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00:00As well as starring in the poignant Christmas drama, Goodbye June, it is a very warm welcome back to Kate Winslet!
00:23Hello everybody!
00:25Hi!
00:26This is unlike you Kate.
00:28Well, I normally come a bit business-y and play it safe and I thought, you know what, it's Graham, I'm 50, I look amazing, go for it!
00:36Yeah!
00:41Is there a lot of talcum powder involved in this dress?
00:43Actually no, slightly wishing there was.
00:45OK!
00:46To be honest.
00:47Getting it off, you'll definitely wish there had been.
00:49I think so.
00:51So, welcome back to Kate, welcome back to Alan.
00:54And for the first time, Seth and Jacinda, lovely to see you both.
00:57That's right.
00:58Very good.
00:59You fulfilled your promise to me when you were a guest on my show.
01:01Somebody said I'd said that to you.
01:02Did I really say that?
01:03Oh my god, you can't even remember the promise you knew.
01:06No, yeah.
01:07You know, after you left the room, everybody said he won't remember a word he said to you.
01:11That's true.
01:12Yeah.
01:13But no, I'm glad I didn't break my promise.
01:15Yeah.
01:16Obviously I promised you'd be a guest on my show because I was a guest on your show.
01:18Yeah, and here we are.
01:19Here you are.
01:20I'm thrilled to be here.
01:21Well, no, we're delighted you're here.
01:22And Jacinda, gorgeous to see you.
01:23Well, do you know what?
01:24It's just lovely to have a New Zealander on the sofa rather than on the red chair telling
01:29a vile story.
01:30I will admit that when your producer called, I did clarify which seat I would be in.
01:35Yeah, it feels like it's part of national service in New Zealand.
01:40You must go abroad and tell a story about shitting yourself.
01:42When you leave, we check your passport.
01:44We check that you've got a good set of yarns.
01:46But it's something about New Zealanders.
01:49They do tell a good yarn.
01:51They really do.
01:52And, you know, they're shameless as well.
01:55There's that.
01:56And, Kate, there's a kind of New Zealand connection because you started your film career in New Zealand.
02:02Yes, I did.
02:03I did.
02:04The first film I ever did when I was 17 years old was filmed in New Zealand, directed by
02:08Peter Jackson.
02:09We were just backstage saying we're going to end up talking about Peter Jackson.
02:12Well, we are because before politics came a call in, you tried to work with Peter Jackson
02:17in New Zealand.
02:18I guess technically I did.
02:19I auditioned for...
02:20Did you actually?
02:21I did.
02:22Brilliant!
02:23I did.
02:24Half of New Zealand auditioned just to be...
02:27And half of New Zealand's dad, except for me.
02:30I did.
02:31I did.
02:32I did not be the Corbett.
02:33Too tall?
02:34What was the problem?
02:35That's what I told myself.
02:36I auditioned to be an extra as a hobbit.
02:38Oh.
02:39Because I lived, I grew up quite close to Hobbiton where they did all the filming.
02:45It's not a real place.
02:46It is.
02:47You didn't just believe it exists.
02:48I also believe it exists.
02:49Well, you're wrong.
02:50I know.
02:51I think it would have been fun if there was just one tall hobbit in the background.
02:58As I recall, they had a five foot seven, you know, ruler against the doorway.
03:04And as I walked in, I just...
03:06Yeah.
03:07I like that.
03:08A little bit of limbo.
03:09I did a little limbo and then I got as far as the forms.
03:12And I do remember they asked, can you ride a horse bareback?
03:17And can you joust?
03:19Oh.
03:20And I could ride bareback because New Zealand.
03:23But the jousting I fell shy on.
03:25Also, I don't remember any jousting in that film.
03:27There wasn't.
03:28There wasn't.
03:29Obviously, nobody, everyone went, no.
03:32That's not my fault.
03:33They needed at least two.
03:35Yeah.
03:36Now, Alan, I have to say, huge congratulations on Celebrity Traders.
03:40Oh.
03:41I mean, it was amazing.
03:42Oh, there you are.
03:43Woo!
03:44I love that picture.
03:45I love it.
03:46I did some extra filming for it and they went, oh, Alan, do the face when I put that.
03:53Dude, that's my face.
03:54That's not a face.
03:55Dude's a face.
03:56And I knew because I watched the first episode and my phone was pinging and like, you know,
04:03when you're in the middle aisle at Liddle, when you're going to Gregg's for the last
04:08sausage roll.
04:09I was being, yeah, manipulated.
04:12And I was thinking about, it's that thing, you know, you're on television a lot.
04:16And so you kind of think, I am known, but then being the star of the biggest show,
04:22the most talked about show, it must feel different.
04:25Yeah, I mean, people go, oh, Alan, isn't he funny?
04:27I've been on telly for 25 years.
04:29I must have been awful.
04:31But you know the funny thing and they never kept it in.
04:35And I just felt really proud, just like outwitting all these clever people.
04:39And Stephen Fry was at the round table and he went, who can the traitors be?
04:45Now remember the Cambridge spies?
04:47They were, they were flamboyant, they were camp, they were out there.
04:50But no one spotted them and I was obviously going, mmm, I know.
04:54And are you, are you tired of it yet?
05:00Or are you still?
05:01Sick of it.
05:02Well, you say sick of it.
05:04Oh, I know what you're saying.
05:05Yeah, we've got a clip of you out and about in Soho.
05:08Oh, please don't talk to me about celebrity traitors.
05:15When it pulls back, we'll see, he's even got the lamp.
05:27Listen, we've got lots to talk about tonight.
05:29Let's get started with Kate Winslet's new movie.
05:31It is called Goodbye June and it's in select UK cinemas
05:34from the 12th of December and on Netflix from Christmas Eve.
05:38And this, this is a proper Winslet production.
05:41You, you star and you direct.
05:43But I think the most fascinating thing is that your son...
05:46Yes.
05:47..wrote this.
05:48And what strikes me is it's not a story you imagine a 19-year-old
05:52guy would, would want to write.
05:54No.
05:55So my wonderful son, Joe, when he was 19 years old,
05:59he applied to a screenwriting course at the National Film
06:02and Television School.
06:03Look, there he is, he's so sweet.
06:04And he has always been very passionate and really good at writing
06:09and it's been a big part of his creativity.
06:11But that didn't necessarily mean that he was going to be able
06:13to write a screenplay.
06:14Yeah.
06:15So he did this six-month intensive course
06:17and he was encouraged by a fantastic tutor
06:20to just write from the heart.
06:23And the most significant thing that had happened in his life
06:25was the loss of his grandmother when he was 13, my mum.
06:28And he was just so struck and moved by how we all came together
06:33for her and because we all came from this one woman.
06:37And so he used that just as a loose inspirational backdrop
06:41and created a fictional story about a messy, complex,
06:45fictional family set at Christmas time.
06:48And so it's really a story about how a family do come together
06:53against sort of all odds in many ways,
06:55because there are lots of family dynamics at play
06:58that are quite challenging and they have to make it OK
07:02so they can make it good for this woman to leave them all behind,
07:06knowing that they're all going to be all right.
07:08And it was just an extraordinary experience.
07:11And he'd written this script and he handed it to me and he was like,
07:13oh, you know, I've written this thing and...
07:15It's probably not very good.
07:17You know, would you... Maybe you'll just read it.
07:19Just... And then lie if you think it's crap, you know.
07:21And I read it and it was very much not crap.
07:24Yeah. And I said, well, you've written a film
07:27and we're going to make it.
07:29And he's like, no, mum, don't do... No.
07:32Don't do that mum thing.
07:35And I said, no, this is what we're going to do.
07:38He worked on it some more and Netflix showed some interest
07:41and we're like, oh, my God, it's real.
07:43And I suddenly realised I couldn't let it go.
07:45And so here I am, 50 years old, and I'm now a female director.
07:49And I'm very proud. Well done, you. Very good.
07:55Well, the clip we have is you breaking the news
07:58about your mother's illness to one of your sisters,
08:01played by Toni Collette. Toni Collette, yeah.
08:03Hi. I'm actually teaching my holistic dance therapy.
08:06So I can't really chit-chat, but how are you?
08:08Yeah, Helen, listen to me.
08:09Oh, my gosh, Julia, this class is so incredible for grief.
08:12There's this one man whose wife died
08:14because she slipped on an Ikea catalogue
08:17and fell down the stairs.
08:18I mean, how tragic is that? She was naked.
08:21Helen, listen, please. Stop. Stop. Just listen.
08:23Mum's... Mum's gone back into hospital.
08:25What?
08:26Um, Connor just called me.
08:28Oh, my God.
08:29She couldn't breathe and they're just trying to figure out what's gone on.
08:31I'm just heading out the house now, just leaving.
08:33Oh, my God.
08:34Right now.
08:35OK, OK.
08:36OK.
08:37Oh, God, breathe.
08:38She's at the Princess Mary,
08:39but I do actually think you should come if you can.
08:40I think... If you can.
08:42I'll just come straight there.
08:43I'll just... I'll get a plane today
08:44and I'll bring some Florida water
08:46and sage to clear out Mum's room
08:48and some crystals for healing
08:49and I'll pick up some orange squash for her
08:51because I know she's not...
08:52Great. Bring some orange. Loves it.
08:53Bring some orange squash, definitely, yeah.
08:54OK, great. Listen, you just let me know
08:56what time you get in. Text me.
08:57I can't believe it, so...
08:58I mean, can you tell me...
08:59Bye, bye, bye, bye.
09:00Fuck me.
09:01APPLAUSE
09:07I mean, I'm going to tell you to go out there,
09:09you mentioned some of the other people in.
09:11Andrew Risberg, Johnny Flynn, Timothy Spall.
09:13Timothy Spall, yes.
09:14Dame Helen Mirren, I hear she had some reservations
09:17or some doubts.
09:18So, it all went through proper channels and agents
09:20and I spoke to her on the phone and I told her the story
09:22and I said it was written by my wonderful son
09:25and I was going to direct it and she was listening and listening
09:28and she said, darling, I do have to stop you
09:30because, actually, I've got two personal rules.
09:33I will not play someone with dementia
09:35and I won't play someone who has got cancer.
09:38And I said, OK, absolutely fine.
09:40Totally understand that, which I did.
09:42And I said, there's no need.
09:43I won't send you the script.
09:44She said, no, no, do send it.
09:45It does sound rather special.
09:47A week later, I get an email.
09:48She says, I'll break my rule.
09:50I'd love to support you.
09:51This is a wonderful, wonderful project.
09:54And we got Helen Mirren to be an author.
09:56And she's great in the film.
09:57She really is amazing.
09:58She's wonderful, yeah.
09:59And I suppose, as a director, you know,
10:01if you're directing people like Dame Helen Mirren
10:03and, you know, that must make your job kind of easier.
10:06But then, as you say, you...
10:07Did I shit myself is what you're saying.
10:09In a ditch in New Zealand.
10:11There's a red chair waiting for you.
10:13Let's not get onto poo.
10:14You always get me onto poo on this show, Brent.
10:17Come on, back in the room.
10:18Back in the room.
10:19But no, the grandchildren.
10:20There's a lot of very young grandchildren.
10:23Yes.
10:24I mean, directing them must be like sort of herding cats.
10:26Oh, directing children is the greatest joy.
10:30There's this thing of never work with children and animals.
10:33Working with children is wonderful because children,
10:35children bring the joy.
10:37And I also have a theory about kids.
10:39Unless they are incredibly, incredibly gifted,
10:42actually you can't teach children to act,
10:44but you can just show them how to be
10:46by creating an environment that feels really safe,
10:49really playful and encouraging.
10:50They were encouraged not to learn their lines.
10:53They were encouraged to make lots and lots of juicy mistakes.
10:56And I would sometimes say to them things like,
10:58now, you see that hospital bed over there?
11:00I've hidden something in that bed.
11:01And your job in this part of the story
11:03is to just find what I've hidden in there.
11:05Haven't hidden a thing.
11:06The children never knew that we were rolling cameras.
11:09And so they were completely natural all of the time.
11:11We would just use hand signals.
11:13And it was just amazing.
11:14And they loved it and they didn't want it to finish.
11:17And working with children, I mean, as you say,
11:19a lot of people say working with children is difficult.
11:21Jacinda, tell us when you discovered
11:25you were going to have a baby.
11:28The precise moment? The bathroom?
11:31Well, in New Zealand, election night,
11:37it's not always clear whether or not you have been successful.
11:40So in 2017, I somewhat unexpectedly became leader of my party,
11:46campaigned hard, and on election night,
11:49didn't know whether or not we'd managed to clinch government.
11:53So we went into a period of negotiations.
11:55And they take about two weeks, typically.
11:57I was about three days shy of those talks concluding
12:01and finding out if I was the Prime Minister of New Zealand
12:06when I found out I was pregnant.
12:08Is that actually true?
12:09That's actually true.
12:10Oh, my God.
12:11You're even more amazing.
12:13I'm really glad you've gone there,
12:15because you could say that's terrible planning.
12:17It was. It was.
12:20But women, we just get on with it, don't we? Come on.
12:22That's right, that's right.
12:24And it was just like that.
12:25You just had to take every day as it came,
12:27because then three days later, live on the 6pm news,
12:30the minor party we were negotiating with
12:32declared that I would be the Prime Minister.
12:34And it was only me and my husband that knew
12:36that I'd do it while having a baby.
12:38So even when you were being sworn in...
12:40Oh, my God, she is amazing!
12:42You are so amazing!
12:45When you were being...
12:46Well, I could probably add,
12:48she wasn't actually my husband at the time either.
12:50Even more amazing!
12:52I misheard and I thought you said
12:54it wasn't even my husband.
12:56Funny story.
12:59So it was awkward.
13:01It was awkward.
13:02Hilarious.
13:03But you weren't able to tell people
13:06by the time you were being sworn in.
13:08No.
13:09No, no.
13:10And at that point,
13:11by the time I was being sworn in
13:14and we had then a very official regal ceremony
13:17at Parliament,
13:18to open up Parliament
13:20and the Governor-General comes in
13:22and gives a speech from the throne.
13:24And for that moment,
13:25she faces all of Parliament
13:27and then I sit next to her on this side facing out,
13:30the Leader of the Opposition here,
13:32the entire Judiciary,
13:34the leaders of the Armed Forces,
13:36very, very regal.
13:38And the entire time,
13:40I'm thinking,
13:41I'm absolutely going to throw up.
13:43And I'm clocking where my exits are.
13:46I even started thinking,
13:48would anyone believe I just had a bad kebab?
13:54But thankfully,
13:55thankfully I got through
13:56and I got through 20 weeks
13:57without telling people.
14:00Wow.
14:01That's amazing.
14:02A lot of flowy blouses.
14:05And because Seth,
14:06your wife,
14:07it wasn't morning sickness,
14:09but on your wedding day was nearly spoiled.
14:11Yeah, she had food poisoning
14:13and we were at our rehearsal dinner
14:16and then she felt terrible
14:18and she said, I don't feel well.
14:20And I said, it's,
14:21trust me, it's just wedding jitters.
14:23That thing when, like,
14:24a man with no experience
14:26just is very certain
14:27of what's happening.
14:29Having gone to zero days
14:30of medical school,
14:31I'm like, trust me,
14:32it's just wedding jitters.
14:33You're very nervous about marrying.
14:34Yeah, yeah, yeah.
14:35And you have every right to be.
14:37No, but she's like,
14:38I think I have food poisoning.
14:39I'm like, I promise you,
14:40it's just jitters.
14:41It's wedding jitters.
14:42And then, you know,
14:43we did sleep in separate beds
14:44at different places
14:45the night before our wedding
14:46as per tradition.
14:47And then in the morning,
14:48I called her,
14:49I'm like, so how are you doing?
14:50She's like, I am in the emergency room.
14:51I do have food poisoning.
14:54But it was the one thing
14:56that was so lovely
14:58is that we had,
14:59she really wanted to do
15:00a rehearsed first dance
15:01and we're both really
15:02terrible dancers.
15:03And we had, like,
15:04gone to a whole, like,
15:05dance class with a, you know,
15:07personal instructor.
15:08And even the instructor
15:09who started by saying,
15:10look, anyone can be a dancer
15:12as long as you're in love.
15:13And at the end of the first hour
15:14was like, hum.
15:18And I remember, like,
15:19the night of, you know,
15:20at the wedding
15:21because she did tough it out
15:22and, you know,
15:23it was on an IV
15:24and she rallied
15:25the way women do.
15:26And she goes,
15:27I just don't think
15:28we can do the first dance.
15:29And I remember being like,
15:30oh, thank God.
15:32Thank God you ate a bad oyster.
15:36Because, Alan, where were you?
15:37Was it Mexico?
15:38I got Montezuma's Revenge.
15:39Have you heard that?
15:40Yeah.
15:41Oh, my God.
15:42What did you do?
15:43What did you do to Montezuma?
15:44I know.
15:45Listen, it was so bad.
15:46And this sounds like a made-up story,
15:48but it's true.
15:49Have you heard of Palenque
15:50where all the Inca monuments are?
15:52I felt, oh, my God,
15:54I'm going to ship myself.
15:56And then I ran and got some water
15:58and as I came out the bushes,
16:00there was a marathon there
16:02and a woman ran past,
16:03took my bottle of water
16:04and tipped it over her head.
16:06She thought I was one of those people.
16:07Yeah.
16:08Oh, no.
16:09I was so dehydrated.
16:11And can I say,
16:12Hotel Capri in Acapulco,
16:14they refused to give me more toilet paper.
16:17Oh!
16:18Oh, no.
16:19That's not nice.
16:20No, Mr Khan.
16:21No, Mr Khan.
16:22No, please.
16:23Indeed.
16:24Do you remember that finger boy?
16:25Because it was...
16:26Do you remember the finger boys?
16:27The finger bus is coming.
16:28The finger boys.
16:29I think we're saying the finger boys.
16:30The finger boys.
16:31That I saw at Montezuma's Revenge.
16:33I thought he said finger boys as well.
16:34The other one.
16:35You're the one.
16:36The other one.
16:37The other one.
16:38Use this.
16:39I remember just laying next to the toilet
16:43and it was coming out both ends
16:45and I was just staring in.
16:46How could it get worse?
16:47And then this party boat came round.
16:49The finger boys are coming.
16:51Fuck you.
16:59Kate, we must also remind everybody
17:01that we'll be seeing you soon
17:02in the third instalment of Avatar.
17:04Correct.
17:05Yes.
17:06This one's called Fire and Ash.
17:08I know.
17:09It doesn't look anything like me.
17:10Every time I see myself and I'm like,
17:12oh, that is actually me.
17:13No.
17:14But they do make you go and do it.
17:15Yes.
17:16Yes.
17:17Absolutely.
17:18But you can tell it's me from my top lip, I think,
17:20and because they've kept my beauty mark,
17:22which is nice.
17:23I mean, it's not animation.
17:24It's proper motion capture.
17:25Yeah, no, it's real.
17:26But this time, no holding breath underwater.
17:28No, there was quite a lot of that as well still.
17:30Oh, really?
17:31And there was a bit of underwater fighting in this one.
17:33But I can't really say anything.
17:34You're going to have to see it.
17:37Well, people can find out on the 19th of December.
17:40Avatar, Fire and Ash is on the 19th December.
17:42And don't forget Kate's film Goodbye June.
17:44That is in cinemas from next Friday.
17:46Very good.
17:47Now, Jacinda Ardern brings us a truly extraordinary documentary
17:56about her time in office.
17:58It's filmed over seven years.
18:00It's called Prime Minister and it's out in cinemas today.
18:03And before we talk about it, here's just a taste of the trailer.
18:08I think I have natural levels of anxiety for someone who's 37
18:11years old and who's also pregnant.
18:15Every time I got on a plane, I would look out a window
18:18and I would think, from that mountain to that river,
18:20that is my responsibility.
18:22Oh, this is normal.
18:25I have three years to do as much as we can.
18:28But in the back of my mind, I thought,
18:30how am I going to do this with a baby?
18:33I just feel sorry for myself listening to that
18:36because I just have no idea what's coming.
18:38Absolutely no idea.
18:40There were two groups on the island,
18:42those who were evacuated and those close to the eruption.
18:45We only have six cases at the moment.
18:47This can only be described as a terrorist attack.
18:51Crises make governments and they break governments.
18:55If things went wrong, it was my job to fix it.
18:58Wow.
18:59It obviously turned into this amazing story,
19:08but as you said there, you didn't know what was coming.
19:11So when you started filming this at the beginning,
19:13all those years ago, what did you think the film was going to be?
19:17Not this.
19:18That's for sure.
19:19My now husband is a broadcaster
19:23and so when he was in close proximity
19:26to all of these things suddenly happening,
19:28he thought, well, I should capture this.
19:31And I think only he could have, you know,
19:35helped create what it now is
19:37because I would never have otherwise let someone film me
19:40as consistently in my pyjamas
19:43or my bathrobe or at home and behind the scenes.
19:48And it's created, I hope, you know,
19:51a story that shows what it's like to lead
19:54and I hope also a story that says
19:56that you can lead differently
19:58than perhaps the way we see in the world today.
20:00Yeah.
20:01I mean, after that, there are times when you're quite tetchy.
20:03There are times when you wish Clark would stop.
20:05You make that sound like that doesn't happen often.
20:08It's the bulk of the film.
20:11Yeah, and that's because we never had any intention
20:13about what would happen with the footage.
20:14You know, I was doing, in New Zealand,
20:16we have this great project
20:18where archivists call politicians and interview them
20:21and they've been doing it for decades.
20:23So I was recording these interviews
20:25and that was another reason he thought,
20:26well, I'll put some footage in as well
20:28but without a clear idea of what would happen with it.
20:30Yeah.
20:31And I think that was positive too
20:33because otherwise I would,
20:34I don't think I would have been as open otherwise.
20:37Yeah.
20:38And so, obviously, the thing that kind of brought you
20:40global attention was your response to COVID,
20:42where you shut the borders, the quarantine,
20:44you got it down to zero cases.
20:45Yeah.
20:46And initially, obviously,
20:47incredibly popular in New Zealand.
20:48You had this landslide election victory.
20:50Yes.
20:51Yeah, we did.
20:522020, it was almost,
20:53the election then was almost like a,
20:55like an election in the middle of a,
20:57of a war of sorts.
20:58That's how it felt in some ways.
21:00And so it was an unprecedented,
21:03um, victory,
21:04but it never felt like victory.
21:05I kind of thought,
21:06okay, people want us to keep going.
21:08And so we did,
21:09but it got harder.
21:10Yeah.
21:11I mean, we were certainly aware
21:12of what New Zealand was doing here.
21:13In America, were they aware of...
21:14Very much so.
21:15Really?
21:16You know, people were lucky enough,
21:17I think,
21:18everybody wanted to go there.
21:20You know?
21:21That was the place everybody wanted to be.
21:23And, uh, yeah.
21:24I mean, certainly we were jealous.
21:25Any time, you know,
21:26you saw a ticker
21:27that there was a country with zero cases,
21:29that seemed like a job well done.
21:30Yeah.
21:31You know, the New Zealand,
21:32Immigration New Zealand website
21:33after a couple of particular elections
21:35in the U.S. has crashed.
21:39I would imagine.
21:40Yeah, people looking into it.
21:41Everybody was like,
21:42are they doing, can I be an extra?
21:43Are you still looking for a hobbit?
21:46And so it began,
21:47it began very well
21:48and people in New Zealand
21:49were happy with what you were doing.
21:50And then as time went on,
21:52cracks began to appear.
21:54We've got a second clip
21:55from the documentary.
21:58I just don't understand
21:59how anyone could assume
22:02that I'm so cavalier
22:03about having a hob city
22:05and over a million people in lockdown.
22:07Of course,
22:09I think about it all the time.
22:11I have to take sleeping pills
22:12so I don't think about it all the time.
22:14I don't think about it all the time.
22:15I don't think about it all the time.
22:20My question is to the Prime Minister.
22:22Does she accept estimates
22:24that New Zealand's economy
22:26will shrink by 10% this year
22:29while Australia's will fall by less than 5%?
22:32Mr. Speaker, as I've said,
22:34I've heard a range of...
22:36She doesn't!
22:38I'm sorry.
22:40Simon Bridges yelled across the house,
22:42she doesn't do the economy.
22:44They wanted to punch him in the face.
22:48And the...
22:50I mean, the answer might be obvious,
22:52but why was that comment so annoying?
22:54You know, because at that time,
22:55of course, we were focused on both
22:57and our view was that a response
22:59on COVID that focused on keeping people alive
23:02was also the best response
23:03for the economy as well.
23:04I should add,
23:05I'm not a violent person.
23:06LAUGHTER
23:07And I'm not a violent person.
23:09LAUGHTER
23:10I'm not a violent person.
23:12LAUGHTER
23:13I'm not a violent person.
23:15LAUGHTER
23:17And we did get through,
23:19and so many of the things
23:20that they predicted may happen,
23:22we managed to prevent.
23:23It was hard,
23:24but I still feel proud of that.
23:25And negative voices began to get louder,
23:27and there is still this very kind of
23:29vociferous group in New Zealand
23:31who feel very strongly about you.
23:33What went wrong?
23:35What was the tipping point?
23:37I think, you know,
23:38one thing, and again,
23:39of course, we all take responsibility
23:41for our own time in politics
23:43and in office,
23:44and so I say this next thing
23:46not to diminish that,
23:48but I think we have seen
23:49politics globally shift gears,
23:52and I think we have seen
23:55politics, you know,
23:56carry a lot more grievance
23:57from individuals,
23:58and it's in some ways
23:59become more violent and aggressive.
24:01So, you know,
24:02I don't think it was just
24:03any one leader
24:04that has experienced that shift.
24:05It has shifted.
24:07And yet, in amongst all of that,
24:09I do think we're in a moment in time,
24:11and I think in response to that moment in time,
24:14my plea is for people to not give up on an expectation
24:17that politics can be better.
24:20Expect decency in politics,
24:22expect empathy and kindness in your politics,
24:24and I do think that we'll return to that as well.
24:26I hope that bitterness never comes to the stage.
24:29Yeah.
24:31Yeah.
24:32And, and,
24:33Cassandra...
24:35Are you worried that this documentary,
24:38anyone watching it will think,
24:39dear God, I'm never going into politics?
24:41I do get asked the question,
24:43would you ever recommend it to a young person?
24:46Absolutely, I would.
24:47And, you know,
24:48look, the documentary captures the big moments.
24:51Yeah.
24:52But there was so much joy in between.
24:54So much joy.
24:55What other job, if you're, you know,
24:58if you're a do-gooder like I can be sometimes,
25:02where you see a problem in the world
25:03and you've got the power to do something about it,
25:05what other job do you get that gift?
25:07So, I would absolutely recommend
25:10politics to good people,
25:13and we need more good people in there.
25:15So, don't shy away.
25:17Are you going to go back into politics?
25:19No.
25:20No.
25:21I mean...
25:22It's a great job.
25:24Do as I say.
25:26Do as I say.
25:28To be fair, I did it for 15 years.
25:31OK, fair enough.
25:32You started very young.
25:33Yeah, thank you.
25:34How young were you when you got into politics?
25:35I was...
25:36Well, when I went into Parliament, I was 28.
25:38Wow.
25:39So, I feel like I did my show.
25:41All right, all right.
25:42And now it's for the next generation.
25:44Listen, it is a fascinating watch.
25:46It really, really is.
25:48Cindy's documentary Prime Minister is in cinemas now.
25:51OK.
25:52Right.
25:53We turn to Mr. Seth Meyers, the award-winning host of Late Night with Seth Meyers.
26:02You can see it here in the UK on weekends on CNBC.
26:06So, based on that, you don't watch it.
26:09Well, I...
26:10C.
26:11N.
26:12B.
26:13This can't be right.
26:14C.
26:15An artist.
26:16C.
26:17T.
26:18Channel.
26:19I was thinking he sounds like a children's channel.
26:21Yeah.
26:22Well, thanks for the support, Graham.
26:25It's also available on YouTube.
26:26Yeah, yeah.
26:27That's easier, yeah.
26:28If you go to America, you can be on it.
26:29Yeah, yeah, yeah.
26:30Perfect.
26:31Worked out for you.
26:32Yeah, yeah.
26:33It's a celebrity talk show.
26:34It is.
26:35It is a celebrity talk show, like this.
26:36But once a year, Seth Meyers, you break your booking policy.
26:40Oh, yes.
26:41I have my...
26:42Well, once a year on Thanksgiving, it's very hard to book, obviously, on Thanksgiving.
26:46And so, when I started my show, I started with my parents and my brother are on every year.
26:50And it's very lovely.
26:52But then this year, we went a little bit further and I had my children on the show, who are young.
26:57They're nine, seven, and four.
26:58Wow.
26:59And I did not tell them they were going to be on the show.
27:02I gave them no warning because I thought they would get stressed.
27:05They were actually in the building to take their Christmas card photo.
27:07And I just sort of low-key said, let's just have three microphones ready.
27:11And we pre-taped it a week early.
27:13But after our first guest that night was Cynthia Erivo.
27:16And the kids had finished their photo.
27:18And I go, just come out.
27:19Daddy's going to ask you some questions.
27:21And it was six minutes.
27:24It's the most white-knuckle interview I've ever done.
27:26From the bottom of the hook clip, here's Seth and the Meyer children.
27:30Yeah.
27:31Well, how did you guys, did you get here in a car or a subway, Axel?
27:35Car.
27:36Subway.
27:37You took the subway?
27:38Addy.
27:39We came at different times.
27:41You came at different times?
27:42Addy, did you like the subway?
27:44Yeah, the subway smells like diarrhea.
27:54So cute.
27:55Yeah.
27:56You see, children bring the joy.
27:59That sounds really good.
28:00Children bring the joy.
28:01My oldest was the one who was the most, I think, had the most anxiety about doing it.
28:05And as we walked off, he just like took my arm.
28:07He goes, that was great.
28:08We should do it again soon.
28:10Very much.
28:11And they just like, God, the bug.
28:13Is that the son who thinks he's going to inherit the show?
28:15Yeah.
28:16My son said to me once, he goes, Dad, I have a question.
28:18I said, what's your question?
28:19He said, when you die, do I get your show?
28:22And I'm like, based on the diarrhea answer, your sister gets the show.
28:27And I said, before the talk show, in America, you were very famous because of, of course, Saturday Night Live.
28:33Yeah.
28:34There you are.
28:35I think we could have a man with my friend Amy Poehler.
28:38Amy Poehler.
28:39Kate was on when I was on the show.
28:40Oh, my God.
28:41Can I just say, when I was on, it was absolutely terrifying.
28:43I think it's terrifying for everybody.
28:44Am I allowed to quickly tell the story?
28:46Yeah.
28:47Even though this is totally unplanned?
28:48No, go.
28:49When I was on, it was the week after Ashley Simpson was done for lip syncing, right?
28:54Yes.
28:55I'm then on with Eminem, OK?
28:57I was doing publicity for a film called Finding Neverland at the time.
29:00And Johnny Depp and I had to miss the Wednesday rehearsal because we had to go to Chicago and talk to Oprah.
29:05And I'm thinking, oh, my God, what's the opening monologue going to be?
29:08I get to Wednesday night, come back from the Oprah thing.
29:10Still, they're like, well, we're just, you know, trying to figure it out.
29:13I'm like, just please tell me.
29:15It's, you know, it's a couple of days away.
29:17Just what you're going to have me do.
29:19The next day, I go in and they're like, can you sing?
29:22And I said, a little, you know, ish, kind of.
29:25Do you dance?
29:26I'm like, I mean, yeah, like, do you tap dance?
29:28I'm like, yeah, yeah, I do.
29:29They're like, perfect.
29:30I'm like, so what's the opening monologue?
29:32I'm like, we'll get back to you.
29:33I'm like, oh, my God.
29:34Now what's happening to me?
29:35This is absolutely terrible.
29:37They gave me 24 hours to learn.
29:39Nothing's impossible.
29:40I have found for women.
29:41I'm tap dancing and singing fully live the week after the whole Ashley Simpson thing.
29:47And also, I have to say something else.
29:49And this is a story I've never, never told.
29:51Eminem asked me to shave his bottom.
29:53There's always a muck.
29:54There's always, like, a poo bum theme for me when I come on this show.
29:59Was it with a hand-held razor?
30:01Well, he did.
30:02He said, would you shave my butt?
30:03And I said, I'm sorry, I don't do personal grooming.
30:06Like, what?
30:07I'm not going to go with a bick and get your crackler.
30:11Honestly, that's my, never told that story before ever in my life in public.
30:16There you go.
30:18And can I say, should have said yes.
30:21Well, the door's open.
30:22Should have said yes.
30:23No, no, no, no.
30:24Once she said no, I did say yes.
30:26No, no, no.
30:28I was early in the show.
30:31I would do anything.
30:32Was that, is that typical?
30:35That hosts get stuff really late.
30:37Yes.
30:38It speaks to the legacy of the show that people keep sort of opting into the terrifying week
30:42that it is.
30:43But I think if you were, you know, if we didn't have kind of a little bit of fear,
30:46I think, like, even you, like, we wouldn't, we wouldn't do any of this
30:49because I think the fear motivates you.
30:51Why are you looking at me like that?
30:53I don't know what you're talking about.
30:54He looks terrifying.
30:55Look at the terror, look at the terror in his eyes.
30:58I think, you know, it motivates you.
31:01I lost fear in about 1997.
31:04We did have a, we used to say, like, whenever a host wasn't nervous,
31:09we knew the show was about to be a disaster.
31:11Hello.
31:12We won.
31:13Honestly.
31:14Exhibit A.
31:15I was married, I was married to Sam Mendes at the time, Joe's dad,
31:19and I said to him, please don't, please don't come.
31:21Just, just, just don't, it's really fine.
31:24I don't need you to come.
31:25He's like, no, okay, fine.
31:26He bloody well came.
31:27I walked through the doors at the back, and I go, like this.
31:31And all I see is Sam sat there going, shh.
31:35I'm about to tap dance and sing.
31:38Oh, my God, it was really horrifying, actually.
31:40It was horrifying.
31:41And your connection with SNL continues, because you do a podcast.
31:44Yes.
31:45The...
31:46Yes, with Andy Samberg, Kate's co-star in Lee.
31:49Oh, yes.
31:50Good old Andy.
31:51Yeah, he's wonderful.
31:52He's wonderful.
31:53He was in Lee with you, yeah.
31:54Yes, he was indeed.
31:55He's a great guy.
31:56And Andy Samberg, is he your friend?
31:58He's one of my oldest, dearest friends, yeah.
32:00But what's the thing, and I don't want to make you sad,
32:03but I know your dog died.
32:05Yeah, my dog, 14 years old, frisbee, yeah.
32:08And Andy Samberg, he hated that dog.
32:11Yeah, so...
32:13He hated my dog, and he met my dog when she was a puppy,
32:17and he said on the day he met her, she's an ugly rat dog.
32:20And then every single time he came on my show,
32:23he basically would just say,
32:24how's frisbee, that piece of shit?
32:26No, he would love to say that.
32:28Yeah, no, look, he's a bad guy.
32:30But he basically doubled down and doubled down.
32:33I mean, having your kids on, I guess, yeah.
32:39The dog, I will be honest, the dog was not as electric as the kids.
32:45But it was like Andy leaned into the...
32:48He's not even looking at you.
32:49No.
32:52Yeah, no, frisbee wasn't a good desk.
32:53But he really just doubled down on the comedy of hating my dog.
32:57And then I kept saying, like, you know, this dog is 13 years old,
33:00and do you think you can weather the storm of hating a dog that recently passed?
33:04And he goes, I'm going to ride it out.
33:06And then I will say, when frisbee passed away, I called up Andy,
33:10and I'm like, well, that awkward day has come.
33:12And he's like, I'm really sorry, how are your kids?
33:14I'm like, everybody's OK.
33:15He's like, OK, I am going to still publicly say she was a rat dog.
33:20And the New York Times, it was the...
33:22I mean, I have it framed because the New York Times wrote an article that said,
33:24Seth Meyers' dog and Andy Samberg's nemesis passes away.
33:29And I'm like, I cannot believe the most famous thing about my dog is that you hated her.
33:34Because, Alan, you've got a new dog.
33:37Yes, yes, I've got a rescue dog and she's completely deaf.
33:41And she was meant to be a guard dog and, of course, she's dumped and she's deaf.
33:45So they gave me a lead which says, I am deaf on it.
33:48So I'm walking round the park and people are going, what's her breed?
33:52And I know the dog is deaf.
33:58And I start mouthing the dog.
34:04She's got, like, a bright collar because she's got no recall.
34:07She's got bells.
34:08It's like taking a UFO for a walk.
34:11She's glowing all around running the park.
34:13I don't know how I would react differently knowing a dog is deaf
34:17as a person just walking past you in a park.
34:19That's deaf for cheese for dogs.
34:22Oh, OK.
34:23What?
34:24That's what the woman said.
34:25Cheese.
34:28That's deaf.
34:29That woman said that's deaf for deaf dog.
34:30Cheese.
34:31OK.
34:32That's deaf for dog.
34:33Yeah.
34:34That's all you would say to your dog is cheese.
34:36Is that to send her out to the store?
34:38Cheese.
34:41Also, it seems like if the dog wants cheese,
34:43they would need to sign it to you.
34:45Look, it's a new dog.
34:48Don't give me stress.
34:52I like that's the one word.
34:53I know.
34:54I'll give you cheese.
34:56You can work out the rest yourself.
34:58There you go.
34:59You'll be fine.
35:00Seth, it is so great to have you on the couch.
35:03I'm so happy to be here.
35:04Don't forget, you can watch Late Night with Seth Meyers
35:06Weekends on CNBC.
35:08Oh, wow.
35:09You know.
35:10I'm on it.
35:11I'm on it now.
35:12You know.
35:13Yeah.
35:16Meanwhile, Alan Carr is back on the road for his new tour.
35:20It's called Have I Said Too Much?
35:23But we should say, tickets are on sale, I think, today.
35:26Yes.
35:27But it'll be a while before they can go.
35:29Yes, 2027.
35:31I'm a slow writer, I'm a slow writer.
35:36Do you know what I was going to call the show?
35:38National Traitor.
35:40Ooh.
35:41But, you know, I've got to stop milking it.
35:44I've got to let it go, ain't I?
35:47I bet if I die, I'll be like, oh, look, there's that bloke
35:50who wore that cloak.
35:51That's what they're going to say.
35:53So, you know.
35:54Better than being Andy Samberg's nemesis.
35:56Yeah.
35:57Now, you last tour to go all over the world.
36:00Did you end up in New Zealand?
36:01Yes.
36:02New Zealand, Australia.
36:03Now, what's that hotel in New Zealand which you can bungee jump
36:07off the top?
36:09Oh, that's in...
36:10That's in Auckland.
36:11Oh, it's in Auckland.
36:12It would have been...
36:13Was it the Sky Tower?
36:14Yes.
36:15They can bungee jump off the top of the hotel.
36:17I'm there unpacking.
36:19I'm seeing people screaming.
36:21Ow!
36:23Ow!
36:24And then I see them come back and I'm like,
36:26how shit is this hotel?
36:28Oh, my God, I wanted a double bed.
36:31So, yeah, I mean, I always stay there.
36:36It must be the Sky, yes, yes, yeah.
36:38So, I always go everywhere and, um, yeah, I love it, I love it.
36:43There's no theme.
36:44There's only a bit about me being single but traitor stuff and stuff.
36:47I never have themes, I just...
36:49When my notebook is full of jokes, I just go on tour.
36:52I just do it every three years.
36:53I love it.
36:54I just love the freedom of it all.
36:55Yeah.
36:56And, obviously, people will want you to talk about, uh,
36:58celebrity traitors.
36:59And were you...
37:01No offence, but were you as surprised as everyone else
37:04when you won?
37:06When I laughed in their face...
37:09LAUGHTER
37:10I'm a faithful!
37:12LAUGHTER
37:13I really thought when I go round that table,
37:15they're all just going to say, Alan, Alan, Alan.
37:17Yes.
37:18But they didn't.
37:19Are they stupid?
37:20LAUGHTER
37:21Are they so stupid?
37:22And then I started crying because it was Nick Muhammad's face.
37:26He was like, we got this, we got this.
37:29And I'm like, no, I've got this.
37:31LAUGHTER
37:32Have any of you seen this, the celebration?
37:35I've not seen this season, no.
37:37I saw the eight-minute sizzle reel.
37:39Me too, and I saw Celia Emery fart.
37:42Oh, my God.
37:43I was changed to her.
37:44I couldn't move.
37:49And we have to talk about Paloma,
37:51because she did not find it funny.
37:53No.
37:54No.
37:55Has she got over it?
37:56She had, and I saw her yesterday,
37:58we did some silly sketches and stuff like that.
38:00But, you know, like I said to her,
38:02I said, it's a game, it's called The Traitors.
38:04It's like going on, like, you know,
38:06what's it called, Naked Attraction,
38:08and saying, what, I've got to take my knickers off?
38:10LAUGHTER
38:12We've got a picture of you and Paloma last night.
38:14Oh, wow.
38:15Oh.
38:16Oh, my God.
38:17I think I know who you're being.
38:19LAUGHTER
38:21I'm so excited.
38:22I could not get that foundation off.
38:25I'm looking at...
38:26OK, we are friends.
38:28That's just smiling.
38:29It's Claudia Winkleman.
38:30Great.
38:31Yeah.
38:32You know what?
38:33I had a feeling.
38:34LAUGHTER
38:35I've got a question.
38:36How do they, as a TV show,
38:38how do they inform you that it's going to be you
38:41before the show?
38:42How does that all happen?
38:43Oh, no.
38:44You sit there.
38:45OK, I'll show you, yeah.
38:46Go on.
38:47Oh, my God, he's doing the action!
38:48You're blindfolded.
38:49OK, go on.
38:50There we go.
38:51Yeah, blindfolded.
38:52LAUGHTER
38:53She's so light on her feet.
38:54Yes.
38:55Like a cart horse.
38:56Yeah, yeah.
38:57Yeah.
38:58Ah.
38:59That's what happened.
39:00That's what happened.
39:01Yes.
39:02Did you not nearly have a heart attack?
39:03Well, you clearly haven't seen it.
39:05I went...
39:06LAUGHTER
39:07LAUGHTER
39:08I nearly chewed from my lip with panic.
39:11LAUGHTER
39:12That's so intense.
39:13You already have a really cheap white wine.
39:15LAUGHTER
39:16And do you really not know before that moment at all?
39:19No!
39:20No!
39:21No, and you don't know who it is and then you go into the turret and you go and there was
39:25Jonathan Ross there and Kat.
39:27And then I watched it back and I didn't realise how loud I was.
39:30LAUGHTER
39:31Because I'd done my first murder and I said to Jonathan, I've done it.
39:35LAUGHTER
39:37Do you realise how loud I am?
39:40Inside voice.
39:42LAUGHTER
39:43I think we need a new hitman.
39:45LAUGHTER
39:46And it's going to be loads for you to talk about in your new show, so get writing it.
39:51A reminder, tickets for Alan's upcoming tour of I Said Too Much are on sale now.
39:57Hey, it is time for music and this Mercury Prize nominated singer-songwriter also murdered her way to the final of Celebrity Traitors.
40:04Here performing There's Just Something About Her.
40:07It is Kat Burns!
40:09CHEERING AND APPLAUSE
40:14Let me tell you about a girl, I don't really do this but I can't keep it to myself.
40:25She turns every head in the room, oh God, she's something else.
40:29I lose all my composure, this ain't nothing but I felt I need some help.
40:35Cause I'm not sure how you do it in my thoughts.
40:43Intrusive, living away, freeing my mind.
40:51There's just something about her, I can't put my finger on it.
40:56But every time she looks at me, can't help it, I just panic.
41:00There's something about her, and I wonder if she knows it.
41:04Cause I lose all ability to talk, it's like she's magic.
41:08There's just something about her.
41:10What you're doing to me, something about her.
41:14You feel like a movie, I just don't understand.
41:18You're so perfectly made, it's like God, she had a plan.
41:23Have I missed my chance with you? You must be in demand.
41:27I'm trying to keep it cool, but I'd do anything I can.
41:31I must not sound like a fan.
41:33Cause I'm not sure how you do it in my thoughts.
41:37Intrusive, living away, freeing my mind.
41:49There's just something about her
41:51I can't put my finger on it
41:54But every time she looks at me
41:56Can't help it, I just panic
41:58There's something about her
42:00And I wonder if she knows it
42:02Cause I lose all ability to talk
42:05It's like she's magic
42:06There's just something about her
42:08Something about her
42:12There's just something about her
42:16You do something to me
42:26I lose it like a groupie
42:28You do something to me
42:30I'm never like this usually
42:32You do something to me
42:34I lose it like a groupie
42:36You do something to me
42:39I can't put my finger on it
42:43But every time she looks at me
42:45I can't help it, I just panic
42:47There's something about her
42:49And I wonder if she knows it
42:52Cause I lose all ability to talk
42:54It's like she's magic
42:56There's something about her
42:58Something about her
43:02There's just something about her
43:06There's something about her
43:10Oh yeah
43:12Oh yeah
43:12There's something about her
43:14There's something about her
43:20Oh yeah
43:23Oh yeah
43:26Kat Burrbs everybody
43:28and her band
43:30Beautiful job
43:30Come on over to Kat
43:32Thank you so much
43:34How are you
43:35Are you serious?
43:36Oh yeah
43:36She's gorgeous
43:36Thank you very much
43:37Hold up
43:38You know Alan
43:38Set
43:40Jacinda, Kate, Mrs Pat.
43:43Hello, lovely to meet you.
43:45Oh, very carefully.
43:47Congratulations.
43:49That sounded so good live.
43:51Thank you very much.
43:52That is the single, There's Just Something About Her,
43:55and that's from a new album, How To Be Human.
43:57Yes. Yeah, which is out now, right?
43:59Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
44:00And you talked about this album and saying,
44:02oh, it is about heartbreak, but you didn't want it
44:05to be a sad album.
44:06No, I mean, the album's about grief and heartbreak.
44:09I lost my grandad last spring, and I think I wanted to
44:14showcase the first year of what grief can look like.
44:17And I remember watching a video of Andrew Garfield,
44:20and he said that grief is just love with no home,
44:23and I just thought that was really beautiful,
44:25and I was like, I need to make a project based on that.
44:29And then that's how it came to be.
44:30So it's sad, but it's also hopeful at the same time.
44:33I saw that Andrew Garfield.
44:34It was on... That was on Stephen Colbert, wasn't it?
44:36Yeah. In America, on the American Dog Show.
44:38Yeah.
44:39So here you are together, Cat and Alan.
44:42And now...
44:44I feel bad talking about celebrity videos again.
44:47I feel like I'm torturing you three.
44:49You're kind of like, oh, dear God.
44:51Alan did say, please don't bring it up again.
44:53Maybe just one more time.
44:55LAUGHTER
44:56There's a cloak behind the sofa.
45:00LAUGHTER
45:01So, that moment when you both voted for Jonathan to be banished,
45:07had you talked about that beforehand, the two of you?
45:10Well, I think I was running with the big dog theory,
45:14so I was like, if I don't...
45:15The fucking big dog theory.
45:16Yeah.
45:17Jesus.
45:18LAUGHTER
45:19Once Stephen was gone, I was like to Jonathan,
45:22I'm going to have to do you, and he was like, I know.
45:24So it was...
45:25I got to say something, but I don't...
45:26I think it was probably a shock that you did it.
45:28I didn't know what I was doing.
45:31LAUGHTER
45:32I didn't know.
45:33I was just pleased I got the name spelt right.
45:35Yeah, I mean, really.
45:36It was such a bad advertisement for strategy.
45:39LAUGHTER
45:40And they were sitting there going,
45:41these traitors are so clever, you know, the way...
45:44We were just like...
45:45We didn't know what was going on.
45:47LAUGHTER
45:48We didn't know what was going on, but, yeah.
45:49Uh, Kat, you were going on tour.
45:51I am in April.
45:52Wow, so soon.
45:53Unlike your friend.
45:55LAUGHTER
45:57You can buy tickets and remember you've got them.
46:00LAUGHTER
46:01Actually, next spring.
46:02Yeah.
46:03And some of the tickets are gone or about to be gone.
46:06Almost, so get your tickets now.
46:08Yes!
46:09Kat, good luck with the tour.
46:11Thank you very much for being here.
46:12Thanks for that great performance.
46:13Thank you for being here.
46:14Kat Burns, everybody!
46:15CHEERING AND APPLAUSE
46:18And that is it for tonight.
46:20No time for red chairs, I'm afraid.
46:22So please thank the rest of my guests, Alan Cobb!
46:24CHEERING AND APPLAUSE
46:26Seth Meyers!
46:28CHEERING AND APPLAUSE
46:30Jacinda Ardern!
46:31CHEERING AND APPLAUSE
46:32And Kate Winslet!
46:34CHEERING AND APPLAUSE
46:36Join me next week with music guest Jade, fashion guru Edward Ennful, comedy genius Rowan Atkinson,
46:43double Oscar winner Emma Thompson and Hollywood superstar Timothee Chalamet.
46:47I'll see you then.
46:48Good night already.
46:49Bye-bye!
46:50CHEERING AND APPLAUSE
46:55Go behind the week's headlines with unexpected guests, satirical silliness and mischief with
47:00Andrew Hunter-Murray.
47:01Listen to Friday night comedy The Naked Week, now on Sounds.
47:04Go toark.
47:17APPLAUSE
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