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00:00Is it Jackson Dart or is it going to be Jameis Winston?
00:03Who's going to be QB1 on Monday Night Football?
00:05And I feel like we have now entered the twilight zone.
00:08Life after Shane Bourne has begun, but who is new defense coordinator Charlie Bullen?
00:14We're going to dive into all that, y'all.
00:16This is Blue Rush by the New York Post Sports.
00:24Happy Thanksgiving week, everybody.
00:26I hope you're ready for some week 13 Giants-Patriots action, and that's on Monday Night Football.
00:32It's a primetime game, so that means we're going to get primetime Paul.
00:36Paul Schwartz joins us now for today's episode.
00:39Paul, what's going on, my man?
00:41I guess we can start.
00:42You start, sir.
00:44Go ahead and start us off with this one.
00:46What storylines are left to talk about when it comes to the Giants?
00:53No, there are a lot.
00:54There are, look, in a lot of cities, the storylines are about playoff contention and, you know,
00:59seeding and things like that.
01:01Obviously, there's none of that with the Giants, but there's plenty of storylines.
01:05You know, they're still playing the game on Monday night.
01:06It's hard to believe that it's an extended week.
01:09The Giants have their last primetime game, and it's really remarkable.
01:13We haven't even had the bye yet.
01:14I mean, it's the latest bye I can ever remember, and it's just, you know,
01:19it's going to be after 13 games.
01:21It's really not a bye.
01:23I mean, it's almost a good bye for the Giants, right?
01:25Their season's almost over, and we haven't even had the bye yet.
01:27So that's interesting.
01:29Thanksgiving, you know, right in the middle of this week puts a, you know,
01:33a different vibe to this whole thing.
01:34But, yeah, I mean, a few weeks ago it was, well, many weeks ago it was, okay,
01:40Jackson Dart's going to start.
01:42Let's see where that goes.
01:43Then a few weeks ago it was, okay, Dart can't play.
01:45Jameis Winston's going to play.
01:47Let's see how that goes.
01:48And now, you know, we had the Brian Dable following, firing.
01:52So it's, okay, we have a new head coach with Mike Kafka.
01:55Let's see how that's going to go.
01:56And yet another new wrinkle this week is we have a new defensive coordinator.
02:00Let's see how that's going to go.
02:01So, you know, I will be interested to see if there's any changes on defense this week.
02:07All right.
02:07First up to talk about first order of business is, I guess, Mike Kafka firing Shane Bowen.
02:13I haven't had a chance to talk to you about that.
02:16I guess, you know, you've got sources in the building.
02:18You know, this is something that we've been keeping an eye on for a very long time.
02:23Mike Kafka finally pulled the trigger on that one.
02:26What was your initial thought of Shane Bowen being fired?
02:29And now that it's, you know, a couple of days have gone by.
02:32How do you feel about the Giants going into this Patriots matchup against a Drake May with
02:38Charlie Bowen as, as defense coordinator?
02:41Yeah, look, it had to happen.
02:42And I look, it could have happened to the Giants when they name an interim coach, head coach.
02:49You know, they give that, they don't say, okay, you're going to take over for Brian Dable,
02:54but this is what is going to happen.
02:56You know, they say, okay, what do you think should happen?
02:58So Kafka could have come in and said, okay, if I'm the interim coach, I can't have Shane
03:03Bowen as my defense coordinator.
03:04I got to make a change right now.
03:06And ownership would have said, okay, if that's what you feel, tell us, and with Joe Shane
03:10involved, what is your plan?
03:12Who's the next in line?
03:13And what do you think should happen?
03:15And then if it was a cohesive, coherent plan, they would have gone with it.
03:19I like that Kafka said, look, I didn't want to make any rash decisions.
03:22I didn't want to go into this and just start firing guys left and right.
03:25Look, he's a coordinator.
03:26He knows how it is.
03:27So, you know, I frankly, and I wrote this after the first game Kafka coached with the
03:33Packers.
03:34I didn't think that Shane Bowen was an issue at all.
03:37You know what I mean?
03:37The defense was okay.
03:39I didn't think, you know, the personnel was, was the groups, the personnel groups I thought
03:44were fine.
03:44And at the end there, you know, he called for a blitz that should have gotten to Jordan
03:48Love and it didn't with three one-on-one matchups.
03:51That's on the players.
03:52That's not on the coach.
03:53Um, and so, but this past week, look, you can't, um, go to Detroit and blow another
03:59lead and blow another double digit lead in the fourth quarter.
04:02So I think it had to be done.
04:03And, um, you know, can Charlie Bullen make a million schematic changes this week?
04:08He cannot.
04:08He gets an extra day to play with.
04:10That's good.
04:11Um, my impressions of Charlie Bullen.
04:14I mean, he's, he's, he's a, he's an effervescent guy.
04:17He's a very good quote.
04:19He, he had a lot of energy.
04:20He had more personality in the, in the few times I spoke to him than Shane Bowen did in
04:25two years.
04:25I've spoken to him.
04:26So does that make a difference?
04:28I don't know, but you know, Brandon, this was not a slam dunk.
04:32He's never been a defensive coordinator before.
04:34He's never called, you know, he's never made defensive calls before in the NFL.
04:38He's been in the NFL for 12 years, two years with the Giants, primarily always on, um,
04:43without sideline backers.
04:44And, you know, there were guys on the staff, you know, certainly, um, you know, um, manual,
04:49the, um, you know, secondaries coach has called, uh, defenses for the Falcons.
04:54Um, Andre, um, you know, the, uh, Andre Patterson, the, uh, defensive line coach has been a co-defensive
05:02coordinator before in the league.
05:04So, you know, they had quote unquote more experience.
05:08Um, should they have gotten it?
05:09Look, this is, this is, um, my Kafka's call.
05:12And he went with Charlie Bullen.
05:13I think he'll be a spark and some energy.
05:15And, um, Brian Burns had good things to say about him.
05:17He said he's really helped him.
05:19And, um, you know, Brian Burns has had his best year with him.
05:22So he, um, uh, Burns said, look, he would have been happy with whoever they picked because
05:26there's experience there, but he's very thrilled that for Charlie Bullen, because he's a guy
05:30he knows very closely from working with him the last, you know, one and a half seasons.
05:34And, um, we'll see, you know, if anything, it's different and, um, it will be some energy,
05:40some personality, I think.
05:41And, you know, at this point, that's a good thing.
05:43When I look at it from a football standpoint, Paul, I think Kafka was kind of, was, was
05:48very overly generous to keeping Shane Bowen for even that one game.
05:53You know, I've seen, I've been on staffs or not been on staff.
05:57So I've seen staffs or, um, that where the offensive coordinator and the defensive coordinator
06:02do not get along.
06:04So if this were to happen on that staff and that, this is my, my, some of my father's
06:09former staffs where that offensive coordinator and that defensive coordinator were going
06:13at it with all the MFs and curse words in the world on a sideline in front of ADs, all
06:20of it.
06:20So if something would have happened to my father and he would have get gotten fired and
06:24one of those coordinators would have been bumped up, they will, the other one would have
06:29been fired in a heartbeat.
06:30And you see that on a lot of coaching staffs because the offensive coordinator and defensive
06:35coordinator, they game plan against each other more than anybody else in the, in those leagues.
06:41You're playing against these guys in the spring.
06:44You're, you're game planning against these guys in the summer until the regular season
06:49comes.
06:49And now it's time to attack a different defense or a different offense.
06:52So who else outside of Mike Kafka is going to know where the weaknesses are in a Shane
06:59Bowen defense, where the, the skeletons are buried in a, in a Shane Bowen defense.
07:04And Mike Kafka kind of said something after that green Bay game, after they put up over
07:09330 plus total yards, he said he wants the defense to attack and be aggressive.
07:17So that is him indirectly or subliminally telling you what's wrong with the defense or what he
07:24thinks or how he thinks the defense can be fixed.
07:27Now, when it comes to Shane Bowen and passing up, uh, Mark Juan Manuel and, uh, Andre, uh,
07:32uh, Patterson, I, I, I guess it's, it's because Mark Juan Manuel has such a, a hold on the
07:40secondary and he is, he's needed in that room.
07:43I'm guessing he looked at it to where it's like, okay, you go ahead, you continue to control
07:48and you run that secondary room.
07:50We'll bump Charlie Bowen up.
07:52And then now Andre Patterson gets a little bit more responsibility when it comes to the
07:56D line and the edge rushers, that linebacks, that sort of situation.
08:00But, uh, it's just a terrible situation, but it's a bad situation for anyone to be in.
08:05But player wise, I want, I know Brian Burns is saying all the right things.
08:09He's done all the right things all year player wise.
08:12I wonder if we see an extra effort in some of these guys, I'm going to keep my eye out
08:17on the tape banks.
08:18I'm going to keep an eye out on some of the guys that we've kind of looked at the film
08:22and call it out their effort.
08:24I know it shouldn't have to happen.
08:26A guy has to get fired, but now I really want to see who steps up and who, if it is a,
08:32if it was a problem of the X's and O's that really ruined it for the Jimmy's and Joe's.
08:38So now there's not too many guys that can hide on this defense now because the coach
08:43has been fired.
08:44The D coordinator has been fired.
08:46Now here's a guy that, yeah, he had to listen to you probably come into his office and like,
08:50coach, we need to be doing this.
08:51We need to be doing that.
08:53Oh, I listened.
08:54Now I got my opportunity to put you in that position.
08:56You better make the play or else got to go.
09:01You're right.
09:01You're right.
09:01As far as like, when you take one guy, what are you, what are you missing?
09:07Right.
09:07So yeah, if you take the secondaries coach away, you know, you know, who, who, who you,
09:13you, you can't, you, you want to, you know, Rob Peter to pay Paul sort of thing.
09:16Right.
09:16You don't want to, okay.
09:17Now we're leaving that open.
09:19Now we're leaving that, you know, with, with a weakness there.
09:22Yeah.
09:22I mean, look, it's a great opportunity for Charlie Bullen.
09:26You know what I mean?
09:27You know, nobody gets up every morning and says, I want to be an outside linebacker coach
09:31the rest of my life.
09:32You know what I mean?
09:33You know, everyone wants to be a coordinator and move up and move up.
09:35So this is an audition for him as well.
09:38Like I said, he can't do a million different things, but he can do some different things
09:42and he can make, you know, he can, you know what he can do.
09:44He can maybe acquiesce to the head coach a little more where, where if Kafka's in the
09:50headset and he says, we're bringing pressure here, right, Charlie, we're bringing pressure
09:53here now.
09:53Right.
09:54You know, you know, he doesn't make the actual, you know, the head coach is not going to make
09:57the actual call, but he can say, look, I don't want him sitting back there.
10:00I don't want to pat the ball.
10:01And then if you bring pressure and it doesn't work, at least the defensive coordinator can
10:06say, see, I tried, you know, I didn't sit back.
10:09I mean, I thought, look, this is layers and layers, right?
10:14I mean, you know, everyone loves Wink Martindale and he was a better, a more effective defensive
10:20coordinator than Shane Bowen was, but Wink Martindale couldn't stop the run either.
10:25I mean, the last year, I think they were, they were 27th against the run.
10:29He didn't stop the run.
10:30He was, had more pressure.
10:31He had more bombast.
10:33He had more bravado.
10:34You know, he was in charge of the defense, right?
10:36And the defense, you know, they liked that about him, but, you know, Shane Bowen after,
10:42after Jameer Gibbs, who is still running, he's still running.
10:45I think, you know, he's actually still sprinting and, and through untouched.
10:49Then at this point, they're last in the league in run defense.
10:53So, you know, his firing was warranted.
10:56It had to happen.
10:57And so there will be no miracles here.
11:01You know, we'll see, you know, we'll talk a little bit about the Patriots.
11:04They have some vulnerabilities now that maybe Charlie Bullen can come back from.
11:09Maybe Kayvon Thibodeau comes back.
11:11You know, sometimes also, you know, this, this was the anniversary of, this is the anniversary
11:17of in 20, what year was it?
11:21When, when Jim Fossil gave the, you know, this team is going to the playoffs.
11:26I'm putting my chips to the center.
11:28That kind of, that kind of thing.
11:29This was the, an anniversary of the exact year that that happened.
11:33And when Jim Fossil said that make, you know, you know, the Giants were like seven and four
11:37and he knew they were playing the Cardinals the next week and the Cardinals were awful.
11:42So what happened?
11:44He, he, he said, this team's going to the playoffs when, you know, cause they had lost
11:47a couple of games.
11:48They went in and they hammered the Cardinals.
11:50So this is the kind of situation where you, you, you look, the Patriots are a good team
11:55with a really good quarterback, but they have some vulnerabilities and maybe the Giants can
11:59get some guys healthy and they can have a good game Monday night.
12:02And everyone looks a little better because of the timing of this change.
12:06We'll see.
12:07We'll see.
12:07Look, the Patriots are a good team there in first place.
12:10So we'll see what happens, but it had to happen.
12:12You know, I mean, it's just like the Brian Dable thing had to happen because you can't keep
12:17on losing games like that.
12:18Not that it was all on Brian Dable.
12:20It was not, you know, there were deficiencies on this team.
12:23I mean, I wrote in, in, um, for our, uh, post ports plus website that was, you know, it
12:28was, um, um, you know, it was out Wednesday morning that it is remarkable that this offensive
12:34line is playing pretty well, not great, but pretty well.
12:38And, and the team is scoring and, um, you know, uh, they're ninth in rushing their, their,
12:43uh, top 10 in total yards.
12:45They're about 22nd in scoring.
12:48So the scoring's lagging behind, but this is not a two and 10 offense.
12:51And for years, it was a two and 10 offense.
12:54It's not a two and 10 offensive line.
12:55It's not a two and 10 offense, but it's a two and 10 defense.
12:59And that has compromised the whole season.
13:01So the defensive coordinator had to be, um, let go because of that.
13:05All right, Paul, we're going to go into the locker room now, see what the guys have
13:08to say about new defense coordinator, Charlie Bullen.
13:11And the possibility of Jackson darts return being official, uh, that's all on London in
13:18the locker room.
13:22All right, London in the locker room with wide receiver Wondell Robinson.
13:26Taye Banks called you Dale one time.
13:28And I just, I, I'm always thinking my head.
13:30I want to call you Dale.
13:31All my teammates call me Dale.
13:32About all of them just call me Dale.
13:34I really don't hear Wondell too much in the building.
13:36Um, yeah, more so from the fans.
13:38That's when I hear Wondell.
13:39So I'm the media guy.
13:40So I'll say, uh, Wondell, but then the former player in me also wants to say Dale, you know,
13:45how these London in the locker rooms go.
13:47We always get you guys to show us something in your locker.
13:49That's a must have what you got for it.
13:51All right.
13:52I got plenty of cleats.
13:54That's my must.
13:54Like, um, here, this, this is what I'm actually going to wear this week.
13:58Let's pull out these.
14:00Ah, so these are the Monday night football exclusives, right?
14:04So these are actually from Ohio state.
14:07Um, one of the cleat guys always buy, buy some cleats from.
14:10They had these, if you know anything about cleats, one of the better cleats ever made
14:15right here.
14:15And then, you know, just some chrome and white, red chrome customs right here.
14:22I'm always going to have some, some fresh cleats on the field.
14:25Um, no matter, no matter the week, there's always going to be something clean coming out.
14:29So, yeah, the things that are guaranteed in life, death taxes, and Dale having some fresh
14:36cleats on his feet, ladies and gentlemen, the best cleat selection in this locker room.
14:41And you can argue with anybody and they, they actually, anybody will tell you that they'll,
14:45they'll all tell you.
14:46So top two and you're not too.
14:47Yeah, for sure.
14:48I'm top two and not too.
14:49I always have the best cleats in the locker room.
14:52That's, that's kind of my thing.
14:53People got shoes and clothes, but you want to come talk about cleats.
14:56Brian Burns has Cologne.
14:59Wondell has the cleat game.
15:00I'm the cleats.
15:01I'm the cleat man.
15:02All right.
15:02Let's talk some football, man, because you've been absolutely balling ball.
15:05Mike Kafka was talking about how impressed he was for you to go from the slot and then
15:11to still make plays on the perimeter on the outside.
15:14You've made a position switch from running back to receiver.
15:17So what's been harder to pick up and be successful at going from running back to receiver or slot
15:23receiver to the outside?
15:24Definitely the running back to the receiver.
15:28Once I started playing receiver, it was really, you know, playing inside and outside, especially
15:31in college.
15:32And so I had the experience of playing outside.
15:35I just didn't really have too many opportunities of doing it in the NFL.
15:38So, you know, just making sure I'm studying my opponents and stuff like that and knowing
15:42exactly who I'm going against.
15:43And then it gets pretty easy from there.
15:44All right.
15:45Mike Kafka showed you some love.
15:46Now let's reciprocate that love.
15:48What have you seen from him these last two weeks as interim head coach, not only just
15:53on the offensive side of things, but just his demeanor and overall leadership?
15:58I mean, he's great.
15:59You know, he's real calm.
16:00But at the end of the day, he's going to stay on us and be hard on us.
16:03And, you know, he's just a great, great offensive play caller.
16:05I think he's a great offensive mind and just marrying up the run in the past game, making
16:09things look the exact same.
16:10So that way defenses can't get a beat on exactly what we want to do.
16:15So, you know, I love calf.
16:16I love calf to death.
16:17Does it surprise you that you guys have had around 900 yards of total offense the past
16:22two weeks?
16:24No, not one bit.
16:25I say I know the talent that we have in this room and that we have in our offensive room.
16:28And I know our O-line is going to always go out there and protect our running backs,
16:32our quarterbacks and do exactly what they need to do.
16:33And in the past game, it's just on us to go out there and get open.
16:37Dale, you've been here and involved in some offenses that it took about five weeks to get
16:44900 yards total offense.
16:47Now to have that offensive explosion this year, but still not be able to win games and still
16:52have personal success, like at the end of the day, when you sit in your locker after
16:57not being able to close out a game as a team, just take us through that feeling and that
17:02emotion, man.
17:03I mean, it's definitely tough because, you know, we have the talent to go out there and
17:07win these games.
17:08It's just like we got to figure out a way to finish them.
17:11I saw something that's like if we basically played for 58 minutes, we'd have a couple
17:15more wins.
17:16But at the end of the day, football is a 60-minute game and you got to go out there and finish.
17:19But when you say figuring it out with what, five games left in the season, like what's
17:24that process of you guys figuring it out?
17:26I think it starts at practice, you know, just having the mentality that you're going to
17:30finish each and every rep, finish each and every practice the way that you need to.
17:34Can't start out practice high and then die down and get slow at the end.
17:38So just continue to just go on a climb and just continue to be great.
17:42Personally, I believe you're at 774 yards receiving, having yourself a career year so
17:48far, just kind of talk about, and let me digress, let me go back a little bit.
17:54I see a guy I believe you worked with in the offseason.
17:57He tweets and puts a lot of your routes that you guys worked on in the offseason and now
18:01you see yourself running that same route stem, getting open and having that success.
18:06So just kind of take us back to the offseason, man.
18:08When you were putting in that work, did you know you were going to have a big year this
18:11year?
18:12Yeah, I definitely felt this was going to be my best year yet.
18:14And just, yeah, like you said, just the way that I had worked and just all the work
18:19that I tried to put in throughout the offseason, just really not even taking a day off, not
18:22really even having a vacation, you know, just making sure that I was just ultimately prepared
18:27for each and every moment that I had this season.
18:29All right, man.
18:30Well, congrats on all the success.
18:31Good luck on Monday night, baby.
18:32Prime time.
18:33Can't wait to see those cleats.
18:34You saw those here first.
18:36Remember that.
18:36Yeah.
18:37Appreciate you.
18:39All right, Paul.
18:40It's not official yet if he's going to return and not just yet.
18:44But looks like he is trending in the right direction.
18:47We got to tell you guys, we are filming this on a Wednesday, not Thursdays like we normally
18:51do.
18:52So I'm headed out to practice to see what's going to go down if Jackson Dart's going to
18:56get ramped up.
18:57So while right now we're still waiting on that official word from the Giants.
19:01But, Paul, it's almost like, I don't know, call me crazy, but I'm okay if Jameis Winston
19:07stays as QB1.
19:08But I am having a great time watching Jameis Winston.
19:14He's not eating W's, but he's trying to eat W's right now.
19:17But he's, I mean, either way, whether it's Jackson Dart or Jameis Winston, I am here to
19:23say that this offense is in good hands.
19:27You know, you are so transparent.
19:29You know, you know what?
19:30You know why you like Jameis Winston so much?
19:32Throws the ball down the field.
19:33Because he caught the pass that I don't know if you would have scored a touchdown
19:37on, huh?
19:39Come on.
19:40Look, look, that catch was great.
19:45The spin was great.
19:47The pirouette on the sideline was great.
19:49So I think you're looking at Jameis Winston and saying, look, I don't care.
19:52Let Jackson Dart play quarterback, but I want Jameis running some patterns, right?
19:56That's what you want him out there for.
19:57So you're saying Jameis has better yak ability than me?
20:01Because that was yak right there, Paul.
20:03First and foremost, the way he came back to the football, that's what I try and teach
20:08these young kids.
20:09Two, the spin move was great.
20:12The stiff arm was great.
20:13But the end, to get your knees up so he couldn't swipe at the legs.
20:19This is the reason why a guy won the Heisman Trophy, why he was drafted to the majors in baseball.
20:24Jameis, he's an entertaining winner.
20:29Like, this guy is a winner.
20:30And it's, again, that's why I'm okay.
20:33I know we talk about Jackson Dart's development, and we got to get him, you know, got to get
20:37him right for the next season.
20:40Two and ten, Paul.
20:41I don't care about no development.
20:43I sure want to watch Jameis.
20:45Entertaining, yes.
20:46Entertaining winner.
20:47I mean, they lost the last two games with Jameis Winston.
20:50Yeah, I know, I know.
20:50And his career record in the NFL is a lot more losses than wins.
20:55Now, I'm not knocking Jameis Winston, but let's not make him to be John Elway here.
20:59You know what I mean?
20:59I mean, he's, you know what?
21:02After watching those two games, you know what?
21:04And he's signed for next year for like $4 million, right?
21:07Would I look at it and say he's the best backup quarterback in the league?
21:11Okay.
21:11That's what I will say.
21:13And if he needs to start, he can go there and play winning brand of football.
21:18It was not his fault that he lost the last two games.
21:20There's no question about it.
21:22So I'm not going to say, you know, Jameis Winston could have the exact same games the
21:26last two games.
21:27And if the defense held up there, it's end of the bargain.
21:30The Giants would have won one or two of those games.
21:32So yes, Jameis Winston can still play.
21:35You know, he's not a goofball.
21:37He's not some guy who's just throwing the ball all over the place.
21:39You know, he could have had three or four interceptions against the Packers.
21:42You know, he played a very solid game, more than solid.
21:46He played at times spectacularly in Detroit and deserved better.
21:50There's no question about it.
21:52But look, they have five games left and we don't need to learn more about Jameis Winston.
21:57We don't.
21:58We need to learn more about Jackson Dart.
22:00You know, I asked Mike Kafka that, you know, if he's ready, is he your starting quarterback?
22:06Because now, like we said, you know, Jameis played well.
22:09You know, maybe he'll say, well, right.
22:10But look, they didn't win the games.
22:12It would have been really fascinating if they won two games with Jameis Winston.
22:16And now Jackson Dart's ready to come out of concussion protocol.
22:19Does he make the change or doesn't he make the change?
22:21I think the season is very much about Jackson Dart.
22:24So if he's ready, I think he will.
22:25I know he will start if he's ready.
22:29They were cautious with him last week, but it's really not even so much.
22:32You know, he did not.
22:33It's not like they he cleared concussion protocol and the Giants said, that's fine, but we're
22:39sitting him.
22:40We're not going to play him.
22:41He did not clear the protocol.
22:43So this week he has to clear the protocol.
22:46You know, you can't just snap like you can't just snap your fingers and say, OK, he's cleared
22:51a protocol.
22:52He has to not show symptoms.
22:54Then he has to you know, he has to have a full practice where it's it's quote unquote a contact
22:59practice.
23:00There's really no contact for a quarterback, but they have to simulate some contact to
23:04see if he can withstand that.
23:07Then how does he feel afterwards?
23:08Then an independent neurologist has to say, I clear him.
23:12You know, I clear him.
23:13It's like a designation like with a with a sword.
23:15You know, I dub thee cleared of the concussion protocol.
23:18You are now a knight of the Giants roundtable.
23:21Right.
23:21You know, you have to do that.
23:23So I would certainly expect that this week.
23:26And then I would expect him to start.
23:28And then it's a fascinating kind of next chapter for Jackson Dart.
23:33Right.
23:33You know, it was sitting on the bench.
23:35Then it was starting.
23:36Now it's getting hurt, missing two games, learning and seeing what, you know, and in coming off
23:41a concussion and how is he going to handle it?
23:44Is he going to be, you know, the swashbuckler that we saw before?
23:48Is he going to be more cautious?
23:50You know, is he going to be in more self-preservation mode?
23:53So this is the next chapter that we have to learn about.
23:56And, you know, I'm anxious to see that Monday night.
23:59Call me crazy, but I feel like Jameis Winston put a little pressure on Jackson Dart's development
24:04and production.
24:06I feel like it's he's going to make him, I guess, try harder and not let the game come
24:11to him naturally.
24:11Because if we're talking about two games with around 900 yards of total offense, we've been
24:18excited about Jackson Dart and what he's been able to do with his feet.
24:22But we haven't seen him sling it like that and get multiple wide receivers and tight ends
24:27and backs involved.
24:28So I'm hoping and I love the handshake.
24:32I love the Jameis is the perfect guy for Jackson Dart and his development without a doubt.
24:36Like you said, the best backup quarterback in the league, the best mentor in the league.
24:41And it's almost like it's making me rethink the decision of bringing in Russell Wilson,
24:47because I feel like now that the whole Russell Wilson experiment kind of put them in a bad
24:51position at the beginning of the year where you could have just went with the excitement
24:55of Jameis.
24:56But when we talk about Jackson Dart's development, his possible return, and you're going to speak
25:02more on this, we all saw it on Hard Knocks, Brian Dable wanted Drake May last year, and
25:09he's almost in a similar, Jackson Dart's almost in a similar situation of what Drake May went
25:16through last season.
25:17And now we really get to see what Drake May is and what he's going to become.
25:23So, I mean, do you feel like the Giants have their Drake May in Jackson Dart?
25:33Yeah, that's an interesting way to put it, you know, because it's, look, look, the Giants
25:36wanted Jayden Daniels, you know, they, you know, they couldn't get him.
25:42They couldn't get up to one to get him.
25:44They just, they couldn't.
25:46And they wanted Drake May.
25:48You know, we saw in Hard Knocks where Joe Shane walked over at Combine in Indianapolis
25:53at Lucas Oil Stadium, walked around the whole thing to go into the Patriots suite to talk
25:58to Elliott Wolfe and just say, what are you thinking?
26:01What are you thinking of three?
26:02What are you thinking?
26:02And, you know, he was like, okay, just, you know, keep us in mind, keep us in mind.
26:05And then he came back and said, yeah, I don't think they're interested in trading that
26:09pick.
26:10You know, they're going to dig it.
26:10They want Drake May.
26:11And so, but, you know, it's interesting because Drake May last year, you know, had
26:18a pretty typical, he didn't start the season just like Jackson Dart didn't start his rookie
26:22season.
26:22Right.
26:23And they had a first year head coach, Gerard Mayo in New England.
26:26And then, you know, at a certain point they said, okay, we're going to play Drake May.
26:30Right.
26:30And Drake May had some growing pains.
26:32There's no question.
26:33He, he, the team wasn't very good.
26:34He had some real highlights, but he had some low lights.
26:38And think of it.
26:39If you're Gerard Mayo, you broke in that car, right?
26:42You know, you know, I don't know, Brandon, you remember, or you, I don't know if you're
26:45old enough to remember, you know, you buy jeans now that are already broken in, right?
26:49You know, you put on a, you buy a nice new pair of jeans.
26:52They already feel comfortable.
26:53I remember buying a brand new pair of Levi's.
26:56They were hard as a rock.
26:57You know, you had to wash them.
26:58You know, it wasn't, it wasn't this pre-worn kind of cotton.
27:02You know what I mean?
27:02Yeah.
27:02There's no street.
27:03It was just, it was Levi's, you know, it was like, so you wore them the first day and you're
27:08like walking around like Frankenstein.
27:09Oh man.
27:10Then you wear, wash them.
27:11Then you wash them.
27:12Then you wash them.
27:13Finally.
27:14Now these are broken in, you know?
27:16So Gerard Mayo broke in Drake May for who?
27:19For Mike Rabel, who comes in as, as you know, to save the day in year two.
27:24He's a terrific coach.
27:25He gets the broken in product.
27:27And Drake may, you know, at certain points this year was, they were talking about him
27:30as an MVP candidate.
27:31He will get some votes for MVP.
27:34So, you know, Jackson Dodd is probably playing better as a rookie than Drake May played as
27:40a rookie.
27:41So that is the exciting part of all this, that you say the Patriots were not a good team breaking
27:46in a rookie quarterback last year.
27:48This year, they have a second year quarterback who completely looks the part and they're a
27:53really good team with a new head coach.
27:56The Giants will have a new head coach next year.
27:58Either it's Mike Kafka, you know, the odds are no, that they'll have a new head coach.
28:01With a broken in quarterback, just like Drake May was for Mike Rabel.
28:06So they will be fascinating to see what happens.
28:09You know, you know, the new head coach comes in and he doesn't have to go through these growing
28:13pains with, with, uh, Jackson Dart.
28:14And really the growing pains have not been too painful.
28:17He's been terrific, but he will be, you know, you assume he'll be a better quarterback week
28:21one next year than he is right now.
28:23And so, um, yeah, it just goes to show what, what a new quarterback.
28:28And, you know, at one point you may just going back, you keep on saying,
28:31call me crazy second time you said that.
28:33I mean, if you want me to, I will, but I don't think you're making crazy points.
28:37You're making good points is that what Jameis Winston showed us these last two weeks.
28:40It's like, it's not only Jackson Dart, right?
28:43It's like the offense got much better because of Jackson Dart.
28:47The offense got much better because you had a good quarterback play, right?
28:50You know, they could run the ball better.
28:52You know, Wandale Robinson looks like a guy who can get downfield.
28:55Um, you know, Isaiah Hodgins, the last two weeks is making plays.
28:59So you have a capable quarterback and an offensive line that can give him time.
29:03It's not just Jackson Dart as Superman.
29:05Jameis Winston also did some really good things with this offense.
29:09You know, 27 points in Detroit should be enough to win.
29:12And they didn't win.
29:13So, um, yeah, that's the thing that any new coach is, Hey, there are pieces here with a good
29:18quarterback that it's not terrible.
29:20Malik neighbors is coming back.
29:22Cam Scadaboo's coming back.
29:23You know, any head coach can look at this and say, you know what?
29:27That's a good job.
29:28We have Jackson Dart.
29:29We have neighbors.
29:30We have Scadaboo, the offensive line.
29:32Maybe we'll tweak it a little bit.
29:33Not terrible.
29:34You know, in other years, it was terrible.
29:36I think pro football focus before last week had him ranked 14th in the league.
29:40What did we always say?
29:42Giants don't need the best offensive line in the league.
29:44Just give them an average offensive line and they can be better.
29:47It's a, it's probably an average ish offensive line right now.
29:52And it's a much better offense.
29:55It's all kind of looking bad for Brian Dable.
29:57If you, if you kind of like play a little bit Monday morning quarterback and look back
30:01at it, because like exactly everything you said about how the offense struggled in years
30:06before Saquon goes, has success somewhere else.
30:10Daniel Jones goes and he's having success in Indy.
30:13Mike Kafka now steps up and now we have what in two games with him, just being sold, having
30:19sole control over the offense around 900 yards of total offense.
30:24So everything is kind of trending in the right direction for Mike Kafka to be retained in
30:31some sort of capacity.
30:33Rather, they got to throw extra money at him to make him into the offensive coordinator.
30:38Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.
30:39You're getting way ahead of that.
30:40You wouldn't bring in a defensive guy.
30:42I'm bringing in a defensive guy, Paul, to clean that defense up.
30:46And then Mike Kafka, you, this is your offense.
30:50You know, you know what I, I, I, you look, you're the son of a coach.
30:53You know how coaches think.
30:54I don't know any guys coming in and saying, okay, I'm keeping Mike Kafka.
30:59I mean, it could happen.
31:00It's not crazy, but I'm keeping Mike Kafka who has, who has some tremendous loyalty.
31:04Now is Mike Kafka going to be like the head coach of the offense?
31:08You know what I mean?
31:08And, and, and, and any guy they bring in, and I think it's wrong to say, I'm bringing
31:12in a defensive guy.
31:13You got to bring in the best leader and the smartest guy, whether that's an offensive guy
31:18or a defensive guy, probably not going to be a special teams guy, but you got to bring
31:22in the best guy who's a leader.
31:24And then his, the next question is, who are you bringing in?
31:27So let's say you bring in a defensive guy, right?
31:30A guy who was a defensive coordinator and that's where he made his bones, right?
31:34The first question you would ask him is, okay, what is your staff?
31:37I know for a fact, the Giants are going to be very concerned with what is this guy who
31:41they're bringing in?
31:42What is his staff going to look like?
31:44Okay.
31:45It's imperative.
31:46Look what happened with, you said, you know, this is making Brian Dable look bad.
31:49I think the worst thing Brian Dable did is not anything coaching wise.
31:53It was probably hiring Shane Bowen because that led to the problem.
31:57I have nothing against Shane Bowen, but, and, and the fact that, you know, Dable and Wink
32:03Martindale could not work it out together.
32:05A lot of it was Wink.
32:06Some of it was certainly Brian Dable.
32:08He's hard on coaches.
32:09You know, Wink Martindale didn't want to be yelled at.
32:12Okay.
32:12You know, he didn't want to be yelled at and that's all there is to it.
32:15You know, you can yell at the defensive quality control coach and you can yell at the DB's
32:19coach Wink Martindale didn't want to be yelled at and looked at, you know, like that.
32:23And so there was, there was a personality conflict there.
32:26Should that have been, you know, smoothed over?
32:28Maybe if Wink Martindale stayed with the defensive been better, probably they might've still not
32:33been able to stop the run.
32:34He was not perfect.
32:35So, you know, this is, there's a trickle down effect, but I think to say, I just don't
32:41see a guy coming in and saying, oh yeah, Kafka, you know, Kafka's now got some loyalty
32:46in the building and in the room, right?
32:49Do you want to be a, you got to be a pretty confident new guy to come into the building
32:53and say, yeah, I know half the team already likes this guy a lot and wants to play for
32:58him, but I'm going to be the head coach now.
33:01It's just, you know, these guys, these guys have egos and these guys want to bring in
33:04their own guys.
33:05What?
33:06I don't think.
33:08Two and 10.
33:08You can't have an ego at two and 10, Paul.
33:11Like everyone in that locker room, the forget being like half of these guys, like Mike
33:16Kafka.
33:16I'm talking about the new guy coming in.
33:18Oh, the new guy coming in is going to have an ego.
33:22I can do this job.
33:24That's why you're hiring me.
33:25You know what I mean?
33:26And, and this is who I want to run my offense.
33:29What about Mike Kafka?
33:31I mean, Mike Kafka doesn't have a million, you know, he, his tentacles go from Andy
33:36Reed, you know, he, you know, which is a great, a great tentacle, you know, it's,
33:39it's the best, but you know, he doesn't have a million, you know, he, he's, he's
33:43worked for the chiefs and he's worked for the giants.
33:45He certainly knows plenty of people in the league.
33:47So I think, you know, any new guy coming in is going to want to bring in his guy,
33:51you know, his guy, you know, and, and, and, and so look, Mike Kafka has a chance
33:58to, to, to be retained as the head coach, but not if he goes on seven and not if he
34:03goes one and six, that's an incredibly hard sell.
34:05You know, even if he scores points on offense, I mean, at some point you have to
34:09have to win and turn things around.
34:11Now this week is tough after this week, right?
34:14After this week, there's a buy.
34:16Okay.
34:16And then the schedule, you have the commanders, not a playoff team.
34:21You have the Vikings, not a playoff team.
34:23You have the Raiders, probably the worst team in the league.
34:26And you have the Cowboys, which, you know, certainly have been rejuvenated.
34:31Are the Cowboys playing for their playoff lives in that last game, or are they playing
34:35for nothing?
34:35We'll see.
34:36So there are games there.
34:38Does it, is it going to make a big difference in the giant season?
34:41No.
34:42But if, if, if, if the giants go into new England and play a really good game and lose, is anyone
34:46going to say the giants lost to an inferior team?
34:49No, no.
34:50The Patriots could be the number one seed in the AFC.
34:52But if the giants don't, aren't, aren't able to beat the commanders and the, and, and the,
34:58Vikings, the Vikings who have no quarterback and the Raiders, then you're going to say,
35:03what are we doing here with my Kafka?
35:05You know what I mean?
35:05I mean, you know, you don't need to be Vince Lombardi to beat those teams.
35:08So, you know, we have more football to play for those reasons, not for playoff reasons.
35:14You know, I don't buy, you know, you know, some fans are thinking lose, lose, fine.
35:18What they did last week.
35:19I have a friend who told me I had no problem with the game in Detroit.
35:22They played hard.
35:23They had fun.
35:24You know, some of their good players played well and they lost and it was competitive.
35:28And the draft pick didn't, you know, you don't need a quarterback.
35:31Don't worry about the draft pick, whether it's two, three, four, five, don't worry about
35:35the draft pick.
35:36And I say this, I understand it.
35:39The fans say, well, you know, I understand the players.
35:42I deal with players, right?
35:44I talk to players and Andrew Thomas hasn't smiled in months.
35:49You know what I mean?
35:51I mean, don't tell me that Andrew Thomas is fine with losing and then getting the second
35:56pick in the draft.
35:58Brian Burns is playing his heart out.
36:00These guys need to win some games for their own self image and own self worth.
36:05And the younger players here need to win some games to show, you know, Drew Phillips.
36:10You don't think Drew Phillips needs to win some games so he can go into next year thinking,
36:14you know, we have a good, credible defense here.
36:17You know, Darius Alexander had two sacks last week.
36:20You think if he gets a couple of sacks in a game, they win.
36:23It's not going to help him going into next year.
36:25I don't buy this losing stuff.
36:26I really don't.
36:27Plus it helps when you go out to the club that night.
36:29Cause whether you could, if you only got two wins on the season, you got 10 losses, you
36:34go into the club 10 times.
36:37It's like, you're drinking your sorrows away.
36:39Not the two times you get to go to the club and you're dancing because you feel good that
36:43you actually won on the week.
36:46And that was young, 24, 23 year old me, you know, speaking, but I never went through that
36:51in NFL one of every team I was with in the NFL.
36:53So I don't know what that feels like to win, to lose 10 games in the season that has to
36:59be getting at these guys.
37:00And you've mentioned how Darius Alexander wants to finish strong.
37:04You mentioned the rest of the schedule and how the Giants have the opportunity to finish
37:09strong.
37:09That goes right into your final thought, Paul.
37:12Can the Giants 2026 be the Patriots in 2025?
37:18I mean, as I mentioned, there are some, there are some breadcrumbs that you can follow there,
37:25you know, a first year quarterback becoming a second year quarterback, a new head coach,
37:29no matter, you know, who it is, we don't know who it's going to be, but somebody, right.
37:33You know, I mean, I don't know if there's a Mike Vrabel out there, you know, if there
37:35was a Mike Vrabel out there, that would be great.
37:37You know, Mike Vrabel was a handmade, you know, ready-made Patriot through and through who
37:42was a winning, winning head coach in, in, in Tennessee and, you know, with the Titans
37:47and then brought his whole, his whole shtick, you know, in, in a good way.
37:51I mean, his whole tough guy, you know, proven head coach to, to a team that was, and also
37:56the Patriots spent an unbelievable amount of money in free agency and fortified that defense
38:01tremendously.
38:02Now the Giants don't have that kind of money in, in, in a free agency to spend, but they
38:06will have a quarterback on a rookie deal.
38:08And that is golden.
38:09That is golden.
38:10You have two or three years with this guy making very little money.
38:13So you can spend it other places.
38:16I don't know if they can be at this point, the number one seed in the NFC, NFC next year,
38:21like the, the, I don't think that at all, but I think the Giants are not a total rebuild
38:27that is going to take years and years here.
38:30They have their quarterback.
38:30They have a number one wide receiver coming back.
38:33They have some pieces on defense and they certainly need more and they need a better
38:37coordinator.
38:38But I think the Giants can go from, you know, two and 10 this year to six and six next year.
38:45I, I don't, I don't think that's crazy.
38:47I really don't after 12 games, a lot has to happen.
38:50We'll see.
38:50I'm not saying 10 and two, but the Giants can be a, a, a, a respectable contender ish team
38:57next year with the right pieces.
38:59As long as Jackson darts keep Jackson dart keeps ascending.
39:02I think that I really do.
39:03They say the NY in New York Giants stands for next year.
39:08Cause we've, that's, that's just all we've been talking about at this point of the season
39:12year in, year out, but hopefully 2026 is the Giants here.
39:17Hopefully they can get a primetime win Monday night football against Drake May and the New
39:21England Patriots.
39:22Paul, thanks for coming on today.
39:25Thank you guys for, for, for hanging out with us.
39:27Happy Thanksgiving.
39:28Get your stuff in, get all that good, good stuff.
39:30And then I guess we, uh, what are we fast?
39:33Paul, are you a faster?
39:34Cause I'm going to go on a three, three day, 72 hour water fast after Thanksgiving.
39:40You win?
39:41Why?
39:42To lose it all, to, to lose everything that I gain, you know?
39:45What are you doing?
39:46What?
39:46What are you doing?
39:47The three days, 72 hours, three days, all water.
39:51Really?
39:52No, you're not going to, you're not going to eat for three days and just drink water.
39:55Just drink water.
39:57It's shredding season, Paul.
39:58How much are you planning on eating on Thanksgiving?
40:00A lot, a lot.
40:03We, we, we get down at the London household.
40:05And since my dad's team didn't make it to the playoffs, he's going to be making barbecue
40:09chicken.
40:09So, you know, no turkey.
40:12My grandma does that.
40:14She does a turkey.
40:15She does a turkey, but it sounds terrific.
40:17And I will overeat on Thanksgiving.
40:19I, it's my favorite, you know, meal of the year.
40:22I love it.
40:23I love it all.
40:24Um, and I will overeat and then I will chill out for a couple of days and I will drink
40:29water for 72 hours, but I will not only drink water.
40:32I guarantee you that.
40:33All right.
40:34Well, I'm going to see if I can hold up to that.
40:36My sister's the health nut of the family.
40:37So she's the one that gets us to that.
40:39So thank you guys for watching this week 13 blue rush for Paul Schwartz.
40:44I'm Brendan London.
40:45Thanks for watching.
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