The Last of Us - Grounded, il documentario sulla realizzazione del gioco

Name: The Last of Us - Grounded, il documentario sulla realizzazione del gioco
Uploaded: 2026-03-22T08:44:00+00:00
Duration: 1 h 24 min 53 s
Channel: Multiplayer.it
Description: Vediamo questo lungo documentario dal titolo Grounded e dedicato alla creazione dell'ultimo capolavoro di Naughty Dogs per PlayStation 3: The Last of Us. Il filmato è molto lungo (dura più di ottanta minuti) e vi consigliamo di guardarlo solo se avete già finito il gioco, perché contiene delle anticipazioni.

Multiplayer.it

10 ore fa

Vediamo questo lungo documentario dal titolo Grounded e dedicato alla creazione dell'ultimo capolavoro di Naughty Dogs per PlayStation 3: The Last of Us. Il filmato è molto lungo (dura più di ottanta minuti) e vi consigliamo di guardarlo solo se avete già finito il gioco, perché contiene delle anticipazioni.

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00:00:00Il nostro corso gratuito è un'immagine di QTSS

00:00:30It's insane. It's a very difficult process.

00:00:34You have more questions than you have answers.

00:00:36Especially when you come from like, you've been making Uncharted 1 and Uncharted 2,

00:00:40just kind of like, now things are going, you just kind of like, good momentum.

00:00:46And then suddenly that momentum just drops, it stops.

00:00:53It's a very challenging process to create a new IP and you're gonna fail over and over again.

00:00:59But that's what it takes.

00:01:02New IPs are really hard. They're hard because you don't know what's fun yet.

00:01:10You're building new tech, new AI, establishing new characters, new art, all this.

00:01:14You don't get to get that controller in your hand for like, six months to a year.

00:01:19You don't know. You don't know what it is yet.

00:01:21I remember like, ages ago, coming on the project and what are the infected gonna do?

00:01:25Like, what are they gonna do? They're gonna behave like this.

00:01:27I'm like, okay. We're like, trying to imagine what's gonna happen.

00:01:30Fast forward like, four months. They don't do that at all.

00:01:33Because it didn't work, right?

00:01:34It's hard mode, right? Like, it's game development on expert.

00:01:39There's a big thing about making a game, right? Which is a game has to be fun.

00:01:42You get your first build where everything's working.

00:01:45You've got player mechanics. You can walk around the world.

00:01:47You can shoot. You can melee attack people.

00:01:50You've got the AI in there. They're very intelligent, very difficult.

00:01:53And it's totally not fun because they snuck up behind you and murdered you in a second

00:01:57and there was no way to figure out what was going on.

00:02:00We're making a game, by the way.

00:02:02Hey, James.

00:02:03We're making a game, by the way.

00:02:06We're making a game, by the way.

00:02:25We're making a game, by the way.

00:02:29Thanks, James.

00:02:32And I'll see you next time.

00:02:33I was the twelfth employee or something back when we got started.

00:02:36But we've tried to stay true to those smaller studio roots.

00:02:40I've been here for 16, going 16 years.

00:02:43There's just no reason to leave.

00:02:45I just like the environment here.

00:02:47It's very non-corporate.

00:02:48I think the way we work at NaniDog is kind of special

00:02:50because we don't really like hierarchy or bureaucracy

00:02:54and no one is really just a manager here.

00:02:59NaniDog has a very flat structure.

00:03:01We pretty much all report to the co-presidents and the game directors.

00:03:06I always tell people when we hire them,

00:03:09just like, my job is going to be able to trust you.

00:03:14And that's what I want.

00:03:15I want just to give you something and you go with it

00:03:17and I know it's going to get done.

00:03:18We believe in iteration.

00:03:20We believe in collaboration.

00:03:22And we believe in the people making the game

00:03:25working directly with each other.

00:03:26We have designers and artists, animators, all mixed up.

00:03:30Anybody that's working on the same tasks,

00:03:33the same characters, the same areas,

00:03:35put them next to each other so they can communicate a lot better.

00:03:37We don't have a lot of meetings

00:03:38because if you need something to get done,

00:03:41you just walk over and you talk

00:03:42and then you go back to your desk and you finish it up.

00:03:44And I really like that.

00:03:45I like when I just walk in the office

00:03:47and I see just a designer talking with the programmers

00:03:50or programmers over the animators and talking to them.

00:03:55I think that's when really the magic happens.

00:03:58Naughty Dog, we really try to cultivate a culture

00:04:00where anybody can criticize anybody else's work.

00:04:04And we encourage people to be blunt about it

00:04:07and not try to sugarcoat it too much.

00:04:08It takes too long to be nice sometimes.

00:04:13It's not personal.

00:04:14It's based on more like how can we make a better game.

00:04:17We want everybody to have a voice.

00:04:20We want to cut out all the bullshit if we can.

00:04:22Making sure that people are making decisions

00:04:24not based on ego but what is going to benefit the game.

00:04:27When you see that people trust your opinion

00:04:29and that they value it, it's like it's such a great feeling.

00:04:32You really feel like you're working as a team

00:04:34on a collaborative effort.

00:04:35We want to sort of remember where we came from

00:04:39and why we were successful then

00:04:42and try to continue that success now.

00:04:44We make games.

00:04:46That's what we like to do.

00:04:49Back when Uncharted 2 wrapped up

00:04:51and we decided that we were going to build this second team

00:04:55and create a new project,

00:04:57we kicked around a lot of ideas.

00:04:59One of the very earliest ideas

00:05:01was to go back to Jak and Daxter.

00:05:03It's really near and dear to us.

00:05:04We really love those characters and that universe

00:05:06and we think that, you know,

00:05:08there are some interesting stories still to be told there.

00:05:11We started to realize that it was not going to do justice

00:05:14to the franchise that the fans had fallen in love with.

00:05:19It would be shifting it so far in a new direction

00:05:21that we felt that that effort would be more justified

00:05:26in developing a new IP.

00:05:29Neil and Bruce came to Christophe and I

00:05:33and said they wanted to do a post-apocalyptic game.

00:05:36I think the core essence of what they wanted to do, though,

00:05:40was to try to tell a story about two people

00:05:43and how their relationship evolved

00:05:46over the course of the entire game.

00:05:48That potential.

00:05:49Oh, wow, there is something very special about that game.

00:05:52That this is going to be polished.

00:05:54Like, you're not sure if it's going to work or not.

00:05:56And you have doubts.

00:05:57And like, should we be doing a game like that?

00:05:59Should we be doing a first-person shooter?

00:06:01Whatever.

00:06:01Like, you ask yourself all those questions.

00:06:04And, you know, the creative director and the game director

00:06:07are the core of the team

00:06:09that have to really see eye to eye.

00:06:12That's why you have that balance between, like, Bruce and Neil.

00:06:17And Neil's going to try to push just the story and the characters.

00:06:21And Bruce is going to try to push that with just the gameplay as well.

00:06:26And so it's kind of like those guys are just trying always

00:06:28to find the right balance between the two.

00:06:31It's a very delicate process.

00:06:34We feel that the interactive medium has an untapped potential

00:06:38to touch the feelings of the player.

00:06:41You have that connectivity.

00:06:42The fact that I'm actually in the world

00:06:44and participating in what's happening on the screen in front of me

00:06:49gives us some sort of advantage to make you feel connected

00:06:52with what's actually happening.

00:06:53At Naughty Dog, that's what we're trying to do

00:06:55is pair story and gameplay together.

00:06:58If we can make you feel like you're actually

00:07:02with these characters on that journey

00:07:05and you're invested in those stories and those characters,

00:07:07then you're feeling, in theory,

00:07:09the same thing that they're feeling.

00:07:14As the story evolved and took different shapes and different forms,

00:07:17the thing that was always there was Joel and Ellie.

00:07:20And because of that, everything kind of grew out of that relationship.

00:07:31We've seen kind of that role of the antihero change,

00:07:34especially over the last three to five years,

00:07:36to where before it was like the thick-neck mercenary kind of guy.

00:07:39For this game specifically, for this story, we needed something new.

00:07:48The reason we didn't want to make Ellie Joel's daughter from the get-go

00:07:51is because it wouldn't have anywhere to go.

00:07:53Of course, at that point, he'd be willing to do anything for his daughter

00:07:55because that is what a dad would do for his daughter.

00:07:58They didn't even know each other at the beginning of the story.

00:08:00Then we start from scratch and it's almost like the player has the same relationship to Ellie as Joel does.

00:08:04And we could take our time to build that relationship between these characters.

00:08:08And if we do it right, then the player will be feeling that same growth that Joel does.

00:08:12And we're kind of mirroring that emotional relationship between the two.

00:08:21What are you doing?

00:08:23Killing time.

00:08:25Well, what am I supposed to do?

00:08:28I am sure you will figure that out.

00:08:39Your watch is broken.

00:08:42It's exciting that Neil wrote something like this where he's like,

00:08:47I don't want to make the stereotypical characters.

00:08:49I want to make real people in this crazy situation

00:08:52and these forced to make decisions that are really tough.

00:08:58Like, what would we be like in love situations?

00:09:00I mean, we weren't consciously trying to pick male or female for characters.

00:09:05You just try to pick characters and just be honest with who they are.

00:09:08It almost doesn't matter, right?

00:09:09Joel's daughter could have been Joel's son.

00:09:11Ellie could have been a boy and Joel might have been Tess.

00:09:15You could have swapped those roles and I think the story would have still worked.

00:09:17The focus on female strength, it's so unique.

00:09:21You get to see what's so powerful about a woman through all of these female characters,

00:09:26which makes this game wonderful and unique.

00:09:29There's a crew of fireflies that'll meet you at the Capitol building.

00:09:32That's not exactly close.

00:09:35You're capable.

00:09:37You hand her off, come back, the weapons are yours.

00:09:40Double what Robert sold me.

00:09:42Speaking of which, where are they?

00:09:44Back in our camp.

00:09:48We're not smuggling shit until I see them.

00:09:51I want Joel to watch over her.

00:09:53Whoa, whoa, I don't think that's the best way to...

00:09:57How do you know them?

00:09:59I do think having a strong female character, especially like Ellie, is so rare in video games.

00:10:05And as a gamer, and more specifically a female gamer, it's frustrating to me because I'll see sort of the

00:10:13stereotypical female character where she's amazingly beautiful and huge boobs and she's there to be either the love interest or

00:10:22just because they're like, well, we need to throw a chick in here.

00:10:25We've seen the strong woman or we've seen the weak woman.

00:10:28We haven't necessarily seen the empowered woman from this kind of standpoint.

00:10:34And there's that beautiful scene where Joel finds her inside the house and she's reading through this girl's journal going,

00:10:40is this really what they used to worry about?

00:10:43What shirt do I wear and what boy am I going to go out with?

00:10:46And to be met with those first world problems that we deal with every day and go, how trivial is

00:10:52all of this?

00:10:52I think it's going to resonate a lot, not just with a female audience, but with a male audience as

00:10:57well.

00:10:57The thing that was intriguing to me after the fact is knowing that we're kind of creating a female action

00:11:04hero in a way, and this is her origin story with Ellie.

00:11:06To sort of be such a strong female character that is completely normal looking, regular t-shirt and jeans, and

00:11:14she's 14 and she is still a total badass, is really exciting to be a part of that.

00:11:21There's so few non-sexualized women in video games, especially in the main role, that we were kind of proud

00:11:30that we were creating one.

00:11:31It's very complex and without the players knowing it, she becomes the protagonist by the end of the story and

00:11:38that's why she's in the front of the box and that's why we've been promoting the two of them together

00:11:41so much.

00:11:42Who's there?

00:11:42It is a dual protagonist game and yeah, I guess I get nervous to think about it in that way.

00:11:57We couldn't talk about it, in fact in interviews we've been lying about saying you never play as Ellie because

00:12:01it was so important for that to be a surprise.

00:12:04Sorry journalists.

00:12:06Here we go.

00:12:12Sorry.

00:12:14Hold on.

00:12:16That's it.

00:12:18The tone of the game was set pretty early on that we knew that we wanted to make a really

00:12:23grounded story.

00:12:23We knew that we wanted to make the player feel the sense of tension and dread and go through the

00:12:30same emotional rollercoaster that Joel and Ellie were going through.

00:12:34One of the things we kind of struggled with is to say, well if we want to really ground this

00:12:38world and make it so like realistic, maybe we shouldn't have anything that could be perceived as a monster.

00:12:43Maybe like by just having an infection that just killed people and it's all about humans and how they deal

00:12:49with this post-apocalyptic society and how different people decide to survive.

00:12:54Maybe that would be enough.

00:12:55And what we realized is because we're making an action game, a lot of the storytelling happens on the joystick.

00:13:02And once we remove the infected, it's like all of a sudden now we can't tell the story through gameplay

00:13:06of what happened to the world.

00:13:08And that's where we kind of went back and kind of brought the infected back in because it lets you

00:13:13see, once you're fighting them, the threat that people had to deal with.

00:13:16That otherwise would just be very cerebral and people could talk about it, but you couldn't necessarily experience it yourself.

00:13:21In a novel that might work, in a game for us, in specifically an action game, it didn't work.

00:13:26And from there when we start kicking around those ideas and we're just like, what would be cool just to

00:13:30play?

00:13:30The early inception for it really came from a BBC video we saw called Planet Earth where they were talking

00:13:36about a cordyceps fungus.

00:13:38This cordyceps fungus gets inside of the brain and controls these ants and mandibles start chomping.

00:13:44They grow up to higher areas, cordyceps fungus sprouts out and then it germinates.

00:13:48It essentially uses them to spread its infection, take over whole colonies, sometimes wiping them out.

00:13:55As soon as we saw it, we were intrigued by the idea of, what if it jumped to humans?

00:14:04So what would happen? How would people react? What would happen to society?

00:14:10As we're trying to develop the look of the infected, we went through so many different iterations.

00:14:17Some that looked really alien and subhuman. Some that looked just essentially like zombies.

00:14:24And we couldn't find an original place for them.

00:14:27But one of our artists just did this kind of photo mashup where he took a bunch of images of

00:14:33diseases or images of fungal overgrowth

00:14:35and he kind of mashed it all together and he threw it on this person.

00:14:39It was a very iterative process, making sure that the fungus felt properly integrated, like it was part of the

00:14:44body, growing out of the body.

00:14:46And not just fungus growing on the head, but it's tearing the face apart, cleft down the middle, this gaping

00:14:52maw of a mouth with the crooked teeth.

00:14:55And it's in great agony as its humanity and its brain is still somewhat functioning.

00:14:59Maybe you still have some human cognitive abilities or thought process back here.

00:15:04This isn't some decaying corpse on the ground, this is a living thing that's going to be coming after you

00:15:08in the world.

00:15:09The fungus is always the focal point. So you can see from a distance, oh this guy's infected, I can

00:15:13tell straight away.

00:15:14And fungus have these beautiful saturated colors and we really like that conscious of this something so horrific

00:15:21that it's going to like stop at nothing, its relentless force of death and yet elements of it are beautiful.

00:15:27It's not just about gore. It's not just about everything about it being scary because to us it's actually scarier

00:15:34when things on it are somewhat benign or somewhat beautiful.

00:15:37It was evident that we were onto something that was quite a bit different and something that we hadn't really

00:15:43seen before which was eerily human but very disturbing.

00:15:47And it seemed so creepy and so unique that right away we gravitated towards it and it's like this is

00:15:54our base infected, everything should kind of come out of this look.

00:16:02So once we had this idea of the face splitting kind of look that eventually became what we called the

00:16:08clicker stage.

00:16:09We went to great lengths to create a full biological cycle for these things.

00:16:13So in the early stages you don't actually see too many signs of fungus surfacing out of the skin.

00:16:19It's kind of underneath it like people have lumps starting to show.

00:16:22The eyes will be kind of cloudy or lopsided because the fungus kind of originates inside the head.

00:16:30That moves into the next phase which is the clicking phase.

00:16:34And if they mess with the eyes we end up saying well how do they get around? Oh echolocation.

00:16:38And they use a form of echolocation to track down their enemies.

00:16:42Just like bats or even some blind people can see by making a clicking sound.

00:16:47A sound that on its own wouldn't be very scary.

00:16:50And then to associate it with something that people in this world are very fearful of.

00:16:56So that as you're exploring an environment all of a sudden you hear this click.

00:16:59And you're seeing everybody just get frightened. Just everybody duck. Everybody hushes.

00:17:07Ah great.

00:17:16The bloater is the most severe of the stages.

00:17:20So large pieces of the body has been replaced by these kind of fungal plates.

00:17:24The fungus completely takes over the body and blooms.

00:17:28They're kind of covered in things that have been growing on them.

00:17:31Things like moss and like little life on life kind of.

00:17:38What the fuck is that?

00:17:40God damn bloater!

00:17:41When infected feels like it's going to die it finds like a dark corner.

00:17:45And it becomes part of the environment.

00:17:46The human elements aren't there anymore.

00:17:48And then the body is gone.

00:17:50They lay down and sprout and then spew spores.

00:17:54And if people can breathe those spores they become infected as well.

00:17:57It all had to kind of make sense of how each stage flowed from one to the other.

00:18:01And that's hopefully how we've created a world that you can kind of look through it

00:18:05and understand the science behind it and say,

00:18:07I could buy this.

00:18:09I could get into this.

00:18:20Mandatory evacuation.

00:18:23Evacuate to where?

00:18:25What do you think?

00:18:26Quarantine zone.

00:18:27See, some places got a heads up before the infection showed up.

00:18:33Most didn't.

00:18:36Over the course of Joel and Ellie's journey through this game across America.

00:18:40You find all these different societies, all these different enclaves,

00:18:44and you get to see how do they deal with the infected.

00:18:47Without the manifestation of this infection,

00:18:49you can't have these people making those interesting choices.

00:19:02The world we decided was actually its own character,

00:19:05really grounded with a lot of texture.

00:19:07What happens, you know, after 20 years of the fall of man,

00:19:11when no one's taking care of anything?

00:19:13This book called The World Without Us describes in detail

00:19:17how much fighting on a day-to-day basis we have to do to keep nature back.

00:19:20And once you stop doing that, how quickly nature can reclaim that.

00:19:25They talk about New York,

00:19:26and how every day they pump water out of the subway system.

00:19:29That system breaks down within two days, a whole city is flooded.

00:19:32And once water gets introduced, then structures collapse pretty quickly.

00:19:36Trees will sprout, and wind will carry those seeds over,

00:19:39and gutters get clogged, and then when it rains, water fills up,

00:19:42and then pretty soon you have vegetation going over there.

00:19:43And once you have vegetation, concrete breaks pretty easily

00:19:47for when there's a tree and roots breaking through them.

00:19:49Even some of the stuff we did on Uncharted, you know, exploration of how temples were ruined,

00:19:54what if you took those ideas and put them in Pittsburgh or Boston?

00:19:58And obviously right when that happened, you can imagine that being pretty terrible to look at.

00:20:02But you think about 20 years later, and with rainwater filling up those sinkholes,

00:20:06and then those becoming like little marshes with lily pads in them.

00:20:09We had this wonderful piece of concept art we developed really early on,

00:20:13and there are all of these wild animals that have escaped from a zoo,

00:20:17and over the past 20 years have bred, and now they have herds roaming these cities.

00:20:22And that's something that tells you that life goes on, and this world is worth saving.

00:20:32Shhh, don't scare it.

00:20:34I won't, I won't.

00:20:36What are you doing?

00:20:37There's something really pretty about nature reclaiming its domain once we are gone.

00:20:43So fucking cool.

00:20:45We have another level of OCD of the logic that goes into some of these environments.

00:20:50Water damage seeps in, and then that creates some little moss growing on the floor,

00:20:53or a tree radiates energy from its base, and that over time starts to melt the snow around,

00:20:58and that's the reason why you'd see those little rings of leaves showing through in the snow.

00:21:02That gives it that extra, you know, believability.

00:21:05This is pitch art.

00:21:06I'll try to start with an idea that conveys sort of the feel of the environment.

00:21:10Something like this, very brush-stroke-y, very painterly.

00:21:12You can see not a lot of detail, just energy and conveying a mood.

00:21:18This is sort of just a conversation starter, and then this would be more of an actual space.

00:21:23So you start talking about, is this too tight of a space right here?

00:21:27Would the player even fit through there?

00:21:28Do we even want to include water?

00:21:30Those are conversations you start having a little bit later.

00:21:33And then it usually needs several more passes back and forth in order to be tightened up

00:21:37to be the experience that you would see in the final product.

00:21:39So dude, I was actually trying to figure out right here, there should probably be some dead foliage.

00:21:45It might be cool to see some of the dead stuff around the edges of the green, or like even

00:21:48spilling out into the street.

00:21:49Maybe what we do is, in some of these areas, we use it as like a transition to form from

00:21:53the actual concrete to the side of the building.

00:21:56So like they're almost sitting on top of a bed of dead foliage.

00:21:59Like that really rich kind of like orangey-brown color.

00:22:02Yeah, sienna or something would be nice.

00:22:05Something real cheddar-y.

00:22:06That's how you know you're done.

00:22:07The end product often ends up being stronger because that bouncing back off somebody else gives you a result that

00:22:12maybe you wouldn't have even thought of in the first place.

00:22:19All right. Here's the bridge. That's our way out of here.

00:22:24As far as concept art goes, definitely the ultimate goal is just helping everybody as much as possible.

00:22:29Me and the background artist will work together. I'll often just go to them because they've got like a really,

00:22:33really good visual imagination.

00:22:35At some point, you came in almost like flat on.

00:22:40So that's kind of good because the bus station is right in your peripheral view and you're probably going to

00:22:47enter the bus station.

00:22:48You're probably not going to get lost.

00:22:49But it doesn't at all utilize this cool architecture here, like the bus station sign.

00:22:54Like that's a really distinctive silhouette and it's a really interesting sort of architectural detail.

00:23:00So we changed the entrance.

00:23:04Look at that. Another city. Another abandoned quarantine.

00:23:10I think it's a better composition anyway. It's not so like symmetrical.

00:23:15And I think that was done so that this sign read better.

00:23:18If you didn't see the word bus on it, you might not know it was a bus station. I think

00:23:21it helps.

00:23:22But everything we're doing in the environments is relating back to what you should be feeling in the story or

00:23:30what's happening in these characters.

00:23:33Is that everything you hoped for?

00:23:36The jury's still out.

00:23:38But man, you can't deny that view.

00:23:43Come on, this way.

00:23:46When we first came up with Ellie and Joel, we had this idea in our heads of who they would

00:23:51be.

00:23:52But we didn't necessarily know the voice.

00:23:55It took us a while to find our Joel.

00:23:57But for Ellie, I think Ashley was the second or third candidate to walk in.

00:24:01And right away we knew.

00:24:04Why are you so scared all of a sudden?

00:24:06Because I'm a coward, okay?

00:24:08So just get your shit.

00:24:10Let's get at it.

00:24:12Dammit.

00:24:16I'm not like her, you know.

00:24:18What?

00:24:21You think I'm gonna end up like your daughter?

00:24:23The way she delivered the lines, the way she just embodied that character.

00:24:27It's like, that's Ellie.

00:24:28There's no question about it.

00:24:29I saw the character artwork and I related to her a lot.

00:24:34I mean, she's kind of a tomboy and she's kind of tough.

00:24:37And I mean, obviously I'm not 14 and I think that's the main difference between the two of us.

00:24:42I read the scenes and I was like, I need to play this part.

00:24:46You wanna be my hero?

00:24:48Forget the whole bit about saving my life.

00:24:50Buy me a stack of these bad boys instead.

00:24:53Where'd you get that?

00:24:55Back at Bill's.

00:24:57I mean, all this stuff was just lying around.

00:24:59Then once we had her, we said, okay, we're gonna do another round.

00:25:02Then we're gonna have Ashley this time in the casting sessions.

00:25:05The chemistry of these two characters was imperative to get right.

00:25:08Troy was a really interesting casting for Joel because when you see Troy, he doesn't look like Joel at all.

00:25:14You know, he's so handsome and he had like, you know, the frosty hair and totally look like Final Fantasy.

00:25:20And so...

00:25:22I'm like, no, I don't know. He's like this tall, pretty...

00:25:29It didn't seem right.

00:25:30I walked into the room fully aware that I was the youngest person that they were seeing for this role.

00:25:34There was a line that was in the audition side that says that Joel has few moral lines left to

00:25:39cross.

00:25:40And so that became the anchor point to the character.

00:25:43But then as soon as he spoke, and he had the grit in his voice...

00:25:47Warm, yet kind of dangerous.

00:25:50And his movement is just like, he bought into it.

00:25:52Why are you so scared all of a sudden?

00:25:54Because I'm a big coward, okay? Now pack up your shit and let's go!

00:25:57Goddammit!

00:26:01I'm not her, you know.

00:26:04What?

00:26:07Do you think I'm gonna end up like your daughter?

00:26:11Hey, Lily.

00:26:14You are treading on some very thin ice right now.

00:26:19It was Ellie and Joel.

00:26:20After he read, it was just like, that was it.

00:26:23I've done some video games in the past, but to be handed the mantle of a franchise like this was

00:26:27a pretty big honor.

00:26:28Is she alive?

00:26:30She's alive.

00:26:32She's David's newest pet.

00:26:36Where?

00:26:39In the town!

00:26:40In the town!

00:26:45You mark it on the map.

00:26:47It better be the same exact spot your buddy points to.

00:26:51Neil pulled me aside one day, and he said, I have some ideas.

00:26:54And as you're well aware, Neil is a little twisted.

00:26:59He came up with this character, and you know, I just jumped at it.

00:27:03It was such a departure from everything I've done here for Naughty Dog, to say the least.

00:27:10Name's David.

00:27:12This here's my friend James.

00:27:14We're from a larger group.

00:27:16Women, children.

00:27:18We're all very, very hungry.

00:27:19To be able to put on a voice that, you know, hopefully a lot of people won't know.

00:27:23won't notice that it's even me.

00:27:25Because we didn't want him to be Drake.

00:27:27Drake eating people.

00:27:29That's...

00:27:30That's a whole nother game.

00:27:33How did you put it?

00:27:37Tiny pieces.

00:27:41See you tomorrow, Ellie.

00:27:44You know, certain voices that I can do wouldn't fit the David's artwork, but he showed me the art,

00:27:49and I said, maybe it's something like this where everything's, you know, it's very quiet.

00:27:54And just, you know, he's not really sure and the voice can break a little.

00:27:58And he just looked, he goes, yeah, that's it.

00:28:00So it, I'd love to tell you, we hashed it over and we talked.

00:28:03No, it was, it just, I looked at the picture and I tried something and he said, yeah.

00:28:08A few weeks back, I sent a group of men out in a nearby town to look for food.

00:28:18Only a few came back.

00:28:22And it turns out that the others had been slaughtered by a crazy man.

00:28:29and, and get this, he, he was with a little girl.

00:28:38You see, everything happens for a reason.

00:28:44Clear.

00:28:45Ashley, she brought humor to it.

00:28:48She just has some really great comedic timing.

00:28:50The way she reacts to the things around the world with a little bit of sarcasm.

00:28:56That teen kind of like trying to get a rise out of you.

00:29:00Now watch your step as you're going out because it's going to be a little.

00:29:05It just brought a certain levity to the story that the story needed.

00:29:08You didn't even realize it needed it until she started doing some of that stuff.

00:29:13Oh, I'm sure your friend will be missing this tonight.

00:29:17Mm-hmm.

00:29:18It's light on the reading, but it's got some interesting photos.

00:29:22Now, now, Ellie, that ain't for kids.

00:29:24Whoa!

00:29:25How, how the hell would he even walk around with that thing?

00:29:29Get rid of that, just-

00:29:29Well, hold your horses. I want to see what all the fuss is about.

00:29:33Oh.

00:29:34Why are these all stuck together?

00:29:37Um...

00:29:39I'm just fucking with you.

00:29:42Bye-bye, dude!

00:29:44Throughout the course of shooting over these past couple of years, Ellie and I have kind of morphed into each

00:29:50other, which I know sounds so cheesy.

00:29:52Neil always asks, he's like, well, what would you do in this situation?

00:29:55I think the most important thing that Ashley brought is a sense of capability to Ellie's character that wasn't there

00:30:01in the beginning.

00:30:01The very first thing we shot involved her being pulled out of a car and attacked, and Joel is supposed

00:30:07to go save her.

00:30:08It was written that Ellie sort of was just kind of watching on the side, just waiting until he was

00:30:12done, and...

00:30:14I was a little frustrated, because I was like, well, I-

00:30:16If this were real life, I would do something.

00:30:19We did a couple takes, and at some point she walked up to me and she said,

00:30:22I feel like I'd hit him.

00:30:24So we added in a part, like, you know, right there off the bat, she's not just this damsel in

00:30:29distress.

00:30:29Right there she wanted to fight back from her very first day of shooting.

00:30:32We didn't have it right initially.

00:30:34She needs to be more capable than initially we thought she would be, and actually that made us go back

00:30:38and rethink combat and rethink a lot of the areas in the game.

00:30:42And now she was going to take a much more active part.

00:30:50Anything that requires, you know, a lot of body movement, we do with the actors on the mocap stage.

00:30:55And we try as much as possible to use our actual principal actors, use their body motion as well as

00:31:00their voice.

00:31:01We capture it all at once there on the stage.

00:31:03Having the actors perform as well as being recorded at the same time was imperative to get an accurate performance.

00:31:09Because every time you split up the performance in any way, you lose some of that magic where they did

00:31:14a gesture or they delivered the line a certain way.

00:31:17And those things have to be in sync.

00:31:19Or there's just something subconscious that's, like, off-putting about the performance when you don't do it that way.

00:31:24You are treading on some mighty thin eyes here.

00:31:28I'm sorry about your daughter, Joel, but I have lost people too.

00:31:32You have no idea what loss is.

00:31:37Everyone I have cared for has either died or left me.

00:31:43Everyone fucking except for you.

00:31:48So don't tell me that I would be safer with someone else because the truth is I would just be

00:31:52more scared.

00:31:54It gives you the most authentic, most realistic performance.

00:31:58Because you're actually there, not just making your own choices, but making your own choices based on the other people

00:32:05that are involved in that scene.

00:32:06So you get this truly natural approach to things and it shows up.

00:32:11It's like theater in the round.

00:32:12You can do anything from any angle and the smallest, most subtle thing will be able to pick up.

00:32:17There's no place to hide.

00:32:18So you have to be as prepared as possible.

00:32:22Because you have no idea which moments they're going to use.

00:32:24There are these little improv moments and, you know, little nuances that you get that probably isn't scripted that just

00:32:31comes out of play, you know, while they're performing.

00:32:34That mistake that just blossomed into a really good idea.

00:32:39Did we improv on The Last of Us?

00:32:44Yes.

00:32:45Yes, we did.

00:32:46Doing this was a whole lot like being five playing in the backyard with a stick, you know, and this

00:32:52is my machine gun.

00:32:53And, you know, and a pine cone is my hand grenade.

00:32:56It's all your imagination.

00:32:57I'm doing the exact same shit that I did 45 years ago.

00:33:01I just get paid for it now.

00:33:04We square.

00:33:06We're square.

00:33:08And get the fuck out of my town.

00:33:12I don't do a lot of voiceover work.

00:33:14So for me, it was nice to be able to work off of your other actors.

00:33:17I can't imagine it working any other way.

00:33:19I'd never done mocap before.

00:33:21I didn't know what to expect.

00:33:24The suits were crazy.

00:33:26Yeah, the suit gave me wedgies.

00:33:29Like deep wedgies that I had to pick out with my middle finger.

00:33:33Too much information.

00:33:35Just how damn sexy I look in a motion capture suit.

00:33:38I look like ten pound of sausage in a five pound casing in that thing, man.

00:33:43Once you get past the fact that like everybody else and you look like weird clown people with these little

00:33:49dots and stuff,

00:33:50once you like give over to that, it really was pretty easy to make it just feel like you're in

00:33:55the moment and in the scene.

00:33:56Everyone that was on this is a slam dunk.

00:33:59This isn't just another gig to them.

00:34:00And that creates a really cool energy for people to really start experimenting and playing jazz.

00:34:06Floor's yours.

00:34:09And...

00:34:09Action.

00:34:16Why?

00:34:17Oh, let her go.

00:34:19Don't worry, this is fixable.

00:34:22But I can't come with you.

00:34:26Well, then I'm staying.

00:34:27Ellie.

00:34:29I want Joel to watch over.

00:34:31Oh, no, no, no.

00:34:31Oh, shit, Ellie!

00:34:34I could just take her to the north tunnel and wait for me there.

00:34:39Jesus Christ.

00:34:40It's just cargo.

00:34:41Joel?

00:34:43How do you know them?

00:34:44You know, we craft the scene out until it has a good feel and then we pass it off to

00:34:49animation to clean it up.

00:34:50Real life motions don't necessarily always translate into gameplay.

00:34:54There's something that's usually missing so we have to, you know, maybe enhance the gesture or enhance the shoulder movements

00:35:00or a breath that you want to be able to feel but you don't really see it so you can't

00:35:05really feel it unless you see it.

00:35:10Is everything all right?

00:35:13Yeah, everything's fine.

00:35:15I could have him lean in here a little bit more like this, take his own hand down.

00:35:21When they're on stage they don't necessarily have windows, you know, so that weight of like really pushing and leaning

00:35:27in, that's something that we would have to accentuate.

00:35:29You know, give him a little bit more weight on that turn or put his head down a little bit

00:35:35more.

00:35:36There's a lot of dialogue that gets said between the two characters.

00:35:38We have to bring that alive through animation and we have what we're using as gestures.

00:35:43Why would they mow down all these people?

00:35:45Can't let everyone in.

00:35:47If you turned off the sound you'd know that they were talking to each other and that really helps accentuate

00:35:52the relationship that the two have together.

00:35:54We have certain animations that play in the beginning of the game on Ellie.

00:35:58She's traveling with Joel who she doesn't really know.

00:36:01There's a lot of gestures to make her look nervous, just her overall stance.

00:36:05Later on in the game they develop a relationship through the animation, not just the dialogue.

00:36:10You can see that she's more comfortable around him.

00:36:12If that reads well with the player then, you know, we're doing our job.

00:36:22We want her to look scared when she gets a gun. We want her to look scared of the gun.

00:36:26If she's going to aim, she wouldn't be like super trained aim. She would be more like some scared.

00:36:32But at the same time it needs to look cool and feel cool to the player that plays.

00:36:36It's really just these little tiny details that we're doing and it's coming across. It's working out well.

00:36:41We don't do facial capture. We don't track eye movements on stage. It's just the motion capture data.

00:36:48Everything that you see on the faces is hand keyed.

00:36:51You can see this is all her mocap data.

00:36:53And so when I'm doing something like this I go back and forth to the performance that she was giving.

00:36:58And I watch just this section over and over and over again.

00:37:04So this is our default face. I can make everything super extreme and make her all squinty and angry.

00:37:13Turn her frown down. I can open her mouth. Stick her tongue out.

00:37:24It's listen, watch. Okay where is her mouth at this point? Like is it open? Is she making like a

00:37:31grimace?

00:37:32About Tess. I don't even know what it is.

00:37:35Here's how this thing is going to play out. You don't bring up Tess. Ever.

00:37:42Matter of fact we just keep our histories to ourselves.

00:37:45We shoot all of it to just get the body motion and then we will do a second pass with

00:37:50the cameras.

00:37:51The scene is playing back on an overhead projector but it's also playing back on a monitor that's attached to

00:37:56my rig.

00:37:56Sean and I would go to the stage and motion capture the camera filming the scene.

00:38:02And so he would get a whole wide shot, a whole close up for the whole scene.

00:38:05You know you can change your lenses. You can use your standard 35, 85, 50s, whatever.

00:38:10All that sort of live action camera cinematography you can apply it on stage.

00:38:16We make sure to go back in and add flaws.

00:38:18We keep the confinements of the room so the camera can't go past a certain wall because then we have

00:38:23this cheated perspective.

00:38:25If the cameraman bumps into the wall we keep it. You know missing focus hits when you're pulling focus.

00:38:30Going too close to the character and reframing those little moments in there.

00:38:33It kind of keeps it very cinema verite.

00:38:35If everything was too perfect you wouldn't be able to put your finger on it but you'd be able to

00:38:39feel it. It would just feel off.

00:38:41It's very much about grounding it despite having the option to do whatever we want.

00:38:46Being able to place the cameras anywhere we want after the motion capture gives us both advantages and disadvantages.

00:38:53The biggest advantage is it means that we just have to nail the best performances we can get and the

00:38:58luxuries that we can always swap it.

00:39:00The 3D world gives you limitless opportunities with cameras and movements, exposures, all that stuff.

00:39:06Most of these cameras are sort of set up like real world cameras.

00:39:10So we have lens, we have f-stop that will create the depth of field.

00:39:15We have aperture to, you know, set out, film back and all that stuff.

00:39:19I'm a master and then I have my close-ups, my over-the-shoulders.

00:39:21Sort of just like a live-action production.

00:39:23Let's go to camera 30 at the 23.458 then I get that kind of weird, you know, bend across

00:39:31his back.

00:39:31The closer I bring the camera, the more bend I get, which is, you know, doesn't look right.

00:39:37It doesn't look as, it looks less cinematic than if I do that, which flattens the whole thing.

00:39:43And I'm trying to also catch Ellie, like if you scrub a little more, you know, catch her in the

00:39:50back here.

00:39:50So I want a longer lens in that case.

00:39:52Since I had only had experience working with live-action before I got into video games,

00:39:57it was a kind of a cool adjustment to be able to have this extra flexibility in post.

00:40:03To swap a line of dialogue for something different, even though that's not what the actors said at that time.

00:40:08And to be able to still have a close-up on them while they said it.

00:40:11You get to make it probably more perfect than you could ever make it in live-action.

00:40:16How far are we going to take this?

00:40:17As far as it needs to go!

00:40:21Where was this lab of theirs?

00:40:22Because our actors are both the voice and their body, they get to play, they get to try things,

00:40:27they get to work with our director to kind of come up with new ideas.

00:40:31Or even our director will have a new idea on the spot that wasn't there in the script,

00:40:35but realizing when he sees it, oh, well this would actually be better, this might feel better.

00:40:39And those changes all just happen organically there on the set.

00:40:43He could even lead straight into his thing.

00:40:46He was like, no shit, yep.

00:40:47Tyler wanted to do that, so we ran into our lives and drove cross-country.

00:40:50Keep it pretty succinct, like we got the bikes, rode them cross-country.

00:40:53Cool.

00:40:55It's shocking to me that this is Neil's first time directing.

00:40:58There was a specific tone and a specific approach that Neil and Bruce wanted to take with this.

00:41:03It just came down to there's nobody who knows this story better than you,

00:41:05and then there's nobody that knows these characters better than you.

00:41:08Why don't you just do this?

00:41:10He and I actually had a conversation about it.

00:41:11He says, I think I'm going to try this myself and I'm not sure.

00:41:16Neil was fantastic.

00:41:18The floor is yours.

00:41:19Okay, so remember, you've been running away from this turret-mounted truck.

00:41:23If you come to this dead end, you're going to look up and see a potential way out.

00:41:26And action.

00:41:30Let me check it out.

00:41:38I mean, his writing is honest and it's dangerous and it's natural.

00:41:43And I love his economy of words.

00:41:45He doesn't hit everything on the nose, so it leaves it open for you to interpret and bring some nuances

00:41:49and things like that.

00:41:50The entire process is collaborative, but really it's led by Neil's willingness to change.

00:41:56And flow and decide something doesn't work, you know, fix it right there in the moment.

00:42:01And it is something that's very foreign to the way that TV and film is done now.

00:42:07Where everything has been micromanaged by the time you get it to the table read.

00:42:10And no one wants you to change anything.

00:42:12And everything's very precious and has been rewritten with notes from 20 people in suits.

00:42:16And you can't do that just anywhere in entertainment these days.

00:42:21Yeah, I just want to make sure I think I swung too far over to this way.

00:42:26And now it's a little bit of making jokes about it.

00:42:29And I need to bring it back to center.

00:42:35There's one scene in the game where we see Joel not as a ruthless survivor but as a father.

00:42:41I knew from the very beginning that he was going to lose his daughter.

00:42:45And I just told Neil, I was like, when that day comes for us to shoot that, I need a

00:42:49heads up.

00:42:50About a week before, he said, it's time. We're going to do that scene.

00:42:54I was like, okay.

00:42:55Because I knew that I was going to have to go to this place that you don't really want to

00:42:59go to as an actor.

00:43:00You want to find some aspect of reality that you can empathetically draw from, you know.

00:43:06Troy and I were both kind of just like walking around for a while and just kind of getting into

00:43:09the zone.

00:43:11And he, well, my grandpa died when I was eight.

00:43:15He was like my dad.

00:43:16And so that's always what I used to get into that place.

00:43:21You know, I started recalling all those memories and starting pulling up all those feelings.

00:43:24And they're just right underneath the surface.

00:43:26And when I walked back in, everyone realized that something was different.

00:43:29They kind of like calmed down, you know.

00:43:30You could feel the energy just like drop a little bit more.

00:43:33It was brutal.

00:43:37I just, I lose my shit.

00:43:39I mean, just completely break down.

00:43:41Don't do this! Don't do this! Please! God, no!

00:43:47Oh, God, no!

00:43:55The soundstage was deathly still.

00:43:58It was the first take and I felt really good about it.

00:44:00And it was like, Neil said, okay, let's do it again.

00:44:03And so you do it again and automatically you feel like you're manufacturing

00:44:06because you're trying to go back to that place.

00:44:08And, you know, you're in that actor nightmare of, you know, trying to get back to that reality.

00:44:12And we go through it again in fifth and sixth and seventh take.

00:44:16And I'm just exhausted.

00:44:17I'm crying between takes.

00:44:19And I'm looking at Neil going, this is really, really hard.

00:44:23And finally, after like the eighth or ninth take, he said, I think we got it.

00:44:27I was like, oh, thank God.

00:44:29And I went outside and I was just jacked up for the rest of the day.

00:44:32Just, I mean, a wreck emotionally.

00:44:36But we got it.

00:44:38And then two weeks later, he calls me and he says, so we need to reshoot a scene.

00:44:44I'm like, cool.

00:44:45What scene are we doing?

00:44:46And he just looks at me.

00:44:47I said, dude, don't do this to me.

00:44:49And you can either at that moment, uh, throw your hands up in the air and say, fuck this

00:44:56and walk away.

00:44:57Or you can say, okay, this is an opportunity to get it more right.

00:45:01I'm like, okay.

00:45:02All right.

00:45:03You don't think you got it?

00:45:04I'm going to show you that you got it.

00:45:05We've got it in the can.

00:45:06And so we go through it again.

00:45:08And it just feels fake.

00:45:09It feels artificial.

00:45:11And Neil goes, go through it again.

00:45:13We start doing it again.

00:45:14And I'm getting madder and madder with each take.

00:45:16And finally, about the fourth take, Neil comes over to me.

00:45:19And I love him so much.

00:45:21He goes, so I'm picking up on some resistance.

00:45:24I was like, you're damn right you're picking up on some resistance.

00:45:26We've got this in the can already.

00:45:28And we're just wasting our time.

00:45:30And we're wasting all this effort and energy.

00:45:32And then he started talking me through the scene.

00:45:34And he was like, what I need you to do is I need you to just strip yourself of all

00:45:38these

00:45:38ideas and I need you to hit this beat and this beat and this beat and this beat,

00:45:43which just makes it sound so mechanical and it's such an emotional scene.

00:45:46So we start going through it and literally I am mindlessly doing these things at this point.

00:45:54I know it hurts, baby.

00:45:56I know.

00:45:57So I'm going to lift you up.

00:45:58I'm going to lift you up.

00:45:59I'm going to get you over here.

00:46:00Come on, baby.

00:46:00Come on.

00:46:01Work with me, please.

00:46:02God.

00:46:03Baby.

00:46:05Sarah.

00:46:09Sarah!

00:46:13Don't do this to me, baby.

00:46:14Don't do this to me, baby.

00:46:15Come on.

00:46:17Come on.

00:46:19And he stops.

00:46:20He goes, now we got it.

00:46:23And I realized that the reason why I wanted that first take to work was because I wanted

00:46:28everyone to look at me and go, wow, what an actor.

00:46:33And that's not what the scene needed.

00:46:35Those moments where you just have to sort of calm your ego down and just go back and do

00:46:40your work.

00:46:41That scene actually works, not because of me, but in spite of me.

00:46:44And that really is the marker and definition of working with a true, truly good director.

00:46:53There are many like it, but this one is yours.

00:46:58Why don't you have a seat?

00:46:59Okay.

00:47:01Yay!

00:47:03All right.

00:47:03Everybody calm down.

00:47:05Calm down.

00:47:08Thanks, guys.

00:47:12It's your director's chair.

00:47:13All right.

00:47:14Working on the project, we knew we wanted to have a pretty minimalist soundtrack.

00:47:17And we had a folder where we just throw music in there.

00:47:20We looked at the folder one day and we saw we have a lot of stuff here from Gustavo Centro,

00:47:23and we're looking for a composer.

00:47:24What if we reached out to him?

00:47:26Oh, no.

00:47:29Sarah.

00:47:32Move your hands, baby.

00:47:34I know, baby.

00:47:35I know.

00:47:39Listen, baby.

00:47:39I know this way.

00:47:40You're going to be okay, baby.

00:47:41Stay with me.

00:47:43I want to pick you up.

00:47:45I know, baby.

00:47:46I know.

00:47:48Come on, baby.

00:47:48Please.

00:47:49I know, baby.

00:47:50I know.

00:47:51I know.

00:47:52I know.

00:47:53I know.

00:47:54I know.

00:47:54Sarah.

00:47:57Baby.

00:48:21Mi vita è stato, e ancora è, come un film di road.

00:48:25I grew up in Argentina.

00:48:27I came to the United States in 1978,

00:48:30because we had a horrible political situation in Argentina.

00:48:34We had a military dictatorship where 30,000 people disappeared

00:48:39at the hands of the government,

00:48:40and many others more were tortured,

00:48:42and I was blacklisted.

00:48:44It was just impossible for me to keep on living there.

00:48:47I've been in jail many times since I was probably 15 years old,

00:48:51just because I had long hair and I play an electric guitar.

00:48:54So I had to embark on this trip.

00:48:57I can relate to that kind of need of movement

00:49:02and going to the next place and the next place and the next step.

00:49:08I'm always attracted to the possibility of getting involved

00:49:13with a project from the very beginning.

00:49:15I like to work from the script and talking to the director.

00:49:18It's never been, oh, give me a piece like this,

00:49:21or give me a music that's this.

00:49:22It's just been very high level.

00:49:24Here's what the story's about.

00:49:26Here are the themes.

00:49:28Go write some stuff.

00:49:29Since I don't know how to really read or write music,

00:49:32the way I produce music is actually recording it.

00:49:35So I like to come early in the projects,

00:49:39and I did in The Last of Us.

00:49:48One thing that was fantastic from the very, very beginning

00:49:52was the freedom that I had to try and to do whatever I felt could work.

00:49:59As the story was still being written, you could listen to this piece of music

00:50:02and just get a sense of where this needs to go tonally

00:50:05because the music was still inspiring the story.

00:50:08So that was the great thing of having the music written so far in advance.

00:50:12At the beginning, I was going really out with some things,

00:50:15and sometimes some of those things were the ones that they liked the most.

00:50:20So I really felt very motivated to work, and I enjoyed immensely working.

00:50:25It was this very organic back-and-forth experience

00:50:28where one element was inspiring the other and vice versa.

00:50:31I needed to go into some more dark places,

00:50:34more textural and not necessarily melodic.

00:50:44I'm always trying to sort of push myself into playing instruments

00:50:48that I don't know how to play.

00:50:49There's an element of danger and innocence.

00:50:52Lennon once said, you know,

00:50:54give me a tuba and I will be able to do something.

00:50:58I'm an artist. I should be able to do something.

00:51:00I like to put myself in that situation.

00:51:10So these are just PVC pipes, the ones used in constructions.

00:51:25Or instruments that I know kind of twist them.

00:51:28From the concept of the prepared piano, you know.

00:51:31I mean, I've worked with prepared guitar to stick things into the guitar

00:51:36and things like that.

00:51:37And also in The Last of Us in particular, I work with a detuned guitar.

00:51:41So I really tune the guitar extremely low.

00:51:44And the result is, you know, strings that are very loose

00:51:48and will produce not only sound but produce noise.

00:51:56Because I believe, you know, every environment has its own sound.

00:52:01We have in our, you know, small studio, we have actually the possibility

00:52:05to record almost anywhere, including the bathroom.

00:52:08And we have done some fabulous recording, especially in the kitchen.

00:52:14When you score to picture, which is something that I don't do,

00:52:17then you know what you're going to expect.

00:52:19But when you provide people with music, like I've done in all the films that I've done,

00:52:23and then you see how the director decided to use that, you know,

00:52:27in what particular way he uses or where they edit it, it's always fascinating to me.

00:52:32I watch a scene and I'm going, you know, it's fantastic how they use this piece.

00:52:36I would have never, of all the music that I've done, probably,

00:52:39I would have never used this piece there, but it works, you know, great.

00:52:43So, I like that feeling of collaboration.

00:53:20I think, you know, the guys also that work in programming and adapting that music to the game,

00:53:25they should share a lot of the credit for the end result.

00:53:30In the beginning there was silence.

00:53:32Yes.

00:53:33Then they hired sound designers.

00:53:35Then the dinosaurs came.

00:53:36They regretted that decision.

00:53:46Hold it steady.

00:53:50Ha!

00:53:51Got you.

00:53:54In a much quieter environment like that,

00:53:56we all had to fill out the soundscape with much more natural sounds,

00:54:00much more detailed, delicate sounds.

00:54:02The tension comes from the lack of sound, in a way.

00:54:07Your brain is thrown off because we're expected to hear buses and crowds.

00:54:12All of a sudden I hear wind and leaves rustling.

00:54:14Again, it's creepy and beautiful at the same time

00:54:17because it's almost like I'm going on a hike, but I'm in a downtown area.

00:54:33So, Neil, I mean, we were going through the iterations,

00:54:35so he just did not want, like, yells and screeches and what he called, like, you know,

00:54:41kind of witchy qualities.

00:54:43Right.

00:54:43The cackling witch.

00:54:44He didn't want anything like that.

00:54:45It was a little bit of a head scratch to figure out,

00:54:47like, okay, how do we make it sound human but not human?

00:54:49Yeah.

00:54:50We really did not want to use any animals.

00:54:53We wanted these all to be human.

00:54:54Derek and I basically decided to hire a couple of voice actors

00:54:58who did some interesting work vocally to see if they could come up with something.

00:55:04And we worked with this girl, Misty Lee.

00:55:06She started giving us these really great screeches.

00:55:12And that's no process.

00:55:14Yeah, that's just her voice.

00:55:18And it started going into this little click.

00:55:22We also used a little bit of Phil's voice.

00:55:30We combined that also with an occasional, um, Derek.

00:55:36That's just me, you know, moving my tongue.

00:55:39Just...

00:55:39And what that kind of did was it sort of grounded it all,

00:55:42like, maybe in the mouth area, the wetness, all that kind of stuff.

00:55:46And it adds a nice texture, actually.

00:55:47This is a composite of all the bits I just told you about.

00:55:58Sounds like a Snapple bottle.

00:56:01Oh, the lid?

00:56:01Like the lid, yeah.

00:56:02That's a good idea.

00:56:04Fuck, where were you guys, like, months ago?

00:56:06Why did we think of that?

00:56:08Why did we think of that?

00:56:10Stupid, stupid, stupid stuff.

00:56:20Viewers at home, you're probably wondering what this is.

00:56:24Let me tell you.

00:56:26About ten years ago, I saw this Cynthia suitcase synth.

00:56:32I wanted to get one.

00:56:33This finally arrived in January, just in time to start using.

00:56:37I thought, well, what can I do with this?

00:56:46In Lakeside, there's a whiteout that happens,

00:56:50and this thing has a noise generator,

00:56:52which gives really convincing wind sound.

00:57:04The military still has technology.

00:57:06There's sirens and alarms, so I wanted to try some new concepts.

00:57:27Man.

00:57:28What?

00:57:30Nothing, it's just...

00:57:32I've never seen anything like this, that's all.

00:57:35You mean the woods?

00:57:36Yeah.

00:57:37Never walked through the woods.

00:57:39It's kinda cool.

00:57:46We consciously take in consideration lighting in the beginning.

00:57:51Most of the game, we don't really have any real man-made light sources,

00:57:54so everything is naturally lit.

00:57:56In the past, you know, we could use a lot of artificial light,

00:57:59but in the world, it has no electricity.

00:58:01We have to hide most of the time,

00:58:03and that requires getting very close to certain assets.

00:58:08Just stay back.

00:58:16Otherwise, we can't.

00:58:18Detail's expensive, and if you build up too much of it,

00:58:20you end up running into technical problems, right?

00:58:22Your engine slows down.

00:58:24When the frame rate goes down, everyone can bring up the profiling tools

00:58:27and see which parts of the frame actually cause the drop of the frame rate.

00:58:31This is the profiling tool.

00:58:33These are all the SPUs.

00:58:34Here's the GPU, and then here's the PPU.

00:58:37You can see, like, here's the main process, and here's all the sub-processes,

00:58:40and you can see, tells you, like, how many milliseconds and cycles it's taking.

00:58:44The programmers are a whiz at modifying this stuff and realizing,

00:58:47oh my god, why is this thing so big?

00:58:49We're taking 10 milliseconds on this thing,

00:58:51and then that's when they come over and find somebody,

00:58:52and hit them over the head with a club, and be like, why are you doing this?

00:58:54I love, we put the 30 frames per second goal cause that's what we shoot for.

00:58:58Someone nicely put the 60 frames per second goal,

00:59:00it's like, yeah, we're not gonna hit that.

00:59:02Lighters usually can come up with different lighting setups

00:59:05that still looks great, but it's less costly in terms of performance.

00:59:09Did you talk to the character artist about her hand?

00:59:13So her face is getting a lot of speck, but then her arm is just, like, bone dry.

00:59:17You think something we can tweak in shader

00:59:19will have to send back to, uh, character team Michael to take a look.

00:59:24I can play with the lights and see if that's, creates more, like, speck.

00:59:29I've never ever focused so much on lighting

00:59:31and how much, how much sensitivity there is to that here.

00:59:33One of the first lighting scenarios I had to do was, like, 7am, like, overcast.

00:59:38And I'd, like, wake up early and, like, take photos with my phone.

00:59:40What color are the shadows? What color's the light?

00:59:43It is a master's course unto itself of how to deal with ambient lighting

00:59:47because I've never had to use it so much.

00:59:49Man, this is kind of sad.

00:59:52What is?

00:59:53All this music that's just sitting here.

00:59:56No one's around to listen to it.

00:59:59I don't know. It doesn't seem right.

01:00:01All the characters cast soft shadows onto the environment.

01:00:04Even when there is no direct sunlight or no direct light sources,

01:00:08we still have nice, fuzzy shadows.

01:00:10When you're walking down the hallway and you see your soft shadow goes along with you

01:00:16and you're projecting on the wall on the environment that make everything look real.

01:00:29Follow me. Through here.

01:00:30Okay.

01:00:33The flashlight brought a whole new spin on it.

01:00:35So, some of the environments end up being really, really dark

01:00:38and you need the flashlight to get around.

01:00:40Give me your hand.

01:00:44We want to have the environment be really dark, but also, at the same time,

01:00:47have the colorful surfaces that are sort of hidden.

01:00:49So, when a flashlight hits one of those, it bounces off onto the ceiling.

01:00:51If you shine a light on a red wall, it will bounce the red lighting on the whole environment.

01:00:58And it's very difficult to do, very expensive, but we did it.

01:01:02Everything should have a bunch of lighting.

01:01:04Otherwise, the world is going to feel dry and unrealistic.

01:01:16I guess this is where the assholes sleep.

01:01:18I mean, slept.

01:01:21This engine is really driven, in a way,

01:01:24towards a very high level of cinematic control over each frame.

01:01:28And hopefully, if we achieve our goal, you'll see it is beautiful.

01:01:31There are these truly beautiful moments amid all this chaos and destruction.

01:01:36You know, once we're done with this whole thing,

01:01:38I'm going to teach you how to play a guitar.

01:01:44What do you say, huh?

01:01:49I need some more.

01:01:55I got you.

01:01:56Damn it, Bill.

01:01:59What just happened?

01:02:02We want to build stupid traps.

01:02:09There.

01:02:09That fridge, it looks like that's a counterweight.

01:02:12Okay.

01:02:14The story really dictates sort of the arc of the overall pacing.

01:02:20Storytelling would always want to be subtle.

01:02:22They would always want to keep the world grounded in reality.

01:02:25But gameplay has requirements, where the player needs to see this thing.

01:02:29The player needs to immediately know that the enemy is attacking,

01:02:34that this room is dangerous, that this room is a puzzle that you have to solve.

01:02:38What are the things that we can do on the joystick to make you feel the same way

01:02:42that these characters are going to feel when we get to this next pinch point in the story?

01:02:46There's a turn in a scene that we need these characters to take,

01:02:49and we need you to feel it or understand that.

01:02:51And that means you have to play it.

01:02:57Sam!

01:02:58Oh, thank God.

01:03:00Keep running.

01:03:01Doorway.

01:03:02Over there.

01:03:04Run!

01:03:11We really want to make sure that there's that contrast between the negative space

01:03:15and then the high tension spikes.

01:03:26A lot of times we won't play music, or we'll play very minimal music

01:03:30just to let you know kind of the state, whether you're still in stealth or combat has broken out.

01:03:34Hearing someone's footsteps, or hearing a person breathing on the other side of the door,

01:03:38has so much tension to it.

01:03:42You hear that?

01:03:46Shh, quiet.

01:03:49You feel the tension of the world, make you question whether you want to engage with these guys

01:03:53or kind of try to stealth around them.

01:03:54That's another reason why we don't have traditional cover in the game.

01:03:58You smoothly move around everything, contextualizing with the environment,

01:04:02but you're never locked down.

01:04:03We want the player to, with that crafting system, with the scavenging system,

01:04:07with all of the abilities available to them,

01:04:10to constantly be moving around and changing as the moment arises.

01:04:15Gameplay is all about, I have a limited set of tools,

01:04:18and how am I going to use those tools and those limitations

01:04:21to overcome this obstacle in front of me.

01:04:25And that obstacle might be infected, might be another class of humans

01:04:29that wants to kill me for a bottle of alcohol in my shoes.

01:04:38It was important for us that we don't underplay the violence,

01:04:41because then the threat doesn't seem as real.

01:04:52We see video games as this incredible medium to tell stories.

01:04:58We want to treat it as equals to books or comics or TV or movies.

01:05:05This is subject matter that would not be considered out of the ordinary

01:05:09to tell in one of those other forms of entertainment.

01:05:12Fucking hunters.

01:05:14See, this could have been us.

01:05:17We wanted you to buy just the desperation of these people

01:05:20and why they're behaving this way because it's so brutal.

01:05:23and at the same time we didn't want to make it so over the top stylizing it,

01:05:28so then it doesn't become as real.

01:05:29It was important for us actually to hit that middle ground

01:05:31where it's kind of disturbing.

01:05:33That glint that's happening on that curvature,

01:05:36it'd be good if there was a way that we can guarantee

01:05:37that from this angle we're seeing it.

01:05:40But it's overall too bright and opaque.

01:05:44Yeah, it looks like paint.

01:05:45Yeah, see the blood on the ground works really well.

01:05:48It's something about the other shader is messed up in this environment.

01:05:52we've got to fix that to unify the look.

01:05:54It shouldn't make you giggle or laugh or any of that.

01:05:56You should be kind of appalled by what you have to do,

01:05:59but you understand why you're doing it.

01:06:06You want to feel each hit.

01:06:08You want to feel each impressive strike.

01:06:10Lives are at stake.

01:06:12You want a death animation to have impactful performance

01:06:14and not just have a guy keel over in a rag doll.

01:06:18In real life a guy hitting a guy takes a half a second,

01:06:21but in the game world you want that to be as instantaneous as possible.

01:06:24I live my whole life in this very ugly test level.

01:06:29I basically just fight dudes in here all the time.

01:06:32Almost every move is divided between an intro and a swing.

01:06:36One of the many things I have to end up doing

01:06:38is counting frames and being like,

01:06:41okay, on frame 18 I want you to get out of here.

01:06:43I want you to be able to start moving.

01:06:45Every hit reaction that an NPC plays,

01:06:49they are not necessarily in the correct pose.

01:06:51When you strike them the next time we just pop them

01:06:54with a zero frame animation change,

01:06:57which is usually kind of a no-no.

01:06:58You know what I mean?

01:06:58Normally you want characters to blend smoothly

01:07:01and realistically into animations.

01:07:02But what we found is that you can cover that pop up with a heavy impact.

01:07:08They can go from almost any pose into the pose that the impact starts from

01:07:13and your eye just covers up the transition for you.

01:07:16So if you throw a brick at a guy,

01:07:18it puts him in this like kind of staggering stun state.

01:07:22And that changes the moves that you do when you come up and punch him.

01:07:27So now I'm going to come up and punch him.

01:07:29And now when you're punching him, because you've hit him down,

01:07:32you get this like auto-aim moment where you get like a free head shot.

01:07:36I try to make it so that, you know,

01:07:38if you kind of know what you're doing,

01:07:39that you can set yourself up for 1 plus 2 equals 3.

01:07:47Right here!

01:07:49Memory on a console is a very precious resource.

01:07:53All of Joel's animations with every weapon,

01:07:56all the NPC animations, the stealth kills,

01:07:59you know, all that stuff happening need to fit

01:08:01within a 4-meg to 5-meg memory footprint.

01:08:04This is a list of everything that's loaded in game

01:08:06and how much memory it's taking,

01:08:08because memory is our most precious resource right now.

01:08:12So we have a level.

01:08:13We call it the Bookstore.

01:08:14It's in Hunter City.

01:08:15And this is a zone, for example.

01:08:17So when I set an AI to this zone,

01:08:18he will never leave its boundaries.

01:08:20I want guys to guard this exit where you have to go through.

01:08:22So I'll zone a couple guys around there to make sure that they,

01:08:25you know, they can fight you and use all this cover,

01:08:27but they want to stay around this door.

01:08:33This is another key component of the AI,

01:08:35is what we call the Nav Mesh.

01:08:36This defines the overall play space

01:08:38of where an AI knows he can or cannot go.

01:08:40Hey, look, that's where a cover used to be,

01:08:42and there's a hole cut out for it.

01:08:44I got to fix that.

01:08:44Here's some other wonderful things.

01:08:45See these little red polygons?

01:08:47Yeah, that means they're not linking right for some reason.

01:08:49So that means they can't really walk through here properly.

01:08:51It's a bug and I need to fix it.

01:08:53Welcome to my life.

01:09:02Hey!

01:09:08If you look at a lot of games,

01:09:10NPCs are usually only alive for, you know,

01:09:13a few seconds before the player ends up shooting them

01:09:15and then they're dead.

01:09:16We want our guys to be much more dangerous

01:09:19and much more threatening,

01:09:20which means they have to be alive for longer.

01:09:23They need to exist in the world for longer,

01:09:25which means you as the player can witness them

01:09:28acting out their behaviors for longer.

01:09:37So we've been working really hard on our AI systems.

01:09:40Back of the box, biggest bullet is going to be like AI.

01:09:47So we tried a number of different prototypes with the buddies,

01:09:50including having Ellie be super independent of you.

01:09:53She would try to flank the enemies,

01:09:54get behind them or get between you and them.

01:09:57And a lot of times those decisions should surprise you,

01:09:59just like a real person, a real character would surprise you.

01:10:01And we discovered after many different prototypes,

01:10:03the best thing for her to do generally is to stay very near you.

01:10:09You need the exploration, you need the scavenging,

01:10:12you need something to say like,

01:10:14okay, if we just crank it to 11 the whole time,

01:10:18then it's pinned up there and there's no time to breathe,

01:10:21no time to assess or analyze,

01:10:23no time to really contrast.

01:10:25There's no way of shifting the pacing.

01:10:36Puzzles are really weird, especially like Naughty Dog puzzles.

01:10:39I think they came, they're very simple and satisfying.

01:10:42Most of this puzzle is strict exploration.

01:10:45You can see the ladder here.

01:10:46You can see the pallet there.

01:10:49You can see where, you can see a clear route up to the ladder.

01:10:53So you're like, okay, maybe you have to get Ellie to the pallet,

01:10:56push the pallet over to this side

01:10:58and Ellie will climb up and lower the ladder.

01:11:00So that whole part is like, that's not a puzzle.

01:11:04That's not regarded as a puzzle.

01:11:05But when you feel like you've got to the solution

01:11:07and you're like, okay, I'm going to climb this ladder

01:11:10and you climb it and it breaks off.

01:11:13Hopefully then the player will feel a little bit stumped

01:11:15and they'll be like, I'm not really sure what I'm going to do now.

01:11:19And so this is where the puzzle starts.

01:11:20Hopefully at this point, like all of the elements

01:11:22that the player needs to solve the puzzle are very familiar to them

01:11:25because they've been through the previous exploration beats.

01:11:28They're improvising with elements that are at their disposal.

01:11:33That's a really sort of like strong theme throughout like The Last of Us.

01:11:37Like you'll survive and you'll take whatever tools you're given

01:11:39and you'll use them in creative ways to survive.

01:11:56We set out to create something kind of new to Naughty Dog, this crafting system.

01:12:01Our lead designer, Jacob Minkoff, he got this book of like the survivalist handbook

01:12:06and homemade munitions and all sorts of funny stuff.

01:12:09Just start reading about, okay, if I was just wandering around in a collapsed society,

01:12:13this world, what's stuff that seems like I could find?

01:12:16Alcohol and sugar, you know, if you want to make a smoke bomb.

01:12:19It's difficult to balance the right amount of resources against what you think the player's going to need

01:12:25and making sure that the player feels like they're getting just enough to survive

01:12:31but not too much that they feel like they're a powerhouse.

01:12:35We wanted you to be forced to make some choices in the world that showed how depleted the resources were.

01:12:42So if there's a particular point in the story where the characters are having a particularly difficult time surviving,

01:12:50then we want you as the player to be finding fewer items farther apart, harder to survive.

01:12:57We will items starve you at the same time that those characters are feeling starved and worn out.

01:13:04Then you expose something to them.

01:13:06Oh, here's a cache and if I can just get into that cache.

01:13:09Oh, look, there's a wealth of things in here.

01:13:12God, I was so worried. My health was low.

01:13:15If I had run into a combat, because it's always that thing in your head,

01:13:19it's that Hitchcockian thing about the danger that you see is less meaningful than the danger that's in your head.

01:13:34When we're designing the levels, you know, it's nice to have the stuff that we know people are going to

01:13:39encounter.

01:13:39You know, we kind of call this some of the critical path stuff.

01:13:42These are the things that nine out of ten players are going to find.

01:13:44They're right in the way. It's where you have to go.

01:13:46And then whenever designing a level, you want to have that little nook and cranny, right?

01:13:50You want to reward the player being like, oh, you went over here.

01:13:53And then you also want to have that other second nook and cranny.

01:13:59The player is supposed to go place a ladder here and climb up through the rest of the hotel.

01:14:04But what they can also do is shimmy across this area and I place a really cool, like, upgrade kind

01:14:15of off the beaten path to reward players for exploring.

01:14:18So if they come all the way over here, they're going to get this really cool training manual.

01:14:23It's a funny little bit of trivia. The actual, the HUD system, not the menus, not like when you hit

01:14:28start and stuff,

01:14:28but the actual HUD system where you see the reticles and stuff, was literally created for an E3 demo early

01:14:33in Uncharted 1.

01:14:34And that's been our HUD system, the foundation of our HUD system for the last four games.

01:14:37First time I know I know history, we hired Alex. She's awesome.

01:14:41And she's got a really good understanding of UI and how it applies to games.

01:14:46The thing that I hate about any games UI is when it pulls you out of the game for too

01:14:50long, no one wants to spend time in menus.

01:14:53Nobody loves UI, if we're being honest.

01:14:56Weapon slotting has probably gone through more iterations than any other system.

01:15:00The stuff that we finally ended up implementing, you press select, you get into this menu, then you D-pad

01:15:05left and right through the slots,

01:15:08and then D-pad up and down will change the weapon.

01:15:12And then just, you don't have to press X or anything, you just select out of it.

01:15:15When you're still, like Joel is here, that's fine.

01:15:18But then as soon as you get into an actual situation, so I'm going to go over here and cause

01:15:22some trouble.

01:15:23Okay, so there they come, oh god.

01:15:24Alright, so now I'm out of ammo, now I need to like get back in that menu.

01:15:28I have to like run away from them, get into the menu, get out of it.

01:15:31And it ends up feeling like super clunky, like again, okay, I'm out of ammo again.

01:15:35Get out of here, I need to take out one of my other long guns.

01:15:39And now Bill's in trouble, Bill's in trouble over here.

01:15:41And I've gotta like, I'm in a menu now and it's like, aw shit, whoever designed this UI is so

01:15:46bad.

01:15:47Like what were they thinking, Bill's gonna die.

01:15:50In theory, it worked.

01:15:53But then in practice, it felt a little clunky.

01:15:56We wanted it to be the absolute minimum amount of button presses.

01:16:00You don't say to yourself, oh I'm never gonna be able to do this in time, so I'm just going

01:16:04to give up.

01:16:05I'll die, I'll restart, let me try again.

01:16:08You want to always make the player feel that there is a way to survive, they can just do this

01:16:12fast enough.

01:16:13And like what's gonna go in now, if you just left right D-pad through this stuff, you swap out

01:16:19your guns.

01:16:20Like between long gun and short gun.

01:16:21If you're now on this gun and you were to hold X to pick your gun.

01:16:26So it all happens within the same system that you're using to slot the weapons.

01:16:31The first iteration that I did on that one was awful.

01:16:33It just took way too long to get in.

01:16:35Like it was just a mess.

01:16:37QA was so upset at me like all the time.

01:16:40I'm sure they hate me now because of that system.

01:17:08I think the way the industry is kind of maturing and changing in general, you're seeing a lot more focus

01:17:14and importance on refinement and polish.

01:17:17So having internal QA really helps the industry is kind of changing from QA being this like tighten up the

01:17:24graphics on level three bro kind of vibe to like really being a more technical, mental investigative job.

01:17:32On the publisher side, it's more reactive towards the code being delivered in a stable, controlled environment.

01:17:38Whereas on the developer side, especially at Naughty Dog, we are going beneath the art and the design.

01:17:45We're given enough weight where we can go up to somebody and be like, look, you have to fix this.

01:17:51Why come over? I'll show you that kind of feedback.

01:17:54I would love to be able to say like, that was us.

01:17:58But it gets so diffused throughout the iteration process that you really, you're just kind of like adding your, I

01:18:05guess like genes into the gene pool.

01:18:07And then just seeing what happens, you know what I mean?

01:18:17Everyone's working all the time now.

01:18:20But like I told people like seven weeks and then you can have tons of time off, enjoy the sun,

01:18:26you know?

01:18:26But for now it's like, this is it for everybody.

01:18:55Crunching is being a, it's part of making games.

01:18:59I feel like it's human nature, right?

01:19:01If I'm going to have a guest at home that's going to come for a couple of weeks,

01:19:03I'm probably going to clean their home just the day before they arrive, right?

01:19:06And I think it's the same thing.

01:19:08It's just like everything comes together at the end.

01:19:10I personally enjoy Crunch.

01:19:12I think you get this absolute laser focus because it has to come together.

01:19:16There's a camaraderie that also comes together.

01:19:17There's a camaraderie, totally, yeah.

01:19:19The vibe is everywhere, you know what I mean?

01:19:21Everyone's kind of like giving it 150% at this point.

01:19:24We're getting there, right?

01:19:25You start to get these glimmers.

01:19:27And I don't think anyone who doesn't make games realizes

01:19:30how late in the process you get those glimmers.

01:19:34One week before we shipped that press demo,

01:19:36we're all like, this kind of sucks.

01:19:39What's going on here?

01:19:40It's like, we need to dig down and find this.

01:19:41And in one week, like one week, the fun came together.

01:19:44Like you're shooting at a guy and then somebody flanks you

01:19:46and you hit him and you avoid the other guy who's shooting you

01:19:49and then you flank and go behind cover and you're like,

01:19:51oh, that five seconds in that 15-hour game was really, really fun.

01:19:56How do we make that five seconds happen thousands more times?

01:20:00My favorite video game is making video games.

01:20:03It is as challenging and as complex and as interesting.

01:20:07We had to like try all the things that didn't work.

01:20:09What's hard about Crunch?

01:20:11It's like marching through that swamp of it not working.

01:20:15I mean, nothing's ever really final

01:20:16because you can always make something better.

01:20:19Always.

01:20:20So we're constantly changing and constantly reiterating

01:20:24and trying to make it better and better and better

01:20:27pretty much until we ship.

01:20:28As an artist, you're never really happy with your work.

01:20:31You could be given like 100 years to work on something

01:20:34and you'll still find things to nitpick and things to fix.

01:20:37Yeah, you can work on the game for 10 years

01:20:39and you'll still be crunching at the end.

01:20:46All of a sudden, it's like getting ready one morning in the shower

01:20:48and I was just like, oh yeah, I'm about to ship another title

01:20:51and this is going to be a really good title

01:20:52and it gets you excited and you're like, all right!

01:20:54Do I think the game's going to be good?

01:20:56Yeah, it's going to be awesome.

01:20:57I think it was good a little while ago

01:20:58and now we're going to make it kind of amazing.

01:21:02What it will take to get there in these next five weeks

01:21:06is going to be a lot.

01:21:07I'm excited. I have faith.

01:21:09Every time we're shipping a game, it's terrifying.

01:21:12You just hope for the best.

01:21:14You don't know, right?

01:21:15I mean, people have different opinions.

01:21:17We have to go with our guts

01:21:18and I trust the team just to pull it out.

01:21:23This, hands down,

01:21:25is the hardest, most challenging thing I've ever done.

01:21:27We sweat a lot and we worked a lot

01:21:29and we all went home tired, you know?

01:21:32But I think that's what's...

01:21:33You're going to see that on the screen.

01:21:35I think it's going to pay off.

01:21:38Ellie?

01:21:43Ellie?

01:21:44What?

01:21:45The ladder.

01:21:47Come on.

01:21:48Right.

01:21:53After David, Ellie's visibly distant.

01:21:56You could have done a cut scene to show,

01:21:57hey, you're being very distant

01:21:59and she's not responding,

01:22:00but to also do that in gameplay to her

01:22:02is something that you've done just countless times throughout the game

01:22:05with, you know,

01:22:06let me boost you up here,

01:22:07get the ladder, bring it down

01:22:08so we can do this systemic thing

01:22:11and the character responds with that

01:22:13and you have to actually go over to her and go,

01:22:16hey, come on, the ladder.

01:22:17We've done this.

01:22:18Let's do this.

01:22:19It's a subtle choice.

01:22:20Bruce and I talked from the beginning,

01:22:22it's like, we have these mechanics,

01:22:23how can we exploit them in a narrative sense?

01:22:25And that's one of those opportunities.

01:22:28I just think it's incredible that that happens in-game.

01:22:31It's not a cinematic, you know.

01:22:33It's something that adds weight to that controller

01:22:36that they're playing.

01:22:38Wow, it's so good!

01:22:41Let's go eat.

01:22:42Let's go eat.

01:23:15Let's go eat.

01:23:47Let's go eat.

01:24:13Let's go eat.

01:24:42Let's go eat.

01:24:46Let's go eat.

01:24:50Let's go eat.

01:24:51Let's go eat.

01:24:52Let's go eat.

01:24:53Let's go eat.

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