I said it a few weeks ago.

01:02:47We've talked about this topic a lot, I guess.

01:02:49Because I don't think starts-based fees are really entirely fair either.

01:02:55No, they're not.

01:02:56It should be what kind of money you're throwing around.

01:02:59You've got these little tracks that run 10-horse fields all the time.

01:03:03For them, they're going to be paying as much as Churchill Downs.

01:03:06That's not fair.

01:03:07I don't think it's fair either.

01:03:09And I think I said before, I think it should be based in part on starts,

01:03:13but also modified by the handle that these races generate.

01:03:19Per-race handle.

01:03:21And that way, you're not asking a small-time racetrack who does a good job

01:03:25in field size to pay as much as a major racetrack like Churchill Downs.

01:03:30But you know that Churchill Downs would be against that.

01:03:35Niagara would be against that.

01:03:36You know, the big dogs out there who don't really, I don't want to sound harsh,

01:03:41but don't really care that much about, you know, they're worried about their

01:03:44bottom line and their stock prices.

01:03:46And rightfully so.

01:03:47They're not going to care that it penalizes a little guy.

01:03:50They're going to do what's best for their bottom line,

01:03:52and that's what they're going to be in favor of.

01:03:54So moving on to other news off track.

01:03:56And normally, I don't write about this for Thoroughbred Daily News.

01:04:01They put out these, Equibase puts out these economic indicators.

01:04:04But I had to pick up on the story for the first quarter of 2026.

01:04:10Handle was down by 12.35% in March.

01:04:15That's the worst month that the sport has had since December of 2024,

01:04:21when you're talking about the percentage of decline in handle.

01:04:25Now, to be fair, there were five Saturdays in March 2025 and four in March 2026.

01:04:33That is a big factor because people obviously bet more on Saturdays

01:04:36than they do on a Thursday afternoon.

01:04:38But more alarming, Handle is down 7.11% on the year.

01:04:44Some TDN readers commented on the story saying that,

01:04:49well, this had to do a lot with all the bad weather in the Northeast.

01:04:53Well, that's not really true.

01:04:55I mean, to a point, maybe it's true.

01:05:00But the number of races run in the country was down only 3.22%.

01:05:07And, you know, it's an ongoing trend.

01:05:11There's no reversals.

01:05:12But when you see the 1% or 2% declines, you don't get that alarmed.

01:05:16But when you see that it's down by 7% for the first three months,

01:05:21I think that is a cause for alarm.

01:05:23And I'm going to say the same thing that I've probably said 150 times on this show, Randy.

01:05:29I think we're seeing the effects of CAW wagering

01:05:33and that they're driving players out of the game.

01:05:35I really think that's what this is all about.

01:05:38Could be.

01:05:39Could have.

01:05:39I wouldn't argue with that at all.

01:05:41I also think it might be in part due to the overall U.S. economy

01:05:47and concerns about, you know, gasoline prices and inflation

01:05:52and, you know, the war in Iran and all this other stuff that, you know,

01:05:57that's causing prices to surge in the United States.

01:06:00And maybe some people are retrenching a little bit on their, you know,

01:06:05entertainment dollars that they're spending on betting on the horse races.

01:06:09That might be a part of it also.

01:06:11I don't know.

01:06:11It's concerning.

01:06:14Well, let's hope that the trend does not continue and that we have some better news.

01:06:19So last week on the show, we read some comments from listeners slash viewers

01:06:25that posted on YouTube.

01:06:26And that was a lot of fun.

01:06:28And, as a matter of fact, it seemed to pick up because we got some more comments this week.

01:06:32And we encourage people, this is, if our people that are tuning into the podcast

01:06:36will continue to do this, I think we'll make it a regular feature of the show.

01:06:40You can, the easiest way to do it is watch the podcast on YouTube.

01:06:43Then you could put comments down underneath there.

01:06:47So we got some interesting ones.

01:06:49And, Randy, I'll throw the first one to you.

01:06:52There's a couple for you, by the way.

01:06:54But this is from Free Speech 11.

01:06:58And since you're a TV guy, I want to throw this out to you.

01:07:01And, of course, Zoe, feel free to comment as well.

01:07:03Is YouTube a viable platform to broadcast live horse racing?

01:07:08And, of course, this issue comes up with what we talked about last week with them

01:07:13essentially pulling the plug on FanDuel.

01:07:15Is YouTube an option?

01:07:18As much time as I spend on YouTube, I would love to see Thoroughbred Racing live,

01:07:23Thoroughbred Racing show up on YouTube.

01:07:25Look, I mean, more and more people are now using YouTube as their TV purveyor of choice.

01:07:33YouTube TV, YouTube television.

01:07:35It's huge right now.

01:07:36So, yeah, I think given the way broadcast in general is transitioning nowadays,

01:07:44YouTube, Netflix, Amazon, you know, if there is a desire among any of those companies

01:07:52to televise horse racing, I think it would be a fantastic option

01:07:56or maybe a less expensive option for someone to put horse racing on YouTube.

01:08:03And we already have America's Day at the Races.

01:08:05I don't have terrestrial TV, so I can watch America's Day at the Races on YouTube.

01:08:11That whole show is on there.

01:08:14So, we already have that, which is going to be fantastic moving forward

01:08:18now that we've lost FanDuel.

01:08:21Delighted to see that Todd Shropp picked up a role at America's Day at the Races.

01:08:26And that was very smart of them because Todd has a very big following.

01:08:29So, he's going to take a lot of that TVG money over to Naira for Naira Betts

01:08:34with their America's Day at the Races.

01:08:35I believe he's signed up for pretty much all summer long.

01:08:39He starts, I believe, this week on Thursday on America's Day at the Races.

01:08:44Yeah, so it was a two-week run.

01:08:45Yeah.

01:08:46I know some of the guys at FanDuel were saying, oh, they did him a favor

01:08:49because he was the first one out the door, so he got hired straight away.

01:08:54So, Todd's come up smelling like roses.

01:08:56And I love Todd, so good for him.

01:08:57One of the real nice guys.

01:08:58One of the real nice guys out there.

01:09:00It's also worth noting, I did a story in the TDN last week,

01:09:03that they didn't make any specific commitments,

01:09:07but the New York Racing Association slash Fox said they're very aware of the FanDuel situation

01:09:14and that they are looking into it.

01:09:16I don't think they're ever going to be what FanDuel was.

01:09:19I don't think they're going to show the fourth race from Mahoning Valley on a Tuesday afternoon,

01:09:24but they are very interested in increasing their racing coverage

01:09:29through their America's Day at the Races platform.

01:09:32Okay, so this goes on.

01:09:33This is a question from Billy Cain slash X5U.

01:09:37And I think Billy Cain makes a good point that,

01:09:40why hasn't anyone mentioned RTN Racetrack Television?

01:09:43He says, I've been a subscriber for years,

01:09:45and they have all the thoroughbred tracks live racing worldwide,

01:09:50except the Oaks and the Derby the rest of the year.

01:09:54Whatever track you wish to watch, you receive the tracks.

01:09:56And he makes a good point.

01:09:57I believe you have to pay a fee.

01:09:59I meant to look that up, but that's not free, whereas FanDuel was.

01:10:02I don't think it's a prohibitive cost.

01:10:05But I would say, yeah, that's a good option.

01:10:07But I would say I don't believe, and someone correct me,

01:10:10because I'm not a subscriber, that they don't have any commentary.

01:10:14I think they're just the racetrack feeds.

01:10:16So that, again, is not going to be something that's going to really fill the void left by,

01:10:23you know, the real talented people that work for FanDuel commenting on the races.

01:10:28But yeah, Zoe, I mean, maybe I should get a racetrack television subscription.

01:10:33It sounds like a great option.

01:10:35RTN is great.

01:10:36You never miss a race.

01:10:37You never miss a race, but you do have to pay.

01:10:39But you will get every track other than Derby and Oaks, because Randy holds all that on NBC.

01:10:47I was a subscriber to the original racereplays.com, and then I transitioned over to RTN.

01:10:56It's all done by Todd Roberts and his company in Las Vegas.

01:10:59And the great thing about RTN is you can get America's Day at the Races.

01:11:03You can get the live feed of America's Day at the Races, as well as just the simulcast feeds from

01:11:09each racetrack.

01:11:10And you can go international to everywhere.

01:11:14I mean, all these little tracks in Australia that you've never heard of, and you can watch their simulcast feeds.

01:11:21You can watch all their races.

01:11:22Royal Ascot, you can go.

01:11:24You can see races anywhere.

01:11:26So to me, and it's not free.

01:11:28It depends on how, you know, how much you want to subscribe to.

01:11:34But it's a great source for me to keep up with racing around the world.

01:11:40So this is a question from Daniel Moretti.

01:11:43And he said, maybe Mike Rapoli can take over FanDuel's infrastructure and create a new channel.

01:11:49And Daniel, in all due respect, no, that's not going to happen.

01:11:53And here's why.

01:11:55Mike Rapoli's heart is in the right place, but people forget he's a businessman.

01:11:59Not only is he a businessman, he's one of the most successful entrepreneurs in the history of the world, literally,

01:12:06with a guy starting from scratch and becoming a billionaire.

01:12:10I don't think in a million years he would ever do this because it's a money-losing proposition.

01:12:14And this is the reason why the FanDuel is not going to be FanDuel TV very soon in the future.

01:12:21Mike is not in the business of taking over businesses that probably, even with his business savvy, really have no

01:12:31chance of making money.

01:12:32So I think sometimes we ask too much of Mike Rapoli.

01:12:36I mean, he's got this bluster and he calls himself the savior and the commissioner and all that.

01:12:42But at the end of the day, he's a smart guy.

01:12:44And I don't see him doing this now.

01:12:49Okay.

01:12:50Everybody else.

01:12:50No, no, no.

01:12:51I got something to say.

01:12:51I was going to let Billy go first.

01:12:52Oh, he's not going to lose money.

01:12:54I can't see him losing money.

01:12:57You hit the nail on the head.

01:12:58He would be buying a racetrack first rather than starting a TV station.

01:13:04Do you think too many people view Mike Rapoli as the savior?

01:13:10It's unbelievable.

01:13:13Gold strings going out of there.

01:13:14Call Mike Rapoli.

01:13:16You know, Hialeah.

01:13:17Call Mike Rapoli.

01:13:19He'll buy Hialeah.

01:13:20You know, we need more drones.

01:13:22Call Mike Rapoli.

01:13:24I mean, more ships.

01:13:26Mike Rapoli can build a shipyard.

01:13:28I mean, come on.

01:13:29I mean, yeah, he's I'm a fan of of.

01:13:33The way he's shaking the tree, so to speak.

01:13:36I think it's probably a tree that has a lot of dead branches on it that needs to be shaken

01:13:40in the industry.

01:13:42And I like the way he's, you know, he's trying to hold people and and, you know, companies in the

01:13:50sport, organizations in the sport accountable.

01:13:52I think it's a good thing.

01:13:53But he can't be viewed as the answer to every single thing that's, you know, that's going on in thoroughbred

01:13:59racing.

01:13:59I mean, come on.

01:14:01Yeah.

01:14:02I mean, you guys couldn't be more right about that.

01:14:05You know, like you said, I save Hawthorne.

01:14:11How about that?

01:14:12There's another one.

01:14:12Oh, my for pulling.

01:14:13Yeah.

01:14:13We'll call Mike Rapoli and he'll get that.

01:14:15He'll he'll get that mess straightened out.

01:14:17OK, so this is specifically for Randy.

01:14:20Randy is from Ron Birch zero nine zero one.

01:14:23Randy, do you believe in dosage numbers?

01:14:26Commandment has a seven and the Puma is four point six.

01:14:30Oh, can they get the mile and a quarter derby distance?

01:14:33But we haven't heard much about dosage numbers in a long time.

01:14:36But Ron Birch wants to know if based.

01:14:38OK, all right.

01:14:40Sorry, it's upside down backwards.

01:14:43I guess I guess that's your answer then.

01:14:46Yeah.

01:14:46My answer is an emphatic.

01:14:48No.

01:14:49OK.

01:14:50When you when you have a system that is constantly year after year adjusted and changed to make

01:15:00it viable, it no, you can't you can't do that.

01:15:04I mean, no, this horse doesn't fit dosage next year.

01:15:06Oh, he did fit dosage after all.

01:15:09That's no, I can't.

01:15:11I can't go for that.

01:15:12All right.

01:15:13Hey, Zoe, there was a comment from Holly Retzer.

01:15:16Did you see that one as well?

01:15:17Well, I'm not sure.

01:15:20All right.

01:15:21I was I was throwing to you that.

01:15:22That's the one who said the nice thing about me.

01:15:25Oh, yes.

01:15:26Oh, yes.

01:15:27Being the voice of reason.

01:15:31I love that.

01:15:32The voice of reason.

01:15:34We're just going to put that on your tombstone one of these days.

01:15:36The voice of reason.

01:15:38Mr. Bill Finley.

01:15:39And he is.

01:15:40He is.

01:15:40Who doesn't love Bill Finley?

01:15:42All right.

01:15:42And we thank you and Holly for writing in to the YouTube message board for us.

01:15:47But hey, again, this has been a lot of fun.

01:15:49Keep those messages and those comments coming.

01:15:52And we will do our very best to as long as they're nice and polite.

01:15:58One guy wasn't so nice.

01:16:00And that's why we didn't read from him.

01:16:02But that's why we're starting to go, Bill.

01:16:07I'm sorry.

01:16:07What's that?

01:16:08Are you on the left of the screen or the right of the screen, Bill?

01:16:13Which side of the screen are you sitting on?

01:16:15When it comes to horse racing and politics, I got nothing to say.

01:16:20Absolutely nothing.

01:16:21OK.

01:16:22All right.

01:16:22You know who you are.

01:16:25The TDN Writers Room is also brought to you by First TV.

01:16:29It is time for the work of the week.

01:16:31And we're talking Pavlovian, who has earned 70 points towards the Kentucky Derby, making him 11th on the list.

01:16:38He's keeping fit for his run on the first Saturday of May.

01:16:41The Doug O'Neill trainee won the Sunland Park Derby before finishing second by a nose on the March 21st

01:16:47Louisiana Derby.

01:16:49Worked a half mile this past Easter Sunday in 49 flat.

01:16:53He was solo that day under Edwin Maldonado.

01:16:55With 10 starts under his belt, he'll be one of the most experienced horses in the Kentucky Derby field.

01:17:01We'll be right back after this message from First TV.

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01:18:02Visit westpointtb.com.

01:18:05TD and Ryder's Room also brought to you by West Point Thoroughbreds.

01:18:09The work is never over for West Point Thoroughbreds.

01:18:12They've always got to be looking for their next stars.

01:18:14And right now, they're on the prowl.

01:18:16They've got their bloodstock agent, David N. Gordo.

01:18:18And his assistant, Casey Klein.

01:18:20And the whole team in Ocala for next week's OBS spring sale for two-year-olds in training.

01:18:28After all, last year at the April OBS sale, the team secured counting stars for $150,000 to run in

01:18:35the West Point Black and Gold.

01:18:37She'll be among the favorites for the Kentucky Oaks.

01:18:39And in 2023, they landed multiple grade one winner Carson's run for only $170,000.

01:18:47West Point's five newcomers from OBS March are now fully subscribed.

01:18:52You can get all the details on the April editions to come by logging on to www.westpointtb.com.

01:19:04I guess that's a wrap on this week's show.

01:19:06We had a lot of fun.

01:19:08I want to thank our Gainsway Guest of the Week, Nick Luck.

01:19:11I want to thank my partners, Randy Moss and Zoe Cabman.

01:19:14And as I say each and every week, and I mean it with all sincerity,

01:19:17this show would not look as wonderful and sound as good as it does

01:19:20if it weren't for the people who work so hard behind the screens, behind the scenes, excuse me,

01:19:26that's Sue Finley, Katie Petruniak, Anthony LaRocca, and Aaliyah LaRocca.

01:19:30We'll be back next week.

01:19:31Lots more talk here on the TDN Writers' Room podcast.

01:19:35Thanks for tuning in.

01:19:36See you next week.

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