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00:00All right. It's great to be back solo for the second straight week. We do miss Joel Sherman,
00:04who normally runs the show. I'm happy to be here replacing him. My co-host will be Sean Casey,
00:11my favorite. Don't tell anybody else at MLB Network, a terrific analyst, a 300 plus lifetime
00:18editor. We'll find out exactly how much over 300 he was and ask him a lot of questions. It'll be
00:23terrific having him co-host for me. But our guest is a very special one, Don Mattingly,
00:28who did a terrific job as a bench coach for the Blue Jays, managed for 12 years in the Major
00:34Leagues. I think he's still going to keep going, doing something, whether it be managing, coaching,
00:38whatever. He's up for the Hall of Fame, deserving the Hall of Fame. I know the back knocked him out
00:43prematurely, but it's a guy who had 312 in the Major Leagues, won an MVP, won a batting title.
00:50And we're going to talk to Mattingly about that World Series, what he's going to do next.
00:54If you stick with us on the show with John Heyman and Sean Casey.
00:58It is my pleasure to bring in Sean Casey, the mayor. He's called the mayor because he's the
01:08nicest guy. Although I think we had a poll at MLB Network, right? And you might have finished
01:12second. Did you hear about that? I think Lauren Shahadi. Did you know that? She's the nicest. She
01:18wins. Shahadi wins. You're just as nice. You should have been one in 1A, but I think you did
01:23second officially. So he is the mayor for a reason. He's everybody's friend. Sean Casey,
01:30302 lifetime batting average too. Not many guys have a 302 average. Even in your day,
01:35there weren't a lot of guys hitting that 302 for your average, for your career. So it's a pleasure
01:40to bring you in as my co-host. Joel Sherman is out this week. He deserved vacation. It was a tough run
01:46for us. But what did you think? You were there too. What do you think of this World Series,
01:52these playoffs, and where baseball is at right now? Yeah. Well, first off, Johnny, thanks for
01:56having me on. Second off, you're right. Sherm needs a vacation probably every month. That guy
02:00needs a vacation. I need a vacation from him. No. It's worked out great for both you guys.
02:07Yeah, exactly. You know what? That World Series, I was there at game six and seven when you know,
02:12had a chance to be around it. I thought it was one of the best World Series ever. You know,
02:16and I think one of the things, there's so many different takeaways. Obviously, we have the IKF
02:20play not scoring and some missed opportunities for the Blue Jays in game seven. But when you think
02:26about Yamamoto getting a chance to pitch, I think it was game two and then game six and then come back
02:32with no days, no days rest and throw like 30, 40 pitches in game seven to kind of keep the game
02:39where it was. Johnny, I felt like that was the difference. I mean, we could talk about this play,
02:43that play. But when you have a weapon like Yamamoto and how nasty he was during that postseason,
02:48I mean, I think that was the X factor. Yeah, of course, I expect you to emphasize a positive
02:55at Yamamoto when he was the deserved MVP. There were so many close plays that the Blue Jays could
03:00look back on, I guess, negatively. They played fantastic. They were a great team. They had a great
03:05season. They killed the Yankees in the division series. They won the LCS with that great home run
03:11by Springer. And they really did outplay the Dodgers. So I got to give them credit. And I feel
03:17I actually legitimately felt bad for them when I was in their clubhouse afterward. It was something
03:22else. You did play in the World Series, right? And I wanted to ask you, as a guy who played in the
03:27World Series, now you played very well. I think you hit, forget 302, you think you hit about 550 in
03:31that World Series. But the rest of your teammates, they didn't do anything. What happened? I know
03:35you had a timeout, right? You had such a good team that you won so easily in the LCS and you had so
03:41much time. What year was that again? That was 2006. And it's funny because this is that same
03:49situation this year with the Dodgers. They swept the Brewers. The Blue Jays went to game seven with
03:56the Mariners with that same situation. And the only four other times that's happened that the one team
04:01swept. The other team went to seven games. Every time the team that went to seven games won it.
04:05This is the first time that a team didn't with the Dodgers. When I go back to that World Series,
04:10I don't know. We just couldn't. You know, Johnny, you know, brother, playing Major League Baseball,
04:15this is a game of rhythm, man. This is a game of every single night you're playing. There's no days
04:19off, really. A couple days here and there, but most of those are travel days. So you get into a rhythm
04:24visually. You get into a rhythm physically and mentally. And all of a sudden, you get, you know,
04:29you get that six, seven days off. I know for me, sometimes at the All-Star break,
04:33if I wasn't in the All-Star game, coming back after the break, it always took me a couple days
04:37to get going. And you don't have time if it's in the World Series. I look back at that World Series
04:41in 06. I still felt like we were the better team, but we got beaten five games by the Cardinals.
04:46We were 1-1 going to game, going back to St. Louis, and we lost three in a row. And
04:52just a tough pill to swallow. We had eight. Talk about not giving teams extra outs in the World
04:58Series. We had eight errors in that World Series. Five from our pitchers, PFP where balls were just
05:04flying down the first baseline, down the third baseline. And, you know, we just weren't able to
05:09do what we needed to do. And then the Cardinals end up winning. Still bothers me,
05:13Johnny, 19 years later. Can't believe it. Sorry to bring it up. Yeah, I know that Tigers team,
05:18not only did you feel that you were the better team, everybody felt you were the better team
05:22that year, right? The Cardinals weren't that good in the regular season. They played great,
05:26obviously a great postseason, you know, surprise teams, the Mets included, but your team was an
05:32overwhelming favorite. And it does go to that argument. Is it better to, you know, to have that
05:37time off or maybe it's not, maybe it's a disadvantage to be so good that you've eliminated that previous
05:42team. Now, now, obviously that was not, even though you were great, that was not one of our
05:45better World Series. Where do you, this World Series was fantastic though, with all the different
05:49things that happened, that liner that Muncie caught, the grounder that Miguel Rojas fielded and
05:56barely caught IKF at the plate. Great play by Pais. I mean, the double, a double and up barger in game
06:04six to end the game with the, you know, that pick by Rojas and the key case playing, you know,
06:09was short in there, 18 innings in game three. Then they, then you come back extra innings in
06:14game seven. It was just, and then also too, thinking back like Muncie homers, you know,
06:20they, they, they just, they trickled back Muncie Rojas, Will Smith. It was like, it wasn't anything
06:25crazy, but it was like a solo, solo, solo win it. You know, it was just, it was an incredible
06:30World Series all around. Yeah. Where does it rank for you? Uh, you know, my head was buried in the
06:36computer, so I, I kind of missed it. I was trying to write my story, uh, but I've gone back and
06:41looked at it. It looked fantastic. Uh, I think it's, yeah, I think it's one of the greatest ever.
06:46And I know that you obviously were really close during that 2001 World Series. That's what I
06:51went back to. I went back to, man, what's a World Series that had everything and kind of didn't end
06:56up the way you thought it was going to end up was the 2001 World Series when the, the, the D-backs
07:02came back and, and beat Mariano Rivera that Luis Gonzalez hit in the ninth in game seven.
07:08I was just in, in, uh, you know, in Arizona, this was that, that same kind of feel. I really
07:13believe the Blue Jays outplayed the Dodgers. As a matter of fact, the stats say, I think
07:17it was five of seven games. They outplayed them, but at the end of the day, they didn't
07:21get the, you know, the big number that they needed was, was first one to four wins wins.
07:26And, uh, you know, I think, I think it was one of the top three World Series of all
07:30time. I don't know if it's the greatest, but you know, cause it's so fresh in our
07:34minds. I feel like it's definitely one of the best of all time.
07:37Yeah. I mean, that old one was fantastic. The 91 before your time and fantastic. That
07:42went to game seven. That was that pitcher's duel with Smoltz.
07:44Yeah. I remember that. Yeah.
07:46Right. With Smoltz and Morris going to the end. Uh, one thing Mad Dog was on last week
07:50and he pointed out that the memorable moments in this World Series were most, the
07:54positive, memorable, positive moments were mostly by the team that eventually won the
07:59Dodgers, the Freeman home run, the home run by Miggy Rowe, the home run by Will
08:03Smith, uh, you know, the catch by pies, the plays that was the winning team. The
08:08one thing about the old one World Series, and it was fantastic series. And there's
08:11no question about it. The memorable moments, the Jeter home run, the home runs that won
08:15the extra innings, uh, against their reliever, Kim, I believe those, those were by ended
08:20up being by the losing team. Uh, this one ended up being by the winning team. That's a
08:24mad dog thing. Only he would have thought of it, but I kind of, I kind of see the
08:28point to it and why that might be, uh, considered the better World Series. What about overall
08:32baseball? Where do you think baseball is right now? Are you worried? Uh, I know you
08:37work in baseball still. You have, uh, uh, the mayor's office, which is a fantastic podcast
08:41that you do with my friend Chinch, who also works at the New York Post. Yay, New York
08:45Post. Uh, what do you think? Are we concerned that, uh, we're going to have a work stoppage
08:50at the time? We had 51 million people watching this World Series. It was not only a great
08:54World Series. It was a World Series that was popular and watched by everyone. Uh, and
08:59it would seem like it would be a shame if, uh, they weren't able to work this out.
09:03Yeah. It would be a shame if there was a work stoppage. It really would be. That would
09:06not, not be good for baseball, not be good for the fans for baseball in general. Play
09:10it. Nobody wouldn't be good for anybody. And I, I agree with you, Joe. I think the game's
09:15in the, in one of the greatest places it's ever been. I really do that, you know, you saw
09:18the viewership of the World Series. Um, I think you have a legit, you have two generational
09:24players on each coast. You have Aaron judge on the East coast and on both coasts. And
09:30you got Shohei Otani on the West coast, two generational, two of the greatest players this
09:36game will ever see kind of leading the way winning MVPs and leading their club. So, uh,
09:42there's a lot of great young players in the game. Um, the, I think the analytics, um, also
09:47two kind of brings the fan in a little bit more when you guys are learning more about
09:50the game, there's more interest in the game of baseball. And, uh, I just really think it's
09:55in a great place. Uh, I think they've done a great job with the pitch clock. I think the,
09:59the, the clock has shortened the games, which I think has made it more interesting to, um,
10:04looking forward to the ABS system next year with a couple of the challenges to see how that
10:09goes. I think that's going to elevate the game. So I think, I think, uh, I think overall
10:14the game's in a great place. Uh, I'm with you. Uh, and I, I love the challenge system.
10:19Uh, you always knew when a strike was thrown to you, right? When you were hitting them,
10:22you know, I'd like to think I did. I like to think not always. Well, I think they're going
10:27to take that out of the pitcher's hand, right? They're going to, most teams are going to
10:30just say the catcher should decide because the catchers know. And I know that Barnes who
10:34was cut eventually, but in spring training, uh, the catcher for the Dodgers Barnes, he was
10:38like 10 for 10 on the challenge. I think, I think that's what teams need to do and not
10:42let the pitcher or even the hitter, hitter decide, let, let the catchers be the ones that
10:47really decide this. Some, some cases, if it's a key play, key pitch, uh, the hitter, I think
10:53we'll have to decide for the, uh, offense. So anyway, I, it's, uh, you have such great
10:58insight. It's great having you on baseball's in a great spot. We just got off a great world
11:02series and we have a great guest, uh, who was in that world series. Uh, and we'll talk
11:08to him about how disappointed he was, how, uh, about his fantastic career. And he's up
11:12for the hall of fame now. So great timing to have Don Mattingly, uh, who was your idol,
11:18one of your main, two main idols growing up and I covered him with the Yankees. So
11:23he's a perfect guest for Sean and for myself, uh, Don Mattingly, uh, next on the show with
11:28John Heyman.
11:35It is now my pleasure to welcome in, uh, Don Mattingly, who is a former MVP, six time
11:40all-star. He's up for the hall of fame, uh, with the veterans committee ballot, not sure
11:45they still call it veterans committee, but modern era certainly is deserving. Uh, full
11:50disclosure. I voted for him every single time. Uh, he should be in the hall of fame, uh, but
11:54lots to talk about with Don and we're really a pleasure to, to bring him in one of the best
11:58guys in baseball, 14 year major league career MVP batting title. I think it was a 312 lifetime
12:06batting average, something like that. Pretty good. Uh, manager for 12 years, coach for another
12:1110. And anyway, welcome in Donnie. Uh, you've been here before and I appreciate your coming
12:16back.
12:17No, I appreciate you having me on John.
12:19All right. Let's get right to it. That world series, that season, uh, it was something else.
12:24You were a bench coach for the, for the blue Jays and for, uh, John Schneider. Uh, you were
12:29his idol growing up. He really seemed to grow into that role and do a great job, but how do you
12:33look back on it? Obviously it was a very heartbreaking, uh, world series. I never saw a clubhouse that
12:39broken up and I get it. I just, I mean, they had it. Uh, but looking back, it was quite a season by
12:45the blue Jays. How do you process the whole thing? Are you looking at it positively or are you still
12:50kind of thinking, wow, we could have done it? Uh, probably all of the above, uh, definitely positive.
12:57What a, what a team pleasure to be a part of that, be a part of John's staff, be with those guys.
13:03Um, we talked a little bit about before we started, but this is a great group of guys
13:08from kind of top to bottom. I thought Snides did a great job of uniting not only the staff,
13:15but the players, uh, kind of, uh, emboldened these guys to be themselves, uh, but show up and play
13:23and get, and get better all the time. So it was fun. It was great. Um, yeah, so it's definitely a positive,
13:31um, obviously disappointed when you don't win. Uh, you know, feel like we played good enough to
13:39win, you know, ball bounces here or there. Uh, you never know, but you know, at the end of the
13:45day, the Dodgers won, they, they got the hits when they needed them there late. Um, but obviously we
13:50were, we were right there. Donnie, I want to talk a little bit about, you know, just watching your team
13:55play all year long. You obviously being the bench coach role. I know you talk, took more to with,
14:01with the hitters, more of a role with the hitters too. Um, I want to ask you like when I watched that
14:06lineup, it felt like a Don Mattingly lineup. It really did. It, as far as like working at bats,
14:12tough at bats, putting the ball in play, but it could still take you out of the ballpark.
14:16Could you talk about the hitting philosophy nowadays in 2025? And what was your hitting philosophy
14:22with these guys, as far as putting the ball in play and, and, and the tough at bats that they
14:26had throughout the year? Well, I can't say it's my hitting philosophy, honestly. Uh, David Popkins,
14:33um, Lou, I, I naughty and, and Hunter minutes who just got the job in San Francisco. These guys did
14:41a tremendous job of uniting that whole group. And I think that was the theme. It's kind of like,
14:47I think one of the t-shirts that kind of get going during the course of the season was nine
14:51against one. And so it was a group thing. And it was a lot of the same club that we had the year
14:59before that could put the ball in play. But I feel like this group united in the fact of like, Hey,
15:04we're getting pitches to hit, we're turning it loose. Uh, if we don't get pitches to hit early,
15:09we won't. But I think what these guys were able to accomplish, and I, and I'm going to say the hitting
15:15group, cause that group did a tremendous job. Um, and it was, it was a tough lineup. Right.
15:22And it was just that we, we put the ball in play and you could really see it against pitchers like,
15:27uh, Terry Skubel, uh, Max Fried, Rodan, the guys that were really top of the elite guys.
15:36We made these guys work. We frustrated them. You could see it. And not the fact that we went in
15:41saying, Hey, we've got to work them. It was just that we fouled off pitches. We fouled off pitches.
15:46You know, they didn't get the strikeouts they were used to. Um, there was an at bat that Bo had
15:51against Tariq Skubel in Detroit. I think it was 13 or 14 pitches ended up being either a walk or a hit,
15:58but I mean, he was fouling off pitches, changed up slider, just fighting. And that kind of embodied
16:06what we were this year. Yeah, I'm with you. Popkins, I hear only fantastic things about the
16:12team hit two 65 best in baseball, second, a few strikeouts to Kansas city, really a fantastic
16:19season all around. You eliminated the Yankees. You played really well in the world series,
16:23actually outplayed the Dodgers, outscored them. Uh, but you know, as I mentioned that, that, uh,
16:29clubhouse was as broken up as I've ever seen it. Two clubhouses that stand out for me after a losing
16:34world series, 2001, uh, Yankees, they were stunned. They were just shocked that they had lost that to
16:40the Diamondbacks and, and the Jays last year, how upset they were, which I get it. I mean,
16:45you have a three, nothing lead, a four, one, four, two, and you have pitchers coming in who've been
16:49really dominant and outstanding. And they each gave up one run. None of them were terrible, but
16:54the Dodgers just kept pecking away that home run by Rojas, who I know you managed when you were with
17:00the Dodgers and know very well. And then the home run by Will Smith. But I want to ask you,
17:04you handled it very professionally. You've been around a while, as you mentioned, uh, 40 years
17:08in baseball. Um, how, how was it for you afterward to, to, to try to peel it all away and, and, and,
17:15and think about what happened or not think about what happened. Uh, and I mean, does anything stand
17:21out for you in particular? Obviously there was the liner right at Muncie. There was that great play in
17:26left center by Pies. And a lot of people are making a big deal out of IKF and he should have had a bigger
17:30lead. Was there anything in particular that stood out for you that you really thought about and said,
17:35you know what, we could have done this differently. Yeah. I think though, number one, the clubhouse
17:41was absolutely, I wouldn't call it done because the Dodgers got a great team, you know, so that we're
17:47not stunned that you don't win that thing in a game seven, anything can happen. I felt more like
17:55people made a kind of little bit, I seen a little bit of a big deal. Like I was sitting there and
17:59Bo came up to me at the end of the thing. I I'm not sad for myself. I, it was exhilarating
18:05month, exhausting month. Uh, so great with my family being there the whole time. So that was,
18:13that part of it was tremendous. The pain you felt was for each guy because that team, and I've said it
18:21a lot, they were so invested in each other and winning, doing everything that each guy could do
18:30to win. And when you've laid it off, when I told you, we laid it all out there, these guys laid it
18:37out there and then they came up short and that's what that locker room was to me. Um, and at the end
18:44of the day, you can't feel bad about that club because they, what do we ask people to do? Lay it
18:52on the line, give us everything you got. And then you are a winner, no matter what happens. If you won
19:00or lose, you can't tell me that the blue, that blue J team is not a winner. Those guys aren't winners
19:05because what they, the way they played, how they went about it. So plain and simple for me, those guys
19:12are the winners and they did everything they could. And that's why the locker room is like, it is
19:15the one play. I mean, a lot of little plays, right? In that series, great plays, both sides,
19:22right? The, the 18 game, some of the relays the Dodgers made with, with Tao into, uh, the second
19:29base is losing him right now. Uh, Tommy Edmonds, that play barges throw Vlad's play across the diamond
19:38when he comes up and takes a short hop and throws a skipper across the field to get a guy at third,
19:43the barger play, the ball he hits in left center that gets stuck under the wall.
19:48For me, that's what that straw scores. And we got a guy at second and we probably put him over.
19:55And so we get both runs and probably tie that game up. Right. But that didn't happen.
20:01One, you said at the Jimenez line drive, we're up to guy on second, we're going to move him,
20:07but then snide, you know, kind of takes their, they're crashing everywhere. And him, he hits a
20:12line drive right at Muncie. That's probably a double in the corner. We're up five to another guy on
20:18second, uh, and a chance to move a runner, get a guy in. So you see lots of little things, the one
20:24play, the IKF play. And I think it's played properly because you got the bases loaded. You got one out.
20:30The infield is totally drawn in. So you're not in a contact situation there. Right. You got to
20:37at least freeze on a line drive. Uh, and if you really look at that video, Kirk, he's in the
20:41perfect spot. He's about a foot off the base. Like IKF because of our show, he does pull the ball.
20:48So I'd say the one thing that we kind of missed and I'd say myself, snide third base is that
20:55Marshall does not line up to the base. He does not hit the line drives on that side of the field.
21:00Really. And so you can get a little bit more. Uh, but if it was a right hand hitter, IKF's
21:06probably right where he should be. And so I would say that's kind of on all of us for not picking
21:12that up in the moment. It's tough in the moment. A lot of stuff going on, right? You're thinking
21:18games on the line and all this has happened. We're in the extra inning or bottom of the ninth,
21:22I think they're right. Uh, that part, the Varsha one there. So anyway, that's probably the one play
21:29that you feel like, Hmm, if we really looked at that over again, had, had a little split second,
21:35more time and said, Hey, we can be off further at third because Varsha is not lining out the third.
21:41If he lines out the first, we can get back. Right. We got a little more time. So that's the one
21:46thing I think that you change, but not my KS fault. It's probably all of our faults.
21:50Donnie, when you look at that world series too, yes. So many little plays and gosh,
21:55we all know of playing this game for so long when you're giving the other team those chances
21:59and you don't capitalize, usually it comes back to bite you. It's like just incredible watching it.
22:03The one guy that I thought kind of went to another level and I felt like the, the, the,
22:08that, that country was behind was Vlad Guerrero jr. I mean, can you talk about just him in that
22:15lineup, what he meant to that team? And you got a chance to be with him every day, you know,
22:19watching him go and do his thing. Yeah. Vlad is an incredible player and he's taken,
22:23he's become more and more of a leader. He started last year before last season. You could see him
22:30starting to speak up, understand his role and his importance within that group and needed to
22:35use his voice. He started doing that a little bit more. It's more by example than anything,
22:40but he took it to a different level. Like you said, in the playoffs,
22:45he kind of struggled a little bit down the stretch. I felt like he was trying so hard because Bo was
22:52hurt. You know, we're trying to clinch the Yankees are rolling. They're, they're chasing
22:57and they're catching it. They're, you know, they're keep creeping on us. I thought Vlad tried to do too
23:01much a little bit, but he, he got to the playoffs. And I remember I kept saying to him every day,
23:08I said, it's your time, Vlad, your time. This is your time. He is so good that when those kinds of
23:15guys catch a feel, it's over. And when, when they catch that feel, it lasts. It's not like a couple
23:23of games. It's an extended period of time. He did it the year before he got hot second half and held
23:31it the whole time. It was crazy hot. So he's an incredible player defensively and offensively,
23:39and now becoming more and more of a leader. The Blue Jays are in a good spot with him there,
23:43being there a long period of time because he plays with joy too, you know, which is important. He
23:49plays, he has that smile on his face and the country loves him. The city loves him. Yeah. He's so
23:56important to that organization. He was amazing. The Yankee series throughout the entire playoffs,
24:02just incredible job. One thing I didn't realize, what a confident thrower like you were to every
24:08base, to second, to third, to home. And of course, even the tosses to first. And, and he's a good
24:14base runner as well. I mean, he's really an all around player and I'm glad that everybody got to see
24:19that. And we could talk about the world series forever at this point, but I want to talk about
24:24another first baseman and that's you. I'm glad we have a- I like talking about these other guys.
24:29I know. I know. I'm sorry. I'm sorry, Don. I know you. I know you. We have the Veterans Committee
24:37now. I'm glad we have the Veterans Committee. I voted for Fred McGriff every year. I voted for Dave
24:41Parker every year. They, and they, and everybody else, not everybody, but they got very few votes
24:46from the writers and the Veterans Committee corrected it. And I'm hoping, hopeful that the Veterans
24:51Committee will correct it and, and, and put you in the Hall of Fame this time. It's a, it's a stack
24:56ballot. I don't personally, or you can say what you want on this. I don't agree that Bonds and
25:01Clemens need to be on the, and Sheffield need to be on the ballot again. I want to honor the guys who
25:06did it right. And you certainly did do it right. And I mean, you've been very good about this. If I
25:12were you, I'd been screaming forever about not being in the Hall of Fame, but what's your thoughts on
25:16the Hall of Fame, the ballot and everything else? Well, I will say, I hope I get in. Obviously
25:22everybody wants, would like to be recognized for that. Uh, I think I've understood over the years.
25:28And when I, I decided to kind of stop a little bit early, I probably had, you know, three or four,
25:35maybe five years left in me, but I made some decisions based on family that I, that I don't
25:41regret at all. So I know that I'm leaving, you know, five years of numbers and I call them kind
25:47of like tack on numbers at the end of your career. How many more hits do you get? How many more ribbies,
25:53whatever, uh, that type of thing. So I've always thought I played my cards already, you know,
26:00and I'm not a politicker or anything like that. I'm not going to go out and say I belong.
26:04But recently, as you get older, I think you, you find like a little bit more nerve in you or
26:11whatever it is. But I think about it, like, there's never been a guy like, and I, I would
26:17look at anybody in the hall of fame and obviously didn't see them all pitchers and play against all
26:20of them. Like if I see a pitcher in there, anybody in there, I feel like I could hit anybody. Right.
26:27And I feel like that in general, and not that I would just kill anybody in there, but I know I
26:32would figure it out over time that I would, I would put swings on guys. And I've also said,
26:38and I said on a Dan Patrick show that if you were at a bunch of guys playing in the same lot and the
26:44hall of famers were all out there and you're all playing, I don't feel like I would look like I
26:48was out of place on the field. I feel like you put me at first and I don't mind saying this. I feel
26:54like I was as good as anybody that played first base. And I know Keith was great. And there's been
26:58a lot of great first basemen, JT Snow, guys that I've kind of grew in playing. I've seen guys lately
27:04talk about Vlad and different guys, but I feel like I could play first base with anybody.
27:09So that's kind of my thoughts on it. Again, I don't want to, if it doesn't happen,
27:14it's not going to change who I am, what I think about things. No bitterness is going to be in
27:20there, but you know, you hope you hope you get that opportunity. Donnie, I'll tell you what,
27:25I'm hoping, man, I had all your posters growing up in my, in my, in my, I still got them in my
27:30parents' house. My Don Madeline posters still up there. And I know a lot of us in, in, in your
27:35generation watching you play, man, you did it right. You played it hard. You were the best in
27:39the business for a long period there. I hope Cooperstown gets it right and, and, and get you
27:44in. And I want to ask you a question because you know, you've, you've had such a unique career,
27:5040 years in the game. You've been one of the best players. You've been one of the best managers.
27:54You were on the, one of the best teams this year as the bench coach. And you've watched this game
27:59evolve, which is really awesome. How is the game in a good spot, Donnie? I know it's different than
28:04when maybe you and I played, but what do you love about the game now? And, and what are some things
28:09that you might, you might think are, aren't as good as when, when you played? It's absolutely in a good
28:14spot. I think if you, if you watch closely, these guys are so athletic. I mean, the plays that we see
28:22like on a nightly basis, guys taking homers away, uh, making plays, I think athletically,
28:29the game has continued to evolve, which naturally will do. There's better training. There's better,
28:37just about, we got better nutrition for the players. We got better recovery for the players.
28:41It gives them an opportunity to be better and better. So if I would say, well, are these players
28:47better than Mickey Mantle or Joe DiMaggio or whoever, right? Whoever we want to talk about,
28:54I would say if you give Joe DiMaggio and Mickey Mantle and, and whoever the same training methods
29:01and deal with the same things, they would have evolved and been unbelievable in the same way.
29:07I do think the game's in a good spot. Um, there are certain things, obviously as a older player,
29:13an older person that I don't love, I don't love some of the, you know, the kind of all about me look
29:21to it. You know, I, I, I, I don't mind it. I just don't like sometimes the sportsmanship of it.
29:30I don't feel like it's a great representation to our young players, little league moving up that.
29:37Is this what we, it looks like you're, it just seems like bad sportsmanship sometimes,
29:44uh, the things that guys do. And I know both sides are okay with it now. Like pitchers,
29:52if the player that flips things, they don't mind. And, and players don't seem to mind if the pitcher
29:59does something, they, they seem to all be okay with it. So that part's good. Right. But I still
30:05don't like the look sometimes as an older player. Um, I would like the game to kind of stay
30:12a little better fundamentally. I think we've gotten away from certain things at certain times
30:18and some of it's put the ball in play, understand when there's times to put the ball in play. It
30:24doesn't mean you're not, you don't need to drive the ball and nobody ever. And I talked to you,
30:30Sean, I guarantee you never went up there and go, hope I can roll a ball through the hole here.
30:34You're trying to get the ball hard, right? You're trying to get the ball hard. And that's what
30:38you all try to, but there are times in the game that says, Hey, I need to put this ball in play
30:43somehow. So have that as part of your tool belt, right? To be able to do, uh, we've kind of gotten
30:50away. I think base running fundamentals have gotten a little shaky, um, just because we don't pay
30:56attention to it there for a while. It was like, Hey, we don't want nobody to steal or don't get thrown
31:01out. So I don't think there's as much attention to that detail as that there could be. Um, we tried
31:07to push it, you try to push it, but you would like more. I would like more detail in the fundamentals
31:13of playing the game. Um, those little things, right. That seemed to get overlooked a little
31:18bit, but in general, the game's in a great spot, great athletes. The guys are good guys. Like I always
31:26felt like players, these guys are good people, good guys. Um, yeah. So I'd say the game's in a
31:32good spot. Yeah. I'm with you on all that. And your team certainly was filled with good guys.
31:36Ernie Clement. I love Vlad, uh, just a really good group overall. And, uh, you know, I certainly
31:42understand why they were devastated at the end. Uh, of course, um, I will apologize. I didn't have
31:48your poster up in my wall. I am older than you. So I had, I had Mickey Mantle on the wall and then
31:54Mercer, better choice. All right. You did all right for yourself. Last question again,
32:00we'll be on you. So you won't, you won't love this, but I appreciate you staying over. I appreciate
32:04you coming on. Uh, but I do want to ask you, uh, why the decision to move on and what might you do
32:12next? I do think that the Phillies are at least one team and I'm probably many others that would
32:16love you on their staff. I know the Yankee fans want you back in New York. They'll say you belong as
32:21a Yankee. Uh, where is Don Mattingly now with what you're going to be doing from now on? And
32:26you are younger than me, so I'm still working. So I know you can still work.
32:29Yeah, I still, I feel good. My brain's still working for the most part. I lose more names
32:34away from me. Uh, the Toronto thing, I'll address that one first. I kind of knew before the season,
32:42right. That when, you know, I left Miami, I thought this is probably it for me. Right. And I,
32:49you know, kind of walked away from there and felt like it was time for a new voice down there. And
32:53in Miami, I kind of walked away from that and then, and really thought I'd be home and coaching
32:58little league or doing whatever. Right. Um, and then the Toronto called, right. And Ross called
33:05and talked about the situation with Snide being a, you know, a young year, young manager took over
33:11for Charlie the year before, um, wanted some veteran presence around him just to help just kind of
33:18be another voice and a set of eyes. And so it was interesting. It was nice to be wanted,
33:25right. Toronto wanted me. I felt like the purpose was good. It felt, you know, good for that. I knew
33:31they had a pretty good team, right. You had Vlad and Bo and some guys that could swing the bat. So
33:36it was going to be a good team. Um, but like before the season started this year, I kind of knew that
33:41Snide was where he, he, he did not need me anymore. He was past that point where I was
33:48feeling like I was needed really, or that useful, right. In game. Yeah. I may be here or there,
33:55but in general, he knew what he wanted to do. Right. And he, he had it together. And so I knew it was
34:02time for me really before the season started. Um, so that's kind of way that went down. I will say
34:09a couple of things that have kind of changed that a little bit. Louie loves being around. My youngest
34:15son loves being around the ballpark this year. And that just started like he could get, he was old
34:21enough to go to the park with me. He could hit in the cage. He ended up being able to shag on the field
34:25some, and then the other kids around, they just played. So he's around baseball all the time and
34:31loved it. So that, and he was like, dad, you got going, right. That makes that a little tougher.
34:36Right. But still I knew Toronto was that for me had ran its course. Um, and so now where do we go
34:45from here? I mean, there's some, I have had some contact, um, nothing official. I just put it like
34:53that. There's nothing official. Um, but I am excited about the, the opportunity that I think is going to
35:00be there. Um, but nothing official. Okay. Very good. Let's leave it at that. That's terrific.
35:06Don, I appreciate the time that you've given us again. I knew you and Sean would be a great combo.
35:11Sean, also a first baseman, by the way, Sean had over 300 in his career.
35:15I watched Sean. He's at the way. He don't get off free here. I watched him. I watched those
35:22happy feet. You could outrun Sean. Believe me. Anyway, John, you could outrun me. I'm not an
35:34athlete. And you're, you know, I couldn't run outrun any athlete, but Johnny, I want to say one
35:38thing. I got to say Donnie before he goes, but Donnie, I had a, I had an incredible article. I,
35:44I, like I told you, I had you and Will Clark were my two guys. You're the reason I really
35:48seriously, I'm not kidding. You wanted to play major league baseball, but in the article you had
35:53said one day, you said, you know what? They're like, you at times you're, you're either a great
35:58hitter. You're not, but defensively anyone can get great. If you put the work in. And I just want
36:03to tell you, I feel like my defensively, I went to another level and I always had Don Mattingly on my
36:08shoulder saying, Hey, if you put the work in, you could become a great defender. And so I appreciate that,
36:13man. It really was impacted my career. You didn't know it, but you were on my right shoulder. Every
36:16time I was taking grounders. Well, you think about it, it's true. You know, they used to say
36:21anybody can play first, but yeah, anybody can stand over there. I don't know if anybody can play it,
36:25but really defense is really about wanting to be a good defender. If you think about it,
36:32if you want to be a good defender, you can be, you may not have the speed to play center field
36:36or whatever, but you can be in the right spot, throw the ball to the right base,
36:40catch everything you're supposed to catch all that. If you want to be a good defender,
36:44you can be, it doesn't mean you're a gold glover, but you're still a good defender.
36:48If you, if you do those things.
36:50Love that.
36:51Interesting. I mean, I, I, I believe it, but it doesn't mean they're going to be a defender
36:55like you. I could still see you pick it up there. I I've seen you play third base as a left
37:00hander, which I don't think anybody else can do. So, you know, you know, not that many great
37:07players were, were great managers and you were, you were that, and you're a great coach as well.
37:11So, and a great guest and we really appreciate you being on Don. It's a, I mean, we felt you
37:16were the perfect guy with Sean. So, and the timing was good and best of luck in, in the hall of fame.
37:23You deserve it. I watched it. So maybe I, maybe I think I know better than other people who were
37:29going by something that doesn't make any sense, like a war number or something like that. But
37:33if you were there and you saw it, you know, that Don Mattingly is a hall of famer and I really
37:38appreciate you being on. It's been our pleasure. And we will have one more segment with Sean and
37:44myself. We're going to do hit or error. When we come back on the show with John Heyman,
37:49with Sean Casey today and Don Mattingly.
37:51All right. Welcome back. And now we're going to do our hit or error, which is our weekly segment.
38:02No, Joe Sherman here, but it's a hit to just have Sean Casey. Casey, is it a hit or an error
38:07for you this week with major league baseball?
38:11Uh, I'd say, I'd say a hit. What would be the, would be the Nimmo and the Simeon trade?
38:17I would say, um, you know, I think it's tough for Mets fans to watch Brandon Nimmo go. Cause
38:23he's such a, you know, a fan favorite, but I do think it does make sense to, for both
38:27of those guys to get, you know, new scenery. I think Texas loves the power bat that Nimmo
38:33is going to bring. And I think Simeon Cummins still being an elite defender winning, I would
38:38just want to go another gold glove. I think, you know, him coming to, uh, you know, New York
38:43is, is a good thing too. And he's also a leader in that clubhouse. So when I look at
38:47it, it's like two aging veterans with different skill sets that I believe also too, if Simeon
38:53could find his swing, he really struggled 2025 was kind of up and down, but I still think
38:58there's more left in the tank. If you go back to 2023, he almost won the MVP. So, uh, you
39:04know, it's a, I think it's a hit for both teams.
39:06Uh, I'm with you. Uh, I, Texas needed the offense. Uh, the Mets, uh, needed defense and
39:14they got that Simeon won the gold glove. Brandon Nimmo knocked in 92 runs, uh, and hit 25 home
39:21runs. So I think it made sense. I know that the Met fans are upset. They love Brandon Nimmo
39:25and understandably. So terrific guy, but I'm with you. I think that was a hit for, uh, for
39:31both, for both teams. Absolutely. Uh, I'm going to do a hit as well. We're very positive.
39:36I figured we would be positive this week with you here, Sean, Joel, Joel being here, being
39:42one of the nicest guys, Joel and I did not get nominated for the nicest. We weren't even
39:48nominated. We're not even on the board. Hey Johnny, they don't know. They don't know
39:52you the way I know you. I know you behind the scenes in the office. You know what I mean?
39:55We were roommates. We were roommates for a year until I got out of there. It was a little
39:59much, too much of a circus for me. So I'm going to give a hit. Uh, my head is for the
40:04veterans committee. I'm glad that they're, they're, uh, reviewing Don Mattingly, Dale
40:09Murphy, uh, Jeff Kent and Fernando Valenzuela and four others. I didn't mention some of the
40:15others because those are some of those others cheated. Uh, I get it. They were great players
40:20as well. Uh, I'm going to be very disappointed. Uh, we'll get the big error if, uh, Barry Bonds
40:26or Roger Clemens or Gary Sheffield, uh, get in the hall of fame instead of Don Mattingly,
40:32not just that he was a hero of Sean and a great guy who I covered. Uh, he was the best player,
40:38arguably the best player in baseball for a half a decade and arguably the greatest first
40:43baseman of all time. I know a lot of people say Keith Hernandez. I think it's a tie Hernandez
40:48and Mattingly, uh, we're the best. So, uh, that's my hit for the week. We're not doing
40:52any errors this week. We're very, very positive. And I appreciate that, Sean. It's been great
40:57having you on. You are an awesome co-host. I will love to have you on any time. And I
41:04wanted to thank Tommy Hogan, our producer for doing a great job, Don Mattingly. Uh, he was
41:09actually a hero of both of us at this point now that I know Don Mattingly, but you loved
41:14him when you were a kid. And I think that's terrific. Mattingly was a fantastic guest with
41:19great timing. I want to remind everybody to catch the show on Spotify, Apple, New York
41:24Post Sports, YouTube channel, or wherever you get your podcasts to check out, uh, New
41:30York Post Sports, nypostsports.com anytime. Uh, it's been my pleasure. It's been a great
41:36week. I really appreciate it, Sean. And, uh, Don was fantastic too. And we will see everybody,
41:41uh, next week.
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