- 16 hours ago
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00:00Stay on him as much as you can, on his face, when, you know, when we're talking.
00:19Are you sure you have to process the next person on it?
00:22You want to go? Yeah.
00:30Where? What side? Can I sit over here, then?
00:35Right, right. You can hear me okay, Chris, right?
00:45Okay.
01:00How's it been in here for you?
01:04Well, it's been getting harder.
01:06But at the end of the day, it's like, how can you stop? And why am I here?
01:13Are you innocent?
01:14Yes, I am.
01:16Have you ever said that you worked all of this?
01:19No, I haven't.
01:20To anybody?
01:21No. I never will.
01:24If you're innocent, I'll keep going.
01:31It might take 10 years.
01:34It might take 15 years.
01:36And I just want to always keep your expectations realistic.
01:42I honestly believe that one day the truth will come out.
01:54You, that's my dream come out inches high as seen.
01:55Then I am not a saint.
02:09I don't know anyone about it.
02:10This is your plan.
02:15Oh...
02:18We are just wonderful.
02:19We are just ready to text at OKTosphorus.
02:20When I met JJ, I remember thinking to myself, sure, yeah, right, he's innocent.
02:44But I knew from David Lemus' Palladium case how twisted the system can be.
02:51How you doing, Dan?
02:52So in the back of my mind, I thought, maybe it's possible.
02:57Okay.
02:58You ready?
02:59Yeah.
03:00Are you okay?
03:01Yeah.
03:02All right.
03:03For the most part, this area right here that I have covered, there's a bunch of files, mainly legal work.
03:10This is where I have all my legal work at.
03:13This is my work desk.
03:14Between here and my bed is where everything goes down in my cell.
03:17The 12th jury said you're here for a reason.
03:20That's right.
03:21That you should be locked up because you committed murder.
03:24That's what they gathered, but they didn't know the whole story.
03:28Not everybody's innocent in prison, but they are people like me.
03:32I grew up in New York.
03:44My father was a cop.
03:45He was an Amtrak police officer.
03:47My mother was a hard worker, union organizer.
03:54Baseball was my favorite sport.
03:57I used to play basketball with kids in my neighborhood.
04:00But eventually, I just started going more and more down the wrong path.
04:06There has been a past that I am not proud of.
04:19I started selling drugs.
04:25I was able to get a car.
04:27I was able to get an apartment.
04:28I was able to put food in my son's stomach.
04:32You're traveling through life and you're looking for a purpose.
04:41I was 18 when I found out Vanessa was pregnant.
04:45I said, okay, this is my purpose.
04:53He was a bundle of joy.
04:54He became my pride.
04:56I love my son.
04:58Come on, make me.
05:00There you go.
05:02I love both of my sons.
05:06When my second son was born, I was getting used to being a father.
05:14It's all about family right now.
05:17I got to get things right.
05:20No more selling drugs.
05:22You need to figure it out.
05:23It's got to be something that's not going to take you away from home.
05:27In the midst of doing all that, I get this phone call.
05:32And the phone call is like, Jay, police were at the house.
05:35You need to call them.
05:37You need to call them out.
05:38You need to call them out.
05:39Your cell phone call is at the house.
05:40You need to call them out in town.
05:41You need to call them out.
05:42I'm going to call them to find the police, man, take me an emergency room.
05:43There was a robbery at an illegal gambling parlor in Harlem.
06:03It was owned by a former police officer by the name of Albert Ward.
06:10Two men came in to rob the place.
06:13One of them took out a gun and shot Albert Ward in the head, killing him.
06:20A couple of days after the murder, one of the eyewitnesses selected J.J.'s photograph, his mugshot, as the shooter.
06:29And the search for J.J. Velasquez began.
06:32We had learned that there was a police that had gotten shot and that I was a suspect.
06:36I'm like, wait a minute, this is getting serious.
06:38Everything was going through my mind.
06:43I just kept looking at my kids.
06:44I just wanted to get it over with as soon as possible.
06:48So my mother dropped me off in front of the precinct.
06:52My attorneys were waiting for me.
06:55I said, well, what do they want from me?
06:57And he says, they want you to stand in the lineup.
07:00They don't have a warrant for your arrest.
07:02You should go home.
07:03I'm thinking that I'm going to go on a lineup.
07:06I'm not going to get picked and I can go home.
07:09I couldn't wrap my mind around being selected.
07:12There's like no possible way.
07:15And I told him I'm gone.
07:19It was the last choice I made as a free man.
07:26Several eyewitnesses identified J.J. in a live lineup as the shooter.
07:32And he was arrested for murder.
07:33He stood trial.
07:38He was convicted and sentenced to 25 years to life.
07:57When someone's incarcerated, the family is also serving time.
08:04Doing the bid with them, as my son says.
08:07I cry because it's an injustice.
08:17I cry because my grandchildren have had to live through this.
08:27But I didn't cry that my son was a murderer because I know that he's not.
08:35Because you can't be in two places at once.
08:3974 minutes on the day that they say that he committed this crime.
08:47He was on the telephone with me.
08:49And for that, I'm very grateful because I was at peace.
08:56Always have been and always will be.
08:58I remember that conversation because it was January 27th, 1998, the day before my father's birthday.
09:07While the shooter was at the scene of the crime in Manhattan, I was in the Bronx on the phone with my mother.
09:14And we had phone records showing that phone call.
09:18My father had died the previous year.
09:23It was going to be the first time we were going to celebrate my father's life without him.
09:30I needed my mother to be present.
09:34But Vanessa and my girlfriend and my mother were not speaking at the time.
09:38So I just kept pushing until she finally agreed to come.
09:43And that's why I was on the phone for 74 minutes with my mother.
09:48At trial, J.J., his girlfriend Vanessa, and his mother Maria all testified that J.J. was at home on the phone with his mother.
09:58But the jury heard all of this and still convicted him.
10:02The prosecutor basically argued they were all lying, that it was probably Vanessa that was on the phone with Maria.
10:10And that Maria would do anything to protect her only child.
10:15And it doesn't really make sense, does it, that a 22-year-old young man would be on the phone with his mother for 74 minutes.
10:26The prosecutors also argued five eyewitnesses had picked him out.
10:31And that his co-defendant pleaded guilty and said he did the crime with J.J.
10:38That's a pretty strong case to overcome.
10:41But there were these nagging things.
10:44Among them, J.J.'s alleged accomplice, Derry Daniels.
10:49He was described as a dark-skinned black male who was restraining people with duct tape.
10:55He was picked out the same way J.J. was, a witness looking at mug shots.
11:02He had a long rap sheet.
11:04He was facing potentially life in prison.
11:07And he was offered 12 years if he took a plea.
11:10When you're in a position like his, that's a pretty good deal.
11:14Derry Daniels pleaded guilty.
11:17He did 10 years in prison.
11:18And he was out by 2008.
11:22But when I read the trial transcript, I didn't see testimony from Derry Daniels.
11:27And that was surprising to me.
11:30You have a guy pleading guilty, saying he did the crime with him.
11:33Why wouldn't you have him testify?
11:34J.J. says he'd never met him before.
11:39My investigation would end right there if I could prove that Derry and J.J. knew each other.
11:48Derry Daniels did not want to talk.
11:52They went into his door and slammed it in my face.
11:57I did everything I could.
11:59I spent months trying to connect them.
12:02So did the DA's office and the police.
12:05No one ever could connect those two guys.
12:07So how could two guys who don't know each other commit a murder together?
12:11That was a red flag for me.
12:12This is the last picture that I have of him as a free man.
12:36It was very difficult to have to explain to a very young child.
12:46I don't know when daddy's going to come home.
12:50It was important to me that the children knew who their father was and that he loved them.
12:58For the most part during my incarceration, I lived my life through pictures.
13:24A lot of events that I should have been at as a father.
13:35I missed communion.
13:39I missed being able to just take them to the park.
13:56Having a picnic, father and son.
13:59Going to the beach.
14:00Teaching them how to play sports.
14:12Teaching them how to be a man.
14:19Every family has got to be.
14:23You can hear me?
14:30Come over here.
14:31Jacob, say something.
14:36I love my father very much.
14:40Your friends know?
14:42Some of them do.
14:44What do they ask?
14:46Like, sometimes out of nowhere, and they're like, oh, so where's your dad?
14:50Like, he's in jail.
14:51And they're like, oh, sorry, or whatever.
14:53That's what happens.
14:55You always tell them that he's innocent?
14:59Yeah, like, if they act like, what is he in for?
15:01Like, oh, he said he was innocent.
15:03They say he killed people, though.
15:04Yeah.
15:06Hello?
15:08Tell me about the hardship.
15:09Tell me about the result of this.
15:12On and off job, going through the shelter system, losing my apartment.
15:18It's been a lot.
15:19And that's a direct result of?
15:21Yes.
15:25He turns himself in thinking he wasn't going to be charged.
15:30And the end result, he did get charged for something that he didn't do.
15:34You're the only person that really knows.
15:37Me and his mother.
15:38He used to speak to his mother a lot, hours on the phone.
15:41And, you know, me and his mother were going through our hard times at the moment.
15:46So we wasn't really talking.
15:48And it's like, my word to them wasn't good enough.
15:53It's not fair.
16:05It's not fair to their mother.
16:07You know, I left her behind.
16:09Two children.
16:11Not much money.
16:13She had to turn to another man for support.
16:16Can I blame her?
16:17Nah, I can't blame her.
16:23She has to do what she has to do.
16:25I got to do time.
16:26It became clear to me that the evidence that convicted J.J. was only eyewitness evidence.
16:40There was no DNA.
16:44There was no fingerprints.
16:45There was no blood.
16:46There was nothing putting him at the scene.
16:49This case against John Adrian Velasquez begins with a key eyewitness named Augustus Brown.
16:57Brown had been selling heroin at Al Ward's illegal numbers parlor.
17:02At the precinct, police found 10 bags of heroin in Brown's underwear.
17:07They questioned him for hours.
17:08He ends up looking at more than 1,800 mugshots before he picks out a picture of J.J.
17:17Augustus Brown is the reason J.J. became a suspect.
17:23In my conversations with J.J., I asked him, do you know Augustus Brown?
17:28He says, I don't know Augustus Brown.
17:31But I spoke to him one time.
17:33During my trial, they sent me back to a bullpen.
17:39And there's another bullpen that's adjacent to it.
17:42I felt like somebody was staring at me.
17:46So I asked him, do I know you?
17:48And he was like, they're making me do it.
17:51And he said it just like that.
17:52He was like, they're making me do it.
17:54I said, they're making you do what?
17:55And that's when the officer said, yo, they have a separation.
17:57Get them out of here.
17:58And he's like, yo, I'm here because they're making me do it.
18:02And I don't want to do it.
18:05I had no idea what that was.
18:07And they take him out.
18:10On Monday, they call him on a stand.
18:15And he testified against me.
18:17He said that I was the one who did the crime.
18:19By the time I went to go speak to Augustus Brown with a couple of colleagues, he was locked
18:30up upstate.
18:32I wanted to document whatever he said just in case he later denied it.
18:37So I decided to use a hidden camera.
18:40What's up, man?
18:41I'm very, very grateful that you decided to come in and talk to me.
18:45I appreciate it.
18:46I said, I don't even like, I don't even know where to start.
18:50They said, I wasn't the one that killed him saying that I set this up for them, for the
18:54place to get robbed.
18:56They had the dope and everything.
18:58They was like, fuck that.
19:00That shit ain't nothing.
19:01I don't have nothing to do with this, man.
19:03I went in there to make a transaction and was in the wrong place at the wrong time.
19:09They was mainly on me and I'm tired, scared, you know what I mean?
19:14That's the main thing I was scared, like, I mean, I can't go to jail for the hype or something
19:18I didn't do.
19:19Young black men ain't got no job.
19:21I'm not in school enough.
19:22Right.
19:23So that's what came about me pointing the finger at to my, like, I don't know if I really
19:28picked out the right person.
19:29I don't know if it really is.
19:32You know what I mean?
19:32That was a huge moment for me, because if it's not for him picking that picture out,
19:44John Adrian would never have been associated with this case at all.
19:47After I interviewed Augustus Brown, what he told me I felt was so consequential.
20:06Here was the key eyewitness who first linked JJ to the crime, basically telling me he thought
20:12he picked out the wrong guy, but there were other eyewitnesses that identified JJ.
20:19Within hours of the crime, eyewitnesses described the shooter as a light-skinned black man.
20:25Some said he had braids.
20:29To me, it was clear that JJ wasn't black.
20:33He was Latino.
20:34And he said he never had braids.
20:42I wasn't going to make any conclusion about his guilt or innocence until I spoke with everyone
20:47they could find.
20:48All of these eyewitnesses were very reluctant, so I decided to wear a hidden camera to get
20:54the truth.
20:57Phillip Jones was at the gambling spot that day.
21:00You know Phillip Jones?
21:01Hey, oh, I'm looking for Phillip Jones?
21:05No.
21:06We had met once before.
21:07He had given me his number, but he hadn't been answering my calls.
21:10Phillip Jones?
21:11No.
21:13Hey, Phil.
21:15Where did he move to?
21:16Down the block at different house.
21:18You changed your number and you didn't even tell him me.
21:20Yeah.
21:20What's up?
21:22Oh, what's happening?
21:23And by that time, he had signed an affidavit.
21:27I read him back his affidavit to ensure that that's what he really said.
21:31I need it.
21:32On 1-27-98, I was present at 2335 8th Avenue, New York, New York.
21:38I witnessed my friend Albert Ward get shot and killed.
21:41I saw that.
21:41On 2-298, I viewed a lineup in which I picked out an individual as being the shooter.
21:48I picked out this man because I thought the man looked like the shooter, but I was not
21:51sure.
21:52I told the police this was the guy and I was sure, but this was not the truth.
21:56I felt pressured because the police were threatening to arrest me and my brother Robert for stealing
22:02money that Albert dropped on the floor after being shot.
22:04I was arrested sometime after Albert Ward was killed and two detectives came to visit
22:09me upstate in Groveland Prison.
22:11The detectives told me they got the right guy and would help me get parole.
22:15I decided to testify at the trial because I felt pressured by the police.
22:19When I saw the defendant in court, I looked in his eyes.
22:21I knew I had picked out the wrong guy and the guy on trial I had never seen before.
22:27Signed, Philip Jones.
22:28There you go.
22:30There you go.
22:31But, so that's all true?
22:33That's all true.
22:33But, nothing.
22:35That's all true?
22:36The guy still sits in prison.
22:37No, that's all true though.
22:39So, that was Philip Jones.
22:42His brother Robert Jones was the one who gave a description to police that ended up in the
22:47sketch.
22:52He said, I think I got the right guy, but at trial, he thought that J.J.'s half-brother
22:58in the courtroom looked more like the shooter than J.J.
23:01No one else has ever suggested that J.J.'s half-brother had anything to do with this crime and there
23:19is zero evidence linking him to it.
23:21So, then I wanted to know what Lorenzo Woodford made of it all.
23:26He was in the gambling parlor buying heroin from Augustus Brown.
23:32I opened the back door and stepped down on this guy and stayed the guy in my face.
23:36Oh, man.
23:37But, when he looked at a live lineup, J.J. was holding number two.
23:42According to police notes, Lorenzo Woodford first says number three, then says maybe number
23:49two, finally says, I'm not positive.
23:52By the time he testified at trial, 18 months later, he was sure that J.J. was the guy.
24:01The kid that I said did it, that's who did it, all right?
24:04I didn't turn him in.
24:06Somebody else turned him in, all right?
24:08They had to have some kind of evidence.
24:09They didn't just take my word for it, all right?
24:11And if they don't believe he did it, let him go.
24:20Dorothy Kennedy was another eyewitness.
24:24She had passed away by the time I wanted to speak with her.
24:28But when I got to the part of the trial transcript, when she's asked to identify the shooter in
24:32the courtroom, she doesn't even identify J.J. sitting at the defense table.
24:41She points to juror number six.
24:44And the prosecutor even comes back at her and pushes her a little bit, like, are you sure?
24:49Look around the courtroom, and she says, yes, that's the guy.
24:53I couldn't believe it.
24:56I couldn't understand how juror number six would vote to convict after someone picked
25:02him out as the gunman.
25:08You, juror number six, you were picked out when they said, point to the shooter in the
25:13courtroom, they picked you.
25:14They picked me, yes.
25:15And that's the thing.
25:16It was only funny for the moment, but there's something wrong with that, you know?
25:20I mean, here she is, she's at the witness stand, and she's pointing at the jury box.
25:26What does that say about the quality of the eyewitnesses?
25:29Bad.
25:31Real bad.
25:32Every one of the witnesses has a criminal record, or they, you know, they're not credible at all.
25:37Eventually, 12 objective people, you being among them, sat around the table and all unanimously
25:48said, we believe the eyewitnesses.
25:52I really think I didn't do the right thing.
25:57The evidence that actually convicted J.J. was looking a lot weaker than when I first started
26:04learning about this case.
26:05Evidence at this point is pointing away from J.J., not towards J.J.
26:10You know what our deal is, right?
26:27Yep.
26:28Never lie.
26:29Always tell the truth and keep it honest with each other.
26:33Yeah.
26:34Yeah.
26:34We're coming down.
26:35We're coming down.
26:35Yeah.
26:36Okay.
26:40Hey, we're out.
26:41We're out.
26:42We're out.
26:42We're out.
26:46This is the way to the school building.
26:52Seeing the streets like that, you know, it gives you drive for freedom.
26:59Like they're on the other side of the mountains.
27:02Homes not far.
27:02Happy birthday, J.J.
27:13Thank you, grandma.
27:17J.J., J.J., happy birthday to you.
27:25Give me a kiss.
27:35Pick you up in the morning to go see daddy.
27:38To get your book bag and your school supplies.
27:41He's going?
27:42Yeah, he's going.
27:46He's going.
27:47He made a pinky promise.
27:49This is the jail that my dad is in.
28:14We had a lot of fun.
28:14Over there, there's a cell block.
28:19There's a boat over there.
28:22Across is where me and my grandma live.
28:25There's a watch guard in there.
28:26He watches everybody.
28:29We're going to see my dad on the next weekend.
28:36So, Jacob, did you have a lot of fun?
28:40Yes.
28:40You good?
28:42Yes.
28:56Let's begin in Manhattan, where for the first time in 35 years, there will be a new district attorney.
29:01Robert Morgenthau is retiring at age 90, and tonight, we learned who will replace him.
29:06Cyrus Vance, a former Manhattan prosecutor who also spent time as a defense attorney, is the winner by a comfortable margin.
29:13The new DA had just been elected.
29:15His name is Cyrus Vance.
29:17In taking this oath, I am mindful of our dual responsibilities as prosecutors to protect the innocent from wrongful conviction as much as the victims who have been wronged.
29:28So, I went to DA Vance's transition website, and I saw the name of an attorney that I recognized from another story I had covered, Bob Gottlieb.
29:38I knew I needed to get JJ's case in front of some legal authority that could deal with it, whether he was guilty or not.
29:50So, I called Bob, and he asked to see JJ's files, and he and his partner, Celia Gordon, decided to take the case pro bono.
30:02We're going to the office of Gottlieb and Celia Gordon.
30:16Today is going to be the first day that I meet them.
30:21It's been a long time that I've been waiting for this, and I'm filled with a lot of emotion.
30:27What happened during the trial, in and of itself, raises questions for us as to whether or not this could be a wrongful conviction.
30:36We need to approach this in a very unbiased way and walk down the middle of the line right now in our investigation.
30:46I know this has been a very long, long haul for you, and tell me, I'm sure you have some questions for us.
30:55I'm just waiting for the phone call that comes in to tell me some new evidence that's going to free my son.
31:06That's all I'm waiting for.
31:08You can be sure we're doing everything to get to the bottom of this.
31:13I believe that one day it will happen, and I believe for some reason I just feel that it's going to be soon.
31:24I believe that one day it will happen.
31:30When my son got locked up, I made a commitment to my grandchildren
32:00to try to give them the best life that I possibly could.
32:07I had them in Catholic school.
32:09I saw them practically every day.
32:12I took them to see their father.
32:16I let my needs go to the wayside to meet their needs.
32:21I did the best that I possibly could.
32:27Sometimes I think I fail twice around.
32:34You're not allowed to leave on your own, right?
32:36No.
32:37No.
32:38I'm 16 now.
32:42I made a mistake when I was 15.
32:45I had a fight with some kids, and I got locked up.
32:53Wow.
32:54Wow.
32:55Do you look like your father?
32:56Yeah.
32:58Yeah.
32:59Yeah.
33:00Yeah.
33:01Yeah.
33:02Yeah.
33:03I'm not allowed to do any courts.
33:04I've been having anger since I was young.
33:08Sometimes I don't know how to control it.
33:10It's not something I like to have.
33:15You ever thought about why you get so mad your whole life?
33:20Sometimes I would like to blame it on my father, but then I don't want to.
33:25Because, again, it's my life.
33:27It's my choices why I get mad.
33:29There's certain things that bug me, and that's not because of him.
33:32It may have something to do with him, but it's because of me.
33:35What do you say, because of your father?
33:36What do you mean?
33:37Because, like, he's locked up.
33:39Like, I don't like the fact that he's locked up.
33:42Like, certain things get me mad.
33:44Like, everybody that's on the basketball team bring their father to come play basketball,
33:48and it was going to be fathers versus sons, and, like, I felt some type of way about that.
33:52Like, certain things that, like, I couldn't do because of just where my father is.
33:58The DA's office or prosecutor's office should have an independent internal check for the accused
34:12to make sure that justice is done in every case.
34:15I have proposed a conviction integrity unit for the DA's office.
34:21The whole point of a conviction integrity unit, called the CIU,
34:25is to reinvestigate claims of innocence of people who were in prison
34:29and to prevent wrongful convictions.
34:32We don't have anything to be afraid of.
34:33What we have to be afraid of is making sure that wrongfully convicted people are not staying in jail.
34:44JJ's lawyers, Bob and Celia, had been working on his case for more than a year
34:48when they decided to bring it to the Manhattan DA's newly formed Conviction Integrity Unit.
34:55The beginning starts with this.
35:15That's pretty big.
35:16That's your copy.
35:17Thanks.
35:18What you have there is what we're going to be presenting to the DA.
35:24On Thursday.
35:25Okay.
35:26We're going to the Conviction Integrity Unit because that's the most direct way.
35:31And we highlight what the legal and factual problems are with this case.
35:39The witnesses have recanted their identifications and changed their trial testimony.
35:44So that's the hook.
35:45That's the new information which tells the DA, you've got to take a look at this.
35:51So what we're asking the district attorney to do at this point is investigate all of these leads.
35:57Everything that wasn't done before, do it now.
35:59It's going to take time.
36:01All I know is time.
36:02That's all I know.
36:03I appreciate everything you're doing.
36:04It's a work for my exoneration hopefully one day.
36:06And I understand how difficult this is.
36:07I know that it's going to take time.
36:08And I know that there's a possibility that I might spend the rest of my life in prison.
36:13This is the best I've ever had.
36:14I've never had a second chance.
36:15You know?
36:16This is it.
36:17Okay?
36:18It should end at this stage.
36:19If it does, we'll be there when you walk out.
36:20And if it doesn't, then we'll go through another door.
36:21Okay.
36:22Thank you, sir.
36:23They handed over to the DA's office and they were told that they were going to go
36:28fair, thorough, objective reinvestigation would happen in a search for the truth.
36:58This is honor block.
37:23Individuals have to wait four years to get in here, sometimes three years, without a
37:27ticket, which means that their behavior is upheld modestly.
37:30However, a person goes through the wrong thing on the wrong time and you say the wrong thing
37:35to them, you might be a victim.
37:38A man was killed in the basement right here, in the laundromat.
37:42And it was over a minor argument.
37:44You know?
37:45And it escalated to something bigger.
37:47And when he murdered him, the whole jail got locked down for approximately nine days.
37:52It's torture, but it's reality.
37:56And as long as there's breath in my body, I gotta fight.
38:01You know?
38:02I don't have a choice.
38:03I got a family I gotta get back out to.
38:05I got a back, too.
38:06Oh.
38:12Do you know his number?
38:41Can't never forget it.
38:44Shoes on the counter.
38:49All right, let's go through the machine.
38:51Yeah.
38:52Good.
38:53All the way down.
39:06What's up, kid?
39:07Let's go.
39:10I love him.
39:11I love you, too.
39:13How you doing?
39:17Getting grazed.
39:19What's up?
39:21What's life like, man?
39:23I just made five months today in my program.
39:26Five months?
39:27Thought you had more.
39:29I've been locked up since November, but I went there in January 7th.
39:34What do you think your biggest issue is that you need help with?
39:38Be honest to yourself.
39:39I'm not gonna lie.
39:40The only thing is anger.
39:42You got a lot of anger pent up.
39:44What makes you angry?
39:45It's just everything that I grew up in.
39:47Right.
39:48I feel if he was there, it'd be different.
39:49I know I wouldn't be where I'm at right now if he was there.
39:52I feel the same way.
39:53That's for sure.
39:54I feel the same way.
39:55I felt like, from when I was little, a lot was already taken from me.
40:01So I couldn't have what a regular person is supposed to grow up into.
40:06A mother and a father for me.
40:08Right.
40:09Things that are supposed to be given, like a mother and a father.
40:13That happened because your father was blamed for something he didn't do.
40:17Your mother knows this firsthand because she was there.
40:20My mother was on the phone with me, which is why my mother's in so much pain.
40:25Because she knows I'm innocent.
40:27There's no evidence linking me to this crime because I was never there, Jay.
40:32What's happened to you is a product of what happened to me.
40:36And you have a right to be angry about that.
40:38But we're going to have to find a way to deal with it together.
40:41Because you being angry is leading to what?
40:46It's not leading to anything positive.
40:48I don't want you to live this life, Jay.
40:50I don't know how to change.
40:52And when I don't know what to do, I do what I know.
40:56And all I really know is the streets and how I grew up.
40:59You had a rough upbringing, man.
41:01If grandma didn't come and pick you up every weekend for almost 12 years
41:07and bring you to see your father, you wouldn't know who I am.
41:11I wouldn't know who you are.
41:13And I love who you are.
41:16I'm trying.
41:17I can't say I'm doing it, but I'm making an effort.
41:20It's a problem.
41:21I'm changing now, but...
41:22I see it.
41:23I just don't know when for me it's going, that 360 going in.
41:27Well, you got to get 180 before you get 360.
41:30And it looks like you're getting...
41:31I'm at 120 right now.
41:32Yeah, it looks like you're getting there.
41:33120, maybe 140.
41:34Yeah.
41:35Yeah.
41:36Grandma's on her way.
41:37Oh.
41:38Mwah.
41:39Mwah.
41:40Mwah.
41:41Love you.
41:42Everything's going good.
41:43Yeah.
41:44We had some quality time together, right?
41:45Put a lot of issues on the table.
41:46Yeah.
41:47We got a pretty good understanding.
41:48Grandma confused.
41:49She's on her diet, remember?
41:50It's peer pressure.
41:51Take them home.
41:52Peer pressure?
41:53It don't work on me.
41:54See, that's what a true leader does.
41:56Come on, let's get a group hug.
41:57Mwah.
41:58I love you guys.
41:59Mwah.
42:00Mwah.
42:01Mwah.
42:02Mwah.
42:03Mwah.
42:04Mwah.
42:05Mwah.
42:06Mwah.
42:07Mwah.
42:08Mwah.
42:09Mwah.
42:10Mwah.
42:11Mwah.
42:12Mwah.
42:13Mwah.
42:14Mwah.
42:15Mwah.
42:16Mwah.
42:17Mwah.
42:18Mwah.
42:19Mwah.
42:20Mwah.
42:21Mwah.
42:22Mwah.
42:23Mwah.
42:24Mwah.
42:25Mwah.
42:26Mwah.
42:27Mwah.
42:28Mwah.
42:29Mwah.
42:30Mwah.
42:31Mwah.
42:32Mwah.
42:33Mwah.
42:34Mwah.
42:35Mwah.
42:36Mwah.
42:37Mwah.
42:38Mwah.
42:39Mwah.
42:40Mwah.
42:41Mwah.
42:42Mwah.
42:43Mwah.
42:44Mwah.
42:45Mwah.
42:46Mwah.
42:47you ready all you're gonna do is tell the truth that's it at the end of that first decade once
43:00i started to believe that he was innocent there wasn't a night that went by that i didn't think
43:05about him lying in that cage are we good everyone good there wasn't a night that went by that i
43:13think about his kids when dateline aired i felt like i had done my job
43:31and i thought people who took an oath
43:36who were responsible for all of us people who could take your liberty
43:42people who can take your freedom those people i thought they would take
43:50it seriously we'll get right into some big topics that we want to talk about with you
43:55we're all assistant da sherman had it we're very familiar with the facts of the case but what the
44:00da's office cared about was their conviction that's what they cared about enough is enough
44:07free the innocent free the innocent
44:37you
44:43you
44:43you
44:43you
44:45you
44:45you
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