Fest Track On Sirk TV Film Interview: THE BIG CHEESE [DOC NYC 2025 - New York, New York - Virtual] - Part II

2 days ago

Director Sara Joe Wolansky talks to Fest Track about connection, approach and capturing energy in regards to the World Premiere of their documentary: "The Big Cheese" playing the American Stories section of DOC NYC 2025 in New York, New York.

Transcript

00:00because it's about creating a language of understanding

00:29because, you know, obviously Adam does it

00:32and he has such a humor with the way he does it,

00:35but there's always an underlying thing with everybody,

00:38with Courtney, with Lilith,

00:39there's always sort of an underlying thing.

00:41I mean, Lilith talking about walking towards Mondial

00:44like Reservoir Dogs is just a beautiful thing,

00:48but you know how much it means to her.

00:49Can you talk about finding the humor

00:51within sort of this high-stakes drama world?

00:55Tim, I love you. I've got to go.

00:57All good. Thank you very much, Adam.

00:59Have a good one.

01:00Yep. So about finding humor,

01:02I mean, that was something that was very, very important to me

01:05when I was first coming up with this story

01:07because, or first like searching for this topic rather,

01:11because I feel like humor is like actually

01:14a really, really great way to get into

01:17some of these deeper emotional issues.

01:19Like if you can laugh with someone,

01:21you feel like you've really connected with them.

01:24So I feel like for this world,

01:26like, you know, you have this sort of competition

01:30with this man in a cow costume on stage and it's cheese.

01:34And I feel like cheese is inherently funny

01:36for reasons that are hard to even really articulate.

01:39I mean, I think for, you know, better or for worse.

01:42And so that was always something, you know,

01:45I was always kind of looking for those moments

01:47that were happening.

01:48And, you know, I, when I'm filming,

01:50I definitely am the kind of filmmaker

01:52who I'm really like, as my DP put it

01:55so delicately last night,

01:57I'm always waiting around for something to happen,

02:00sometimes to the point of awkwardness

02:02where we're just sort of like sitting there

02:05and nothing's happening.

02:06And, you know, I think for,

02:08to all the people in front of the cameras, credit,

02:11you know, I think that's a dynamic

02:12that can take a little bit to get used to.

02:15But then over time, you know,

02:17they get more used to, oh, the camera's just here.

02:19You know, Sarah Jo's just hanging out.

02:21She doesn't need us to perform.

02:23You know, we can just be.

02:25And so I feel like kind of building up that comfort

02:28and also kind of building up,

02:30or rather having that patience

02:32is actually a lot of what allows

02:34for those moments to come out.

02:35And I also test screen things a lot.

02:39I'm really into test screening.

02:41And so just sort of being conscious of like,

02:44what are the moments people are laughing?

02:45When are they not laughing?

02:47And why, you know,

02:48and that can change from cut to cut,

02:50even if the scene is exactly the same,

02:53the context of what surrounds it

02:54sometimes can make it, you know,

02:56more or less funny.

02:59Introduce the one, the only, Mr. Moon!

03:03If you would have told me that I'd be in the cheese business,

03:06I'd have told you you're out of mind.

03:08I worked for a bank.

03:10I have a PhD in German literature.

03:12Cheese gave me a direction.

03:13It gave me a passion.

03:15But people think the cheesemonger

03:16is another person behind a deli counter.

03:18Oh, so you sell cheese.

03:20That's funny.

03:21Like, what's funny about it?

03:22Knowing is the instinct now

03:23from your years of experience,

03:25knowing what you're looking for.

03:27Like the shot of when Sam's upstairs,

03:29you don't see him,

03:30but you hear Adam talking about,

03:33you know, he's doing, you know,

03:34and then you see him come downstairs.

03:36There's these little things

03:37where it's almost,

03:38some stuff happens off screen,

03:40and yet the impact is something you feel on screen.

03:42I thought that was great.

03:43Could you talk about that,

03:44looking at that,

03:45both the instinct of shooting,

03:46but then the sort of repercussions of editing

03:49and knowing how that works

03:50and how this was needed to work,

03:52especially the coda.

03:53The way you end it

03:54is specifically done in that way.

03:57Yeah, so I would say that actually,

03:59I mean, beyond test screening,

04:00when I'm in the moment,

04:01I mean, I'm pretty,

04:03I try to just be pretty attuned to myself

04:05as a person and not as a filmmaker.

04:08And the moments on, you know,

04:10on set or whatever we're calling

04:12being in real life with someone,

04:14the moments on set

04:16where I'm the most interested,

04:17I'm like, well, I'm a person.

04:19This feels like a moment

04:20where another person

04:22might be the most interested.

04:23And, you know,

04:23even when I'm thinking about things

04:26that I want to shoot,

04:27some of me is thinking about,

04:28well, what would I actually want to be there?

04:30What would be fun to film?

04:31Because if it's fun for me

04:32to be there and film,

04:33likely it's fun for someone else

04:35to witness as well.

04:36So the moments with Adam

04:38and his daughter specifically,

04:39I just remember those were moments

04:41that kind of stuck out to me post-shoot

04:43as just, you know,

04:44in the moment,

04:45oh, that felt good.

04:46And it's kind of like a gut thing,

04:48you know, of,

04:49oh, I was very invested

04:50in the shoot at that moment.

04:52And so these kind of little things

04:55stand out to you.

04:57And yeah, you know,

04:59it is a rhythm thing.

05:00I mean, it's funny what you say

05:02about the moment with Sam upstairs,

05:04because some of it is also

05:06the fun of documentary.

05:07Some of it's born out of necessity.

05:09As we were talking about earlier,

05:10you know, there's the challenge

05:11of trying to win a competition

05:13while also being in this film,

05:15which I'm sure, you know,

05:17is a little distracting.

05:19And I think that morning,

05:20Sam was like,

05:21I need to focus.

05:22And so he was sort of upstairs,

05:24I think, trying.

05:26So we made She's Mine

05:27a sport.

05:28And when they cut

05:29a perfect quarter pound,

05:30the audience goes crazy.

05:33It's fire!

05:34Yeah!

05:34This year,

05:36Team USA will go to compete

05:37in the Olympics of cheese,

05:39Mondial du Fromage in France.

05:42If you win,

05:43you are the world's best cheese monger.

05:45If you've gotten to this contest

05:48and can't taste the difference

05:49between a sheep-smoked cheese

05:50and a goat-smoked cheese,

05:51my friend,

05:52you're never going to get there in time.

05:53I will say that I had a lot,

05:55a lot of conversations with Adam

05:58before we started filming anything,

06:00kind of talking about,

06:01you know,

06:01both the relationship

06:03but also his personal story.

06:05And I will say one thing

06:06that made me feel

06:07very confident about it

06:08is Adam is very much

06:10an open book.

06:11Like, he, you know,

06:12this story of what he's gone through,

06:14like, this isn't just something

06:16that he was revealing

06:17for the camera the first time.

06:19Like, he goes on stage

06:20at CMI

06:21and will talk about it

06:23to, like, a crowd

06:24of hundreds of people

06:25at Brooklyn Steel as well.

06:26So I knew

06:27I was working with someone

06:29who wasn't going to be afraid

06:31to share their story,

06:33who kind of actually has

06:34a lot of experience

06:36sharing it very publicly already.

06:39But, yeah, I mean, you know,

06:41in navigating that relationship,

06:43you know,

06:43I always had total creative control

06:46over the project.

06:47And I knew that Adam

06:49was someone who also,

06:51quite honestly,

06:52had a good sense

06:53for story himself.

06:55And there were certain moments

06:57in the film that,

06:58you know,

06:59I, you know,

07:00I won't say what they were.

07:01I'll let people speculate.

07:02But there were a handful of moments

07:04where at first

07:04he was like,

07:05ah, like,

07:06don't put that in,

07:06you know.

07:07And then I put them in

07:08and he was like,

07:09ah, I can see how it's,

07:11like, a good moment.

07:14So, you know,

07:15I think he kind of,

07:17so I, you know,

07:18while he had those

07:19two different roles,

07:20I think I was also,

07:21I knew right away

07:21that I was dealing

07:22with someone who knew

07:23the power of a good story

07:25and that the power

07:26of an honest story

07:28was going to be,

07:30that an honest story

07:31was going to be

07:32much more impactful

07:32than just a puff piece

07:34or, you know,

07:36a story that made him

07:37look good at every turn.

07:39So did you know

07:40just within the New York scene

07:42about CMI,

07:44about these things

07:45that were going on?

07:46Is it because,

07:46because the thing is,

07:47I've operated in the festivals

07:49and I really,

07:50I never came across that.

07:51I came across him overseas,

07:53but how did that

07:54sort of come about?

07:56Because it's,

07:56it's very unusual,

07:57like his background,

07:58of course,

07:59you know,

07:59with his grandfather

08:00and his father,

08:02but can you talk about CMI

08:03because that with Mondial

08:05and everything,

08:05just the artistry,

08:07I mean,

08:07I think people would look

08:08at that as like,

08:09well,

08:09that's like an Olympic thing.

08:10It is.

08:11But can you talk

08:12about discovering it

08:13and how did you discover it?

08:15Yeah.

08:16So I hadn't known

08:17about CMI

08:18prior to this project.

08:19I mean,

08:19I kind of learned about it

08:20at the same time

08:21that I was meeting Adam.

08:23Again,

08:24it was just sort of

08:25from researching,

08:26you know,

08:26trying to research

08:27what kind of events

08:29were happening

08:30in the cheese world

08:32and kind of

08:32what were the big cheese things.

08:35And quite honestly,

08:35I was looking for something

08:37that felt like

08:38it had some stakes

08:39because,

08:41you know,

08:42I wanted to make a film

08:43about cheese,

08:44but I didn't want it

08:45to be just,

08:45you know,

08:46talking heads,

08:47waxing poetic about cheese.

08:48I wanted it to feel like,

08:50you know,

08:50something very real

08:52was going to unfold

08:53under our eyes.

08:54So I kind of found about,

08:55I found out about CMI

08:57just through my general research

08:58on the project

09:00and about the cheese community.

09:01There is this rivalry

09:03with U.S. and Europe.

09:04They don't think

09:05that we have the skills

09:07or the talents

09:07or even look at cheese

09:09the same way that they do.

09:10In other parts of the world,

09:11a cheesemonger

09:12is a career.

09:13But in the United States,

09:15we don't get the respect.

09:16Do you have an opinion

09:18on American cheesemongers?

09:20I don't know.

09:22Sociology.

09:23I mean,

09:23it's all about

09:24how we interact.

09:25I mean,

09:25your background,

09:26I believe it was Harvard.

09:27Is that correct?

09:28Yeah.

09:29Yeah.

09:29I mean,

09:30you know,

09:30those things,

09:31psychological,

09:32how you ask questions,

09:33how you draw people out,

09:35how you show people

09:36in different situations

09:37in different environments,

09:38like having Courtney

09:39in Sweden,

09:40the way that works

09:41is very specific

09:42in seeing her open up

09:44in certain ways.

09:45you know,

09:46and obviously

09:47what Sam with his mom

09:49and sort of that thing

09:50brings it.

09:51There's so many different things

09:52you do differently

09:53that a lot of other filmmakers

09:55might not do

09:55because they don't have

09:57sort of that

09:57academia behind them.

10:00Could you sort of

10:00talk about that

10:01and finding sort of

10:03that sort of

10:03thematic behind the scenes?

10:05I mean,

10:06I would say

10:07even beyond

10:08my academic background,

10:09I actually,

10:10when I was in college

10:12and for a few years beyond,

10:13I actually used to work

10:14as like a volunteer

10:15crisis counselor.

10:17And so I learned

10:18a lot about,

10:19I learned about a lot

10:21about how to listen

10:22through that capacity

10:23because,

10:25and I'd say the key thing

10:27and the key thing

10:28which I sort of alluded

10:29to before

10:30in,

10:31you know,

10:32letting,

10:33kind of waiting around

10:33for moments

10:34is I feel like

10:36when I'm doing an interview,

10:37it's not quite,

10:38I feel like a lot of people

10:39want to make it

10:40as conversation as possible

10:42and I still do that

10:43but I would say

10:43it's still not quite

10:44a normal conversation,

10:46right?

10:47Like normally

10:47there's not a camera

10:49totally pointed

10:50at one person

10:51and I think one thing

10:53that's really important

10:54for me

10:55and my process

10:56in interviewing

10:57is I leave

10:58a lot of silences

10:59because I find

11:02that sometimes,

11:03you know,

11:03the questions asked,

11:05the person feels pressure

11:06to just say something

11:07immediately.

11:08It's sort of

11:09often the first thought

11:10that comes to their head.

11:11It's not always

11:12the best thought

11:13that comes to their head

11:14so I feel like

11:15often when I'm

11:16interviewing people

11:17I'll leave,

11:19I'll kind of wait

11:19until it almost

11:21gets a little bit

11:21awkward sometimes

11:22for them to finish

11:24answering their question

11:25because I find

11:26that sometimes people

11:27speak

11:28and then

11:28there's a moment

11:29of silence

11:30and then they're like,

11:31hmm,

11:31I actually had

11:32this other thing

11:32I was interested

11:34in saying

11:34in those few seconds

11:36so I feel like

11:37having that patience

11:39of, you know,

11:40being willing to feel

11:42a little bit awkward

11:42honestly about

11:44in a normal conversation

11:45the second someone finishes

11:46you want to say something

11:47and kind of

11:48letting it be

11:50a little bit awkward

11:51I feel like

11:51is something

11:53that I,

11:55you know,

11:55both from my experience

11:57through that capacity

11:58as a crisis counselor

11:59where that was

12:00a big part too

12:01of not needing

12:02to immediately chime in

12:03with a follow-up

12:04but sort of letting

12:05people process

12:06their thoughts aloud

12:07is something that I also

12:09bring to my filmmaking.

12:10Winning would mean

12:11oh crap,

12:12the Americans,

12:12they know what they're doing.

12:14That's so good.

12:15This is a big year.

12:16This has definitely

12:17pushed them farther

12:18than they've ever been pushed

12:20in their career.

12:21And I'm just

12:22really nervous.

12:23I think it's a stress

12:24right now.

12:24But also smaller rigs help.

12:26I remember when we were

12:27doing this back

12:27in the late 80s,

12:29early 90s,

12:30you know,

12:30it's harder

12:31with those huge cameras

12:32to do it.

12:33Totally.

12:33But now you can go through

12:34I think that sort of

12:35allows sort of

12:36the deconstruction

12:37if you will

12:38of that command.

12:39Do you find that?

12:40Because people are less...

12:42Oh yeah.

12:43I mean,

12:43I feel like

12:44it depends on the person.

12:46I feel like

12:46there's certain people

12:47who respond very well

12:49to there's a big setup

12:51and there's all these

12:51lights in their face.

12:52I'd say the majority

12:53of people

12:54who aren't necessarily

12:55media trained

12:56or whatnot,

12:57you know,

12:58it can be very intimidating

12:59and I don't blame them.

13:00And so I'd say

13:02another thing

13:02is that when I plan

13:03my interviews,

13:05you know,

13:05the first 15 minutes

13:07are almost always

13:08just complete garbage.

13:10Like I'm literally

13:11just trying to get them

13:12to feel comfortable

13:13and I'm just

13:14in my head,

13:15I'm like,

13:15this goes straight

13:16in the trash can,

13:17you know.

13:18But,

13:19and so that's kind of

13:20part of it too,

13:21just sort of

13:22trying to put myself

13:23in their shoes.

13:24It's this very sort

13:25of intimidating setup.

13:27I'm like,

13:27let me shine

13:27a bunch of lights

13:28at you

13:29and ask you

13:29about these

13:30incredibly personable

13:32and vulnerable things

13:33when I'm not

13:34necessarily sharing

13:35that myself,

13:36you know.

13:37And so,

13:38yeah,

13:38that's definitely

13:39something I think

13:40about as well.

13:41Like,

13:41can we keep the crew

13:43to just the size

13:44it needs to be?

13:45Because the bigger

13:46the crew gets,

13:46maybe,

13:47you know,

13:47there's some

13:49improvement in appearance

13:51there,

13:51we're able to move

13:52a little bit quicker

13:53maybe,

13:53but it can sometimes

13:54come at the cost

13:55of losing a little bit

13:56of that intimacy.

13:58So,

13:58but,

13:58you know,

13:58it depends on the situation.

14:00There are obviously

14:00sometimes situations

14:01where you do need

14:02a bigger crew

14:03and the situation

14:04does call for that.

14:05But I think

14:06for these super

14:07intimate things,

14:09I feel like

14:10there's an inverse

14:10relationship between

14:11the amount of crew

14:13you have

14:13and the amount

14:14of garbage time

14:15at the beginning

14:16you have to have

14:17to,

14:17you know,

14:18get people to feel

14:19comfortable on camera.

14:21And a second to finish.

14:22Hurry up, please.

14:23I do it as a redemption.

14:25I want to be the one.

14:26The two people

14:27who becomes

14:28Team USA tomorrow

14:29are who can actually

14:31win this mother.

14:32Cheese is a passionate food.

14:34Cheese does that to you,

14:35doesn't it?

14:36This is one of the most

14:37amazing,

14:38important moments

14:39in their life.

14:39How does anyone

14:40respond to that pressure?

14:45I want to be the one.

14:47I want to be the one.

14:48I want to be the one.

14:49I want to be the one.

14:50I want to be the one.

14:51I want to be the one.

14:52I want to be the one.

14:53I want to be the one.

14:54I want to be the one.

14:55I want to be the one.

14:56I want to be the one.

14:57I want to be the one.

14:58I want to be the one.

14:59I want to be the one.

15:00I want to be the one.

15:01I want to be the one.

15:02I want to be the one.

15:03I want to be the one.

15:04I want to be the one.

15:05I want to be the one.

15:06I want to be the one.

Fest Track On Sirk TV Film Interview: THE BIG CHEESE [DOC NYC 2025 - New York, New York - Virtual] - Part II

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