Are our “clean” technologies really clean? 🌍 Hosts Victoria Cornelio and Andres Tamez dive into the untold story behind the world’s green transition — where AI meets climate justice and innovation collides with inequality.
From critical mineral mining to AI’s growing energy demand, this episode challenges the narrative of progress and asks: Can we build a sustainable future that’s both ethical and inclusive?
Key Takeaways:
⚡ The resource paradox of AI & renewables
🌍 Global South & digital extraction
🔋 Circular economy and ethical innovation
💬 The call for a just, fair transition
📌 Timestamps:
00:00–01:09 Getting Nerdy and Angry: Kicking Off the Deep Dive
01:10–02:32 Welcome to Tangelic Talks: The True Cost of Clean Energy and AI
02:33–05:00 The AI Boom: Energy, Resources & the Bubble Effect
05:01–07:56 Mining, Minerals & the Global South’s Hidden Cost
07:57–10:44 Efficiency vs. Consumption: The Energy Paradox of AI
10:45–14:36 Nuclear Energy, Fossil Fuels & the Myth of Clean Tech
14:37–18:43 Sacrifice Zones, Displacement & the Price of Progress
18:44–23:36 AI Colonialism: Who Benefits and Who Bears the Burden
23:37–29:47 Ethical Sourcing, Circular Economies & Transparent Supply Chains
29:48–34:55 Learning to Care: Justice, Water & Responsible Innovation
34:56–37:30 Final Reflections, Action Steps & Closing Theme
🔹 About the Episode: As AI reshapes our world, Victoria and Andres question the real cost of progress — and the path to a climate future that values people as much as technology.
💬 Join the Conversation: Do you believe the AI and clean energy revolutions can be truly sustainable and fair? Comment below 👇
✅ Like, Share & Subscribe to support conversations on energy, equity, and empowerment.
🌱 Support our mission: TangelicLife.org
🔖 #TangelicTalks #AIandClimate #CleanEnergyFuture #DigitalExtraction #AIColonialism #SustainableTechnology #EthicalInnovation #ClimateJustice #RenewableEnergy #CircularEconomy #GreenTransition #JustTransition #CriticalMinerals #HumanRightsInTech #WaterScarcity #EnergyInequality #TechForGood #ClimateEthics #ResponsibleAI #GlobalSouthVoices #SustainabilityMatters #EcoInnovation #FutureOfEnergy
From critical mineral mining to AI’s growing energy demand, this episode challenges the narrative of progress and asks: Can we build a sustainable future that’s both ethical and inclusive?
Key Takeaways:
⚡ The resource paradox of AI & renewables
🌍 Global South & digital extraction
🔋 Circular economy and ethical innovation
💬 The call for a just, fair transition
📌 Timestamps:
00:00–01:09 Getting Nerdy and Angry: Kicking Off the Deep Dive
01:10–02:32 Welcome to Tangelic Talks: The True Cost of Clean Energy and AI
02:33–05:00 The AI Boom: Energy, Resources & the Bubble Effect
05:01–07:56 Mining, Minerals & the Global South’s Hidden Cost
07:57–10:44 Efficiency vs. Consumption: The Energy Paradox of AI
10:45–14:36 Nuclear Energy, Fossil Fuels & the Myth of Clean Tech
14:37–18:43 Sacrifice Zones, Displacement & the Price of Progress
18:44–23:36 AI Colonialism: Who Benefits and Who Bears the Burden
23:37–29:47 Ethical Sourcing, Circular Economies & Transparent Supply Chains
29:48–34:55 Learning to Care: Justice, Water & Responsible Innovation
34:56–37:30 Final Reflections, Action Steps & Closing Theme
🔹 About the Episode: As AI reshapes our world, Victoria and Andres question the real cost of progress — and the path to a climate future that values people as much as technology.
💬 Join the Conversation: Do you believe the AI and clean energy revolutions can be truly sustainable and fair? Comment below 👇
✅ Like, Share & Subscribe to support conversations on energy, equity, and empowerment.
🌱 Support our mission: TangelicLife.org
🔖 #TangelicTalks #AIandClimate #CleanEnergyFuture #DigitalExtraction #AIColonialism #SustainableTechnology #EthicalInnovation #ClimateJustice #RenewableEnergy #CircularEconomy #GreenTransition #JustTransition #CriticalMinerals #HumanRightsInTech #WaterScarcity #EnergyInequality #TechForGood #ClimateEthics #ResponsibleAI #GlobalSouthVoices #SustainabilityMatters #EcoInnovation #FutureOfEnergy
Category
📚
LearningTranscript
00:00so strap in we're gonna get nerdy i'm gonna get pissed and we'll see how this goes yes the four
00:08r's if you add repair to reduce uh reuse reduce recycle repair right and how much more effective
00:16it makes the the circle the cycle yeah if if you add that to it and and with batteries let's not
00:22get let's not get this just with with lithium ion batteries it is completely possible tell us if
00:26you're an expert listening to this and you don't agree with us come on the podcast tell us what
00:31we're missing please welcome to tangelic talks your go-to podcast from tangelic where we dive into the
00:49vibrant world of clean energy development sustainability and climate change in africa
00:54we bring you inspiring stories insightful discussions and groundbreaking innovations
00:59from the continent making waves in the global community tune in and join the conversation
01:04toward a brighter greener future let's get started
01:07welcome to tangelic talks a podcast at the intersection of energy equity
01:15and empowerment with your wonderful brilliant host victoria victoria
01:21and the other incredible co-host andres tamis you didn't have to go that
01:28well today's episode is our deep dive so we're gonna get quite nerdy and we're gonna be talking
01:37about the true cost of clean energy and ai where the cloud meets the mine so we talk a lot about
01:45clean energy artificial intelligence as the keys to a better greener future however we want to say it
01:51but what if the road to progress is still paved with exploitation and extraction and that's kind of
01:57what we want to dissect today we're peeling back the layers of this new tech revolution we're gonna explore
02:03the promises and the perils of ai and renewables the hope they offer hidden costs they conceal and what it really
02:11takes to build a just sustainable transition so strap in we're gonna get nerdy i'm gonna get pissed
02:18and we'll see how this goes
02:22i might get pissed too
02:25pick us off then
02:28okay so oh gosh like we we brought this topic um because there's a it's it's the big thing right now and
02:39one of the main i've been i've been looking into this a lot
02:44and there is so much that goes into the ai revolution i think one of the big issues
02:50the biggest issue with it is the fact that it is a
02:54a bubble right like it is it is it is something that that for now everybody and their mom is trying to
03:04get into and so what does that mean well that means it's going to be extremely resource intensive
03:10at least for this period where it's being set up right and all the resources from energy to rare earth
03:19minerals to to um human uh human resources to um what would you call it water just simply water right
03:29like everything right now is is at a point of copper even like uh even even things that aren't rare
03:38but require but are really important to these industries are right now feeling the strain
03:44a hard strain because of how fast this boom is and and it is it is a it's not looking that good at the
03:52moment when it comes to it's uh to it's to its greenness its footprint especially when it comes
03:58to energy and uh especially when it comes to and then we have the we have the justice side of it where
04:06the most probable thing with as with every tech bubble right is that right now tons of people are being
04:12hired um let's say 90 of these companies are going to get crashed or bought off by the big ones
04:18um and everyone's going to get fired so so like yes they're when it comes to a bubble there that
04:26people i see a lot of discussion of like okay what are we going to lose are we going to win no no some
04:32people are going to lose and some people are going to win most people are going to lose um and the the
04:36ones that are going to lose are usually the people that are doing the frontline work um and the vps like
04:43uh like some of them are going to lose but like the big ceos probably can probably be fine they're
04:49going to be bought out they're going to be blah blah blah blah exactly uh let's start off with
04:54let's start off with how do we connect this to how do how do we view this in terms of of mineral
05:04destruction right like like we have we have a huge china and the global south right these are the two
05:11places where we're gonna we're gonna get the the supplies needed to maintain this big ones um
05:18powers this these big data centers need power and they need power redundancy so ups's uninterruptible
05:25power supplies which are batteries basically giant batteries and where do we get uh all these things
05:31we get them from usually places where um where it's resource intensive to mine them and it's usually
05:40kind of exploitative um kind of it's very nice of you to say you know like i just i don't want to
05:47make any definitive statements okay no controversy for me
05:51so we got lithium and cobalt we got like all the all the like classic rare earth minerals we have
06:00um still the silicon that is used in all of the chips like every in every single conceivable way
06:07these ai is resource intensive yeah um and so how do we how do we how do we unpack that like
06:16where what because we say because i think this is you you've mentioned this to me like one of the big
06:23things i i actually didn't know because i i always thought you know like uh it's more of a tool um but
06:29you said that um it was that it could actually be a really good tool for a greener future because of
06:34uh it's a predictiveness because you can use it to to what what what was it again yeah so the thing
06:42with ai as every tool that we've created it has its upsides and its downsides one of the things that
06:48it's going to be really useful for is predicting the energy that the grid is going to need so there are
06:53a lot of projects around the world that are using or that are engaging in grid upgrades because we need
06:59more energy right and ai can help us predict how much energy we need so then we can plan the
07:06infrastructure to um expand the grid however a lot of the new energy that we need is because of ai
07:15so we're kind of saying oh we need to expand the grid so we can provide more energy but more energy
07:22to who to the supercomputer ai that is kind of devastating the planet but it's also helping
07:28us understand how we combat climate change so it's really intricate because it's it's one of those
07:35things where we have to take the hit or we have been sold that we have to take the hit so we can do
07:42other stuff and this is what tends to happen in the green sector where something comes on and the vision
07:48of ai is that it's efficient it's intelligent you know it's going to help us with empowerment because
07:54we're going to be able to do better adaptation measures but the hit that we have to take to use
07:59it is where it gets a bit muddy i would say and now ai is being introduced in mining so you're talking
08:06about um mining for minerals and critical minerals at that to create batteries that we're going to be
08:12needing so if we put ai in mining there's a lot of examples of ai being used to improve forecasting
08:20and reduce operating costs we all can assume that mining is very dangerous so we can use ai to check
08:29the areas that are going to be mined before we send people down there and risk people's lives
08:35so that sounds really good right we're protecting people by using this tool called ai right it also
08:40promotes data-driven sustainability at least in theory because we're not just going in blind
08:46we're getting the predictiveness that ai um allows to a certain extent so we're not putting people in
08:53danger without knowing that this is actually a safe project yeah but again it's very energy intensive
08:59it's very energy intensive it's also like early deployment we're in the early deployment stages of ai
09:05so who knows how exactly effective it is on on the ground yeah um oh i had i had something very
09:12specific to say in it and it flew off it went straight through yeah it went straight through
09:20i mean this is the thing right like ai and the reason we are putting ai and clean energy in the same
09:27one is because they both promise the same thing they both have this technological optimism about them
09:33you know there are signs of innovation there's signs of progress of you know clean energy means
09:39decarbonization ai means efficiency so it means that we're going to cut down on our carbon we're
09:44going to cut down on emissions we're going to cut down on destroying the planet all these things
09:48but then the paradox is that they're both very energy hungry and very resource intensive right
09:55that's that yeah that's one of the things that i wanted to say because
09:58yes like you will hear a lot of you will hear a lot of words from from the the tech ceos right about
10:07how this it's this much more efficient it's this much more efficient it's this much further but usually
10:12that efficiency isn't going to reduce isn't it's not directed at reducing it's directed at increasing
10:20their output and so the energy consumed is still going to be really high yeah right and so and on one side
10:28they're like it's so efficient guys it's so efficient on the other side is is we actually
10:32need a grid that is enough to power a city to power our data center so yeah um so you have these both
10:39sides of both sides of the same coin and you you yes it technology is efficient it gets more efficient
10:47that isn't the case but at the scale that we're using it it's very energy into something can be
10:54efficient and use an insane amount of energy at the same exactly like those are not those that's not
11:01sometimes it sounds like they could be contradictory but no efficiency is just how much how effective it
11:08is at using well i don't want to efficiency in a more lay lay lay term is how much how much it can take
11:16an event advantage of the energy it uses and in these terms this technology is really efficient
11:22because ai chips are designed specifically to do ai tasks yeah right and to use it and to do that using
11:28as minimum energy as possible so with older gpus they they weren't designed for that they could crunch
11:35a lot of data the way these ai chips can but they were a lot less efficient these chips are very efficient
11:42but like to the we've gotten to the point where like and and this might be a good thing for people
11:47like me who are really pro-nuclear like there's been a lot of buzz about having the modular nuclear
11:54reactors set out set up just to power data centers yeah and so that that to me sounds pretty appealing
12:03because uh because it means more more of that gets people to have less of a bias against nuclear energy
12:11right um which is something that that i'm very passionate about nuclear fission um because we
12:17have like like i was like we have magic rocks that make energy and we what we do is we shun them and
12:24we're afraid of them despite the fact that almost nobody in history has been affected negatively by
12:30compared to any other form of energy creation right yeah also a lot of these data centers are still powered
12:38by fossil fuels so you know it's not the efficient thing is it no it depends on their geography right
12:47if you're close to a dam you're probably powered by them but no almost nowhere is close to a dam right
12:52like so geothermal not in the u.s uh it's not like i think that's an i like no like like like solar solar
13:05and uh solar and wind make up maximum four percent of the energy in the us i believe something around
13:11along those lines so all of this is coming from fossil fuels yeah all of this is coming from fossil
13:16fuels and there are alternatives that exist and and if this could push any of those alternatives
13:26yeah especially if you're fishing yeah in my opinion um that would be a great thing right because it
13:32it would it would make these like far off goals like project 2050 it's like how about project you
13:39know you know 20 2030 yeah exactly well it's also one of those things like the promise is that we have
13:46to take the hit now so that after 2035 we are all powered up by clean energy renewables everything has
13:56stabilized you know this happens we've seen this in history before where there is a point where we
14:01have to take a hit and then we come out the other side right yeah it's just a big hit and something
14:09i want to also remind people is that there is a promise to communities because a lot of these data
14:15centers and the mining that has to happen for ai hardware for rare and critical minerals like coal
14:22lithium nickel even copper are happening in communities that um they have a name for them they're called
14:30safety zones or something like that um also everything we're talking about there's going to be links on
14:36the blog so you can check us on our data but also just if you want to learn more and you have any
14:44questions feel free to tell us if you're an expert listening to this and you don't agree with us come on
14:50the podcast tell us what we're missing please but a lot of these zones are just thought of as safety
14:59zones um that can take the hit um it's a bit of necropolitics and i'm not trying to use jargon here
15:08necropolitics is the belief that some people have to take the hit so the greater um public can benefit from
15:17it and that isn't very just however i would be remiss to think that everything works for everybody
15:26right so i do understand that i'm not trying to be patronizing here however the promise that
15:31communities are being told is that renewables can decentralize power systems they can empower
15:37communities to be prosumers so they generate and manage their own electricity it's supposed to
15:42democratize access reduce cost enhance local energy security but also it's supposed to have
15:48supportive policy and financing as key to inclusion of these communities however you are saying that to
15:56a community that is being forcibly displaced by a big company that wants to come in and mine for
16:02critical minerals so they can create their data centers so it's incongruent because you're telling
16:07communities this is going to be really good for you also you have to leave your community so we can do
16:12this that makes no sense right and we have examples of this like um there's this big company that has been
16:22displacing romanese in serbia and some people in chile i believe um that's not great is it um a lot of
16:32these communities are in sacrifice zones so sacrifice zones are basically places that suffer injustice
16:40like in mexico chile nigeria indonesia and it's where big businesses and transnational co-operations
16:47contaminate the river air waters and soil for profit while the prize is paid by the local community
16:56suffering degradation of their health and ecologies so again you have a big company coming in and
17:02saying ai is the future is going to help us predict the extreme weather events that are going to be
17:09happening in this place however we need to build that ai center so you the people who would be the
17:16most affected are going to have to leave so we can do that yeah very incongruent in my opinion
17:24but then again how much of a hit can we take yeah well okay you also have to
17:31ask the question you know is it worth taking the hit like yeah is it is it worth taking the hit for
17:37like is ai going to be worth it pro answer probably yes right but like at the same time like what
17:48what because i was watching mark zuckerberg talk about it right and and marky mark and so like um
17:55um he was like the the accelerationism comes from who is going to be at the top right who were which
18:05one of these like they don't it's they don't they never say the quiet part out loud which is which
18:09one of these come which one of our companies are going to be the ones that stand tall and buy everyone
18:15else out and not crash like everyone else and so to do that you need to be at the very very head and so
18:22you need you need that sacrifice you need to make those sacrifices like okay but like it's like a
18:29lord the lord farquaad thing is like some of you may die but that is a risk i am willing to take it's
18:34like okay why are what how can you talk about when you are not making the sacrifice like it's somebody
18:40else's sacrifice yeah um and it's all because they need to be at the head they need to be at the at the
18:46peak because because that's the way that's the way it is like if they want to be in this industry
18:53for the long run if they want to be the dominating players they need to be the one to build up the
18:57infrastructure fastest and to build up the strongest infrastructure and i said cool but the grids can't
19:04take it no the grids aren't able to take it the the earth probably like you you could you could say
19:12you know like the necropolitics thing you could say that there are places where you know you could
19:17do this and it needs to take the hit you know what i'm almost fine with that right um as long as you
19:24are responsible which i don't know how responsible they're being seeing how much they're expediting
19:28everything yeah because everything needs to be done now everything needs to expand right now because
19:33they need those resources right now uh yet that to be at the race to be at the head of that race and so
19:38so so you it's hard to believe them it's it's hard to take their word for it that they're being
19:44responsible when at the end of the day they they're they're doing their best to be the first to rush to
19:52the end of the yeah we have the ethical aspects of like you know these companies if you violate their
20:00their like copyright if you infringe on anything about them they will come at you but they're feeding their
20:08ai with data sets of all the work everyone has done all the copyrighted work everyone has done
20:14right and when you say anything about it they're like they're like well you know this is the sacrifice
20:20you need to make you know exactly a level of hypocrisy yeah no exactly and again we are in crisis
20:29and i want to believe this is happening because we are in crisis right it is a climate crisis
20:34we've seen the world react and not the best way when we're in crisis because you got to do something
20:40you can't just sit there and hope it blows over i understand that however it feels like we've created
20:48a new problem and now we're saying here's the solution to the problem we created you know because
20:53even from a um practical standpoint the amount of millions of liters of water that are needed to cool
21:04ai data centers is massive yearly it uses millions of liters of water but then you're also building in
21:11places that are water deprived and then you're taking away the chance of for example hydroelectric power
21:19because now we got to use that water to power up and cool the ai and there's all this electronic
21:25waste from obsolete hardware that adds to environmental burdens and also the deforestation
21:30because you don't just show up somewhere and build so again or you displace farmers you could do that
21:37you know you could displace farmers and which is something that does happen that's what you do yeah
21:43and then there's also there's also the human rights abuses because there's this um amnesty
21:49report from the democratic republic of congo that cobalt and copper mining are tied to human rights
21:55abuses we know this but now it's being repackaged as innovative and it's part of the work that we're
22:05doing to expand ai and also help us with renewables it seems like a big pr campaign like it does seem
22:15all positives that like i feel like because like i've always been a techie i've been paying attention
22:20to this industry right i know for a fact that all this stuff that all this stuff that you said like
22:27you want to hope that this is one of the primaries but aspects of of ai i know for a fact they're an
22:33afterthought to companies like nvidia that provide all the ai tips like i know jensen hua was not
22:39thinking about sustainability at all when when it's like that we need to develop the the highest end
22:49and and i i think he cares about it right but jensen is also like a he he's he's the god emperor of
22:57nvidia so like he cares about nvidia more than anything else in this world and that's what he cares about
23:03that's all i i can only say that about jensen because i followed him for so long right like i
23:07don't know about the other ceos i don't like sam altman that much i don't like all the other guys but
23:12i don't know them that well other than the fact that i criticize mostly everything they say because
23:16almost everything they say is completely disconnected but but yeah that that he he believes in his
23:25product yeah that is his main motivation it is not it is not like uh any sort of need to to um and he
23:34believes what it can do for the environment but he also believes that it's going to make him and nvidia
23:40extremely successful um for the next one billion years and then again like is that so bad right if you
23:48have a product slash a tool that makes you money and also helps us advance what we're trying to do
23:55and that's not the worst thing in the world is it so it sounds like a win-win it's just never that
24:01black and white and i think that's where we get tripped up so if we connect that to renewable energy
24:07ai can help us predict how efficient a solar farm will be that's incredible because now we can start
24:14solar um energy being more mainstream and widespread in different places but the amount of water and
24:22deforestation that went for us to be able to use that predictive tool kind of defeats the point
24:29so it's really hard it's it's a hard one and i don't know it's i want to remain optimistic and just
24:37think we are in crisis and we're just scrambling but it's a hard one especially if you see ai as the new
24:43oil so who's doing the drilling and who's living with the spill right who who's taking the hits
24:52and many times um i don't know if people are familiar with ai colonialism but it's kind of a
24:58parallel to extractive colonialism so there's a digital one and the parallel one and both exploit
25:04unseen labor and ecosystems because the global south bears extraction and labor burdens while the
25:10wall centralizes in the north but also low-paid data annotators resource miners and communities
25:17that are facing health and livelihood impacts are also the people who are being displaced and
25:23exploited to mine for the minerals that we need for ai but then again ai would be really good to expand
25:31and renewable so right and the governments don't help the governments here god no they absolutely do not help
25:40i remember i remember hearing this story about here in mexico how like they tried to they there was a
25:46company trying to set up like wind wind farms right and they were trying to generate energy and they
25:52completely went broke because the government was like okay you can only sell up to this amount of energy
25:56and they were like okay what's the point of building up our infrastructure more and more
26:02you know like and so that project died and it was a good deal for like for example farmers like we're
26:08going to build this on your land but you don't have to pay for electricity ever again right there
26:12right so like it was a good deal for a lot of for for several people but the government was just like
26:18actually we sort of like monopolizing the electricity so so that's at least the case here in mexico
26:28well yeah and again i don't want it to come off as we're just sort of you know being a bit
26:34yeah exactly so if we move from extraction to regeneration there is a way for us to rethink
26:42this progress with a more just and clean vision okay so one of the first things that we should be
26:50looking at and this are emerging ideas is ethical sourcing and transparency we need stronger global
26:56supply chain loss and certifications it just has to happen because if we're going to accept that we
27:02need to continue mining for these minerals then we need the supply chains to be more transparent
27:09and to be more ethical and this has got to happen we we need to actually like if you're like this is
27:15this is just an important thing for like uh the economy and stuff like that i want you i want to see
27:21you put money in these places right because like that's the whole deal for them it's it's money like
27:27into the communities into the places not just not just like under the counter just to somebody who
27:33who granted the permit you know exactly yeah we need to be more transparent about these things
27:39we also need more circular economy models recycling batteries reusing tech redesigning systems i think
27:46you were talking about the four r's the other day yes the four r's if you add repair to reduce uh reuse
27:53reduce recycle repair right and how much more effective it makes the the circle the site yeah if if you add
28:01that to it and and with batteries let's not get let's not get this just with with lithium ion batteries
28:06it is completely possible right but anything with copper it is completely possible to recycle the materials
28:12in it uh and it it really it really is horrible because a lot of a lot of companies that that sell these batteries
28:20um require you to basically require it to basically end up in a landfill because
28:27uh you need to pay for it again right but at the end of the day like once these resources come into
28:35your country they've already been extracted you need to make sure that you use them 100 like you
28:40you need to keep on using them you keep you need to keep on recycling them like the same way we do with
28:44aluminum right we need to need to do the same thing with with lithium and a lot so much so many batteries
28:51end up in a landfill yeah so many completely usable tech well a lot of tech that is made nowadays is
28:57basically made up in a landfill but so some of which of it shouldn't it doesn't need yeah it doesn't
29:04have to be this way there's also and we always come back to this there needs to be support for
29:09developing economies to pursue equitable green transitions we have to continue because we've done
29:15it really slowly moving away from the blaming game in the sustainability space right we didn't know
29:22how damaging carbon was so there were a lot of economies that were able to grow on carbon
29:28and now that we all understand it and we're pushing for green we're blaming economies that still rely
29:34on fossil fuels it's not it's not fair that's absolutely not fair so we need better policy action
29:41support for these to pursue equitable green transitions there are a lot of examples out of
29:46africa of countries that most of their if not all of their energy is renewables it is doable but they've
29:54had policy plans that allow for that and also it's very geography dependent right kenya gets a lot of
30:03sunlight and kenya is powered mostly by solar power right our work in ghana is solar
30:11power and solar microgrids and clean cooking because the geography allows for that let's and if
30:18let's develop these solutions if you want a grid based off of solar which is why i i love solar as
30:25an independent energy independence thing but i don't like it as a it's going to be used to feed the
30:29country yeah uh you're gonna need batteries and that that a lot of them because the sun shines only a
30:36certain amount of the day um and and from my perspective you know a lot of a lot of the
30:42resources that can go that that you use to build let's say a um a windmill right yeah um something for
30:52you can you can just put that into a a nuclear nuclear reactor and it would it would the thing about it
31:00is consistency why are fossil fuels so compelling right and why are they still used and why is it it is
31:06okay for us to keep using them because because we've gotten so much better at using them and so
31:13consistent right but we need to know how to use this consistency to as a leverage to transition yeah
31:20as a jump off point and again humans are very adoptable yeah there are many countries that can
31:27benefit from um cleaner fossil fuels they're still fossil fuels but like china burns mostly coal right um
31:36if they if they did natural gas there would be better ways to to to do maintenance to to capture
31:43the the emissions um cleaner air right like we we need to understand you know the tools that are needed
31:51for the occasion now china and we're in it we're at a point where like we're so irresponsible with our
31:56energy that china might beat us to the punch they might go from being the least responsible to the most
32:02because i think they they're working on so much the gigantic dam they just powered on right they're
32:09working i'm i think on 40 over 40 nuclear reactors or they're working on getting set up um meanwhile
32:16france has one and most of their energy depends on it but like they have such a long history with it and
32:23they still succumb to the fear mongering it's like all almost all of your energy comes from it why are you so
32:28afraid of this thing that has been around like third and fourth generation nuclear reactors are
32:33extremely safe like fourth generation nuclear reactors are safe safe at the laws of physics level
32:40like it is physically impossible for them to to for something to happen like like it like in the first
32:49first second gen like the old school nuclear reactors and even then it was human error that caused
32:54most of those issues yeah yeah fair okay if you know about nuclear please come on we need to talk
33:02to you we've got questions andres is very passionate about it so we need the perspective please i think
33:10i'm loving i'm loving internally for a specific person that i really want to bring on the podcast
33:15we'll reach out but also i just want people to remember clean isn't clean if it's not also just
33:23right and a lot of the progress that we do isn't just about building but it's about who benefits and
33:29who bears the cost if we're going to accept that we have to take some hits and that there are some
33:34sacrifices to be made just like sacrifice zones in the global south then let's try to mitigate as much
33:41of the damage as possible right this is what i keep saying the climate crisis can't be stopped but we can
33:47safeguard people from its effects and if we're going to say that this has to keep happening
33:52then let's safeguard people let's not displace people or let's have relocation plans that they
33:57have to be displaced there are ways around this but i think to address this point of we're just doing
34:03things so quickly there are no safeguards there are no guard rails being put on so i want you all to
34:10think if we can teach machines to think can we also learn to care about the people places that make
34:17this intelligence possible if we're going to take the hits how can we safeguard for these hits justice
34:25like the justice aspect i think is super important for water water like you don't have to go to to the
34:32sacrifice areas of the world you can look at california you can look at the the desert states
34:39in the united states right like so much water is being siphoned into ai instead of going to farmers
34:44instead of going to here places that already struggled with water previously before ai so we
34:51just have to take these things into account there's nothing wrong with ai it's a really cool technology
34:55it's going to it's going to help us we're not used to it we're not we we still don't know what
35:02our relationship to ai is we don't have a healthy relationship with ai right because like people
35:07are uh it's a tool it's going to replace is it's this i think that i think that we're going to find
35:12a middle ground but for now um in terms of its sustainability in terms of its justice and in
35:17terms of its use it's it's it's all up in the air yeah exactly we have to be more responsible and again
35:25it could be a really cool tool to help us advance clean energy and that would be the goal we just have
35:31to see how we're going to get to that goal and that goal cannot that road cannot be marked by
35:38injustice and you know pain because then what was the point you know so we'll leave you with that
35:48again if you know about the topics that we're talking about today please reach out to us you
35:52can send us an email podcast at tangeliclife.org you can check out the blog for this episode at
35:58tangeliclife.org where we'll have the resources and some bites of what we've said so you can read
36:04more and thank you so much for listening if you disagree with us comment if you agree with us
36:10comment and if you just have questions about things that we could talk about in our next deep dive
36:16guests that you want us to have on anything like that please let us know we'll also leave some action
36:22ideas for you if you're feeling a bit doom and gloom after this episode it's okay hope isn't lost
36:28we just wanted to bring this to you because it's one of those topics that we keep going around in
36:32circles in the energy space and the sustainability sector in general and it's important that we keep
36:40in mind this technological optimism versus material reality of the things that we are pushing as the next big
36:47thing bye
36:55let's stop power let's stop change from rural lights to brighter days equity rising voices strong we're
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