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00:00Chris Trapasso with us, draftgradebook.com.
00:04Bulldog and I were talking how we wanted to get going with you today,
00:07and I liked his idea, which was let's talk about the top ten
00:11or even just the top five.
00:13I mean, how solid is it right now in your opinion?
00:17I think it's reasonably solid, but there's just not a lot of buzz about it
00:22because these prospects are not these blue chippers that we normally see.
00:26I mean, Mendoza's going to go one.
00:28I think number two to the Jets is probably Arvel Reese.
00:33I think they would be making a mistake picking him over David Bailey.
00:37Bailey's older and maybe doesn't have as much upside,
00:39but is a much more polished player and just was more productive
00:44in a defined edge rusher role.
00:47Arizona at three I think is a little bit of a wild card,
00:50but it does feel like the other Ohio State linebacker, Sonny Stiles,
00:55feels like the guy that is mostly mocked there.
00:57I'm sure you guys have looked at more mocks than I have.
00:59I've tried to stay away from mock drafts this year because I did 1,000 of them
01:03the last ten years at CBS.
01:04Do you miss it?
01:06No, not one bit.
01:10Tennessee, Jeremiah Love, and then the Giants,
01:13I'm not totally sure where they would ultimately land with Jim Harbaugh.
01:18They probably want offensive line to help Jackson Dart.
01:21So I think it's reasonably solidified.
01:25There's just, again, kind of sort of like last year, but even to a greater degree,
01:29there's just not the buzz because the talent is not where it normally is
01:32inside that top five.
01:34How do you like that, Bulldog?
01:35All these years talking to Chris, year after year, week after week.
01:40Behind the music, he hated it.
01:43I mean, I didn't hate talking about it, but doing one per week from September
01:48through April, like, would, by the time that I should be getting excited about it
01:54in that time period, I was sick of them.
01:56You know what I mean?
01:56By March or April, I had done like 40 of them.
01:59Sure, makes sense.
02:01Well, I mean, Arvel Reese at two.
02:04There's also Sonny Stiles, who you mentioned.
02:06Two linebackers from Ohio State could end up being both in the top three, I guess.
02:11They could, yeah.
02:13And I think with Reese, just very quickly, with Reese,
02:18there's a lot of the comparisons to Micah Parsons because he was off-ball linebacker
02:23that rushed off the edge, and the production, if you're just looking at pressures
02:27and pressure rate, you're like, oh, wow, he was like Micah Parsons 2.0.
02:31When you watch the film, Micah Parsons, I remember writing a few times
02:37in my scouting reports, like, this guy can beat offensive linemen
02:40with pass rush moves, with a bull rush, with 50 different ways.
02:44Arvel Reese was getting a lot of those pressures on stunts or on, like, blitzes
02:49when he had a free run at the quarterback.
02:50He is not, to me, the level of pass rushing prospect that Micah Parsons is,
02:56but he's young, Ohio State, certainly versatile and tested through the roof.
03:01So, yeah, I think it's a reasonable possibility that two of the first three picks
03:06are from Ohio State.
03:07How valuable is a non-edge rushing linebacker, like a regular linebacker,
03:14like a Terrell Bernard or Jack Campbell is a good example because that was a
03:17first-round pick with Detroit the same year they took Gibbs, right?
03:21Is there, I think the Bills might be in the market for that at some point.
03:25I mean, I don't know that you've got to do it at 26, you tell us, but is there
03:30somebody that plays like that that is going to be picked really high?
03:35Is there, like, a hot shot, can't miss, interior-type linebacker?
03:41To me, there's not.
03:42I think, I mean, I really like Caleb Alarms-Or from TCU, who's not a big buzzed-about
03:50name.
03:51He reminds me so much of Quincy Williams, who the Bills certainly know well from his
03:54time with the Jets, just that hair on fire, explosive linebacker, good in coverage,
04:00reliable tackler.
04:01It feels like the buzz for him is more day two than in the first round.
04:05But if a team picked him in the first round, like, if the Bills, for as much as
04:08we've talked edge and certainly wide receiver, if the Bills picked him and just
04:12said, hey, we're plugging him in at one of the off-ball linebacker spots, I would
04:15be fine with it.
04:16But other than that, the other name would probably be C.J. Allen, who would get tossed
04:22around, and you've probably seen in some mocks, up to the Bills.
04:25He's younger but experienced.
04:27He has the pedigree coming from Georgia.
04:29I think he is, like, can be a really good player in time.
04:33I just hesitate, and probably why we don't see part of the reason, why we don't see a
04:38lot of off-ball linebackers go in the first round.
04:41They're so green in coverage.
04:43Like, it is very rare to see someone that is ready to be a three-down player and not
04:49get exploited in coverage.
04:50I think of some other first-round linebackers, Jordan Brooks, Kenneth Murray, that were first-round
04:58picks for Sean Evans from Alabama.
05:00First-rounders all picked somewhere in that 20 to 32 range, looked the part, were sculpted,
05:06tested really well, tons of tackles, 100-plus tackles.
05:09But they all have not been very good in the NFL, especially relative to where they were
05:13picked because they're not great in coverage.
05:15So Allen, I think, showed some signs, and he's reasonably athletic, and he's a great
05:20tackler.
05:21He's not going to miss a lot in terms of the reading the play.
05:24But those two, to me, are the most interesting in terms of off-ball linebackers.
05:29And lastly, I don't think we see a lot of linebackers go in the first round because, and I don't
05:34know if we've talked about this yet, the discrepancy, like the surplus value that you
05:38get from having a first-round player at edge, certainly quarterback, or wide receiver is
05:43huge.
05:44The top of the market is now, what, at wide receiver, $42 million a year.
05:49Linebacker, Fred Warner is the highest-paid linebacker in terms of average per year at
05:53only $21 million per year.
05:55So I do think that does factor in maybe more from the numbers side and the financial people
06:00talking to the GMs like, hey, if you draft this guy and he's good, you're not getting
06:04that much surplus value relative to, you know, the last three years, what the Seahawks got
06:09value-wise for JSN before they had to give him that big extension.
06:13Interesting.
06:14Good.
06:15The name Kenneth Murray rings a bell, and red lights flash for me, not that I'm Mr., I'm
06:20not the Greg Cosell of linebacker intel, but I know, like, he was somebody, he was a pretty
06:25hot item when the Chargers drafted him in the first round, and he's on his third team at
06:29least, still pretty young.
06:32The last two players, Chris, I've seen mocked to the Bills are both named Emmanuel, but they're
06:39different players.
06:41Emmanuel McNeil-Warren seems to be trending up, a safety out of Toledo, and I could buy
06:47that the Bills would spend pick 26 on a safety.
06:50And then Emmanuel Pregnon, if I'm pronouncing that correctly, a guard from Oregon.
06:56That'd be fun to talk about.
06:57So, do you have takes on these two Emanuel's?
07:01Yeah, so, Emmanuel McNeil-Warren, I feel like we talked about him early in the process here,
07:06before the Bills signed Chauncey Gardner-Johnson, obviously Geno Stone, to kind of be that, setting
07:12the floor, like, in the safety room.
07:15McNeil-Warren, I have him comped to a skinnier version of Jeremy Chin, who was kind of, I remember
07:21wanting the Bills to draft him in, what, 2020.
07:24He's been kind of rumored over the last couple years in free agency.
07:27He's been a really good player, and is that Nick-A-Man worry of the Mac the last couple
07:32seasons, where he can be your, you're technically in nickel or in dime all the time, but it doesn't
07:38matter because he's big.
07:40He's six foot over 200 pounds, or six foot three, over 200 pounds, freaky athlete, and
07:45made so many splash plays at Toledo.
07:47Now, it was the Mac, so I think that's probably why he could and probably will still be there.
07:52Very, very interesting player.
07:54And then with Pregnon, he's actually my number one interior offensive lineman.
07:58I know the Vega Awani from Penn State, I know we probably haven't talked guards much.
08:04He's like the consensus top guard, but to me, Pregnon is awesome in that he is more athletic
08:13than Awani is.
08:14He has a little bit more length to his game, and I think he's just a better run blocker
08:21and pass protector right now.
08:22I think with Awani in time, a lot of the other people that I've talked to in the industry
08:26are like, oh, he could be like a Quentin Nelson in time.
08:29He's really big and strong and wide.
08:31But Pregnon, I wouldn't say that's a huge need.
08:34But if they don't feel like, hey, we're just going to roll the dice with Austin Corbett
08:40and with Alec Anderson at that left guard spot that's vacated by David Edwards, then
08:47if he's just the best guy available and they can't find a trade-down partner because no
08:51one wants to trade up, Pregnon might just be like the best player on the board and would
08:55really, like he is a pro-ready blocker.
08:58When you watch his film at Oregon, really, really clean.
09:00One thing that I think could, obviously, would create a need if you made a trade, Osiris
09:07Torrance is going into year four.
09:09He's eligible for an extension now.
09:13And that probably is significant, whether it's top of the market or not, like if he gets
09:19to free agency, or even if you wanted to try to head him off.
09:23I don't know how near the top maybe you can give us some opinion about whether you would
09:29invest in Osiris Torrance.
09:31But if the Bills don't like the price tag of that, if you could do all right moving
09:37him, if there were a market for him, then I think I would maybe listen to drafting a guard
09:43at 26.
09:44Yeah, that's a really good point.
09:46I think it's important, especially as we're starting draft month, to think about and lay
09:50out all the potential possibilities, because that certainly is one that I think at this
09:56point, Torrance has played well enough to maybe earn consideration for an extension, but I
10:05don't think he's really improved from his rookie season.
10:09In and of itself, the rookie year in 23 was like, okay, build from here.
10:14The last two seasons, I haven't seen someone that's gotten significantly better.
10:18So no, I don't think it would be close to a top of market deal.
10:22And we do obviously know that Brandon Bean likes to get these extensions done relatively
10:27early before those players can hit the market.
10:30And a lot of the guys like the Terrell Bernards and Christian Benford and even Greg Rousseau,
10:35like it seems to be like there's a reasonable understanding with Bean and a lot of these players
10:39and their agents like, look, you're a good player.
10:42You can test and try to get top five money, but you can also just have the job security now
10:47a year early before an injury.
10:49So I think keeping someone like Osiris Torrance is probably not the worst idea.
10:55But do I think the bill should even approach like top 10 money at the guard position?
11:01Not necessarily.
11:02Now, again, maybe that possibility presents itself where all the receivers are gone.
11:08The addressers aren't there.
11:09You can't trade back.
11:10And you just say, look, we're going to draft the best available player, that offensive line
11:14and talk about shelf life.
11:16It's the opposite of running backs.
11:17You can have that guy on your roster like the Bills have seen with like a Deion Dawkins
11:21for like 10 years.
11:22And I really think that Pregnon can be good right now.
11:25And there's room for him to get better, even though he is a little bit of an older prospect.
11:29So I think that is something that maybe is kind of in the back of the Bills' minds going
11:33into draft weekend, because I think it's not really flashy.
11:36It's a very, very good interior offensive line class, both at center and at guard.
11:41Chris Trapasso, draftgradebook.com.
11:45Mike Schoep and the Bulldog here.
11:46Chris joins us Wednesdays leading up to the NFL draft, which opens first round in Pittsburgh,
11:51April 23rd.
11:54All right.
11:54Well, we've covered players we have never talked about.
11:57Let's talk wide receivers.
12:00What's your latest number?
12:02Got to do it.
12:03What's your latest number of receivers going in round one?
12:06I'm thinking it might be, give or take one, like five.
12:12So I'll say that's maybe not the best question to ask me, because I've taken this hiatus
12:16from mock drafts.
12:17If this was a year ago, I would certainly be able to answer that really well.
12:21I think anywhere between four and six.
12:26It wouldn't surprise me either way, which I guess is kind of hedging on both sides, but
12:31that if we get to pick 13, 14, 15, and we're like, oh, a receiver hasn't gone yet, or only
12:39one has gone.
12:40Because I think for as much as it's a very flashy position, seemingly a lot of teams need
12:45them and want more of them.
12:47I think the general consensus from a few people that I've talked to in the scouting world are
12:52like, yeah, they're good.
12:53Like Mekhi Lemon, very good.
12:54He has a nice profile.
12:55Very much like Aminorah St. Brown, like Carnell Tate, same thing, but only one major year
13:02of production at Ohio State and didn't test through the roof.
13:06Jordan Tyson, breakout year at age 18 at Arizona State.
13:11The hamstrings are a concern.
13:13Casey Concepcion, I love him.
13:15A lot of people do like him, but the drops are a concern.
13:17So everyone of the perceived top three or four are not necessarily perfect prospects
13:24or don't emphatically check all of the boxes.
13:26So I think those four, and then maybe Omar Cooper could be that fifth player at the wide
13:33receiver spot, which has kind of become par for the course that we normally have between
13:37four and six receivers.
13:38Sometimes, like in the Keon Coleman year, what was it?
13:41Six or seven that could ultimately go in the first round.
13:43Yeah.
13:44Coleman was wide receiver eight at pick 33.
13:46I agree, so seven in the first round is correct.
13:50Where are you on Tyson?
13:52I know we've talked about him before.
13:53He's one of the most highly rated, and there's a lot of debate about him because of the injury
13:59thing.
13:59Where do you land on him?
14:02Let's say there's enough concern about the injury stuff with him that he doesn't go early,
14:08and it gets to be where you're 15, 20.
14:12The Bills are within striking distance, and he's still there.
14:15Now, there would be other receivers there, but is there a moment where it becomes, okay,
14:22cost-benefit analysis, the ceiling is so high.
14:25If he does stay healthy, you should make a move, or is he like a no-fly zone entirely for
14:30you?
14:31No.
14:32He is not a no-fly zone for me.
14:34He's not in the Keon Coleman range where he was in 2024.
14:36And I'll kind of set the scene for this answer with two things.
14:41Number one, Jordan Tyson right now is my number 28 overall player, so I think he's right in
14:46that striking distance of the Bills.
14:49And my range comparisons for him go from Jacoby Myers to Keenan Allen.
14:54Like, he's that type of fluid, inside-outside, savvy route runner, but not going to give you
15:02much after the catch at all.
15:04Going to catch pretty much everything.
15:06Will make the difficult grabs.
15:08Will make the diving catches at his feet.
15:11Will not have a lot of drops.
15:13And is just not someone that you're going to push the ball vertically down the field with.
15:17So, he's someone that if these hamstring injuries that he's had, and the fact that he couldn't
15:22work out at the Combine or the Arizona State Pro Day, if that's why he's either available
15:28at 26 or gets close enough to the Bills where they're like, man, this is a young prospect
15:33that was the number one guy at 18 years old at Arizona State, even though I think he's technically
15:39my wide receiver five, I would be totally fine with him because of the position and because
15:45what I think Bulldog and I have kind of agreed on, I think you too, Mike, the separation
15:49ability is so vital, I think, to this Bills wide receiver group.
15:53And he absolutely brings that.
15:54He has, I don't want to say Justin Jefferson's ability, but he has like that kind of style
15:59of Justin Jefferson where he's very flexible and can use some of that bendiness and explosion
16:05to get open at all three levels of the field.
16:08Chris, what do you think the Seahawks should be hoping for at 32?
16:12Is that a team that, like a Super Bowl winner can be, can do whatever it wants?
16:17Is there any bad idea for Seattle?
16:19I'm thinking about CEH.
16:21We talk about, you know, the fantasy stuff on ADP chasing like last night, and maybe that's
16:27a team that thinks it has the luxury, if you will, to do that, whether that's Darian Price
16:32or someone else or maybe a receiver.
16:34Like, I feel like the Seahawks, they just hit the jackpot on defense and, you know, offensive
16:40line too in last year's draft.
16:42At the same time, I kind of think that their skill position, you know, sets are not perfect.
16:49They let Kenneth Walker leave, but also, I mean, they're really good.
16:53So what do you like for them?
16:55I think edge rusher.
16:56I think losing Boye Mafe and the fact that they're looking at Demarcus Lawrence, Uchenna
17:04Nuosu as kind of their primary rush defensive ends that are both up there in age at this
17:12point.
17:12I know Leonard Williams is great on the interior as kind of that 3-4 defensive end.
17:17Byron Murphy's there.
17:18But even like Jaron Reed, who's up into his 30s at defensive tackle, I think up front
17:23for that team, it's kind of been going from Pete Carroll now to Mike McDonald.
17:28I think with the same GM, John Schneider, when they've been really good in getting to Super
17:33Bowls and winning Super Bowls, they've been really just super deep, like we saw in the
17:37Super Bowl, and ferocious along the defensive line.
17:40So I agree.
17:41Like the skill positions are not great outside of the reigning offensive player of the year
17:47in JSN.
17:48So if they went wide receiver, I wouldn't think that's crazy either.
17:51I'm not the biggest believer, though, that they should go running back just because of
17:55the obvious Ken Walker situation.
17:57I think they could draft one later.
17:59And that's also what's baked into that is I don't love this running back class outside
18:05of Jeremiah Love, which I think we talked about.
18:06And I think going edge rusher or wide receiver would make more sense for them, too.
18:11It will be interesting who they line up week one, though, because Charbonnet's coming off
18:16a torn ACL.
18:17That happened maybe in the playoffs.
18:19So they signed Emmanuel Wilson from Green Bay.
18:22Like, is he week one starter or is a day two rookie their week one starter?
18:26I don't know.
18:27Yeah, maybe.
18:28Did you mention Jeremiah Love when we were talking top five?
18:32He's another great guy.
18:34You did.
18:34It seems like, I mean, that's almost the second most telegraphed pairing beyond Mendoza going
18:42to the Raiders.
18:43The Tennessee Titans, just with a little bit of what they've built and Cam Ward coming
18:48into his second season, that they just have a glaring, I mean, I guess some people have
18:51a glaring need at running back or having that feature back.
18:55And Jeremiah Love is, I think, up there in that rarefied air of like the Bijan and the
18:59Jameer Gibbs in terms of he can be your home run hitter, you can throw him the football,
19:05and he can be a 1,200-yard running back that catches 40, 50 passes and be a 1,500
19:11-plus
19:11yards from scrimmage player on his rookie deal.
19:14That's, we were talking about him last night, too.
19:16Has any franchise ever needed like a star at a skilled position like the Titans, you
19:22know, with D'Abel there now?
19:24Did we learn anything at Indiana's Pro Day today about Mendoza or anybody else who took
19:28part, Cooper?
19:29Cooper, I guess.
19:30D'Angelo Pons, that tiny corner that was just all over the football, like all season,
19:38he's like 5'9", 165, plays a lot bigger and is incredibly twitchy.
19:45He ran 4'3", 1, and I believe he ran somewhere in the low 4'3", at the Combine, too,
19:51which
19:51is pretty unusual for a guy to have, or no, he didn't run at the Combine.
19:54He had a 43-1⁄2-inch vertical at the Combine, so he showed like, wow, super explosive, did
20:00not run there, then ran 4'3", 1 today, and is someone that, to me, I mean, we were just
20:07talking Seahawks and we're talking Bills, like he is right in there between Devin Witherspoon
20:13and Antoine Winfield Sr., like he is that type of small, super feisty, pesky player.
20:20I didn't see what the wide receivers, if Cooper or Surratt ran, I think it was just going
20:24on this afternoon, and apparently Mendoza threw the ball on air really well, which should come
20:29as no surprise.
20:29Right, yeah, I saw it like 63 for 66 with three drops or something, is what I saw.
20:35Tecmo.
20:36Yeah, I'm asking you what happened, but I knew that stat, because I did see that.
20:40That takes me back to like Madden on easy.
20:42Right?
20:43Just going to throw every play, see if I can get to 100.
20:46All right, Chris, thanks for your time as always.
20:48Guys, how's the site going?
20:50It's going really well.
20:51I'm seeing a little uptick in traffic, obviously, which is just, I think, aligning with it being
20:57draft season.
20:57And if you go to the site now, I have a draft day mode preview, which is like the homepage
21:02where I will have from the 23rd through the 25th, all three days of the draft, like a draft
21:08tracker, best available, team hubs where you can like click on the Bills picks and see all
21:12their selections to get scouting reports there.
21:14Their biggest reaches will be outlined, biggest steals.
21:18So I'm trying to show, just to kind of celebrate the start of draft month, a look at what draft
21:24day mode will look like at the end of April.
21:26Yeah, that's cool.
21:27I came across that earlier this morning and tweeted it out to promote that you were going
21:31to be on with us.
21:32So maybe I'll give it a bump down too, because I think that's a really cool thing for any
21:37fans to just follow along with, you know, if they're a fan of your work, that's a really
21:41cool thing to do on draft night, I think, so.
21:43Yep.
21:44Yeah, thank you, guys.
21:45Thank you, Chris.
21:46Talk to you next week.
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