- 3 months ago
Jay Briscione is one of the lucky co-owners enjoying the ride of a lifetime with the fan-favorite New Jersey-bred Book'em Danno. He joined this week's TDN Writers' Room to share the story behind the gelding, who added a third straight graded win in this weekend's GI Forego Stakes, and discuss what's in store for his future.
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00:00For the love of the worse, for generations to come.
00:23And welcome to the TDN Writer's Room Podcast presented by Keeneland.
00:31My name is Bill Finley. I'm a correspondent for the Thoroughbred Daily News.
00:35And we reached a milestone with this one.
00:37This is our 300th episode of the Writer's Room Podcast.
00:41We've been doing it for over six years.
00:43And I'm glad that you people enjoyed, actually enjoyed enough so that we can keep going.
00:47And hopefully we'll do it for another six years.
00:49But it's been a lot of fun. And I know we've had some ups and downs.
00:54But at the end of the day, I think we're putting out something that everybody does enjoy.
00:58So anyways, so once again, I'm Bill Finley, a correspondent for the TDN.
01:01And I want to welcome and now Randy Moss.
01:04Good to be here. Getting ready to do Kentucky Downs telecast this weekend.
01:09As far as the 300th podcast, you've been there, I guess, since the podcast left the starting gate.
01:15I kind of jumped in at the half mile pole, but it's been a lot of fun.
01:20I'm the Cal Ripken of the podcast. Yes.
01:22There you go.
01:24Anyways. All right.
01:25So obviously over the weekend, great card at Saratoga.
01:29And we start with the Traverse Stakes.
01:31One, of course, by Sovereignty.
01:33I didn't expect to be that excited about the race going in.
01:38I wasn't that excited about it coming out of it.
01:40It was a weird race with only five horses.
01:42And then the one horse that everybody thought might have a chance to beat Sovereignty was Magnitude.
01:47And he ran lousy.
01:48He was beating 20 and three quarter lengths.
01:51So right now, Sovereignty has passed another test.
01:55And it's on to the Breeders' Cup Classic for Bill Mott and the Goodolphin team.
01:59Yeah.
01:59He ran a 115 buyer speed figure, which is a career high for Sovereignty, which is we'll talk about it later.
02:08In our Fastest Horse of the Week segment.
02:12But it was a historically fast Traverse, given that speed figure.
02:19But we knew going in that Magnitude was really the only horse on paper that could give Sovereignty any kind of a challenge.
02:28And when Magnitude, you know, completely dropped out at about the 516s pole, that left Sovereignty and Bracket Buster.
02:37Now, Bracket Buster ran the best race of his career and gave it, you know, gave it an admirable fight.
02:43But in the end, he was just overmatched.
02:46And Sovereignty draws off to went by 10 lengths.
02:48To me, I think we talked last week about these Breeders' Cup Classic rankings that are published every week.
02:54Jim Gluckson spearheads that for the Breeders' Cup.
02:56Going into last week, I think I mentioned that I had Sierra Leone number one and Sovereignty number two.
03:03But I thought it was really close.
03:05Sierra Leone, obviously, the defending Breeders' Cup Classic champ.
03:09But after watching Sovereignty with that kind of number and win, even against that competition, as impressively as he did, I had to flip-flop and put Sovereignty number one.
03:22I think the three-year-olds, Sovereignty, journalism primarily, just look to be really, really good right now.
03:32Yeah, no doubt about that.
03:34Three-year-olds are very strong this year.
03:36Randy, do you think he's clinched horse of the year already?
03:39What if he doesn't win the Breeders' Cup and a creditable horse beats him?
03:45I got to think that maybe he's already done enough.
03:48That's a good question, Bill.
03:49I mean, winning the Kentucky Derby and winning the Belmont, Jim Dandy, Travers,
03:55you know, I don't know of any other horse right now that has built up such an impressive body of work at this point of the year
04:06that would be able to overtake Sovereignty, even if Sovereignty doesn't win the Classic.
04:14It's interesting.
04:15It's an interesting point.
04:15I mean, head-to-head competition is so important that if we get to the Breeders' Cup Classic at Del Mar
04:23and if, let's say, Sovereignty and Sierra Leone hook up from the top of the stretch
04:27and Sierra Leone outruns him to the wire, you know, maybe you could make a case that, you know,
04:33given the head-to-head element of that, that Sierra Leone should have the advantage.
04:38But Sovereignty would have to be the leader right now heading in that direction, I would think.
04:43Yeah, no doubt about that.
04:45So, so many big races on Saturday at Church, what, Saratoga.
04:51We're going to try to cover all of them, but let's focus in now on the forego,
04:55and I hope people see my shirt, see?
04:57Book and Bano, Book and Bano.
04:58He finally wore it.
05:00Yes, I wore it.
05:01I didn't care what the bosses said.
05:03I'm wearing the damn thing on the show.
05:06You know, and it's, I was talking to both the owner and one of the owners and the trainers,
05:11and they detected he's becoming a very popular horse, maybe even the most popular horse in
05:17racing right now because of the catchy name, the fact that he is not trained by Chad Brown
05:21or Todd Pletcher or anything like that.
05:24He was by a modest stallion out of an unraced mare, and he can just flat out run, Randy.
05:31This was his third sprint stakes race at Saratoga, which would set a record, but you have to put
05:36an asterisk next to that because one of them was during the Belmont stakes at Saratoga meet,
05:43so there won't be any opportunity to do that in the future.
05:47But, you know, everything they throw at him, he wins, and I don't think there's any doubt
05:51that he's the best sprinter in the country right now.
05:53I mean, based on accomplishments, what we've seen so far, I mean, he definitely would rank
05:59as the best sprinter in the country right now as we tape this podcast in mid-August.
06:06Now, the interesting thing is that trainer Derek Ryan has so far been kind of adamant
06:12that he does not want to run Bookum Dano in the Breeders' Cup Sprint, despite the fact
06:18that right now he's been dominant in the Sprint Division, and that's interesting.
06:22I don't know if he's going to stick to his guns.
06:24The ownership might have a little something to say about that, but let's just assume for
06:29a second that Bookum Dano continues on the run, continues on the road to the Breeders' Cup.
06:35What's going to be an interesting dilemma of sorts for horse players and for students of
06:43the game is that the Bookum Dano that we saw Saturday winning the four-go was not the same
06:52Bookum Dano that we saw winning the Alfred Vanderbilt in his previous start with the
06:59111 buyer, right?
07:00There were three seven-furlong sprint stakes run in close proximity on the Saturday under
07:07card of the Travers.
07:09Patch Adams won the Allen Jerkins with seven furlongs in 121.61.
07:15Hope Road comes back after that and wins the Ballerina at 121.93.
07:22Bookum Dano wins the four-go in 122.43.
07:28That's a full 10 points lower on the buyer scale than Patch Adams.
07:35And they gave him a bit of a boost in the buyer figures from up to 98, so it's not going
07:41to be a full 10 points lower than Patch Adams.
07:44But what do you make of that?
07:46Bookum Dano won anyway, even though he clearly, during the running of the race, didn't, to
07:54me at least, didn't quite look like the same Bookum Dano that we saw in the Vanderbilt.
08:00He was between horses.
08:01He was having to be ridden along.
08:03It looked like he was in trouble maybe at the 516s pole.
08:06The horses that were right behind him, Scotland, Crazy Mason, were both long shots who had
08:12typically run in the low to mid-90s numbers.
08:16You know, if you just didn't know anything about Bookum Dano and you only watched that
08:22race Saturday, you would not come away thinking that Bookum Dano was the best sprinter in America.
08:27So what does that mean?
08:30Maybe it means nothing.
08:32Horses aren't machines.
08:33They don't run exactly the same way every time.
08:36This was the third tough sprint at Saratoga in succession for Bookum Dano, the True North,
08:43the Vanderbilt, and now the Forgo.
08:45Maybe he just reacted a little bit from those big efforts in the True North and the Vanderbilt.
08:50Mullican was in the same boat after all.
08:53He was running in those three races as well.
08:55And he dropped, his form dropped off the cliff in the forego.
08:59I mean, he was way back at the finish for no apparent reason.
09:03So it's interesting, you know, what to make of Bookum Dano.
09:06And people are going to be talking about this if Bookum Dano, let's say he makes his next
09:09start in the Breeders' Cup sprint.
09:11It's going to be an interesting scenario to try to factor through.
09:15Yeah, Randy, you make some very interesting points there.
09:18But I wonder if he just clearly bounced and he would have every reason to be.
09:24And then if that's the case, he bounces and still wins a grade one stakes race with his B-minus effort.
09:32What does that tell you about him?
09:34And, you know, I see where you're going with that.
09:37But they got the win.
09:38Now, like you said, there's all this talk about not going to the Breeders' Cup, which doesn't make any sense to me whatsoever.
09:44But we'll see what they have to say down the road.
09:48But anyways, so that was Bookum Dano winning the forego stakes, one of the many stakes races.
09:55There's five grade ones on the card at Saratoga.
09:58So here's what we're going to do.
09:59We're going to take a little break.
10:01And then when we come back, we'll review the Travers.
10:03We already did that.
10:04We'll review the fastest horse of the week and much more to come here on the Writer's Room podcast.
10:11The TDN Writer's Room is brought to you by Keeneland.
10:14Keeneland sales grad Bookum Dano led a weekend's worth of stakes winning sales grads with his win in the grade one forego at Saratoga.
10:21Other successes included September and November graduate Indy Bay, who won the grade two Charlestown Oaks,
10:26and September grad Dr. Venkman, who won the grade two Pat O'Brien to punch his ticket to the Breeders' Cup Dirt Mile.
10:32And three more September grads will happen and torpedo Big Dom will name TDN Rising Stars.
10:38Find your next greatest stakes winner or TDN Rising Star at Keeneland September from September 8th to September 20th.
10:46It all comes down to this.
10:48Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen.
10:49The moment that defines the year.
10:52When the world's most influential buyers gather.
10:55And every decision, every bid, every opportunity shapes the future.
11:02At a marketplace that brings the thoroughbred world together.
11:06And where futures are forged.
11:08Because every moment matters.
11:12At the world's yearling sale, Keeneland September.
11:16The fastest horse of the week, as always, is brought to you by the fast sires of Windstar Farms,
11:21such as Take Charge Indy, who happens to be the sire of Indy Bay.
11:26The winner last week of the grade two, $750,000 Charlestown Oaks.
11:31Take Charge Indy, if you didn't know this, has an interesting backstory.
11:35He's a grade one winning son of AP Indy and Take Charge Lady.
11:38He began standing stud at Windstar in 2014.
11:41But after three years at Windstar, he was exported to South Korea even before his first offspring hit the track.
11:48But then, his runners turned out to be pretty darn good.
11:53And he stood in Korea for only three years before Windstar went back and brought him back to America.
12:00Indy Bay represents the second crop to Take Charge Indy runners since his return.
12:05Take Charge Indy now has six stake sources in 2025, including grade one place to Take Charge M'Lady.
12:12Take Charge Indy stood the 2025 season at Windstar Farm for just $7,500.
12:19The fastest source of the week is so obvious it doesn't even require a drumroll.
12:24Sovereignty's 115 buyer speed figure, not only the fastest of the week, it's thus far the fastest of the year and by a pretty wide margin.
12:33And here's some more perspective, okay?
12:36That 115 buyer was the fastest buyer recorded since Flightline.
12:42Ran 121 in the Breeders' Cup Classic of 2022.
12:46Before that, 126 in the Pacific Classic.
12:49Before that, 118 in the Malibu Stakes of 2021.
12:54In fact, to find a horse not named Flightline that ran a buyer as high as 115,
13:00you have to go back six years to Chancelot's win in the Amsterdam at Saratoga.
13:06But Chancelot was trained by Jorge Navarro.
13:09So that may require a mental asterisk, if nothing else.
13:14We welcome in the Gainesway Guest of the Week, and it's Jay Brissione, one of the co-owners, the phenomenal New Jersey-bred Bookum Dano.
13:26Welcome to the show, Jay, and congratulations on your win in the forego.
13:29Thank you very much for having me.
13:32And yeah, the forego was, so far it's a race I can't quite get over yet.
13:38Can't sleep at night, can't stop taking the calls during the day.
13:43Well, that's a good thing, though.
13:45Yeah, it is.
13:46So, by a modest sire, Buccaro, out of an unraced mare, Adorabella, did you, what are your expectations?
13:55Has this shattered your wildest dreams, what this horse has done?
14:00I mean, absolutely shattered our wildest dreams.
14:03We were in the, we've been in the business for a long time, but got back in the business after our kids went to college and we had some discretionary income again.
14:16So, Jim Scappy, one of the guys, kept saying, are we going to get in?
14:19Are we going to get in?
14:21And we, I think in 2019, we bought a horse called Counterfeit Currency, Jersey-bred.
14:26We like to stay in the restricted races.
14:29There you can buy athletes, kind of, you know, you don't worry about breeding too much.
14:33And you go through conditions, you have fun.
14:37So, all the guys are local.
14:39He was successful.
14:40He won, I think, a couple hundred thousand dollars.
14:43So, we had a little money to buy again and we're looking.
14:48We wound up at a Virginia farm getting another horse, Virginia certified, and that's where Bookum Dana was with Chris Gracie.
14:58He recommended him out of probably five other Jersey-breds.
15:04And, again, we're thinking, okay, maybe we get another Jersey-bred that goes through his conditions.
15:11We had been kind of following Buccaro, who to me is, you know, a very underrated sire.
15:18I think he's going to have a big impact now on the New York breeding scene once Belmont opens.
15:28And he's, you know, he's been, you know, very successful.
15:31So, thinking, you know, we're getting a Jersey-bred that's going to go through conditions.
15:39And Dano and this other horse trained together going to the races.
15:46One's a New York-bred, one's a Jersey-bred.
15:48The other one, much better mover, as Derek will always say.
15:54But when it came time to racing, I mean, the rest is history kind of thing.
15:59Never in our wildest dreams did we think we would have anything like this.
16:06You can give me $2 million, and I'm not going to duplicate, you know, what he's done for us.
16:11So, Jay, you were sticking to the script.
16:13August 12, 2023, you put him in a New Jersey-bred maiden special weight race at Monmouth.
16:20He wasn't even the favorite.
16:22He was 3-1 that day.
16:24And what does he do?
16:25He goes out, and he wins by nine and a half lengths.
16:29What were you expecting in that debut?
16:31And after it was over, I mean, you had to be going, holy cow.
16:37Actually, I was, it's one of the races I missed.
16:40I was flying in from Aruba.
16:42And, you know, you try to get these horses to the races as a Jersey-bred.
16:49You only have 50 days.
16:50So, you can't miss.
16:51So, obviously, I'm like, Derek, don't worry about me.
16:55Just put him in.
16:56You know, when he gets in, he gets in.
16:58Don't, you know, don't worry about anything.
17:00But I'm getting all these texts once I got off airplane mode and, you know, realized that he did win and then started watching the videos on the way home and things like that.
17:12So, I think we, quite honestly, I mean, to me, it takes a very, and I've been around a long time, but I think it takes a very special horse to win first time out.
17:25You know, so many things can go wrong.
17:28And he, I think, Jock lost his irons in the first race, and he's still won by nine.
17:37So, just an incredible feeling.
17:40And then looking at each other, you know, like, wow, what have we just, you know, what have we just witnessed kind of thing.
17:48So, before we spin it back to current day, I want to live in the past just a little bit more.
17:52So, he wins the smoke black and you send him to aqueduct.
17:56He wins the futurity.
17:57You run him in the Nashua at aqueduct.
17:59He's just beaten.
18:00Comes back as a three-year-old at Tampa Bay in the Pasco.
18:03He wins by the freaking length of the stretch in the Pasco.
18:06All right.
18:06So, now you've got a Jersey bread who's the stakes winner, who's got that funky leg action, like Derek likes to say, which doesn't seem to really get in his way, how fast he runs.
18:17And suddenly, where he came on my radar, really, you look up and he's in Saudi Arabia.
18:23What about the decision at that point to send the horse all the way to the Middle East to run against that Japanese superstar, Forever Young, who he almost beats?
18:35Yes.
18:35So, I think we were, all of us together, well, you know, there's some talk, what about the, you know, I think someone I mentioned earlier on, what about the hopeful?
18:46And I'm like, whoa, whoa, whoa, slow down.
18:49You know, we've got something at Monmouth here.
18:52We'll run him in.
18:53I think it was the hopeful that ran at the end of Saratoga.
18:56So, you know, there was a little, obviously, there's always excitement.
19:01But you want to try to put a, you know, damper on it and take one at a time kind of thing.
19:08I think from a standpoint of the derby and two turns, you know, I've seen a lot of horses that weren't prepared to run the mile in the quarter or get on the derby trail maybe earlier in their year and weren't mature enough to do that.
19:24And a lot of horses kind of get ruined by doing that because of the egos of their owners.
19:30We didn't have any of that.
19:31And really, Derek was never interested in that.
19:35He had had, I guess, relationships with the savvy people, you know, over the years, maybe, you know, them asking him to train out there.
19:44And he, you know, I brought up that race and, you know, we kind of gave him a look sideways like, really?
19:52We're going to go across the country with a three-year-old, you know.
19:57But, you know, he's a trainer.
20:00He knows the horse.
20:03You know, whatever, what chance would he ever get to go across the world?
20:07So we're on board, you know.
20:10So let's do it.
20:12And he trained into that race like super.
20:15I don't think, you know, Derek, I think, and said in one of the quotes, like, it's going to take somebody tough to beat him.
20:22You know, I had gotten all the sheets, all the nominations and, you know, look through.
20:27You know, we try to do our homework and, you know, see who was going to be in there.
20:30And obviously, you know, Forever Young looked like he was going to be the tough competition and the real deal.
20:37But, you know, he ran his eyeballs out and, you know, in retrospect, you know, could have won that race.
20:44I think he's, what, 10 for 16.
20:48He could conceivably be 13 for 16 between the Nashua, that race, and the Perryville.
20:54But it was, you know, unbelievably exciting, an experience that we would have, don't forget, we're thinking we have a Georgie bread going through conditions.
21:04A other than, two other than kind of things, staying at Monmouth Park.
21:07And here we are in Saudi Arabia.
21:11Did you make it?
21:11It was incredible.
21:13Were you there?
21:14Incredible experience.
21:16And you were there?
21:17Yeah.
21:18Now, Jay, everybody is looking to the future now.
21:22And you win the forego.
21:24And I would say 99% of the owners and trainers would say, yippee-yi-yi-yi, we won the forego.
21:30We're going on to Breeders' Cup Sprint.
21:33Derek Ryan, your trainer, I don't think you guys, I guess, make the final decision.
21:38But he is not, doesn't want to go.
21:41He's been flat out said that.
21:42So where do things stand for his schedule and, you know, ultimately, how will this decision be made?
21:50I think, you know, it's a cliche that, you know, let's sit back and take every race, you know, as it comes, one at a time, see how he comes out of it.
22:00Now, for the most part, he's been a pretty resilient racehorse.
22:05You know, he comes out of these races, you know, very good.
22:10You got to get him back to the track relatively quickly, which is great.
22:14The one race that I remember, and I'm in Ocean Port, so I get to the barn.
22:19You know, he's at Monmouth Park.
22:20I get there a couple of times a week.
22:22The one race that took a little out of him probably was the Jerkins in August of last year.
22:29It took him a little more time to recover from that.
22:32But other than that, he's been very good.
22:35So, again, I think one race at a time we look at.
22:42Obviously, you know, the Breeders' Cup is whatever has been said has been said.
22:48But the Breeders' Cup is in the picture.
22:50I think we've nominated – oh, I know.
22:54I've nominated for the three and up sprints around the end of the month, whether we go
23:01in one of them or train.
23:02If we decide to go in the Breeders' Cup to train right up to that, that's, you know,
23:06that's a Derek decision.
23:11And where we're going to go, I think that would also depend on what he looks like in
23:18the next, you know, couple of weeks.
23:20We'll try to do maybe a more extensive physical just to see where he is.
23:28You know, he's had a tough campaign.
23:31That race in Kentucky was probably a key race of the year with the horses that came out of
23:37there and the way they've run.
23:39And then the last three, he's run very hard.
23:42So, Breeders' Cup-wise, I'm sure we're going to see Straight No Shades, you know, come out
23:47shortly and probably Ventranato.
23:49So, there'll be a couple of, you know, new shooters that he'll have to run at where he's
23:55at the end of his campaign.
23:56And I think last year, it's probably only bad race, I would say.
24:02And, you know, part of it was Tripp, but the Cigar Mile, you know, that could have been
24:07the distance.
24:09It could have been the Tripp.
24:10It could have been, you know, the end of his campaign.
24:12So, I just, you know, he's a gelding.
24:16His ability to earn money is the biggest thing he's got going for him.
24:23And we're kind of, whether we've been divinely blessed, blessed, luck, whatever it is, we
24:31have our hands on a, you know, a special racehorse.
24:35And, you know, it's kind of our stewardship to try to make sure he gets treated the way
24:44a horse like him, you know, should be treated, I think.
24:47Jay, a two-part question for you.
24:51First of all, have you, do you realize how popular this horse is?
24:55And can you give me any, you know, anecdotal stories about, you know, maybe people coming
24:59up to you and saying, hey, you got the coolest horse in the world.
25:02And part of that actually has to do, no doubt, with his name.
25:07If you named him, you know, whatever, Running Boy, nobody would care.
25:12But the nickname is so, the name is so catchy.
25:16So, what about his popularity and who came up with the name?
25:19So, the name is catchy to the 40 and up crowd, I think.
25:24The 40 and under crowd, you know, look at you like, you know, you're crazy.
25:28But you're right.
25:29I think a couple of things.
25:31I think, you know, we're the underdogs.
25:33We're the little guys.
25:35It's nice to see the little guys do good.
25:37And the horse from New Jersey, everybody says he's of modest means.
25:42Again, I disagree with that.
25:43I think Bucaro is an up-and-coming sire.
25:47And I think the mare is good.
25:53So, the story is a couple of them.
25:55Like, Mark, who's one of the owners, runs the horse.
25:58He comes in from Panama.
26:00And he goes to the barn.
26:02He helps Derek, you know, a couple of days before the race.
26:06And then he brings him over there.
26:07So, on the way, the last two times back, you know, walking back to the barn from Saratoga,
26:14I think, you know, their crowd is probably 8, 10 deep.
26:19And they're all cheering his name, you know, Dana.
26:23So, he said, I wish you could have come and walked with me just to see, like, how popular this horse is.
26:29You know, I'm not a Twitterer, you know, but I hear that, you know, he gets a lot of attention on social media and stuff.
26:38And he's a cool horse.
26:39He comes back, and there's a round pen at Monmouth.
26:42He goes in the round pen, and he rolls a couple of times.
26:45He does his routine.
26:47He drinks water out of a hose, out of the nozzle of a hose.
26:52He likes the knicker makers, the little cookies kind of thing.
26:56He's just a very cool horse.
26:59Like I said, we're really blessed to be involved in something like him.
27:05It's really a dream come true.
27:08A couple of my friends always said, probably after a couple of drinks, like, what's your passion in life?
27:17You know, your passion may not be what you do.
27:20I'm in real estate, but, you know, my passion is horse racing.
27:25I've been around, you know, horses for 50 years or so.
27:29So there's this other Jersey guy who's been beating the Bookum Dano drum for a long time by the name of Bill Finley.
27:34You may be familiar with him.
27:36He may be at the top of the Bookum Dano fan club.
27:42So meanwhile, over your left shoulder, I think it is, we're looking at a photo on the wall of Secretariat winning the Belmont.
27:51Is there a story behind that photo?
27:53Yeah, so my 70, I hate to date myself, but my 70th birthday, my brother, who's an equine dentist who claims some of, he's on call for Bookum Dano, by the way.
28:10You don't get many dentists on call.
28:12He's on call and claims, you know, some success, Paul.
28:18Him and his daughters, my nieces, got me that.
28:21It's signed by Ron Turcotte, who recently passed away.
28:28Lucian Lauren and Penny Tweedy.
28:29So that's Secretariat winning the Belmont by 31 months.
28:35I saw Secretariat in the Marlboro Cup live when he beat Reva Ridge, I think, and Cougar many, many years ago.
28:48And probably have gone before the Belmont stopped running at Belmont.
28:51Well, we've been there because of Dano at Saratoga, but I've gone to probably the last 25 Belmonts.
28:57I saw a couple of Triple Crowns involved for many, many years.
29:02So, Bill, we know Bookum Dano is fast.
29:04We know Bookum Dano is popular, and we know he has good teeth.
29:09That's a good trifecta.
29:11In fact, he brings them home for my grandson, of which my wife is like, well, what are they doing here?
29:18What are these things here?
29:21Well, we want to thank Jay Brissione, the co-owner of Bookum Dano, the Gainesway Guest of the Week.
29:27Best of luck whether you go in the Breeders' Cup, whether you go in the Phoenix, wherever you go.
29:31Best of luck with him.
29:32And keep this story rolling because racing needs these kind of feel-good stories, and you certainly are one of them.
29:37Once again, Jay, thanks so much for joining us.
29:39I appreciate it, and thanks for having me, and thanks for your interest in him.
29:46Guest of the Week, Jay Brissione, was brought to you by Gainesway, the home of Stallion McKenzie,
29:51who had another nice two-year-old winner Saturday on the Travers' undercard, Big Dom.
29:56It was actually a McKenzie Xacta in that maiden race, Big Dom over Dr. Caper.
30:02And remember earlier at Saratoga, McKenzie's son, Golden Tornado, was also impressive for trainer Danny Gargan and Reeves Thoroughbred Racing.
30:10McKenzie is the best son of Street Sense on the track.
30:13Earnings of over $3.5 million, four grade one wins, 11 triple-digit buyers,
30:18and now McKenzie is replicating that success in the Stallion Barn.
30:23Gainesway, power, passion, performance.
30:27It's a domineering display by the ultra-talented McKenzie.
30:31McKenzie in a dominant performance.
30:35One to be able to get to a Hall of $1,200,000.
30:39Chancer McPatrick proves best.
30:42Chancer McPatrick wins the champagne impressively.
30:46It is going to be all Scottish.
30:48Lassie, she wins the present easily.
30:57Well, the personal ensign was won by one of the sport's favorite horses in Torpedo Anna.
31:03And Randy, just like you said that Bookum Dano doesn't look the same as he did last year or earlier in the year,
31:11I love Torpedo Anna.
31:13How can you not?
31:14But she only won by a nose over Dorth Vader, who's, you know, okay.
31:20But she was fourth in the Mali Pitcher in a recent start.
31:23And I've been saying this for a while, that, you know, she's got enough class.
31:27She was able to win this race in a very game performance.
31:29But I don't think she's the same horse.
31:31I don't know, Bill.
31:32It's a tough call.
31:34And I can see why you would think that.
31:36And I can see why some others might think that.
31:38Because knowing what we know or what we knew about Dorth Vader heading into the personal ensign,
31:45and then you see the Torpedo Anna's life and death to hang on in a head bob,
31:49you've got to wonder about the quality of the effort.
31:52But there are two scenarios there.
31:53Did Torpedo Anna come down to the typical level that Dorth Vader had been running?
31:59Or did Dorth Vader elevate her game to get to the Torpedo Anna level?
32:05And when you look at the races in its entirety,
32:08there were nine and three quarters lengths separating the runner-up in their Dorth Vader
32:15from the rest of the field.
32:17And back behind there, I mean, you had Raging Sea,
32:20who was not quite the same mare so far this year as she was last year
32:24when she was second to Torpedo Anna in the Breeders' Cup disc staff.
32:27But it wasn't a lousy bunch back behind there.
32:32So this race comes up 15 points slower on the buyer's scale than Sovereignty's win in the Traverse.
32:40And so looking at all the horses back behind
32:44and doing the best the speed figure makers can
32:47in determining the quality of each race,
32:51Sovereignty gets a 115.
32:53Torpedo Anna gets a buyer's speed figure of 100,
32:56which would indicate that it actually was Dorth Vader
33:00rising to the level of Torpedo Anna.
33:02Torpedo Anna also got a 100 in the Breeders' Cup disc staff a year ago.
33:07And this would have been her best number since the Breeders' Cup disc staff.
33:11So on that count, using numerology,
33:16you can make the case that Torpedo Anna was just as good in the personal ensign
33:21as she was in the Breeders' Cup last year
33:23when she was 2-5 against what, in hindsight, was kind of a suspect field.
33:30Raging Sea was second.
33:31Candied was third.
33:32And then a bunch of horses that you haven't heard from since
33:34that were back behind there.
33:36Does this make Torpedo Anna the favorite again for the Breeders' Cup disc staff?
33:43I don't think so, just because I think the competition is going to be a lot tougher.
33:48Who do you think would be the favorite?
33:50Well, Baffert's got a trio of older fillies and mares out there on the West Coast
33:55that have just been absolute dynamite so far.
33:58Copion, if she stretches out to a mile and an eighth as well as she did
34:02in her first effort around two turns, could also be right there as well.
34:08So I think that water is going to be deeper for Torpedo Anna in the distaffed division
34:13when she gets to Del Mar this fall if she makes it that far.
34:16But, I mean, I thought her race was pretty good in the personal ensign.
34:21I haven't talked to Kenny McPeak, but he likes to run this horse.
34:25He always does.
34:26I wonder if he'll give her one more prep between now and the Breeders' Cup,
34:30whereas you're seeing everyone else like Sovereignty.
34:32We're done with the Travers, see it, the Breeders' Cup.
34:35So that'll be interesting if he does that and what she does in that race.
34:39And perhaps that'll answer some of the questions that we've been bringing up.
34:42Yeah, but for sure, if you're analyzing Torpedo Anna's race in the personal ensign,
34:48you can't really say, you know, she won, but you can't really hang much on that.
34:56Right.
34:56You might as well look at it as if she lost the head bob by a nose
35:00because it's really, it was luck.
35:01It's really the same thing one way or the other.
35:03So I wouldn't put too much emphasis on the fact that Torpedo Anna got her nose down in front.
35:08Well, the Ballerina on Saturday, another one of the Grade 1 stakes races, was won by Hope Road.
35:14Shout out to the owner, Cicero Farms, Ron and Barb Perry, who also raced the dam of Hope Road.
35:21And we hear a story that Ron Perry likes to wear Bob Marley t-shirts for Marley's freedom as the dam to the racetrack.
35:29Maybe, I don't think he wears them out.
35:31Maybe he does it and puts it under his sport jacket or something like that.
35:35Randy, she looked good on paper, wasn't a very strong race.
35:39And Baffert took advantage of it and comes in and wins the race.
35:42And she's a good horse.
35:45Beard's Cup, Philly, and Mare spread it.
35:47Figures she'll be right in there.
35:48Yeah.
35:49I mean, this is a fantastic division because you not only have Hope Road, but you've got Copion.
35:55Now, this is assuming, we just mentioned Copion as a possibility for the distaff.
36:00She could go in either direction, depending on what Richard Mandela wants to do.
36:04She's obviously a sensation at seven furlongs.
36:07She's proven that.
36:08And she's also run well around two turns.
36:10So they could go either direction.
36:12But if they go to the Breeders' Cup, Philly, and Mare sprint side of things, you've got Hope Road.
36:17You've got Copion, who beat Hope Road decisively three times in a row in the La Brea, the Santa Monica,
36:24and the Derby City distaff at Churchill Downs, all at seven furlongs, the distance of the Breeders' Cup.
36:29You've got Ways and Means, who was sensational with a 1.11 buyer's speed figure earlier this year.
36:36And, you know, she didn't run as well at Del Mar last year in the Philly and Mare sprint as she has on the East Coast.
36:43You know, but she's right there as well.
36:46Hope Road's last race before the ballerina was the winning colors at Churchill Downs.
36:50As we talked last week, it wasn't really a good trip.
36:53She got bumped around pretty hard leaving the gate and then rushed up into a very, very fast pace.
36:59But now Hope Road, you know, ran an outstanding race in the ballerina.
37:03When she lost to Copion in two of those races, the Santa Monica and the Derby City distaff,
37:08she lost even though she ran triple-digit buyers.
37:12And she was back in the triple-digit buyer department on Saturday at Saratoga.
37:17One more note about Marley in our brief conversations with Ron.
37:22He apparently is a huge Bob Marley fan.
37:25I had no idea about this.
37:27Hope Road was the address that Bob Marley lived at during the last few years of his life.
37:36So we've got Marley's freedom, Bob Marley all over the place here with Hope Road.
37:41Can't do worse than that.
37:43I mean, I can't do better than that.
37:44I'm a Bob Marley fan myself.
37:46All right, the Alan Jerkins was the other stakes race on the card.
37:50And this one was really loaded.
37:51Baffert brought three horses in for this one.
37:54This race always comes up tough.
37:56It was won by Patch Adams.
37:57How about the race run by Captain Cook, longest shot on the board,
38:02and just almost nearly pulled it off.
38:05But Patch Adams got him at the wire for his third straight stakes win,
38:09his second straight grade one.
38:11And then Baffert didn't do too well here.
38:13He finished third, fifth, and sixth with his runners.
38:17So it was an exciting race.
38:19I didn't think Captain Cook had any chance whatsoever.
38:22Matter of fact, I said on my radio show, the only horse you can throw out in this race is Captain Cook.
38:27That comes back to punch you every single time.
38:30But anyways, Randy, your take on the Alan Jerkins.
38:34Well, as much respect as we have for Rick Dutrow, in certain situations, certain horses run best for certain trainers.
38:43And this was Captain Cook's very first start for trainer Todd Pletcher.
38:47So maybe that's at least some explanation for Captain Cook's, you know, lifetime best performance.
38:55Look, this was one hell of a race.
38:57The margins don't necessarily show it.
39:00I mean, Patch Adams beats Captain Cook by a nose, and then it's a length and a half back to Barnes.
39:05All three of those horses ran sensationally in the analytics, in the numbers.
39:10Right now, Patch Adams, in my opinion, would have to be one of the leading candidates out there, let's say, for the Breeders' Cup dirt mile.
39:19They could back him up to three-quarters of a mile.
39:21He'd be one of the leading candidates for the Breeders' Cup sprint.
39:24This horse is just – it's hard to say he's an overachiever when he's a Windstar farm-bred son of into mischief out of a distorted humor mare.
39:33And he was initially one of the highest-rated, most promising three-year-olds on the Derby Trail at one point this winter.
39:43But as it turns out, he's a better horse around one turn than he is around two turns.
39:47Brad Cox has been keeping him at the one-turn distance for now.
39:53But Patch Adams is just, you know, a really underrated horse, I think.
39:59And when you watch his races, like when you watch the Alan Jerkins, he was being ridden for quite a long way.
40:06He was down on the inside.
40:08Luis Saez was on the engine just keeping him up there, keeping him up there.
40:12Some horses, like jockeys, talk about how it's like riding a bicycle.
40:15Some horses you just have to keep after him, keep after him.
40:18And then eventually, they'll just wear the other horses down.
40:21And that seems to be the kind of horse that Patch Adams is because he just, you know, seems to get the job done as he did Saturday.
40:28The TD and Riders Room also brought to you by the Pennsylvania Horse Breeders Association.
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42:30On Sunday, trainer Michael McCarthy announced that journalism will make his next start in the August 31 Pacific Classic.
42:37Here is the workout that apparently helped him make that decision.
42:40That's journalism on the outside working in company with phosphorants, and as they hit the wire in one minute flat for the five furlongs.
42:46But watch the gallop out here where journalism just rolls right on past his workmate.
42:51Journalism will face older rivals like Nysos and Fierceness for the first time in the Pacific Classic.
42:55Well, some very sad news off the track and horse racing last week.
43:00Ron Turcotte passed away.
43:01He is, of course, the jockey of the great secretariat.
43:04He lived to be 84 years old.
43:06Randy, he was hurt before I started writing about racing, so I never met him in person.
43:12But this guy must have called him up on the phone, you know, 10 times, always, you know, get his opinion on this, get his opinion on that.
43:18I think the last time I did a story with him, I asked him who was better, secretariat or flight line, and you know what his answer was.
43:26He said secretariat.
43:27But he was a great ambassador for the racing game because he was always there when people wanted to know more about secretariat.
43:35And he, you know, had a tough life.
43:37He wound up in a wheelchair for the last 50-some-odd years of his life because of an axe spill at Belmont Park.
43:43But, you know, and it's not like will he be missed.
43:46He was pretty much the last link to the secretariat team.
43:50Penny Tweedy has passed away.
43:51Lucian Lauren has passed away.
43:53And then you have the jockey now, Ron Turcotte, passed away.
43:55So, that's pretty sad in and of itself.
43:58But we wish the Turcotte family well.
44:02Hope everybody's holding up pretty good throughout this.
44:05And, of course, Ron Turcotte will be missed.
44:07Yeah.
44:08Eddie Sweat, the groom, has passed away.
44:10Bill Knack, who, you know, chronicled the secretariat's career, has passed away.
44:14You know, so many names associated with secretariat are gone now.
44:17As good a jockey as Turcotte was, and he won thousands of races, won two Kentucky Derby's back-to-back with Reva Ridge and secretariat.
44:25He might have been an even better ambassador for the sport.
44:31Like you, I wasn't covering racing before Turcotte's injury, but I got to meet him a few times at events in which he would, you know, invariably make every effort to try to attend.
44:45Autograph sessions, things like that.
44:47And he was always, you know, right there to do anything possible to help the sport when it couldn't have been easy for him to get around and for him to travel like that, you know, being confined to a wheelchair.
44:59Would always sign the last autograph, would talk to whatever fans wanted to talk to him about secretariat.
45:05What a personality.
45:08I mean, he was just fantastic with the public, with the media, with the sport in general, post-injury, post-secretariat.
45:15And that, I think, is going to be a pretty important part of Ron Turcotte's legacy as well.
45:20Yeah, absolutely.
45:21No doubt about that.
45:22So, let's get into the racing for the weekend.
45:26On Sunday is the Jockey Club Gold Cup at Belmont Park.
45:30And this is why the Gold Cup struggled a little bit in the last couple of years.
45:34Not this year.
45:35There's a field of 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9.
45:39Looks like either 9 or 10 horses will run in here.
45:43But the story is Mindframe versus Sierra Leone.
45:46And the two of them going head-to-head again.
45:48And Mindframe already beat Sierra Leone one time this year in the Stephen Foster.
45:53I can't separate these two horses, Randy.
45:56I mean, maybe someone else will win.
45:57But they're part of a very strong 4-year-old group, class.
46:02I guess I would give them a nod to Mindframe because I still don't like Sierra Leone picking horses that come from so far back early.
46:09That's not an easy way to win a race.
46:11But whoever wins this is going to be tough in the Breeders' Cup Classic.
46:16No doubt about it.
46:17Yeah, Mike Rapoli has been pretty humorous talking about Mindframe and fierceness.
46:21You know, both horses are his.
46:24The beginning of the year, fierceness was the big dog.
46:27And then Mindframe goes on a run.
46:31And then Mike is like, well, you've got to put Mindframe right with fierceness.
46:35And then fierceness kind of lays an egg in his last start.
46:38I guess that was in the Whitney.
46:40And now he's like, well, okay, well, maybe Mindframe's the leader in the clubhouse right now in the Rapoli stable.
46:45They're both good, obviously.
46:47They're both really good.
46:48But, yeah, Mindframe has got more tactical speed than Sierra Leone does.
46:54And he doesn't have to be in front.
46:56He may even prefer to be stalking the pace, probably does, even if he can make the lead.
47:02And so just because of that, I think you have to give him the edge over Sierra Leone.
47:06But it's going to be an interesting matchup.
47:09Wyatt Abario is also in there, but he didn't run well in the Whitney, so I don't know what to make about that.
47:14Now, let's move out to Southern California.
47:17And the Pacific Classic is going to be run Saturday.
47:20And this, you know, talk about a heavyweight battle.
47:23You have fierceness, journalism, and Nysos heading the field.
47:28Journalism, the three-year-old.
47:29I like journalism, and I think he's going to beat these older horses.
47:33Fierceness and Nysos are, you know, really nice horses.
47:36And I'm basing a lot of this on the respect I have for sovereignty.
47:40Yep.
47:40If journalism can run well enough to finish second and a reasonably close second behind sovereignty,
47:46I think, you know, normally I don't like three-year-olds running against older horses,
47:49though you don't really see it much anymore until you get to the Breeders' Cup.
47:52But I think he's kind of just maybe in another league, though, but fierceness and Nysos are nothing to squawk about.
48:01And, Randy, how about the mile and a quarter, though?
48:03I mean, obviously, journalism can do it.
48:04He's already won at a mile and a quarter.
48:06But fierceness and Nysos, you think they'll be able to get the distance?
48:10Yeah.
48:10I mean, look, this is the race of the weekend.
48:13This is just a sensational race, right?
48:18Fierceness almost won the Breeders' Cup Classic in a mile and a quarter last year.
48:21At the same track, Del Mar, despite a pace that clearly compromised his chances,
48:28being right up on the engine all the way around.
48:31He ran an unbelievable—he ran a better race, honestly, in the Classic than Sierra Leone did.
48:36And for that reason, I know some people who voted for him for older champion over Sierra Leone,
48:42just because he ran so well in the Classic at a mile and a quarter at Del Mar.
48:47So there's that.
48:48And I think, in part, you're seeing fierceness back at Del Mar,
48:53A, because they want to separate fierceness and mind frame,
48:57and mind frame's going at Saratoga in the Jockey Club Gold Cup.
49:00And B, fierceness didn't run all that well at Saratoga in his last start.
49:04So why not send him back out to a track in which he ran so sensationally last year in the Classic?
49:11Nysos, on numbers, his last race when he won the San Diego wasn't as impressive,
49:17you know, certainly as fierceness's best races and not as journalism's best races.
49:22But visually, it looked really good.
49:26I mean, Zoe and I talked about that when we talked about the San Diego, you know, a month ago.
49:31So he just gave you that wow sort of turn of foot when he got clear running room at about the 316s poll,
49:38and he just shot through the gap and opened up.
49:41So you got the Bob Baffert factor.
49:43You got Nysos, who has run big numbers in the past, okay?
49:48And mile and a quarter is still, I think, somewhat of a question mark for Nysos.
49:54But, you know, I don't think it's a huge question mark.
49:57And I agree with you about journalism, you know, having run so well against sovereignty
50:04and what we've seen from sovereignty, for example, in the Traverse.
50:08That has to flatter journalism.
50:11He's back in his home base now in California.
50:13He doesn't have to travel back east to run against sovereignty.
50:17He can sit in his barn now and take on Nysos and fierceness.
50:21So what a race.
50:22What a race this is.
50:23Like you, I'll give a slight edge to journalism, just because fierceness was off form in his last race.
50:32And I thought he got a pretty decent trip and still disappointed in the final quarter of a mile.
50:38Remember, he made the lead at the top of the stretch last time, and it was kind of swallowed up.
50:42And there's still some distance questions about Nysos.
50:45So, yeah, I'll go journalism by a flared nostril.
50:50All right.
50:51Well, I know you're going to turn your attention to Kentucky Downs this week, as I think we all are.
50:55Every year, it's just, it's almost ridiculous.
50:59I mean, the money they have, $41.7 million in purses we've paid out over seven days of racing.
51:08They have five stakes on Saturday's card, where they're worth a total of $10.5 million, highlighted by the Nashville Derby, which is worth $3.5 million.
51:18And it's even attracted a bunch of, a couple of dirt horses like Sandman and Burnham Square, because of that kind of money, it's a great place to experiment with them to see if they can handle the grass.
51:30There's one shipper coming in.
51:31I'm a little disappointed than getting more European presence in this race.
51:37They got Wimbledon Hawkeye.
51:39But remember, if you're, if you're not bred in Kentucky, you run for a lower purse.
51:43So that has something to do with why, why that.
51:47Randy, I love, I love playing this place.
51:49You can, this is a place where you can, you know, zero in on an Xacta and it'll pay $326 and it'll make perfect sense to you because the races are so wide open and everything.
51:59And they've just done a tremendous job turning this in from a track that was just sort of out of, out in the middle of nowhere to track right now.
52:08It's just, like I said, making headlines and, and, and proving that, that they belong in the biggest of big leagues.
52:17Yeah.
52:17I mean, this is not meant in any way to disparage, disparage the purse structure at Kentucky Downs, which is unbelievable.
52:24But you mentioned, I mean, there does have to be at least somewhat of a small asterisk on some of those purses since in most of these big stakes races, about half the money is put up by the Kentucky Thoroughbred Development Fund and eligible to be won only by Kentucky breads.
52:42Okay.
52:42Now, in this case, you look at the Nashville Derby, every horse in the main body of the field is a Kentucky bred with the exception of Wimbledon Hawkeye, the horse that you mentioned that's coming in.
52:54From, from, from England.
52:55He's bred in Great Britain.
52:57Now, on paper, to me, Wimbledon Hawkeye is the horse to beat.
53:03Last year, a horse named Bellum Justice came over from Europe using the same basic prep races and won this race with Frankie DeTore.
53:13Now DeTore is back on Wimbledon Hawkeye.
53:15But here's the thing.
53:17Two races back in a race at Newmarket called the Princess of Wales' Stakes, a Group 2, which is pretty much equivalent to a Group 1 in America.
53:26Wimbledon Hawkeye was second, beaten two lengths by a Godolphin horse named El Cordobas, who came over to the United States in his next start and scored a big win at Saratoga with a buyer speed figure of 1.04.
53:41That was a lot tougher competition than some of the other races, although he did run against Field of Gold and Ruling Court back earlier in his three-year-old year.
53:53So to me, that makes Wimbledon Hawkeye the horse to beat, although, you know, you've got, you know, you've got some pretty tough competition in there against him.
54:02Test score, won the Belmont Derby and was narrowly beaten in the Saratoga Derby.
54:08And what's interesting is you've got a couple of horses in Burnham Square and Sandman who are switching to the turf to see if they can be as good on turf as they have been on the dirt.
54:19And, of course, both of those horses were front and center in the Triple Crown this year.
54:24Randy, I know NBC will be televising some of the races from Kentucky Downs.
54:27Give us the lineup and the format and what time they're going to be on.
54:30Yeah, we will be on the air Saturday from 5 to 7 p.m. Eastern Time from the studio in Connecticut covering three Kentucky Downs stakes races.
54:41We'll start off with the Turf Sprint, which is an exceptional race, and then the Nashville Derby.
54:47And then we'll finish it off with the Ladies Sprint, obviously also on the grass, as all Kentucky Downs horses are.
54:54A.G. Bullitt is defending her title in the Ladies Sprint, and she's in good form right now.
54:59And so two hours, three races from Kentucky Downs.
55:03It'll be on NBC Saturday.
55:06And will it be on the following Saturday as well?
55:08No, just this particular August 30th telecast.
55:12Yeah, that's next week you'll run into college football, and that's always a problem for horse racing broadcast, as I well know,
55:19because Sirius has contracts with every single conference in America for the football.
55:24So anyways.
55:25And the TD and Writers Room also brought to you by West Point Thoroughbreds.
55:30We love to give you updates on West Point runners, and this weekend, that includes major stakes races at Saratoga, at Kentucky Downs, and at Del Mar.
55:40Curtain Call starts Monday in the hopeful stakes at Saratoga.
55:45How about this?
55:46Sandman makes his turf debut in the $3.5 million Nashville Derby on Saturday at Kentucky Downs,
55:53and also on Saturday, Indispensable will take on a star-studded field in the Pacific Classic.
56:00His trainer, John Sadler, shoots for his fifth Pacific Classic win since 2018.
56:05All the thrills.
56:12Fraction of the bills.
56:17Experience the power of the partnership.
56:22Change your life, make new friends, and compete at the highest level of thoroughbred racing.
56:30West Point Thoroughbreds, the gold standard in racing partnerships.
56:33Visit westpointtb.com.
56:37That's a wrap on this week's show.
56:39I want to thank my partner, Randy Moss, and I also want to thank our guests, Jay Brissione, the Gainesway Guest of the Week,
56:46and also the people that work behind the scenes to make their podcast go.
56:50That's Sue Finley, Anthony LaRocca, Leo LaRocca, and Katie Petrumiak.
56:54It should be a great weekend of racing with the Pacific Classic and the Jockey Club Gold Cup on tap.
57:00Enjoy, everybody, and we'll talk to you next week.
57:02Bye.
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