- 2 weeks ago
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00:00But this time, the game has changed.
00:02A fresh wave of fierce investors are out to shake things up and steal the deals.
00:10Joining them tonight...
00:12I'm Jenna Meek. I'm a serial entrepreneur.
00:15I'm currently the co-founder and CEO of Refai Beauty.
00:18Jenna, welcome back to the den.
00:20No, thank you for having me back. I'm excited for today.
00:22When I look in the eyes of an entrepreneur, there is literally one thing I'm looking for.
00:26It's their belief that their idea is going to succeed.
00:30I can see in people's eyes if they're lying to me.
00:32I know exactly what I can bring to a business.
00:34So if there's a fight for an investment, I will be absolutely fighting for it.
00:38I love disagreeing with the dragons. I really, really do.
00:41I am not scared of any of the dragons. If anything, they should be scared of me.
00:55My name is Laura and I'm from Northern Ireland.
00:59My business is all about oats.
01:03Instant oats?
01:05Ruddy made oats?
01:07Yeah, but they're kind of...
01:09They exist?
01:11Yeah.
01:14So the dragons I'm looking for investment from would be Stephen Bartlett.
01:19He would be really helpful with building that community brand, which is what we aim to do at Oak Hill.
01:38Hello, dragons.
01:39My name's Laura and I'm the founder of Oatco Superfuel.
01:44Today I'm here to seek an investment of £50,000 in return for a 5% share of my business.
01:51Leading an active lifestyle and being a busy mum, I found myself seeking nutritious, convenient solutions, and I was disappointed
01:58as to what was available on shelves.
02:01This sparked the passion of me to create Oak Hill Superfuel.
02:05Currently in our range, we have our Just Add Milk overnight oat pouches, our ready-to-eat overnight oats, and
02:11our small bites with big energy, Superbites.
02:15And at Oatco, we aim to fuel the everyday, whether it's a school run, a busy day in the office,
02:21or a gym workout.
02:22We are currently delivering to a strong community of customers through our Shopify website nationwide, as well as being stocked
02:29in over 150 retail stores.
02:31And in the past seven months, we've did 200k in sales, with a 60% gross margin and 28,000
02:38in net profit.
02:40Currently, the market is more protein-focused, but we aim to disrupt the food-to-go market with natural energy
02:47that oats couldn't provide.
02:48And we've got balls.
02:50Excuse the pun.
02:53Now, I've got some samples of our Just Add Milk pouches for you to try, and I'd love for you
02:57to try them.
03:01A range of oat-based food products is the offering from Laura Murphy.
03:06Just take one of those.
03:07That's, what's that one?
03:08That's a vanilla chocolate chip, yeah.
03:11She's asking for £50,000 in exchange for a 5% stake in her business.
03:16How much protein is in your original?
03:19So we're around 6 grams, so it's just the natural energy.
03:23Natural energy.
03:23However, the other three, we've added plant-based protein.
03:27Laura claims her oats stand out from the crowd.
03:30You will notice under your chairs as well, there's also some other products.
03:34But in a sector packed with healthy promises, Peter Jones is keen to know what makes this offering more than
03:42just a mouthful of marketing.
03:48Laura, hi.
03:49Hello.
03:51So it's basically oats with bits in it to give you a super fuel, is it?
03:57So is it, was it just protein or?
04:00No.
04:01So give me the contents.
04:03So we aim to be different.
04:05So how we feel at the moment is everything is protein-led.
04:09However, we want to focus on the natural energy from the oats.
04:13Okay.
04:15And in what way is this different?
04:17Is anybody else doing this?
04:18So I suppose it's difficult to say because we have three different products.
04:22So there is three different competitors, depending on which one we look at in particular.
04:28In terms of the pouch product, our point of difference is you actually prepare that in the pouch.
04:34You can reseal, take it with you.
04:36And so that is the USP of the pouch product alone.
04:40Okay.
04:42Laura.
04:43Yeah.
04:44Your balls are absolutely banging.
04:48When something tastes that good, I worry that it's not good for my health.
04:53Yeah.
04:54And I was looking at the nutritional information on this packet, but also on the balls as well.
04:59Are those the best balls you've ever had?
05:01That is so good.
05:04It's really good.
05:05Thank you so much.
05:06That's got to be, like you say, that's such a good point.
05:07It's got to be bad for you.
05:09Yeah.
05:09Well, some of the flavors are slightly more on the indulgent side, but we're mindful of that.
05:15And we're trying to appeal to that target consumer that still wants it to taste good, but is mindful of
05:20their health.
05:22On the balls, it says there's 20 grams of sugar per 100 grams.
05:26Yeah.
05:26It is something we're definitely mindful about.
05:29And we've had conversations recently on how we can improve.
05:32And in our new product development, we are taking that on board and 100% trying to make them as
05:38well-rounded as possible.
05:39Okay.
05:41Laura, hi.
05:42Got to tell you, yes, they're high sugar, but they're delicious.
05:47Thank you so much.
05:50So, how much are they selling for?
05:52The pot you're holding retails for £3.79.
05:56Okay.
05:57And I've seen the overnight oats in tubs, but I don't think I've seen this on top.
06:02Is that yours?
06:03That's our USP.
06:03Yeah.
06:04Okay.
06:04So, that makes it quite unique.
06:06Yeah.
06:06But if I was buying a sort of standard overnight oat, what would that cost me?
06:12They would retail probably around the £2.99, £3 mark.
06:16Okay.
06:17And what about your retailers?
06:18You've got 150 stores.
06:20Who are they?
06:20So, we're mainly direct-to-store, and it's a mix of Spar, Sentra's, Apple Greens is a big customer to
06:27us, all based in Northern Ireland.
06:28And this week, we're actually launching into Tesco as well.
06:33Tesco Northern Ireland?
06:34Yeah.
06:34Tesco Northern Ireland.
06:35Okay.
06:36And do you have any stores in the rest of the UK?
06:40Not as of yet.
06:41Okay.
06:44Laura, hi.
06:46Hello.
06:47I'm probably your customer here, and I think that's what makes me quite different to the rest of the Dragons,
06:51because I'm not super educated around kind of what I need to put into my body.
06:56Like, I look at these packaging, and the first thing I look at is calories, because that's the world I've
07:00been brought up in.
07:00I don't understand the rest.
07:02So, as a customer, explain to me why I need your product.
07:06So, it's something substantial that you can eat, and I eat it every morning.
07:10And being a busy mum as well, like, it keeps me going throughout the day.
07:16Okay.
07:16And then, what is it you're looking for in a Dragon to help with this business?
07:21Yeah, so, like, I want Oco to be a household name in many regions, particularly in the UK and Ireland.
07:27And I think with the Dragon on board, it gives me that platform to help achieve that.
07:33Okay.
07:35I'm going to tell you where I am.
07:37I mean, oats are a superfood.
07:39Yeah.
07:39They're incredibly good for your heart.
07:42Yeah.
07:43You know, control your cholesterol levels.
07:45Yeah.
07:45So, I think the oat story is very, very strong.
07:50And I tell you what, you've done really well.
07:52This is, like, one of the most hotly contested markets.
07:54If you go in anywhere, there are loads of blinking protein balls and energy balls.
07:59So, to actually stand out in that, and that is absolutely delicious.
08:05Too delicious.
08:06Scarily delicious.
08:07Scarily delicious.
08:08Exactly.
08:08In fact, I meant to have just one little nibble.
08:11I've been back in three times.
08:15So, so much to like about this business.
08:20But there's a problem, and it's the sugar.
08:26Okay.
08:26Yeah.
08:28I wouldn't eat that because of the high content.
08:32Yeah.
08:32Now, I know I'm purist, but the direction of travel is against sugar.
08:38So, I'm really sorry I won't be investing.
08:41No problem.
08:41Thanks for the words, anyway.
08:42And I am really sorry I won't be investing, but I'm out.
08:49Laura, you are fantastic.
08:53But this is just a market that I'm just not happy to invest in at the moment.
08:58I think it's hyper-competitive, and you're going to struggle with this at the moment.
09:03So, I'm going to say that I'm out.
09:09Laura, I'll tell you where I'm at.
09:11I think you're amazing.
09:12You're so investable.
09:14There's a lot of work to do with actually defining the purpose and that kind of vision.
09:18Like, I know you want to own the natural energy market, but that's not a brand purpose.
09:22That's what just, that's, I'm like, why, why?
09:25Like, I still need to understand why.
09:27What is natural energy?
09:28Why do I need it?
09:29And I think that needs to be laser-focused.
09:31And I feel like I could offer so much help in terms of that, in terms of the branding,
09:36in terms of the lifestyle, in terms of the persona.
09:39I don't know the food market, and that's just me being completely transparent at all.
09:48So, I am going to make you an offer, but it's a bit of a wild card because there isn't
09:54any other offers yet.
09:56You asked for £50,000 for 5%.
10:00I'll offer you half of the money for 7.5%.
10:04And I'd want to share with someone else that actually understands the food market,
10:08because I know what I can bring.
10:09It's fantastic.
10:10Yeah.
10:11And you're a fantastic entrepreneur.
10:12Once you get the branding spot on, we can make it a cool, untrend product.
10:16We can get the persona perfect.
10:17But I want that help at the other side, at the retail side as well.
10:21Perfect.
10:22Thank you very much.
10:27Laura.
10:30I know retail.
10:31Yep.
10:32Yep.
10:36And I do like what you presented today.
10:42So, I will also offer you half the money.
10:45That's £25,000 for 7.5% if Jenna wants to share.
10:50Thank you very much.
10:56Laura, I am such a big fan of you.
11:03I have quite a lot of experience now in this industry.
11:08Have a brand that came into the den that's making tens of millions now in just a couple of years
11:11from retail.
11:12And actually, one of the most useful things I could do is to sit you in a room with one
11:17of the investments I've made
11:21who exploded in the UK market and really understand how they did that.
11:26Yes.
11:28So, I'm going to make you an offer because I think you're fantastic.
11:32I'll offer you all of the money for 17.5% of the business.
11:48Thank you very much.
11:53So, thank you so much, firstly, for all of the offers.
11:56It means a lot.
11:58So, I suppose, just Stephen, I did have a cap of 15% in my head.
12:04So, I suppose if you had the money paid back within sort of a two-year period, would you drop
12:13to 10%?
12:15To 10%?
12:27I'm not the biggest fan in the world of the deals that drop because it's almost like punishment for success
12:33in a weird way.
12:34I suppose 15% is what I said was my cap and that's what I'm struggling with.
12:39Okay.
12:44I'll do 15%.
12:46You do 15%?
12:47I'll do 15%.
12:49Well, I'd love to accept your offer.
12:50Let's do it.
12:51Thank you so much.
12:54Well done.
12:55And we're dressed the same as well.
12:56We coordinated.
12:58Thank you so much.
12:59I can't wait to work with you.
13:00See you soon.
13:01Bye.
13:02Victory for Laura.
13:03After tough negotiations, she secures Stephen Bartlett's backing.
13:09Her oat empire is officially expanding.
13:16Breathe.
13:17I'm still catching my breath.
13:21Amazing.
13:22I couldn't have asked for it to go better, really.
13:24I'm delighted.
13:26That's a great entrepreneur to invest in.
13:28Yeah.
13:28She was so good.
13:29So good.
13:30So, so good.
13:30Excellent.
13:31And it is serendipitous.
13:32You did look the same.
13:34Yeah.
13:50Intimidating photographs.
13:53I can't kiss my helmet.
13:55My name's John O'Donnell, and I'm joined today with my son, Jamie, and we've created Screwcaddy.
14:03DIY.
14:04Okay.
14:05Definitely DIY.
14:06Definitely DIY.
14:08I could do with a few more DIY things.
14:10What have you got, Peter?
14:12I've got a toolkit.
14:14You've got a toolkit?
14:15What's the last DIY you did, Peter?
14:18I think I've hung her picture up.
14:23I believe Deborah would show the most interest in her product.
14:26Just in the sector that it's in, I feel like it would perk her interest the most.
14:30So I'm definitely confident and ready to go.
14:41Hi, Dragons.
14:42My name's John O'Donnell, and I'm joined today with my son, Jamie, and we form part of the
14:49family team who created Screwcaddy.
14:52Today, we are looking for a £50,000 investment for a 40% stake in our business.
14:59In 2020, during lockdown, me and my mum were doing various DIY projects in and around our home.
15:05One of these projects in particular involved screwing a bracket to a fence for a hanging
15:10flower basket.
15:11Through this, we had many deflected screws, and it caused several near-miss injuries.
15:16So we went out to see if there was a product on the market that could solve our issue, but
15:21we struggled to find anything to solve our solution.
15:23So, as a family, we'd go at trying to create up a product of our own.
15:29So, Dragons, a traditional method for uncertain screws is you secure the screw with your fingers
15:35while also trying to handle a power tool, which is particularly difficult and can cause possible
15:41injuries.
15:43However, if you look at our product, you can see that my fingers are away from the screw,
15:48and it allows the DIYer to focus purely on the power drill.
15:55As the screw head comes down, it makes contact with the angled top side of the Screwcaddy.
16:01Screwcaddy pops off.
16:06And the job's complete.
16:08We were introduced to a third party who helped us a lot during the development stages of the
16:13product, and we now have a manufacturing site here in the UK.
16:18Screwcaddy is patent pending, and we are looking for that dragon or Dragons who can ultimately
16:24put a Screwcaddy in every DIYer's toolbox.
16:28If you would like to come up, the wood we have actually brought in is very, very hard,
16:33so just to make you aware, you need to give it some welly to get it in.
16:40A lockdown invention that takes the pain out of drilling is the offering from John and Jamie O'Donnell.
16:48So, your fingers go to the side.
16:50Yeah, no, I've got that.
16:51I'm just doing that while I...
16:52OK.
16:52All the way down.
16:55The inventive father and son duo are seeking an investment of £50,000 in return for a 40% share
17:04in their business.
17:05Yeah, and then pull it off.
17:08Oh, OK.
17:09That's good.
17:11The product gets a nod of approval from the DIY doyen of the den, Deborah Meadon.
17:18But it's Tuukka Suleiman who's the first to drill down into the potential of the business.
17:26John and Jamie, just so you know, I've got no investments in DIY.
17:32This could be my first.
17:36So, have you shown this to any major retailers?
17:42Yes.
17:43So, the very first people we contacted was GML, and they asked for costs and samples for up to £750
17:50,000.
17:50We have been to B&Q, and they've had samples.
17:55So, we have had a lot of interest, but it's converting the interest to sales.
18:01So...
18:02It's been a blocker.
18:03Have you turned over anything?
18:07£80.
18:09£80?
18:10Yes.
18:10Right.
18:11So, £80 turnover, but I can see you want to give away 40% of the business.
18:17Yes.
18:19So, you really want to entice a dragon?
18:21Yes.
18:24Jamie, John.
18:26When I was watching Deborah have a go at it, it still looked quite dangerous to me.
18:33I think because this screw, when put in the biggest hole here, is still really about five millimetres away from
18:38your finger still,
18:39which means it could still, you know, hit the edge of the plastic and then hit your finger.
18:45So, I just wanted to see if you had a response on that point.
18:48Yeah.
18:49I take your point about the apertures at the side of screw caddy.
18:56You are a couple of millimetres away from your...
18:57Do you agree with that? Because I don't.
19:00Sorry?
19:01Do you agree with that? I mean, it's your product, and I'm about to defend it for you.
19:05Is there another answer to that?
19:09He agrees with it.
19:12So, the danger is the wobble.
19:16This stops the wobble.
19:18OK.
19:19So, it's not the proximity to your thumb.
19:22It's the fact that if the screw head wobbles to one side...
19:26Yeah.
19:26..then you're in danger. That's holding it solid.
19:30Is that what you meant to say?
19:31Yes. Sorry.
19:32That's what he meant to say.
19:35My other point was around the combination of metal and plastic.
19:40So, what I did is I took the screw in and out over and over again.
19:44Yeah.
19:44Repeatedly like this.
19:45Yeah.
19:45And the plastic has worn off, so now it basically doesn't fit anymore.
19:50So, what we've...
19:51What the third party who done the development work with us,
19:55they tried to destroy it with the roughest screws they could find.
19:59They worked out.
20:00If you were using it, the same aperture, the same size,
20:04you'd be talking and you'd get about 35 screws.
20:07So, when it's...
20:0735 screws?
20:08Yeah.
20:10And how much does this cost?
20:12$4.99.
20:13Okay.
20:14The equation is not great there,
20:16being able to do 30 screws before it breaks.
20:18And actually, I think the consumer will have a bigger expectation
20:21of longevity from the product.
20:25While the question was about the percentage,
20:27what's the current shareholding between you guys?
20:31There's three shareholders.
20:32It's me, my wife, and Jamie.
20:34And it's just a third share each.
20:36Okay.
20:36Which means that the Dragon would be the major shareholder.
20:39Yeah, we would change our structure, obviously,
20:42to make it a 60-40 spot.
20:45Keep it simple.
20:48Guys, can I ask you, what's your patentable step?
20:52What's your claim?
20:54It's the way it holds the screw,
20:56and it's the way it releases the screw.
20:58It's the angled edge,
20:59and it's the transfer of that vertical force,
21:02the horizontal force that forces the screw caddy off.
21:04Okay, so it is quite specific as to why this works,
21:09and what you're telling me is it wouldn't work
21:11if you didn't have those angles right.
21:13You've obviously been through lots of iterations.
21:16Yeah.
21:17Okay.
21:20John, Jamie.
21:22Hi.
21:22Hi.
21:24I think it looks really good.
21:26I think it does what you said it was supposed to do on the tin.
21:31But I think it's really expensive at five pounds.
21:34You know, you can get a pack of screws for five quid,
21:36and you're selling your product that holds the screws for the same price.
21:40So I just wonder whether this becomes, like, a really considered purchase,
21:45so I don't really want to buy and spend five quid on it.
21:48Or is this something that, frankly, what you should really do
21:51is perhaps license this to the people that put these screw packs together,
21:57and this could be a product that you see in the pack as a giveaway.
22:01Yeah, adding it on to buying a bag of screws
22:04was something that we considered right at the very start.
22:08It's interesting, though, because I don't think it's attached to the screw.
22:10I think it's attached to the drill.
22:12The dangerous bit in this whole process is the drill.
22:15And the trouble is this product feels very expensive against a pack of screws.
22:19Yeah.
22:20It doesn't feel at all expensive against a drill.
22:26John, Jamie, I do think the price is probably an issue.
22:33And to me, it feels like you would like a dragon to come in
22:38and run the business for you.
22:41And I say that because you've not had any luck yet with sales,
22:43and you're willing to offer the dragon the opportunity
22:46to be the single biggest shareholder in the business effectively.
22:49And that comes with an obligation
22:51that I don't feel comfortable meeting.
22:55So I'm going to say that I'm out, but I wish you the very best.
23:01John and Jamie, hi.
23:02Hi.
23:03I'll just tell you where I am,
23:04because I think where I'm stuck with this
23:06is given the 40% away,
23:09it's no one is going to drive this business
23:12more than you two standing there.
23:13And, like, I got 50 no's from a retailer.
23:17And I think they even blocked my email address at one point
23:20because they were like,
23:21this girl is so annoying.
23:22But I was delusional.
23:24And you have to be so delusional in your product
23:27that, like, a no is like a...
23:30Right, I'll try it another way.
23:32I'll try it another way.
23:33And I'm just not feeling that.
23:35So that's kind of where I'm at.
23:37And I can only get behind something that
23:39you need to be more delusional than me on this.
23:41And right now, there's no delusional here.
23:44So, well done.
23:45But I am out.
23:52Guys, to try and sell this product on its own
23:56will cost you a lot of money.
23:58Yeah.
23:59You could make it into a set.
24:02Somebody comes in, they want to buy that screw,
24:05it's already in the packet, and that's Peter's idea.
24:07I won't take it away from him.
24:09But I would say this,
24:11I'm not your right dragon for this.
24:14So I'm going to say that I'm out,
24:15but I wish you all the best.
24:16Thanks, Tika.
24:20John, Jamie,
24:22I really think it's genius that you came in and offered 40%.
24:28Because you want to make it attractive for a dragon.
24:31Yeah.
24:32So as a dragon that really likes opportunity
24:34and never likes to miss out,
24:37and bear in mind there is one dragon here
24:38that's had quite good little bit of success with DIY.
24:43I'm just going to pause for a moment and reflect.
24:57So somebody stood in here about 10 years ago.
25:02A couple stood in here, Jenny and Martin,
25:05and they had a genius DIY product.
25:08And Martin said, I'm an inventor.
25:10I haven't got a clue about business,
25:12but I'm an inventor and I know it works and it's brilliant.
25:15That was Marksman Pence.
25:18They didn't know the numbers.
25:20They haven't talked to the right people.
25:23But there was something about them
25:25and there was something about their product.
25:26And apart from anything else,
25:27I wanted to find out whether or not they really had something.
25:33And that product now we sell millions of.
25:43So I'm going to make you an offer.
25:47Thank you very much.
25:51We haven't heard it yet.
25:55So you asked for £50,000 for 40% of the business.
26:00I'm going to offer you all of the money.
26:05And I want 30% of the business.
26:08Whoa.
26:12Wow.
26:13Because it's your business.
26:15And I don't want to be the majority shareholder.
26:26So, I think you guys are, you're really great.
26:29I think you've got a really good idea.
26:31It's really neat.
26:34And I think that you've got the perfect dragon for this.
26:39So I'm not going to make you an offer and say that I'm out.
26:42But it'll be interesting when you reflect over there
26:45what your decision is.
26:49Do we need to reflect?
26:51Don't think so.
26:54We would love to accept your offer.
26:56Well done.
26:57Excellent.
26:57Well done, guys.
26:59Well done, you guys.
27:00Great.
27:01Success for the father and son team.
27:04Thank you very much.
27:05John, Jamie.
27:05Thank you very much.
27:07Well done.
27:07Can you be a little bit more excited?
27:09Seriously, I'm more excited than you at the moment.
27:12We'll be jumping.
27:12Come on, a little bit of a...
27:14Yeah, thank you.
27:15Thanks very much.
27:16The DIY duo have secured their dream dragon
27:21and managed to achieve that rare feat of leaving the den,
27:25having given away less equity than they offered.
27:31I'm all over the moon that I've got Debra in the team.
27:34I can't believe it.
27:35It's absolutely amazing.
27:37They seemed in shock.
27:40That was like, yeah, thanks.
27:45Can't wait to tell mum.
27:46I'm so proud of my dad because to see the whole journey come together like this is just unbelievable.
28:04Well, here we are.
28:05Right then.
28:06The den.
28:07My name is Fred Parry, and I'm from London.
28:10Look at this thing.
28:12I can't imagine many people who have been dressed as a chicken in the den.
28:16I am wearing a chicken costume because I built a game where someone hides in a chicken costume.
28:21And I thought it was only right to put me in it today.
28:26The dragons are probably going to guess we're a birthday party, fancy dress thing.
28:32They're going to think someone's obsessed with chickens, probably.
28:37Children's entertainer.
28:38Ah.
28:40Well, well, well, well, well.
28:43Honestly, it's a really good chicken.
28:45Do you know what?
28:45It's good to know you have a plan B sometimes in life.
28:47In life, you should always have a plan B.
28:52I'm nervous.
28:54This chicken costume seals in all the heat.
28:57I'm going to be roasted in that den.
29:00Roasted chicken.
29:06One, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, ten.
29:38I don't know what to do now.
29:40I was about to applaud and then I thought, maybe not.
29:43Oh, please, please.
29:46Wow.
29:47It's scary.
29:49Please.
29:54Hello, dragons.
29:55My name is Fred and I'm asking for £50,000 in exchange for 10% of my business, Chicken Rush.
30:01We are a real world GPS powered game of hide and seek.
30:04Teams race to find someone hiding in a pub or bar dressed as a chicken and use our app as
30:11a live radar.
30:12Along the way, they complete silly challenges, compete for points and submit photos and videos as proof.
30:19It's team-based, tech-driven and utterly ridiculous.
30:22In year one, we turned over £55,000.
30:26In year two, we forecast £164,000.
30:29We've had over 7,000 players across 50 countries with no full-time staff.
30:34We've had over 5 million views on social media with barely any marketing spend.
30:39I built the platform myself, the tracking, the booking system, the scoring, the lot.
30:45It's scalable tech that can pop up in any city tomorrow.
30:49I've proven it works, now I want it to grow.
30:52With your help, we can achieve global chicken domination.
30:57A real world game of hide and seek with a tech twist.
31:01Using GPS and a custom-built app, Fred Parry is reinventing outdoor play for the digital age.
31:10See you.
31:12The entrepreneur is seeking an investment of £50,000.
31:18Terrifying.
31:19In exchange for a 10% share in his feathered venture.
31:23But will the dragons flock to the opportunity or cross the road to avoid it?
31:33Fred, I can't work out whether you're looking for an investment or you're looking for a dragon to dress up
31:39as a chicken.
31:41Very much looking for an investment to grow the game.
31:44Most of our games at the moment are team-building games.
31:47So someone dresses up as a chicken, often the boss of a company, perhaps, and hides.
31:53Okay.
31:54So I'm trying to work out what this business is.
31:59It's hide and seek for adults.
32:01So one person hides, a circle appears on a map that gradually shrinks around their location.
32:07And then there's also challenges teams do while they're playing the game.
32:11So it's not just about finding the chicken, but you get 100 points for finding the chicken first.
32:16Okay.
32:18So I want to know about you.
32:20What's your background?
32:21Yeah.
32:22You built this yourself.
32:24I just want to know, who am I invested in?
32:26Which chicken am I going to invest in?
32:27Yeah, from the beginning, I was building online learning games for kids.
32:32But over time, and I think a lot of people now who are software developers find this,
32:37they're not meeting people on the other side.
32:39They're not seeing how their tech is used.
32:41So I had a bit of a disillusionment with that.
32:44So I wanted to prove that I could build one bit of tech where I know that people were enjoying
32:50using it.
32:51Meeting the people, playing the game.
32:53This was like the perfect example and perfect case study for me being able to do it.
32:57And then we hosted a public dating event for 40 singles to get it off the ground, which is a
33:02bit strange.
33:03Like there's one thing, a chicken chasing game, and then there's also a date involved with it.
33:07Well, people want to be distracted by the fact that they're on a first date.
33:11So it turns out our dating events became really popular.
33:13And we had a wait list of over 2,000 singles in London.
33:17Single people wanted to come and play this game to meet somebody else.
33:22People have found love while hunting chickens, yeah.
33:27Right, so let's look at the serious part of this situation, the business part.
33:33So how do you monetize this?
33:36How do you organize it?
33:38Yeah.
33:38I just want to know.
33:39Yeah.
33:41So there's two types.
33:43You get the tech and you play with your friends for £15 per person in a team building setting or
33:49just for fun.
33:50Or sometimes with large companies, they've got a big budget.
33:54They just want to hassle-free someone to come here, hand over a chicken costume, explain the rules, and then
33:58you play the same game.
34:02Fred, how does this get big?
34:05What does big mean to you?
34:11Big is getting into definitely at least every city in the UK, as well as any city which has enough
34:19hiding spots in them.
34:21And what does, in terms of quantifying big, what does that look like?
34:25The number I've had in my head is 100 games a day.
34:28And if you did 100 a day, what does that look like in terms of revenue?
34:33It's 30 grand revenue.
34:36A day?
34:37Yeah.
34:40Fred, hi.
34:42Hello, Deborah.
34:42Have you forgotten by now that you're dressed as a chicken?
34:46You do start to, if you wear it enough times.
34:50OK, so what next?
34:53I mean, you know, it's a cool, funny, eye-catching idea.
35:00Yeah.
35:00And I can imagine my corporates, who are desperate to find the next thing and not do the old paintballing
35:07thing for corporate events.
35:09So I can imagine them thinking, oh, that looks new and different.
35:12But if you're really going to leverage this business, you need to become the place to look to the innovative
35:18ways of building teams, don't you?
35:20Yeah.
35:21You know, so what next?
35:23What's your plans?
35:24At the moment, my core focus is just to grow outside of London.
35:28With your investment, though, it's about scaling the casual games.
35:31So birthdays, stags and hen do's.
35:34Easter.
35:35Easter, turkey hunt for Christmas.
35:37All of these things.
35:38But at the moment, it's just been me working on this.
35:41So I just had to focus on one small thing at a time.
35:45OK, so you're on your own at the moment.
35:47Yeah.
35:48Are you just going to keep moving yourself around the country?
35:50For the next year, that would be our main focus.
35:53It's you.
35:54Yeah.
35:55But we'd have part-time help brought in for each event.
36:00Fred, hi.
36:01I love adding the crazy into business, but then on the flip side, I hate organised fun.
36:08Yeah.
36:09I love the dating idea.
36:11I think that's genius.
36:12But I think where you're almost missing that trick is actually making this a thing before you pigeonhole it into
36:19the corporate world, into the dating world.
36:21And it's like, if that wasn't on Inventbrite in London, and you've got everyone in London like, hey, do you
36:27want to go to Pilates today?
36:28Do you want to go and get coffee?
36:30Or do you want to go and do this crazy thing I just saw called Chicken Rush?
36:32Like, you get everyone doing it.
36:35And then you pigeonhole it into corporate, dating, whatever you want.
36:39And it's like, yeah, how do we make this bigger?
36:43And how many people come back?
36:45So once they've done Chicken Rush, do they then delete the app or do they stay on?
36:49Do they do another one?
36:50Like, what?
36:51So, as far as numbers are concerned, 5% in year one of our corporates came back.
36:58And then 10% of the people that came to one of our events came back.
37:02Some have played over five times.
37:16I'm like, I'm really, I'm really into businesses that are able to bring people into the real world and find
37:23ways for them to connect.
37:25And especially businesses that are a platform to scale that globally.
37:30So what am I investing in here?
37:31Am I investing in a platform that has scale?
37:35That's really the pitch that I think really would have swung me, is something like that.
37:39We have built that events platform in the background.
37:42So a huge part of it is for all our dating events.
37:44The thing you pitched to me today was a chicken game where people hide in pubs.
37:49True.
37:51If it sounded different, if it had started with the big picture, the macro, loneliness epidemic, people despairing at dating
37:58apps, letting them down.
37:59So we're building the platform for social, competitive, in real life games.
38:04I would have been like, ooh, here we go.
38:06I rewrote that on Sunday, but then I got worried that you wouldn't understand what the game was.
38:10So the whole pitch was all around us, pubs are closing, there is a loneliness epidemic.
38:17That was the pitch.
38:18That was the pitch, the whole thing.
38:19That was the pitch.
38:20The key to pitching for me is you start with the why.
38:24Pubs are closed, loneliness epidemic.
38:25I would have been nodding like a dog.
38:27Yes, yes, yes.
38:28And then you build it up and say, so, we've made this.
38:30And I go, ooh, interesting.
38:32But what you did is you started with the what?
38:33You started with the chickens hide in pubs.
38:35And I'm like, ugh.
38:36My original pitch was just that exact story.
38:40It might be the story, but it's not the business either that you have.
38:44That's the difference, is it?
38:46Well, this is one.
38:48This is a chicken game with a GPS tracking device.
38:51Yeah, we get hundreds of people outside interacting.
38:56The whole aim and ethos of this is just trying to get people outside and playing and meeting new people.
39:03That's why I set it up anyway.
39:05Yeah.
39:06Fred, look, I think it's great.
39:07I think that it's a tough one to invest in.
39:13It really is.
39:15And sadly, I'm going to say that I'm out.
39:18But good luck to you.
39:20Thank you, Peter.
39:25I do think you need an investor.
39:27But I think it's going to be tough for you to get an investor based on what your pitch was
39:31today.
39:32Okay.
39:32The chicken thing.
39:33Because it's really, really fun.
39:35But it's also quite distracting in a way where an investor is trying to understand the potential and the scale
39:41of this business.
39:43The way that you came in with the chickens and that Deborah Meaden and Peter Jones' face.
39:48I mean, that was distracting.
39:49But the whole thing kind of diverted me from the real problem you're trying to solve here, which I've managed
39:54to tease out of you, which is loneliness, connection, bringing people together in real life in an increasingly digital world.
40:00That is it.
40:03That's an inspiring proposition.
40:05But the proposition I saw today wasn't that.
40:11So I'm going to say that I'm out.
40:13But I wish you the very best.
40:18Fred, I think you need investment because you need people around you.
40:24My issue is that I can't personally see how I can spend the time that you need in this business.
40:34So I won't be investing, I'm out.
40:37Thank you, Deborah.
40:41Fred, I'm going to tell you where I am.
40:43Hi.
40:44I'm not interested in chicken games at my age.
40:48Okay.
40:49I'm going to say, I'm going to go back to my little cage.
40:53Yeah.
40:53Not invest, and I'm out.
40:55Thank you, then.
41:00Hi, Fred.
41:01Hello.
41:03I just panicked there, I got your name wrong.
41:04I was like, did it.
41:07No, I just think you're great.
41:09I think you're great, and I think you're amazing.
41:11And for me, I feel like there is something in this chicken play.
41:16But I think this needs to be blown up stronger.
41:20Make it massive, and then you cash in with corporates, with dating.
41:25Once you've made this chicken game a bigger thing,
41:28I do generally feel that if I came on board,
41:31I would just be giving you the same advice that I've kind of given.
41:34But I would love to help you in however I can,
41:36so I'm not going to be your business partner,
41:38but I can be that person to call,
41:40and this is going to be huge, and you're going to be huge.
41:42I think you need to keep going.
41:43But I am out, but I wish you all the best,
41:45but I will definitely help you.
41:47Good luck, Fred.
41:48Good luck, Fred.
41:48Cheers.
41:50Cheers.
41:52Sadly for Fred, he's failed to land any of the dragons.
41:58Though he has managed to secure a wingwoman in Jenna Meek.
42:02I love the idea of getting everyone out together
42:05and creating something.
42:08It just wasn't something enough.
42:11Jenna was really helpful.
42:13She gave me some advice about how to have mainstream appeal.
42:16So expect to see more chickens popping up in other cities tomorrow, maybe.
42:33I'm Rachel Williams.
42:35I'm from a small town in Lancashire in the north of England,
42:38and my business was born on the top of a mountain in the French Alps.
42:45Nice, bright packaging.
42:47Lip creams.
42:47It's a lip brand.
42:49Definitely a lip brand.
42:51It's been a long journey, and many, many people said you'll never make it in this industry.
42:58And being a northern girl, I kind of thought, well, I'll show them.
43:02So I did.
43:05So, yeah, I feel quite proud that I got here.
43:17Hello, dragons.
43:18I'm Rachel.
43:19I'm a physiologist, and I'm the founder of Albus & Flora,
43:23a specialist, award-winning skincare brand that provides targeted support for the lips and skin around the mouth.
43:32I'm here today to ask for £50,000 in return for 15% equity in my business.
43:41Lines and wrinkles around the mouth, thinning lips, chronic dryness, cold sores, sunburn, and lip cancer
43:50affect the confidence and comfort of millions of men and women every day.
43:56UV exposure and sun damage are known to impact on these concerns.
44:01However, UV lip protection is not always used on a daily basis in people's skincare routines.
44:09We've launched two products so far, Lip Shield, which is an SPF lip balm,
44:15and Lip Facial, which is an exfoliating and plumping treatment mask.
44:20We currently provide products to 370 aesthetic clinics, spas, and beauty salons.
44:27We also supply direct to our customers via our website.
44:32To date, we have delivered £695,000 worth of accumulated turnover,
44:37and we want to develop a clinic and consumer brand that can be accessed globally.
44:45Whoa!
44:47Breathe, Belka.
44:48Breathe!
44:49I can breathe.
44:53Products which both prettify and protect the lips are the offering from Rachel Williams.
44:59In the large square box, you've got a part of the Lip Facial,
45:03and then in the smaller boxes, you've got the SPF Lip Shield.
45:09She's looking for a £50,000 investment in return for a 15% share in her business.
45:16Can I just tell you, when you do your lipstick, you only have to put it out about that much,
45:20even, not even that much, just a bit at the end.
45:23That's it.
45:25Rachel believes her targeted approach fills a gap in the ever-growing skincare market.
45:31How does it look?
45:32No, it's good.
45:34But will the dragons be convinced by her pout-focused pitch?
45:42So, have I got this straight, that this is essentially the unique selling point of this business,
45:47is that it protects my lips from sun damage.
45:51Yes, and people don't realise how much damage you can get from daily UV.
45:57And the lip is so thin and delicate, and that means it dehydrates quite quickly.
46:02So, is this a health product versus a beauty product, per se?
46:07The SPF is a lifestyle product.
46:09You know, everybody's got a pair of lips, and we need to look after them.
46:13And how is this different from a lip balm?
46:16Because it's a broad-spectrum UVA, UVB protector, so it is...
46:20What does that mean for a muggle like me that there's nothing about UV anything?
46:23So, it's going to protect you against the damage that UV rays can do,
46:27because UV would come into the skin, and it can impact on the cell's physiology and function,
46:32and sometimes that UV damage is accumulated through your lifetime.
46:38So, it is like a lip sun cream, then?
46:41Yes, the lip balm is, yes.
46:43Lip balm, because I put some of this lip balm on.
46:45But what's weird, this lip balm, I've got a bit tingly,
46:47and it feels like my bottom lip's going thicker.
46:51So, that isn't a lip balm, so that's the advanced treatment mask.
46:55It's not a lip balm.
46:55No, so the lip balms are in the sticks.
46:58So, what's that supposed to do?
47:00So, the lip facial is an exfoliating and plumping treatment mask.
47:05It's plumping.
47:07So, that is a product that we use...
47:09So, that's why that feels...
47:11Yes.
47:11..it's getting thicker.
47:12It's swollen up.
47:14Could I ask you a question?
47:15Yeah.
47:15While you're playing with each other?
47:17No, we're not playing, I'm just asking some very important questions.
47:19Well, they're tingly.
47:20Just tell us about your qualifications in this sector.
47:23Well, qualifications...
47:24I've been a physiologist for many years...
47:27Yeah.
47:27..and supported British teams in three Olympic cycles,
47:31really looking at the impact of environment on health and, you know, physiology.
47:37So, my interest, just so you know, I own the trademark lipstick.
47:41OK.
47:42And I'm about to go retail with it later in the year.
47:46Cool.
47:47So, this is of interest.
47:48Yes, cool.
47:49Just want to make sure you've done 695,000 turnover in total.
47:54Yeah.
47:54So, can you break that down so we can get an idea?
47:57So, the last three years, in 2022, we did 139,000 with a net of 41,000,
48:05which obviously gave us a 29% net profit.
48:08And then, in 2023, we did 143,000 turnover and 27,000 net.
48:17Mm-hm.
48:18And then, in last year, we did, again, 140 and a 15,000 net profit.
48:28So, profits have been going down?
48:30Yes.
48:30Is that because of marketing?
48:31No, it's a strategic decision by me, because when we had that 29% net profit,
48:38I knew that the decision to become a really specialised, focused brand, you know, really
48:44supporting the professional retailers was working.
48:47But I'm, you know, a single entrepreneur with not a huge amount of working capital.
48:54Yeah.
48:54And I needed, therefore, to prepare the business to scale.
48:58So, I wanted to put in foundations in the last two years to help me do that.
49:02So, I've got a new office, a part-time member of staff.
49:06We launched the new product.
49:08We did a rebrand and a refresh, because I wanted to make sure the image was right
49:12for both clinic, market, as well as retail.
49:18Look, you've done quite well.
49:20I mean, the product looks really great.
49:22We do have, it just so happens, an experienced expert in the den today with Jenna.
49:33My question is actually not just to you, because I don't know a lot about this market,
49:37but it would be to Jenna.
49:38Are these sort of types of products widely available?
49:41Is this already out there?
49:43Yes, I guess that was... Hi, Rachel.
49:45Hi.
49:45I think that's what I'm trying to struggle with, is I can probably already find something similar.
49:51Yeah.
49:51Because it's a very crowded market.
49:54I think one of the things that's confusing me a little bit is that kind of vision of where
49:59you see the brand going.
50:00So, like, is this going to be SPF, everything will be focused around SPF, or will it be more
50:06focused around lips?
50:08Like, how does the product range build from here?
50:10So, we've got a few collections planned.
50:12So, the SPF products are all part of the daily care range.
50:16The lip facial is also in the daily care range.
50:19There's then the targeted care range.
50:21This range will focus on supporting clients who've got inflammation, you know, when they're
50:26on acne medication.
50:28Solution-based.
50:29Yeah.
50:29Yeah.
50:29Daily for everyone.
50:31Solution-based.
50:32Yeah.
50:32That range.
50:33And then?
50:33And then third one would be targeting sort of 40 and upwards.
50:37Solution-based.
50:38Okay.
50:38So, if you had a magic wand, what beauty retailers do you see this branding, just so I understand
50:42the vision?
50:44Yeah.
50:44So, I think the more premium end, definitely sort of Liberties, Selfridges, Space NK,
50:51Sephora.
50:52But I think for, you know, Sephora, we would need to increase, you know, our kind of digital
50:57footprint first.
51:00Do your customers love the product?
51:03Yes, they do.
51:04Do they tell people about the product?
51:05They do.
51:06I'm not very good at sharing.
51:08So, they love the product and they tell people about the product.
51:11So, why for the last three years has the revenue been stagnant?
51:17I've almost never seen numbers like this where it's almost exactly the same for three years
51:21at 140k in revenue three years in a row.
51:24Yeah.
51:24Super consistent.
51:25And the reason being that I've invested in the infrastructure and the operations to get
51:30ready.
51:30And I've not been able to do that at the same time as put money into the sales
51:36and marketing.
51:37Okay.
51:38So, one of the things investors look for in businesses when they're trying to invest is
51:41this thing called the growth profile.
51:43And the growth profile is essentially the history of the business and how it looks from
51:48a revenue or profit growth perspective.
51:50Yeah.
51:50If it's flat, it kind of suggests that the future could be flat.
51:55And I like businesses that have a good growth profile, which is a challenge a lot of entrepreneurs
52:00faces.
52:00When you're a solopreneur on your own, you have decisions you have to make.
52:05It's trade-offs.
52:06And the trade-off that you made was to focus on infrastructure and those things first versus
52:11the growth profile of the business.
52:13I think it's quite important to make a different decision, which is to focus on that growth
52:17profile, because that will give an investor the confidence that they have enough growth
52:21to get a return from the business in future.
52:24But the growth profile of the business is an amber flag for me.
52:27And I find it hard to see, based on the last three years and the current year, how an investor
52:33would get their 50K out and a multiple on the money.
52:36So for that reason, I'm going to say that I'm out.
52:37But I wish you the very best.
52:39Rachel, I'm going to be the same.
52:41You've created a great product.
52:44I'm struggling to see the size of the opportunity.
52:50So sadly, I'm going to say that I'm out.
52:53But yeah, congratulations on creating a great product.
53:00Rachel, I think you've hit a market.
53:02And you really, really know your stuff, and you explain it really well.
53:06But the truth of the matter is, you are in a highly contested space.
53:10This is readily available for me, and I buy it.
53:14So I'm afraid it's not an investment for me.
53:17I'm out.
53:23Rachel, hi.
53:24Hi.
53:25I think, I mean, obviously, I know what it's like to develop a beauty product.
53:28So just, please, well done.
53:31The packaging is lovely.
53:32The branding is lovely.
53:33And it's really, really does stand out.
53:36I think in terms of investment, where I'm at is it's not something I feel like I want to invest
53:44in.
53:44Many because it is probably too close to my current business, but more because I can't necessarily see the bigger
53:50vision in terms of everything you want to do.
54:21Yeah.
54:23You are investable, but that's not.
54:25Okay.
54:26And that's where I'm torn.
54:27And I'll tell you why I'm torn.
54:30I am launching a lipstick retail concept later in the year.
54:36Okay.
54:36Um, lip care is definitely a sector that could be included.
54:43Um, what I'm interested in is your knowledge and trying to think how I can kill two birds with one
54:51stone here.
54:52How you can help me with the knowledge and help you with your business.
54:55Yeah?
54:56Yeah.
54:56That would be exciting.
54:57So, your offer was 50,015%.
55:02Yes.
55:05I'm willing to give you the £50,000, but I would want 35%.
55:16Um, 35 obviously is quite high for me as a brand, and I know that it's most likely going to
55:23be multiple rounds to move forward to take the brand to where I want it to go.
55:27So, that's quite challenging.
55:30Would you be prepared to reduce that offer if you got your money back?
55:35Well, if I got my money back within 12 to 18 months, down to 25%.
55:42Okay.
55:43Um, would you be prepared to drop to, um, 20?
55:49Yeah.
55:5425?
55:5830%, I'll go down to 25 when I get my money back.
56:04Okay.
56:05That's a fantastic offer.
56:08Um, I would be happy to work with you, excited to work with you, and definitely happy to accept your
56:13offer.
56:13Great, great, great, great, great, great.
56:15We're going to be a teaser.
56:16Yeah, we can do that.
56:17Yeah, we can do that.
56:17I think so.
56:18Okay.
56:19It's a win for Rachel.
56:21Thanks for all your time.
56:22Well done.
56:23Well done.
56:53She walks away with an offer of support from skincare savant Jenna Meek.
56:53How exciting.
56:55It was her that I really loved.
56:58I'm investing in her as an entrepreneur.
57:02Well, you've got an expert.
57:14Dragon's Den will return later in the year.
57:17Perfect.
57:18I think this is the first time in the den there's been more females than men.
57:23I think this is what I've been looking for for a long time.
57:26I just came out of being your worst nightmare.
57:28I'm about to go back in again.
57:29You're sassy.
57:30I'm like, ooh, go on, go sell more.
57:32Is that the way you work?
57:33Is that what you guys do as investors?
57:35I think this is a wonderful opportunity, and that's why I'd like to talk to Tiny.
57:39Hello, Peter.
57:40I was hoping you'd say that.
57:42Am I happy to share with Peter?
57:44My businesses tell me I should not invest, but my heart tells me I should.
57:50You're setting us all off.
57:52Come here, mates.
57:53I'm so proud of you.
57:54Wow, Gary, you teed that up as if we were team mates.
57:57And then...
57:58That's the most guilty I've ever felt in my life.
58:00Yeah, no, it's great to have you back, Gary.
58:06Noses from Amazon, t-shirts and homeware from TK Maxx and Homesense.
58:11Visit bbc.co.uk forward slash rednoseday for more.
58:14Pretty good at this.
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