00:00The
00:27the blending of like uh obviously the idea of psychedelics and perception it's perspective
00:32back in that time and then obviously downtown you had warhol doing different things too um
00:38you know it's interesting looking at the idea of perspective and perception you know with you know
00:44because it was all drag queens and then you had the three women and then you know but then you
00:49had johansson you had all these people it just seemed like a really artistic cauldron of being
00:55of the idea i mean when i was making the film i was always thinking about this idea of mourning
01:01the past but also trying to think about the period with with joy i mean uh as a very influential
01:09moment for him because he was very young when he when he was there doing this photograph he never
01:14tells that but you can guess it because well i mean it was the 60s and a lot of time passed from from
01:22that period um but i was also trying to capture as i said the the idea of an archive of a life
01:29the archive of a life i mean his archive he he looking at his work as a part of his work because
01:37he has other other other things he did but yes the movie i i think that at some point i begin i began to
01:46know that the movie was trying to move between two times i mean it was like two layers working
01:52together the idea of uh trying to recall or trying to retell that past but also uh trying to
02:01trying to think about the trying to think about time trying to think about losses uh material losses and
02:11and and and and and and and this idea of the ghost that appears and and all i mean i i was thinking
02:18about uh the theater as a ghostly uh thing um in some point haunchy that that haunts the movie i don't
02:31know how to explain it but but the archives tell i open opens up another time and another space and and
02:38there were these ghosts i mean like the idea of lat lam as a ghost i i was always thinking about this
02:43idea when we were editing the movie with manuel embalse which is the the editor we were thinking
02:48about this idea of entering the archives and for example well you get to hear the voice of charles and
02:57we work a lot in this in sound design of the of of the whole of the piece because we were thinking
03:02this about like a trip you know yeah so well i i wanted to think the movie in that way not only
03:10about someone showing his archive of of of his memories but uh these memories are uh related with
03:19uh affections and it are related with um yes with with affection and with mourning and with losses
03:26and it is that my encounter with the theater ridiculous was almost like an accident and it was a
03:38I lived there in the 90 to 96, before gentrification happened.
04:08And there was a certain sound to the city.
04:12And I talked to people in the 70s, there was a certain sound to the city, that if you go to New York City now, it doesn't sound the same.
04:23And that's interesting about life, but as art, because being an artist, looking at an artist, looking at a city, and you're back in the city, and you're premiering at Doc NYC in the city.
04:37Could you talk about sort of that dichotomy, that sort of irony?
04:42Okay, yes, it's a very nice and good question.
04:46I mean, well, I've only been twice in New York.
04:50I mean, this is my second time, and now I'm in New York because we premiered the film yesterday.
04:55I think at some point, this idea of New York was an imaginary idea of that era, of that spirit.
05:04I mean, I spoke a lot with Leandro about the free spirit of that age.
05:10He also said that when he left the city, the city was, I mean, he came here in the 60s, and he left in the 2006, 2006, I'm sorry.
05:22Anyway, so he told me that the city was very different.
05:28I mean, the city had changed a lot.
05:30The city's cape, I mean, he used to live in a building full of artists.
05:36He lived near this important Brazilian artist, which is Elio Tisica.
05:41He knew people.
05:43And that was the Lower East Side, right?
05:44Was that the Lower East Side?
05:45I think in the Lower East Side, yes.
05:48So he used to go to, I don't know, to a different place of Jack Smith.
05:53He used to be near the factory of St. Mark's Church, of La Mama.
05:57I mean, glorious spaces that I didn't get to know, but I knew it because of watching films or reading things.
06:04I mean, so you get to know this ideal city, but through art.
06:10So, yes, it's a nice and interesting situation that the movie is showing now.
06:19Well, but I've never lived here.
06:24I'm now living in L.A., which is quite different from New York.
06:27Yes, very much so, yeah.
06:28It's like a B-side of the city.
06:31Yeah, that's a great way to put it.
06:33Interview with David Johansson, September 29, 2002.
06:57After the projection, there was a man.
07:07I mean, I think he was in his 80s, 70s, 80s, that asked a question.
07:14And he told, and after the screening, we spoke a little bit.
07:19He went to some shows of Charles Ladlam.
07:24He went to some place to see some place.
07:26He saw Charles Ladlam.
07:27He told me that he was very happy to see the movie because it captured some of the spirits of this place.
07:39And I was very happy because he told me that he was, I don't know, he was happy because there was a movie speaking about the past and the phenomenon of the theater of the ridiculous.
07:51There was another person that is Joey Jeffries, who is a specialist in drag art.
07:58I knew him when I was doing the research in 2019.
08:02And he was also very happy.
08:04And he was with a friend that is trying to research Ladlam work related to puppetry.
08:12So I think there was a, I sometimes think that in every screening, there is an audience in which you get to think that the movie is for them.
08:26I don't know how to explain it, but the movie was premiered in Greece.
08:30And in Greece, there was also these people that were interested in theater and in queer culture.
08:38So it's universal in certain ways.
08:40Yes, and for example, in Greece, I get to know, I get to know a journalist that lived in New York.
08:50And he was also very, I don't know, he was happy because of the movie.
08:56And he was happy because he was remembering that young years when he was here.
09:01So I think, well, I think it was a very special night.
09:05And I think it was a very special audience because, as I said, it was like, I was, I mean, I was nervous because I don't know what kind of things they will note.
09:19I mean, I was showing images that are, for example, for me, the images of New York in the 70s are amazing, but I don't know what kind of thing will they think about that?
09:33Because perhaps they say, well, I see this every time, I see this every time, I don't know, it's like a normal for me to see the sky, the sky crapper.
09:41And I think it's like a little person.
09:42I mean, the first person from my group today is 1980.
09:46Good night, ladies.
09:48Good night.
09:50Everybody's going.
09:51We'll see you.
09:52The exuberance of the theater is a kind of crater
10:03in which I see myself in a moment
10:08and in which eventually I know that I have to leave.
10:22I'll see you next time.
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