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00:00How many times in your career did you guys ever get confused for the Verve?
00:03I think we were in Omaha and there was a little girl, she's four years old,
00:06and she made this beautiful, elaborate sign, bittersweet symphony.
00:10We thought about covering it, which is not a bad idea now.
00:15Rock, metal, prog, and everything in between.
00:18Welcome to this episode of Talkin' Rock with Meltdown.
00:22Don't forget to follow the audio-only Talkin' Rock podcast on all podcast platforms.
00:26And now, it's time for today's conversation.
00:30Here's Meltdown.
00:31Brian, good to see you again. How's things, man?
00:33Oh, everything's great. Living the dream, living in a basement.
00:38As you can see.
00:40Yeah, no, it looks great. That's a good-looking basement, I might add.
00:43You know, my daughter lives down here. She's 15, so she loves it down here
00:47because she's got her own bathroom, and I love it down here because she's down here.
00:50Yeah.
00:5115-year-old daughter, that's right. You stay in the basement all you want, honey.
00:54I know, and I got a 24-year-old, and my friends always tell me,
00:56they go, don't want your kids to move out?
00:58And I'm like, I like when my kids are there. I don't mind them being around.
01:01I like when the kids are around, too.
01:03But, you know, every once in a while, Daddy's going to have a date,
01:06and he needs the kids to get the hell out.
01:10Yeah, there you go. Fair enough.
01:11Well, you're coming to town here, District 142, on December 12th.
01:15Chris Barron from Spin Doctors, of course, yourself.
01:18John Hampson from Nine Days, and J.R. Richards from Dishwalla.
01:22I never met him, but the newer singer in Dishwalla was kind of funny.
01:26Last summer, I think it was, or 2024.
01:28I don't know if you've ever had this happen to you,
01:30but I was supposed to introduce the guys from Dishwalla on stage at 9 o'clock,
01:34and there were so many sound issues and so many things going on.
01:37They didn't go on stage until 10.30 at an outdoor fair-type setting.
01:42That doesn't surprise me a bit, man.
01:44It's a rock and roll.
01:45That's just the way it goes.
01:47So what are you going to do?
01:48Yeah.
01:49So you're going to do this story of a song thing.
01:52Now, tell me about this.
01:53What do you know about this night here, December 12th at District 142?
01:57Well, we've done it three, I want to say four times now, Chris and I,
02:01and we were with Vinny from Sponge, but Vinny wasn't available this time,
02:05and also John Hampson, of course.
02:08It's a blast.
02:08The four of us just sit on the stage at the same time,
02:12and Chris will play Little Miss Can't Be Wrong and tell a story about it,
02:18and we'll sing backup harmonies and stuff,
02:21and then next will be JR playing Counting Blue Cars or any of his other songs,
02:27and we'll do the same thing and tell the story behind the songs.
02:31And I tell you what, each person plays about three or four songs,
02:35and it's a great night.
02:36It's a lot of laughs.
02:38Chris Barron's, you know, I don't know if you've ever interviewed him before or whatever,
02:42but he's hilarious, man.
02:43He's got so many great stories.
02:45And really, after the first one, he elevated everybody else's stories.
02:49It's like, okay, we get to talk about anything we want.
02:51And so, you know, I threw a few people under the bus, you know, and got big laughs,
02:58and, you know, it's just an absolute blast to do it, man.
03:01It's one of my favorite shows to put on these days, you know, so.
03:05Yeah, that's great.
03:06And so I didn't know all you guys were up there at the same time.
03:09I thought maybe you guys took turns, but all you guys are up there just kind of yucking it up
03:12and just kind of having fun.
03:13Yeah.
03:13So the laughs start, you know, backstage before we even go on, you know.
03:19I mean, there's a good two hours where we're just cutting up, and then we're like,
03:23hey, we should try this tonight.
03:24We should try this.
03:25And then once we get out there, it's like a Broadway show.
03:30That's unscripted, if you can imagine that.
03:34So it's a blast.
03:35People really seem to love it.
03:37That sounds awesome.
03:38So, yeah, like I said, that comes up at District 142 on December 12th.
03:42Have you been to a district yet since it opened three years ago?
03:45I have not.
03:46I have not.
03:47But I know the people behind it, and they're good people.
03:49Yeah.
03:50Yeah, Julie and I have done a great job over there, and that's a really cool room to see a show in.
03:56Yeah, I'm looking forward to it.
03:58I saw some pictures online.
03:59It looks awesome.
04:00It looks perfect for this kind of thing.
04:01Now, you said you've done this before.
04:03Where have you done this?
04:04We did it on Long Island.
04:05On Long Island is the way they say it, I guess.
04:08On Long Island.
04:09And the first time, yeah, about a year ago, and that was fantastic.
04:14Packed house, you know, about 1,000 people show up to that.
04:17And then we just did, oh, my God, we just did three more of them recently.
04:22I can't even think of where we were.
04:24I'd have to look at my calendar and play so many shows.
04:27Have you been playing a lot of shows?
04:29Oh, my God, it's been crazy.
04:30Yeah, last year I played almost 200 shows with the Verve Pipe and Solo and speaking gigs as well.
04:37Next year looks pretty good, too.
04:39So, you know, things are going great.
04:42What kind of speaking gigs do you do?
04:44I talk about, you know, refocusing and rebranding and reconnecting and because, you know, the Verve Pipe, we had an album called Underneath that was our big comeback after our terrible album we put out after the freshman album.
05:01And, you know, it was released on 9-11.
05:05And so how do you come back from that?
05:07And so, funny enough, it's all the financial industry people that love to have me come in.
05:13So, you know, I'll do UBS and Bank of America conferences and that kind of thing.
05:18And the reason they like it is because most times they get athletes to do it.
05:22But I go in, I tell my story.
05:23I've got a funny slideshow of the times we opened up for Kiss and that kind of thing, you know, and how ridiculous that was.
05:29And then I'll play a couple songs as well.
05:32So it really is about just refocusing and rebranding your business, you know.
05:37And it's, you know, I've done, yeah, I've done 300 or 400 of those now.
05:41Wow.
05:42It's going really well.
05:42It's going well as well.
05:43Tell me about opening for Kiss.
05:45I don't recall that.
05:45What year was that?
05:47That was when they first put the makeup back on in 1996.
05:51So they got all the original members back together.
05:53Remember the first one was at Tiger Stadium.
05:55That was with STP, right?
05:59And Sponge.
06:00And Sponge, that's right.
06:01It was with Allison Chains because Stone's Stone Pile Sky Wilding was at rehab or something.
06:06That's right.
06:07That's right.
06:08And so after that one, we jumped on tour with them and did 30 dates all over the southern states.
06:15And then we flew to Europe with them.
06:17And that was a terrible gig, dude.
06:20Let me tell you something.
06:21I mean, Detroit was probably not a good example of what it was like, but nobody knew who we were.
06:28You know, we didn't have, the freshman wasn't out.
06:30I think Photograph was just released.
06:32So nobody knew it.
06:34So imagine 20,000 people in any given city are so excited that KISS is getting back together with the original members of putting the makeup back on.
06:42It's going to be the spectacle.
06:43And 20,000 people buy tickets and 20,000 people drive to the arena and wait for two hours to see KISS in the arena.
06:49And then the lights go down.
06:50And 20,000 KISS fans roar in anticipation of finally seeing KISS and the lights come up into some stupid band you've never heard of.
06:59We were that band, my friend.
07:01They were not nice to us at all.
07:03And I learned right away never to fear another crowd for the rest of my life.
07:07It was a great, great experience for that reason.
07:10I'm never afraid of another crowd.
07:12Yeah, I remember Jerry Cantrell one time told me that Alice in Chains earned their bones on that Clash of the Titans tour.
07:19I don't know if you remember that with the Slayer and Anthrax and Megadeth and Alice in Chains was hardly, you know, they barely had a song on the radio at the time.
07:27Yeah.
07:27I guess you guys earned your bones on that KISS tour.
07:29We did.
07:30The funny thing is, is like, you know, Gene Simmons was great.
07:33He came backstage almost every show before, I mean, to our dressing room to talk to us.
07:38And I think he got a real kick out of us for whatever reason.
07:42And anyway, so he would give us encouragement.
07:44But after that first show, you know, we were so excited.
07:47We're on the side of the stage going, oh, my God, can you believe this?
07:49We're opening up for KISS.
07:50I was a huge KISS fan.
07:51And then when I stepped out on the stage and was, you know, with rain of booze and, you know, coins thrown at us, I was like, oh, no, this is what this is for 30 dates, you know.
08:04And Gene came back afterwards and he put his arm around me and he said, you know, don't don't take it to heart.
08:10Every single band that opens up for us gets booed unrelentlessly or relentlessly.
08:16And I was like, dude, that's something that we could have known before we signed on for 30 dates.
08:21But, you know, listen, the experience we got to go from being in a van to being in a tour bus following KISS around the country and then flying with them over to Europe.
08:30That part of it was great.
08:31Everything was great except the 30 minutes on stage.
08:34What did you do for the final show?
08:37Tell me you painted your face or something.
08:40Oh, my God.
08:40I've got it up on my YouTube page.
08:43So here's what I did.
08:44I cut out some big styrofoam teeth, fake teeth, and I did a Freddie Mercury impression.
08:51And I took my shirt off and I put a white towel on him and I sang acapella.
08:56I sang We Are the Champions to 20,000 Booing Germans.
09:00And that was the night that KISS said we could use the big video screens.
09:06And I knew it.
09:07And that's why I was like, I'm going to do something spectacular.
09:09And so I did that on the big video screens.
09:11And there was a look at one point on my face of pure joy.
09:16I was laughing at myself.
09:17I was just like, this is just, this is glorious to me right now.
09:21That it was just an F you to everybody that ever went to the KISS shows.
09:26So you can check that out on my TikTok.
09:28It's also up on my YouTube page.
09:29That is hysterical.
09:30So, I mean, the 15-year-old, 12, 50-year-old Brian Vander, our KISS fan, has to just be beside himself.
09:37Now you're on stage opening up for a band that you've watched since you were a kid and the fans are booing.
09:42Yeah, exactly.
09:43And here's the other thing that, you know, a lot of people dress up like KISS in the audience, a lot of the guys.
09:49So you're out there and you've got 5,000 Gene Simmons and 5,000 Ace Freelys booing you.
09:56And they're all, you know, flipping you off at the same time.
09:59Talk about a surreal moment.
10:01Yeah.
10:02Jerry Cantrell told me when they were on stage at Tiger Stadium, you weren't at that show, were you?
10:06I wasn't, no.
10:07So when they were on stage at that Tiger Stadium show, he said, Lane, you know, because like you said, everybody's dressed up like a member of KISS.
10:13And at one point, Lane Staley looked over at him and said, how come no one's dressed like us?
10:16Yeah.
10:17How come nobody's dressed like Alice in Chains?
10:20That was so funny.
10:21Jerry had this guttural laugh and he goes, man, that dude was so funny.
10:25Did you ever get a chance to meet Lane Staley?
10:27Never.
10:27And that's the thing, you know, 30 years in this business, I've met, you know, a handful of people.
10:33I mean, you really, everybody tours so much.
10:35And the only time you get to see anybody is at radio festivals.
10:39That's when you get to see everybody and hang out.
10:41And, you know, I wasn't a big fan of radio festivals because, you know, fans of Dunkin' Chic, you know, I mean, like fans of Skinny Puppy don't want to sit through a Dunkin' Chic set, if you know what I mean.
10:53You know, but still the best part of the radio fest was backstage.
10:57It was always a blast.
10:58Always a blast.
10:59It's funny because sometimes I talk to some of my friends in bands and I've met more rock stars than they have because of that fact.
11:04You guys are all.
11:05That's true.
11:05Yeah.
11:06That's true.
11:06And when I have a night off, the last thing I want to do is go to a show.
11:10I typically don't go to a show.
11:11I don't care if Paul McCartney's down the street and it's only 100 people.
11:15There's a good chance I'm not going to go see Paul McCartney.
11:18Come on.
11:19It's a good show.
11:20I mean, man, a lot.
11:21Okay, possibly.
11:23Hey, this is kind of a weird, far-out question, but how many times in your career did you guys ever get confused for the Verve?
11:30Every day.
11:31I was going to say, yeah, that had to be a commonplace thing, huh?
11:34No, no, it still happens every day on TikTok and I get tagged in all the Verve stuff.
11:39I get tagged, you know, we had people hold up signs that say, play bittersweet symphony.
11:46No, no, for real.
11:48And it's just like, I remember one time, I think we were in Omaha and there was a little girl, she's four years old, and she made this beautiful, elaborate sign, bittersweet symphony.
11:56And I'm just like, oh, I just wanted to call her parents out and say, what is wrong with you?
12:03Now, we've thought about covering it, which is not a bad idea now.
12:06Maybe we'll just cover it from now on.
12:09Oh, my God.
12:10That's so funny.
12:11All right, another crazy question for you.
12:13And I don't know what your connection with this is, but were you guys ever influenced by the Tragically Hip?
12:20Because you kind of have a little bit of a Tragically Hip vibe.
12:23I take that.
12:23I'm a fan.
12:25No, I haven't heard that one.
12:27I haven't heard that one.
12:28Yeah, great band, though.
12:29Great band.
12:29Yeah, because I can kind of hear the bands kind of intertwining, intermeshing just a little bit.
12:35Obviously, they're obviously, you know, Canadian and stuff, and you guys are from Michigan.
12:39But I was just curious if you'd ever, because they were around since the early 1990s.
12:43Yeah, same.
12:44And we would cross paths on occasion as well, and we've got to perform with them and see them as well.
12:49Great band, but no, we don't usually get that.
12:52I've never heard that before.
12:53Okay.
12:54It doesn't mean it's not valid.
12:55Right.
12:56No, that's a compliment, because I'm a hip fan for sure.
13:01So people that are outside the state probably don't know, but, you know, you've worked with Jeff Daniels and stuff here.
13:07And, of course, you guys are a Michigan institution.
13:09Jeff is as well.
13:11Tell me about working with Jeff.
13:13Oh, it's fantastic.
13:13He reached out to me after he saw a documentary my friend made on my house concert series called Lawn Chairs and Living Rooms.
13:20I played over 800 house concerts since 2008, and we made a documentary, and he saw it.
13:27He loved it.
13:28He contacted my agent, and then we became fast friends, because, you know, I knew he was a player.
13:33I said, we should write together, and we wrote a couple Virg Pipe songs together, and then we decided to go in and make an album together.
13:39So we made an album of storytelling songs called Simple Truths.
13:43And, in fact, I'm going to see him next week.
13:45You know, we've maintained a great friendship.
13:47You know, his home in Chelsea is like the Kennedy compound.
13:52I mean, he's got his kid.
13:55He's got one half of the lake, practically.
13:57He'd hate it that I'd be telling you this.
13:59But he's got, you know, his two sons that live on the compound with their wives, and I think his daughter's the only one that doesn't live there.
14:07But his grandkids, everybody's there.
14:09It's like the Kennedys over there.
14:11And the guy's a great dad, man.
14:14I've gone to him to ask advice on things, and he's, you know, he's fantastic, because all those kids are really, you know, they're not typical celebrity kids.
14:23You know, they're really grounded.
14:24Well, he's really grounded, too.
14:25He's a Michigan guy, you know.
14:27Yeah, I think a lot of his groundingness, if that's even a word, just comes from the fact that he's never really kind of left here.
14:33Yeah, he decided to stay here and not do the Hollywood thing, and he made Hollywood come to them.
14:38And listen, when you're that talented, the guy can do anything.
14:42When you're that talented, that's the way it should be, for sure.
14:45Yeah, that's great.
14:45You just brought this up, playing in people's living rooms and stuff.
14:48I was going to ask you about that.
14:49That's an ingenious idea.
14:50I didn't realize how many you'd done, but tell people about the experience of playing in people's living rooms.
14:55People just contact you via your website or agent, or how does that work?
14:59Yeah, so it started out just, you know, we were down and out.
15:03It's now my ex and I, but, you know, we didn't know where the money was going to come from.
15:08And I had a fan reach out, and she said, hey, I wonder if you'd come play my birthday party?
15:14And I'm like, I'm kind of a rock star.
15:18You open up for a kiss?
15:20Yeah, yeah, exactly.
15:21And she's like, yeah, I'll pay you $5,000.
15:24I'm like, what?
15:25Okay, no problem.
15:27And I went, and it was awesome.
15:28She had her living room set up with 50 folding chairs.
15:31All of her family and friends were there.
15:33I was sitting in front of the fireplace.
15:34I played an hour's worth of songs.
15:37You know, she got to choose all the songs.
15:39And I left there, and I was like, I had a check for, you know, $5,000 in one pocket.
15:44And I had, you know, $500 in cash and merchandise sales.
15:46And I'm like, I've got, you know, 20,000 people on my mailing list.
15:52They all have birthdays.
15:54That's $20 million or whatever, you know.
15:56I ran myself into the street or into the ditch.
16:00But then I sent an email out the next day.
16:01I just said, look, it's really hard to get booked.
16:03It's really hard.
16:04The music industry, you know, people were file sharing back then, you know.
16:07So book me into your home.
16:09We'll cut out the middleman.
16:10And I got, I sent that email out.
16:12And within 24 hours, I booked 52 shows.
16:15And this was in 2008, yeah, where nobody really was doing house concerts.
16:19I'm not saying I invented the house concert, but it wasn't as popular as it is now.
16:23And I was like, oh, my God, here's something.
16:25And then the next year, I realized that I only have a guitar.
16:28I don't have to travel with a sound system.
16:30So I ended up booking 110 shows the next year, you know, in the summer months alone,
16:35just going and doing two or three a day on the weekends.
16:38And I did that for years.
16:41And, you know, a lot of times you knock on the door.
16:42Most times a knock on the door, and I don't know who's behind the door because I've just
16:46been going back and forth on email.
16:48And my manager hated the idea because he was like, you know, somebody could say there's
16:52going to be 50 people there, and you're going to get to a place, and it's just going to
16:55be a one woman in a wedding dress or something, you know.
17:00But then she wants you to play the same song over and over and over.
17:03And I was like, no.
17:04But that never happened.
17:05So it was an excellent button.
17:06As long as the check clears, I suppose you play to whoever's there, right?
17:10100% accurate.
17:11That is 100% accurate.
17:12So I stopped doing them now.
17:14I don't do them nearly as much just because of the resurgence of the band and a lot of
17:19great stuff's going on.
17:20But I do them when I can, do private shows.
17:22Now, have you done stuff with the Detroit Rebbing alumni?
17:26Oh, yeah.
17:26Many times.
17:27Joey, you know, Joe Kosar is a great guy.
17:31He asked me to come play his golf tournaments, and then I play in his softball league, you
17:36know, his team, to raise money for the Joe Kosar Foundation.
17:40He and McCarty, all those guys have been buddies for years now.
17:42I started doing that back in 2005 or 2006.
17:45That's an absolute blast, too.
17:47And I'm not the hugest hockey fan.
17:50I mean, I like hockey enough, but years ago, I had to decide which team.
17:54I was watching too much sports.
17:55I'm like, all right, I'm going to pick one Detroit team.
17:59And this is 30 years ago.
18:00And I'm like, I'm going to pick the Lions.
18:05And, of course, last year and the year before, I'm like, hey, it's finally paying off.
18:09And this year, I'm like, ah, damn it.
18:11Yeah, well, as we record this, tonight could be a do or die for them.
18:14And, by the way, as we record this today, it's Vinny's birthday, by the way.
18:18Don't forget.
18:18Oh, dude, it is.
18:19I got to text him.
18:21Thanks for that.
18:21Thanks for that tip.
18:22I got to upload Vinny a tip there, a text.
18:25So, all right, tell you what, Brian, last thing here.
18:27I told you before we started, I talked to one of your friends from the movie
18:30Rockstar.
18:30For those that don't know, you were in the movie Rockstar with Mark Wahlberg and Jennifer
18:34Aniston.
18:35And my friend is Blaz Elias.
18:37I was just with Zach Wilde, by the way.
18:39I was just with Zach and Darren McCarty a couple weeks ago, as a matter of fact.
18:42But I didn't talk to him about Rockstar, I don't believe.
18:44But Blaz sent me a text.
18:47He says, to tell you, he says hello.
18:49And he says, how did you get the song Colorful in the movie?
18:51And I just rewatched that clip with Mark and Jennifer and stuff.
18:54So, tell us about that.
18:56Yeah.
18:56So, they sent me a script and wanted me to write a Seattle-esque kind of freshman-like
19:01ballad.
19:02And so, I read the script.
19:04The movie at that point was called Metal God, because it was about Judas Priest.
19:08Yeah.
19:08And then Judas Priest wanted $50 million or something.
19:11And so, they're like, well, we're just going to take Judas Priest out of it and make our
19:14own movie and make up our own bands.
19:16Smart move, Hollywood.
19:18And so, I read the script.
19:20And I was like, oh, this guy's got, you know, two different personalities.
19:23Sometimes he's this.
19:24Sometimes he's that.
19:25And that's why, you know, I ended up with a chorus of sometimes I'm colorful, sometimes
19:29I'm gray.
19:30And then I sent the song, the demo, out to, oh, actually, I auditioned.
19:35I brought the demo with me and I auditioned to be in the movie.
19:37I have a small part in the movie as well.
19:39And by the time I got picked up to the hotel, the director said, wow, this is awesome.
19:44I love this, which is always a great sign when the director calls you that day.
19:48And then I didn't hear anything for three months.
19:50And I was like, I've done enough auditions and stuff that I know.
19:53If you don't hear anything within a couple of weeks, it's done, you know, you're out.
19:57And then all of a sudden, I got this script at my door and it was called, it was a movie
20:00called Rockstar.
20:02And I'm like, looking at this, I'm like, this is kind of familiar.
20:05And I'm thinking, oh, what do they want for me?
20:07Do they want rock and roll music?
20:08And then I look in the back of the script and they had printed my lyrics in the back
20:11of the script.
20:13And I was like, I called my manager.
20:14I'm like, they freaking stole the song, dude.
20:17And he goes, hold on, hold on, let me find out.
20:20He made a couple of calls and he told me, I got the part.
20:22Nobody told me, you know, because production hadn't started yet.
20:26And I was like, all right, well, thank God.
20:28So that's how it ended up in the movie.
20:29And Mark Wahlberg championed that song.
20:32He loved the song.
20:33And I remember when I first met him, he told me how much he loved it and he was learning
20:37it.
20:38And he said that he's going to make sure that there's a lot of the song in the movie.
20:43Like, you know, not just going to be a minute.
20:44It's going to be a couple of minutes or maybe the whole song.
20:47And man, he was true to his word.
20:48What a great guy.
20:49He really, he really stuck up for that tune.
20:51And so I, it's been, it's been a long time since I, I've seen Blas.
20:55I saw him.
20:56We went to see Chris Angel in October of 29 in Vegas.
21:00And he told me the story where he, he, they were in the parking lot, I guess, flyering
21:05cars in the movie, you know, rockstar.
21:07And he said he had his hand up on the car and somebody slammed his door, his hand in
21:10the, in the door.
21:11You know what I'm talking about?
21:12Oh no, I didn't even know that happened to him.
21:14Yeah.
21:14And so, and so this is the story I will be jealous of Blas for the rest of my life.
21:18But, uh, he says he, he just kind of kept his hand there until they said cut.
21:22And as soon as he said cut, he did, you know, he, he, he, he said Jennifer Aniston bandaged
21:28him up.
21:29Oh, perfect.
21:30Oh, bitch.
21:31I mean, that's perfect.
21:31Right.
21:32She could bandage me up anytime, bro.
21:34My God.
21:34Yeah.
21:34Let's not, yeah.
21:35Let's not talk about Jennifer Aniston.
21:36We'll be here for six hours, but, uh, no doubt.
21:39We'll tell Blas hi if you, uh, text him back, you know?
21:42Oh yeah, for sure.
21:43Blas is the best.
21:44Yeah.
21:44Awesome.
21:45We had such a great time.
21:46I introduced him to Chris Angel, who I'd never met either before.
21:48And, uh, Chris kind of held off the show until he met Blas.
21:51It was really cool.
21:52Actually.
21:52Nice.
21:53Yeah.
21:53Well, Blas is not only a great drummer, but Slaughter was an amazing band.
21:57And then, you know, Blas played with Blue Grant, Blue Man Group for years.
22:00And so he's, he's a terrific guy.
22:02Now I think it's with TSO, right?
22:03Yep.
22:04Yep.
22:04Every single winter he's out in TSO.
22:05That's where he is right now.
22:06So that will definitely pass that along.
22:08Well, Brian, we'll cut you loose here.
22:09The, uh, a story of a song, District 142 on December 12th with, uh, Chris Barron from
22:15Spin Doctors, uh, yourself, John Hampson from, uh, Nine Days and J.R. Richards from Dishwalla.
22:21Dude, it's been fun.
22:22I'll catch it up with you.
22:22And, uh, I love the laughs and, uh, I can't wait to do it again sometime soon.
22:26Thanks, buddy.
22:27Thanks for having me on.
22:28Appreciate you.
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