- 6 weeks ago
As Delhi-NCR battles severe air pollution, India Today's special investigation, Operation Gas Chamber, has exposed how brazenly GRAP-4 norms are being flouted just kilometres from the Supreme Court under the cover of darkness.
Category
🗞
NewsTranscript
00:00India today unmasks pollution villains.
00:13Brazen violations in choked Delhi.
00:23Grab four, curbs on papers, shame on ground.
00:30Pre-run for polluting trucks, no PUC.
00:49Operation Gas Chamber Delhi.
00:53India Today's Special Investigation.
01:00I'm Sorul Mehrotra Kapoor, this is 5 Live.
01:11Today on the programme, we've got an investigation on pollution for you.
01:15It's Operation Pollution.
01:16We went out to test all the claims that the government seems to be making.
01:21That we've put in restrictions on BS6 vehicles, no PUC, no fuel.
01:27Is that really being implemented?
01:29Our reporters and the SIT team went out to check and the answers there, what it reveals, is quite shocking.
01:36Apart from that, it was the second last day of the Parliament.
01:40But yes, no debate on pollution yet.
01:45The Parliament sat for a very short duration.
01:48The passage of the bill happened and there you go, it was adjourned.
01:51No time to discuss pollution.
01:53Now we have just one day left.
01:55At a time when this winter session should have been a pollution session.
01:59Not a single minute denoted or sort of, you know, taken out for that.
02:04All that and more on the programme, first up, the headlines at this hour.
02:11Jiramji bill passed in Lok Sabha, mid ruckus.
02:14Opposition MPs toured bill through a Treasury bench.
02:16Jiramji bill faces Raj Sabha test.
02:19Today, eight hours have been allotted.
02:26After the bill was passed in the lower house,
02:27Union Minister Shivraj Singh then slammed the opposition for their conduct
02:31and accused opposition of turning democracy into Gunda Raj.
02:38No pollution debate in Parliament amid ruckus.
02:40Unruly opposition forces suspension of the House.
02:43Speaker cancels pollution debate, slams the opposition.
02:48Meanwhile, down south, Vijay tore into DMK in his erode rally,
02:54says DMK is the evil force.
02:56TVK, a clean force, invokes again the periyar in his address.
03:04The Karnataka Legislative Assembly today passed the hate speech
03:07in the Hate Crime Prevention Bill 2025 amid strong protests by the opposition,
03:11leading to repeated disruptions in the House.
03:14And leader of the opposition, Arashok, opposed the bill,
03:16calling it an attack on freedom of expression.
03:18Once again, the spotlight is on the power tussle in Karnataka.
03:24More than 30 seers from Lingayat, backward classes and Dalit mats held a crucial meeting
03:31in Tumukuru, demanding the Home Minister, Dr. G. Parameshwara,
03:36be appointed as the Chief Minister.
03:37Meanwhile, the Chief Minister, Siddharamaya, has reiterated that his father will remain.
03:42See ya.
03:47Chaos Be Free marred a promotional event in Hyderabad as actress Nidhi Agarwal was
03:51mobbed by fans during the song launch of her upcoming film, The Raja Sahib,
03:56with Prabhas visuals from the spot show.
03:59Actress being jostled amidst the crowd.
04:02Very, very uncomfortable and what an unruly crowd.
04:06A chilling suitcase murder has shocked Delhi NCR, where a woman there was strangled and her body
04:15stuffed into a suitcase after a rent dispute. The accused tenant tried to flee, but was arrested.
04:26Supreme Court today said that large parts of India still struggles to
04:30sort of assess and yet have access to basic drinking water,
04:34as it refuses to hear a petition challenging the standards for package drinking water in the country,
04:39calling it luxury litigation. The bench said that it was an urban phobia,
04:44nothing that people in rural areas largely depend on is ground water.
04:51And finally, the former Indian Premier League Chairman Lalit Modi hosted a glitzy
04:56pre-birthday celebration in London for fugitive businessman Vijay Malia, drawing a clutch of high-profile
05:03names to his sort of grave square residents. The guest list included the Biacon founder,
05:10Kiran Majundar Shah, actor Idris Ilba and fashion designer, Manu Virajko.
05:24Not long ago, the idea that Delhi could turn into a gas chamber was dismissed as dark humor. We laughed
05:33about it, but today, the jokes feel uncomfortably close to the truth. People in the national capital are
05:39breathing air that is officially classified as hazardous. AQI levels are soaring, flights are
05:45sporting events and being cancelled. Altogether, clinics and hospitals are reporting a surge in
05:51patients with breathing trouble, burning ice, chest tightness. Those who can afford it are leaving the
05:58city, heading to the hills in search of clean air. For millions of others, there is simply no escape.
06:04How can you escape the air? Not even global icons are immune. Lionel Messi's visit renewed focus on Delhi's air,
06:13where stepping outdoor can be equivalent to smoking multiple cigarettes there. Before him,
06:17the American entrepreneur, sort of Brian Johnson, walked out midway from one of the podcasts,
06:23unable to tolerate the toxic air, even with air purifiers running indoors. Now, on paper, at the moment,
06:30the strictest anti-pollution curve that is grabbed for is in force. On the ground, construction continues,
06:38violations are visible, enforcement appears uneven at max, just not enough. Even the Supreme Court has
06:48repeatedly flagged the failure of governance. Yet the air remains absolutely poisonous. Public frustration
06:55is mounting. People want answers. They want action. Inside Parliament, however, the House sat long enough
07:03to pass the bill that they wanted and then it was dismissed. Tomorrow is the last day of the winter
07:09session, which should ideally have been, what I think, a pollution session. But no debates, no statements,
07:19no plan yet. The government behaves as if all is well, when actually all is hell in Delhi right now.
07:31So that's the reality that we live with. But like we said, it's not a commentary piece that we've got
07:37for you over here. We actually went down on the streets of the national capital to figure out
07:43what exactly is the status of implementation of GRAP4. GRAP4, remember, which is said to be the strictest
07:50way in which we can curb and bring down the air pollution levels. It restricts construction activities.
07:56It also restricts certain kind of vehicles entering, also asks people to work from home, schools to be shut.
08:04But is that implementation really happening? GRAP4 norms are officially enforced in Delhi.
08:10The toughest set of any anti-pollution measures on paper. But the real question that we are raising
08:16today is, is it really being followed? On the ground, what we are seeing tells a very different
08:22story. Across the city, commuters are struggling to access fuel. Traffic congestion has actually worsened
08:29at multiple choke points and the confusion sort of reigns over what is allowed, what isn't, nobody knows.
08:36The government insists that enforcement is strict and uniform. GRAP4 rules are being implemented
08:42without exception. But India today did the test. Our SIT team went across the national capital to check
08:50the reality on the streets, not the files. And what we found raises serious questions. Watch for yourself.
08:58These visuals are not just disturbing, they are proof of the open betrayal of Delhi. Captured just kilometers from the Supreme Court, they expose who is
09:16poisoning Delhi's air under the cover of darkness. When India today hit the ground at night to check the reality of GRAP4, the truth was shocking.
09:34In the heart of New Delhi, government orders were treated like scrap paper. A cement mixer, which is banned under GRAP4, was found to be freely roaming in Sarojini Nagar.
09:48Inside the site, machines were running, lights were on, R&C plants were operational, pumping dust and poison into Delhi's air.
10:07But the moment our cameras appeared, workers fled, machines were shut down and lights went off instantly.
10:13And the other people were forced to be able to get the same.
10:18The people who are driving are driving, they are driving.
10:21The cement is now a ban in Delhi.
10:23Yes, they say, let's take it here and sit here.
10:25Where are you from?
10:26From the Daadari.
10:27From Daadari? In Delhi, did someone stop?
10:30No, no, no. They say, let's take it here and stop.
10:33Where are you going to the construction work?
10:35No, sir.
10:37How is this?
10:38No work is not going to be done.
10:39How is this truck coming?
10:40This is my little one of them.
10:42As we reached here on the construction site, people were looking for us to run away.
10:52All people had closed the light here, and all the people were running away from the whole side.
11:01Like there was no one at night working here.
11:05We had put a cement truck in here, and we came back to this site.
11:16There was a graph 4 in Delhi, but it was also working on these sites.
11:22Under the government's office, this is the new Delhi area.
11:26Where are we from?
11:28We were working here.
11:29We were working here.
11:30Yes, we were working here.
11:32The question is simple.
11:42Who allowed work during graph 4, and who looked away?
11:46At another site nearby, tractors ferried rubble, JCVs operated,
11:51trucks hid the number plates in a clear attempt to erase identity.
11:55Even worse, guards were burning wood to keep form, adding smoke to an already toxic night.
12:03Where are you going?
12:04We are working here.
12:06How did the plant run out of the night?
12:08Yes sir.
12:09How did the plant run out of the night?
12:10Yes sir.
12:11How did the plant run out of the night?
12:12The plant run out of the night.
12:13The guards didn't give you a heater?
12:14I didn't get it.
12:15Why?
12:16I didn't get it.
12:17When are you working here at night?
12:19I didn't get it.
12:20The company doesn't give you a heater?
12:23The company doesn't give you a heater.
12:26We can see on the side of the night.
12:28What is the name of the pollution?
12:31In addition to that, there is a work in this side.
12:37And no one doesn't listen to me.
12:39We have seen the tractor and trolley shift the road.
12:46As you can see, this is also a Varenda construction site.
12:49This is not just one site.
13:02From Sarojini Nagar to Netaji Nagar, the same story repeats.
13:06Behind tall sheets, construction continued in secrecy.
13:12The violations didn't stop there.
13:14At midnight at the Delhi-Noida border, police checks appeared to be strict.
13:23Only BS-6 and CNG vehicles were allowed.
13:26Construction material was completely banned.
13:29On paper, enforcement looked airtight.
13:32But the ground reality told a different story.
13:35Despite the ban, BS-4 trucks were found to be freely moving inside Delhi.
13:39Similar free runs for polluting trucks were seen at Ames and Shadar.
13:58So the question isn't just about violation.
14:01Can this happen without criminal collusion?
14:03With Nitin Jain and video journalist Emmanuel, Bureau Report, India Today.
14:08We, in fact, took that investigation to Delhi's Environment Minister and Mr. Majinder Sirsa.
14:26He's appeared on this program earlier as well.
14:28And he said that he's shocked at what he's seeing in the investigation over there.
14:34We'll take strict action is what he's seeing against the culprits as well.
14:38But how exactly will that take place?
14:41Let me cut across now to, in fact...
14:50All right, I'm told that we've got a live reaction coming in.
14:55Joining me next is DK Gupta, additional CP traffic.
15:15He joins us on the phone line.
15:18Mr. Gupta, thank you so much for speaking with us here at India Today.
15:21I just want to understand from you, we just played out an investigation done by our colleagues here at India Today and ACHTAK, the SIT team.
15:29And they are seeing violations of GRAP 4 happen at different levels.
15:36From construction sites to, you know, burning that is happening to PUC norms not there.
15:43How exactly do you see that?
15:47Ma'am, as per the orders of GRAP 4 has been announced, we have deployed staff at all the borders.
15:55And our staff is deployed round the clock and they are checking and we are trying to that all GRAP 4 norms should be properly followed.
16:03And any workers violating the traffic will be prosecuted.
16:08For that, we will deploy the internal staff inside Delhi also.
16:12And we are deployed on the PACAS vans or PCRs also.
16:16Our motorcycles are also patrolling.
16:18Our officers, they are in the field.
16:20They are trying to ensure that GRAP 4 norms should be fully complied.
16:23And any violation noticed will be prosecuted.
16:28Mr. Kumar, what we are seeing in our investigation is very, very clear.
16:33It's a blatant violation.
16:35It took one night of just roaming around the streets of Delhi for our reporters to figure out massive violations.
16:41This should have idly been done by the police.
16:42See, as I have told you, our staff has been fully deployed round the clock and we are watching, keeping watch on every violation noticed in any part of Delhi.
16:59And we are monitoring from the highest level it has been monitored.
17:03So we are trying our best that no violation should be done and any violation if noticed will be prosecuted.
17:08Sir, but there seems to be massive slips happening all over, from construction sites, to vehicles which should not be allowed, to POCs missing, to burning that is taking place, to construction happening in the middle of the night with lights switched off.
17:26How can this be escaping Delhi police?
17:27No, we are any complaint which we are receiving and we are on the totally alert mode and we will be taking action and any complaint we receive, we are actively acting on that thing and we are taking action.
17:42All right, we leave it there, additional commissioner traffic there, Dinesh Kumar giving us, giving us assurances, I am not sure how much of it is actually going to translate into, you know, what's happening on the ground but let's go back to that breaking that came to us a little while ago.
18:00Reactions to that India Today investigations now coming in from the political class as well.
18:07This time from the Delhi's environment minister, Mr. Majinder Singh Sirsa.
18:11He said that they will take strict action against the culprits.
18:15Well, that's unexpected lines, but how was this even allowed in the first place?
18:20Let's listen in to the minister.
18:22The politicians are saying we will take action.
18:47Cops are saying we will also ensure it's all done.
18:50But what exactly is happening on the round?
18:52Let's get a reality check.
18:53My colleague Milana Sharma joins us now for the very latest.
18:56Milana, is it on expected lines?
18:58Should we even be shocked at what's happening?
19:01Like these flouting of rules, even with Grab 3 and Grab 2 we saw were happening earlier on.
19:07Grab 4 has not changed things at all.
19:10One night of cameras going around and reporters of Ajitak in India Today going out on the streets.
19:16We were able to find at least six to seven violations.
19:19The cops and the politicians can't even see one.
19:23Well, the implementation is where the onus keeps shifting from one person to the other.
19:30The traffic police commissioner is responsible to deploy police everywhere,
19:35but the police is supposed to go and check and catch these culprits.
19:38And why a Suomoto action is not taken?
19:41Because I heard the gentleman and he said when a complaint will come to us, we will take action.
19:46Why should a citizen then go forward and lodge a complaint, find out something like this and then lodge a complaint?
19:52Why can't you take Suomoto action?
19:54Similarly, in a protocol that has been listed, we usually complain to the CAQM if we see a violation.
20:00The SIT team took one day to do this fantastic investigation showing internal source of pollution,
20:06which is construction and completely banned under Grab 4 is happening in the dead of the night.
20:11And with collusion perhaps from the authorities because the area in charge,
20:17it's impossible that he won't know that such a construction has happened.
20:20There are, you know, cement mixers and etc. that are being allowed inside the borders of Delhi,
20:26which is completely banned. There are police banning the borders.
20:29So certainly the internal source of pollution that we can contain easily is not being done,
20:35even despite the deployment of authorities, even despite the Supreme Court saying, you know, various things,
20:42as well as the CAQM activation on ground.
20:45And that is why the AQI levels of Delhi remains in the severe to very severe to very...
20:55Alright, Milan there pointing out all those violations that should have been checked beforehand by the police
21:02but completely missed.
21:04What is it lacking? Is it lacking political will? Is it lacking in intentions?
21:09What exactly is the case here?
21:11But talking about political will, let's shift the story and take it to Parliament.
21:14It is the winter session, the second last day of the winter session where it should have been a pollution session,
21:20but not a single minute has been taken out to discuss pollution.
21:24Today, the government in fact had said that we will discuss pollution, but after passing off just one bill,
21:31it was then the day's session was called off.
21:35So is the intention again there missing?
21:38Ashwarya Paliwal, my colleague joining us for the very latest.
21:41Ashwarya, we've been discussing the issue of pollution throughout this entire winter session.
21:46We've come to the lag end now.
21:48Last day left tomorrow.
21:50What is the hope that this will even come up for discussion on the last day of the winter session,
21:58which, like I said, should idly have been a pollution session dedicated to finding solutions?
22:04Well, you know, you will not be happy with my answer, but I doubt, I highly doubt that, you know, we will have a discussion on pollution,
22:10because if, you know, the government really wanted to do it, then today was a good time,
22:14because we did see how the Parliament session was on till almost 2 a.m.
22:18And what we were told, we were all on the ground last night, that there will be at least four hours under Rule 193,
22:23that we will have the discussion.
22:25And Bhupendra, who's the environmental minister, he will tell the floor of the Parliament and the country at large
22:30what exactly the government is looking at doing.
22:32Let me tell you, I met almost all those MPs who were supposed to speak, and they all had folders in their hands.
22:37They all had come prepared.
22:39Even Priyanka Gandhi-Wadra was prepared with regards to what she wanted to say.
22:43Aswari Souraj, from the BJP, who's also an MP from the National Capital, she also was prepared.
22:48But then we suddenly saw, as soon as the VBG Ramji bill was passed, the House was adjourned till about 11 a.m.
22:54Tomorrow, tomorrow is the last day, Sonal, and I doubt it.
22:58We have not got any information from the BJP or from the Lok Sabha so far that there will be a discussion.
23:03I highly doubt that in this session we will see a discussion on the burning issue of pollution.
23:07Sonal.
23:08All right.
23:09That's just really, really terrible, isn't it, Ashwarya?
23:12That the entire time, even after promising, they have not managed to sort of take out that time.
23:16In the middle of that, Ahmadi Party, you see pictures over there, posting a sort of skid on the ground,
23:22trying to raise the issue of pollution.
23:24When they were in power, they also passed the buck.
23:26This government is also passing the buck back at the Ahmadi Party, saying this is the problem they have inherited.
23:31Of course you've inherited this problem.
23:33This is the problem all of us have inherited.
23:35You are the government in power.
23:37We've got to get some, you know, answers here, get us the solutions here, but clearly we are not hearing any of it.
23:43You know, we will also be joined in some time now with all the parliamentarians.
23:50We reached out to them to try and understand what exactly keeps them away.
23:54Do they not understand the issue of pollution?
23:56Or is it a problem of not understanding answers here?
24:00Is there no intent or is there no understanding?
24:03What exactly is wrong?
24:05Let's try and see if we've got those parliamentarians up as well.
24:08So, Shmita Dev, the parliamentarian from TMC.
24:38The screen right now on one side, you see the parliament behaving as if all is well.
24:51And outside those doors of the parliament, you see the hell that we all live with in the northern part of the country.
24:59At least 60% of the country faces bad air.
25:03The most impacted are in metros, including that of the national capital.
25:09But clearly that's not been enough.
25:12A cricket match got postponed.
25:15There have been several concerts by singers which have been gotten postponed.
25:21Including Rekha Bharadwaj, including that of Palash Sen.
25:26Also, there have been flights that are delayed.
25:31Even the prime minister's flight was delayed, all thanks to the smog.
25:34People are lining up the hospitals to try and understand and get some help.
25:41But our MPs, well, all is well for them.
25:46They seem to be in a clean air cocoon inside parliament, inside their homes.
25:51They can afford the air purifiers.
25:54Perhaps the reason why they simply do not think it's important enough to address it now.
26:11Piyush Mishra joins us for the very latest now.
26:31Piyush, take us through what has been your understanding of this entire parliament session simply not caring about pollution.
26:39Well, there's no doubt that parliamentarians do not care about the health of people of the country.
26:45And that's why we did not see any kind of debate taking place.
26:48Yes, there were some from the opposition parties who wanted to have a discussion on this.
26:52And we also saw as to how the protest was taken out by the opposition MPs.
26:56But the debate on this could not take place.
26:59There are different versions that are now coming out from BJP MPs, NDA MPs, and also from India Bloc and Congress MPs.
27:07What is happening, Sonal, is that when we asked from BJP MPs as to why today, when the debate on pollution was scheduled to take place, why it could not take place?
27:15Then they blame our opposition MPs.
27:18They say that because the opposition created ruckus, the debate could not happen.
27:23And when we asked from the opposition MPs as to why they did not let the parliament to function smoothly, then they say that government intention somewhere suggests that it does not want to have any kind of discussion on pollution.
27:35And so blame game continues, but at the end of the day, it's the people of not only Delhi, but across the NCR region and largely in the northern part of the country who are at the receiving end because there is no solution which the government is looking forward to provide to the people of the country.
27:53You're right. You're right, Piyush. But, you know, help us understand what happened in parliament today.
27:59We thought that the government was embarrassed after the messy event, when Rekha Gupta Hai Hai chants, AQI AQI chants, boos were heard.
28:10And that's when they really sort of shook them into action. We saw Grap 4 implemented the next day. Then we saw the match getting cancelled in Lucknow.
28:19In Lucknow, imagine, not even Delhi, where AQI was so poor that they had to cancel the match. We've got, you know, several concerts getting cancelled in Delhi as well.
28:28This used to be the best time of the year to be in Delhi, right? And you see, you know, time after time that we have now just been forced to stay indoors.
28:37But, you know, and that's when after all of that, the government said, OK, let's discuss it on the floor of the house. But what happened today? Why couldn't this be taken up?
28:47Well, there's no doubt that it's a huge embarrassment for multiple state governments, be it about Delhi government or UP government or about certainly itself for the central government.
28:57But what happened today? Let us tell the viewers what transpired in parliament. Remember that Shivarad Singh Chohan, the Union Minister for Agriculture and Rural Development, he was speaking on the reply on the Ramji bill.
29:11And while he was replying after that, we saw when he started speaking, various opposition MPs came in the well and they started raising slogans, saying Mahatma Gandhi ka apman nahi sahega in the sun, because they were of the view that the government, the central government is disrespecting the legacy of Mahatma Gandhi.
29:30It continued for around half an hour or so, where they continued to raise slogans. They were there in the well. But Shivarad Singh Chohan continued to speak. While he was speaking, we also saw a few MPs tore some papers and they, you know, threw these papers there in the well of the house towards the Treasury bench. And that really created a lot of fracas.
29:54But we were also expecting media persons sitting in our media room that soon after the reply of Shivarad Singh Chohan, there will be discussion on the pollution. But due to continuous ruckus and the kind of sloganing which was taking place in Lok Sabha, Om Bilal, Lok Sabha Speaker, he was forced to adjourn the house till tomorrow because the house was not at all in order.
30:18Remember that the government was very much of the view that, OK, we are ready to have a discussion under Rule 193, where the discussion was all set to be initiated by Prenka Gandhi.
30:28Prenka Gandhi and this basic discussion basically was, you know, taking place on the request of three MPs from different political parties, Prenka Gandhi, Kanimoyi and Bansur Saraj, they are from three different political parties.
30:40And Prenka Gandhi was to speak in the initial time of our discussion, but that did not happen because of the continuous ruckus and following which we saw house getting adjourned for the entire day.
30:53All right, we should leave it there for the moment. Thank you so much for joining us.
30:56All right, let's take this discussion forward with the politicians now. Joining us next is Dr. Anil Gupta. He is an MLA for Delhi BJP. He seems to be outside on the streets of the capital right now.
31:13Dr. Gupta, how are you doing?
31:20Today it is not bad, as it was there day before yesterday. Because of the wind condition, I think slightly the AQI has improved. Today, what I have seen from the CPCB, it is roughly 350.
31:35But it is still not good, but better than the previous days.
31:42350 is not bad. That's what we've come down to. The permissible limit is 50. At 350, countries shut down. They coop everybody inside their homes, ask them not to do anything. And look, I mean, how can you say it's not bad?
31:57But, you know, Dr. Gupta, the thing is that the BJP in Delhi fought this entire last election on the issue of pollution.
32:07You said that Arvind Kejriwal keeps making excuses. He passes the buck to other states. Vote for us, because BJP here in the center, at, you know, at the central level and at the state level, we will clean all these double engines.
32:21What have you cleaned?
32:23You remember, in the last 10 years, when Kejriwal was renewing Delhi, he was not on the field. And if you see the present Chief Minister, Shrimadhi Rekha Gupta Ji, she's always on the move, right since morning to evening.
32:43She's always taking care of all the things of Delhi, seeing all the projects, working very hard on this. And this is the difference. And if you compare the data of air quality index previous year to this year,
32:56I cannot say it is good, but still, if you compare, it is still better. We have a difference of 50 to 60 points in AQI. You can check all the records.
33:08And now we are working on the field. You know, already the source has been identified. Already the dust mitigation is in. You know, we are working very hard.
33:17Dr. Gupta, 50 points down is not an achievement. It's the weather playing its role. 50 points down today, it will be 200 up tomorrow. That's the weather doing tricks. That's nothing that your government has done.
33:29The day before yesterday, it was 450. Today, it is less than 350. Windy speed plays a role. I'm a technical in this thing. But we must appreciate the work being done by Delhi government.
33:44I am admitting the full flesh things have not been done, but things have started. You know, if you allow me, I can give you so many points, you know, for dust mitigation, the mechanical sweeping is done for sprinkling is done.
33:59Missed spray is done. New forests are being constructed. But, you know, cleaning the air is not a one-day job. It takes two, three years.
34:06And one more thing, for the long term, for this vehicle, you know, already GRAPH4 is in enforcement. Already, less than BS6, the entities have been banned.
34:15So many measures are there. You don't get diesel or petrol without the PUC certificates. All these measures are there.
34:22But still, they are the emergency measures, I must admit. But we have to work more. And already, Delhi government has made an expert committee of the renowned scientists of the country, including IITs and other institutions.
34:34Before, let me come to that then. You mentioned GRAPH4, so I am asking now. Our investigation at India today says and shows very, very clearly that those GRAPH4 measures are being flouted left, right and centre.
34:48There are people who are constructing at the night, switching off the lights. There are people who are burning, you know, coal and other things at night.
34:56There are trucks who are entering Delhi without PUCs when they should not be allowed. There are, you name it. How is this, you know, going to work if you're going to be so weak on implementation?
35:10And now you can't make an excuse. The police is also under the BJP, under the Home Minister only now, right?
35:15You may be right and you may not be correct. Both ways, I explain you. Delhi has a good population. It has a population of more than 3 crores. Plus, a lot of Delhi users are there who visit Delhi regularly.
35:34Today is the first day for the enforcement sort of this measures. Already measures have been taken, but there may be some teeth. The citizens of Delhi, the citizens of NCR need to be educated.
35:45They need to be told about the implication of all these things. And we are working, you know, in one day we can have, we cannot have the full flesh enforcement.
35:54It is, you know, we have the manpower constraint also, but things will be in order, that's for sure. The things have started. And there are some cases when people say what will happen to the taxis which are not basic.
36:06So, as a responsible, as a sensible government has to take care of all the stakeholders. But things have started working.
36:14Dr. Gupta, a sensible, responsible government should have prepared for the winter. Did you prepare for the winter? Was there a pollution plan that kicked off 3-4 months before so you could, you know, mitigate all these things, all the weather patterns?
36:29I, you know, what, you know, really comes to mind at this point is that Delhi government has woken up into action only after the booing that took place at the messy event for Rekha Gupta.
36:40It's only after the Delhi chief minister was embarrassed that some measures have been started now.
36:48No, no, no, it is not correct. Let me again give you some data. When Rekha Gupta government took the power of Delhi, we had the capacity of processing garbage for 10,000.
37:01Now it has been increased to 15,000. The C&D collection was maximum 5,000 times per day. Now it has been increased to 10,000.
37:09The waste-to-energy plants were hardly 3-4. Now it has been increased to 5. The hazardous disposal site is in place.
37:16Delhi has a road network of 28,000 more than that. The mechanical sweepings, war footing, first time in the history of Delhi, the cleaning with the water of all this ring road has been done.
37:29So many measures there. But I must admit, you have a right to say because AQI is not down as people have anticipated. But it is not a one day job, you know.
37:41But Dr. Gupta, you know, the Delhi chief minister today has become a meme. She does not understand AQI. Isn't that so embarrassing for the government that the chief minister of the national capital, a capital where the biggest issue at the moment is the pollution, does not know what AQI is, does not understand AQI?
38:08See, we must appreciate the 24 by 7 working of the lady. I mean, nobody has given her credit when the air was in good condition from February to August, when AQI was less than 200.
38:26But that it was last year's also. That is no credit to your government. How can you say that?
38:33No, no, no, no. If you compare, if you compare the figures, I have all the data from February to some weather also favours. It was because of the working.
38:45When the chhat puja was celebrated with funds here, nobody gives the credit. You know, the person who works always gets criticism. Always gets criticism.
38:55Well, let's not get started on chhat puja and that artificial pond that was created. We all saw that. That was the biggest farce that anybody with two eyes can really see. But Dr. Gupta, I have to let you go now.
39:07I have to say this in the end. The kids of the national capital, senior citizens, they are dying a slow death because of the inaction of the government.
39:17How is it that now when everything is in sync politically, we are not being able to find solutions? You have the best minds in the country who are offering help. You have other countries now offering help.
39:29This is an international embarrassment, a national failure. We are looking up to people like you to find solutions. And I really, really hope that the government will wake up and there will be some action plan that is floated.
39:46Last point, last point, last point, if you allow me, I request all the responsible citizens must give their feedback and recommendation to the expert committee which Delhi government has made so that we can have a better and clean Delhi next year.
40:02All right, let's do that. Let's urge all Delhiites to send their solutions and what they think should be done to the doorstep of the Delhi chief minister. Let's get her all the help that we can.
40:13And let's see if that sort of translates into some action. For the moment, I'll have to thank Mr. Gupta for joining us with the very latest on that.
40:22But it's not just the ruling governing party. The pollution debate not picking up in parliament has got to do with the opposition as well.
40:32Joining me next is Sushmita Dev. She's a member of parliament from the TMC.
40:38Ms. Dev, zero hours or zero minutes, in fact, have been dedicated to pollution inside parliament. This should have been a pollution session.
40:49Your MPs created ruckus and the debate could not happen. Aren't you embarrassed that an important issue like this could not be picked up?
40:56It's extremely upsetting that, you know, Delhi being the capital and the fact that we come as parliamentarians from different parts of the country.
41:11And we come into Delhi to face the kind of pollution that we do. We have seen people protest at India Gate, get arrested.
41:22And despite that, the way and the manner and the extent to which the problem of pollution should have been debated was totally sabotaged this time in parliament.
41:35After giving us the opposition an assurance that it would be debated, it wasn't debated.
41:41I myself moved a notice day before in Rajya Sabha to debate it, even though for a short duration, that was not accepted.
41:51And it reflects very poorly if the legislature cannot address the burning issues of a city in which we all meet at least three times a year on, you know, to make public policy.
42:06So it's very disappointing and but I can tell you that various notices have been moved by us in parliament, which is not entertained by the government.
42:17But Sushpita Dev, has the opposition done its due? We saw protests on SIR. We saw protests on other issues.
42:25You really pushed the government into taking up matters. You've managed to get debates in, you know, previously. Why not on pollution? Did you do your due?
42:34You see, SIR protest was also necessary because it is it is setting a democratic process.
42:48So I cannot pitch one issue against the other. Both are equally important for the people of India.
42:54But yes, I accede to the point that the government could have easily given us three or four hours of debate in the pollution.
43:03See, it is not good enough to simply raise the issue, although Mr. Gandhi did in Lok Sabha, because we don't get a reply. We don't know what the government is thinking about it.
43:16So this session has definitely not done any justice to the opposition issues and least of all to the issue of pollution in Delhi.
43:30So Sushpita Dev, you know, the attitude that I hear of politicians and this is across party lines, from BJP to Congress to Amathi Party to TMC to several others as well.
43:39I feel like politicians are too privileged to care about pollution. Is that the case? Because you are in parliament where the air is clean.
43:46You can afford air purifiers. People on the streets cannot. Are politicians too privileged to care?
43:52Not at all. We all have children at home. We all have aging parents at home. We ourselves are breathing this air.
44:04And we have no choice. We've seen government after government come and say, we are going to solve this problem, but it's not being solved.
44:11And, you know, some things are above politics. And pollution is one such issue. And what we should have ideally done in parliament this time is put our heads together to see that what is the solution.
44:25It's an emergency, if you like. It's an environmental emergency.
44:30And believe you me, there are a lot of negotiations that take place in the back channels. And we tried our very best to push it through, to debate it. But somehow the government did not relent.
44:44They listed it today in Lok Sabha, but they did not. They simply adjourned the House after passing the amendment to the NREGS Act.
44:55But Sushmita Dev, I have to ask you this. It's not just Delhi where the air is bad. West Bengal also has terrible air. In Kolkata, AQI goes above 300 in festival seasons, during Pujo.
45:09The minute, you know, the weather patterns don't permit. What are you doing to clean up the air in West Bengal, in Kolkata, where you are in power?
45:17The NDA makes everything an issue to win an election. But after election, when they are sitting in the seat of power, or where they are on the side where they are governing, and when they don't have answers, they don't want to debate it.
45:37No inconvenient issue, which doesn't suit the BJP. They don't want to debate it. That's the reality. That's why we are constantly saying that the two houses of parliament have become, you know, two dark chambers, where all that happens is bulldozing and bullying.
45:58And, you know, it's even worse to see people saying, oh, this is wastage of public money when you all protest. Why do we protest inside parliament? We protest because they do not relent to the topics that we want. Repeatedly, we move notices. If you were to study very carefully in the proceedings in the House, they don't entertain it. It is as simple as that. It's on record.
46:23Come on, Ms. Deeb. Come on, Ms. Deeb. My question is entirely different. I'm trying to understand from you, what have you done in Kolkata to clean the air? You're pulling up Kejriwal now. You are saying you're passing the buck exactly how he did. How can you not take ownership for the air, at least in Kolkata?
46:39I'm sorry. There are very, I don't know if you're aware, not just Kolkata, various industrial cities like even Asan, Seoul have very strict laws about industrialization in residential areas.
46:59So, I think, you know, that allegation is misplaced. And environment is everybody's joint responsibility. Today, even people have to contribute to it, just like the government has to contribute to it. To say, I will not allow this, you know, BS6 fuel vehicles, that's a knee-jerk reaction.
47:19This is happening because there is no concerted effort. I'm on your side when it comes to this. I mean, it may help you to point a finger at me. Absolutely, you have every right to do that in a democracy.
47:31But the fact is, if there can be high-powered committees on important issues like GST, like other taxation issues, why can't there be a national forum or a high-powered committee on environment where Bengal, Delhi, Haryana, Punjab, all other states should come together and discuss it? There's no harm. We are open to suggestions. But that effort has to be made by the central government.
47:57Effort, I think, has to be made at every level, including the states' level, because this is not a Delhi problem. This is a 60% of India problem, and we need solutions for that 60% of India.
48:09But I have to thank you there, Ms. Day, for joining us with your views on that. Let's cut across now to one more guest that we have for you on the program. Joining us next is Congress MP, Dipinder Singh Huda.
48:19Mr. Huda, thank you so much for joining us here on Five Live. I have seen you, through the course of the winter session, turn up to Parliament with masks on, trying to raise the issue.
48:31Why have you failed in raising up the issue of pollution in Parliament today?
48:35By the way, I think the question is not framed correctly. The question is, why the Parliament did not discuss the issue today?
48:50And not just today. Why the Parliament did not discuss this issue in this session?
48:55And why the Parliament did not discuss this issue over so many years?
48:59And, by the way, I must inform you that I have been putting a notice to the government since 2017 onwards.
49:13You can count the number of years, nine years.
49:17Every session I have been putting up a notice to have a discussion on this issue.
49:22Not just a notice. In 2017, I also introduced a private member's bill called Clean Air Act, in which I had certain suggestions which I wanted to submit to the government.
49:38In terms of a legislation, I submitted that, but the government did not accept it.
49:43They, the minister said, we will not accept your private member bill, but we are going to have a national clean air plan.
49:51The problem, like you have been pointing, it's an extreme problem.
49:58And it is not some, a problem which can be wished away and the government, you know, why the government is not even having a discussion is beyond me.
50:09Beyond me. And if we are not, if we are not able to discuss a people's problem like air pollution,
50:16faced by so many vast millions of Indians in Indian parliament, where am I supposed to take this problem?
50:24Should I take this problem to the American Senate?
50:27Should we be discussing it there?
50:29Why can't we discuss when the people in the stadiums are chanting AQI, AQI?
50:35Why the ruling party MPs inside parliament are chanting BJP, BJP?
50:40Why can't this be a discussion?
50:43And, you know, I feel collectively, you know, I'm one of the members of parliament representing a constituency which completely falls in NCR.
50:54And today's report, today's Dainik Bhaskar report says that yesterday's AQI in my hometown of Rohtag made it the...
51:05It's written in the country that Rohtag is the most important part of the country.
51:08For example, Delhi yesterday was 334, Rohtag was 385.
51:13So, it just shocks me that...
51:17But Mr. Huda, I have to ask you this.
51:19You are one of the few MPs.
51:21You're right that you've consistently raised the issue.
51:23You're also right that I see you every day, at least in parliament, go with your mask.
51:27You're educating people.
51:28You're asking the government.
51:29You're urging them to take action.
51:31But why do you think it does not cut it with the government?
51:34They are also breathing the same air, right?
51:37Why do you think our top governing body are not bothered by it?
51:44So, I'll tell you what government has done.
51:48And there are two, three parts to this question.
51:50And if you're keen to understand, I'll tell you what's happening.
51:53Please.
51:53Number one, it's never been a priority with the government because it's not the most important political issue.
51:59As far as people are not voting on this issue, according to some of the political pundits who are advising, which really shocks me.
52:08But anyway, when I...
52:09See, why I...
52:10I'll tell you.
52:11I'll go back where I started.
52:132016.
52:132017, I introduced the private member bill, and I've been raising it ever since.
52:17I had, you know, in my...
52:21My son was born in 2016, and that Diwali, I looked at the newspaper report, and that report said that, you know, on the next day to Diwali, anybody, even the newborn, would be smoking 30 cigarettes worth of...
52:37You know, inhaling that much worth of pollution.
52:41So, that shook my conscience.
52:43So, I'm talking not just a Congress, you know, a member of Parliament or a political party.
52:48I'm talking on behalf of all the parents, the fathers and mothers in Haryana, in Delhi, in NCR, other cities.
52:57And I'm also talking to you on behalf of those little children who don't have a voice either in your channel or even in the Parliament.
53:05So, their voices should be heard by the...
53:07So, after that, I started this.
53:09When I proposed a solution, and my solution was...
53:13I'll go back to my solution also.
53:16I had proposed that just like NCR Planning Board, there is a board called NCR Planning Board, which plans all the infrastructure projects within NCR, Haryana, and Delhi.
53:26Roads, highways, et cetera.
53:28And that board has a lot of funding.
53:32Budget is given.
53:32A similar board is constituted, which is chaired by the Minister of Environment as the chairman, overseen by the Prime Minister himself, with all the chief ministers as members of that board.
53:45Right now, what happens is every winter, Delhi is blaming Haryana, Haryana is blaming Punjab, Punjab is blaming Aam Admi, Aam Admi is blaming Congress, BJP.
53:54We are all blaming each other.
53:55No, but this year, there is no blame game.
53:58This year, there is no talk only.
53:59This year, the government is behaving as if pollution does not exist.
54:03No, I agree with you.
54:06So, my point was that you have to have a board where all the chief ministers are members so that nobody can pass on the blame to anybody else.
54:16And there is proper budget and proper plan.
54:20With proper plan, any pollution problem can be solved.
54:24But, you know, in 1950s, there was a, I'll give you three examples.
54:291950s, London was the most polluted.
54:31There's a big thing called London smog.
54:34You know, the London smog lasted for so many days in London.
54:37There used to be a talk that you go out with a white shirt, you come back with a black.
54:41So, they were able to solve it.
54:43They had passed something called Clean Air, National Clean Air Act.
54:48My clean air bill was, you know, took a lot of things from the London Act.
54:53There are a lot of measures.
54:54Similarly, Mexico City, 1992, had AQI touching 500 and 600.
54:59Of course, we have a little more even now.
55:02But, Mexico City today has an AQI less than 50.
55:04Yeah, we've reported on that, Mr. Huda.
55:06I'm totally running out of time, which is why.
55:08And Beijing.
55:09It's China, it's Mexico City, it's London.
55:12There are enough, there are enough things.
55:14Just last 10 seconds I have, very, very briefly.
55:19Okay.
55:20So, we need the parliament to discuss this.
55:24We need the prime minister and government to take ownership and present a plan to the nation.
55:31The next five years, we are going to solve the problem.
55:33We are going to go give this problem enough budget.
55:36And the monitoring committee has to constitute of all the affected states,
55:41chief minister, headed by the prime minister himself.
55:44And I am very confident that we will be able to solve the problem.
55:48But, unless the problem is recognized by,
55:51if you are unable to recognize the problem and even don't have a discussion,
55:55and then forget about having a plan to solve it,
55:58next winter session, I am going to be seen again on your TV channel giving the same sermons.
56:04Well, I think we should call the winter session a pollution session.
56:07We should dedicate a full session only to discuss this.
56:09And I really hope there are more MPs like you who are able to take that conversation forward for the moment.
56:15Thank you so much for joining us and for also being constructive.
56:19I have a suggestion for you.
56:25All right.
56:26Completely out of time.
56:27We'll see you tomorrow.
56:27Bye-bye.
Comments