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00:00I want to start with a broad question, and that is, as we approach the second week of this war,
00:04how clear to you are the strategic objectives for Israel in this conflict?
00:10Well, first of all, thank you for having me this early morning.
00:12Thank God I got the clock straight before I got here.
00:15You and me both.
00:16This is a big concern for everyone, Ambassador. We're very proud of you.
00:19All of us, yeah.
00:19Let me listen. You know, one thing I've learned in my career here is foreign policy is very complicated.
00:25A lot of things can be true at the same time.
00:27And there's no question that all of us understand that Iran is a wicked regime.
00:33What they have done in the last, you know, multiple decades,
00:37but certainly it's proven by what's happened here in the last couple of weeks.
00:41Not only have they killed, you know, thousands and thousands of their own people who were protesting,
00:47but then they decided, which they've always done, is turned the guns on Israel,
00:50which we have known for and done, seen and witnessed for a long period of time,
00:54but through their proxies between Hamas and Hezbollah and the Houthis,
01:00they made a strategic decision to attack some of their allies in the Middle East,
01:06including Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Qatar, the UAE.
01:08That totally changed the dynamics here.
01:10So one for sure is that this is very complicated, and certainly from my perspective,
01:18I have no tears lost for the Supreme Leader.
01:22The other issue, I think, is obviously what you've been talking about on the air a lot,
01:26is what the endgame is.
01:28And I think, you know, when the Prime Minister and the President talk about regime change,
01:33you know, I've been around this for a long time and was involved in Afghanistan and Iraq and Libya.
01:42Last time I checked, there isn't Jeffersonian democracies in those countries.
01:46So this is really complicated, guys.
01:48And we're going to have to all watch this play out in the next couple of weeks.
01:52I want to ask you about that relationship between the Prime Minister and the President
01:55and how much influence Benjamin Netanyahu has over President Trump.
01:59We've got a statement from the Iranian foreign minister saying that Netanyahu was duped into conflict.
02:05He says they, meaning the American people, have ended up with an administration that Netanyahu,
02:10after decades of failed attempts, finally managed to dupe into fighting Israel's war.
02:15What's your take on that, and how influential do you think Israel was
02:18in convincing Washington to make this decision?
02:21Well, first of all, I don't think I'm going to be suggesting that the Iranian spokesperson
02:25actually knows what he's talking about.
02:28I think there's a couple of things.
02:29First of all, no one, regardless if you love Israel or don't,
02:33to believe that what Iran has been doing to Israel through its proxies.
02:36Look what they did with Hamas.
02:38Look what they did with Hezbollah.
02:40Look what they did to their own people.
02:41So the idea that somehow people have been duped into realizing that Iran is a bad actor is ridiculous.
02:48You know, I do.
02:50I think that, you know, when I worked for President Biden, we supported Israel when the Iranians
02:57attacked Israel for the first time.
03:00You know, I supported them in defense, but also offensively as well.
03:03So I don't think anyone's necessarily called pushing Donald Trump around.
03:07I think that's somewhat absurd.
03:09I do think it is important to step back and to understand two things.
03:14One is we have to understand what the objectives of this is.
03:16How do we determine what success is?
03:19I'm not sure success is necessarily, quote, regime change, but one will have to debate that.
03:24And I do believe Congress has a role here, guys.
03:26I think it's important for us to understand that.
03:29And I think that will be debated for a long period of time,
03:32the role of Congress as it relates to this particular war.
03:37You bring up Hezbollah, and I want to ask you about Lebanon,
03:39because we've seen Israel's attacks now kind of venture into Lebanon more and more.
03:43And I'm going to play a little bit of sound here from Israel's defense minister, Israel Katz,
03:47on what they're doing there in Lebanon.
03:50Let's take a listen to what he had to say.
03:52And the government of Lebanon and Lebanon will pay a heavy price.
03:56If Nazareth destroyed Lebanon, then Naim Qasim will also ruin it in this way.
04:02Again, Ambassador, we see this kind of renewed focus on Lebanon and Israel claiming there's no sort of territorial claim
04:08to Lebanon.
04:09What do you make of the way that this war is moving, again, into that country, not just in Iran,
04:13but into Lebanon as well?
04:15I don't know if you've been to Israel.
04:16I'm sure some of you guys on this, some of the viewers are watching this.
04:20You know, Lebanon shares a border with Israel, as you know, and it's right in the northern border.
04:24It's a huge risk, and certainly Hezbollah has shown to be a terrible actor, again, a proxy of the Iranians.
04:31And I think, you know, we've seen, you know, it's eight months ago, a lot of intense fighting to diminish
04:37Hezbollah.
04:38You have a leader now in Lebanon who the president of the United States has met with.
04:42I think ultimately this is going to continue to be a huge area of friction.
04:47Israel believes that Hezbollah has not been destroyed.
04:50It certainly hasn't been dismantled.
04:53They've been weakened, and certainly the state sponsor of their terrorism, which is Iran, has been weakened.
04:59But it's a huge threat to Israel.
05:01And so, listen, I, for one, have been a big advocate of obviously strengthening the president of Lebanon
05:06to attempt to try to make these sectarian things come together.
05:10But it's hugely problematic for the Israelis, and certainly those Israelis who are living in the northern part of the
05:15country.
05:16I want to shift a little bit and ask you, because you were an ambassador, because you were in the
05:20State Department,
05:20your perspective on the consular part of this.
05:25There has been a lot of criticism that the U.S. did not properly warn Americans in the region, its
05:31allies in the region,
05:32and did not have a plan, even if you needed to keep that as a close hold not to telegraph
05:36the attacks.
05:37There didn't seem to be a fast rollout plan to evacuate Americans out of the region.
05:42You know, we had that one authorized departure for Tel Aviv, but I didn't see them for other places.
05:46And other places around the region, Qatar, UAE, Bahrain, have all been hit really hard.
05:50We've got Americans who are trying to get out.
05:53The State Department now has organized charters.
05:55But what is your response to that initial response from the State Department,
05:58and whether they should have done more or better to get folks out faster?
06:01Listen, you know, I can't sit around and second guess.
06:04I was the Deputy Secretary of State, and I was Ambassador to Israel.
06:08I don't think that there's people at the State Department that are reluctantly trying to communicate with people.
06:13I think, listen, it's complicated.
06:15You're in a military operation happens.
06:17It happens quickly.
06:18As you know, the rules are very quickly quick.
06:20If once the State Department says to the embassy staff that they should depart,
06:28they then have to make sure that any American who wants to leave.
06:31So it can't be a double standard.
06:32And that notice has to be public for that reason.
06:34Yeah, so I think there'll be, yeah, people will step back.
06:37I think, again, I'm not here to be, you know, trying to be overly critical because it's really, really complicated.
06:44The men and women who work at the State Department, the career people, want to do the right thing.
06:48They try to, getting charters in is not simple to do, especially when the airspace is complicated.
06:55So I just, I think everyone needs to, again, believe me, I have been stuck there when rockets.
07:00It's really scary.
07:01I mean, the Emirates and the Saudis and the Kuwaitis and the Qataris are seeing something that they probably,
07:07in most of these people's lives, have never witnessed.
07:10Listen, sadly, you know, I'm talking to my friends every day who are sitting in bunkers four or five,
07:16eight, ten times a day in Israel.
07:19I don't think it's because they're used to it.
07:21They like it.
07:22So I think the region is getting a little bit of feeling what, sadly, what Israel has been through for
07:28a long, long time.
07:29And they don't like it.
07:30And obviously, hopefully they're getting, those Americans who are there are getting out because it is scary sitting in a
07:36house.
07:36I don't think people understand how frightening it is.
07:39And especially in places in non-Israel where they don't have bomb shelters, where drones are flying over your head.
07:46It really, having been there, it's not pleasant and you do not get used to it.
07:50I want to draw more on your experience in the State Department.
07:53So beyond you just being the ambassador to Israel, but the role that you've played there is you look at
07:56the level of diplomatic engagement with other countries as all of this unfolds.
08:00So it does seem like this is very much a mission of the U.S. and Israel at this point
08:03in time.
08:04And we saw yesterday, kind of back and forth between Keir Starmer, the U.K. prime minister, and President Trump.
08:09President Trump suggesting that the U.K. shouldn't join wars after we've already won them.
08:14We saw kind of muted statements from European officials here.
08:17I'm happy with Spain.
08:18Yes.
08:18What should be happening on the diplomatic track at this point in time as the military conflict continues?
08:23What do you think the U.S. should be doing, Israel should be doing to sort of get more allies
08:27onto its side as this war continues?
08:29As you guys, as I said at the beginning, foreign policy is quite messy.
08:33It's just not, it's not, you know, it does not follow a straight line because things happen and unintentionally.
08:38A couple of things that are interesting if you step back and look at this.
08:41First of all, I think the Iranians' decision to attack Saudi Arabia and the Emirates, Kuwait, was a massive mistake
08:50because, you know, as I say, your enemy of your enemy is your friend.
08:53And they certainly have galvanized the rest of the Middle East as it relates to how bad actors the Iranians
08:59are.
08:59That's number one.
09:00Number two, the president's going to need allies.
09:03And not only does the Middle East, he's going to need European allies.
09:06Because if this drags out, you know, obviously there's going to be all sorts of needs for both airspace and
09:11supplies and importance of that.
09:13And I like to remind people, you know, the European countries are fighting a war against Putin and what's going
09:19on in Ukraine.
09:20I mean, we've sort of, you know, you guys aren't talking about what's going on in Ukraine.
09:24This Ukraine thing is just, you know, sadly just went to its fourth year.
09:28So you have a lot of things going on right now.
09:31And, you know, you need, you know, when I was, you know, working at the State Department, you need friends.
09:37You need friends in good times and you certainly need friends in bad times.
09:40And so we're going to see ourselves, I'm sure that the Secretary Rubio and the Trump guys are reaching out
09:47to these allies all the time and trying to get their help.
09:50But your point is 100% correct.
09:53You need allies in times of peace and you definitely need allies in times of war.
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