Who's next for Ilia Topuria? The race between Paddy Pimblett and Arman Tsarukyan | Against the Cage - video Dailymotion

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00:00:00Welcome back to Against the Cage, your MMA home for all the fight recaps, previews, and

00:00:13exclusive interviews that I know you're looking for, so make sure to give us a like and subscribe

00:00:17so you don't miss out on any of that stuff. My name is Jake Arie. I'm joined by my esteemed

00:00:22co-hosts, Mr. Eric Richter and Scott Fontana over there. And guys, let's talk about what

00:00:29happened this past weekend in Qatar. Armand Sarukian and Dan Hooker, main event. Armand

00:00:36comes out with flying colors in that main event, submitting Dan Hooker in the second round

00:00:41via an arm triangle. And obviously, Ili Taporia is the champion of that division, 155. And

00:00:49he said that even after that, he wants Paddy Pimblett next. Armand's coming off of yet another

00:00:54win as pretty and arguably the number one contender in that division. Eric, I'll throw

00:00:59it to you. Who do you think that the UFC should go with for Ilias next challenger?

00:01:05Well, you said it, Jake. Ilias said he wants Paddy. The UFC's relationship with Armand has

00:01:12been, I would say, checkered over the past year, year and a half. For those of you that

00:01:17might not remember, Armand missed weight when he was supposed to fight Islam Mahachev. Well,

00:01:21sorry, didn't miss weight. He pulled out of the fight for an injury. The UFC later pretty

00:01:26much said that, you know, that there were some issues with his weight and he wasn't on weight.

00:01:31He had said that it was sciatica or something like that. You know, if I was the UFC, I'd

00:01:35probably do Paddy Pimblett. I think it's worth noting that there's still no premium live

00:01:40event, main event announced yet for the UFC's transfer over to Paramount Plus and over to

00:01:47CBS. So I really just, you know, given Paddy Pimblett's popularity, especially in England

00:01:52and in Europe, Armand didn't exactly ingratiate himself into fans over the past year and notably

00:02:00this past weekend when he headbutt Dan Hooker. I would say, given all of those things, this

00:02:05is not a meritocracy. Yes, Armand is probably the better fighter, but no, do I think he will

00:02:11get the title shot next? Scott, what do you think? Who should the UFC go with?

00:02:16I'm not saying anything you said is wrong explicitly, Eric, but I will say this for me personally.

00:02:21I would question the legitimacy of Ilya Topuriya's reign until he beats Armand Sarukian or the man

00:02:28who beats Armand first. I think that we have a 1A in Ilya and a 1B in Armand and frankly,

00:02:35you could interchange them and I wouldn't even argue with you because we have somebody who is

00:02:40very distinctly the best guy in the weight class before Topuriya arrived other than Mahachev who

00:02:47has now left, right? I don't think you can keep going this much longer when people very clearly see

00:02:55that he is the other best guy. The results are there. They put him on center stage as the main

00:03:02event, the A side of their most recent event, the biggest fight night that they've put together in

00:03:08three and a half years, I believe we said for the event rating, right? I think he needs to erase the

00:03:14doubts, Topuriya. He needs to have this fight and I want to see it and I do think they will,

00:03:20depending on what their plans are, right? The wild card is exactly what you mentioned, Eric,

00:03:24that whole thing with January. What are they going to do with that? Do they already have plans in

00:03:29motion? Is it really already going to be Patty and Ilya? We don't really know that just yet,

00:03:34right? I will say this though, Topuriya, not Topuriya, Sarukian certainly seemed willing to step

00:03:43up to the plate. If they come to him, they're like, hey, we need you in January. He'll do it.

00:03:48And frankly, the UFC is going to like hearing that. Yeah, 100%. I think that if we're going with

00:03:55Mr. Box Office, Patty Pimblitt is probably the bigger fight, but I definitely like that point

00:04:02that you made, Scott. Sarukian, uncrowned champion might be the wrong word because it's not like he

00:04:09was an interim title holder or what have you, but he was the number one contender in January and he's

00:04:15the number one contender now, you know, and that's one win later too, right? So, and he looked

00:04:22fantastic. Yes. Yep. So yeah, I'll, I'll, I'll dive in there a little bit. The UFC, I don't think

00:04:27the UFC cares about that. Just quite frankly, like Habib Nurmagomedov, when he was on a world

00:04:32beating train, fought on the prelims of a title fight that should have been his when Conor McGregor

00:04:37was fighting Eddie Alvarez. I'll just also just add. He fought on the prelims of the biggest event that

00:04:42the UFC has done in their whole life. Let me finish. I'll just say, and also Sean O'Malley

00:04:47fought Aljamain Sterling. I don't, I don't think anyone really, he only had one win in the top

00:04:5310 at that point. Um, Murab Devalos really obviously wasn't going to fight Aljo, but you know,

00:04:58Umar Nurmagomedov was there. There's been other guys. The UFC is willing to bypass the legitimacy

00:05:03question to do what is more, I guess, fun in the eyes of sales. I think though the, the, the situation

00:05:12here is different than some of those other ones, right? Cause Khabib, Khabib was not what we know

00:05:18him to be today. He was not a star. He was one of those guys that like, if you're paying attention,

00:05:22you knew he was a monster. That's all it was. Armin Sarukian had a title shot. He was booked

00:05:28as the B-side of the first event of this year, the first pay-per-view event of this year.

00:05:35He is a very known quantity. So it's, it, I don't know if it's apples to apples here, you know?

00:05:40Um, and I, and I get it. Like you're, you're bringing a similar examples. There's not, there's

00:05:45not always going to be a one-to-one here, right? I think the problem with it is there is actually

00:05:50a lot of momentum behind the idea of Armin being the best guy. And there's a little bit of pub with

00:05:55him. He actually brings in an audience too. He's not Patty. He's not the same drawing power as Patty,

00:06:01but he is something there. There is something that people are paying attention to. People are talking

00:06:06about with regard to Armin Sarukian. And frankly, I don't know what else you do with Armin. If you

00:06:13don't give him the title shot, you can do things with Patty Pimblett. There are a lot of fights you

00:06:18could do with Patty Pimblett. Patty hasn't necessarily like earned the title shot. So there

00:06:23are a lot of fights you can do with him that make a lot of sense. Armin, what do you do with him? He

00:06:27just sits around. That doesn't make any sense that it's not good business either.

00:06:30I pose this question. Do you think that you could do Patty first, but then Armin's next fight is for

00:06:38the title? Or would you still say that that is not it? Would you rather do it? He has to fight for

00:06:44the title. He shouldn't fight again. He said that he's not going to fight again. Which one are you

00:06:50talking about? For Armin. Armin, yeah. Oh, Armin. Okay. Yeah. Armin said that he's not going to fight

00:06:57again. He shouldn't. I don't blame him for wanting the title shot, saying that he's earned

00:07:01the title shot. He has. Now, the reason that I brought up the Habib comparison was that Habib

00:07:06had had a bunch of pullouts. So the UFC was afraid of him not making weight in a big fight. Remember

00:07:13the jokes when Habib and Tiramisu or whatever the jokes were back in the day? That is, I think,

00:07:21the reason that I brought the comparison in. Yes, Armin is probably the best guy at the division.

00:07:27No. Do I think that he will get the title shot next and he might have to be a backup fighter again?

00:07:32I think the, like, kind of to your question, Jake, I think if they're planning to do, if they

00:07:38already have this in the works or something like that, if they have Ilya Toporia against

00:07:41Patty Pimblit in January, then hey, it kind of, it solves the problem. Everybody gets what they want

00:07:46because realistically it's still pretty much the same timeline that we would get the next fight

00:07:52with Armin Sarukian and Ilya Toporia. Toporia doesn't keep the busiest of schedules. He doesn't

00:07:58seem like he is particularly interested in getting in definitively two fights a year.

00:08:02He kind of just, it seems like he is very content to fight on his own time and the UFC understands

00:08:11that they're, they have something with him that they can do that with a little bit. I don't think

00:08:16they want him once a year, but it's not necessarily twice a year. But yeah, if they can fit it in in

00:08:22January with Patty Pimblit, that makes a lot of sense. And then, you know, obviously it could go

00:08:27the other way. Patty Pimblit could win, but then you've got Armin Sarukian, some of them are in the

00:08:32second half of the year and that makes sense. But I think if they're not doing that right away,

00:08:37if for some reason Ilya is not in a rush to fight still, or if they do want to say, hey,

00:08:43let's give it to Armin, maybe we'll just make him earn it real quick. He's going to have to turn

00:08:47around a little bit, you know, get one of those short notice fights that they made Aljamain Sterling

00:08:52have after he defended the belt, right? You've got two months, you're going to, you're going to get

00:08:56ready. And now it was as a champion. I could see that. And Armin seems ready for that. He really

00:09:00does. Like he kind of mentioned, like, I'll just take the fight when we interview him.

00:09:04Yeah. I don't know. It's just, it's interesting how this can play out. There's a few different ways.

00:09:08One thing that I would add too, and you brought it up is like, if Ilya is not fighting in January,

00:09:12which I think that we expect him to fight in January, but it's not been announced. If he doesn't fight in

00:09:17January, this fight might not happen for a while. Ilya is not the most active champion and they want

00:09:23to have a fight in Spain. So if he doesn't fight in January, say he fights in February, March, or

00:09:28April, if the next fight has to be in Spain, you might not see Armin again until the winter

00:09:33of 2026. So the other thing about the Spain, the Spain thing is an interesting thing. Cause I've

00:09:39talked with, with Ilya about this before. And as much as the UFC, Dana White said he wants to fight in

00:09:44Spain, right? That was one of the things he, when they put him on the spot, he said Spain would

00:09:48where he'd be wanting to go. Um, he doesn't want to do Dana White does not want to do stadium shows.

00:09:54He doesn't want to do outdoor shows, but Ilya is saying he only wants to fight where, uh,

00:09:59Barcelona's stadium is, right? It was a, I forget the name of it. Real Madrid. I believe he's a fan

00:10:04of no. Was it? I don't know. What's the, I'm not as good with the soccer stadium names, but

00:10:11it's an outdoor soccer stadium. That's the one. Exactly. Thank you. Yes. That is exactly the one

00:10:17he wants to fight there. He doesn't want to fight just in Spain. He wants to fight there. If it's

00:10:21not there, I don't know that they're getting Ilya there. In a past life, I was actually a pretty

00:10:25big soccer fan. So that, that came in handy. Um, but I do want to get to Armand's performance

00:10:31against Dan Hooker. He's got three finishes in his last four fights. Uh, Scott, I'll throw this

00:10:37to you. Do you think that he did what he needed to, to make a stamp to get that next title shot?

00:10:43Like we were kind of talking about, uh, last week and what you and Armand had discussed as well.

00:10:48As far as the performance. Yeah. I mean, I think this is exactly what he needed to do in the cage

00:10:52short of, you know, him going out there and getting a, like a head kick knockout or something

00:10:57like that. Something really quick, a spectacular KO. Um, but that's not really his trademark,

00:11:02right? This was the exactly the best type of performance that we tend to see from Armand.

00:11:08He ran through Hooker. There was an answer for anything Hooker had for him. There was a point

00:11:12where Hooker drops down for the guillotine and he gets out of it so easily and is just in great

00:11:17position. It just, there was nothing that Hooker had to offer him. And it was the, it was a great

00:11:24thing to put on tape. A lot of, a lot of what we saw from him showcased him as the best lightweight

00:11:29contender. So I, he can't ask for much more. Eric, how about you? Can't ask for much more.

00:11:36Totally agree. Um, I brought up the, uh, the head, but again, um, in leading up to the fight,

00:11:42fans are pretty upset about it. Um, yeah, if you look at some of the, it's not, it's not good.

00:11:48He shouldn't have done it. It wasn't good. It wasn't good. It kind of gives me like

00:11:51Bilal Muhammad vibes from back. Like when, before he was the champ and leading up, Bilal

00:11:56was like, I want to be the champ. I want to be the champ. And he's like, didn't really,

00:11:59uh, vibe with the fans, I guess. I think that matters. I think that that's why Bilal took

00:12:03so long to get the title shot. I think that could be why it's stalled out for Armand.

00:12:07I mean, maybe that's just me reading too much into it. Um, but yeah, I mean, excellent performance.

00:12:12I think a little. Yeah. Maybe I'm reading into it too much.

00:12:15I see a hint of what you're saying, I guess, but maybe not to the same extent as Bilal,

00:12:20but maybe not to the same extent, right? Like maybe it's not the apples and apples, but

00:12:25I, regardless, I think, I think there's something there. Uh, maybe it's a half big take. Anyway,

00:12:29um, Armand is probably the most talented one 55, or I mean, we, and if anyone hasn't watched it,

00:12:36Armand fought Islam Mahachev back on the prelims when they were, you know, basically babies in the UFC

00:12:41watch that fight. Armand is talented, man. Like, and he was kind of relatively unknown. Mahachev was

00:12:46pretty, was a pretty hyped up prospect at that point, but man, like he is talented. He is skilled.

00:12:52He's, you know, he might be the best one 55 or he's just not the champ right now. So that's just

00:12:56kind of how it goes. Yeah. It's kind of like what we were talking about, uh, earlier, Eric,

00:13:00I do kind of want to get your thoughts on that guillotine escape. Cause we haven't seen that much

00:13:04at all. I've, I was listening to, uh, Renato, uh, Moicano on, uh, Ariel. And he was like, honestly,

00:13:10Dan Hooker, if he had any good ground game, maybe he could have taken the back, uh, or what have you.

00:13:15But honestly, if you're getting some guys doing that type of spinny move in, uh, in a guillotine,

00:13:20it'd be pretty hard to react to it. I'd be like, what's going on. What did you think about that?

00:13:24Definitely made it look easy. I mean, look, Armand is so that, that was, I guess part of my

00:13:30issue going into the fight was the opponent. I, I even wrote this when I wrote my prediction piece

00:13:35for it. Um, and I had Armand to win inside the distance. I just didn't agree that Hooker should even

00:13:40be here. I was like, I don't agree with Hooker's rating. I don't think he's a top five fighter

00:13:44and lightweight. And I, I would rather have seen Armand. I would honestly, I'd rather have seen

00:13:49like a rematch with Oliveira because that fight was so close. And I think that Oliveira, Oliveira

00:13:53just fought for the belt. I actually think that that rematch would have made sense considering

00:13:55how far, how close that fight was. But nobody wanted to fight Armand. I know that's the thing.

00:14:01It's like, it doesn't matter what you want because nobody wanted it. Yeah. Right. This was the fight

00:14:05that they could put together. It's yeah. Yeah. I hear that. It's just so tough. Cause like,

00:14:10I don't know that a Dan Hooker win did a whole lot. Didn't we learn the whole lot? I don't know,

00:14:15I guess about Armand, which I already knew that Armand could do, could do that to Dan Hooker.

00:14:19It was, it was more of a reminder, I would say rather than we didn't learn anything new. It was

00:14:24more of a reminder. And Scott, like you said, like Dan didn't really have too much for him. There

00:14:29wasn't like really much of a moment in the fight besides like the second that he was trapped in the

00:14:35guillotine that it looked like Dan was having any success. And then we were very quickly reminded

00:14:39about how skillful Armand is on the ground. Like that first one, he just escapes immediately gets

00:14:44into side control and you know, the second one as well. Listen, when they're putting together a

00:14:49fight like this, I have to think, obviously, you know, we heard from Dan Hooker. He asked for this

00:14:53fight, right? This is the one he stepped foot for cause he had something to gain. Whereas the last time

00:14:57that Armand was looking for that fight, he didn't have anything to gain. So that's why it was

00:15:00different. But I think from putting together this fight, the UFC is getting two potential results.

00:15:07It's the most likely two results, right? Number one, Armand wins and he looks damn impressive.

00:15:13And now they can build him back as a contender. Again, it washes away all that stink from January.

00:15:19Now they've got this to focus on that. He just blasted Dan Hooker. And you can think what you

00:15:25think about Dan Hooker, but the UFC's machine has built Dan Hooker enough to be a capable,

00:15:31somewhat of a functional win for him to be, to be looking good here. I think that, that for,

00:15:36for that purpose. And then on the other side, if somehow Dan Hooker comes out and he stuns the

00:15:40world, yo, they could put Dan Hooker in there and that's a title fight if they really want to.

00:15:44And he's a fun guy, or they can move him onto the BMF belt and that could be a fun fight.

00:15:48It's win-win for them. But I think those were the things that probably

00:15:52were crossing the minds of how they get, what they gain from it.

00:15:55Yeah, absolutely. And like you said, he, Dan Hooker's not, he's no scrub in the past like year

00:16:02and a half, like tattooed Dan Hooker is like kind of become a little bit of a mythical fighter. He

00:16:06built up a pretty good win streak. I mean, a win over Mateus Gamrot, like that's, that,

00:16:11that means something I would say. He had some good other ones as well that aren't maybe immediately

00:16:16coming to mind. But I mean, Armand came away with the win. That's what he needed. And he did it,

00:16:22like you said, in very impressive fashion. So it's hard to deny that.

00:16:26I hear you on the Dan Hooker love. I just feel like you got a little bit fortunate on the split

00:16:30decision wins those last two. That's just me though. Fair enough. But let's talk about the

00:16:37co-main event, Ian Machado, Gary, winning a very impressive decision over the former champion,

00:16:44Bilal Muhammad. I mean, coming into this year, Bilal was the champion and Ian won in a very much

00:16:50standup fight. Bilal going for a lot of takedowns, Ian stuffing them. But I'll throw it to you, Scott.

00:16:57Now that we know the, this, this welterweight kerfuffle that we had in this past weekend and

00:17:03the weekend beforehand in MSG, there were so many big welterweight fights. And now that we kind of

00:17:08know we have the lay of the land of all these top fighters, these important fights, who's coming

00:17:13away with wins. We've got Ian Machado, Gary, this past weekend. Shavkat Rahmanov is kind of also in

00:17:19the mix in terms of, if we're talking about the past 12 months, who are coming off of big wins

00:17:23at the top of this division. Michael Morales at MSG and Carlos Prochez. And then of course,

00:17:28we've got Kamaru Usman as well. And I'll posit this to both of you guys, but I'll throw it to Scott.

00:17:32Out of those names that I just mentioned, let's rank them from five to one. Let's go one by one.

00:17:38I think that'll make it a little bit more fun. Who would you say has the most threat to Islam

00:17:44Mahachev? Scott, who's your number five? Biggest threat to Islam Mahachev, I'm going at number five,

00:17:51Carlos Prochez. I think I got to start with him at the bottom of this quintet here. He seems the

00:17:58most ripe to just go down as an Islam highlight because I have the sort of takedown defense that

00:18:05you need to really keep it where he wants to be, which is be able to throw hands down. It's going to

00:18:12be a fun buildup to the fight if they ever do that. I don't think Islam's going to approve the

00:18:16smoking, but he's definitely the distant fifth here. Eric, who's at your number five?

00:18:22Yep, certainly one I feel like was a little obvious. I'm interested to see where the rest

00:18:26of your list goes, Scott. But yes, Carlos Prochez is a distant five. I would venture to guess that

00:18:30he would close anywhere between plus 350 and plus 400 as an underdog to Islam Mahachev.

00:18:37We are three for three. I've got Carlos Prochez as my number five as well.

00:18:41I mean, we did some talking about him last week and I feel like I would echo exactly what we're

00:18:47saying. He's a fun fighter. Just don't know if he's got the championship rounded game for someone

00:18:53like Islam as well. Scott, I'll throw it back to you. Who is your number four?

00:18:58We're going with E Machado Gary here. This is where it does start to get tough. I think a lot of these

00:19:03guys are not very far apart. I think he's the best in this. Let's say these top four here. I mean,

00:19:09includes Prochez, but the best of them at executing a really strong game plan. And that is not to be

00:19:15taken lightly. I think that's a very important thing. If you're fighting someone like an Islam

00:19:20Mahachev, I think you need to be prepared and he would be. I wonder if the absolute elite level

00:19:27takedown hunting of Islam is going to, if he's going to be able to withstand it. He obviously did a

00:19:33decent job with Bilal Muhammad, but Bilal is getting a little longer in the tooth, right? I think it's,

00:19:39it's fair to wonder, Hey, is Islam distinctly better in that regard than, than a Bilal Muhammad?

00:19:45And also Islam would not be giving up on it. He would definitely just keep doggedly pursuing that,

00:19:50I think. So I think it's a little bit different, but it would be interesting. I really think so.

00:19:54What do you think, Eric?

00:19:54I'm on the same wavelength as you. I'm going to go Ian Machado-Gary at number four. So Jake,

00:20:01we'll find out if we're going three for three on this one. But you know, for me, I think that,

00:20:05you know, most, a lot of the same stuff that you said, very good at implementing a game plan,

00:20:10sticks to his game plan, is calling for a title shot. We'll get to that. But yeah,

00:20:16I would venture to guess that he ends anywhere between plus 250 and plus 300 as an underdog.

00:20:21I think he closed plus 350 to Shavkat Rachmanov. So I think that may be slightly less considering

00:20:26he had a good performance there, but still a sizable underdog.

00:20:29We are three for three. And I, look at us go, we're all very much in sync. I was going to echo

00:20:35the exact same things that you guys said in terms of the game plan. I was going to mention, like,

00:20:40like you said, the takedown defense that he showed off in this fight was definitely very impressive,

00:20:45but Islam's a different beast. I feel like Bilal's takedown game versus Islam's, I would venture to

00:20:53say that Islam's is another level in there. But Scott, who do you have at your number three?

00:20:59I'm going with Michael Morales here. I think he's very dangerous. Obviously, I think he might

00:21:04actually pose the most danger, per se, like, especially when it's on the feet, because he has

00:21:10the capability to potentially keep this up. He's very big. The question that I have for him in

00:21:16particular is, is he ready for this fight at just 26? You know, he's very much the kid among the men

00:21:22in this group. So I don't know if that's it. That's the question I think we'd have to answer.

00:21:27Does he have enough experience in the cage to deal with this distinct level up in competition? I know

00:21:33he beat, you know, Leon Edwards, the former champ, not too long ago, but different type of champion here.

00:21:39So I don't know. That's, I've got Morales here. But again, I mean, I wouldn't rule him out.

00:21:44Eric, how about you?

00:21:46Surprised to see you have Michael Morales over at three. I'm going Kamaru Usman number three.

00:21:51If I were to line the fight ahead of time, I'd say maybe plus 220-ish. A lot of this obviously has

00:21:57to do with what I project the gambling odds would be. Kamaru Usman is certainly a terror in terms of

00:22:05grappling. We saw him really perform well against Hamzat Chimaev. Yes, that was two years ago. So I guess when

00:22:12they would fight, it'd be almost three years from now. But regardless, Hamzat Chimaev is the 185-pound

00:22:17champion, could easily be a 205-er. I think that he's number three, and I'll have an argument for

00:22:23Michael Morales, which I'll give to you next. But yeah, go ahead, Jake.

00:22:26I, I've got a side with Eric on this one. I will say this is where things got very,

00:22:31very difficult. It was like, I was looking at this list probably for like a good like 10 minutes on

00:22:36just these top three. I'm going to go with Kamaru. I don't want to give away on who my top two and one

00:22:43is, but I will say we mentioned Michael Morales, Scott, for your number three. The reason why I have

00:22:48him above Kamaru Usman is just because of the sheer physicality and the way that he dwarfed Sean

00:22:56Brady in the octagon. Although we will have some more on Sean Brady and his size coming in quick

00:23:03hits. So maybe that's an argument that you could make against it. But Scott, who do you got at number

00:23:07two? Right here, I actually have Kamaru Usman as well. Look, he's a legend. I think he still has,

00:23:17until proven otherwise, he still should be considered an absolute threat here because of

00:23:23the power he brings on the feet because of his ability to stop takedowns against anyone who's

00:23:29really faced except for, you know, again, someone who was a weight class above on short notice and,

00:23:34and very much the best wrestler of weight class above. Um, and he still held his own, right? Like

00:23:39we talked about the age thing is the question mark here. He's 38. He'd be, gosh, he'd be close to 39.

00:23:45By the time they fight, he turns 39 in, uh, in, I believe May. So the age thing is the real concern

00:23:52that I have here. But I think as far as skillset and that kind of thing, I think he actually has

00:23:57the potential to really disrupt, um, Islamahatchev here. So that's, that's why I put him above Michael

00:24:03Morales, but it's kind of funny. Like I, ideally one of them would be a little younger or a little

00:24:08older, like closer to that middle range. They're both just a little farther away than where I kind of

00:24:12feel comfortable with that. How about you, Eric? Number two, I'm definitely going Michael Morales

00:24:18here. I think that we saw kind of with Sean Brady, I think we saw how dangerous his power is. And,

00:24:25you know, maybe that's his best takedown defense is the power. He's so much bigger than everyone

00:24:31else at that division. Um, it's really, I mean, sans maybe a handful, but you know, Michael Morales is,

00:24:38is humongous. We saw him there, uh, at the event. I mean, he's undefeated. He, he's scary, man. Um,

00:24:46the striking is really, really strong. I think that there's some takedown defense and he's going

00:24:50to keep getting better too. He's young. So I think that there is a world where if he fights

00:24:55Islamahatchev, maybe at the white house, maybe in the spring, in the summer, I think there is a world

00:25:00where he's improving his takedown defense. And yeah, I think that he is definitely a major threat

00:25:06to Islamahatchev. If I were to line the fight, I think you're again, looking in the plus 200 range,

00:25:11uh, maybe plus 180 on Michael Morales. Yeah. And I'll, I'll echo what you said. And, uh, to address

00:25:19the age thing with Kamaru Usman, that's sort of the reason why I put him below Michael Morales and

00:25:25also just like what his body's kind of been through. I know we've kind of heard the, the whole like,

00:25:30uh, wobbly knees, like cobblestone knees from Kamaru. And that's something he addressed in his,

00:25:34uh, latest post fight interview showing that he's like still got it. But I will say I'm not just

00:25:40that convinced over the win over Joaquin Buckley to put him as much of a threat to Islamahatchev.

00:25:47But I completely understand what you're saying, uh, Scott, in terms of like, there hasn't been

00:25:52enough evidence to doubt him yet. I would probably say venture to say is one of the, that's where I'm

00:25:57at. It's really, I just haven't been proven wrong yet in my head about this, where the skills are.

00:26:01Um, but frankly, it could happen at any moment. Fighters dip very quickly.

00:26:06Yes. And already, let's go to the number one on this podium, Scott, who is your number one threat

00:26:12to, well, we already know it, but who is ours? Who is ours? Yes. Yeah. Yeah.

00:26:18I mean, look, I think I'm probably speaking for you guys here. He is dangerous everywhere. He may

00:26:24have the grappling and size to actually give Islamahatchev trouble. Um, and frankly,

00:26:32I, I don't know where you sit. You're the odds maker. I'm not a handicapper, my friend.

00:26:36Um, I would say this line ought to be really darn close and, and I would almost feel comfortable

00:26:42siding with Rachmaninoff today. If the two of them were to fight, I think that that's who I would think

00:26:49wins, but I mean, I haven't thought about it that much. And you know, there's a lot of time. So

00:26:53we'll, we'll see. What do you think, Eric? Well, good thing for you that I have thought about this

00:26:58stuff. So, uh, I'll just give you a rundown on Shafkat Rachmanid's odds in his career. He was,

00:27:04uh, minus four 35, uh, in a, in a fight that did not happen against Bola Muhammad minus 400 against

00:27:11Kamar Usman. And again, a fight that did not happen. Leon Edwards, minus five 30. Again, fight didn't

00:27:16happen. He closed minus three 50 against Ian Machado. Gary minus 600 against Steven Wonderboy

00:27:22Thompson. I go on down the list. Now we haven't seen him in a long time. There's injuries involved

00:27:27here. Um, I, I think Shafkat, there's injuries involved. He hasn't been, we have no idea where

00:27:32he's at physically. We haven't heard a lot about him, which, um, I always find concerning is like,

00:27:36is he training? Is he not training? How bad's the injury? Like, well, he was just on Aaron Hawane.

00:27:41He said, he'll be back in February. Maybe that sounds great. That sounds great. I hope that that's

00:27:46the case. Um, I would suspect, and I, I'm not sure if he'll get a tune-up fight. I don't know how

00:27:50he'll look at that. Um, I would say that Shafkat Rachmanov will be favored if he fought Islam

00:27:55Mahachev. And I think that he could be a minus one 50 to minus one 30 favorite.

00:28:00Ah, I, I, I would have to go with Islam. I think the only reason why is because I know he won

00:28:07that the Ian Gary fight, but like he looked human in that fight. And I know that Ian Gary comes in,

00:28:14like you said, with a very good game plan. And I mean, he proved that his takedown defense is

00:28:19pretty solid. Um, but I don't know fighting Ian Gary versus Islam Mahachev, I feel like it's a very

00:28:26different beast. And I don't know. I, I just, I feel like Islam's unbeatable no matter whether he's

00:28:33at one 55 or at one 70, but you look like you got some disagree. I disagree. You know, I mean,

00:28:40obviously number one, he is not unbeatable because I know that all him lose in the UFC.

00:28:45So there's that. I, I know what you mean though, the euphemism of it, but I, I think what we have

00:28:50here is if you're referencing that Ian Gary fight, Shafkat is saying he's maintaining that he was hurt

00:28:56going into this, that this injury that he's been dealing with actually predated the fight and that

00:29:01it did not, because he was just on aerial. He was talking about this. He said it didn't get worse

00:29:04in the Ian Gary fight. It was just something he kind of had to deal with. Um, but you, you,

00:29:08one of you mentioned the tune-up fight, the idea, I forget who it was, but he, Eric. Yeah. I,

00:29:14he did allude to on, on, again, on aerial show, like, you know, I don't know if I'm going to get

00:29:18the title shot or not. I'm willing to take another fight in between if I have to, like, you know,

00:29:22he seems certainly accepting of that situation and he wants the title shot. He believes he's done

00:29:28enough, but you know, he wouldn't put up a stink and he certainly wouldn't be resistant to

00:29:32taking another fight. So if that's the case, unless there's a mandate, uh, then frankly,

00:29:38I could see him absolutely getting skipped over and he'll have to face one of these other guys,

00:29:43maybe, uh, maybe a Carlos Proches or something like that, that would really, you know, that would

00:29:47help boost the profile a little bit, bring some eyeballs onto that fight. Fair enough. Eric,

00:29:51what do you think about that? Um, it sounds good to me. I just hope to avoid a world where

00:29:56Shafkat Rokmanov kind of becomes like a mythical creature and like we see him once, then he's gone

00:30:00again. Um, you know, that would be my only worry. Um, just to recall back to the Rachmanov

00:30:06Ian Gary fight, uh, Rachmanov got, uh, you know, he was going for upper body takedowns a lot. And if

00:30:12you rewatch the fight, he's really going for upper body control, which Ian Gary is really good at

00:30:16defending, like really good. We saw it against Paul Muhammad too. Um, once Shafkat pivoted, um,

00:30:22to like lower body takedowns, getting under the hips, getting under the butt, he found more success

00:30:26there. So just something to, something to recognize, like Shafkat did change up his game

00:30:32plan and found a little bit more success as the fight went on. And that's the thing about Shafkat

00:30:36too. I'm glad you bring that up because like I said, he's very dangerous everywhere. He has such

00:30:41a wide variety of skills that he is proficient at. Um, I don't know that he has like that absolute

00:30:48takeover skill that you're, you're really concerned about, but he could do anything. And he's only not

00:30:53finished a fight one time. It was that Ian Gary fight. This is a finisher. He is minded

00:30:58on the idea of getting that fight over with. So, and I think again, Ian Gary is a, he's an

00:31:03extremely tricky matchup. It's hard to look outstanding against Ian Gary. You kind of just

00:31:10get through it if you can. Um, and that's, that's kind of, uh, that's basically a compliment

00:31:15to Ian Gary that he is an extremely hard fighter to, to do anything really too. So I think that

00:31:21was almost the best case scenario in hindsight. Um, it's going to be a, an Islam fight wouldn't

00:31:26be easy, but I do think that there's more opportunities for him to take advantage.

00:31:30A hundred percent. And out of, out of all those names, I mean, like we kind of all agree, like

00:31:35that name is probably the most interesting one for him to face off against. So for sure.

00:31:42Um, but let's talk about Ian's performance. Let's round out this discussion in terms of him

00:31:47being in that title picture, Eric, based off of this performance, do you think it warrants

00:31:52a title shot over those names or if not how far into, uh, how far has he propelled himself

00:31:58from this, uh, performance?

00:32:00So it's very interesting, right? So like you go into this fight, the co-main event and main

00:32:04event, both fighters, uh, Ian Gary and Armand, they both need, you know, finishes. They both

00:32:10need to look impressive in order to make the case to get their title shot. You know, um,

00:32:15Sarzoukian was in a, in a spot where he gets the finish. He looks excellent. Machado Gary,

00:32:22on the other hand, doesn't get the finish. There's an eye poke in there. Um, you know,

00:32:27he defends the takedowns well, but never really close to anything. No submission attempts,

00:32:31uh, no knockdowns or anything of the sort. He called for the title shot very aggressively

00:32:36after the fact saying, you know, he's not fighting again. You're not going to hear from

00:32:39me until I get another title, until I get a title shot. That's interesting to me. Um,

00:32:44I don't think that he did enough personally. Now I'm not the matchmaker. Um, but you saw my list.

00:32:49I would, I would sooner give Kamaru Usman a shot at Mahachev's title than I would Ian Gary.

00:32:55It's not anything to do with his skills. I just think that I would have liked to see a little bit

00:33:00more urgency. I had, you know, fight doesn't go to a decision as a bet, as a bet, which is partially

00:33:04tied to Ian Gary, uh, aggressiveness and, um, you know, urgency to get a finish. I just didn't

00:33:11see a whole lot of that, but you know, he talked up a good game after the fact. So maybe that can

00:33:15give him some, uh, some, something, but I'm not so sure. I'm not so sure that he did enough.

00:33:20I will say before you go, Scott, I'm not actually all that surprised that it went to decision. There

00:33:25has been, I was there in Boston when he was, uh, facing off against Neil Magny. And that was a fight

00:33:30where like, he could have gone for the finish. Like Neil Magny in that fight looked like he was,

00:33:36you know, on the verge of getting finished and Ian patient, calm collected. He is getting a win

00:33:42over risking, you know, not getting the win. Right. Uh, but Scott, well, what do you have to say?

00:33:49I mean, just to put a button on that kind of the notion of the finish and that kind of thing.

00:33:54He's only got three finishes. It's been a while since he's finished a fight. He's not really

00:33:57a giant finisher, especially now that he's gotten to those upper reaches of the visions.

00:34:01I just don't think that's the type of thing we're going to have to see from him. He's going to be

00:34:05one of those guys who's winning, not eking out decisions, but man, he's, he's more of like,

00:34:09you can't put them away. He may not put you away, but he's going to, he could, he could really

00:34:14put a hurt into you, you know? And in this fight, you know, obviously look, he did everything he did

00:34:18to outclass Bilal Muhammad. He, he made somebody who, again, as we said at the start, he started the

00:34:23year with that title around his waist. He was the champion of this weight class. Now he's lost two in a

00:34:28row, but it's a good win. I think he really could actually have done enough

00:34:34to win the, this potential championship opportunity. You know, there, there is some

00:34:40buzz around his name. I do think though, it's it, if he really means this and he's going to stick to

00:34:46his guns here, it might be a miscalculation to say, I'm not fighting again. You won't see me

00:34:49until I'm fighting a title because the climate is not such that supports it. There's too many options.

00:34:55We just talked about them. And frankly, we put them at number four of our threats to beat the champ

00:35:00kind of thing. And I wonder how much different that is than some other people. So I don't know.

00:35:05I don't think that's the right leg to stand on. I think he, he's going to, the better thing to do

00:35:09in, in, in a dog pile like this is take out another dog. And I, and I don't think he, if he's really not

00:35:15willing to do that, unless that's what the UFC really wants to do. And there's a good opportunity.

00:35:20He's, uh, he's probably making a mistake. Unless he's waiting for a pullout, you know, I guess

00:35:25anything happens for a pullout, but that I wouldn't bet on it. I don't think that's what

00:35:30fighters wait on. I don't think they're sitting around saying maybe somebody pulls out of a fight

00:35:34that's not even scheduled. So I don't see the roadmap then other than that. I don't know.

00:35:40Yeah. I would say in a vacuum, uh, the win on its own, it would be warranting of a title shot,

00:35:47but just because of what's going on at welterweight and just how many names there are and people coming

00:35:51off of big wins. Um, that's just, and again, he lost to Shavka. Yeah. That's it. It's not that

00:35:59long ago. We remember that fight. I know he was competitive, but again, he still lost the fight.

00:36:04If he had won that fight, he should have after that one been like, you won't see me. And so,

00:36:09because then he would have had all the momentum. Yeah. This is a different climate. It just doesn't

00:36:13work. Yeah. Fair enough. Well, let's talk about Bilal Muhammad, who obviously, you know,

00:36:18was on the losing end of the fight. Scott, I'll throw this to you. Where does he go from here

00:36:21after two losses in a row? Like you mentioned, he's done as a title contender. I think we know

00:36:26that, uh, at 37 years old, he's not getting any younger. This is just that that's that part of

00:36:30his career has now ended and he didn't look all that good in the ways that he used to be

00:36:35threatening and in the takedowns and that kind of thing. So, uh, the, the tide I think is just going

00:36:39against the old guard right now. And he is a part of that old guard. He's probably got to defend

00:36:44his spot again, just like he did here. So I could see the UFC maybe trying to book him against like

00:36:49a Gabriel bomb theme, right? Give bomb theme that opportunity to leap into that group with those

00:36:53other, uh, you know, elite 170 pounders that we're talking about. But yeah, I don't know what

00:36:59Bilal Muhammad is anymore. Uh, as far as the UFC from the UFC's perspective, Eric, what do you think?

00:37:07Not a good spot for him. I mean, but this is what happens, right? This is how fighting goes. I'm sure

00:37:11like he was on top for a good amount of time. So he had, he had a good career. Um, but he's,

00:37:14you know, I mean, I don't want to say that he's like in the same spot as like, uh, I don't know,

00:37:19like maybe you could fight like a Colby Covington, like kind of just do like the, the big fights

00:37:24where it's like, there's a lot of trash talk and maybe you're the curtain jerker of the main car

00:37:28type of thing. Um, Joaquin Buckley, Leon Edwards, something like that is kind of where I'm at with

00:37:33him. Yeah. Colby's never going to fight him. I don't know. I don't know. I can see that one.

00:37:39Yeah. Colby doesn't want to fight anybody. That's why not. No. Yeah. I want to see him

00:37:46fight. You don't have to like it, but it's true. He doesn't want to fight anybody. I'm

00:37:49indifferent. I'm okay. I'm, I'm cool with not seeing Colby again. Um, but he's got to

00:37:54fight on the white house. He has to fight on the white house. Yeah. Well, let's talk about

00:37:57someone that Scott does like actually. Let's talk about someone that Scott does like, and

00:38:03that's Kyoji Horiguchi. Look, he's smiling already. All about Horiguchi. Here we go.

00:38:08Yes. The Gooch, as some people like to call him, uh, nine years away from the UFC. If my

00:38:13math serves me correctly. And he comes back in pretty dang impressive fashion, submitting

00:38:19Tagir Ulanbekov, a part of the Nurmagomedov camp, no less. Uh, Scott, was this the Gooch that

00:38:26you were expecting in his UFC turn? Absolutely. He is a monster at 125 pounds. The only one who

00:38:33actually beat him down there was Demetrius Mighty Mouse Johnson. He's 10 and one overall.

00:38:38Then the other rest of his record is fighting basically a bantamweight. He went 25 and four

00:38:43as a bantamweight beating guys like Sergio Pettis last year. Um, he had separate reigns as the Bellator

00:38:50and Ryzen champion at 135 pounds. Back in 2017, he subbed Manel Kopp, who obviously now is a,

00:38:57is a fellow flyweight contender or, you know, someone in the mix there anyway. Um, I think at

00:39:03any point since, let's say Mighty Mouse's departure from the UFC, when he went in that

00:39:07little trade with, with one, I think at any point in that stretch, it is entirely possible

00:39:12to have pictured Horiguchi having become the, the flyweight champion of the UFC, had he been

00:39:17there and been fighting. Um, even at 35 years old, like he, he's been on fire. I'm thrilled to have

00:39:23him back. And frankly, to beat someone like Ulan Bekoff, who, uh, you know, they call him a

00:39:28prospect. He's 34. He's more of an up and comer at an advanced age, but he had a lot of momentum

00:39:35and he absolutely just massacred him in every facet. The way he, he knocked him down and then

00:39:40submitted him in like such quick order in the third round. Like the, this is a guy who gives

00:39:46problems everywhere and everyone's going to remember the gooch after this.

00:39:50One hundred percent. Eric, I just want to get your thoughts on that performance as impressive

00:39:54as it was.

00:39:55Mind-blowingly good. Um, to be, to your goal and back off landed six significant strikes.

00:40:00This fight did not end in the first round, just to be clear. Um, Horiguchi wins by submission

00:40:04in round three, knocks him down twice, defending takedowns looked incredible. Um, had a hilarious

00:40:12call out afterwards, um, masterclass from, uh, Kyoji Horiguchi, who just might be Scott's favorite

00:40:20fighter. Is that fair to say?

00:40:23I mean, he's certainly one of my most favorite to, to watch anyway. And, and I've had the pleasure

00:40:28of interviewing him before and, and, you know, English is not his first language. He's working

00:40:33on it. He's making progress. We had a nice chat in, in as much English as he can get out there.

00:40:38But, um, frankly, he's, he's fun. I think the division's better for him being there. So yeah.

00:40:44Yeah. I, I thought that that performance, I mean, Scott, I know you've, you've kind of

00:40:48tried to get me to understand how good Kyoji is, but my goodness, like coming in the 35 years of age

00:40:56to fly weights, like as we kind of know, or at least in terms of trends, like the older weight

00:41:01classes, uh, or the heavier weight classes tend to be where older fighters have, you know, longer

00:41:07careers. That seems to be the sort of trend at fly weight. Cause the speed is so important.

00:41:11I mean, it just looks like his well-rounded game is, is just so good that he's able to stick with,

00:41:17uh, the youngins. I mean, I know, like you mentioned to gear is around the same age as he

00:41:22is, but it doesn't take anything away from that. But again, he had a lot of momentum and it just

00:41:26like, this is somebody who was beating guys. He was, I think six in one as a flyweight. He beat

00:41:31guys like Cody Durden and, and, and, you know, uh, as a Maxim and all these people that are like

00:41:36really solid to, to pretty darn good flyweights. And he'd got into the rankings and he just

00:41:42obliterated Ulam Bekoff, who comes from again, like you said, a really fantastic camp. This is

00:41:47not the type of thing that you would expect on paper to have happened otherwise, but this is a

00:41:53different level of fighter. He's still slot like under ranked in the UFC's rankings, which I mean,

00:41:57again, we've talked about them before the UFC's rankings are what they are. Uh, I think we have

00:42:01in court Kyoji Horiguchi, we're talking about like a top three flyweight when it really comes down to

00:42:06it. So yeah, I, I really hope that he gets, uh, his wish from that call out. Right. I think we're

00:42:12about to talk about that. Right. Yes. So thank you for, for that segue, Scott, Eric, you're Mr. Box

00:42:18Office. Uh, also you got the chance to talk to Alessandre Pantoja, who was the subject of Kyoji

00:42:24Horiguchi's call out. Scott Fontana also talked to, uh, Joshua Vann, who will be at the other end

00:42:29of the octagon from Pantoja next weekend at UFC 323. So make sure you guys go ahead and check those

00:42:35out if you haven't already, but Scott or Eric, rather getting confused with you guys right now.

00:42:40Uh, let's talk about, uh, Alessandre Pantoja versus Kyoji Horiguchi. Do you think that that would be a

00:42:46box office fight? I mean, the two of them in the same camp over at ATT, what do you think?

00:42:50Uh, all right. Well, I guess it depends on how you define box office, right? Um, for me,

00:42:56box offices, there's a lot of trash talk, which there won't be here. There's a lot of respect

00:43:00between these two fighters. Um, Alessandre Pantoja, uh, when I was talking to him was talking

00:43:05about like Kyoji Horiguchi is one of the best fighters in the world. Um, like when he comes

00:43:10in, he, when he's doing like a move, everybody comes to watch him do it because he has taught

00:43:16so many fighters at his gym, different things. Um, and that he helped Horiguchi's grappling get

00:43:23better while Horiguchi helped his striking get better. And they're kind of, um, ying and yang

00:43:28together a little bit. So, uh, from that perspective, I don't even care about the box

00:43:31office as much because this probably wouldn't headline a main card of a premium live event,

00:43:36which is we have to get used to. Um, this probably wouldn't headline it anyway. So I think as a co-main

00:43:41event, this would be fantastic. I would also like to see this headline a fight night. I think we've

00:43:45talked about that in the past. Now that pay-per-view doesn't exist anymore. Why not do

00:43:48it? Uh, go back to like flyweights or women's fights or, um, you know, lower, the lower weight

00:43:54classes, um, have them headline fight nights. I think that would be a nice little, um, a freshness

00:44:00to the product, but yes, this is an awesome fight. Sign me up for it. And Pantoja, if he beats

00:44:05Joshua Vann, it's kind of cleared out the division, um, a little bit. Pantoja has beaten

00:44:10Manel Copp already. Horiguchi, by the way, just in my travels, found out that Horiguchi was

00:44:15a minus 1000 favorite when he defeated Manel Copp. How crazy is that? Wow. And one thing

00:44:20that I will say though, is that in, in the interview, if you're looking forward to some

00:44:23trash talk, Pantoja did say, he was like, if there's one guy that I can trash talk with,

00:44:27it's Kiyochi Horiguchi. So maybe the two of them have some good banter between them.

00:44:31But Scott, I want to get your thoughts as well. You know, I don't know if it quite gets to

00:44:37the level of box office, like Eric was saying. Um, but it, look, it's a fight that immediately

00:44:42injects intrigue into 125 pounds, which frankly, if Pantoja does get through Joshua Vann still has

00:44:50the title next weekend. Um, I don't know how much of an intrigue there really would be.

00:44:55This is something that it needed. So it was good. It's good to have this now waiting on the horizon

00:45:00potentially. Okay. So let's talk about another fight that happened on that card. Waldo Cortez Acosta.

00:45:05He's been in our, uh, his name has been on our mouths a little bit recently. Uh, obviously short

00:45:10notice fight, uh, two fights in one month, uh, which the UFC definitely likes to seize four

00:45:15and one this year, two straight KO wins. Uh, like I said, two days or a few days notice

00:45:20Shamil Ghaziv, he knocks out in the octagon. He says he wants another fight in December.

00:45:25And obviously the UFC loves that kind of attitude. Does his body of work push him to be in that

00:45:32heavyweight title conversation with all those attributes that I just mentioned before, Scott,

00:45:36I want to get your thoughts. What do you think? Uh, and you also left out the fact that lucky

00:45:41he's four and one, but that one loss is to, uh, Sergei Pavlovich in August. So this is a pretty

00:45:46recent loss. So that's what complicates his case, right? It's a fascinating situation here. I do think

00:45:53normally I would be against that. I would say, Oh, you know, Pavlovich ought to be, you know,

00:45:57ahead of him in line, but I don't know how close Pavlovich is to that title picture. And there are fresh

00:46:04fights that you can put together with Waldo Cortez Acosta with this momentum. I think you'd

00:46:08be, it would be negligent to ignore that if they can obviously get the, the whole Tom Aspinall surreal

00:46:14gone situation sorted out first, right? If for some reason Aspinall wins that fight, right? We still

00:46:21don't know. Now it's starting to look like a much more interesting fight than it was. Um, if Aspinall

00:46:25wins, I think it's almost a no brainer. You have to put Cortez Acosta there because it's a fresh

00:46:30matchup and we don't have too many of them for Tom Aspinall. If gone wins, you don't have a mandate

00:46:36here in the same way. You can actually go to Alexander Volkov, do that rematch. That was so

00:46:42close the first time and put it over five rounds. I think people would actually be a little interested

00:46:47in that one. So it kind of depends on some opportunities here, but he's done everything

00:46:51he can to ingratiate himself to the UFC, um, and put himself in that position that you, as we know,

00:46:57the UFC loves that type of stuff. If you're active, you can get yourself places. And especially

00:47:02if you're, you're stepping up for short notice and say, get me on that next one. I mean, they're

00:47:07just going to love you. Yeah. Eric, what do you think? I'd be remiss not to mention the

00:47:12anti-Delica fight where Delica has all this Cortez Acosta on the absolute ropes. And then a,

00:47:21a foul gets, opens the window back up for Cortez Acosta, who then wins the fight by knockout

00:47:28immediately after what a world we live in here in mixed martial arts. Um, look, I mean,

00:47:35when we look at the rankings that was on there, yeah. Oh my God. So you look at the rankings,

00:47:39he's number five. Um, Curtis blades is number four. He's recovering from meniscus surgery though.

00:47:44Uh, Pavlovich, he already fought and lost so that you could do Volkov or you could do a rematch

00:47:49with, uh, Pavlovich. Like those are all fun options. Um, but yeah, I mean, who's going to

00:47:55fight December six. I mean, sign me up, right? Like I'm, I'm definitely, definitely intrigued.

00:47:59This is definitely a good way to, um, maybe like rise your stock a little bit. We've seen

00:48:03fighters do this in past. Hamza Chemaia famously, you know, was an unknown and then fought twice in

00:48:08six days and then three times in a month. And, um, you know, look where he is now. So this is not

00:48:14the worst move, especially when you're a heavyweight and he doesn't really seem like he's cutting

00:48:18weight. And if he's not taking that much damage, which he's taken a little bit of, but assuming

00:48:21he's not taking that much damage, it's not a bad move. Scott, what you got? Can I, can I throw out

00:48:25something wacky for you? Like this is so out of left field and it is not going to happen. It will

00:48:29not happen. Okay. But how fun would this be? And for me, especially, this is a throwback to a

00:48:35different time. Imagine if they're trying to put together a fight for Waldo Cortez Acosta to get on

00:48:40there. They can't find anybody at the heavyweight who's really willing to step up on short notice for

00:48:45some reason or another. What if it's Alex Porton Pereira that he just goes up and takes a one-off

00:48:52fight at heavyweight just, just for funsies, you know, this is the type of thing Anderson Silva would

00:48:57have done back in the day. And it was like, that was part of what was Anderson Silva's like

00:49:02almost superpower in the sense that like he would just go take these one-off fights at another weight

00:49:07class. He wasn't even pursuing the title. He would just go up there, mess around, knock somebody out,

00:49:11including Forrest Griffin, the most recent, he was the recently dethroned champion at 205. And

00:49:16then just come back down and keep doing his business at, at his weight class and defending the belt.

00:49:19This would be a really, really fun throwback to that. It's not going to happen. I'm not saying that,

00:49:25but it would be so much fun. I like it.

00:49:29Walton would do it too.

00:49:32I think he probably would. There, this, this is a particular matchup too that look,

00:49:36Cortez Acosta could certainly look for takedowns, but I think ideally there's probably a striking

00:49:42element to this fight, even on Cortez Acosta's side. So I think it'd be neat.

00:49:47I'm realistic about it.

00:49:49Yeah. No, I think that's a fun matchup. Sign me up. That would be awesome.

00:49:53I like, and I mean, it seems like Poetan, he wants to go up to heavyweight regardless.

00:49:58So I feel like it's going to happen. It's not going to be Waldo Cortez Acosta. He won't do it that

00:50:04way. When he goes up, it'll be for a title. That's, that's what they do now. And I get

00:50:07that. It's not just him. That's the UFC. Yeah. But man, it would be so cool. He'd have a good

00:50:12time with it. Yes, absolutely. There's risk involved. That's why. Yeah. You can't, you

00:50:17can't risk Poetan. No, a lot, a lot. Yeah. Especially because if he is moving up to heavyweight, it's

00:50:21not like he, you know, would be sticking around at light heavyweight in that aspect. So it's like

00:50:26he's in the new division and he just lost to Waldo Cortez Acosta, right? That's the risk

00:50:30that you're kind of running at. And then you lose the John Jones fight.

00:50:33But it, but it would just add to his, his whole thing, right? The aura of, of Alex

00:50:38Poetan. Yeah. Speed run. Imagine we remember that he just, he stepped up on short notice

00:50:42because this other guy wanted to fight on short notice. So he's like, yeah, I'll fight a

00:50:45heavyweight. I've never fought a heavyweight, but I'll fight this guy who's four and one this

00:50:48year, who's potentially in the title picture. Just don't do it anyway. This is the type of

00:50:52thing that makes legacy so much different than just how many titles did they win and that

00:50:58kind of thing. There are memories you can attach to them. And obviously Poetan already

00:51:02has a lot of that. I think anyway, he doesn't need to do it, but if he did, it'd be darn

00:51:06cool. And he'd be the type of guy you'd see doing it.

00:51:09A hundred percent. And I think that wraps up the biggest things from UFC Qatar cutter. But

00:51:15let us know in the comments, what you thought of our takes. Let us know how you rank the five

00:51:20gentlemen that we had at Welterweight and let us know if we got anything wrong or if you

00:51:24agreed with those ones. Now, moving on, we do not have a fight to preview this weekend

00:51:29because of the holiday. But Scott, you did something very interesting about three weeks

00:51:34ago. So let's go back to that. Let us know what you did.

00:51:39So, yes, about three weeks ago, it was actually the afternoon after I spoke to Jack Della Maddalena

00:51:45in our New York City studio. On November 7th, I headed down to Philadelphia for CFFC 148.

00:51:53And the Pennsylvania Athletic Commission, they granted the opportunity to shadow judge

00:51:59the fights that were taking place at the old ECW arena. They now call it 2300 arena. So

00:52:04this was a very unique opportunity for me to do something that media members don't do. I

00:52:10can't think of another active or even past media member who actually legitimately sat in

00:52:16in person as a shadow judge for an event. I hope I'm wrong. I hope there's actually someone

00:52:20out there. And if they are, you know, shout them out. But yeah, I went down with my good

00:52:24buddy, Dan Urban, who was my old couch. I judge his co-host. He is now a working judge

00:52:29who was working this event. But yeah, when I was there, saw some some guys that you guys

00:52:34know, John Morgan, Dean Thomas. They did the commentary. Jake. I saw your guy, Jake

00:52:39Nowaker there. Yeah, it was a good time. It was a really cool experience.

00:52:43All right. And before we dig into all about that experience, could you briefly explain explain

00:52:48for us what exactly is shadow judging? So, OK, so obviously we know about the judges that

00:52:54sit cage side there. They're there in those little chairs around there. What a shadow judge

00:52:59can do is they are someone who will also sit cage side. I was seated in particular next

00:53:04to one of the judges seats. I was in like a smaller chair next to them. They had a high

00:53:09chair. I was in a little lower chair because they didn't have them available. So I sit there

00:53:14and I sit in basically the same perspective as the judge. And I'm sitting there and I'm

00:53:18trying to watch and score the action and I'll turn in a round card. I have to do it

00:53:23immediately. Write down my score on. I can show you. It's a little piece of paper that

00:53:28looks like this. Hopefully we got that close enough. And you put down your score. You mark

00:53:34down if there was any points deducted on there as well. And then. Yeah, it's it was a

00:53:42fascinating experience to to be able to do that. You're just kind of putting your scores

00:53:46in. Mine don't count, though. They're not like legit scores.

00:53:51Eric, you got me. Yeah, so it's like practice.

00:53:56In a way, it's it's it's almost like a trial run, you know, you you really legitimately experience

00:54:03what that is like. But it's not. Yeah. You did the whole card.

00:54:11Yes, I did the whole card start to finish. There were, I believe, two or three amateur

00:54:17fights to start. And then I did those. And actually, you do that on a different piece

00:54:23of paper that looks like this. And in that situation, you're putting down each like each

00:54:29round before you do it. These you have to turn in immediately each round ends. This

00:54:34you do for the whole fight and turn it in at the end. OK, and a little different for

00:54:38Amy. And my question was going to be, what was something that you noticed that was different

00:54:44from sitting cage side scoring versus watching on TV? I'm sorry. What was something that you

00:54:51noticed that was different from watching and scoring cage side versus on TV?

00:54:56So when you're watching cage side, you know, you only have one angle. Like if you're watching

00:55:04on the TV, they're going to pivot to some different cameras. Sometimes those cameras even move

00:55:08around. There was one that was hanging directly over my head that was on a crane that would

00:55:12kind of move around a little bit here and there. You're stuck in that static place, right?

00:55:17You can move your head a little bit to try and maneuver to get a better position. You'll

00:55:21see some judges will do that sometimes during fights as well. Certain judges in particular,

00:55:26like to really maneuver. But yeah, if you're trying to follow the action where they go,

00:55:32you are really you got to got to understand you one view. That's it. You do have screens.

00:55:39There were screens in this arena in particular. So overhead, I could look up if there was an

00:55:45angle that I couldn't see from from my seat and I could potentially, you know, get a better

00:55:51view at it. But also that camera I just mentioned sometimes got in the way. So I didn't always have

00:55:55a good look at that either. Yeah. And I guess going off of that, so you didn't have any screens,

00:56:02like say it like right in front of you that like were for you to look at or the other judges,

00:56:07they didn't have that as well. Correct.

00:56:08Uh, no, everyone had kind of the same situation. Yeah, there was no. So the screens that like the

00:56:15little screens that you've probably seen at UFC shows, they're kind of unique to UFC shows. There

00:56:19are some promotions will do it from time to time, but it's very rare. I mean, that's a resource.

00:56:23You need to pay for that. That doesn't come from the commission.

00:56:28Now, when you were sitting cage side, did you, were there any fouls? That's always like one thing

00:56:33that I've always wondered, like how is reporting of fouls to judges? Well, there certainly wasn't

00:56:39anything that was point deducted. So we didn't have to mark that down or anything like that. But

00:56:43you'll see when, when they do take a point, you know, they'll bring the fighter to the middle of

00:56:49the cage and they'll hold up their hand and go one point. And they will look to three different

00:56:54places. It's those judges to let them know that they have been deducted a point, depending on the

00:56:59commission. Sometimes they, the scorekeeper will deduct the point at the end. And sometimes it's

00:57:05on the judge to put that point down. I don't know what I would have been tasked with doing, but

00:57:10obviously you saw on the, the, the paper I held it before, it does have a little box there for minus

00:57:16penalty. So I would assume that I had to put that down. Interesting. And like, were there,

00:57:21were there any clash of the heads or anything like that? I always wondered how, because like,

00:57:25sometimes I know that there's clashes of heads in fights and, you know, I believe that

00:57:29previously, like some UFC commentators are like, you know, if the judges have no idea if that was

00:57:33clash of heads or not, or, or, or whatever, anything that you would do or, or anything like

00:57:38that? I didn't notice, uh, any particular clash of heads. I get nothing that sticks out in my mind

00:57:44three weeks later. Right. Um, and I haven't watched the fights live since, or, uh, on replay ever since

00:57:50then. But basically, unless it's pointed out that this was an illegal blow, you're kind of supposed to

00:57:55score it. That's just the way it works. So, you know, you can identify and say, well, he headbutted

00:58:00him, but I mean, you can also not score it because if you see, you don't have to like hold it against

00:58:05him, but like in these are, I mean, technically it's a legal blow. If the referee isn't calling it

00:58:11illegal, that's really what it comes down to. Yeah. And, uh, one question that I had for you is coming

00:58:17out of this experience. Do you have a newfound respect for maybe the judges that are sitting

00:58:23cage side in the way that they do things now having been in that same position or were these

00:58:27things that you kind of already knew and expected? Uh, I think I'm probably one of the very few out

00:58:32there who actually already understood it to a point, right? I never experienced it, but I did

00:58:37understand, Hey, look, it's not an easy job. There is going to be times where the action moves to like

00:58:43a part of the cage where, you know, maybe there's a little bit of a bend on the cage because of the

00:58:47contours that they make the fence or whatever, or just the angle you're at. And maybe you just won't

00:58:52see anything there. You know, it's, it, I was always aware that that could be a thing.

00:58:56Experiencing it as a different thing, right? Cause you still got to figure out, okay, you can only

00:59:01score what you saw. You can't just say, Oh, he got hurt. I didn't see it. I guess it must've been

00:59:06something. We don't know. You can't score that. Um, so that, that it helps you really having been

00:59:12through it to understand that one thing that was kind of neat though. Um, this was something I hadn't

00:59:18really prepared myself for was if you're at one panel of the cage where I was, right? And the two

00:59:25fighters end up basically rushing toward the cage, maybe they're defending a takedown or whatever it

00:59:30is, right? Maybe at some velocity coming your way, there's a bunch of big bodies coming your way. Um,

00:59:36you see a fence there, but also you're, you're thinking, Oh man, I got to stop myself. Now I didn't

00:59:41go, you know, panicked or anything like that, but there was a little bit of the first time,

00:59:45especially. And even the second time that it happened, I was kind of like a little, like

00:59:48not as prepared for it as I thought I'd be. And you, you recoiled just a little. Yeah,

00:59:53absolutely. You're kind of, you're, you're a little surprised, but, um, that was unique.

00:59:57That was something that obviously I've sat pretty close. I've, I've sat about 15 feet away from

01:00:02fights live because of, you know, the, uh, maybe even closer. I don't even know how far it is, but

01:00:07because of the nature of the media row and that kind of thing, but this was much closer. You're

01:00:11literally like two feet away from maybe three feet away from the actual fence. It's a lot closer.

01:00:17It's a lot different. Last one for me, grappling exchanges. How hard was that to, um, judge?

01:00:28I mean, you know, obviously you have an understanding of grappling, you can judge it, but, um, you to be

01:00:34able to score, you know, a, uh, a submission attempt, you need to be able to see how deep

01:00:40it's in. Right. Um, and that can get tricky. There was a leg lock in, in particular that actually

01:00:45me and, um, one of the judges, we were kind of trying to figure out how it was going to get

01:00:49classified. Cause it was, you know, we don't have the benefit of hindsight. We have one angle at it.

01:00:53And it was kind of hard to see. I thought it was a knee bar. I think we weren't, uh, or no,

01:00:57he, they believe that this judge in particular thought it was a knee bar and I kind of thought it was a

01:01:01heel hook, but it didn't look like, uh, like your traditional type of heel hook from our angle.

01:01:05It did get, um, noted as a heel hook after, after the fact, but, um, yeah, you need to have a good

01:01:14angle at those submissions, but it really helps to have a good understanding of submissions. If

01:01:18you're not well-versed in them and the way they work and the way they look good and the way they're

01:01:24safe and the way they're not, then it gets hard to score that you need to be well-rounded in that

01:01:30way. It's, it's a little easier to say, okay, this guy got punched in the face. It hurt. Um,

01:01:35there are different types of strikes where maybe that's a little bit less so, but grappling in

01:01:39particular, you need some expertise. Um, and I, you know, I have some of that for sure. And that

01:01:43helped, but as far as the, like what you're seeing and the angles you get, yeah, it just,

01:01:48that expertise does play into that. It helps you identify it better.

01:01:52And to round it out for me, Scott, or to round it out in general, what would you say was your biggest

01:01:58takeaway from this experience and what you gained the most from it? Someone who's very interested

01:02:03in judging, maybe if it was the experience or anything specific, you know, I think what I

01:02:09gained from it in particular was just, it's another perspective that now I can say, Hey, look, I know

01:02:14what this is like. Actually. I can speak to it from experience one time, right? It's, it is what it is.

01:02:20And there, and I didn't undergo the pressure of my score actually counting. Right. So there was that,

01:02:25like, I'm turning this in and I'm trying to go as quick as I can, but also, you know, I know,

01:02:31even if I'm not thinking about it, I could put down the, the wrongest of wrong scores and it just

01:02:37doesn't matter. These people, they, they, if they take their job serious enough, they want to be

01:02:42right. They want to get it right because it depends on, you know, the wins and losses of a sport, but

01:02:48also, you know, the financial opportunities of a fighter one way or the other. Um, and I don't know

01:02:54how much they're thinking about that in those moments, but that is the pressure that goes into

01:02:57that. So, um, being able to not have that, it's a different thing, but just the fact that I sat

01:03:04there and I can lean on it and say, Hey, I know at least a little bit about what that angle looks

01:03:10like and the sounds of it. And you know, the feel of, of when somebody lands that hard punch,

01:03:17you get it again, like from where I'm at at media row, but even closer and even better when you're even

01:03:22closer. And that was nice. I liked that part of it. It was a really cool experience. And I say,

01:03:26I recommend anyone who does the job that I do, who covers fights, you really ought to do it. I

01:03:31mean, most of these commissions are going to let you do it. It was not, it was not jumping through

01:03:36hoops for me to be able to do this. Wow. Alrighty. I mean, I'd love to do it, Eric. How about you?

01:03:42Yeah, maybe let's do it. I mean, I think we talked, Scott talked about this well, before we had a

01:03:45podcast with me. Um, I think I was going to go to one of the classes with you at one point.

01:03:49Okay. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, well, the classes is one thing too, right? That's another element of it.

01:03:54This is a little bit of a different thing, but I would say don't shadow judge if you've never done

01:03:57it because you won't gain much from it. You won't really understand it. Yeah. You're licensed,

01:04:01right? No, no. I, I passed the test so that I can be licensed. I have to apply and pay money to be

01:04:09licensed. I'm not doing clarification. No, thank you. I mean, it's, it would be a fun thing to do,

01:04:15but I don't think I can do what I do and that. So it's, it's kind of a, it's just doesn't work.

01:04:21Fair enough. Well, Scott, that was definitely a very interesting, uh, conversation behind the

01:04:25scenes, pulling back the curtain of, uh, what these guys, uh, go through on a weekly basis,

01:04:31but Scott, I'm gonna throw it right back to you. Let's get two quick hits.

01:04:36Yeah. So there's some big news. Actually, we were talking a little bit about the,

01:04:41the first events of next year. We finally starting to get a peek behind that curtain

01:04:45of the UFC's first premium numbered event of the Paramount Plus era. Arnold Allen is set to face

01:04:52John Silva at UFC 324, January 24th at T-Mobile Arena, Las Vegas. This is reported from MMA fighting.

01:05:00Just about every element of what I just said is news. So that's, that's kind of an interesting thing

01:05:05there. Uh, former Bellator bent, excuse me, welterweight champion Yaroslav Amosov, 28 and one

01:05:13record. He's bringing to the UFC finally for his UFC debut against Neil Magny on December 13 at the

01:05:20apex. That's per multiple reports. We'll see that, I guess, just about two weeks away. And that's an

01:05:25interesting debut taunt, uh, right there. Amosov, Sean Brady. We mentioned him earlier in this show

01:05:30in the wake of his loss to Michael Morales, he spoke on his Brady bags show podcast, uh, about a

01:05:36potential move down to 155 pounds down the line. It's not an immediate thing. It didn't make it sound

01:05:43that way, but he did say, while it would be a very hard thing for him to do, he's kind of at max muscle

01:05:48at 170 pounds per the UFC PI. Uh, he's got the frame of a lightweight and it's something that he's at

01:05:54least thinking about for the future. So potential down the road, uh, change for Sean Brady. I think

01:06:01that'd be an interesting spot for him. UFC 322 looking back just a couple of weeks here. Uh,

01:06:07there was that brawl. We all know about Dylan Dennis, uh, that's back in the news, uh, as New

01:06:12York city mayor, Eric Adams, who's on his way out the door. He has vowed the perpetrators of this

01:06:17whole thing will be held accountable. Uh, this is story is far from over. So we'll, we'll keep our eye

01:06:22on that. Overseas in Europe, KSW, KSW, the, uh, the Polish standout promotion that is announced

01:06:31that they will be instituting a new penalty for fighters who miss weight. So they will now start,

01:06:37if they miss weight, they'll start round one with a point deduction. And that is on top of fines that

01:06:42would already be instituted for that transgression. And we're going to close out here with one fight

01:06:48that just happened not too long ago. We're, we're Wednesday here. This was Sunday. Gable

01:06:52Steveson, the former NCAA and Olympic heavyweight wrestling champion. He won his second MMA fight

01:06:58with a 24 second knockout of Kevin Hine at the Anthony Pettis FC show. Uh, impressive win for,

01:07:06for my money. He's the biggest heavyweight prospect since probably Daniel Cormier 16 years ago. So

01:07:11keep an eye on him. This guy might be, uh, we might see him in the UFC very, very soon.

01:07:15Some very, very high praise. I have this funny image going back to the three 22 thing. I have

01:07:20this like funny image of like Eric Adams going over to Dagestan to go like get them. And then he

01:07:25comes back two, three years, comes back to three. And he's a good wrestler. Yeah. He's a really good

01:07:31wrestler then. My, uh, Sambo. Well, let's get into the final round and talk about our homework

01:07:39assignment from last week. Vitor Belfort versus Michael Bisping. And I will confess, I did know

01:07:45the, uh, end result of this one going into it, but watching it play out, um, was definitely

01:07:51something. I mean, it was, it was a relatively back and forth fight, especially like Vitor having

01:07:55a pretty slow start, uh, in that first round. And then my God, that head kick it's watching it again.

01:08:05I'm actually like in the moment, it didn't look like it was something that would have like

01:08:09hit him in the eye. It looked more like to the temple, which is a little confusing to me in

01:08:13hindsight about how that actually messed up Bisping's eye. But I'm not sure if you guys have

01:08:19any knowledge about, uh, exactly how that went down. Good question. I'm not sure the answer

01:08:24though. I would venture to guess that it didn't help, you know, right? Um, it was definitely a

01:08:29nasty, nasty knockout. Yeah. It was obviously the detached retina. That's what Bisping has pointed

01:08:36to, uh, as the cause of him losing the vision in that eye, but I, you know, there's been,

01:08:41I don't know, depending on who you ask, it sounds like there was some concerns about maybe was there

01:08:46something that kind of, he came into the fight with. Um, I don't know. Um, but yeah, obviously

01:08:51devastating kick. You got to see, I think Vitor Belfort, the peak of his, um, middleweight powers

01:08:57that the, in the TRT tour era, as, as it is, uh, mostly referred to as for, I think we know why.

01:09:05Um, basically what, one, another thing that I wanted to point out for this fight for, it wasn't

01:09:10just so that you could see, okay, this is the root of what happened with Michael Bisping and his eye

01:09:14and that kind of thing. Um, but also, uh, I don't know if you guys understood just how popular Vitor

01:09:20Belfort was in Brazil, but the, the, the chance of Ole with Vitor Vitor in there, I mean, they were

01:09:28both stiferous. People love him in Brazil. He's a monster star. And that was part of why when he did

01:09:35fight Anderson Silva and then beat Anderson, or Anderson Silva beat him, Silva gained so much in

01:09:41his own country because he gained all of that star. He basically took his aura in Brazil and became a

01:09:49mega star as opposed to, Hey, he's a pretty darn good fighter. Yeah. It was, it was a lot like

01:09:53that. Um, very fascinating fight in that sense. Um, but obviously there were a lot of fights in

01:09:59that area. This was just, again, it's the Vitor Belfort circa 2010s experience. Yeah. And I, I will say

01:10:06having you said that, that does rejog some of the, I caught that in the fight, like when it cuts to

01:10:11the crowd shots of them afterwards and I, I did Vitor Vitor. So that's a good point. I didn't realize

01:10:18how popular he was in Brazil. Yeah. Mega star. What do we have up next? Since we don't have any

01:10:25fights this weekend, do we have a bigger homework assignment, Scott? I think, you know, you do.

01:10:30It is the Mirko Crow Cop experience. I've been waiting to do this one for a while. And obviously

01:10:36we don't have that major fight card to talk about. There are certainly fights, um, on the smaller

01:10:41promotion throughout the world, that kind of thing. But I've put together an 11 fight card for you guys

01:10:47to watch all Mirko Crow Cop all the time. And we're going to go in order. Heath Herring,

01:10:51the fight against him in 2003 against Igor Vovchanchin, same year against Dos Karras Jr,

01:10:59who I don't know if you're aware of who that is, guys. That is former WWE champion Alberto Del Rio

01:11:04in 2003, same year. Yes. He was, he moonlighted as a fighter as well. Wow. Yes. I did not know that.

01:11:11Surprise. Welcome to the show. Uh, then we got 2004 fights. We've got Ron Waterman, uh,

01:11:20Shungo Oyama and Alexander Emelianenko, the brother of Fedor. 2005 fights. We got Mark Coleman

01:11:27and Ibrahim, uh, Magomedov. 2006. We got a couple of fights, including Hirohiko Yoshida

01:11:33and Vanderlei Silva. And then 2007, we're going to wrap up with Gabriel Gonzaga, his UFC debut.

01:11:40That is quite a list of, uh, of fights. I'm pretty excited for it. They're all,

01:11:46look, you're not going to wait around long for each of these fights. I'm not sitting you there

01:11:50for, for decisions, frankly, just wait for the fun. Okay, guys. All right. All right. I mean,

01:11:56that's a pretty good way to, uh, put a stamp on that. Scott, what do we have this week in MMA?

01:12:01This week in MMA, nine years ago, uh, on November 27, 2016, Australia time, Alexander Volkanovski

01:12:10made his UFC debut with a victory on home soil against Melbourne, or in Melbourne, I should say,

01:12:17second round TKO of Yusuke Katsuya, the start of an amazing career from the great.

01:12:23Cue the flute of, uh, down under. Uh, and then if people are looking for one more fight, because I

01:12:31mean, if there's any weekend for one more fight, it's this one, Scott, what do we got?

01:12:36So I'll be honest. There was not a lot of promotions that are airing domestically that I was all that

01:12:41like hyped about and wanted to mention here. So I'm just going with one fight that's in Costa Rica.

01:12:47I don't even know if you can watch it in America, but it's at TNX, uh, 1125 is the name of this

01:12:53event, but it features my bantamweight prospect, women's bantamweight prospect from that special.

01:12:58We did Regina Tarin. She is fighting, uh, Yuriva Jimenez in a flyweight co-main event. So it's her

01:13:04first fight since she had to withdraw from a planned Dana weight contender series fight. But I'm curious

01:13:09about that one because I did highlight her as the prospect there. Fair enough. And you've been doing

01:13:14pretty good with your prospect so far. Besides, I believe Shamil Gazeev was, eh, we don't talk

01:13:18about that one. No, I didn't have him. Oh, okay. Nevermind then. Excuse me. No, although I believe

01:13:23my bantamweight prospect, who was the LFA champion, um, Pierce, I forget his first name. Um, but he did

01:13:28lose. So the, that was, that was the one I actually took a loss on, but it is. My featherweight

01:13:33prospect, Leroy Murphy looks great. Prospect. Dude, he's going places, man. I like this young

01:13:41up-and-comer. Alrighty. I think these folks have had, uh, enough, uh, hearing from us for, for this,

01:13:47uh, Wednesday special of Against the Cage because of Thanksgiving. So happy Thanksgiving, uh, to

01:13:53everyone tomorrow. Hope you enjoy Scott Fontana, Eric Richter, uh, happy Thanksgiving to you and yours,

01:13:59and I will see you guys next week.

Who's next for Ilia Topuria? The race between Paddy Pimblett and Arman Tsarukyan | Against the Cage

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