- 7 weeks ago
Sonal Mehrotra Kapoor anchors this special report on Delhi's severe air pollution crisis as the Air Quality Index (AQI) remains in the 'very poor' category. The coverage details the implementation of strict new measures, including the 'No PUC, No Fuel' policy, which denies fuel to any vehicle lacking a valid Pollution Under Control certificate, a rule enforced with cameras at petrol pumps. The report captures the last-day rush at PUC centers through ground reports from Shivani Sharma and Anmol Bali. It also delves into the political debate, with BJP, AAP, and Congress spokespersons presenting their views on the government's strategy and the lack of a national action plan. This follows an incident where Chief Minister Rekha Gupta was met with 'AQI' chants. CEEW's Mohammad Rafiuddin provides expert analysis on the efficacy of these curbs alongside GRAP-4 measures. The bulletin also covers the arrest of the Luthra brothers in connection with the Goa nightclub fire and the shortlisting of the film 'Homebound' for the Oscars.
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00:00Delhiites breathes toxic air
00:07AQI remains very poor
00:13Bataan natives fight and pass the buck
00:15Opposition wears masks, sirsa taunts
00:30Chinese embassy prescribes a pollution cure
00:38But people need real solution
00:44When will Delhi get breathable air is the top focus on India today
01:00This is 5 Live
01:02Delhi's air continues to be toxic
01:05Continues to slowly but surely kill us
01:08And what exactly are our politicians doing?
01:11They are saying it's not our problem
01:13We inherited the problem
01:15It will not be solved in 7 months
01:17But what exactly is the plan?
01:18Is there a 6 month, 1 year plan that you have in mind?
01:21And why are only Delhi ministers speaking about it?
01:24What about UP? What about Haryana?
01:26What about 60% of the country
01:28Which continues to breathe bad air
01:32Continues to choke slowly but surely
01:35All that and more on the programme today
01:37Our top focus also includes
01:39This is the last day to get your PUC done
01:42The only needle that has moved on pollution
01:45Has been the crackdown on vehicular pollution we saw yesterday
01:49But are you going to do your bit now?
01:51That and more, first up, the headlines
01:53Delhi continues to breathe toxic air
01:58Delhi government has now placed stricter curves for pollution
02:0150% work from home mandate for government and private offices there
02:05Construction ban order under Grap 4 in Delhi
02:0910k compensation for construction workers
02:12Meanwhile, the Environment Minister, Majinder Sirsa
02:16Blames Aamadni Party Supremo Arvind Ketriwal for the air pollution
02:20He also urged people to update their PUC
02:23The Supreme Court has issued a notice to the National Highways Authority of India
02:29The NHAI regarding the traffic congestion caused by toll plaza on the borders of Delhi
02:34The Centre, meanwhile, has released new norms for social media and OTT platforms
02:40OTT content to remain outside the censor board jurisdiction
02:45Game over for Lutra Brothers
02:50The Killer Brothers have now been produced in court
02:53They will be grilled by Goa police next
02:55Congress Neta insults Army's Operation Sindhoor
03:02Bala says India defeated on day one of Operation Sindhoor
03:07Questions need for army of 12 lakh soldiers Shinde then attacked
03:12Chavan says Congress speaks Pakistan's language
03:16Rahul Gandhi has now mocked India's manufacturing on foreign soil
03:23Rahul Gandhi says India's manufacturing declining must grow
03:28News from Maharashtra then
03:35An exclusive scoop on the Mahayuti seat-sharing talk
03:38Strategic alliance
03:40Friendly fights for Mahayuti
03:42Sena now bargains hard for 125 of the 227 BMC seats
03:47Remember, BJP eyes on 140 to 150 seats in Mumbai's civic body
03:52Congress ups the ante against BJP after relief to Gandhis in the National Herald case
04:00The party demands Prime Minister Modi and Home Minister Shah's resignation
04:04BJP demands and sort of goes in to remind them that this isn't the final verdict
04:09And finally, Ishaan Khattar and Vishal Chetwa's homebound has been shortlisted for the prestigious 98th Academy Award in the Best International Film category
04:22Karan Johar reacts to their development says he's over the moon
04:26For anybody who's seen the movie, it's a must watch
04:28It's a must watch
04:33Alright, this is no longer just a winter problem
04:36And it's no longer just Delhi
04:38Hazardous air, dense smock, rising respiratory illnesses
04:42Today, nearly 60% of India is breathing air that doctors classify as unhealthy
04:49From the national capital to smaller cities and towns
04:53Toxic air has become a year-round public health crisis
04:56But Delhi remains its most visible epicenter
05:00And yet, halfway across the world, there's a reminder that this crisis is not irreversible
05:06China's capital Beijing, once known globally as the smock capital of the world
05:11Has managed to significantly improve its air quality in just over a decade
05:14We know that already by now
05:16And as Delhi's sort of air stayed in the severe category
05:20For the most of the week, China Embassy in Delhi
05:24Stepped in with an offer to help
05:27In an extensive post on X
05:29And let's put that up on our screen as well
05:31Chinese Embassy spokesperson shared before and after images of Beijing
05:34Outlining the steps China took to clean up its capital
05:37Noting that both India and China have faced the same challenges of toxic air
05:42Amid rapid urbanization
05:44The subtext here was unmistakable
05:47The science is known
05:48The playbook exists
05:50What matters is actually execution
05:52Will India do it?
05:54Also, will India take China's help?
05:56But what's happening back home?
05:58Back home, vehicular pollution remains one of the biggest contributors of Delhi's smock-choked air
06:04India did move to cleaner fuel standards
06:07All vehicles manufactured after April 1st, 2020
06:11And mandated to meet the BS-6 emission norms
06:14But policy on paper has not always translated into enforcement on the road
06:19Remember that?
06:20So we'll try and find out how that is going
06:22That's where today becomes crucial for Delhi commuters
06:26Because please listen to this carefully
06:28From tomorrow
06:30Vehicles without any valid pollution under control certificate
06:34What we popularly call as PUC
06:36Will not be allowed to refuel in the capital
06:40No PUC means no petrol, no diesel
06:44Fuel stations will deny service to non-compliant vehicles in a hard enforcement step
06:49Not an advisory
06:52At the same time
06:54Entry restrictions remain in force
06:56Only BS-6 compliant vehicles are allowed in Delhi
06:59While older, more polluting vehicles continue to be barred under the current anti-pollution curves
07:04Now remember, this is one of the rare moments that we've seen
07:09Where intent is being matched with action
07:12Words are being matched with action
07:14Finally, something has been done
07:17But whether this becomes a turning point
07:20Or just another temporary clampdown
07:22After the booing of the Delhi Chief Minister happened
07:26Will all of this fade away once the smog lifts?
07:30That depends entirely on enforcement
07:33So first up on the programme
07:35Let's get you a view on that with our reporters
07:38Joining me next is Shivani Sharma and Anmol Bali
07:41Anmol was there at the press conference as well
07:44Both of them outside a PUC station
07:46Shivani, I want to come to you first
07:48Today is the last day to actually get your PUCs in place
07:52Otherwise from tomorrow no fueling will take place
07:54Is what the Delhi government is saying
07:56Has that message gone across?
07:59I'm wondering if there are long lines today outside PUC
08:03What exactly are the people there telling you?
08:05Sonal, I'm right now at one of the pollution checking centres in Delhi
08:15And I was speaking to the person who's giving these certificates
08:18He told me that what happens every day is that 10 to 12 cars come for pollution checking certificates
08:24But today what has happened is around 30 to 40 cars had come
08:28And still vehicles are coming here
08:32And not only for the pollution certificates but also to get the fuels here
08:36And in a number of petrol pumps too
08:39So the enforcement that has now come into being is hopefully going to make some change
08:45Because these rules under GRAP 4
08:49They also need to be enforced strictly
08:53But yes you can see the cameras out here also which have been put here
08:57So everything will be noted and recorded
09:01And no vehicle will be getting any fuel without the compliances
09:05Without the pollution checking certificates
09:07They have to show those certificates first
09:10And these petrol pumps are also preparing for that enforcement
09:14Sonal in the national capital
09:16Because national capital suffers the most with the highest AQIs and poisonous air
09:22So now we have to see what happens tomorrow
09:24We'll come again and see and get a reality check on the petrol pump
09:29But certainly on the pollution certificates
09:32People are coming, they are taking their certificates
09:35And since this announcement was made
09:37There have been certificates that have been issued to people
09:41And they are still coming here
09:42A little while ago there were a few vehicles here
09:46Who were getting checked and who were getting their pollution certificates
09:49And this will continue
09:51Because from tomorrow there will be strict compliance as per the government
09:55None of the vehicles will be getting their fuel without these certificates
10:00And the BS6 vehicles are only authorized to be out
10:04So that is a step that has been taken by the government
10:07But we have to wait and watch what kind of impact
10:10It brings to the people in the national capital
10:13Got it, Anmol Bali is also with us
10:15Anmol, let me come to you
10:17And correct me if I am wrong
10:18This applies only to Delhi
10:20That means you could still go to a Gurgaon or a Noida
10:23To get fueling done
10:25If you don't have a PUC
10:27This also only applies to Delhi in the case of BS6
10:30That means again the satellite towns can easily be exploited
10:34Since they believe like they are breathing as if some other air
10:38Also Anmol, help me understand how easy or difficult is it to get away with a false PUC these days
10:44So Anmol, as you know the national capital is currently backing with the worst pollution crisis
10:52Where the AQI has surpassed the very poor and severe category mark
10:55And various measures have been employed by the Delhi government
10:58To curb the detroiting AQI national capital
11:01And yesterday it was seen that Delhi's Environment Minister Manjinder Sirsa has told media person
11:05That people without PUC certificates will not be getting fuel at the petrol pumps
11:10You have talked with one of the person who gives certificates to the people
11:16Those who come here for the PUC
11:18He said that average he used to give around 40 certificates
11:21But now he is having around more than 60 to 70 customers daily
11:25He is also hoping that the number will increase
11:27So this is what Delhi government has proposed to curb the pollution in the national capital
11:31But yes, this is only applicable for the Delhi today
11:35While talking with media, Inder Sirsa also explained that he will be having a meeting with people
11:40With the Patrol Pump Association
11:42Those who are requesting government to stop this measure
11:45They are also requesting government to apply these measures to the other satellite cities
11:49Like Noida, Ghaziabad and Gurugram also
11:51Because Delhi's AQI detroiting is not only Delhi's problem
11:56It's a problem for the whole NCR region
11:58Where Minister has also told the media person that he is talking with the other state government
12:03The neighbouring cities also to control pollution there
12:05So that could directly impact the AQI in the national capital
12:08So various measures as government has said they are taking
12:11They have also said they are hoping in Google maps
12:13To know about the hotspot and work on the hotspot
12:16Where AQI is more bad as compared to the other parts of the national capital sooner
12:20Right, I would like to go back to Shivani on this one
12:22And get another perspective if we still have her
12:24Shivani, I...
12:26You know this is a step
12:28Actually the first step in the right direction that we've heard in months
12:32Actually getting down and attacking the largest pollutant
12:36Which is vehicular pollution in the capital
12:39But could you give us a sense of how easy will it be for these petrol stations
12:46These fuel stations to actually say no to clients
12:50Say no to money on the basis of PUC
12:52And who's actually looking after the execution here?
12:56Sonal, as I was telling you that there are proper cameras that have been installed on each and every petrol pump in the national capital
13:08And the enforcement will include that each and every car that comes here
13:14That will be showing its PUC and only then the vehicle will be getting the fuel
13:18At least here where I am present and I have been to a number of petrol pumps
13:22We see that there are some cameras installed
13:24So everything will be monitored
13:26That's what at least the government is saying
13:28That they will be monitoring and the enforcement will be at place
13:32They will be making it strict
13:34And action will be taken if these petrol pump people do not comply with this rule
13:40But certainly we need to do some reality checks once this gets into implementation
13:46That whether it is actually being done on ground
13:50Because we've been seeing Sonal in past few days
13:53There have been no strict compliance or no strict implementations of the rules and regulations
13:59So the enforcement is the key
14:01The enforcement needs to be done
14:03And from tomorrow when this rule comes into being
14:06We'll have to see that whether what has been claimed by the government is actually being followed or not
14:11But certainly the petrol pumps have done their bit
14:14They have their cameras installed
14:16They are ready
14:17And from tomorrow they will be checking the PUCs before giving the petrol to the people
14:23If I want to talk to you, will you see the certificate of petrol?
14:28Is this rule ready?
14:31Madam, when we have a rule, we are ready?
14:34Do you know what about this?
14:37Do you know what about this?
14:39Yes
14:40The police have put this speaker
14:44He will come to his voice
14:46He will come to his voice
14:47He will come to his voice
14:48He will come to his voice
14:49He will come to his voice
14:50So there are detection cameras that have already been installed on the petrol pumps
14:55And directly if there is no compliance that camera will make a sound
15:00And then these people will not be giving fuel to them
15:03That's what they are saying
15:04So they are prepared
15:05The installations have been done
15:06But again, we have to see on ground how strictly these compliance are being followed
15:13And how they are impacting the air quality in Delhi
15:16All right, that's an excellent idea
15:19If enforced correct
15:20And if sort of it actually happens
15:23I am going to urge Anmol also to try and speak with a couple of petrol people over there
15:27And let's get an idea if they are up to speed with what's happening
15:31Meanwhile, we've got some reactions also coming in
15:34Of Dhilliwalas on what they feel about the PUC certificates
15:37No PUC, no fuel
15:39No PUC, no petrol
15:41No PUC, no diesel
15:43Take a look
15:44No PUC, no petrol
15:45No gas
15:46No gas
15:48No gas
15:49No gas
15:51No gas
15:52No gas
15:54No gas
15:56No gas
15:58Saiji
16:12I've been waiting for time for me.
16:16I'm not going to do it.
16:18What will it be?
16:20It will be.
16:22It will be a good thing.
16:24It will be a good solution.
16:42So, it gets underway at least in Delhi.
16:45On that note, let me also bring in our guest now.
16:47Mohamed Rafiuddin, the program lead for CEEW, joins us next.
16:52Rafiuddin, I want to understand from you why this is so critical.
16:59Like I said in the beginning, the first time I'm actually seeing the needle move
17:03when it comes to some pollution measures being taken.
17:06We know by now that at least 50-60% of pollutants in the national capital,
17:11PPM 2.5 comes from our vehicles.
17:14More from two-wheelers and four-wheelers, of course.
17:16But with this step, what exactly are we expecting?
17:22So, you're right when you said that a large share of the contribution comes from transport.
17:28But I guess, you know, PUC regime itself will not be able to solve this
17:34because the way to solve this is to actually have restrictive measures
17:40on vehicles while also giving the people who are restricted to choose other forms of transport.
17:47For instance, having adequate public transport to cater to the demand that will be created by restricting these vehicles.
17:53Now, why I say the PUC regime itself is not sufficient is the PUC measures are very limited set of parameters.
17:59And it doesn't actually measure the particulate matter that's coming out of the vehicles.
18:05It looks at carbon monoxide and other constituents.
18:08So, there are plans to upgrade the PUC regime to a better regime which measures particulate matter and other things.
18:17And the second thing is that PUC is a decentralized, you know, measurement system wherein you're going to a petrol pump
18:24and you're getting your PUC check, right?
18:26So, there's a lot of opportunity for you to game the system also.
18:32And sort of, you know, I would say I would go on to the extent to say manipulate the readings too.
18:40So, PUC I don't think is a proof system at the moment.
18:44It's obviously being upgraded.
18:46But unless you're restricting the vehicles on road, this problem is going to persist.
18:52But isn't BS6 as a filter a way to restrict vehicles on the road?
18:57Do you think that works?
18:59I understand it's only for Delhi and everything else, you know, continues as is.
19:04But do you think that helps?
19:06Yeah, definitely.
19:07See, BS6 is much cleaner compared to say BS4 and obviously several times cleaner compared to BS3.
19:14And the fact that India has actually skipped BS5 and leapfrogged to BS6 itself, you know, a landmark thing that we've done.
19:21So, obviously, it's a stringent standard and restricting only to BS6 vehicles will definitely bring improvements.
19:28But the fact is that, you know, even BS6 vehicles, we have a lot of vehicles on the road.
19:34The volume itself is so high that unless you cut down this number also through some means and shift these people to public transport in some way,
19:45you're not going to see measurable reductions in particulate matter.
19:49Of course, there will be some reduction, but it will not be a drastic reduction in the particulate matter situation that you've seen right now.
19:55I see. So, I'm trying to put the whole picture together.
19:58You have PUC, you have BS6 restriction, you have 50% mandatory work from home, and you have hybrid for school.
20:08All of these put together in stage 4, which is graph 4 basically.
20:12Actually, everything apart from odd even has been applied now almost.
20:17Do you think we are still missing odd even right now?
20:23So, some countries have tried odd even and have found success.
20:28For instance, China, for example, tried odd even.
20:33And in Mexico, there was a famous program where people initially voluntarily let go of their cars once a week.
20:40And then it became like a mandatory program, government-backed program.
20:44And it also showed measurable reductions.
20:46So, the fact of the matter is when you're not putting 50% of your vehicles on the road,
20:51obviously you'll see, you know, dip in concentrations.
20:56And that is something that we've also seen as a natural, you know, experiment.
21:01When COVID hit and vehicles were forced to get off the road, we saw drastic reductions in particulate matter
21:07and other constituents like nitrogen dioxide and other pollutants across the country, not just in Delhi.
21:14So, obviously, when you take out vehicles and reduce activity on the road, you will see measurable reductions for concentrations.
21:21And the current grab restrictions on, for example, mandating work from home play a role in enabling that.
21:2850% though, actually, yeah.
21:30Yeah, but play a role in enabling that.
21:31Like, for example, if a lot of private companies ask their staff to work from home,
21:36then you're reducing an unnecessary commute,
21:38whether in their private vehicles or, you know, burdening the public transport system,
21:44which is already stretched, right?
21:46So, that will bring down concentration levels.
21:50But it cannot be like a temporary measure that's like put in and then taken off.
21:55So, we need to figure out how we are going to make it a long term measure
21:59so that we have sustained reductions instead of, say, piecemeal reductions.
22:03I think that's an excellent point.
22:05Are you suggesting then that we move to BS6 throughout the year?
22:11And we move to BS6 across North India?
22:14Not just Delhi, but knowing fully well that the air we all breathe does not have borders.
22:20And it's not like Delhi lungs are different from, you know, a human being in Noida or Gurgaon.
22:26Do you think that's where we need to go to for a sustained effort to bring down vehicular pollution?
22:32So, it cannot just be BS6. Obviously, it has to also include electrification.
22:37Yes.
22:38For example, there is opportunity to electrify your commercial fleet,
22:42your small transport that happens within the cities through the light commercial vehicles.
22:47They can obviously be electrified and the technology is already available.
22:52The technology is already available for two-wheeler electrification, for example.
22:57And we've also seen a lot of electric cars on the road.
23:00The objective, obviously, is to move towards cleaner fuel,
23:04but at the same time, look at how we can accelerate the electrification.
23:07So, ultimately, when you move all the vehicles to electric,
23:11then all your tailpipe emissions are gone.
23:13So, now you'll have to deal with other forms of pollution.
23:16Like, for example, you call it non-exhaust emissions.
23:18That's the dust that's getting resuspended in the air to the vehicular movement.
23:22But that's a different problem to solve altogether.
23:24But at least, if you want to reduce your tailpipe emissions,
23:27one, you'll have to move as much as possible to electrification.
23:30Where electrification is not possible, you'll have to move towards cleaner fuel standards,
23:34like BS6 and we'll probably see BS7 also in the future, coming in one or two years.
23:39Okay, last question really, Mohamed, I want to understand from you.
23:43Today, the government, there were meetings today that were held at the national level as well.
23:48We are made to understand that Delhi Environment Minister was also called in,
23:52there were meetings, etc.
23:53But for me, the issue is largely that we are not engaging with other states.
24:00We are not engaging with a Haryana and a UP and a Rajasthan and a Madhya Pradesh,
24:07all of them put together and then talking about, in fact, even our metros,
24:12where again the issue is of vehicular pollution, of construction, etc.
24:16Today, if vehicular pollution were to be looked at in isolation, just fixing that one piece of the puzzle,
24:27is that going to be good enough to at least better the air by say 20%, 30%?
24:33Is that ballpark, does that make sense?
24:37Right. So, if you look at the numbers, in winter, according to the Air Quality Decision Support System,
24:43Delhi's own vehicles, Delhi's own transportation sector contributes to 14% of the air pollution.
24:49Now, here we are including NCR sources and Delhi sources together.
24:53Now, if you just look within Delhi's…
24:54Transportation sector, you mean only like buses and other vans and other trucks, etc.
25:01All vehicles. Commercial vehicles, private vehicles.
25:04Okay, okay.
25:05So, if I just zoom into Delhi's own boundaries, I don't look at sources from outside.
25:10If I just look at that pie, then within that pie, transportation contributes to 50% of Delhi's PM 2.5.
25:18So, solving the problem within Delhi itself can give you a lot of gains.
25:23But like you said, coordinated effort across states, right, will get us the gains faster.
25:29The reason is, the vehicles that are registered in Haryana, the vehicles that are registered in UP, they come from Noida, they come from Burgaon, into Delhi.
25:37There's free movement 2 and 4.
25:39So, it's not like you can solve the problem only within Delhi and expect gains.
25:43Because you have to solve it NCRI, which is why the CAQ makes this to coordinate between all these states and have a coordinated plan that works for all these states.
25:53So, solving for transportation itself can definitely give you that 20-30% gain that you're talking about.
26:01That reduction can definitely come from this sector alone.
26:04Right.
26:05So, I think that, for me, is the silver lining.
26:09If you're able to just, because it's a mammoth task to solve for India's air.
26:14Right?
26:15It's a mammoth task because we're a complicated country with lots of little things to sort of take care of.
26:20We are spread across, you know, different working class groups.
26:24And, you know, it's difficult to enforce at the cost of somebody's livelihood, at the cost of kids staying at home, at the cost of, you know, people not leeching work.
26:33So, in case, if this one piece of puzzle can be solved, we would have solved at least 20% of the pollution problem.
26:41The question now is, Beijing is offering help.
26:44Our experts are telling us this.
26:47Will the government act?
26:49That's the one-point agenda that we really want to see.
26:52For the moment, I'll thank you for joining us for the very latest.
26:58All right.
26:59All about implementation.
27:00Smog and fog, like we said, continues to be major challenges for the national capital.
27:04However, today the city got a mild respite from air pollution, with AQI now in the very poor category.
27:09No thanks to any measures, by the way.
27:11All thanks to the wind speed.
27:13Meanwhile, the only speed which is not catching up is our politicians who continue to spar over the issue.
27:21It is not my problem.
27:22It is the previous government's problem.
27:24This is what I have inherited.
27:26This we heard when there were different parties in power in neighbouring states.
27:31And this we continue to hear when it's the same party across all states and centre.
27:36So what's happening?
27:38Here's the politics of pollution.
27:44Delhi is choking, and its politicians are busy in a blame game.
27:48After two days of severe air pollution, the national capital of Wednesday got a mild respite,
27:59with the AQI improving to the very poor category.
28:03In the past 24 hours, because of the wind speed,
28:06the air quality index in Delhi and the adjoining cities have reduced to a large extent.
28:12Again, in terms of when Delhi was reporting 400 plus AQI,
28:17now it is actually at 329, which is very poor category.
28:22And that too is considered not good for your lungs and for your family members.
28:29That's what Delhi looks like on 14th and 15th of December.
28:33The AQI was in severe category.
28:36And now, if you look at the numbers, many of the Delhi AQI stations are still reporting AQI above 350.
28:46The opposition is targeting the BGP government in Delhi over the issue.
28:51We are doing out by LAPQI on in 8 months,
28:54to write local 주세요 and local administration's school
28:58This is the region.
28:59This is the region's localisation.
29:01This is the vertical of your school.
29:02Today, the Governor the dripping of your school and the
29:17N metals will remain better.
29:18Several opposition leaders were seen wearing masks in Parliament over the last few days.
29:30State Environment Minister Manjinder Singh Sirsa accused them of hypocrisy but admitted
29:35that air quality remains a challenge.
29:48The Delhi government has taken several measures to curb pollution including 50% compulsory work
30:10from home, a ban on all construction activities and denial of fuel at petrol pumps without a
30:16valid pollution certificate and a ban on the entry of non-BS6 vehicles from other states.
30:22Ahmed, all this, the Chinese embassy in Delhi has offered advice on how to tackle pollution.
30:28In a post on X, the Chinese embassy said that cleaner air does not happen overnight and suggested
30:34a phase-out of high-emission vehicles.
30:37With Ahmed Bhardwaj, Bureau Report, India Today.
30:39All right, the politics of pollution.
30:45That's the sad question we have to debate today.
30:49But joining us next are representatives from BJP, the Congress and the Amadhi Party.
30:54Joining me from the BJP is Neoma Gupta, spokesperson and lawyer.
30:58Dr. Aneka Mehrotra joins us from the National Spokesperson for the Congress Party and Siddharth
31:04Sharma, Amadhi Party spokesperson over there.
31:06BJP is the party in power.
31:07So I have to begin by asking you, Neoma Gupta, that earlier when...
31:13Good evening, ma'am.
31:14Thank you so much for joining us.
31:15Earlier, when I was doing the exact same issue, which by the way, we've been covering
31:20for the past decade, when AQI was not a household name, we've been covering this issue since then.
31:28But the sad trajectory is that then the Amadhi Party government in power said that, listen,
31:34Delhi cannot fix this problem alone.
31:36We need help from Punjab.
31:38We need help from Haryana.
31:40We need help from UP.
31:41And we said, fair enough.
31:43This can't be a problem that can be sorted by Delhi alone.
31:46But today, what is the excuse that BJP has?
31:50Why haven't we seen a national plan to clean air?
31:56Why don't we know that by 2030 or 35 or even 40 for that matter, you have an action plan
32:02in place which will clean the air for not just Delhi, but 60% of the country?
32:08Good evening, ma'am.
32:10So pollution is a very big concern for us.
32:12And yes, right now we are facing comparatively a higher AQI.
32:17Delhi government is working full throttle to reduce the impact of pollution which we are
32:21facing right now.
32:22Sometimes the weather conditions are not conducive and there are multiple factors.
32:26However, while some might say that, you know, there's politicization of pollution, but we
32:32have chosen now to take data-driven decisions, tough measures, and I've shown no hesitation
32:38to impose curbs for public health.
32:40So today, as you're saying, why is there no action plan?
32:44I'd like to tell you about all the measures which we are taking, which we've actually started
32:48taking from the day we formed the government, and which is an ongoing process.
32:53Right now, things are more aggressive as the AQI is high.
32:56We spoke about those measures, ma'am.
32:58Yeah, yeah.
32:59We spoke about those measures.
33:01But can I underline that we've heard of these measures after the Delhi Chief Minister
33:05was booed at the Messi event?
33:08Before that, the Environment Minister was defiant?
33:12Before that, the Environment Minister said, hey, let's compare it in the last year.
33:17Anybody who understands anything about AQI will say, you cannot compare date to date.
33:21You have to see the overall number of bad air days, which are same if not worse.
33:26Okay, so just to tell you, we have been, as I said, from the word go, when it comes to
33:31road inspection drives, when it comes to water sprinklers, dust suppression systems, we have
33:36already been in place.
33:37Everyone living in Delhi has also seen him.
33:39Like small things, ma'am, like the potholes in Delhi, which are a major cause of dust accumulation,
33:45more than 18,000 potholes have been repaired, 2650 of road sites have been paved.
33:50All construction and demolition activities have been completely banned, including the highways.
33:55Now, you're saying you're just doing steps right now.
33:58I mean, 96% of the industries have shifted to approved fuels, and the CAQM has, like,
34:04constituted a dedicated cell to track the real-time source of emission from industries.
34:08This is not new, ma'am.
34:09This already existed.
34:11Ma'am, these are…
34:11What have you done on top of that?
34:13Ma'am, never were 18,000 potholes done.
34:16Never was 2650 kilometers done.
34:18Never were 96% of industries replaced.
34:20So, don't tell me these things have happened overnight.
34:23Yes, right now, with the need of the hour, we have taken very, very aggressive steps when
34:28it comes to compliances, PUC certificates, only BS6 vehicles.
34:32See, ma'am, please understand, we are also here carrying a legacy of a lot of liability.
34:37Having said that, not wanting to politicize pollution issues, we are taking very concrete
34:42steps, like supposing legacy waste processing.
34:457,000 tons per day have been added.
34:48This couldn't have happened overnight or over the weekend or over the month of December.
34:51It's happened since the time our government came.
34:54We are very, very clear that pollution is a very big issue.
34:58And as you've said in your previous, I think you were speaking to an environmentalist, if
35:02I'm not mistaken.
35:03Even when it comes to concurrent steps, like Haryana, for example, the farm fires have reduced
35:08a lot, up to 65%.
35:10They are already, you know, like PNG, CNG pipelines are coming into play.
35:15UP, heavy diesel vehicles are being barred.
35:17Ghaziabad, Noida, municipal authorities are conducting regular anti-smog.
35:20Only for the last one week.
35:23Regular, I mean, okay, on the issue of farm fires, let me be very clear.
35:28We have now conclusive data that the numbers are being gamed.
35:31That there are, our own investigation done by the ACHTAK SIT team showed very clearly that
35:37farmers have been told the time of the satellite movement and that's when they plan burning
35:43off crops at some other time.
35:44So that's clearly established.
35:45As far as water sprinkling is concerned, we have seen, I went on the road to do a reality
35:50check.
35:51A lot of them were hovering around the meters.
35:52They were not on the road.
35:54And then there is anyways, very little evidence of what water does to actually PM 2.5.
35:58But let me move on now and bring in Amadhi Party, whose legacy you think you have been
36:02carrying on.
36:04Siddharth Sharma is here with us.
36:05Siddharth Sharma, I want to understand from you, for years and years you have said that,
36:11oh, what can we do?
36:12We need help from BJP, oh, what can we do?
36:15But even when you were in power and Punjab was within you, how did we see any constructive
36:20error?
36:20How is the BJP doing anything different from what you did, which was just, you know, pass
36:25on the blame?
36:26We didn't see anything constructive come out from your end as well.
36:29Why are you blaming them now when they're practically following the same playbook?
36:34Sonal, whenever there is a social emergency, universal emergency, there's no point in being
36:40adversarial.
36:41Just like we saw in COVID, we have to fight this all together.
36:45And Amadhi Party in Delhi has been given a mandate of being a constructive opposition.
36:49So as a constructive opposition, I'll first try to point out a few lacunas of what BJP needs
36:55to do and then what the possible solutions can be.
36:58And that's what a constructive opposition can do.
37:00Please only suggest what you could have done as well.
37:03Don't give them gyan now when they are in power.
37:06Tell me something that you did that BJP has not followed.
37:09Yeah, a simple thing.
37:12Amadhi Party's government in Delhi, when it was there for 10 years, it brought in electric
37:16vehicle buses.
37:17There are nearly 800 to 1,000 flying right now in Delhi.
37:21Can BJP show that next door Noida or Gurugram, both BJP ruled, has even a single EV bus?
37:26No, they cannot.
37:28So that's the lacuna that I'm trying to point out.
37:30And this is not being, I'm not being adversarial here.
37:32That's Punjab.
37:32You have power.
37:34You are in government in Punjab.
37:35Are there EVs in Punjab?
37:36There's no need for EVs in Punjab.
37:40Punjab is a rural area.
37:41And as far as Punjab is concerned, I agree to, I would not, that's why I'm saying, I'm
37:46not saying anything adversarial here.
37:47This is an India Today map of the entire India.
37:51And this is an India Today map, please remember.
37:53And you can see Punjab in the green.
37:54Punjab air is in the green.
37:56And the Delhi air is in the red.
37:58So farm fires have come down.
37:59Good day you've chosen to show me the map, Siddharji.
38:01Good day you've chosen.
38:03Today the wind speed is nice.
38:04Today it's very poor.
38:05Good day to show the map.
38:07No, no.
38:08It is India Today's map.
38:09Sonal, it is India Today's map.
38:11It's not my map.
38:12The map I'm showing belongs to India today.
38:14And it is clearly showing Punjab in the green and Delhi in the red.
38:17So that's why I said I'm not going to get into any adversarial thing.
38:21The simple point here, Sonal, I think you'll have to, we also have to understand that if
38:26BJP is to be believed, there is no pollution, certainly not from Punjab.
38:30If it were, show me one public concern about pollution or Punjab from the Honourable Prime Minister of India, Nada, Nil, Zilch.
38:39Plus, the Supreme Court, the LG and the CAQM have already given clean shit to a Punjab farmer.
38:46The Supreme Court is on record saying that during lockdown, the Punjab burned Parali, but there was no pollution in Delhi.
38:52The LG is on record saying that 74% of the pollution of Delhi comes from local sources.
38:57The CAQM has said that Punjab has brought down farm fires by 95%.
39:01Now, coming to the solution point, it's very simple.
39:04The solution is very simple, lies in Article 1 of the Indian Constitution.
39:08India is a union of states.
39:09BJP government needs to initiate an all-state, pan-India collective effort to contain this pollution.
39:16The more you centralize power, the more you suffocate yourself, release the pressure, decentralize power, make all stakeholders contribute.
39:23Governing India and an Indian cricket team are similar.
39:26It's a team game, not a Pradhanji's fiefdom.
39:29This entire fiasco is a result of the BJP ecosystem being politics-heavy and policy-light.
39:35There is no incentive on the BJP sarkaad to invest in policy.
39:39This is not just blood suffocation that we are going through.
39:42What we are witnessing is a policy suffocation of the BJP.
39:45I'll take your point on a centralized governing body.
39:48And I know Onikash Mehrotra is also waiting, but I'll just come to you, ma'am, in a minute.
39:53I want to go back to Neoma Gupta.
39:54Why haven't we got a centralized body, Ms. Gupta, on this issue just yet?
40:01When, like I said, Delhi is yours.
40:04I mean, Haryana is yours, basically.
40:06The mayor is yours.
40:08LG elected by you.
40:10Central government by you.
40:11Now what is stopping you from getting a centralized body?
40:14If we as a country could fight COVID, if we could put in mechanisms in place, if we could encourage people to wear masks, why?
40:21By the way, why haven't we seen a single advisory on wearing masks?
40:25Why aren't our leaders leading by example?
40:28Okay, first of all, there is high-level review on air pollution with the center and state.
40:33Okay, so please don't assume no work is being done just because everybody seems to be rather cynical on this point.
40:39And over here, let me make something very abundantly clear because I've been cut off when I'm speaking.
40:45The fight against pollution is happening on the ground, not on TV and social medias.
40:48Orders are being enforced.
40:50Violators are being shut down.
40:51And all this is happening all day.
40:53When it comes to coming and telling me, okay, every authority is under you, everything, work is being done.
41:00It's not easy to come and say all private and government institutions must implement 50% from work.
41:06And in another language, this is an...
41:08No, ma'am, let me also speak.
41:10No, ma'am, let me also speak.
41:11BJP has spent zero hours discussing pollution in parliament.
41:14This is also an advisory.
41:16This is also an advisory.
41:18When it comes to things like BS-6 vehicles will only be allowed to enter Delhi from tomorrow,
41:23these are more than an advisories.
41:25These are strict measures which are being taken.
41:27And when it comes to things like even compliance of vehicles, we've given them multiple warnings.
41:32And now, which were happening over the last few months.
41:35And now it's like only valid PUC will get a certificate will be provided fueled.
41:40So these steps...
41:41Let's see how that goes.
41:42We'll do a reality check tomorrow.
41:43Yes, you please see how it goes.
41:44We'll see how it goes.
41:45Yeah, yeah, you please see how it goes.
41:46Dr. Onika Merotra has been waiting and I want to go to her now.
41:49Dr. Onika Merotra, we basically saw Rahul Gandhi, we saw Priyanka Gandhi raise the issue.
41:57They've been talking about it.
41:59They're saying let's discuss it, etc.
42:00But have we heard enough from them?
42:04My problem is that we hear them say, oh, let's talk about pollution.
42:08But the protests that are happening outside Parliament are not on pollution.
42:11They are still on SIR and other issues.
42:14The opposition has the might at the moment.
42:17Parliament is on.
42:18They're all breathing the same toxic air.
42:24All right, one second.
42:25We have to cut across to Parliament on that note.
42:26We have to cut across to Parliament.
42:56All right, that was a glimpse from the Parliament of where the changing dynamic of the rural scheme,
43:19which was run rega earlier and now under a different name and a different scheme is being discussed.
43:23Yes, we'll cut across that.
43:23But let me go back to Dr. Onika Merotra.
43:26I want to understand from you, Dr. Merotra, what exactly has Congress done to raise this issue in Parliament
43:33with more vigour than just saying, oh, let's talk about it?
43:38Ma'am, at the onset, let me tell you, it couldn't have been more disgraceful of a sitting Chief Minister
43:43to be booed at an international event, you know, and with chants of AQI, AQI.
43:48Why I say this?
43:49Because, you know, we believe in the word of the Chief Minister.
43:52When she said, this year, Delhi Ayes will not have to leave Delhi in the winters.
43:57And on the other hand, Siddhajee said, you know, in nine months' time, we can't do anything.
44:02Now, this is the rhetoric.
44:03They have been doing it.
44:04They have the MCD under them.
44:06They have the MLA's are with them.
44:10The centre government is there.
44:11Much could have been done.
44:13But it cannot be done only when the winter arrives.
44:16It is a 24 into 7 question.
44:18They knew very well that Delhi, for the last many, many years, have been battling this issue.
44:24And constantly there was a blame game of Haryana or the neighbouring Faizabad or Gurgaon or whatever.
44:29Whosoever might be ruling the state.
44:30It was very important to understand the issues.
44:34But despite that, it was only blame game.
44:36When the Aam Amdi was there, the LG never allowed them to work.
44:41But when Shilaji was there, she worked consistently with the commissioners, with the MCDs.
44:46And she gave numerous, you know, small little acts like Green Delhi, Clean Delhi, say no to plastic, say no to kerosene.
44:54Involving of Bhagidari schemes.
44:55But there is a reason Congress is not in power, no, today.
44:58There is a reason why people have lost their confidence in Congress as well.
45:01No, no, no, I'm sorry.
45:02I'm sorry.
45:02Ma'am, let me speak.
45:06Because the others spoke very well.
45:07When we went power, Delhi got the best award from US.
45:12Why?
45:12Because there was sapling plantation.
45:15Even though we built flyovers and roads and metros, we did as much as we could do for the connectivity.
45:21And we ensured that plastic, single-use plastic was banned.
45:25But nothing of those steps have been taken during these two regimes, beat Aam Admi or the BJP.
45:31The BJP claimed that give us the MCD, give us the this thing, double-engine sarkar, triple-engine sarkar.
45:38Now you say, oh, it's the previous year, previous people's wrongdoing.
45:43And then the audacity of the chief minister who says, we send the MLA, they look at the mountain garbage and they say, you have to go, you have to go.
45:53Ma'am, these are steps taken to help pollution to remove.
45:57Come on, have mercy on the people of Delhi.
45:59Not only that, the schools have been closed randomly.
46:04Now, at least, Congress has been...
46:06What do you mean randomly?
46:07They've been closed because it's too poisonous for kids to go to school.
46:11What do you mean randomly?
46:12Are they doing that?
46:12I don't think that's fair to say.
46:14I think we've been asking for schools to be shut, offices to operate at 50%.
46:17We want lesser people on the road.
46:19We want lesser exposure as well.
46:21Come on, you can't say that.
46:23They've been closed.
46:24That's not the alternative, but what do you do in the short term?
46:27But let me say this.
46:28I have to wrap it up now.
46:30And let me say this.
46:31I think the reason why people are so angry this time
46:37is because when Congress was given a chance, it failed.
46:41When Amadi Party was given a chance, it failed.
46:43People really looked up to BJP, gave it a massive mandate,
46:47only on the hope that with center's approach,
46:51they will manage to fix this problem and we don't have a plan.
46:55That's why people are disappointed.
46:56And I think that's what we need to remember.
46:58Sadly, that's all the time we have,
47:00but we'll pick up this issue again tomorrow at 5 o'clock.
47:02See you then.
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