Zelensky-Macron agreements 'very clearly a successful visit' after leaving empty-handed in the US

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00:00Let's deepen our analysis. It's joined by Peter Zalmayer, director and founder of the Eurasia

00:03Democracy Initiative. Peter, as always, it's a pleasure to have you with us on France 24.

00:08We're discussing this. I think it is good news from Paris, though there are certain riders on

00:13that, because clearly whilst it is a major announcement to be getting 100 Rafale jets,

00:19this isn't going to happen overnight. It's not going to happen overnight, but I think it serves

00:25a dual purpose of both, you know, allowing President Macron to say that, look, I mean,

00:31I've been saying all along that Ukraine needs to step up and support Europe. I've actually promised

00:36Donald Trump. I'm doing it and not only doing it as a part of my promised Donald Trump, but I'm

00:43actually helping Europe grown, French grown, you know, industry. I mean, he did mention that,

00:50you know, it would be, it would not be very fair, you know, to be using European taxpayers' money,

00:57French taxpayers' money to pay for American weaponry. So this is a way to assert very muscularly

01:03French's, you know, France's position when it comes to the Ukrainian question. And for President

01:09Zelensky, of course, even if this Rafale will not be coming anytime soon, and there'll be, you know,

01:16obviously this will take some time. Something that we just discussed with you, Mark, the other day,

01:23he is, you know, buried pretty, you know, you know, pretty deep in this scandal that is showing

01:30no signs of abating. There are now conjectures that it may actually spread much wider and deeper and

01:37involve other government officials. There are even rumors now swirling that the former

01:42Minister of Defense, Mr. Omerov, is hiding outside of Ukraine and is not, you know, planning to return.

01:49So this is obviously something that Zelensky needs to try to deflect attention from the scandal. He's

01:55visiting, as you know, Madrid after Paris. And compared to his last visit to Washington, when he

02:01came away empty-handed with no tomahawks, this is very clearly a successful visit.

02:08Before we continue with defense, let's go back to the corruption scandal you were talking about

02:13there, Pete. I mean, clearly, the fact that Ukraine is being open and honest about this,

02:17or appears to be in terms of the reporting, has to be a good sign, because there are many countries

02:21where this will just be swept under the carpet. It's very important that Ukraine is open,

02:26and Zelensky is open about this.

02:27This is indeed the silver lining, and this is the distinguishing major factor from what's happening

02:35in Russia. I mean, to be quite frank, these corruption scandals actually pop up in Russia

02:43as well. And there are these show trials and dressing downs on TV by Vladimir Putin. But those

02:48are probably selective. And, you know, there are many more that we are not aware of. And those,

02:53of course, who are still, you know, part of Vladimir Putin's orbit, we can congesture,

02:58may be mired so deeply in corruption, we just won't know, because they're still loyal.

03:03This shows that even those who are loyal to Zelensky and who were his associates, such as this,

03:08the main, you know, figurant in this, the main player in this saga, Mr. Mindich, who is now fled

03:15and is apparently hiding in Israel, was a close associate of Zelensky, was actually essentially

03:22owner of the studio, you know, company, the TV company where Zelensky, you know, played,

03:30including played president before he became president. But at the same time, we're seeing

03:36how that, you know, justice may be coming for them as well. I mean, this is something to be

03:40quite frank and to be fair to the Ukrainian president. Zelensky can point to and say,

03:44look, this is just another example that yes, while there are still issues of corruption,

03:50there's a decisive, you know, break with the past, in that we do not show favorites.

03:59We are actually following the, you know, the well-known example of the former, the late

04:04president of Singapore, Lee Kuan Yew. You know, we meet our justice irrespective, regardless

04:10of who these people are. So in this context, Peter, sorry to cut across you, Peter, in this

04:16context, it's even more important that this deal, this statement of intent has been signed

04:22with France by President Zelensky and Macron. It's even more important as a show of intent

04:29and good behavior and the right way to go for the rest of Europe perhaps to follow, maybe

04:34for the United States to reassess its position. Well, yes, indeed. And of course, what we're

04:41seeing in Washington in this for now is giving ammunition to those detractors of Ukraine on,

04:49you know, on the hill and around the hill and in the house and outside the house, MAGA coalition

04:54of Donald Trump. But those people sort of like on the other side of the Atlantic, Mr. Orban and his,

04:59you know, Foreign Minister Peter Siarta, they were never thrilled with the idea of continuing

05:03to support Ukraine to start with. They did not really need this to continue down the same path.

05:09You know, at the same time, we're seeing how, you know, other voices are reasserting themselves

05:13and actually trying, you know, to more than, you know, hold their own in this debate, including

05:20President Macron, who actually quite snidely and quite kind of cleverly alluded to, you know,

05:25promises of resolving this conflict within 24 hours and how it's really hard to keep those promises.

05:31This is a clever way, and it's not the first time he's doing it. And Alexander Schaub, the president

05:36of Finland, just said, made a very, you know, strong and timely statement that despite the

05:41disheartening things happening in Ukraine, when it comes to corruption, we have to not only continue

05:46supporting Ukraine, but we need to step up our support. And we're seeing how this divide is,

05:51you know, broadening, widening between the Europe of Prime Minister Orban, who's been,

05:57of course, emboldened with the re-election of Donald Trump, his ally, and folks like Macron

06:02and Stubb, who are saying that Ukraine is our first line of defence against a very revanchist

06:09and dangerous Russia.

06:12Peter Zalmayev of the Eurasia Democracy Initiative. As always, sir, thank you for joining us.

06:16Stay safe out there, Peter.

06:18Very pleasure to have you as always, Peter, joining us from Kiev. Thank you, sir, very much indeed.

06:24We take a short break. After that, it's Eye on Africa. Stay with us for that.

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