- 3 hours ago
Catch up with all the latest politics news across the county, with Rob Bailey.
On this episode we were joined by Cllr Roger Roud, Liberal Democrat from Tonbridge and Malling Borough Council, and Ollie Leader, Local Democracy Reporter for the South East.
On this episode we were joined by Cllr Roger Roud, Liberal Democrat from Tonbridge and Malling Borough Council, and Ollie Leader, Local Democracy Reporter for the South East.
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TVTranscript
00:22Welcome to the Kemp Politics Show on KMTV. I'm Rob Bailey and we start this week with
00:27an unlikely question. What has the future king done to upset Faversham? It all revolves
00:32around a controversial plan to build 2,500 homes to the south of the town. It will effectively
00:38increase the size of Faversham by 25%. And it's all happening on land owned by the Duchy
00:44of Cornwall. That's 340 acres of farmland controlled by Prince William. Despite objections
00:50from 460 residents, Swell Council gave it the green light this week. And with Faversham
00:55and Mid-Kent expected to grow by 20,000 homes in the future, it's going to become a familiar
01:00story. Megan Shaw reports.
01:03Objection after objection. An amendment after amendment marked the committee meeting that
01:09gave 2,500 homes in Faversham, backed by Prince William, the green light.
01:22The sprawling development is situated between the A2 and the M2 in South East Faversham and
01:29includes pre-existing features like the Faversham Town Football Club. But campaigners and objectors
01:35are saying that the existing infrastructure for these quite small rural villages and towns
01:41simply isn't big enough to accommodate a much larger development. Town councillors and campaigners
01:48took to the floor to express their concerns.
01:51Development on designated green space. Where does all the traffic go when there's a crash?
01:59The South East Faversham will be a car-dependent dormitory development.
02:02Not disappointed but not remotely surprised because we always thought this was a done deal,
02:09partly because of the identity of the applicant. I mean, is Swell really going to refuse the
02:16heir to the throne and his pet project?
02:19Swell Borough Council has received hundreds of objections, including a letter from local
02:24MP Helen Whateley. Yet developers have described the estate as a sustainable urban expansion, with
02:31the homes allegedly set to be net zero. 400 of these houses have been earmarked as social
02:37rent homes, and 475 as affordable and shared ownership. The Duchy didn't want to speak to
02:43me at the meeting, but a statement from Sandkirkness explained.
02:47Committed to building healthy communities, the Duchy of Cornwall has worked closely with
02:51local residents, stakeholders and statutory partners throughout the planning process, shaping proposals
02:57that balance housing delivery with environmental stewardship, infrastructure provision and long-term
03:04community wellbeing. But with development not to start for another year, to continue for 20,
03:10is it too early to condemn the estate as nothing but a royal pain?
03:15Megan Shaw in Faversham.
03:17With me in the studio is Liberal Democrat Roger Roud from Tunbridge and Morling and local
03:22democracy reporter Olly Leda. Thank you for joining me. And it's interesting, I've been taking a bit of a snapshot
03:28because that's, we've been looking at Faversham there, but this isn't a Faversham issue, this is
03:32Kent and beyond issue. It's going to become a familiar story. Just this week in Kent, we've got 2,500
03:39homes, as we've
03:40seen there, approved by Swell Council, despite quite significant opposition from the community. Last night,
03:46Medway Council approved 760 homes in Who, despite one councillor saying that the proposal was
03:52unsustainable. And in Canterbury, at Littlebourne, 300 homes approved by the Planning Inspectorate, who
03:58overruled local concerns. Roger, it's time and time again, isn't it? And do you think that there is an
04:04increasing pressure now on councils to put local concerns to one side and approve house building?
04:10Indeed. One of the major problems, certainly with Tunbridge and Morling, is we don't have a
04:14current local plan. And that is one of our problems. We are hit with a thing called the
04:20tilted balance, which means we have to approve it, unless there is a very good reason not to. And
04:30we're under pressure to actually build, I mean, in Tunbridge and Morling, we're looking at sort
04:34of around 20,000 homes in the course of our emerging local plan. And that's a lot of property.
04:43Just on Wednesday evening, we deferred a planning application for 1300 on what is a world-famous
04:52research centre on East Morling Research. And we deferred that. One of the reasons being,
04:58there was not enough, South East Water said they couldn't actually support it. We've come up with a few
05:05other things. There's a Kemp Minerals plan as well that's being looked at at the moment and
05:09this site is very, very close to one of the best quality quarries in the county. And one of our
05:20members said, without good quality ragstone, you can't build houses. So we think underneath where
05:27they're planning to build these houses is a ragstone site. So we deferred the whole site. But that's,
05:34that was just 1300. But it's certainly in the ward that I represent, we're looking at probably getting
05:38on for 5,000 homes in one of our, in one ward. So yeah, it's a problem, I think.
05:44And it's, I mean, you said about the 20,000 homes that Tunbridge and Morling is looking at doing over
05:49a period to 2042. What's interesting about that is, is that that's well beyond the level of house
05:56building that's already happening. So the current delivery in Tunbridge and Morling, I think is,
06:02well, certainly across Kent, it's about 8,000 homes a year at the moment, I think. We're talking about a
06:08huge increase over that being demanded by the government. And people would say that the current level is
06:13already too much. It is. A lot of, we, we get obviously a lot of calls from our local residents
06:20and they're saying, where's the demand? Where are all these people that want these properties?
06:25Most seem to be coming from London. They want to live in the Kent countryside. Well, good luck to them.
06:31Because there's not going to be a Kent countryside for long. It used to be the Garden of England.
06:36It's now rapidly turning into a patio. So it's, it's just an unbelievable situation.
06:42We are just taking far too much building work. The infrastructure cannot, cannot support it.
06:52For anybody that knows my part of the world, you know, to get to the hospital in Maidstone
06:56can take you anything from 15 to 30 minutes just to get from the main A20 London road to the
07:04hospital,
07:05which is probably only more than about two miles.
07:07I'll bring, bring Oli in at this point. Oli, as a local democracy reporter, you're, you're covering these
07:11kind of issues across Kent. We've heard there about the local planning process where land is, is identified
07:19as being suitable for development. Are we, are we in a bit of a kind of gold rush period at
07:23the moment
07:23where developers are desperately trying to launch these big projects because the government is basically saying
07:29they want lots of houses to be built.
07:31No, I mean, the government has like a 1.5 million house target for the end of this parliament.
07:36There's no doubt that they want to see more housing, but the truth of the matter is, is local government
07:43reorganization.
07:44That's a big concern of councils at the moment. They're trying to get local plans through so they can secure
07:50how their development targets work going forward in their local areas before LGR comes in,
07:57before new councils come in that may have different priorities or cover different areas.
08:02And developers are trying to get in before those local plans come in.
08:05So you're now in a gold rush rat race where you have developers trying to beat the council.
08:09The council are trying to beat the government and the government just simply want to build more houses.
08:13But also you've got to understand that planning is quasi judicial.
08:17There's actually not a lot of councils can do to stop developments either way,
08:22because it's not designed around necessarily whether someone's upset about the green space in their local area
08:28or whether it's going to be an ISO.
08:30It's designed around housing need and demands imposed by central government,
08:35which they say is necessary. We are in a housing crisis after all.
08:39So, in some ways, councils' hands are tied.
08:44We can't be surprised when most of these housing plans go through despite local opposition.
08:51You are a member of a planning committee, obviously, Roger.
08:54I mean, so you're first-hand of this. Do you feel that hands are tied?
08:58Does that sound like a fair description?
09:01Indeed. I mean, as a planning committee, lots of the members come up with reasons
09:08why they don't think these properties should be built.
09:11And our officers, which are our experts, I mean, we employ them to advise us.
09:18And they willingly go through all the rules and regulations on the national planning policy,
09:26that you can't do this because, you can't do that because, we need to do this because.
09:32And some of us sit there thinking, why are we looking at this?
09:37We're not given the option to actually do anything or to make a decision.
09:41It's being made for us by the government.
09:44And that's as simple as that. It's just a free-for-all at the moment
09:47until we've got a local plan in place.
09:49Once we've got that, we may well then have some comeback to say,
09:54we don't want those, we can't support them, the infrastructure's not good.
09:59There's a draft local plan, and that draft at the moment identifies
10:03something like 8,000 homes being built in what people would describe as the green belt.
10:08Yeah.
10:09So, I mean, even if that local plan goes through,
10:11there is going to be a lot of local objections to some of those sites.
10:14There will be indeed. I mean, there is anyway.
10:16We've just had one for 65 houses actually in the village that I come from that went to appeal.
10:23And the inspector agreed it. It was something.
10:26And there was just acres and acres of paperwork that our local representatives
10:33and residents came up with extremely good arguments.
10:37But the inspector said, sorry, it's got to go through.
10:41Ollie, you're covering this stuff.
10:44Helen Whateley, the MP for Feversham and Mid Kent,
10:46says she wants government targets to be rethought.
10:49She's launched a petition. But what chance is there,
10:52given that Labour is committed to that 1.5 million figure,
10:54what chance is there of any movement? And would it make any difference anyway?
10:58Well, I think on a fundamental level, housing is popular as a concept,
11:02but not necessarily popular at a local level.
11:05Everyone wants housing, but not potentially in their village or town.
11:10And the truth is the government have basically set out their entire stall around delivery.
11:16And as one shrewd political commentator once said, delivery is death for many governments.
11:20So they want to see those numbers.
11:23But there is perhaps a reality gap between what a government can do and what a government wants.
11:29I know we've seen it with the local elections being cancelled.
11:32They did it to make LGR speed up faster,
11:35but they've had to turn that around pretty quickly when they saw legal challenges.
11:40That's all we've got time for in this half.
11:42It's time for a short break, but we'll have more on housing when we come back.
11:45We'll find out which council is being told there isn't enough water for houses.
11:50See you soon.
15:05Welcome back to the Kent Politics Show on KMTV.
15:08Next tonight, Southeast Water says it can't cope with the number of planned new houses in
15:13one Kent district.
15:14Tunbridge and Moorling is expected to grow by almost 20,000 homes by 2042 under its local plan.
15:21But Southeast Water has told councillors it can only supply fresh water to 6,318 new homes over the same
15:28period.
15:29Here's the reaction from council leader Matthew Boughton and the planning committee chair, Mark Hood.
15:35We're sleepwalking into a water crisis where we're simply going to have hundreds of houses and schools
15:42which are without water.
15:44In places like Tunbridge and Moorling we've had a massive hike.
15:47We're expected to deliver almost 20,000 new homes and across Kent it's 13,000 additional homes in every single
15:58year going forward.
15:59So we need to make the infrastructure that we've got more resilient because at the moment it seems that as
16:06soon as the water
16:07as well as treatment works like the one in Penbury breakdown, then the whole thing comes tumbling down because the
16:13system is so fragile, it comes tumbling down like a house of cards.
16:17What's really critical now is that a reassessment of our housing target takes place by the government because ultimately Southeast
16:25Water have got to provide water, that's their job.
16:28It's really, really important that we're able to take very seriously the warning that they've issued.
16:35This is a warning to government.
16:36It might have Tunbridge and Moorling council at the top but it's a warning to government because they're the ones
16:40that set the housing target.
16:41I'm very much on the side of residents who say this level of development isn't deliverable.
16:46We've been very clear about that from when this was first proposed.
16:49This goes back to the grey belt policy that Labour and Green MPs have supported in Parliament and has resulted
16:56in a housing target far beyond anything that has been delivered in Tunbridge and Moorling before.
17:02And still with me is Liberal Democrat Roger Roud from Tunbridge and Moorling and local democracy reporter Olly Leder.
17:09This is a really rather striking thing that happened this week in a discussion about Tunbridge and Moorling's local plan.
17:15You were there, Roger.
17:17Southeast Water's response was we could only deliver water to a third of the homes.
17:21Now doing crude mathematics, Tunbridge and Moorling is targeted to build 1,000 homes a year, give or take, over
17:28the next 16 or so years.
17:30It's actually 1,300.
17:311,300.
17:32Yeah.
17:32Which means, are we seriously saying that Southeast Water is saying once we've reached 6,000 homes, about six years
17:38time, that's it.
17:39Every home built after that we can't guarantee we'll supply fresh water to them.
17:42That's right, yeah.
17:42Yeah, it's a crazy situation.
17:44I mean, I saw something the other day, they said well you know it's going to make me more hosepipe
17:48bans.
17:49That's not going to solve anything.
17:51It just means people aren't going to water their gardens in the houses that they've got no water.
17:56So, you know, it's a bit of a catch-22, can't do this because we've got no water.
18:00You can't do it because we're going to stop the water.
18:03It's just a situation that's beyond belief I think.
18:06A lot of it I believe is a lack of investment in the past probably.
18:12We are short of a reservoir.
18:15They're telling us there's one plan for broad oak but won't be ready for ten years.
18:21Where do we go between now and then?
18:23You know, are we all going to be driving around looking for bottles of water?
18:27It's just a crazy situation.
18:29Well, certainly that has been the reality for some residents of Kent in the very recent past.
18:33Oli, what is southeast water saying about this?
18:35Look, I mean, don't even need to take that words for it.
18:38But I mean, we know there's a water crisis in the southeast.
18:41We know there's a water crisis facing the UK.
18:43I mean, southeast waters say that in England alone,
18:46there's going to be 5 billion litres of water additional a day by 2050 to meet up with demand.
18:53That's 2.6 billion in the southeast.
18:56There's no wonder they say they can't meet demand.
19:00And that isn't all to do with increased population demand.
19:04That's to do with global warming and climate change impacting reservoirs.
19:08I mean, I know there's not a lot of sympathy for southeast water,
19:11particularly around the discussion of whether infrastructure should have been built much sooner.
19:16We've had loads of discussion about that with all the different water companies.
19:19Have they actually kept up with their obligations from government to meet demand?
19:24But at the end of the day, we know how long development takes in the UK, in England.
19:30I mean, this reservoir is taking 10 years.
19:32It's no surprise because the lower Thames crossing has taken 20 years to finally get spades in the ground.
19:38And the same sort of taking away the red tape around planning, which is speed these projects up.
19:43The same reduction in regulation, which people are saying is going to lead to more unnecessary housing.
19:50So it's a take or give situation, I suppose.
19:54I mean, one of the most striking things about what southeast water said and what was reported to the council
20:00this week,
20:00was they said that they had only been planning to deliver 6,300 homes worth of water by 2042.
20:06Now, whichever government was in power, whether it's the current Labour government,
20:10whether it's previous conservative governments, that's well short of the housing targets that everybody knew were coming.
20:16What do you make of that, Roger?
20:18It's definitely lack of forward planning, isn't it?
20:21I mean, I think the last figures I saw were from 2024, their water management plan.
20:28And they've said that they can't produce any more, produce, supply any more water than what they said in 2024.
20:36Now, that's two years ago now.
20:39What have they been doing in the meantime?
20:41I mean, all these outages we've had recently, one or two of them, they're saying that it was faulty materials
20:47that have arrived for purifying the water.
20:51Do they not have a quality control system?
20:54You know, I would have thought that any major industry would have some sort of system that says,
20:59that's not good enough, send it away and get me the right gear.
21:05I just feel personally, it's a lack of management.
21:09They need to be on top of the game.
21:12And I don't think they are.
21:13I think it's a case of, let's take the money and worry about it later.
21:18When you speak to residents, you know, and I speak to residents regularly, almost on a daily basis,
21:24and they all complain about this kind of situation and say, all we see is the bill's rising.
21:32The bill's rising, but we don't get anything for it.
21:35And I can sympathise with them on that score.
21:38One thing that might surprise people is they're very used to the idea that anyone wants to build a house
21:43has to submit plans to a local council for approval.
21:46It comes to your committee.
21:47It does indeed.
21:48But one of the questions that your committee doesn't ask and is not statutorily obliged to ask on any individual
21:54house building is,
21:55is there water supply available for this?
21:57Yes.
21:57They were consulted as part of the local plan because that's the big figure over the course of the next
22:02sort of 16 or so years.
22:04But they're not consulted when someone wants to build five houses or even wants to build 2,000 houses.
22:11You said you delayed a 1,300 home plan because you were worried about water supply.
22:17Yes, it was.
22:18Does this need to change?
22:18That came up just this week and we deferred the decision on this application to await a report from South
22:27East Water as to where they're going to go with it.
22:29Can they supply it or not?
22:30Now, if they come back and say no, whether we've got authority to reject the plan, I don't know.
22:39We've got to wait and see what happens.
22:40And our experts, which is our planning department, will tell us, yes, we can, no, we can't.
22:46And this is the basis we can do it on.
22:48And realistically, I mean, if they can't supply, guarantee a supply for those 1,300 houses,
22:56then I think we ought to be saying, sorry, we can't build them.
22:59And that's the end of the story as far as I'm concerned.
23:03Raises a rather interesting kind of situation in terms of local democracy,
23:08because we might in effect here, Ollie, be saying that the water company has a veto on new housing developments.
23:13If they say they can't supply it, they don't get built.
23:16I suppose when you look at other regulatory statutory bodies, that isn't surprising either.
23:21I mean, the Highways Authority has a lot of sway when it comes to planning.
23:26Environmental health has sway.
23:27Yeah.
23:28I mean, it wouldn't be surprising to see a water company potentially be able to say this isn't sustainable,
23:33because we do have other statutory bodies in the planning process that can also basically say in fuel, more words,
23:43no, this won't work.
23:44So it wouldn't necessarily be out there. I suppose the question is, is why have we got to a situation
23:50where there's not enough water for houses here in Kent?
23:56I think that's probably what people would be more concerned about.
23:59With the idea that a big water company might be forced to have to provide water to housing that can't
24:06actually meet its long-term planning,
24:08they want to apply to other statutory bodies.
24:11Realistically, Roger, even if Swell Water starts coming back, sorry, Southeast Water starts coming back and saying,
24:17we can't guarantee supply to these, those housing targets are there.
24:21The council's still going to be under pressure to approve new houses.
24:24We can't imagine there'll be a moratorium on house building.
24:27No.
24:27Can you perceive a time in the future where, as you said, people might be having more often to queue
24:33for bottles of water,
24:34where people in Kent might be living in water poverty?
24:37Indeed. I think that's a foregone conclusion. I don't think there's any option at all.
24:43It's either you turn the tap on and it works, or if it doesn't work, you're going to have to
24:47go and get some somewhere.
24:48I had a discussion with, not from Tunbridge and Morling, but one of my colleagues from West Kingsdown,
24:54which is just up the road, arrived home from work one evening, turned the tap on, nothing.
25:01Oh, rats, I'll go down to the supermarket, and there wasn't a bottle of water in the supermarket.
25:07It was empty. Just couldn't get anything.
25:09So he was without, totally without water until the following day,
25:12until he could get to one of the distribution points that S.E. Water had put up.
25:17Well, you reported on this when it happened in Tunbridge Wells and Maidstone and that area not that long ago.
25:23One of the concerns at the time was that Southeast Water's chief executives, their management,
25:28were not particularly visible to the public during the course of that crisis.
25:31They've obviously since appeared in Parliament.
25:33Do you think if we are in a position where this is becoming more of a reality,
25:38where they might have a bigger say over what gets built where,
25:41that accountability would have to be built in as part of that?
25:44I suppose so. I mean, we are in a strange situation in the UK,
25:47where we have councils, local authorities, police and crime commissioners,
25:52but also a range of quangos that don't have that same level of accountability.
25:58A quango is a quasi-autonomous governmental body that aren't elected.
26:02They could be your environmental health agencies and other departments.
26:08And Southeast Water is a private company at the end of the day.
26:11It has obligations. It has to perform.
26:14There's not that level of accountability.
26:15We can't have regular meetings with senior management at Southeast Water,
26:21in the same way that we can with a planning committee.
26:24I can call up Matt Borton.
26:27He'll probably agree to speak with me at some point.
26:30It's the nature of local democracy with elected officials,
26:33that they are naturally more accountable.
26:35That's all we've got time for this evening.
26:37Thank you for joining us at the Kent Politics Show.
26:39Thanks to both of my guests.
26:40Stay tuned for Kent tonight for all of the latest news from around the county
26:44and be back with us next Friday.
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