- 15 hours ago
Find out why the Lions are asking Ragnow for his signing bonus back.
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00:00Tiger Talk, if you want to continue down that road, 248-539-9797.
00:07Story came out, Rob Wood, who is for some reason being interviewed a whole bunch and speaking a lot
00:16after announcing he's retiring in his role as president.
00:19I guess he's not done, so everybody's maybe asking to interview him before he's done.
00:25I feel like he's lit the fuse on a bunch of stuff here.
00:31Rob Wood confirmed to Dave Burkett of the Free Press that the Lions have asked for a prorated portion of
00:34Frank Ragnar's signing bonus back.
00:37Now, they've done this before.
00:38We went through a whole debate when the organization did it with Calvin, and they've done it on other occasions.
00:44They did it with Barry.
00:45They did it with Barry Sanders.
00:46Signing bonuses work this way, and that is to make the numbers nice and round.
00:52Let's say you sign a five-year, $10 million contract with a $5 million signing bonus.
01:01So the way that works is your money against the cap is $2 million a year, but you get $5
01:08million up front.
01:11So $5 of the $10 million you get is the signing bonus.
01:15In the case of Ragnar, he had a $6 million signing bonus on, I believe, a four-year contract, and
01:22after two of the four years, he retired.
01:25Why would you ask for the money back?
01:30Well, I think it comes across as cheap and ungrateful to a guy who did a lot for you, but
01:40you ask for the money back because you get cap relief.
01:44And that is a very practical thing.
01:46And you know how I was just saying about Verlander and exploring whether or not long-term he might end
01:51up in the bullpen here?
01:53Every resource.
01:54I'm a believer if you're running an organization, you need to think of, and I believe this with Calvin, and
02:00I believe it with Ragnar now.
02:02And that is you have to take advantage of every resource available to you to better your football team.
02:09If they get $3 million of cap relief by asking for the signing bonus back, two of their biggest free
02:17agent signings count $3 million against the cap this year.
02:22And Cade Mays and DJ Wonham.
02:24They'll count more next year, but that's what they count now.
02:28And I have an expectation for them as players.
02:32And if you, especially Mays, we'll see on Wonham.
02:36Dan Campbell talked about him yesterday and why he likes him so much.
02:39And we'll play that for you a little bit later on.
02:42But if the signing bonus, if recouping the signing bonus gets you cap space, I'm okay with that.
02:51That's part of the business.
02:53And is the business cruel?
02:54Is the business unfair?
02:56I mean, it is, but it's business.
02:59And I believe that when there were less competent people running this organization.
03:06Okay?
03:07And I certainly believe it now.
03:10Because if you tell me you're going to get that cap space back and can go get a player, and
03:15you're not going to get a great player.
03:18But every little bit helps.
03:19$3 million is not a lot.
03:22But when you put it in terms of what kind of player is that, that's what Wonham and Cade Mays,
03:25according to SpotTrack, that's their hit on the cap this year.
03:28Yeah, I do not like this.
03:30I didn't like it with Barry.
03:32I didn't like it with Calvin.
03:32And I certainly don't like it with Frank Ragnow.
03:35I've always thought that a bonus is just that.
03:37It's a bonus.
03:38I get that it's a shell game when it comes to the cap and all that.
03:41But the way that contracts are structured and the way the NFL allows them to be structured is it's all
03:49the leverage is with the owners.
03:52The owners can shut things down real quick, and the teams can cut you at any moment.
03:56And then we're talking about dead cap hit money and money you thought you were getting and guaranteed.
04:02It's not because these contracts aren't guaranteed like they are in other sports.
04:06And I don't like that.
04:07I don't like how the NFL is allowed for so much wiggle room and finagling when it comes to their
04:13cap.
04:13It's so damn confusing.
04:15This is the most brutal sport of the four majors that we have, and careers are cut short all the
04:22time.
04:23And when you got a warrior like Frank Ragnow, who played through all of those injuries and finally made the
04:28decision to hang it up, albeit it was not the best time for him to make that decision for the
04:32Lions, doing it after the draft.
04:35He did try to come back last year, and then the physical reveal that he had like a torn hamstring
04:43or something, and then he failed that.
04:46It just, the guy was a warrior, and he gave it all, and a signing bonus is a signing bonus
04:51as far as I'm concerned.
04:52So I don't like that.
04:54And I think it's ironic that in order for the Lions to go ahead and sign those guys, it came
05:03not only at the expense of waiving Taylor Decker,
05:08but it also came with a restructure of a contract from Jared Goff that converts money to a signing bonus.
05:16So I just, I don't like how all this works out.
05:19I think it makes teams look petty at times, and it is a business.
05:25There's no doubt it's a business.
05:26I don't like this side of the business, and I wish it would change, and it's a whole beef that
05:31I have with the contract structures that they have and what they allow in the NFL.
05:35So look, you know, it's the harsh reality of the game.
05:42I mean, it really is.
05:44And so if you were running the organization, you would just let the cap space go?
05:50Yes.
05:51Okay.
05:52I would not, and I'm glad that our team isn't.
05:58Now, do I feel like maybe that this is a bit of a sign that the honeymoon period is over
06:02in that they are doing something that they did before when there were less competent people running the organization?
06:08The competence to me isn't measured by this decision.
06:12But even Taylor Decker coming out and saying what he said about how he doesn't feel like he was treated
06:16appropriately when he was let go in terms of he wanted phone calls.
06:20He wanted thank yous.
06:21So there wasn't any communication.
06:23Yep.
06:24And then, so Dave Burkett tweeted out three hours ago, when he retired last year, Frank Ragnow became the latest
06:30longtime Detroit Lion who had to repay part of his signing bonus.
06:33And then there's a link to a story he's got, talks about Calvin Johns, talks about Barry Sanders, and with
06:38Rod Wood and Rod Wood saying, this is what we've done.
06:41We've always done it like this.
06:42And the Lions at least have that history of always doing this.
06:46I don't like their policy, but it's their policy.
06:48I can disagree with it, but it is what it is.
06:51Alex Anzalone replied to that tweet and said, played through fractured throat, one week post-meniscus cleanup with stitches barely
07:01out, inoperable, unrepairable toe, etc.
07:04Hey, let me get that prorated signing bonus back.
07:08And then it's got three laughing emojis with the tears coming out.
07:10And then it says, do business as business is being done.
07:15Let's be clear here.
07:17Decker's complained.
07:18Anzalone has complained.
07:20I don't think there's anything from Ragnow yet, though, is there?
07:22I haven't seen Frank Ragnow say anything.
07:24Although I don't know what do business as business is being done means.
07:27I think that just means from a player's standpoint, you've got to be as cutthroat as the owners are going
07:32to be, or as the teams are going to be.
07:33I should say, I don't know if it's an ownership thing.
07:34It's a team thing.
07:35It's an NFL thing.
07:36Kang, what do you make of this?
07:38Oh, man.
07:39It's like, there's a lot of gray area here.
07:42Like, I think, yes, it's a football business, but it's also a people business.
07:46And for a team and organization that prides itself on giving, on culture, and doing everything then for the team,
07:52I think you have to give back a little bit yourself.
07:55You don't even know if you're going to preach that thing.
07:56Because if they keep doing this precedent thing, like, hey, we do it with Barry, we do it with Calvin,
08:00we do it with Ragnow, then at some point, I think the veterans you have on the team may be
08:03like, they're going to cut me, or they're going to stab me in the back at some point, too.
08:07You know what I mean?
08:08So I think you've got to walk this line where, yeah, I think you have to worry about the cap.
08:12The cap is a real thing for the most part, I think, whether we want to believe it or not.
08:16But there's money issues, right?
08:18Cap restraints.
08:19But also, like I said, it comes with, this is a people business, too.
08:23So I think you do have to give back a little bit, Doug, and other players and people that you're
08:27going to sign and bring into the building see that, too.
08:29Here's the one thing I would say.
08:30If you think this is a move that you would not make, then you don't forfeit your right to complain
08:38about what they don't do for cap purposes.
08:42If you don't want them to maximize how much money they spend and have to spend on the cap, then
08:51I don't know that you can complain about them trying to save money everywhere they can.
08:57I feel like those two things are in conflict with one another.
09:01And we get a lot of people who are mad that they haven't spent on bigger ticket items.
09:07And if you are in that category, fine, fair.
09:10It's a different way.
09:11They have different beliefs of how they're doing it, how you would do it.
09:14But can you also then turn around and say, but we don't want you to do everything you can to
09:20maximize your cap space?
09:23Because I feel like those two things are the exact opposite.
09:26Would you rather than maximize the cap space by having, you know, restructure another contract for a player or ask
09:34for money back from a guy who's given everything he can to this organization as a player?
09:38There's no reason you can't do it all.
09:41And I hope that they are doing everything they can.
09:43Man, something that Brad Holmes said last week that I thought was really interesting in that sit-down was because
09:49bills come due, you have to space out your restructures so that when the bill comes due for golf, it
09:56also doesn't come due for Aminra.
09:58That we have to restructure Aminra for it to be on a different timeline than golf.
10:03So that makes sense.
10:05But at the end of the day, you know, there's, you know what I want most?
10:09I want them to do everything they can in their power to win a Super Bowl.
10:12And this feels like it's part of it.
10:13But understand that all this starts from my disdain for the salary cap system that the NFL has.
10:20Okay.
10:20Because I think it's utterly ridiculous.
10:22But it is what it is, right?
10:23And this is how this is the world we're operating in.
10:25But it is there.
10:26So that's, I mean, you and I will disagree and we're not going to punch each other over it.
10:30But I don't, I don't keep pushing, keep chirping.
10:35But I just, I don't, I think it's a horrible look.
10:38And I think we have lost the honeymoon period when it comes to this leadership group with
10:44the Lions between Dan Campbell and Brad Holmes and the Detroit Lions and the team.
10:48I think the honeymoon period is over.
10:50Now it is all business because there are too many things that have happened in a row here
10:55that make it seem like it's absolutely business.
10:57There's off-season Detroit Lions and there's in-season Detroit Lions.
11:00Once they're in season, these guys are all together as a team.
11:03That's the culture they've built.
11:04But when it gets to the off-season and the business side kicks in, I mean, he had last
11:08year with Alex Anzalone and where they're going to, he wanted more money and they gave him
11:12just a little bit of a bump.
11:13And, and then you've got the Decker thing this off-season.
11:16Now they're asking for Ragnar, they asked for Ragnar's, a portion of his, of his signing
11:21bonus back.
11:22That stuff's going to rub players the wrong way.
11:24Not every team does it the way the Lions do.
11:26And it doesn't mean the Lions are right or wrong.
11:28It just means the teams do it different ways.
11:30You can agree or disagree with it.
11:31I disagree with it.
11:32You agree with it.
11:33You're more pragmatic.
11:35You want the cap space and any way you can get cap space, go ahead and do it.
11:38And, and that's great.
11:39But what happens when they don't use the cap space?
11:42Well, I would prefer that they use it.
11:44Like I said, every resource available to you, I think you should take advantage of to help
11:48you win at the highest level.
11:50We'll get to your phone calls and feedback next.
11:5297.1.
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