00:00Spotlight certainly landing on tensions between old alliances.
00:03That's following Friday's release of that bombshell national security strategy by Washington
00:08that paints Europe as weak and facing civilizational collapse.
00:11We've already seen reactions from EU policy chief Kaya Callas aiming to at least temper the situation,
00:17saying that Europe is the best chance of fighting against Russian aggression.
00:20Now EU council president Antonia Costa has hit back telling the Trump administration
00:24not to meddle in or influence European affairs.
00:28Let's take a look.
00:30Europe cannot accept the threat of U.S. interference in its politics.
00:34That's according to the EU council president Antonio Costa,
00:38who on Monday hit out at Washington's recent ideological criticism of the bloc's trajectory.
00:45The United States cannot replace European citizens in choosing which parties are good and which are bad.
00:54His words come just days after the U.S. released its new national security strategy,
00:59in which the current administration expressed disdain for the European Union and other transnational bodies,
01:06saying they undermine political liberty and sovereignty,
01:09migration policies that are transforming the continent and creating strife.
01:14The document also indicated support for the rise of far-right politicians in Europe,
01:19saying explicitly that the growing influence of patriotic European parties indeed gives cause for great optimism.
01:27Some members of the bloc, such as foreign policy chief Kaya Callas, have sought to play down the criticism.
01:34You know, U.S. is still our biggest ally, and there I read it as well that we are still the biggest ally.
01:43While others, such as Polish president Donald Tusk, tried to remind the U.S. that they share common enemies,
01:49and that Europe is their closest ally, not their problem.
01:53Regardless, it is now enshrined into U.S. policy, Washington's intent to pull back its support for Europe,
02:01and that it also wants to see the NATO alliance stop perpetually expanding.
02:06It's a win for Moscow.
02:09The nuance we see in the new concept certainly appeals to us.
02:13It speaks of the need for dialogue and building constructive, good relations.
02:18This is certainly appealing, and it's entirely consistent with our vision.
02:21Another notable point that will have Europe on edge and Moscow satisfied
02:27is that the strategy does not cast Russia as a threat to the United States.
02:33Let's unpack this now with Claude-France Arnaud,
02:36senior fellow at the Brussels Institute for Geopolitics,
02:39also former head of the European Defence Agency,
02:41as well as France's former ambassador to Belgium.
02:43Thank you so much, Claude-France, for joining us.
02:46I wonder if you take the position of Kaya Callas or of Antonio Costa here.
02:52Do you believe that the U.S. is undermining Europe's autonomy?
02:57Yes, quite clearly.
03:00I think the president of the European Council said something that is quite obvious.
03:08We always had a kind of dilemma or double speech from the United States,
03:16be able to defend yourself, be independent,
03:20but at the same time buy everything you want to buy from us.
03:24That has always been the very strange language from the United States.
03:29Now what is new, and I think Costa's reaction was absolutely legitimate,
03:36is quite openly presented intention to interfere in our internal political landscape and life.
03:47That is, at that level, and with the expressions that we have in the security strategy,
03:53the American security strategy, is really very, it's rather new,
04:00at least it's new to acknowledge it and to put it as a deliberate strategic objective.
04:07Having worked in the corridors of power, you've seen U.S.-EU relations,
04:13and you've seen how they've simmered, coming from previously the Obama administration,
04:19the Biden administration, Trump as well in between that.
04:21Is this anything new, or has it actually been simmering for a long time?
04:28What is not new, and I must say that we must acknowledge that the Americans have been very clear since Obama,
04:36is to warn us, be able to be non-dependent, to act by yourself.
04:43You should be now security providers.
04:46I take words heard from the Pentagon.
04:49You should be security providers, not security customers.
04:52Then, again, we have been hearing this very clear message from the United States.
04:58We want to pivot to Asia and then do your job in the United States.
05:02During Decade, that was the language even before I was in the European Defense Agency.
05:07And very few people accepted to listen to that and to take action according to this very clear message from Washington.
05:15Be autonomous and be able to defend yourself.
05:19Again, now, what is that is not new, what is new is to say some of you are good fellows and we will support.
05:30And you have mentioned quotes, which are really incredible in this strategy, because a strategy is not a tweet.
05:38Normally, it's something that is a very thorough examination of long-term strategy of big states like the United States.
05:48And let's imagine that our French strategy or the EU strategy, we would say that, well, we have great doubts about the American civilization and we want to interfere to make sure that those who go in the direction we think good, we will support them by all means.
06:06I think audacious is the word that we would use quite aptly here in terms of who needs to win whose trust back.
06:15Does Europe need to earn America's trust in terms of defense or does the United States need to earn Europe's trust in terms of being a reliable partner again?
06:25Yes. And I think we must have trust in what we do.
06:31I think there is something rather difficult in the present narrative from Europeans is that, as President Tusk very clearly said, we would be able to fight and including to fight Russia by ourselves without the Americans.
06:48Tusk was very clear on that.
06:50I personally tried to also write some elements on this for the Brussels Institute.
06:56For the first time in its history, would Russia attack us, they would have all the European states that they had to fight in the past all together against an aggression.
07:08Then we are able to fight.
07:10And because we want to be able to do more and we need to do more, you hear a narrative saying that we are not able.
07:19I think we must be clear, we are able if we have to, but we will nevertheless improve our capabilities to have an even stronger defense, including against rather new forms of attacks, such as the hybrid cyber attacks.
07:39And we need to do more, but we are already formidable enough to deter any aggression, even without the United States.
07:47But I think what is really important now is that when we develop our capabilities, is that the objective should be to develop these capabilities with real non-dependence from the United States.
08:01And I don't know if the security strategy will be the necessary shock from some of our member states, but they see what dependence means.
08:11The weapons they are trying to develop will do just what the Pentagon wants them to do.
08:16That's quite interesting because it sounds to me like you're saying that Europe can, in fact, take a lead on NATO, just like the United States wants it to, according to the security strategy.
08:28I didn't exactly say that because I'm not sure that the solution is for Europeans to take the lead in NATO.
08:40We have to check whether NATO, which has been built for the American prevalence, the Americans being the leaders in NATO, could be efficiently transformed in an organization led by Europeans.
08:56For instance, the American ambassador in Berlin said, well, we should have a German secure.
09:03I don't know, I don't know, I rather well know NATO and NATO's functioning.
09:08It's very much built on this American backbone.
09:14Then should we take the lead in NATO?
09:17Many people think that.
09:18Another solution would be to take the lead in another format and make sure that our communication, our intelligence, our space assets would be independent assets, which is not today the case in NATO.
09:37What would you then suggest in terms of that kind of alternative if you're looking at what's happened around Ukraine today?
09:45I think that there's been a kind of natural reliance on those who can most and those who will do most.
09:58And you have the UK, you have Germany, you have France, you have other EU member states having very good historical knowledge of the situation, which are very important.
10:11And you have some actors with military capabilities and with military responsibilities at home that play an important role.
10:20You have, well, you have them on the screen.
10:23But you have the Brits, you have the Germans, you have the French.
10:26You can have others.
10:27It's not exclusive.
10:28But then being in the situation where we are, I think it's more for those personalities to represent what Europe can build and the role we can play for a peace settlement.
10:45Because it's our peace on our continent.
10:48It's not an American peace for us.
10:50It's our peace for Europeans.
10:52And I think we should rely on those member states or non-member states like the UK who are ready to take action.
11:01But nevertheless, sorry, but nevertheless, use the EU instruments we have.
11:07Just a quick one on that.
11:09What instruments in the immediate term?
11:11Well, I think we have two instruments in the European Union that we didn't use their potential on armament and capabilities.
11:23You have the European Defense Agency.
11:25I think it should really play a major role for cooperation because we are going to increase the national budgets.
11:34We do already do increase the national budget.
11:37But we will be successful only if we do it in cooperation.
11:41Then use the instruments you have for that, for armament and capabilities development.
11:47You have this European Defense Agency.
11:50Second, why don't we have permanent military headquarters with appropriate CIS, advanced planning, trained teams,
12:02which would be able to support any kind of either coalition or EU or national interventions that would be necessary.
12:14Then have headquarters.
12:16You know, headquarters, it's also, it's not only men.
12:19It's training, it's, again, communication and some capabilities that you need in advance for headquarters.
12:31And if it is a duplication with NATO, well, duplication are not useless.
12:36If we consider scenarios of major disruption or war, having two or three capable headquarters in Europe is just better.
12:46A very fascinating prospect, if that does come to fruition.
12:50Claude France, Arnaud, thank you so much.
12:52It will be interesting to see if this relationship can, in fact, be fixed as well.
12:57But Claude France, they're just discussing the possibility of European defense organization headquarters in Europe.
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