00:00Music
00:10Hello and good evening, I'm Melissa Idris. Welcome to Consider This.
00:14This is the show where we want you to consider and then reconsider what you know of the news of
00:18the day.
00:19A redrawing of Sarawak's electoral map is underway, but it's the politics happening before the map is even finalised that's
00:28raising eyebrows.
00:28Allegations that new seats are already being divided among parties have put the spotlight on whether the delineation process is
00:36truly independent.
00:38So joining me on the show to discuss what the process entails is political scientist, Professor Wong Chin Huat,
00:45who is the Deputy Head of Strategy for the Asia Headquarters of the UN Sustainable Development Solutions Network at Sunway
00:52University.
00:53Prof Chin Huat is also a member of the Project Sustainability and Accountability, also known as Project Summer.
01:01Chin Huat, welcome to the show. Thank you so much for joining me.
01:04Let's talk about what's happening with the controversy in Sarawak.
01:08At the heart of this is the delineation process by the Election Commission.
01:12Can you maybe briefly begin our conversation by explaining what is supposed to happen and why the current situation is
01:19raising red flags?
01:21Thanks for having me, Melissa.
01:24The Sarawak State Assembly has amended the law and it has come into effect since July 15 last year.
01:36The State Assembly would have 99 seats.
01:39And the Sarawak State Assembly is supposed to complete the redelineation all the way up to the submission of its
01:51report to the Prime Minister in two years' time.
01:54After that, the Prime Minister would table their proposal to the parliament which would be voted on and to be
02:02passed with one half of the Dewan Rakyat members.
02:06So, 111 seats, Woods.
02:09And the process has not started.
02:12Once it started, what happened is that the state government, the local authorities and any groups of 100 voters affected
02:25by the new boundary,
02:27they can submit their opinion, call representation to the EC, and the EC must call them to a private inquiry.
02:38In fact, anyone getting affected, you can write to the EC.
02:41The EC should consider your will.
02:43They just do not have to call you to the inquiry.
02:46Now, what has become controversial is that before this whole process started, at the beginning of this month,
02:54a document has been leaked showing allegedly GPS, the ruling collations in Sarawak, has had its own plan.
03:06And this plan has been communicated to the EC or drafted together with some people in the EC because someone
03:14in CAPIT actually posted the whole process with photos which make the leaked document look very convincing.
03:26So, if that's true, we are in trouble because the EC is supposed to be a public institution while GPS
03:37or any parties, they are private actors.
03:41How can private actors dictate what's the position, what's the decision of the EC?
03:47That would make the whole thing reminiscence of the lingam tape when lawyer decides which judges should be appointed or
03:58the corporate mafia scandal where businessman instructed the MACC to conduct investigation.
04:08Right. Okay. So, there are serious concerns here.
04:11And what you're saying is that nothing should be finalized until the report comes out from the EC.
04:18When we talk about how the EC looks at redrawing boundaries at Chin Huat, are there formal criteria that the
04:26EC has to follow?
04:28Or is it really up to their discretion how they want to redraw the boundaries?
04:33Yes, certainly.
04:34The federal constitution has the criteria spelled out in the 13th schedule, most importantly in two parts, subsection 2C and
04:452D.
04:46This is what you have in the subsection 2C.
04:49The number of electors within each constituency in the state ought to be approximately equal.
04:56In Malay, lebih kurang sama banyak.
04:58Except that, having regard to the greater difficulty of reaching electors in the country district and the other disadvantages facing
05:08rural constituency,
05:10a measure of weightage for area ought to be given to such constituency.
05:16Let me explain in simple English what it says.
05:18Within the same state, the constituency should be approximately equal.
05:22What do we mean by that?
05:24Before 1973, this was actually mathematically spelled out.
05:31What it says is that you can say 2 is approximately equal to 1, but you can't be more than
05:372.
05:38Now, that has been removed, but it doesn't give the EC a blank check to designate any number to be
05:46approximately equal to 1.
05:47Again, what's the current situation is the largest seats is 7 to 1 to the smallest seats.
05:55So, we clearly know the existing map is unconstitutional.
05:59Now, what about the weightage for area?
06:01What it means is that you can have lesser waters than others if your constituency is really huge.
06:11And it's very hard for you to reach those areas.
06:14It's not, again, not a blanket permission for you to say, oh, this is a rural area and we have
06:23to give them over-representation.
06:25No.
06:25And so, what we are talking about here is that in Sarawak, you have constituency like Ururajang, which is as
06:33big as Pahang, Baram, as big as Perak.
06:38All those constituency, they deserve to have less waters, but not any rural constituency.
06:45Right.
06:47So, specific to Sarawak, because Sarawak's geography is quite unique in Malaysia with its large rural constituency, its large terrain.
06:57Are there any areas in the constitution that address for the geographical uniqueness of Sarawak?
07:05Actually, it's true for all the states.
07:08If you are huge and it's very hard to reach, then you're entitled to have less voters.
07:13But it's just not a blanket concession for any constituency that claims themselves to be inland.
07:22The main reason is that Malaysia has been so urbanized, even in Sarawak, right?
07:27Right.
07:28And other factors, other criteria that's been spelt out in the constitution that the EC must follow?
07:35Yes.
07:36We have subsection 2D from the same 13th schedule that say, regard ought to be had to the inconveniences attendant
07:46on alterations of constituency and to the maintenance of local types.
07:52So, I want to show you an interesting example.
07:55Now, in the area of Sarawak, there's a small town called Bintango.
08:04It is actually on the southern bank of the river Rejang, but it has been included to P206, Tanjung Manis,
08:16which is the rest of the constituency.
08:19It's on the northern bank of the river, so this is a clear-cut example of how subsection 2D has
08:28been viewfully violated by the Election Commission in the last delineation in 2015.
08:38Okay.
08:39And when we think about how the EC's map could look like, what are you watching out for, Chin Huat,
08:48to see whether there are legitimate boundary adjustments as opposed to elements of gerrymandering and malapportionment?
08:57Thank you very much.
08:58So, this delineation is triggered by the addition of 17 seats, from a total of 82 to 99.
09:10So, when we think about this, the first thing we want to look at is equal apportionment, with the exceptions
09:18of extremely large rural seats.
09:23So, what it means is that when you think about the 17th constituency, you would first think, ask and say,
09:30where are the overcrowded existing constituency now?
09:34Because you want to add the new seats, so then you equalize them, right?
09:39That's simple common sense practices.
09:42So, where we know where the seats are, it would be actually around Kuching, from the northern coast of Sarawak,
09:52north of Kuching, all the way south of Kuching to Punjab, Borneo.
09:57These are the areas where you have to add.
09:59The second area is near Cebu and Lanang, where they are overcrowded.
10:05The third area would be from Miri to Siputi.
10:09This is where they are also overcrowded, that you need to add new seats.
10:13Now, the 17 new seats should be largely between this area, or alternatively, you could be in some of the
10:21local seats in Ururajang, Baram, Bintulu, Selangal.
10:28Because these are very large constituency.
10:31Some of them are as large as Kedah.
10:33So, it makes sense for you to make them smaller.
10:36This is what we would expect from Common Sense, if you want to abide by the constitutional provision, a requirement.
10:47However, based on the leaked document, it doesn't look exactly like this.
10:54We do have some that actually follow through.
10:57For example, they do add the seats in Baram, they add seats in Miri, they add seats in Cebu, but
11:08in the greater Kuching area, they skip Bandar Kuching.
11:12They add one seats in Mascading, they add seats in Kapit instead of Ururajang.
11:23And, but the most interesting thing is that they add seats in Tanjung Manis and also in Mukha.
11:32These are underrepresented and underpopulated seats.
11:37Why do you need to add seats there?
11:38So, these are the whole questions that we have to ask.
11:41Right.
11:42Now, if we look at the map based on parliamentary seats, because we, the whole process involves both.
11:50We do not separate parliamentary seats from state seats because our parliamentary seats consisting of state seats.
11:59Our state seats are nested within parliamentary seats, like a Russian door.
12:03So, in this case, we look at the parliamentary seats and where they should be.
12:08One obvious case is Bintulu because Bintulu is overcrowded.
12:13But Bintulu doesn't get any new seats.
12:16So, that's something funny.
12:18Okay.
12:19Chin Huat, so the question is that when the EC releases their report,
12:24if the new seats are not as you laid out or are as the leaked documents,
12:32what concerns does that raise to you about the EC's redelineation process?
12:39Now, that shows that the EC might have been compromised.
12:43And this is serious because that it would actually undermine the power of Sarawakian people.
12:50We have to understand, democracy is about people selecting their politician.
12:59But if you allow politicians to gerrymander or male abortion constituency,
13:07then it's the politician that selects their voters.
13:13So, you turn the table around and the problem means that you have no control of your politician.
13:19How can you make sure that they serve your best interests?
13:23I know every time we talk about this, someone will say,
13:25but Wong Chin Huat, you're from Malaya.
13:27How dare you to tell us what it is?
13:29Don't worry about this.
13:31You don't have to believe in me.
13:32You don't have to believe in anyone.
13:35This is pure, simple mathematics.
13:37You just use your calculator to check whether things are right.
13:42You know Sarawak geography better than any one of us out here.
13:46Protect your best interests.
13:49Use the constitutionally provided power to make sure you would have a set of constituency boundary
13:58that serves your interests.
14:00Well, it's all there in the data and evidence.
14:03Professor Wong Chin Huat, political scientist from Sunway University there.
14:07We're going to take a quick break on Consider This.
14:09We'll be back with more.
14:10Stay tuned.
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