- 2 days ago
Seth and Luke discuss if the conversation about CJ Stroud's status with the team would be more publicly up in the air if he weren't such a good-character guy who's held in high regard by his teammates.
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00:00Let's talk about the starting quarterback of your Houston Texans, obviously.
00:05The Stroud conversation continues to carry on all sorts of texts, even when we're talking
00:10about Stroud or even the Texans.
00:11Texts continue to come in this morning and every day about people with their opinions.
00:15I was thinking about this over the last week or two, and actually you guys had a kind
00:20of conversation about something completely different, I think it was yesterday, where
00:23Seth, I think you made the point.
00:25And it's something that we know, but nice guys get more opportunities.
00:30In the workplace, if you have a coworker or an employee who's not great at their job and
00:34the...
00:35If you're a jerk, you'll be quick to move on from them.
00:37But if you have someone who's not great at their job, but everybody likes him and he's...
00:40He's a nice guy.
00:40He's going to get more opportunities.
00:42Well, and also, likewise, I mean, yeah, there's the...
00:45Two things combined, there's likability and competence.
00:48Like competence, you can get...
00:50If you have extreme competence, you can get away with being a jerk, you know?
00:53Right.
00:54But likewise, if...
00:55If you have extreme likability, you can get away with incompetence more.
00:59Yeah.
00:59You can get...
01:00There's always...
01:01100%.
01:01Oh, the NFL coaching staffs.
01:03There's a few guys on a bunch of staff.
01:05They're wildly incompetent, but they're incredibly likable, and the head coach likes them, and
01:08they stick around.
01:09Yeah.
01:10Speaking of the Jets, yeah, Rex Ryan had one of those back in the day.
01:14It was basically just as...
01:15He's the best bud from forever.
01:16He just kept with him all the time.
01:18But it was an assistant.
01:20It was an assistant coach, it was like an assistant ringback's coach or something.
01:23They always found a way to keep him on the...
01:25But yeah, with quarterbacks...
01:30And the fact that CJ likes...
01:32CJ is liked by his teammates.
01:35Like, how much do we read into that?
01:37And it...
01:37Because we were talking about it earlier, and...
01:40It was, you know, Tank Delft, you know, being in CJ's corner and everything.
01:44Those guys...
01:45You guys are best buds, all of that.
01:46I think it's one of those things that you look at it, and it doesn't...
01:50It doesn't mean that that also means that CJ Stroud's an awesome quarterback, just because
01:53guys like him are still...
01:55They don't have faith in him or anything.
01:56I think...
01:57But it's a good sign that there's...
02:00It's obvious that guys don't dislike him.
02:02You know, if all of a sudden it was like, man, people are making...
02:05...comments about him or people are just kind of giving the sign...
02:08Look, when Andre Johnson walked off the...
02:10...field early, because...
02:12Was it Brian Hoyer at the time?
02:13Yeah, it was when Brian Hoyer...
02:15And they caught Andre Johnson saying, just get him off the field.
02:18And...
02:20Looked like you were saying, get him off the field.
02:21Like, it was clear that there had been a loss of faith in, I believe...
02:25...it was Brian Hoyer at the time.
02:26Sorry if it wasn't.
02:27Like, that's...
02:28There were no...
02:30We're near a city that was T.J. Stroud.
02:31No, certainly.
02:32And, like, someone came in on the text line last...
02:35...segment and said, hey, you know, bring back Tankdale, Joe Mixon...
02:38...and then you won't have to worry...
02:40...about C.J. Stroud, because he wouldn't want to let his friends down.
02:42I don't know if I would go, like, that far.
02:43I don't know if that's the driving...
02:45...for us, not letting your friends down.
02:46But my...
02:46I don't, man, I don't...
02:47There's things I don't want to let my family down, but I do continue...
02:50Yeah, right?
02:50Yeah, there's certain things I can and cannot do.
02:52Yeah.
02:53Or I don't feel like doing.
02:54Yeah.
02:55But you can tell me if this is a ridiculous thought or idea, but I was thinking because
02:58Stroud is such a likable guy...
03:00...in the building and even, look, obviously Texans fans are not pleased with his performance
03:04on the field, but...
03:05There's not a lot of bad things you can say about Stroud, the guy himself, and the way
03:08he carries himself and how...
03:10...how he represents the organization at the podium and all that sort of stuff.
03:13So I was just having this thought that if...
03:15...he was some sort of, like, pompous jerk, if he was like an early Baker May...
03:20...who the Browns moved off of, if he was like a current Aaron Rodgers who drives people
03:24crazy...
03:25Do you think the calculus would be different even in the building for the Texans where
03:29they're thinking...
03:30...eh, you know, the play wasn't good enough, at least in the playoffs.
03:33Uh, you know...
03:35He's a little bit of a jerk.
03:36He ruffles a lot of feathers out here.
03:37Like, do you think Stroud will get more...
03:40...or chances in Houston, even if the play isn't good enough on the field just because
03:44he is so...
03:45...well-liked, I guess is my question.
03:46Um, yeah, okay, so immediately I was thinking of Josh Rosen, who seemed very...
03:50...unlikable.
03:51The...
03:52...for whatever reason, people just did not...
03:54There was something about Josh...
03:55...Rosen that you could tell by the way that the anonymous scouts and everybody else talked
03:59about him.
04:00Um...
04:00You know, and with quarterbacks especially, that'll come up.
04:02The guy that wasn't, um...
04:03The guy that wasn't a...
04:05...the college captain or whatever.
04:06You know, the old day.
04:07Nobody attended his birthday party.
04:09That type of...
04:10I think CJ Stroud's far away from...
04:12Like, he's the opposite end of the spectrum when it comes to that.
04:14Mm-hmm.
04:15I think...
04:15I think that's...
04:16It's one of those things where...
04:17It's...
04:18Yeah, it'll work in his favor that he seems to be the...
04:20...right kind of guy.
04:21I think the bigger thing that we wouldn't know is just...
04:25...exactly how dialed in is he and focused compared to other quarter...
04:30...or quarterbacks when it comes to the...
04:32...hey...
04:33...is...
04:34...first guy in the building, last guy...
04:35...to leave, all that type of stuff.
04:36You know, grinding away at film, all of that.
04:39Sometimes that's over...
04:40...overrated...
04:41...partly because the quarterbacks themselves put out a lot of propaganda...
04:44...and CJ doesn't necessarily...
04:45...do that.
04:46That's the part where...
04:48...I...
04:49...sometimes I hesitate...
04:50...to use...
04:51...a...
04:52...teammate's endorsement of a player...
04:54...because these are also...
04:55...young guys who sometimes don't actually know...
04:57...what...
04:58...what...
04:59...how...
05:00...really good NFL quarterbacks operate.
05:01I'd say like David Carr...
05:02...when we were...
05:03...David Carr was well-liked.
05:04...
05:05...but David Carr himself has said...
05:07...man, when he got to the Giants...
05:08...and watched Eli Manning prepare...
05:10...he realized he'd been doing it all wrong.
05:13And...
05:14...I would say that...
05:15...when...
05:15...David Carr was a young quarterback...
05:16...the veterans of us in the building...
05:18...kind of...
05:19...looked at it like...
05:20...heh...
05:21...that's uh...
05:22...boy he's out of the building quickly...
05:23...afterwards...
05:24...and...
05:25...the young guys wouldn't...
05:26...the young guys don't know any better...
05:28...they don't have a clue...
05:29...uh...
05:30...so...
05:30...that part of it...
05:31...I just...
05:31...I have no idea...
05:32...you know...
05:33...like Tank Dell...
05:34...has only played with one NFL...
05:35...the NFL quarterback...
05:36...so...
05:37...yeah...
05:38...he's buddies with CJ and everything...
05:39...of course he's gonna be staying positive...
05:40...things about CJ Stroud...
05:41...um...
05:42...it just...
05:43...at some point...
05:44...at some point...
05:45...it's just gotta be the performance...
05:47...over the next couple years...
05:48...that...
05:48...that puts CJ over the top...
05:50...and I guess that's what I'm...
05:51...kind of...
05:52...trying to...
05:53...get to...
05:54...like has to perform...
05:55...if we separate...
05:55...the two parts I guess...
05:56...is what I'm striving to...
05:57...has the performance on the field...
05:59...been good enough...
06:00...if you take...
06:00...take away the good guy...
06:01...like if he's Aaron Rodgers...
06:02...that type of jerk...
06:04...of Aaron Rodgers...
06:05...or...
06:05...as people perceive Rodgers...
06:06...to be a jerk...
06:07...and he's playing like this...
06:08...how different is the conversation...
06:09...right now...
06:10...today about the quarterback...
06:11...I think the...
06:12...the big thing with CJ is...
06:13...this year...
06:15...what I...
06:16...what I liked...
06:17...was that...
06:18...he did...
06:19...some of the things...
06:20...where...
06:20...as a quarterback...
06:21...you have to...
06:22...suppress your ego...
06:23...a little bit...
06:24...you gotta understand...
06:25...that there's a time...
06:27...and a place...
06:28...to be aggressive...
06:29...in a game...
06:30...there's...
06:30...there's times...
06:31...where you gotta be sure...
06:32...you're just looking...
06:33...it's in the first half...
06:34...you're backed up...
06:35...in your own territory...
06:36...you're...
06:35...you're taking the check down...
06:36...you know...
06:37...you're taking the sack...
06:38...you're doing all those things...
06:39...and he did that...
06:40...I thought he did a great job...
06:41...of becoming a better...
06:42...game manager...
06:43...not calling him...
06:44...a game manager...
06:45...as...
06:45...as a quarterback...
06:46...but every quarterback...
06:47...has to manage the game...
06:48...and know when to take chances...
06:49...and when...
06:50...to play conservatively...
06:51...I thought he did a really...
06:52...good job with that...
06:53...that's why the playoffs...
06:54...were such...
06:55...was such a shock...
06:56...because he did the exact opposite...
06:58...that pick six...
06:59...it's the first...
07:00...half...
07:01...you've got a lead...
07:02...you're in your own territory...
07:03...it's inclement weather conditions...
07:05...so for him to just...
07:06...foist the ball up like that...
07:08...it was a genuine shock...
07:09...to me because...
07:10...he'd spent all season...
07:12...kind of...
07:13...tamping those elements...
07:14...out of his...
07:15...and...
07:16...that's...
07:17...that's the big...
07:18...curiosity of it...
07:19...so I think the way he...
07:20...operated during the season...
07:21...those are all the things...
07:22...you're actually looking for...
07:23...in a quarterback...
07:24...and...
07:25...and then it all went out the window...
07:26...in the playoffs...
07:27...that's the...
07:28...that's the part that I just...
07:29...don't know how to reconcile...
07:30...those two things...
07:31...yeah and I...
07:32...I think that's been...
07:33...the conversation...
07:34...for a lot of people as well...
07:35...I think I've talked about this...
07:36...with Reggie before...
07:37...just in general...
07:38...not even about Stroud...
07:39...but like the weight...
07:40...of the playoff games...
07:40...how many regular season games...
07:42...does a playoff game equal...
07:43...you could have...
07:44...16 or 17...
07:45...good regular season games...
07:46...then you have...
07:47...one bad playoff game...
07:48...does that...
07:49...one playoff game...
07:50...is that...
07:50...that's so important...
07:51...that it equals...
07:52...you know 17...
07:53...like what's the math on that...
07:54...and it just feels like...
07:55stroud yeah like it's uh it's also kind of the um recency bias where those were the two most recent
07:59games two most
08:00important games he played terribly and you kind of ignore anything else that happened this year
08:03i think that if
08:05i mean obviously there's a difference between a home performance and a road performance for
08:09any quarterback
08:10in the playoffs with cj i it's tempting to say that he hasn't been good on
08:15the road in the playoffs i think the problem is that
08:17his first year against the ravens in his set
08:20second year against the chiefs
08:21those were teams that were definitive better than nexans i think
08:25and and it was some of the weaknesses of the texans including his the the wide
08:30receiving core um in those first two years cj cj did some real
08:35really good things for the first three quarters of that chiefs game and that
08:38everything fell apart in the fourth quarter
08:40so i think that i i think people have painted with too broad a brush and saying oh he's no
08:45good on the road in the playoffs i think there's it's more nuanced than that um to go
08:50back to man the extreme version is peyton manning who in his first few years was a much
08:55better he was much better in the regular season than cj has been but he was awful in the play
09:00playoffs and that was for peyton manning's first six trips to the playoffs there was a book on pey
09:05peyton and it was that he sucked in the playoffs that's the if you're asking how long do you wait
09:10i mean i guess if cj performs really well in the regular season but then has a stinker in the
09:15playoffs again next year by the peyton manning dynamic it you'd still wait a few more
09:20years uh but i don't like the times have changed and i don't think the patience is there for it
09:24and that's that was
09:25that was part of my problem with the whole sam darnold comparisons this week and i know jonathan
09:29alexander had
09:30that article of like hey the sam darnold reclamation project can give texans fans hope but this is your
09:35seven or last year i think was year seven when he finally turned around in minnesota and we don't have
09:39pay
09:40patience nowadays like you said like we used to but like i don't know i don't know if you can wait
09:43this is going to be what
09:44you
09:45year four i don't know if we can wait till year seven to see if stroud finally
09:48gets to that sort of level
09:49if we're going uh with the the barometer of likability i'm going through past texans quarter
09:54backs and i'm going to rank them by likability
09:57ooh
09:58uh like with zero
09:59i have no clue about exactly how guys felt about him or anything but i'm guessing
10:02i want to say i think deshaun watson
10:04was probably way up there
10:06i might be wrong on that i'm just guessing
10:08i think matt schaub
10:09was really high up maybe a matt schaub
10:11matt schaub was probably especially before he got his list frank
10:14and everything
10:15and everything i would say probably deshaun watson
10:17and then matt schaub
10:19you
10:19Ryan Fitzpatrick was probably pretty far up there, and I don't, like,
10:24where would, of those, oh, Case Keenum, Case Keenum wasn't a bona fide, I,
10:29I think Case Keenum might have been the most popular in terms of guys liking him
10:33as a dude and everything, but he also.
10:34It wasn't the bona fide named starter from day one for entire seasons.
10:39But I'd say, see, CJ's in that upper caliber.
10:42He's way above, say, a Brock Osweiler.
10:44Or guys that might have been getting the side eye from players that.
10:49That, like, in the locker room at the time.
10:52Who would you put at the very bottom?
10:54Who do you think is the most unlikable quarterback in Texas?
10:59That's a mean thing to ask.
11:01I don't know, man.
11:02It's hard because most quarterbacks are pretty.
11:04Unlikable guys.
11:05Yeah.
11:06Don't tell me it's Sage Rosenfels.
11:07I love you.
11:08Even Rosweiler seems like he's.
11:09He's probably really likable,
11:11but I think just because he's a high-priced free agent that comes in.
11:14And is not good immediately.
11:17I think probably people probably started giving him the.
11:19The side eye.
11:20I don't know.
11:21I'll throw.
11:21I'll say A.J. McCarron.
11:23Oh, yeah.
11:24With his one.
11:24Start.
11:25Yeah.
11:25I think he was widely reviled in the locker room.
11:28I don't know.
11:29I can't.
11:29I can't find an unlikable guy on here.
11:31I know.
11:32I'm trying to think myself.
11:33I'm.
11:34And there's a pretty good list here.
11:36Yeah.
11:36I don't know.
11:37I played with Sage Rosenfels for.
11:39I think he was there the first.
11:42The first year.
11:43I was there for half a season with him.
11:44Before I was injured.
11:46I liked Sage.
11:46I don't know.
11:47That's a.
11:47Yeah.
11:48Sage was always my guy for some reason.
11:49I always took a liking to that quarterback.
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