Inside ESG: Carbon, Climate Strategy & Corporate Sustainability in the Middle East w/ Dana Darwish | S04E04 - video Dailymotion

Tangelic Life

🎙️ How do companies move from ESG promises to real climate action?  In this episode of Tangelic Talks, hosts Victoria Cornelio and Andres Tamez speak with Dana Darwish, Climate Change, Carbon & ESG Advisory Senior Consultant at WSP, about how sustainability frameworks are actually implemented inside organizations.  While ESG has become a widely used term in business and finance, many companies still struggle to translate sustainability commitments into measurable results. Dana shares practical insights from her work advising organizations across the Middle East on climate risk, carbon reporting, and ESG strategy.  Key Topics in This Episode: 📊 What ESG looks like beyond corporate reports and public commitments 🌍 Why climate risk and carbon accounting are becoming major priorities in the Middle East 📉 Understanding Scope 1, Scope 2, and Scope 3 emissions in corporate reporting ⚖️ Why the “S” in ESG — social impact and human rights — often receives less attention 🧠 The importance of strong data and measurable targets in sustainability strategies 📦 How supply chains contribute significantly to corporate carbon footprints 🚫 Identifying and avoiding greenwashing in sustainability initiatives 🏢 Why ESG needs to be integrated across departments, not isolated in one team 🤝 How ESG performance increasingly influences investment and financing decisions 👩‍💼 The role of gender inclusion and leadership diversity in sustainability sectors 💡 Skills and mindset needed to succeed in sustainability careers  👤 About the Guest: Dana Darwish is a Climate Change, Carbon & ESG Advisory Senior Consultant at WSP in the Middle East. She works with companies to develop ESG strategies, measure emissions, and integrate sustainability across operations and supply chains. She also serves as the UAE Chapter Leader for Women in Renewable Energy, helping support women’s leadership and visibility in the clean energy sector.  💬 Join the Conversation: Do you think companies focus too heavily on environmental metrics while overlooking social responsibility and governance in ESG? Share your perspective in the comments.  🌱 Support Our Mission: If you believe in the power of storytelling, clean energy access, and climate justice, support our work at:👉 TangelicLife.org  🔖 #ESG #Sustainability #ClimateAction #CorporateSustainability #CarbonAccounting #NetZero #ClimateRisk #ESGStrategy #SustainableBusiness #GreenFinance #TangelicTalks  📊 ESG Strategy, Corporate Sustainability, Carbon Accounting, Climate Risk, ESG Reporting, Sustainable Business, Net Zero Strategy, Green Finance, Energy Transition, Climate Consulting, Sustainability Careers, Women in Energy, Middle East Sustainability, Climate Leadership, Tangelic Talks

Transcript

00:00but i would say like that would be the first step is like defining what matters to you as a

00:03company

00:04and then the next step would be of course to kind of build your strategy based on the materiality so

00:10now that i've understood what matters most to me as my company i need to actually build

00:15objectives with consulting i think it's not just limited to like one discipline or one

00:20concept it's everything together so you have kind of that way of thinking is really really important

00:26let's let's let's build that platform for those men women let's kind of um raise their voices even

00:33louder than they're at at the moment you know what i mean yeah so through like podcasts we do that

00:39through different programs uh but that's mostly that's my focus i think when it comes to the uae

00:48chapter

00:59welcome to tangelic talks your go-to podcast from tangelic where we dive into the vibrant world of

01:05clean energy development sustainability and climate change in africa we bring you inspiring stories

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01:16community tune in and join the conversation toward a brighter greener future let's get started

01:26hello everyone welcome to tangelic talks a podcast at the intersection of energy equity and

01:32empowerment i am your host andres temez here with victoria cornelio and our wonderful guest dana

01:39hi everybody in today's episode we're zooming in on esg what it looks like in practice what

01:47companies still get wrong and why measurement matters more than ever and we're focusing in

01:51in the middle east with our guest dana we're joined by dana darwish a climate change carbon

01:57and esg advisory senior consultant at wsp in the middle east dana works with a wide range of

02:02organizations navigating their esg journeys not just helping them report better but pushing for

02:07more meaningful embedded change across operations governance and culture welcome and i i want to

02:14say i'm really sorry the first thing i did was was get your name wrong i i super apologize i

02:21i know it

02:22happens i mean i'm very flexible don't worry about it it's not that serious but yeah it is dana well

02:29thank you so much for having me here i'm really looking forward to this discussion and uh yeah let's get

02:36it started yeah well kick us off how did you get into this world of esg especially in the middle

02:42east is this something that is very mainstream are you kind of carving your way through it what does

02:46that look like how did you get here i feel like i was lucky to get into sustainability consulting at

02:52the right time because it was very trendy in this region um back in i feel like i started in

02:582020 so end of 2020 it was the perfect time for sustainability consulting i feel like in this region

03:04in the middle east how i got into it is um through kind of connections and network right it's really

03:10important so when i was doing my master thesis back in um germany so i did my masters in germany

03:17university of freiburg i did it in renewable energy engineering and management that i actually like

03:23my focus was um environmental management and policy and my master thesis was all about water

03:30energy food nexus um it was a comparative analysis between the uae and jordan so kind of looking into

03:37those different regions within the middle east right so we have the levant at what side and then

03:41the gulf at what side so it was quite interesting because through my master thesis work i you know i

03:47had

03:47the chance and the opportunity i was lucky actually because covet was there people were at their homes you

03:52know there was a lot of like the market was stagnant a bit so people had a lot of you

03:56know free time

03:57so whenever i used to reach out to an industry leader they would be open to you know be interviewed

04:01by us like master students so i got really lucky so um through that work i kind of got like

04:07i built a

04:08network and and i had more connections especially in this region especially in sustainability consulting

04:14because we interviewed the right sustainability um leaders and through that kind of networking and

04:20connection and kind of getting information from them interviewing them for my master thesis i kind

04:25of got the opportunity and i was lucky to actually kickstart my career at ey um so ey here in

04:32the

04:32middle east and specifically in the dubai office um and that's how it started right because i i don't know

04:39there's a little bit of a background story of how i knew i wanted to be a consultant if you

04:43want to hear

04:43that i'm happy to share but you've teased it now okay so basically i never knew what i wanted to

04:53do

04:53i only got into renewable energy engineering because i knew like it was a growing field right

04:58so i just never knew really what i wanted to do after my studies and that's why i jumped from

05:02my

05:02my bachelor's study immediately to master's because i didn't want to like think about like you know

05:07getting a job and where i go for yeah so what happened is that through my master's study i

05:13actually did an internship at the united nations environment program in the middle east uh

05:17headquarter actually it was in bahrain manama so i kind of moved to bahrain for like two months did

05:22that internship and when i was there at their offices i just saw like how many consultants were

05:27there and they just seemed like they were cool that is cool vibe around them and i was like you

05:32know

05:32what i really want to be a consultant because i want to be that person i want to be busy

05:36all the

05:36time i want to like meet a new client every day have different projects under you know that that i

05:41can manage and um you know it's all about multidisciplinary thinking and all of that i thought

05:46that fits me really well so that's how i really like that's how i i started thinking like okay

05:52i think i want to go for consulting um and and that's kind of like the story really that's so

06:00cool

06:00i mean i get that yeah they always look really cool running around going from one project to another

06:04and stuff yeah yeah it's very it's a vibe for sure and now that you've been in this area for

06:12what five six years is there how would you describe the current state of esg in the middle

06:18east right now specifically you're in the uae so to be very honest i was actually having an earlier

06:24conversation with one of my colleagues about this today so it's quite interesting that you've raised

06:28this um to be very very honest like initially of course it was a growing field and um clients used

06:34to actually chase us as consultants to work with them um they would be like you know we want to

06:39grow

06:40our sustainability department but we don't have like a capability in place um or or an in-house

06:44capacity to do that but like they would hire more consultants and they would be actually in-house

06:49consultants as well at those companies but nowadays what i've noticed there's a bit of a shift so you

06:55know it happens right there's a a new field you get consultants they help you build that capacity

07:02etc it reaches a point where you know those companies can manage them by themselves they can

07:08manage the sustainability by themselves they hire the right people it's all good you gave them you

07:13know you did the capacity building all of that you've built the structure the governance structure

07:17for them uh the strategy whatever it is and now they can actually flow themselves and it's just a

07:23natural organic you know thing and cycle and we need to just accept it so that's the case here i

07:28feel like uh with sustainability consulting i mean i'm very happy that my clients can you know they're

07:34they can they can build that on them like by themselves and i'm really happy we have at the same

07:38time

07:39you know um we need to kind of look into new services here build our capacity even further

07:44it's no longer about just governance and strategy it's more now about implementation how we can support

07:49you know the clients and actually implementing those strategies and objectives yeah it's kind of

07:55like a double-edged sword right because it's good that they have in the in-house capacity to do what

07:59you've told them but there is that other side of when you're not part of the team anymore you don't

08:04know if the things are getting implemented the way you wanted them to be right yeah so what does that

08:09look

08:09like the you said building it building a sustainability framework building the sustainability department like

08:16what does that mean what does that do so i mean there's a i feel like esg or sustainability in

08:23general

08:24it's a journey right and it's an evolving journey and it never really stops so it usually starts with

08:31building the foundation or the right foundation just like just like anything right so for sustainability that

08:38would be kind of understanding matters most for for this specific industry and and again of course

08:43for the specific company because there is no um standard definition or a unified let's say definition

08:49for sustainability or esg it differs from not just from one sector to another not just from one region

08:56to another but also from one company to another even from one department to another because you know what

09:02matters most it differs based on stakeholders based on expectations requirements and all of that so

09:08when we say building the right foundation we need to understand as a company of course what matters most

09:14to me you know is it actually is it actually you know biodiversity is it um even the social aspects

09:22like

09:23human resources etc right like human rights etc of course and when we do that's that's we do that

09:30through a process called materiality assessment so usually through materiality assessment we have a

09:36broad um or diverse set of stakeholders it needs to be interactive it needs to be like an evolving

09:42process and it needs to be an evidence-based process so um there are specific frameworks and standards for

09:49doing a materiality and there are different types of materiality assessments so financial materiality

09:55uh sorry like double materiality or a impact materiality it depends on the maturity of the

10:00company um so yeah there are different routes for that but i would say like that would be the first

10:06step it's like defining what matters to you as a company and then the next step would be of course

10:11to kind of build your strategy based on the materiality so now that i've understood what matters most

10:17to me as my company i need to actually build objectives uh for for those um you know topics slash

10:24pillars slash strategic focus areas okay so more like building the right objectives building the

10:31right kind of um purpose so what is my purpose what is my sustainability purpose as a company

10:37so those are the questions you need to kind of ask yourself and then of course um going further a

10:43step further would be of course um kind of building your governance structure based on the strategy

10:48so that would be of course your policy that would be your procedures the the right people

10:55you know setting esg focal points across the company having different departments involved

11:01into this because it's not just a sustainability department responsibility is it's

11:05like an old it's a thing yeah exactly it's a one company-wide thing right because sustainability is not just

11:12limited so that would be next and then of course comes uh then the next steps come you know that

11:20would be

11:20like the implementation programs uh roadmaps initiatives putting those in place just because

11:26you want to actually achieve your targets you can't just have targets that look nice without actually

11:30achieving it just doesn't make sense um and and right now i think there is more scrutiny

11:37with companies like public and the media and like you know and then stakeholders in general like it's

11:43no longer acceptable to have a target if it's not first of all uh measurable and if it doesn't have

11:50time like it's not time bound and then of course if you don't if you don't if for example let

11:55me i'll just

11:56disclose my disclose my target and then after a couple of years i i just kind of disregard it i'm

12:01like okay

12:01you know it's like never it never happened it doesn't work like that anymore you need to um

12:06kind of show your programs and kind of showcase the programs that you've built to

12:11reach the specific target so it's really important that it's also achievable

12:15so that would be of course next which is like implementation implementation is never ending

12:21so implementation has different programs under it of course it touches a different topic so

12:27from your supply chain to your uh own people at the company so like employment all of that

12:33and then of course it touches upon the environment so climate carbon etc so implementation is never

12:40ending and then of course um i wouldn't say this is a final step but of course you need to

12:45disclose

12:45your performance and then you need to disclose your and this needs to be done like annually or biannually

12:51but disclosure is very very important because um you know stakeholders they have the right to see how the

12:57company is first of all progressing against its targets and also they need to understand there are

13:01any positive and also of course negative impacts of of the company's operations so they do that through

13:07sustainability reporting and of course it needs to be as well following um like unified and standards

13:14and frameworks yeah definitely and i guess that's why the goals have to be measured measurable because

13:21when you get to that quote unquote last step being able to show this is what we've done and everything

13:26and i guess as you were talking i was thinking about how i call this uh like gay marketing so

13:33you know how in june

13:35every company is pride and then as soon as june is over it's like right back to business

13:39so with a lot of sustainability frameworks i see that approach a lot it's like oh here's a campaign for

13:45earth day and then we kind of forget about it

13:47how do you make sure that it's embedded in the culture because that's how implementation is going

13:52to happen isn't it yeah no 100 like i mean companies were able to do that i think years ago

14:00like they were

14:01able to get away with that like years ago but now like everybody is kind of like i was saying

14:05there's

14:05like public scrutiny so you really need to make sure that really disclose as a target that it's measurable

14:11like it's achievable to make sure that you kind of build that culture um to reach your targets

14:19i would say it's all about like i said your implementation plan and roadmap you need to first

14:24of all before you even disclose your targets it needs to come from there should be a basis for that

14:29target right it could be based on previous years performance it could be based on for example

14:35uh well usually it's based on data okay let's just keep it evidence i know yeah data and evidence and

14:42i know there's like a data quality issues and it's not just like specific to this region but it's like

14:46a global issue it's because in general like methodologies differ data the definition of data or

14:53the basis of reporting for that specific let's say data indicator or metric it differs from one person to

15:01another it differs from one department to another for example so having a unified i think especially

15:08within the same company a unified basis of reporting for metrics or and and slash targets is very very

15:15important so that you know make sure that you're measuring um their performance and in a in a more of

15:22an evidence-based way that is unified and and that makes sense so um to me is very important so

15:30i think

15:31i think in order for you to understand and define the right set of targets that are achievable

15:38it's all about first having proper data quality and then of course you need to um build the right

15:46implementation roadmap based on that and this comes from kind of uh you can um i forgot that word but

15:53it's kind of like through uh building roadmaps for for example if i do like continue my business as

15:58usual operations let's say and i don't do anything i don't introduce any initiative where am i going

16:04to be in terms of this indicator right and then of course you kind of and then you have different

16:10roadmaps for us like for example if i want to introduce this specific initiative where i'm gonna

16:14you know how am i going to actually reach my target so it's through that really yeah it sounds like

16:19a lot

16:19of project management as well is that what are the skills that are needed to sort of either be a

16:24consultant or aid in this implementation of a sustainability framework okay well it's the first

16:31like a consultant is i feel like a skills for consultant i always feel like you need to have

16:38that kind of interdisciplinary way of thinking it's really important to have that because um

16:46it's not like with consulting i think it's not just limited to like one discipline or one

16:51concept it's everything together so you have kind of that way of thinking is really really important

16:58um and then of course you need to kind of be able to manage any um new shifts let's say

17:05or new trends

17:06that come you know there are always new trends right so it's it's really important to have that kind

17:11of personality where you're able to be resilient to those ever-changing trends especially in sustainability

17:20um so that to me is really important consulting now when it comes to project management and

17:25implementing the sustainability framework i would say unfortunately i feel like this is what i've

17:35noticed is that everybody thinks like sustainability departments they're very very annoying right like

17:42every other like yeah okay companies they would be like oh my god like why are you asking me to

17:48report this data to you like it's just annoying because usually those you know i feel bad for

17:53sustainability departments because those members like the members of the you know the sustainability

17:57departments they keep chasing everyone within the company to give them the data the proper set of

18:02data etc and cementing the initiatives properly and there's always like a lot of requirements that come

18:08out of the sustainability departments so unfortunately that like um that like people think like in general

18:16like it's quite annoying it becomes really annoying and it's understandable right so as a sustainability

18:21department i would say like just work hand in hand with your you know with the different departments

18:26is really important work hand in hand with the consultants it's also very important be very transparent

18:32i think transparency is key in order to have proper implementation um and then i mean you just need to

18:40have the

18:40right background information like um there's always new standards that go out especially with reporting

18:45so you need to be on top of those things um that to me is key in order to ensure

18:51a um you know a proper

18:52implementation of a sustainability framework yeah that makes sense the reason i ask is because a lot

18:57of people who are either new to the space or looking into getting to the space have this idea that

19:02you have to be an engineer or you have to be you know someone who is in the stem fields

19:06to be you know good at this because it's

19:10a lot especially in renewable energies a lot of it is very technical and i don't know hard work i

19:16guess

19:17like i'm a comms person so to me it's like oh i know how to talk to people and i

19:21can analyze data but

19:22i can't tell you why this is this you know what i mean so those kinds of knowledges i think

19:27stop a lot

19:28of people from going into this kind of work i mean to be honest like no comes is a i

19:34was gonna say like

19:35comms is a very big factor for sustainability without comms i think a company's sustainability

19:41mission will never work because um trust me like this is the departments they need comms okay it's

19:50because through comms they kind of first of all disclose the right kind of information about their

19:56sustainable they build that you know they build that uh reputation um about their sustainable performance

20:04basically through comms you communicate your performance your internal performance to the

20:08external so yeah they need like of course comms and sustainability departments they work hand in

20:13hand so trust anyone can get into sustainability it's not about people with them or whatever i know

20:21people that are at you know really high positions in sustainability and they for example just studied like

20:27i don't know marketing okay like their their studies or like for example in politics so it works it has

20:35nothing to do with what your background is in my opinion that's just my opinion um yeah it's about

20:42kind of the mindset if you have the right mindset you will definitely succeed in sustainability fields

20:46yeah a lot of it is the transferable skills yeah yeah i like that yeah i was wondering like

20:53what what what are the what are the specific like goals because you know every country is different

21:01or every region is different right when it comes to what their esg goals might imply or where they need

21:07to improve what do you where do you say that like um in in in the companies you work with

21:14what what do they need to push forward or what do they want to push forward right now right like

21:19what's uh

21:20what's their priorities yeah good question because you know it's just quite broad right and it includes

21:26a lot of aspects within it so right now i think i feel like i just i'm just going to

21:29talk about the

21:30uae um so right now because the uae went out with or or they published their um uae climate change

21:38law um to meet their net zero target of 2050 now they have mandated that companies need to measure

21:47their scope one two and three i think it was just scope one and two emissions i can i can

21:53check but

21:54i think it's mostly scope one and two emissions all right so in general like their ghg emissions

21:59right and if they don't really measure that and report it then of course penalties uh

22:08would occur and penalties can go up to one million dirhams which is quite a lot actually for a company

22:14so um right now i think the priority in the region is is carbon as it is everywhere else in

22:20the world

22:20right it's net zero and carbon i think it's all about kind of how we're going to meet you know

22:25the

22:25country's net zero um um um targets um and having the right kind of first of all having the right

22:33set

22:34of uh initiatives in place to meet your net zero targets but also measuring on an animal basis

22:40so that is kind of i think the main pain points right now when it comes to the companies here

22:46yeah how how do the companies contribute to reaching that net zero like but what it where

22:53where is it yeah what exactly because like that because like as like as someone just like an outsider

23:01right looking in it's like okay that would be on a on one and on one ahead it's on a

23:07grid level

23:07right because of like that's how the energy is produced and then as a as a company you do a

23:12lot

23:13of things that could generate emissions but is there any main one other than energy like is is uh

23:20no i understand what you mean no i mean the whole process of like measuring your emissions first of

23:25all you need to kind of understand where are my highest kind of sources for like the highest emission

23:32emitting kind of source right or carbon emitting source so um it could be like you said from energy

23:39it could be from uh transportation it could also be from uh your purchase kind of activity so like

23:47the supply chain considering like the supply chain um emission so that's scope three emissions right so

23:52it could be direct and direct also emissions so um first of all you need to kind of understand

23:57what are what are the most carbon emitting sources it doesn't have to be only energy right because

24:05actually the most i think for all the companies in general this is just a general thing but it it

24:13could have variances but mostly i would say predominantly the most emissions come from scope three so

24:22scope three three means like my indirect emissions so that comes from your uh spent so where am i

24:29spending my money in so it considers your supply chain right so it is mostly i think the most predominant

24:36um

24:36emission source interesting okay that's that's uh okay so it's it's mostly about moving things

24:44exactly well because to my understanding shipping and supply chains are one of the

24:50industries we haven't learned how to regulate because it's just such a massive thing that moving

24:57something you know from one side of the ocean to the other are there is there a better way to

25:01do it

25:01in the fast and economic way that we do now that's what i've heard is kind of the pain point

25:06in that i

25:07don't know if you've got some something you can tell us about that no i agree because it's it's quite

25:12difficult like like you said especially if you're relying on suppliers like you said from you know like from

25:18overseas etc it's quite difficult for you to and then you don't have any kind of sources or other

25:24suppliers regionally or even locally for them so it becomes quite difficult and and the thing is i was

25:30going to add is it's quite hard in general to measure it's called three emissions as well because it

25:37requires engaging with a lot of suppliers and a lot of stakeholders and getting the right data and etc so

25:44it's quite difficult and most companies tend to estimate uh use uh you spend actually they use a

25:50specific spend based estimates initially in order for them are you know tracing scope three emissions

25:56um but it is difficult i mean i can imagine how the like the logistics department is going to be

26:03like

26:03i don't know how to measure this like i yeah what a pain yeah no 100 super difficult uh but

26:11it takes time

26:12and and the thing with data and reporting and everything is the more you do it the easier it

26:17becomes yeah do you reckon there's like a particular esg metric that is over emphasized while there are

26:26like more important ones that are overlooked are we kind of picking and choosing what we want to focus on

26:31i mean i'm good question but at the same time i don't think so because like i said it depends

26:37on the

26:37materiality of the company right so it's not like you're not really picking and choosing it's more

26:44like what is most material for me i'm gonna disclose the data on that so i wouldn't say that it's

26:50a bit

26:50subjective because it depends like from one sector to another i don't think so i think what i do believe

26:57is that companies need to disclose more social um social indicators and social related data i mean like

27:06i'm talking about diversity indicators i'm talking about human rights and i'm talking about health

27:12and well-being i think that needs to be like i believe that usually companies kind of overlooks

27:19social aspects and they focus more on the environment because they misunderstand there's

27:24understanding that when i speak about sustainability i'm talking about environmental preservation but it's

27:29not about that sustainability is not about environment actually because without human rights without

27:36social sustainability there's actually no no overall sustainability if you know what i'm trying to

27:41say so um 100 i think that is something that companies overlook and me as a senior consultant i usually

27:49tend to sit with my clients and i make them understand that actually no like social sustainability is

27:55really really important it's gonna be even it's always gonna be important um regardless of whatever era we're in

28:03um and i think it takes time for them to kind of understand that it's not just about environments

28:08of preservation yeah exactly and i think it's just one of those things where it's like if things are

28:14sustainable they feed back into the community which is also the social tracking and things like that

28:19and so it all kind of comes together so to speak i guess one of the reasons i'm so interested

28:24in

28:24esg metrics is because a lot of the reporting can also lead to access to finance or funding or you

28:32know

28:32things like that grants project grants stuff like that have you seen a link between esg performance

28:38and access to finance in the middle east are you seeing that connection strengthen or are they kind

28:43of not related no 100 yeah i mean right now and most of the especially the large companies they're

28:50large in scale of course they're building their own sustainable finance framework and that has its own

28:55like standards and etc so definitely definitely this is becoming a priority um especially with like

29:01investment companies and um um uh and etc so like for sure this is a growing field here okay okay

29:09that's really cool i guess it's i don't know a lot of companies sort of with the comms team you

29:16know

29:16want to show off like the good that they're doing but there's also the public mistrust of greenwashing

29:23and sort of you know trying to toot your own horn too much so is there a balance between we're

29:28doing great on esg and also we've got work to do yeah 100 so for me it's more like do

29:33not disclose

29:34only or focus on the positive potential impacts but it's really important that you recognize and you

29:40measure your negative potential impacts whether it's potential or slash actual impacts whether

29:45that's on the society economy and also the environment so that is something very important

29:51because companies need to equally i think look into both aspects um as well as um you know like i

29:58said

29:59initially like do not over commit do not like disclose targets that are not achievable just because you

30:04want to get like you know you just want to look clean and green i don't think that's the goal

30:09anymore

30:09it's not about looking like leaders and industry it's more about being a responsible business i think when

30:16you shift that mindset um it becomes sustainability becomes more not a question of how can we you

30:25know become better it's not like that it just becomes like a natural kind of it becomes a like part

30:32of

30:32the dna of the company you know it's not like to do it because people want me to do it

30:37or because i

30:37want to make myself look good as a company it becomes kind of part of my dna as a responsible

30:42business

30:42so that's kind of the mindset that i think um companies need to um like have a dog yeah yeah

30:51and it makes sense because you are the uae chapter leader for women and renewable energy

30:56so you're kind of doing work in this exact field not just in the environmental side but that social side

31:03so through your work with that are there any gaps that you see around gender leadership and inclusion

31:08in esg decision making even though it's meant to be very data evidence based um good question i mean

31:16to be very honest with you when it comes to the uae or in my opinion and that's just my

31:21opinion right

31:21i don't know if i'm being biased but it's like literally literally the truth there are a lot of

31:26women the patient okay it's not like okay that's that's how that's what i witnessed right so we see a

31:33lot

31:33of women um having really high positions when it comes to sustainability also clean energy um there

31:41is no longer that kind of um i feel like there's there's a societal shift especially in this region

31:48where we they're like we've overcome that societal kind of stereotypes about women and stem and

31:55sustainability and etc so to me i don't see much of a a gap okay or a yeah like a

32:03gap i see more like

32:05we need to kind of upskill maybe um women so that they even get a higher and higher positions than

32:12the

32:12way they're already at you know what i mean we want to be more at the board level now but

32:17it does it's

32:18there like i'm just gonna be yeah it's happening yeah it's it's happening so through wire i think

32:24to me like right now it's not about kind of how can we close the the gap especially that you

32:30i'm

32:30talking about uae but you know wire is a global organization but i'm just talking about my uae chapter

32:35it's not about closing the gap any longer it's more about let's let's let's build that platform for

32:41those men women let's kind of um raise their voices even louder than they're at at the moment

32:48you know what i mean yeah so through like podcasts we do that through different programs

32:53um but that's mostly that's my focus i think when it comes to the uae chapter that's really cool and

32:59please do send us those links because we're going to put them on the blog thank you so much

33:04donna for being here with us we're going to stay on a little bit longer get a bit more technical

33:08on the blog section but also any resources that you have the programs that you're um talking about

33:14if you can send us a link to the chapter that you were a part of as well that'd be

33:18really cool we're

33:19going to link it on the blog and thank you so much for being here this is really interesting i'm

33:25so i'm

33:25so happy to be part of this this was a really exciting conversation um and i don't know if you

33:31feel

33:31the same but this was really fun and it's just like a very yeah yeah and we're going to stay

33:36on a bit

33:37longer so we'll see you guys yes i have a couple questions for the blog bye

33:49let's stop power let's stop change for rural lights to brighter days equity rising voices strong we're

33:59building tomorrow where we all belong tangela talks energy equity pride empowering the world side by side

34:10a spark becomes a fire a vision that's true together we rise it starts with you

Inside ESG: Carbon, Climate Strategy & Corporate Sustainability in the Middle East w/ Dana Darwish | S04E04

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