00:00Well, for more, we're joined now from Kyiv by Veronica Welch, Director of Amnesty International in Ukraine.
00:06Veronica, thanks so much for being with us on the program on what is another difficult day for people in
00:12Ukraine.
00:13Talk to us a little bit about the feeling there.
00:16Despite, you know, the resilience, the optimism that we saw in that report,
00:21do you get the feeling that people are beginning to lose hope that this war is ever going to end?
00:28Well, thank you so much for having me and for talking about Ukraine.
00:31For the other day, we stepped into year number five.
00:35It's painful to say, but it's a reality.
00:38And I know that probably the word of the year would be the resilience for Ukrainians.
00:43But I do not think that Ukrainians are losing hope.
00:47You know, the matter of the fact that Russia wanted to take over the Kyiv and all the Ukraine in
00:53three days.
00:53And after four years of this big war, as we call it, and 11 years of the war that started
01:00by Russia,
01:01we are still here and we are an independent country.
01:04So we are paying the very high price, but we understand what we are paying for.
01:09And it's very upsetting.
01:11It's that we are in this situation, of course.
01:15But I would not call that, you know, I would not ever say that Ukrainians are losing hope.
01:21Ukrainians are getting ready just to fight for as long as it probably would be needed.
01:26And Amnesty highlights the fact that millions have been displaced since the war began.
01:30Countless families have been left homeless, not to mention all of those who've lost loved ones.
01:35Just talk to us a little bit about what life is like for Ukrainians,
01:39particularly as people have been dealing with such a tough winter there.
01:44It's been the hardest winter since the beginning of the big war, indeed.
01:51I am a mother, too.
01:52I have 13 years old and three years old.
01:55And it's been a very hard time for all the parents, for all the kids, for all the elderly people,
02:01for Ukrainian, of course, military forces out here.
02:05And I would say that, you know, we try to help those who need us the most.
02:11And I think one of the darkest nights of this winter, I made my own mantra that there are six
02:17Saturdays until spring.
02:19And, you know, and you count down.
02:21And this is how you survive all this.
02:23You need some strict, you know, idea how much longer you have to.
02:26You have to be in all this.
02:28And it's on your own very measurement.
02:30But, of course, you know, we have a lot of conversation about possible peace talks.
02:35And all the, you know, consequences of this is just an increase in the death toll this war takes on
02:44the civilians.
02:46The 2025 was the deadliest year and the most violent year that took the life of more than two and
02:53a half thousand of Ukrainians.
02:54And 12 thousand of Ukrainians got injured.
02:56So, for us, it's very important, you know, to also to tell that story and to explain how it's hard
03:04for us to remain our presence here.
03:06But it's also very important to be on your own soil as long as you can have it.
03:11And at the beginning of your talk today, you said that Ukraine, yeah, Ukraine is not that you're a wealthy
03:17country.
03:17But I guess that we rethought, you know, many things that as long as you have peace, you are very
03:23wealthy.
03:23And, unfortunately, you know, at the moment we lost that peace, we felt how it's really hard for everyone.
03:30And, unfortunately, also for people there, Ukraine has been coming under an awful lot of pressure to accept Russia's territorial
03:37demands during these peace talks that are now in stalemate.
03:41On what terms do you think people there would be willing to accept a deal with Russia?
03:47We can reassure that Ukrainians really want peace.
03:49And, you know, even there was talk about short break or this or that, but there is a very little
03:54trust in, you know, with the peace that will come without justice.
03:59I will give you an example.
04:01Russia started this war of aggression and it acts as a serial killer.
04:06And when you have a serial killer that runs around with a big knife and stabbing everyone, what you have
04:12to do, you have to stop it.
04:13There is no other chance, you know, you could express concerns, you could start to negotiate, you have to, you
04:20can start to put more and more sanctions.
04:22And, indeed, those sanctions work, but they work.
04:25They just make that blade a little bit shorter, but they still stop people and kill every single day.
04:30So, as long as we're having those conversations, it's Ukraine still pay this bloody toll.
04:38And since there are so many people already been injured, killed, we'll remember about Bucyar, Ipin, Mariupol, more territories, you
04:45know, that have been under occupation for years.
04:47We see what it means to be under occupation.
04:50So, Ukraine cannot really just, you know, make a step back and say, we will forgive and we'll forget.
04:56All the war crimes we document here, all the crimes against humanity that have been documented by the Amnesty International,
05:04other human rights activists, it's all been, you know, created in that way.
05:09And those crimes, they do not have statute of limitations.
05:13So, that doesn't matter when, but, you know, we will still call for justice for those who are responsible for
05:19starting this war of aggression.
05:21And, you know, I do not think that Ukrainians would accept any peace, but just peace, eventually.
05:29Veronica, just before I let you go, you mentioned sanctions against Russia.
05:34Just yesterday, we saw Hungary blocking a fresh round of financial penalties on Moscow.
05:40So, Amnesty pointing out that international support for Ukraine is coming under increasing strain.
05:45What needs to be done?
05:48There should be, you know, strong will to do so.
05:51And there needs a call for solidarity.
05:53And we are all responsible for not turning away from Ukraine, because I know that noise is very hard, the
05:59pressure is very hard and heavy.
06:00We are all getting tired.
06:02We all have our very own problems.
06:04And, you know, you just have to keep going with your life.
06:06But the main thing is to have the clear understanding the authoritarian regime would not pull back.
06:13They will not step back.
06:14You know, the only one thing we can do together, it's really, you know, stand for what we believe in.
06:20And Ukraine believe in democracy and human rights.
06:23And we, you know, just to act together as a Europe, as a united world and support and understand what
06:31we are doing this for.
06:32And we are doing this to protect, you know, the most vulnerable people, the civilians, every single day.
06:38So, this is, you know, I know there's many talks about being neutral, not to get involved into this.
06:44There's no way not to get involved.
06:46There are so many Ukrainians all around Europe right now and the world.
06:49There are so many people.
06:51And I'm very grateful for everyone who has, you know, accepted Ukrainians to their very own home and offered the
06:56support of all this year.
06:57So, we are already also connected in all this.
07:00And I think that everyone feels sort of threat because you do not know how the situation might evolve eventually.
07:07So, it's so much better to be, you know, to have to demonstrate the solidarity, the resistance, and just keep
07:16helping Ukraine and stay with Ukraine.
07:18Veronica, we'll have to leave it there for now.
07:19Thanks so much, though, for your time on the program.
07:22That is Veronica Welch, Director of Amnesty International in Ukraine, joining us live there from Kyiv.
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