- 6 days ago
Emmy-nominated actor O-T Fagbenle sat down for the latest episode of The Hollywood Reporter’s Emerging Hollywood to discuss growing up biracial, landing his role in Hulu’s ‘Handmaid’s Tale,’ toxic masculinity, portraying President Barack Obama in Showtime’s ‘The First Lady’ and representation behind the camera.
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00:00Hollywood is being rebuilt by artists not afraid
00:04to disrupt the status quo, telling fresh stories,
00:08and bringing to life characters who, until now,
00:10have been confined to the margins.
00:12This is Emerging Hollywood.
00:17All right, today I'm sitting down with Emmy-nominated actor
00:20and also writer and director O.T.,
00:23and I'm not pronouncing your last name.
00:24Now, we did practice of it, man.
00:25I'm not doing it.
00:26Fag Ben-Lay. You got it.
00:27Go, give it. Give it. Fag Ben-Lay.
00:29Fag Ben-Lay.
00:30Yeah, that's pretty good.
00:31That's what I'm gonna say.
00:32Fag Ben-Lay.
00:37Now, what is O.T. show for?
00:39So, my full name is Ola Tsunde, Ola Teju,
00:41Ola Olung, Fag Ben-Lay.
00:43So, that's a, it's a Yoruba name.
00:45Wow.
00:46Named by my grandfather and my father,
00:47and it's kind of like, in Yoruba culture,
00:50you're often, like, named according to the circumstances
00:52of your birth, or you're named as, like,
00:54a prophecy into what your life may become.
00:56Wow, so your folks growing up called you O.T.
00:59Yeah, I was always called O.T.
01:01It was kind of like, it wasn't even to make my name easier.
01:04I don't know, they were just kind of creative people.
01:06And so, I just got called O.T. and it kind of stuck.
01:08You're biracial, born in London,
01:10but you spent time in Nigeria and Spain.
01:13How did that shape your childhood, all those different cultures?
01:16Yeah, you know, it was really interesting,
01:17because we just moved around.
01:19I have a very nomadic family, so we just moved around a lot
01:21when I was a kid.
01:22And to some extent, you know, like, we lived poor in Nigeria,
01:27and we lived quite affluently in Nigeria,
01:29and then I was the only black kid in the school in Spain,
01:31and the only white kid in the school in Nigeria.
01:34Wow.
01:35And so, all of those kind of, yeah, shape, like,
01:38oh, there's a real diversity the way I'm viewed in this world
01:41and in the different ways people live, too.
01:44So, you're considered white in Nigeria?
01:46Basically, yeah.
01:47I mean, it would be very common for, like,
01:49I go down to the basketball court.
01:50Even now, I went to the basketball court last time I was in Nigeria,
01:52and they were like, pick the white guy, pick the white guy.
01:55He's good, you know?
01:56And I had one friend of mine,
01:58well, a new friend I met on the basketball court tell me,
02:00listen, just because God made your skin white,
02:03it doesn't mean you're not a Nigerian.
02:05And I'm like, what are you talking about, dude?
02:06Like, I said, you know, in England,
02:08if I was walking down the street,
02:10someone would see me and you walking together
02:11and be like, look at those two black guys.
02:13Absolutely.
02:13He said, what, you are me?
02:15Look at your hair.
02:16Look at your skin, you're white.
02:17Wow.
02:19They don't know black people.
02:19Of course, they gotta know black people
02:20come in so many different shades, like.
02:22Yeah, but you know, it's an interesting construct
02:24if you're half black, half white.
02:26What are the things that make you white or black
02:29from someone's perspective?
02:30I think from an American perspective,
02:31where you have the one drop rule,
02:33well, if you've got one drop,
02:34then the slightest bit of tan on you,
02:36the slightest fullness of your lips,
02:37well, then you're black.
02:39But from a Nigerian perspective,
02:40for some Nigerians that is,
02:42if you have any shade of white in you,
02:45that makes you oimbo, you're a foreigner.
02:47And so, yeah, it was a really interesting
02:50perspective shift to go.
02:51And then, of course, I go to South Africa
02:53and I'm colored there.
02:54Black people are like, oh, there's colored people,
02:56colored people are like, that's black people.
02:57It's a whole separate thing.
02:59So, yeah.
03:00Oh, so in South Africa, colored and black,
03:02the two different things?
03:03You know, in America, colored is a black person.
03:05Absolutely.
03:06Really?
03:06Yeah, I mean, especially in Cape Town,
03:08you know, you have the Cape Coloreds.
03:10And they are multi-generation mixed race people,
03:13biracial people, you know, my great-great-grandfather.
03:15And so, and it caused a lot of division.
03:19I mean, this is some of the way that apartheid South Africa
03:21rules for so long as, you know, divide and conquer.
03:23But anyway, the point is, is that, you know,
03:26whether I'm in America and I'm African American,
03:28if I go to South Africa or I'm colored,
03:30if I'm in Nigeria, I'm Oimbo, it kind of goes,
03:33OK, so my racial identity is really informed
03:37by who's looking at me.
03:38Ooh.
03:38How did that impact you as a kid?
03:40I think it gave me a sense that who I was had
03:44to come from inside of me.
03:45I mean, I was, I guess you could say, relatively,
03:48I was really into black history as a young person,
03:51as a teenager.
03:52My sister kind of taught me about Angela Davis,
03:55sold out brother, Black Panthers, you know,
03:57Malcolm X, you know, the nation.
03:59And so I guess I was really enthused Egyptian history,
04:03really interested in that.
04:04But I think at the same time, I was aware
04:06of the construct of race and the way that other people,
04:10especially people who want to oppress us,
04:13will use that to help define me.
04:14And it was important that I also helped define myself.
04:17Were you afraid of anything growing up?
04:20I mean, yeah.
04:22I mean, like, as a kid, you're afraid of lots of things.
04:26I mean, I guess I faced a fair amount of rejection,
04:28especially in my early years, you know, feeling,
04:30like I said, to some extent in Nigeria,
04:32being somewhat of an outcast, and in Spain as well,
04:36you know, so I think that sense of social rejection
04:39and not fitting in was something that I faced.
04:43When did you get a sense of self-validation?
04:45Like, when you realized you didn't need the opinions
04:48of other people to feel comfortable with yourself?
04:51I mean, listen, give me a call when I've got there, please.
04:53Because it's something I'm still working on, brother.
04:56It's a process, no, for real.
04:57You know, I mean.
04:58I call it getting to a place of worthy.
05:00Worthy, yeah.
05:00And I think for me, I'm 43.
05:02I didn't get there until I was like 40.
05:04You know, it's a constant process.
05:07It's kind of like, you know, they say, oh, be present.
05:08Be in the now, right?
05:10Well, you have to practice that every day.
05:12You know, it's not something you achieve.
05:13And then, OK, for the rest of the time, I'm now in the now.
05:15And so, sure, you know, I'm consciously trying
05:18to live in gratitude, trying to live in the present,
05:20and trying to know my self-worth in a way that's
05:25disconnected from my achievements, disconnected from,
05:28you know, press and success or an award or a TV show
05:32or something like that, and it's hard because, as an artist,
05:36you define yourself so much by your art,
05:39and so it's a weird juxtaposition.
05:42What kind of emotional support did you
05:43get from your parents?
05:45You know, I mean, I was predominantly brought up
05:47by my mom, and she is a very powerful, strong woman.
05:52She was very supportive, but at the same time,
05:54watching her, watching her deal with adversity
05:56and the strength and courage that she did that with,
05:58that was very informative, you know.
06:00Did your parents' relationship as a child affect
06:03your relationships as an adult?
06:05Oh, yeah, I mean, and who they are as people as well.
06:08And, you know, I've got to say, both my mom and dad,
06:11they're really inspirational, charismatic people.
06:14As I got older, I was kind of realizing,
06:16oh, that's my mom in me in this relationship,
06:18and that's my dad in me, and then trying to,
06:20trying to have an objective view of like,
06:22OK, well, who do I want to be?
06:23What are the best parts of them I can take,
06:25and what are the parts of me that I want to develop?
06:27You know, you got into music and acting at a young age.
06:30You played the saxophone, performed Shakespeare.
06:33What would you say was your first introduction to the arts?
06:37I wanted to play the saxophone.
06:38At the end of The Muppet Show, there's the guy,
06:40he goes, bah, on the big saxophone.
06:41I was like, that's me at 10 years old.
06:43That's me, bro.
06:44The school I was at in Spain, they were like,
06:47they had a jazz band, and they were like,
06:48all right, so we're going to do this tour,
06:50and we need an extra saxophone player.
06:52So before I learned any scales, before I learned anything,
06:55the first thing I learned to play was Glenn Miller.
07:00But they needed me to play yesterday,
07:02so we didn't have time to do the basics.
07:04I just, so I never really learned to play,
07:06learned to read music.
07:08So what I would do is I'd sit there with my sax,
07:10and I'd wait till the other people picked up their saxophones,
07:13and, OK, it's time to play,
07:14and I'd play the thing that I'd learned.
07:15So what happened was I learned to play intuitively
07:19and by ear more than I did by the notes,
07:21and to some extent, I think that's some of how I do my acting now.
07:25Did you know when you were young
07:27that this would become your career?
07:29No, I wanted to be a basketball player.
07:30I wasn't tall enough or, frankly, good enough,
07:32although it breaks my heart to say it.
07:34But I was better at acting than I really was at anything else.
07:38When did you realize that?
07:40I think about 18.
07:41I applied to drama school, and RADA,
07:43the drama school I went to,
07:45they take 16 boys, 16 girls,
07:48and they audition 2,000 people.
07:50So when I, and by the way, back then,
07:53they were taking one black person a year.
07:55So when I auditioned, everyone was like,
07:57yo, don't expect to get in.
07:59You know, they don't really take many brothers,
08:01and they don't take many people anyway.
08:03And so when I got in, I was like, oh, OK.
08:05Well, I guess I'm in a circle.
08:07Special in some way, right?
08:09Well, you said it, not me.
08:12You and your siblings,
08:13were y'all competitive growing up?
08:15Growing up, we're competitive now.
08:17In fact, to be honest, I was just having a debate.
08:19We have a little debate group with two of my brothers
08:21about LeBron's season.
08:23Well, there's nothing to debate.
08:24I mean, especially if the debate is Michael Jordan
08:27versus LeBron James, because Michael Jordan
08:30never missed the playoffs with the Chicago Bulls.
08:32Just want to throw that out there.
08:33Oh, yeah? How did he do with the Wizards?
08:34That doesn't count.
08:35I mean, listen, we don't have to get into a LeBron debate.
08:37I just want to say that seeing him at 37 or whatever,
08:41averaging 30 points a game.
08:43Phenomenal.
08:43It's unbelievable.
08:45You know, even without comparison,
08:46we could just go, wow, what?
08:49But you know the crazy part?
08:50Not to get too off track.
08:52We would give LeBron all the credit
08:54if you didn't compare him to MJ.
08:56MJ's in a league of his own.
08:58Like, let Michael be Michael.
08:59Let LeBron be LeBron.
09:01Listen, this is my theory on it.
09:03That there's just multiple GOATs.
09:05There's like four GOATs.
09:06For me, there's four GOATs.
09:07It's Kareem, Wilt, Jordan, and LeBron.
09:09And so how am I going to compare Wilt to Jordan?
09:13How can I do that?
09:14They've played in different eras.
09:15They, you know, it's completely different.
09:16So different positions.
09:18Anyway.
09:19I think it's multiple GOATs, but it's one GOAT.
09:21That's Charlemagne.
09:23No, that's Michael Jordan.
09:30Let's talk about The Handmaid's Tale.
09:32Let's talk about it.
09:33You know, you've been acting a long time,
09:35but the role that introduced a lot of people, you know,
09:37to you and got you an Emmy nomination
09:39was Luke on The Handmaid's Tale.
09:41So take us back to 2016 when you landed the role.
09:44Did it feel special?
09:45And did you know it would become as
09:47culturally significant as it did?
09:49You know, it sounds really bad to say it, but I didn't.
09:50You know, like, I got the part and honestly, I was like,
09:54well, it's on Hulu.
09:55What's a Hulu?
09:57You know, like...
09:59It put Hulu on the map, though.
10:00Right, it did.
10:01But that's to remember back then when I got offered the part,
10:04there was no, it wasn't on the map.
10:05It wasn't even, there was no books, there was no paper.
10:07It was on nothing.
10:08Absolutely.
10:09And so when I got offered the part, I was like,
10:10okay, nice, we'll do a little thing.
10:12And so when I got there and I was working with this great
10:14director, Reed Morano, and the writing was amazing.
10:17And I'm looking at my fellow cast members like,
10:18you're on fire, you're on fire, you're on fire.
10:20It wasn't until halfway through it.
10:21I'm like, this might be something,
10:23but it's still on a Hulu and what's a Hulu?
10:25So it wasn't until it comes out,
10:27and it's the same time that Trump got elected,
10:30and the same time with a lot of movement,
10:31then it caught fire and then I was like, oh,
10:34this is gonna be a real thing.
10:36This is a real thing.
10:37Absolutely, absolutely.
10:38It became one of those things where people,
10:39especially during the Trump era,
10:40like they're gonna take us back to the Handmaid's Tale.
10:42Right, right.
10:43You know, and the show does tackle like a lot of ugliness,
10:46right, so does shooting that dark material
10:49ever weigh on you mentally?
10:51You know what's so weird and counterintuitive to a lot of people
10:55is that it's a fun set, like there is so much,
11:00it's like, you know, they see the humor in the mortuary
11:03or something like that.
11:04It's like almost in response to the darkness of the text.
11:08We laugh a lot when we're not shooting.
11:12But yeah, for sure.
11:14There are some times where scenes can get very emotional.
11:17Like ultimately, I have to imagine
11:19that my wife and child have been torn away from me.
11:22But I don't think I would say I take it home with me.
11:24It can be tiring, it can be exhausting.
11:26But I think for a lot of actors,
11:27it can be a kind of a therapy in itself.
11:31We see a lot of toxic men on the show.
11:33And you've talked a lot about toxic masculinity.
11:35So what are your thoughts on the root of that?
11:37And how do we start repairing it?
11:40Yeah.
11:41I mean, you know, I would say at first,
11:43I'm still on a journey.
11:44You know, I'm still discovering myself.
11:46And all the time, I'm lucky enough
11:48to have these wonderful women in my life that say,
11:50hey, yo, see that thing over there?
11:52You know, I watched that, you see that over there?
11:53And I'm like, no, I'm not.
11:55Oh, yeah, maybe I am.
11:56That's very important what you're saying.
11:57What you just said is very important.
11:59Having those women tapping on the shoulder,
12:00but also being able to hear it.
12:02To hear them, absolutely.
12:03Because we don't want to change.
12:05And nobody wants to hear that they've been insensitive.
12:07And so to be honest, you know, that's all I got to say.
12:11Like, I'm still in process.
12:12And part of what's helped me along this process
12:14is people are generous enough to say, hey, yo, this is that.
12:18That's that.
12:19Think about this.
12:20Try not to be like that and trying to have the humility
12:23to be like, maybe they have a perspective that I can't see.
12:26Maybe they have a perspective that I don't understand
12:27because I haven't had their lived experience.
12:29And so, yeah.
12:31I like hearing you say that you're still on your journey, you know?
12:34Because I feel like we say that.
12:36We say, oh, healing is not linear.
12:39Like, it sounds good to say, but it's really not.
12:42And if you're really doing the work,
12:43the more you peel back layers,
12:45the more things you realize you got to hear from them.
12:47Yeah, exactly.
12:48Yeah, and also empathize with.
12:51I think it's so easy.
12:53Like, I was brought up, when I was 14, 15, 16,
12:57we'd listen to music, raga music.
12:59Like, that is so toxic.
13:05And we didn't even hear it.
13:07With that beat, though.
13:08Yeah, I mean, this is the problem.
13:10That melody is so fine.
13:11I happened to throw away the tracks and bass lines and stuff.
13:16But it didn't even occur.
13:18And it had to take someone to be like, hey,
13:19will you listen to their lyrics?
13:21How would you feel those lyrics of
13:22Boom Bye Bye in the Black Man's Head?
13:23You know?
13:23But I didn't know what it was back then.
13:25Right.
13:25You know what I'm saying?
13:26I didn't know until I got older,
13:27and somebody told me what that meant.
13:28I'm like, oh, OK.
13:30Right, right, right.
13:31Oh, you hear about it.
13:32Oh, you don't even band that song.
13:33And I'm like, why?
13:34Right.
13:34And when you hear why, you're like, oh, OK.
13:36So like, so many of us are on a journey.
13:39And yeah, I don't know.
13:41I just try and face it with as much humidity as I can.
13:44The Handmaid's Tale also portrays
13:46like extreme, perverse examples of gender roles.
13:49Like, at this point in society, are we past traditional gender roles?
13:54Oh, I mean, I think we're in a whole,
13:56we're even beyond that.
13:57We're redefining gender as it is.
14:00And it's really complicated.
14:01And again, it's something that I'm just like, OK, teach me,
14:04because I'm learning about it.
14:06I guess the question is, is like, what is the purpose of a label?
14:09To say someone's male or someone's black or white,
14:12or like, what's the purpose of it?
14:13And I feel like sometimes that reductionism is used to try and push
14:18people into a small box.
14:20Whereas, I don't know, I just think the difference within a gender
14:24is often more than between genders.
14:26And it's like, who is this person in front of me?
14:27And if someone can really tell me a good reason that we're generalizing
14:31about a group, OK, cool, let's use it.
14:34But otherwise, I'm resistant a bit of the labels.
14:36Being black and British, you know,
14:38people complain about British actors taking American roles.
14:42Is that a criticism you've encountered?
14:43And what do you say to that?
14:45Yeah, it is.
14:46I mean, it's interesting, to some extent,
14:48like, immigration and what it means.
14:51Because it's not the first time people have said, hey,
14:53why are these people coming over and taking our jobs?
14:55That phrase is time immemorial.
14:58I think particularly for African-American actors,
15:01who, like, we're talking about African-American people
15:03who have been so disenfranchised in their own country,
15:06so many opportunities which they're qualified for and ready for,
15:09they're not getting, I think it can sting extra hard
15:13for some of those people to go, hey, like,
15:16I'm good enough to do that job.
15:18Why not?
15:19I think it's complicated.
15:20I think it's a job by job thing.
15:22When I see Daniel Kaluuya in Get Out, I don't know.
15:25I just think he was amazing.
15:26I'm like, I don't know who else I want to do that part.
15:28He was amazing.
15:29What am I going to do?
15:30And so I don't know.
15:32I'm really sympathetic to it.
15:34The funny part is most of the time,
15:35you don't even realize it until you hear them talk regularly.
15:38You know what I mean?
15:39Like, I didn't know Idris Elba spoke like that for years.
15:43I'm like, no, I didn't know.
15:45Is there any privilege to be in British?
15:48I guess so, you know, and I think it's hard to see one's privilege sometimes,
15:55and it's hard to also understand what are the things which are making a difference.
15:59I would say I'm so proud of the other British actors and actresses
16:04that I see out here doing their thing.
16:06I mean, I think there's some incredible talent.
16:09Now, and I don't know which one of them I can point to and go, oh, well, if you weren't
16:12British, you wouldn't be here.
16:14Because to be honest, they're doing a business.
16:16So I don't know, but possibly.
16:19You're playing a pretty big American figure, President Barack Obama, on the upcoming Showtime
16:25series, The First Lady.
16:27What did that mean to you?
16:30Well, it's hard to encapsulate, really.
16:32I mean, there's so many different levels that it means a lot to me.
16:37I mean, to say, hey, look, playing opposite Queen Viola Davis is not, you know, is a big
16:43part, you know, of it.
16:45Because one of the things I love doing in shows is working with people who inspire me.
16:48She definitely inspires me.
16:49And also, you know, President Barack was someone who is, I mean, maybe the most popular American
16:54president of all time.
16:55You know, we're talking about, and not only, I mean, internationally, particularly, and
17:01not only that, one of the most filmed presidents of all time, because he came of age during
17:06the internet era in a way that, you know, very few presidents.
17:09We had access to President Barack, like we haven't had access to any other president
17:13before, you know.
17:15And so that's a lot of pressure in itself.
17:18And, you know, just as a person, I was very inspired by him as well.
17:21You know, I went to his inauguration, even though I'm a Brit, I flew into Washington,
17:26I was on the sidelines.
17:27You know, I was like, like seeing the Beatles.
17:30I wonder why I never thought about that.
17:33How did the world, the world, how did the world see Barack?
17:35Was that inspiring?
17:36So, so inspiring.
17:38And I, you know, inspiring to the whole world, but particularly to the black diaspora,
17:43I think it was someone who just stood for just that intellectual capacity, that political
17:52capacity, that leadership qualities, that family man that went, yeah, we know this guy
17:58exists in our community.
17:59The media often doesn't show us that guy, but we know he exists.
18:03And now we have him on one of the biggest stages.
18:06And it just, it was just very ratifying.
18:08You know, we're here at a Dumbo house in Brooklyn, you know, where you say you've done
18:13a lot of writing, including the series Max on Hulu, which you also directly star in.
18:19So tell us about that and what drives you to want to wear those different hats?
18:22Yeah.
18:23I mean, I was living just, just around here.
18:24So that's why it's really nice here.
18:26But I think we've really taken some great steps forward in having diversity in front of
18:31the camera.
18:32When I say diversity, what I mean is breaking down the barriers that are stopping excellent
18:36people from doing amazing work and giving us great artistry.
18:40I think behind the camera, there's still so much work to do.
18:42If you look at like from writers to executive producers to directors, we're not represented
18:50proportionally to our demographics.
18:53And so I have in me a director, I have in me a writer, but I think I'm also spurned on
19:00by the sense of responsibility I have to kind of leverage my situation right now to increase
19:07our representation there.
19:08And whether that means how I do my hiring practices or working with my brother, Luti,
19:13who owns maybe the most successful black television production company in the UK, us, us having
19:19our voice out there, telling our stories out there, I just think it's an important part of
19:24what I want to contribute to the world.
19:26You're also working on Max and you got the opportunity to be in Black Widow.
19:29I'm a big Marvel guy.
19:30Okay.
19:31Okay.
19:32But I heard it was almost a scheduling conflict.
19:33Yeah.
19:34Well, you know, yeah.
19:35So the funny thing is, is so I was writing for Max and we knew when it was going to be,
19:39he was going to shoot in September.
19:40And then I got this call, you know, basically I put myself on tape for the Marvel thing and
19:44they said, yeah, boom, you know what?
19:45You got the part.
19:46So I was like, dope.
19:47When is it?
19:48September.
19:49Are they going to be able to move the dates?
19:50They were like, no, you got to choose.
19:52Are you going to do Max, which is your heart, where you're writing, directing and starring,
19:56writing the music for, or you're going to get to do this Marvel thing.
19:59And, you know, I got a team, agents and all that.
20:02And basically most of them were like, well, we know what you're going to do.
20:04You're going to do the Marvel thing, right?
20:05Cause it's Marvel.
20:06Don't be stupid.
20:07I was like, no, like I can't not do this.
20:11Like I said, it's like, I feel like it's part of my legacy to do this.
20:14So everyone gets stressed, you know, cause it doesn't look like we're going to be able to do both.
20:18Anyway.
20:19It happened.
20:20Got intervened and Handmaid's moved a little bit.
20:24Marvel moved a little bit.
20:25Channel 4 who were sponsoring Max moved a little bit and I managed to do everything.
20:29But I was kind of like going back and forth.
20:31I was shooting Marvel one day, directing the next day, coming back.
20:33It was kind of crazy.
20:34Did I hear that you had a love scene with Black Widow?
20:37Uh, well, I mean, not quite a lot.
20:40There was a scene.
20:41Okay.
20:42Basically, there was a scene with me and Black Widow on a bear when she first comes into the trailer.
20:45Scarlett Johansson.
20:46Yeah, Scarlett Johansson.
20:47She first comes in.
20:48She originally would lay next to me.
20:51And then we had this kind of like conversation with each other.
20:55Uh, which I said to them because when they were like, okay, we're going to do some deleted scenes.
20:59You know, I was like, that's a nice scene.
21:02Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
21:03Me and Scar Joe.
21:04Yeah, yeah, yeah.
21:05Do you know what I'm saying?
21:06They're holding back on me.
21:07Anyway, they held back.
21:08Now, let's talk mental health a little bit, man.
21:13When in your life did you consciously begin paying attention to your mental health?
21:18Ooh.
21:19I mean, I think in my early 20s, I had a kind of period where I started having panic attacks.
21:26And I think my mental health started affecting my physical health as well.
21:31And I kind of went, hey, look, if you don't intervene right now, things are going to really spiral out.
21:37Out of control.
21:38Absolutely.
21:39And so, um, I took myself away.
21:41I went to Ireland, actually.
21:42I'm part Irish.
21:43I went to my grandma's place in Ireland.
21:45She lives in the countryside.
21:46And I just like, I sat down, I read a bunch of books.
21:49Books on meditation, books on depression, books on stress.
21:52And I started to develop for myself a framework for which I can like, look after my own mental health.
21:59Like what helped you the most?
22:00There were like five things which I was like, okay, these are the things which help me stay sane.
22:06And if ever I'm not feeling sane, I got to check.
22:08Am I doing these five things?
22:09One was like meditation or prayer.
22:11Meditation.
22:12The other one is exercise.
22:13Basketball is part of my mental health.
22:15That's a therapy for me.
22:17Um, doing good for others.
22:20Like seeing and doing service.
22:22Uh, connecting with, you know, family.
22:25Whether that's your chosen family or biological family or logical family.
22:28Like being part community.
22:29Because I think sometimes when we get depressed, we don't want to be connecting with people.
22:32We don't want to see people.
22:33But it's so, I think, important to like connect with those people who love you right.
22:37Absolutely.
22:38And then fifth is gratitude.
22:39Gratitude.
22:40You know, and like I try and maintain a gratitude practice every morning.
22:43Um, obviously sometimes I fail at doing it, but I try and do it every morning just to kind of like recenter myself.
22:48You know, program my neural pathways to look out for the good, to look out for the things which are blessings.
22:54No, gratitude is always my attitude.
22:56Like, thank you.
22:57I thank you when I wake up.
22:58Even if I'm just driving home and when I pull in my driveway, thank you for helping me to get home safely.
23:03Like, it's just a constant, constant thank you to God.
23:06Well, you're lucky.
23:07You're lucky to have that intuition, that instinct.
23:09Because I think it's so easy to go, oh, this thing's going wrong.
23:12And look at the world and what's going on in the news.
23:14And you can just get into a mindset of like how messed up things are.
23:18Yeah.
23:19And I think we have to have a consciousness about the things that still need work.
23:22But if we don't have that gratitude, I think we could just collapse underneath the pressure of it.
23:31You got several projects rolling out this year.
23:34A new season of Handmaid's Tale, The First Lady.
23:37You're also in the upcoming We Crashed.
23:39And you work with amazing actresses across all of those series.
23:42Of course, Viola Davis, who I love.
23:44I'm from South Carolina, so she's a South Carolina legend.
23:46Legend, period.
23:47Elizabeth Moss, Anne Hathaway.
23:49Like, what is something you've learned from each of them?
23:51You know, when dealing with artists of that level, and we're just talking like the best of the best.
24:00Their gender is almost irrelevant to their excellent artistry.
24:08I mean, Viola has this kind of passion and like connection to the source in a way.
24:14Like when I'm around her, there's this energy.
24:16And she cares so much about people and community.
24:19And she's so well-read and so understanding of politics.
24:23Anne was very generous to me.
24:26We only had a couple of scenes together.
24:27And she was just like straight away, do you know where to eat in New York?
24:31Can I tell you the right places?
24:33And she was just so down to earth.
24:34I was like, this big star's really taking her time out.
24:36And then Lizzie Moss is just a savant of television.
24:40She kind of understands the whole process of writing, directing.
24:44She understands it from all angles in a way that I'm watching her like, wow, you really know.
24:49Actually, the other thing I want to say about Queen Viola is her and her husband's production company, Juvie Productions.
24:57That's goals for me.
24:58That's exactly what I'm talking about.
24:59Representation behind the camera.
25:00About being in places of power and telling stories which are meaningful to us but meaningful to everybody.
25:05That was really inspiring.
25:08Absolutely.
25:09Is there something you haven't tried that you'd like to?
25:11The thing that I'm most inspired by at the moment is to try and tell some African stories.
25:16What's the biggest African television show that you've watched?
25:19What's the biggest African movie you've watched?
25:21And we're talking about a continent which America, United States of America could fit two and a half times into Africa.
25:26We've got a billion plus people, you know, like it's bursting with stories and yet we've not had them.
25:32I mean, well, it's part of what I'm developing at the moment.
25:34I've got a number of projects which I'm working with.
25:37Two of my brothers, Daps, who's music video, he does Migos and, you know, he's an incredible director and Luti.
25:44So we're independently developing different stories for telling African stories.
25:49All right, my final two questions.
25:51If you could go back, what would you say to your 18-year-old self?
25:55One thing that my dad taught me is there is no wisdom greater than kindness.
26:00Mmm.
26:01And...
26:02That's a bar.
26:03It's a big bar.
26:04And I think I heard it, but I think I could have learned to just meditate on that more, just to try and...
26:13I don't know if you can be too kind.
26:15I don't know if you can be too caring and just find that, you know, I think as a young person just out there and just doing your thing and you can be quite, you know, maybe I was a bit self-centered and just, I guess, yeah, having as much kindness and empathy as possible, I think.
26:28What would you say to a 60-year-old Luti?
26:32I would say fast often and exercise, please.
26:37I want another 50.
26:41Absolutely.
26:42My man, Luti.
26:44Yeah, pretty good.
26:47I appreciate you, brother.
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