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The Rev. Al Sharpton and producer Devon Franklin discuss why the packaging of the Black Lives Matter movement is so important.
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00:00Hi, I'm Lauren Williams, Features Editor at Essence Magazine, and you're watching Essence
00:07Debates Live. I'm joined today by Reverend Al Sharpton and Devon Franklin, and we'll
00:11be talking today about the Black Lives Matter movement. So I just want to jump in and ask
00:16your opinion. Do you think the Black Lives Matter movement is the civil rights movement
00:19of our time?
00:20I think that the Black Lives Matter movement is a name of a continuing movement. And any
00:29time you have movements, there are always slogans that kind of embody that moment. We shall
00:38overcome was one era. And under that, everybody functioned from Dr. King to the NAACP. Later
00:48it was I am somebody. And everybody functioned under that room, Jesse Jackson, all the way
00:53to Stacks. Watch that. No justice, no peace was the era that I emerged in. So I think it
00:59is the name or slogan of a thing that has encompassed everybody from the die-in movements to the NAACP
01:10to what we do in National Action Network. And I think that it is a good thing because it
01:16embodies and capsulizes everything from Trayvon to Charleston.
01:21Right, right. What do you think has been most successful about this movement? What do you
01:26think that the Black Lives Matter iteration of what's been going on for so long has been
01:30able to achieve?
01:31I think that when you look at it, it's the consistent publicity. I think it is the notoriety
01:38around what's going on. And I think because there have been so many issues lately that keep
01:42stoking the fire, where this slogan and this idea that Black Lives do matter, it keeps coming
01:48up and it won't go away. So I think they've been very successful in keeping their message
01:53on the front of the headlines, the front of what's going on. And I think that's the way
01:57or at least one of the ways that we're going to ultimately see some change because these
02:01issues, it's really about the PR around them, right? And how we continue to have the messaging
02:06so that people know this is not going away, right? And I agree with what Reverend Sharpton
02:11said that this struggle for us as a people in this country to be treated equally with equal
02:16rights and equal equality, that's ongoing. It's been going on since slavery days, right?
02:21So I think they've been successful in repackaging the message so that this generation gets it
02:26and understands it in a way that maybe they thought, oh, the Civil Rights Movement was
02:3050 years ago, but Black Lives is now, right? So it's giving people a chance to plug in now
02:35in a way that's relevant and contemporary.
02:37Right. What do you think is next? We've seen outrage poured out on the streets, people
02:42marching, galvanizing, organizing. A lot of people talk about, okay, now we need to see
02:47public policy change. What do you think, in your personal experience with NAN, what do
02:51you think you guys are working on next to really put into play?
02:54Legislative change, criminal justice change, as we continue marching. And see, if you look
03:02at the history of the Civil Rights Movement, even when I was a kid, before I was involved,
03:09you started with sit-ins, lunch counter sit-ins with students. Then it was CORE did the freedom
03:18riders. Martin Luther King never sat at a counter. He never was a freedom rider. He led the marches
03:25and negotiated with Kennedy and then Johnson for legislation. Everybody had their lane. Malcolm
03:30was out criticizing all of it. Thurgood Marshall was in the courts. Harry Belafonte organized Hollywood.
03:37So I think everybody ran their lane, but achieved the Civil Rights Act, the Voting Rights Act,
03:43and real change. I think that the young people in Black Lives Matter, that has very successfully
03:50focused a lot with social media, complements what we're doing in civil rights organizations
03:55that ought to turn it into legislation, complements what people like Devon is doing in terms of
04:00culture and comment. We're not each other's competition. We ought to be each other's compliments.
04:05Sometimes heads bump. Dr. King and Malcolm get along. We romanticize that. There's nothing
04:11new about that. And I think that if we all understand and learn from history, and at the
04:16end of the day understand that if we don't have fundamental change, we will be looked at
04:22in history as failures. And I think that our job at NAND and NAACP and others is to make
04:28sure that we lead the fundamental legislative change and a criminal justice system change
04:33as others do whatever to make that change come about. What role do you think faith leaders
04:39play in today's movement? I think the role of the faith leaders is incredibly vital. You
04:45know, because even with the, you know, somewhat assault on Black churches recently, you know,
04:50the Black church is still the cornerstone of the Black community. And I think it's important,
04:54you know, for faith leaders to stay invested and involved with what's going on in the community
04:58and also what's going on with the movement, because their parishioners are being affected
05:03by it on a day-to-day basis, not just police brutality, but the fight for not only equal
05:07rights, but also equal pay. The fight for employment, the fight for health care, right? All of these
05:13things are directly affected by the parishioners of the majority of Black churches in America.
05:17So the faith leader is a key component in not only advocating for the change, but being
05:23a conduit to the constituents on how to help them and help the community find what they
05:28really need. And I find that, going back to what Reverend Sharpton said about social media,
05:32it's important to use every bit of technology available to us right now to keep this message
05:38alive. When you look at the successful advocacy that the LGBTQ community has done, now mind you,
05:45Prop 8 was just a few years ago, and in a very short period of time, the Supreme Court
05:51has now said, you know, gay rights, you know, it's okay to get married, right? So to go within
05:55seven years almost and completely change policy, it came because they were strategic, they were
06:01organized, and they were united, even though there may have been division between leaders
06:05in the community, they all got together and said, we have to move forward, and we're going
06:09to fight this thing with entertainment, we're going to fight this thing with programming,
06:12we're going to fight this thing with publicity, and I think it's the same thing. So I think
06:15faith leaders play a key component, but I also think it's important for all of us of color
06:20to find our corner of this issue and advocate from that corner. And so for me, being in entertainment
06:25and also being in ministry, it's like, hey, how can I put images on the screen that can show
06:30black life in a different capacity? Because the more we see, I think the better people will begin
06:36to understand that we're not just, you know, that person you think deserves, you know,
06:41to be treated less than. No, actually, we're not just the president, right? But we are different
06:45roles and different images, and these images, I think, help shape culture and help shape how
06:50we are treated. Definitely. Reverend Sharpton, we talk about, a lot about the young people
06:54and their involvement in the movement. How does National Action Network empower and galvanize
06:59the youth to really work around these issues? Well, one, first of all, most of the National Action Network
07:03is led by young people. Our executive director, Janae Ingram, is now 35 years old.
07:08Wow. Most of our chapters are led by people in the early 30s and late 20s. So I think one of the mistakes
07:15that mainstream media makes is they act like they're all young blacks and monolithic. All young blacks
07:21are not militant, anti-church, anti-organization. That's true. There are many and maybe more young
07:28people in the churches and in these organizations than outside. I think that the legitimate
07:33youth movement among those groups is a legitimate movement in these organizations. And we have a
07:38youth department. 17-year-old Mary Pat Hector is our youth department. She joins me when she was 11
07:43years old. So again, I was youth director of Operation Bread Basket under Jesse Jackson. Jesse's like
07:5013, 14 years older than me, like Dr. King was 12 years older than him. So I grew up in the movement.
07:55Most of my friends my age were Panthers or black nationalists. So you would get the pitch that
08:02everybody in my generation was in the Panthers or in black nationalism. But I was the same age
08:08and I was in Operation Bread Basket. Why? Because I grew up in the church and my pastor said I want
08:14him, if he's going to be political, to be with the ministers. And I think that bedrock of the black
08:21church where young people work, you have more young people at youth congresses and churches than
08:25you have at a lot of things. They're not young because they're not what the media projects. And
08:30I think that the responsibility of a lot of us that have gotten older is that you make sure you empower
08:39and you bring about the next generation because you're not going to last. I tell my leaders all the
08:46time. We just had a big convention in April. And our convention probably was the biggest of the civil
08:51rights conventions this year. And I tell them all the time, I say, yeah, I started as a pre-teenager.
08:57I had to go through the traps and run the traps like you did. I said, well, let me tell you something.
09:02Yeah, right now I got a show on MSNBC and I can go to the White House and I can do this, that,
09:06but you know what I can't do? I can't be 40. So if I'm really about what I'm saying,
09:14I need to be able to empower some of you because eventually somebody is going to take the reins sooner
09:21than later from me. And that's inevitable. So you don't fight inevitability. I come out to church,
09:28Moses and Joshua, I mean, the Bible is about continuity. And we must have more of a continuity
09:35and succession of leadership than trying to hold on too long. And I promised God that if I've ever got
09:40in one position, I would not fight the succession because I had to fight my elders. I know what a
09:46lot of these young people went through because I went through it. It wasn't like nobody turned
09:49around and said, okay, it's Alice Chancellor. I had to rumble. I'm making sure that they don't
09:53have to rumble to take it from me. James Brown, who I became close with, always told me,
09:57leave the stage while they still want more. Don't leave the stage. And they say,
10:01I wish Alice would get off the stage.
10:02In light of Charleston, what do you think faith leaders and parishioners should know? What's one
10:10thing that you want them to know in terms of moving forward, keeping the faith and really just,
10:16you know, keeping eyes on the prize, so to speak? Love, love, you know, that. And I think what's so
10:22powerful, you know, the stories that have come out of Charleston, right? Not just the tragedy,
10:27but how that church responded to the tragedy, the forgiveness, right? The power of saying,
10:33we know you did this wrong, but we're still going to love you anyway. And I believe that's one of
10:37the strongest messages we can take out of this is continue to love those communities that may not
10:41love us back, right? Because that is the fundamental message of the word that we stand upon. I think in
10:46addition to that, I think that we should not be afraid because fear will absolutely determine where
10:53we go, which is not going to be successful for the movement. I think it's important to continue
10:56to operate in love, to continue to know that as a community, we will get through this. And then
11:00also, I think it's very, very important to continue to look at the terrorism that's happening right
11:06here in our own community and for churches to begin to no longer, because so many times,
11:11you know, the church has become a way for people to come in, get a good worship experience, and then
11:15go home, right? And so it's been very selfishly focused for probably too long. I think now churches
11:21need to say, okay, how can we have a positive impact in the community? Not just so you can
11:26come and have a good worship experience, but what's going on in our corners? What's going
11:31on within the community in getting our members more active and more concerned? Because I do
11:36believe when you look at Charleston, that church was very much entrenched in the community,
11:41right? And has been for a very long time. And I want to see churches today get back to
11:45that, not just like, hey, let me come in and get a good worship experience and figure out
11:49how I can get further in my life. That is great. But getting further in your life is also
11:54directly connected to how much of an impact are you making on a day-to-day basis with the
11:58people that are affected by the building in that area. So my hope and my prayer is that
12:04this selfish idea of worship and ministry with incidents like Charleston begin to broaden our
12:10understanding that we have to help each other out. We have to be there for each other. Listen,
12:15who knows what's going to happen next, right? We don't know, but we do know we serve a risen
12:19Savior. We do know that he's still on the throne. And we do know at the end of the day,
12:24those nine died in the Word of God. And we know where their future is going to be. So the more we
12:31can continue to put that hope out there, I think that incidents like this won't be the end of the
12:37story, but I think there'll be a continuation of what more we have to do. Awesome. I'm going to end
12:42on that note. Reverend Al Sharpton and Devon Franklin, thank you so much for joining us today.
12:45You've been watching Essence Debates Live. I'm Lauren Williams, and please be sure to tune in
12:49for more segments on Essence.com.
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