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Red Fort blast web of terror revealed, cleric who radicalised doctors arrested
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00:00Good evening, you're watching India First. I'm Gaurav Savant.
00:03We begin this special broadcast with the image of the Imam of the Naugam Mosque in Kashmir.
00:10And you will ask me, why is this image of the Imam of the Naugam Mosque so important?
00:15Because the Imam of the Naugam Mosque is the man who is suspected to have systematically indoctrinated
00:24not one, not two, but half a dozen doctors from the government medical college in Srinagar.
00:32So this Imam of Naugam systematically indoctrinated Dr. Adil, Dr. Muzammil, Dr. Umar Mohamed,
00:42the suspected suicide bomber, Dr. Sajjad Ahmed and one of the arrested doctors,
00:47Dr. Muzammil apparently influenced the brother-sister duo from Uttar Pradesh,
00:52Dr. Shaheen Shida and Dr. Parvez Ansari.
00:57And during the course of this broadcast, I'll show you images of all the accused and suspects.
01:03The man you see on your television screen, the image that you see, this is Malvi Irfan Ahmed.
01:12This Malvi Irfan Ahmed is the cleric from Shopeya.
01:17Malvi Irfan Ahmed was actually a paramedic, a paramedical staff at the government medical college in Srinagar.
01:24And he would interact with young influential, you know, young doctors and he would start influencing them.
01:31He would start playing his mind games with them every day.
01:36He stands accused of systematically indoctrinating them and turning them to his cause, the cause of terror.
01:43And over the course of the next one hour, we decode this systematic brainwashing of the young professional doctors.
01:51In the past, there have been instances of engineers, IT professionals.
01:56Because you would think when we were attacked in Mumbai in 2008, 26-11 Mumbai terror attacks,
02:02So you would think that, okay, an Ajmal Amir Kasab, that Pakistani terrorist of Lashkar-e-Taiba, he was illiterate.
02:09He probably didn't know better.
02:11But what about these doctors?
02:13Each and every one of these doctors, look, this lady doctor, for example, Dr. Shaheen Shahid.
02:19She's not only MBBS, she's also MS.
02:23She's done a master's degree in medicine.
02:25So she has application of mind, of her brain and yet, she was influenced according to the police.
02:33So Dr. Adil arrested from Saharanpur, a resident of Vanpura in Kulgaam.
02:38Or Dr. Muzzammil arrested from Faridabad and weapons were found, assault rifles were found.
02:432,900 kilograms of ammonium nitrate was found.
02:46At the behest of these doctors, employees of Alfala Hospital.
02:51Now, Alfala Hospital in Faridabad is also under the scanner.
02:54Or Dr. Umar Mohamad or Dr. Shaheen Shahidah from Lakhnao.
02:58One would question, or Dr. Parvez Ansari, who's believed to be absconding even now,
03:02or Dr. Sajjad Ahmed, who's been picked up for questioning,
03:05why would educated doctors become so radicalized that they would want to bleed their own country
03:11unless they thought India is not their country,
03:14unless they were more convinced about the cause of a hostile neighbor of India?
03:19It's all a matter of investigation.
03:21We get to those details.
03:22What was their target?
03:25Was Jaisa Mohamad trying to target Red Fort like it has tried in the past?
03:30Was it the Gauri Shankar Temple?
03:31Was it the Jain Temple?
03:33Or, as some in the police believe, was it an accidental blast?
03:38The explosives were in transit and it exploded.
03:42We'll explore.
03:43I'm Gaurav Savant.
03:44As always, let's get started with the headlines on India First.
03:53CCTV footage of the I-20 car surfaces.
03:57The suspect Dr. Umar Mohamad seen inside the I-20 wearing a black mask.
04:01The car entered Delhi from the Badarpur toll plaza at 8.13 a.m. yesterday.
04:12Delhi blast accused Umar has a chequered past.
04:17The doctor was thrown out of hospital after the death of a patient in 2023.
04:23Police on the hunt for other doctors.
04:32The heat mounts.
04:34The jihadi lady doctor of terror, Shaheen Shahida, involved in the Faridabad terror module, has been arrested.
04:40Sources say jihadi doctor was tasked to establish Jaisa Mohamad's women wing.
04:47And Bihar appears to have replicated its historic voter turnout even in the second phase.
04:59More than 68.6% voter turnout recorded in the second phase in Bihar.
05:11Terror hits home in Pakistan.
05:13A suicide attack near the Islamabad court leaves at least 12 dead.
05:18More than 20 injured in Pakistan.
05:35This special broadcast, I get you details of the Imam of Terror.
05:40That is what the police believe.
05:41Doctor, this man, Maulvi Irfan Ahmed was.
05:45He's a cleric from Shropiya.
05:46He's accused of radicalizing the doctors at GMC Srinagar.
05:51He himself is a para-medical staff.
05:55A joint team of Jammu and Kashmir Police Intelligence Agency's Srinagar Police.
06:00They've arrested Irfan Ahmed Vage, the Imam of the mosque in Naugam, Shropiya.
06:06Investigators believe the Imam of the Naugam mosque played a critical role in radicalizing the doctors of the government medical college in Srinagar.
06:16And he is linked to the Faridabad explosives case directly.
06:20During the raid, even his home was raided and officers have seized at least five different mobile phone handsets.
06:31His wife has also now been taken into custody for questioning.
06:35Irfan's arrest marks a very significant breakthrough in the investigation into the explosive material case.
06:41Explosives, 2,900 kilograms of ammonium nitrate, timers, devices, pencils, assault rifles, live ammunition that was recovered in Faridabad.
06:54And this actually adds another layer to the rapidly expanding white collar terror network that's currently under scrutiny.
07:05The man you see on your television screen, the Imam of the Naugam mosque, stands accused of indoctrinating Dr. Adil, Dr. Muzambil, Dr. Umar, Dr. Shaheen, Dr. Parvez Ansari,
07:15who's currently absconding and several others.
07:17I want to bring in India today's Ashraf Vani for more on this big story.
07:23Ashraf joins us with the latest in investigations from Kashmir.
07:27Ashraf, what more do we know of Maulwi Irfan Ahmed and his alleged role?
07:33Because apparently this is only the tip of the iceberg.
07:36Five doctors, apparently it's a much longer list.
07:39Gauru, actually the Maulwi Irfan, who is the Imam of a local mosque in Shrinagar, but hails from the Nandigam, which is a village in the Shopyan district of South Kashmir.
07:55He was arrested in the third week of October.
07:59In fact, it was the first arrest after the pasting of some posters in the Anandigam, where after that CCTV footage, a boy was detained by the German Kashmir police,
08:11who gave the name of this Imam who handed over him the posters.
08:16The Imam was then arrested and he was interrogated on his tip of Dr. Adil first was arrested from Saharanpur,
08:24and then on the Dr. Adil's identification, assault rifle, some ammunition was recovered from the locker of Government Medical College here in Anandigam.
08:37And these links were joined by the security agencies, particularly by the intelligence agencies,
08:44which led the arrest of another doctor in Faridabad.
08:49And in the Faridabad, then the recovery of 9,500 kg of ammonium nitrate was made.
08:57And in fact, now once again, the CIK, the intelligence bureau of the German Kashmir police, today raided his residence.
09:05His wife was detained also because the police believes that there is some role of his wife in recruiting the woman force in the Jayashi Mohammed,
09:16and also some phones were also recovered from their residence in Shopeyan.
09:24The police is believing that probably this local Imam from the Shopeyan, who has also worked in the GMC, Srinagar Government Medical College,
09:34Srinagar, was the main person who has radicalized these doctors of South Kashmir,
09:40first in the Government Medical College, in Srinagar, then in other areas.
09:45Then those doctors in a unity clubbed with one another and made this module, which is yet to be busted.
09:54Because we have seen that there was a blast at Red Fort yesterday.
09:58One doctor is believed it was made a suicide blast there.
10:02It is not yet clear whether he has been killed in that blast or not.
10:06But there are many more doctors and other professionals which may be involved with this module,
10:14which is separately and as it is called as a white collar terrorism in the country.
10:18That's a very, very pertinent point you're making and you stay with me, Ashraf.
10:23That's a very pertinent point you're making.
10:25It's only a part of the module that's been busted with these arrests.
10:29There are several who are absconding and there are several others.
10:33Munish and Munish Pandey now joins me from Red Fort where the blast took place.
10:38There are several others who could still be out there.
10:40Munish, that is why there is clear and present danger.
10:43So, 2,900 kilograms of ammonium nitrate was recovered.
10:49Some assault rifles, some live ammunition, some devices, some timers recovered.
10:54But the agencies, do they know the entire amount and the entire module
10:59and how many others did this imam indoctrinate?
11:08Well, Gaurav, this is a very important question
11:11and that is why not only the police of three states,
11:15which is Jammu and Kashmir Police,
11:17the Haryana Police and the Delhi Police.
11:19NIA is also trying to unfold what exactly has happened so far
11:25and also how this entire module was operating.
11:29It is believed that the Jammu and Kashmir Police
11:32was able to bust the module,
11:35but unfortunately, it looks like there are other active members of this module
11:40who are still hiding, who are still absconding
11:43and that is why it becomes very critical
11:45after the blast which was carried out by Dr. Umar Mohamad
11:50that all those active members are not only arrested
11:53but brought to justice.
11:55That is why, Gaurav, what was important today
11:57was the questioning by the Faridabad Police.
12:01There were three accomplices of Dr. Umar Mohamad
12:05who were questioned by the Faridabad Police.
12:08At the same time, Jammu and Kashmir Police also questioned
12:11at least three to four individuals
12:13who are linked to Dr. Umar Mohamad
12:15and it is believed that there are many such individuals,
12:19Gaurav, who might be part of this entire network.
12:23So, the prime job of NIA...
12:24Gentlemen, stay with me.
12:26Gentlemen, stay with me.
12:26I want to throw this open for a wider discussion
12:29because there is clear and present danger
12:30not just to Delhi but to several other cities across our country.
12:36A doctor takes an oath to heal
12:39but these doctors stand accused of plotting to kill.
12:44Imagine the scale of their planning to target India.
12:47If 2,900 kilograms of ammonium nitrate was recovered
12:49along with timers and batteries and assault rifles
12:52and live ammunition, police suspect that their plan
12:54was actually a multi-state simultaneous operation
12:58to burn India.
12:59Apparently, as revenge for the killing of the family
13:03of that maulana of terror, Masood Azhar,
13:05in Pakistan during Operation Sindhu.
13:08There are multiple questions,
13:09including is there corroborative evidence?
13:12What was their intention?
13:13The reason for their indoctrination?
13:15And whether this was by design
13:17or as some in the investigating agencies suspect,
13:20perhaps Dr. Muhammad Umar, he panicked.
13:24He was transporting these explosives
13:27or rather IED from point A to point B,
13:30stayed near the Sunehri Masjid for several hours
13:32and while the vehicle was in transit,
13:35there was an explosion.
13:36Joining me on this India First special broadcast
13:38is left-in-channel Sayyad Atta Hasnain.
13:40General Hasnain commanded the Kashmir Corps
13:43and he knows the minds of the people.
13:48Dr. Tara Kartha is former director
13:49at the National Security Council Secretariat.
13:52Yashavardhan Azad is former special director
13:54of India's Intelligence Bureau.
13:56Shishpal Vaid, SP Vaid,
13:59is former director general
14:00of Jammu and Kashmir Police.
14:01And Zeenat Shokatali is the founder,
14:04director general of an organization
14:06that strives for peace and harmony.
14:10I want to bring in General Hasnain.
14:12General Hasnain,
14:13your reading of this entire episode
14:16and the arrest of so many doctors,
14:19Dr. Adil, Dr. Muzammil,
14:20Dr. Umar Muhammad apparently killed,
14:22Dr. Shahida Shaheen,
14:24Dr. Parvez Ansari absconding,
14:26Dr. Sajjad Ahmed taken into custody.
14:29Thank you, Gaurav.
14:31Let me start by firstly expressing
14:32my deep regret
14:33for the loss of Indian lives
14:36and that's something we always regret
14:39whenever an incident of this kind takes place.
14:41Having said that,
14:42I've been following your complete assessment
14:44and that of Ashraf Vani from Kashmir.
14:48I'm completely with you.
14:50What you must remember in this, Gaurav,
14:53is that you are really seeing
14:54the tip of the iceberg.
14:56Because this kind of a thing
14:59is essentially linked to
15:02overground worker networks
15:04in Jammu and Kashmir.
15:06That's where you may have killed
15:084,000 terrorists, as we are saying,
15:11but you have not been able
15:13to eliminate those networks.
15:15It's very, very difficult neutralizing them
15:17and from time to time,
15:19they keep resurfacing.
15:21Now, these elements
15:22that you are looking at today
15:23at the moment
15:24are all an extension
15:26of those networks
15:27into the rest of India.
15:28And we are very fortunate
15:30that our intelligence agencies,
15:33the Jammu and Kashmir police,
15:34along with the other two states,
15:36have been able to get
15:37to the bottom of this
15:38right in the beginning.
15:40Last 15 days,
15:41they have been working on this
15:42and they've been able
15:43to neutralize this module
15:45to a very large extent.
15:47I'm sure as time goes along,
15:48we'll be able to do it completely.
15:50But I think a lot of acquisitions
15:53and allegations
15:54are being made
15:54about an intelligence failure
15:56and things like that.
15:57Let me tell people
15:58who are alleging that,
16:00that no, 1% case
16:02where you fail,
16:03you will invariably
16:04have an incident of this kind.
16:06But remember that 99%
16:08of the cases,
16:09we have succeeded always.
16:11India has been kept safe
16:12for the last 15 years
16:13from these kind of incidents.
16:15All our urban areas,
16:17all our metropolises
16:18have been safe,
16:19except for me in Jamun Kashmir
16:20where a proxy war
16:21was on all these days.
16:23So I have no doubt
16:24about the professionalism
16:25of India's intelligence agencies
16:27and police forces
16:27and they will deliver
16:29as we come along.
16:30Okay, let me,
16:31since you raised the point
16:32of intelligence,
16:33alleged intelligence failure
16:34by some,
16:35let me bring in
16:36Yashav Ardhan Azad,
16:37former special director
16:38of the Intelligence Bureau.
16:40Mr. Azad,
16:42when you look at
16:42this entire operation,
16:44the arrests,
16:45the recoveries,
16:45the chaps
16:46who are still absconding
16:47and this alleged suicide attack,
16:52do you look at it
16:52as a success
16:54of our intelligence agencies
16:55and investigating agencies
16:57and police
16:57in preventing a major disaster
16:59or do you look at it
17:00as failure as some do?
17:01No, certainly,
17:04I mean,
17:05you know,
17:06every time
17:06a terrorist act
17:08takes place
17:08to blame
17:09the intelligence agencies
17:10and to blame
17:11the security forces
17:13is certainly not wise.
17:15Imagine the kind
17:16of mass killing
17:17or disaster
17:18which has been prevented.
17:20You look at that module,
17:21that module
17:22was absolutely ripe
17:23with 2,900 kgs
17:26of explosives.
17:27You remember
17:28in Oklahoma,
17:29there were only
17:29two tons of explosives
17:31and what a loss
17:32it created
17:33and imagine
17:34if this could have
17:35been activated
17:36then what would
17:37have happened?
17:38So, imagine that for us.
17:40Mr. Azad,
17:41you've raised
17:41a very pertinent point.
17:42I want you to elaborate
17:43on this.
17:442,900 kgs
17:45of ammonium nitrate
17:46fuel oil,
17:47what could this
17:48have done, sir?
17:49I mean,
17:49this,
17:50the idea
17:51was definitely
17:52to create terror
17:53in the minds
17:54of people.
17:55You remember
17:56the kind of blasts
17:57which were taking
17:58place in Delhi.
17:59Delhi was safe
17:59for 15 years
18:00remember the kind
18:02of blasts
18:02which were taking
18:03place in Sarojni
18:04Nagar,
18:04Lajpat Nagar
18:05and all those
18:05areas.
18:06I've covered
18:07all of those.
18:07I've covered
18:08all of those
18:08on ground.
18:09That's why I'm
18:10telling you.
18:12So, you can
18:12imagine with this,
18:14the recce
18:14which was done
18:15of RSS headquarters,
18:16the places
18:17which were seen.
18:18Suppose this car
18:19which was supposed
18:20to, I don't know
18:22whether it was
18:22supposed to detonate
18:23there or it may
18:24have, you know,
18:26rammed into
18:26a new building.
18:27Remember,
18:27it was a JEM
18:28car which
18:30attacked the
18:30JNK building
18:31in October 1,
18:322001.
18:35So, if you look
18:36at all this
18:37and the mass
18:38devastation which
18:39we have escaped,
18:41we should thank.
18:42Of course,
18:42in this particular
18:43case,
18:44the intelligence
18:46agencies and
18:47the security
18:48agencies are
18:48still finding out
18:49whether it was
18:50only one person
18:51in that car
18:52or three.
18:53If there's only
18:54one, then
18:54obviously it was
18:55a suicide attack
18:57or whatever
18:58you can call it.
18:59If there were
18:59three people,
19:00then it happened
19:01by accident.
19:02But nevertheless,
19:03if you look
19:03at the damage,
19:04the purpose is
19:05done.
19:06The aim
19:06is successful,
19:08killing 13
19:09people and
19:1026 injured.
19:11So, I would
19:12say it's a
19:13sensational act,
19:14but the
19:15investigative
19:16agencies are
19:17absolutely on
19:18the right track
19:19and I'm sure
19:20there'll be more
19:21and more linkages
19:22coming out,
19:22as you said.
19:23The story
19:24is not over.
19:25So far,
19:26we have three
19:26states.
19:27How many
19:28he has been
19:29able to
19:29radicalize is
19:30something we
19:30really need to
19:32know.
19:32And remember
19:33one thing,
19:33radicalization
19:34of the educated
19:35has not started
19:36now.
19:36The ISIS was
19:37attempting it
19:38through the
19:38internet long
19:39time back.
19:40And you
19:40remember the
19:41educated people
19:42from Kerala
19:42who had gone
19:43to the ISIS
19:44background.
19:45And many
19:46of them ran
19:47back.
19:47Many of them
19:48ran back.
19:48Some got
19:49killed.
19:50And with
19:50that, we got
19:51to know during
19:52the interrogation
19:53as to how
19:53the educators
19:54were being
19:55trapped.
19:55Before I bring
19:56in Dr. Tara
19:57Kartha and
19:58Zeenat Shaukatali,
19:59I want to
19:59quickly bring
19:59in Mr.
20:00Vaid as
20:00former
20:00director general
20:01of Jammu
20:01and Kashmir
20:01police.
20:03These are
20:03not illiterate
20:05young Muslim
20:06boys who can
20:06be indoctrinated.
20:08They're educated
20:09doctors.
20:10They're actually
20:10the cream of
20:11the Kashmiri
20:11society.
20:12if they're
20:13making it
20:13to GMC
20:14Srinagar,
20:15if they're
20:15making it
20:16to top
20:16medical
20:16colleges,
20:17if they're
20:18becoming
20:18doctors,
20:19it would
20:19mean that
20:20they have
20:20their mental
20:21faculties.
20:21And yet,
20:22if a paramedic
20:23can indoctrinate
20:24them,
20:25sir,
20:26it is very,
20:27very alarming.
20:28They study
20:28from the
20:29taxpayers'
20:30money.
20:30It is your
20:31money and
20:32mine that
20:32pays for
20:33their education.
20:34And then
20:34they ultimately
20:35come and
20:35kill us.
20:36Good evening,
20:38Gaurab.
20:39Good evening
20:39to all my
20:42co-panelists
20:42and your
20:43viewers.
20:44See,
20:44Gaurab,
20:46all of us
20:47who have
20:48worked in
20:48Kashmir Valley
20:49know the
20:50ultimate dream
20:51of Kashmiri
20:52young boys and
20:53girls is to
20:53become doctor.
20:55And having
20:56become doctors,
20:58having secured
20:58jobs,
21:00getting
21:01radicalized
21:02this way,
21:03it's not
21:04normal
21:05madrasa,
21:06educated young
21:08boys.
21:09They are highly
21:09educated,
21:11scientific mind,
21:12rational mind.
21:13And after
21:14that,
21:15if you can
21:16radicalize them
21:17to the extent
21:17of killing
21:18their own
21:19countrymen,
21:20working against
21:22the country,
21:23and even
21:25to the extent
21:26of becoming
21:26a suicide
21:27bomber,
21:28what you
21:28saw yesterday,
21:30what Umar
21:31Muhammad did.
21:33So you
21:34can imagine
21:35the kind
21:35of radicalization
21:37that has
21:38taken place.
21:40We all
21:41know South
21:43Kashmir has
21:44been the
21:44hotbed of
21:45radicalization,
21:48whether it is
21:49Chopaiya,
21:50Pulwama,
21:51Kulgam,
21:52Anantanag,
21:53and all this
21:54is tracing
21:55back to that
21:56area.
21:56in fact,
21:58when I was
21:59police chief,
22:01South Kashmir
22:02was the biggest
22:03headache
22:03post-Burhan
22:05Mani,
22:06and we
22:06only know
22:07how we
22:08brought that
22:09situation back
22:10to normal.
22:10criminals.
22:11So, see,
22:12the worrying
22:12part is
22:13it has
22:14linkages
22:15from
22:17across the
22:18border,
22:19which
22:20investigators
22:21will very
22:22soon find.
22:23It is not
22:24simple,
22:26isolated
22:27module.
22:28Let me tell
22:29you, it's
22:30a very
22:30deep-rooted,
22:32well-planned,
22:34and well-rehearsed
22:38doctor module,
22:41terror module.
22:42I don't know
22:43how many such
22:44modules are
22:44there in other
22:45parts of the
22:46country.
22:46Absolutely,
22:48that's the
22:48threat, that's
22:49the big threat,
22:50Dr. Tara
22:51Kartha.
22:51How many
22:52other such
22:53modules still
22:53exist?
22:54How many
22:54doctors who
22:55are actually
22:56treating us
22:57by day are
22:58plotting to
22:58kill us
22:59by night,
23:00like that
23:00doctor in
23:00Hyderabad
23:01who's been
23:01arrested for
23:02making that
23:03rhizan chemical
23:03for that
23:04toxin, for
23:05that attack
23:06on us?
23:07I mean,
23:07these guys are
23:08doctors' best
23:09education that
23:10money can offer
23:11in India.
23:11They have it,
23:12they have jobs,
23:13and yet they're
23:13plotting to
23:14kill us.
23:16Yes, and
23:16this is when
23:17most of us in
23:18various parts of
23:18the state, you
23:19pay crores to
23:20get a medical
23:20seat, and
23:21then you do
23:22something like
23:22this.
23:23But I would
23:24agree with
23:24what the
23:25previous,
23:26previous,
23:26the earlier
23:27speaker was
23:27saying.
23:28These,
23:28this kind
23:29of people
23:30are not
23:31new.
23:31I mean,
23:31it is still
23:32very dismaying.
23:34And this
23:34module, by
23:35the way, I
23:35think it's
23:37going to go
23:37much further
23:39than what we've
23:39seen as of
23:40now.
23:40I'm so glad.
23:41What I really,
23:42really appreciate
23:43in this
23:43operation is
23:44that all the
23:45agencies are
23:45working together.
23:47It's been
23:47across the
23:48board, people
23:48from Delhi,
23:50Jammu,
23:50everywhere,
23:51everyone is
23:51working together.
23:52That's how we've
23:53been seeing this.
23:53But I just
23:54want to take
23:55you back to
23:56this, you
23:57know, there
23:58was this,
23:58March 25,
23:59there was this
24:00whole Pakistani
24:01gang arrested
24:02in Spain and
24:03Italy, involved
24:05in indoctrination,
24:07a woman
24:07involved in
24:08getting other
24:09women, you
24:10know, into
24:10this kind of
24:11a journey,
24:12all of them
24:12educated.
24:14This is not
24:14something new
24:15for Pakistan.
24:15You had that
24:16earlier, I
24:17mean, that
24:17was blinding.
24:19And a couple
24:20in San
24:20Francisco,
24:21extremely
24:22highly educated
24:23from an
24:24extremely good
24:25family, who
24:26went and shot
24:2614 people.
24:27That lady
24:27had a baby.
24:29So this
24:30is, you
24:31know, this
24:32kind of, for
24:32us, we
24:33tend to think
24:33that the
24:34religious zealots
24:35are, you
24:36know, wild
24:36eyed and,
24:37you know, sort
24:37of from Pope
24:38backgrounds.
24:39I don't
24:40actually see
24:41that across
24:42either in
24:43Al-Qaeda or
24:44in Islamic
24:44state.
24:45It is not
24:46the poor and
24:47hungry who
24:47are doing
24:48this.
24:48They are too,
24:49you know,
24:49bogged down
24:50in their own
24:51troubles.
24:51It is the
24:52middle class
24:53who is getting
24:54into this
24:54ring.
24:55But this
24:55ring...
24:56My worry
24:56is, ma'am,
24:57you are
24:57absolutely
24:58right, Dr.
24:58Zeenat
24:58Shokateli,
24:59my worry
25:00is that
25:01these are
25:01people who
25:02are amongst
25:02us.
25:03They could
25:04be treating
25:04you and
25:05I, they
25:05could be
25:06treating your
25:06child and
25:07mine, your
25:08parents and
25:08mine, and
25:09they could
25:10be secretly
25:11plotting to
25:12kill them
25:13like that
25:13doctor from
25:14Hyderabad who
25:15was making,
25:15who was putting
25:16together chemicals
25:17to put that,
25:18the rhizan
25:19toxin.
25:19You know,
25:20this is very,
25:21very worrisome.
25:21How do these
25:22elements get
25:23indoctrinated despite
25:24having the best
25:25that the Indian
25:25society can offer?
25:26Thank you, Gaurab,
25:29for inviting me to
25:30this program.
25:31The first thing I
25:32would like to say
25:33is that I
25:34totally condemn
25:35this act of
25:37barbarism and
25:38denounce people
25:40of this kind
25:41who take the
25:42name of
25:43Jaish-e-Mohammed
25:44that is related
25:45to Muhammad who
25:46taught you peace,
25:46may peace be
25:47upon it, and
25:48you use the
25:49name of religion
25:49to destroy and
25:51to kill people.
25:51I think they
25:53are highly
25:53condemnable, and
25:55I think that as
25:56a Muslim, I
25:57would like to
25:58say that they
25:59should be put
26:00out of the
26:00pale of Islam
26:01because I will
26:02quote to you
26:03verses, and I
26:04will quote to you
26:05the prophets'
26:05traditions that
26:06say this.
26:07But before I get
26:08into that, I
26:09would like to
26:10say that, you
26:10know, this
26:11entire, you
26:12know, shocking,
26:14shocking, you
26:15know, thing
26:17orchestrated by
26:19educated, arming,
26:21financing,
26:22perpetrating,
26:24radicalizing.
26:26Imagine
26:26radicalizing
26:27people, doctors
26:29who are supposed
26:30to be life
26:31saviors.
26:32You go to a
26:33doctor when you're
26:34sick and you
26:34want to get
26:35cured.
26:36Do doctors do
26:37this kind of
26:37thing?
26:38It's a shame.
26:39And I completely
26:40agree with the
26:41prime minister, and
26:42I'm glad that he
26:43has said this, that
26:44they have to be
26:45brought to books
26:46immediately.
26:47And they
26:47perpetrated, after
26:49due investigations,
26:50must be given
26:51the highest,
26:52strongest kind of
26:53punishment or be
26:54hung in public.
26:56And these kind of
26:57academics, you
26:58know, who have
26:59chosen this
27:00sinister path to
27:01terrorism, have
27:03to be caught.
27:04And I think it is
27:05time, you know, I
27:07have a few
27:07suggestions, you
27:10know, I hope I'm
27:11not overstepping
27:12my time, but I
27:14would just like to
27:15say that, you
27:15know, there has
27:16to be, we have
27:17to become much
27:18more proactive
27:19because everything
27:20is becoming
27:20extremely unsafe.
27:23You know, I
27:23could be
27:23You know, my
27:23bigger question,
27:24ma'am, you're
27:24absolutely right.
27:25What were other
27:26doctors at the
27:27Adolfala, you
27:28know, organization
27:29in Faridabad doing,
27:31for example?
27:31Would they not have
27:32known what's
27:33happening in their
27:33midst?
27:34General Hasnain, and
27:36Mr.
27:36Vaid and, you
27:37know, Mr.
27:38Yashavardan Azad,
27:39you've dealt with
27:40these things all
27:41your lives, all
27:42your careers, and
27:43I want to
27:43understand from
27:44you, could
27:45they have
27:45operated in a
27:46cocoon?
27:47Would their
27:48neighbors not
27:48have known?
27:49Would others
27:50not have known
27:50what they are
27:51up to?
27:51Or is there an
27:52enabling ecosystem?
27:53Is this what
27:58these elements
27:58are doing in
27:59our midst?
28:00Because that
28:01would be very
28:01very some
28:01again, subject
28:02to due
28:03process of
28:04law.
28:05You know, in
28:05India, fortunately,
28:06we don't hang
28:07people in public,
28:07madam, but, you
28:08know, Ms.
28:09Zeynath Shaukatari,
28:10but I would want
28:11due process of
28:12law to be
28:12followed and
28:13strictest possible
28:13action if that
28:14dettors.
28:15General Hasnain,
28:17one, how many
28:18more would people
28:19have known the
28:20kind of dangers
28:20that we still
28:21face, General
28:21Hasnain?
28:22See, Gaurav,
28:25I'm sure
28:26Vaidh Shah will
28:27bear me out
28:27completely.
28:29The business
28:30of overground
28:31workers in
28:32Jammu and
28:32Kashmir is
28:34far more
28:35serious than
28:35what we
28:36allude to
28:37normally.
28:38The networks
28:39are huge,
28:41and mostly
28:42we get
28:43satisfied with
28:44the elimination
28:45of a large
28:46number of
28:46hardcore
28:47terrorists.
28:48Hardcore
28:49terrorists are
28:49a menace,
28:50no doubt.
28:50They are a
28:51major threat
28:51to us.
28:52But it
28:52is the
28:53overground
28:53worker
28:53networks
28:54which are
28:54far greater
28:55to my
28:55mind.
28:56Because they
28:57are the
28:57ones who
28:58spread this
28:58into society.
29:00And you
29:00ask to
29:00your question
29:01whether people
29:02know about
29:03their existence
29:03or not,
29:04very much.
29:05Many times
29:06it happens
29:06that these
29:07networks are
29:07so large,
29:09anyone in
29:09society generally
29:10knows about
29:11them.
29:11The whole
29:12concept of
29:13hideouts in
29:13Jammu and
29:14Kashmir,
29:14for example.
29:15Could a
29:15hideout in a
29:16house be
29:17created without
29:18the neighbourhood
29:18coming to
29:19know about
29:19it?
29:20There's a
29:20very, very
29:20usual thing.
29:21The other
29:22worrisome thing,
29:24Gaurav, is the
29:25fact that we
29:26have had about
29:27five suicide
29:28bombings in
29:29Kashmir in the
29:29last 36 years.
29:31Not more.
29:32Only about
29:33four, five.
29:33Five of them,
29:34in fact.
29:34now suddenly to
29:36think of such a
29:37huge quantum of
29:38explosive and
29:39that too in
29:39Delhi, being
29:41transported from
29:42one place to
29:43the other, if
29:44there were three
29:44such bombers
29:45inside this
29:46car, probably
29:47their whole
29:48intention would
29:48have been to
29:49look for three
29:49places where to
29:50place IEDs or
29:52perhaps to even
29:52blast cars.
29:54So this
29:55culture is a
29:56very, very
29:56dangerous thing.
29:57It's not
29:58happened in
29:59India too
29:59often.
29:59It's
30:00happened in
30:00Pakistan,
30:01Afghanistan,
30:02it's happened in
30:02Iraq to a
30:03great extent.
30:04India mercifully
30:05has been free of
30:06this.
30:07And this is
30:07something we need
30:08to take stock
30:09of and go
30:10after these
30:10overground worker
30:11networks in a
30:12greater way.
30:12So I completely
30:14agree with you.
30:15Mr.
30:16Mr.
30:16Ved, how
30:17difficult is it
30:18to go after
30:18overground workers
30:19especially in
30:20Kashmir?
30:20I would imagine
30:21in rest of the
30:21country, it
30:23would be relatively
30:24easier, I at
30:25least hope and
30:26pray so, that
30:27intelligence agencies
30:28and police are
30:28able to go after
30:29them and based
30:30on evidence that
30:31the police are
30:31able to gather,
30:32there would be
30:33time-bound action
30:34and, you know,
30:36prosecution and
30:36punishment on the
30:37basis of evidence
30:38through courts of
30:39law, sir.
30:40Mr. Ved, how
30:40difficult is it in
30:41JNK?
30:43Gaurab, when a
30:45society gets
30:45radicalized and
30:47all its beings get
30:48affected, it is the
30:49family, it is the
30:51schools, the general
30:52atmosphere where
30:54these young boys
30:56pick up radical
30:58elements and it's a
31:00very, very serious
31:01threat and I agree
31:02with General
31:03Hasnan, a lot needs
31:05to be done to
31:06check radicalization.
31:08Not only in
31:08Kashmir Valley, it is
31:10a challenge for all
31:11of us in other
31:13parts of the country
31:13today, whether it
31:15is Kerala, whether
31:16it is West Bengal and
31:17many other parts of
31:18the country, I don't
31:19want to name all of
31:20them and today you
31:23are seeing what is
31:24happening in the
31:25whole Europe and
31:26America where also
31:28all the, but some of
31:30these countries have
31:31taken huge steps to
31:33counter radicalization.
31:35I think we have yet to
31:38take many, many steps
31:40to...
31:40Oh, absolutely.
31:41The time of being
31:42polite and politically
31:43correct, you know,
31:45evidence-based
31:45prosecution, Mr.
31:46Azad, isn't that the
31:48need of the hour?
31:49Before I bring in Dr.
31:50Tara Kartha, I want to
31:52understand from you,
31:53rest of the country,
31:54evidence-based
31:55prosecution should be
31:56relatively easier or do
31:58you fear that there
31:59would be an enabling
32:00ecosystem that will
32:01come and they will say,
32:02you know, when
32:03somebody chants
32:04Bharat Tere Tukde
32:05Honge in universities,
32:06that's freedom of
32:07expression.
32:08Do we need stricter
32:10action against those
32:11who say Bharat Tere
32:12Tukde Honge?
32:13That's not freedom of
32:14expression because
32:15courts also must realize
32:17today they are saying
32:18it, tomorrow they'll
32:19do it.
32:23Sir, I think you're
32:24on mute, sir.
32:27No, I'm not on mute.
32:30Can you hear me?
32:31Go on, sir.
32:31You see, the problem
32:35in the whole country
32:36is the judicial
32:38backlog and a very
32:39poor, poor
32:40prosecution.
32:41There's no doubt
32:42about it.
32:43In fact, the
32:43prosecution should also
32:44be there when the
32:45filing of the charge
32:46sheet is done,
32:47whether the case is
32:48actually made out or
32:49not.
32:50And if a case is
32:51made out to piece
32:52together the evidence
32:53in such a manner
32:54that, you know,
32:55immediately the case
32:57can be properly
32:58prosecuted.
32:59In fact, the Supreme
33:00Court has come down
33:01on the lower
33:03courts and said,
33:04why are the charges
33:05not being framed
33:06and they should be
33:07done in a particular
33:07time?
33:08You know,
33:09de-radicalization
33:09is a challenge
33:11which we need to
33:12do.
33:12I agree with
33:12Vaidh when he
33:14says that it is
33:15something not only
33:16in this country,
33:17but throughout the
33:18world.
33:18And therefore,
33:19this is one thing
33:20which the intelligence
33:21agencies, the
33:22security agencies,
33:23the society as a
33:25whole have to get
33:26into.
33:26And the last point
33:27which I wanted to
33:27tell you was that
33:28the question which
33:29you said, didn't the
33:30neighbors know what
33:31they were doing?
33:32You're right.
33:33Some of many of the
33:34neighbors know, but
33:35they keep quiet.
33:36They wish it away or
33:38they don't want to get
33:39into any kind of
33:40trouble.
33:41These are the kind of
33:42people we have to
33:42motivate to come out
33:44in the interests of the
33:45country because these
33:46doctors are not a
33:48blot on their uniform.
33:49They are also
33:50traitors to the
33:50country.
33:52Absolutely.
33:53And they're just
33:54being so unfair.
33:55They're being so unfair
33:56to the medical
33:57fraternity because I
33:58trust doctors with my
33:59eyes shut.
34:01They are healers.
34:02Doctors are second
34:03only to God.
34:04But these are elements
34:05who are devils
34:06incarnate should they
34:08actually have done
34:09what they stand
34:09accused of.
34:10And I want to bring
34:11in Dr. Tara Kartha
34:12and Dr. Tara Kartha,
34:13I'm on the point of
34:14those who are in
34:15enabling ecosystem.
34:17Aray, bache hai,
34:19kya hai diya
34:19university mein
34:20bharat tere tukne
34:21honge, toh kya hua?
34:22I want to talk
34:23about those who
34:24say cut India
34:25off at Assam.
34:26We will cut them
34:27off at Assam.
34:28We'll cut off
34:29India's northeast
34:29and that's seen
34:30as freedom of
34:30expression.
34:31Are those the
34:32elements?
34:33Today they are
34:33saying it,
34:34tomorrow they will
34:34do it like these
34:35doctors who are
34:36alleged to have
34:37done, madam?
34:38I'm 100%
34:40agreeing the
34:41agreement with you.
34:42This kind of talk
34:43can't be tolerated.
34:44And unfortunately,
34:45I have seen this
34:46firsthand in a
34:47certain state, in
34:48certain areas where
34:49the local police
34:51know about it.
34:52They can't go
34:53there.
34:54There are areas in
34:55this country which
34:56are actually no-go.
34:58And I think it's time
34:59we took those on,
35:00head on, sort them
35:01out as of now.
35:03Enough is enough.
35:04But there is one
35:05thing I want to
35:06caution on regarding
35:07Kashmir.
35:07I mean, I respect
35:09General Hassanen
35:10completely.
35:12What Pakistan wants
35:13you to do is to
35:15launch a huge sort
35:16of drive in Kashmir.
35:19You've got
35:19normalcy, quote
35:21unquote,
35:22normalcy back.
35:23When you take
35:24action against
35:25OGWs, it has to
35:27be a very, very
35:28careful exercise.
35:29That is a
35:30cautionary tale.
35:31But in the other
35:32areas, Gaurav, I am
35:34with you.
35:34We can't tolerate
35:35this kind of thing
35:36in our universities.
35:37It is simply not
35:38on.
35:39And those areas
35:41which the government
35:42knows about, I
35:44don't want to talk
35:45about it here.
35:46You need to take
35:46action there because
35:47those are kind of,
35:48you know, they are
35:49like festering wounds
35:50in this country's
35:52body.
35:53You know, how do
35:53you de-radicalize?
35:54I want to bring in,
35:55ma'am, you've raised
35:56a very pertinent point.
35:57How do you de-radicalize
35:58such elements?
35:59Because when you talk
36:00about a doctor, let's
36:01say, let's just talk
36:03about Dr. Adil, for
36:03example, or Dr.
36:04Muzzamil, or Dr.
36:05Umar Mohamed, why
36:06would you think that
36:08guys who made it in
36:09life, they're already
36:10MDBS doctors, they're
36:11studying to do their
36:12MS, they've achieved
36:14everything that you
36:15may want to achieve.
36:16You should only
36:16aspire to go higher.
36:18How do you de-radicalize
36:19these elements who
36:20seem to be wanting
36:21to go down?
36:22You're asking me?
36:29I'm asking Dr.
36:30Zeenat Shokatali, madam.
36:32Sorry.
36:34You see, Gaurav, what
36:35my simple point to
36:37de-radicalize is, you
36:39know, a suggestion that
36:40I have that every
36:42imam of the Muslims,
36:44when they're giving
36:45a sermon on a
36:48Friday, had to bring
36:50to light the certain
36:52verses that I'm going
36:53to quote, where murder
36:55is considered to be
36:56outside, outside of
37:00And catch a breath, but
37:01it's the imam that's
37:02sadly indoctrinating
37:03them here.
37:04You know, if you
37:06want to go to a mosque
37:07for light, it is the
37:09imam Malvi Irfan
37:11Ahmed who's accused
37:12of pushing them
37:13towards darkness.
37:15How do you sort that
37:16out?
37:18That is absolutely
37:19correct.
37:20What I'm simply
37:21saying is that all
37:23the imams have to
37:25get together.
37:26and on every
37:28Friday, give a
37:29sermon on the
37:31verses of the
37:31Quran which are
37:32saying that you
37:33cannot be a
37:34Muslim or called
37:36a Muslim if you
37:38are radicalized and
37:39start killing people
37:40because murder, and
37:42I'm reading you the
37:43verses of the
37:44Quran, there is
37:45the verse of
37:48Surah 5, number
37:4932, where
37:51if you kill one
37:53innocent human
37:54being, it is as
37:55if you have killed
37:56all mankind.
37:56You're killing the
37:56entire humanity.
37:57Absolutely.
37:59Then there is
38:00verse number 17,
38:01number 33, and
38:036, and 157, which
38:05talk, nor take a
38:07life that God has
38:08made sacred.
38:09I'm reading to you a
38:10direct verse of the
38:10Quran.
38:11The prohibition of
38:12aggression is
38:13contributed to your
38:15own destruction.
38:16You are destroyed
38:17with the...
38:18Ma'am, catch your
38:19breath.
38:20Let me bring in
38:20Dr. Tara
38:22Kartha as you catch
38:23your breath for a
38:24moment.
38:25Dr. Tara
38:25Kartha, you seem
38:27to disagree on the
38:28point that they can
38:29be de-radicalized just
38:31by getting the right
38:33sermons from their
38:35imams.
38:35No, I just wanted
38:38to quickly say,
38:39ironically, Pakistan's
38:41Punjab, they've
38:42extended section
38:431, 126, and
38:45they've said, no
38:46Friday prayers.
38:47They've shut it
38:48down.
38:49Can you do that
38:49here?
38:50You can't.
38:52You know, so there
38:53is a...
38:54When you want to do
38:55something and you
38:55decide this area is
38:57not on, you shut
38:59down these people who
39:00are talking this kind
39:01of thing.
39:01What she said is
39:02very right.
39:03This is not what
39:04Islam preaches.
39:05Yes.
39:07Yes.
39:07You know, because
39:08from what my sources
39:09are telling and now
39:10it's breaking on
39:11India today, the
39:12Red Fort terror
39:13attack was not a
39:15suicide attack, not
39:16a planned suicide
39:17attack.
39:17And this is what
39:18sources have been
39:19telling me all along.
39:20Big, big story now
39:21being confirmed by
39:22top officials in
39:23India's intelligence
39:24agencies inside
39:26scoop on the Red
39:27Fort blast here on
39:28India today.
39:30This was not a
39:31suicide attack.
39:33It was in panic
39:34that Dr.
39:35Mohamed Umar
39:36triggered the
39:37explosives that he
39:39was carrying in
39:40that I-20 vehicle.
39:42That is what sources
39:43are telling India
39:44today because the
39:45vehicle was in
39:45transit.
39:46Remember, there
39:47hasn't been an
39:47instance in the
39:48past where a
39:49vehicle was in
39:50transit, slowly
39:51moving from one
39:52direction to the
39:53other, stopped at
39:54a red light and
39:55suddenly there was a
39:56blast in the past.
39:58Every time there's
39:58been a VBIED or a
40:00vehicle-borne
40:01improvised explosive
40:02device, it was by
40:04design, by
40:05intention.
40:05For example, Pulwama
40:08in 2019, RDX and
40:10explosives were
40:11packed in that car
40:12and that car went
40:14and banged into the
40:15CRPF convoy, killing
40:1640 personnel.
40:17Or I want to take
40:18you back to the
40:18first VBIED attack
40:20that took place at
40:21the main gate of the
40:22Badami Bakken
40:22tournament in
40:23Srinagar when the
40:24first suicide bombing
40:25in Kashmir had taken
40:26place after the
40:27Kargil war where a
40:28local Kashmiri lad
40:29rammed into the
40:30main gate of the
40:31Badami Bakken
40:32tournament.
40:32That was by design.
40:34In this case, sources
40:35are telling India
40:36today, after initial
40:38assessment, this was
40:40not a suicide attack.
40:42The suspect, Dr.
40:43Mohammed Omar,
40:44triggered the
40:45explosion in panic.
40:46The bomb was
40:47prematurely pieced
40:49together.
40:50It wasn't a fully
40:51developed, improvised,
40:53explosive device.
40:55And fortunately, it
40:57limited the impact.
40:58The explosion did
40:59not create a crater.
41:01There were no
41:01shrapnel.
41:02Remember, IEDs, like
41:04we were discussing
41:04even yesterday on
41:05India First, an IED
41:06has ball bearings, it
41:08has nails, it has
41:09screws, because the
41:11moment it triggers an
41:12explosion with high
41:13velocity, with high
41:14intensity, these
41:15projectiles, it's
41:16almost like little
41:17bullets, these
41:18projectiles go and
41:19embed themselves in
41:20your body, your eyes,
41:21your brain, your head,
41:22your ear, your entire
41:23body, and they
41:24dismember your body and
41:25a person can die if a
41:26projectile, if it's a
41:27screw, a nail, a ball
41:28bearing, pierces your
41:29body, that is what an
41:31IED does and have
41:32covered many of these
41:32IED attacks in
41:34different parts of our
41:34country, this was not
41:36that.
41:36The vehicle was still
41:37in transit, it was
41:39moving when there was a
41:40sudden explosion.
41:41I quickly want to cut
41:42across to India Today's
41:43Munish Pandey, who
41:44joins us with the
41:45latest and Munish, you've
41:46been speaking to your
41:47sources in the
41:48intelligence agencies
41:49and the police, bring
41:50us details of their
41:51initial assessment.
41:52Well, Gaurav, a few
41:58things are very clear.
42:00The person who is
42:01responsible for carrying
42:02out these attacks at
42:04Lalkila, where I'm
42:06standing, he panicked
42:08and in that panic
42:10situation, he carried out
42:14that blast.
42:15It is very clear from the
42:16initial finding by the
42:18intelligence agencies and
42:19why he panicked, because
42:21there was alertness, there
42:22was action carried out by
42:24multiple agencies, including
42:26Jammu and Kashmir police,
42:28where they carried out, you
42:29know, search and Caesar
42:31operation in Faridabad.
42:32There were several of the
42:34key individuals who were
42:36detained or arrested by the
42:37Jammu and Kashmir police.
42:39And it was very clear
42:40because at 6.10 yesterday
42:43evening, Gaurav, there was
42:44a tweet also by the Jammu
42:46and Kashmir police regarding
42:48Dr. Umar Mohammed is
42:50that you can't, you can
42:52run, but you can't hide.
42:53So it was very clear that
42:55he panicked.
42:55And in that panic
42:56situation, when he reached
42:58this particular spot where
43:00I'm standing, he decided
43:03to carry out the blast, a
43:05bomb, which was not even
43:06fully developed.
43:08And this is why the impact
43:11was very limited.
43:12There was no crater.
43:13There was no sharp knell.
43:15As you rightly pointed out,
43:17Gaurav, we have
43:17carried, we have covered
43:19several such blasts and
43:20which, in which we have
43:21seen the impact is huge.
43:24But in this case, you know,
43:25the impact was limited.
43:27Unfortunately, nine
43:29individuals, eight innocent
43:31individuals lost their life.
43:33several others have injured.
43:34So, Munish, just try and explain
43:34this to me.
43:35But even the agencies are saying
43:37that this was not a planned
43:39offensive.
43:40But explain this to me.
43:41He entered Delhi and we are
43:43looking at the timestamps of
43:44those images.
43:45He entered Delhi at four minutes
43:47past eight in the morning.
43:48Early morning, eight o'clock
43:50from Faridabad through the
43:51Badarpur border, he enters Delhi,
43:53goes to that Okhla petrol pump
43:54at 8.20.
43:55Where was he between 8.20 and
43:5919 minutes past three o'clock
44:00when he entered the Suneheri
44:02Masjid parking lot?
44:03What did he do for three hours
44:05between, I think, 19 minutes
44:08past three to 48 minutes past six?
44:11Where was he during this three
44:13hour period?
44:19Well, Gaurav, he left Faridabad
44:23yesterday morning and later when
44:25he entered Delhi, he took
44:26several routes.
44:28The CCTV images have appeared
44:30before the agencies.
44:33They have seized those CCTV
44:34images and, you know, they are
44:36trying to track the entire route.
44:38But it is very clear that he was
44:39not very sure where to go,
44:42where to carry out the blasts.
44:44It was not.
44:45It is very clear from the
44:46initial investigation.
44:48For three hours, Gaurav, he was
44:50in the parking lot.
44:52What he was doing, what he was
44:54thinking, that is still not clear.
44:56And moment after, he left the
44:58parking lot around 6.20 in the
45:00evening.
45:01It took almost 20, 25 minutes
45:03for him to reach from that
45:05particular parking to this
45:07particular spot.
45:08And around 6.52, he
45:09carried out the blasts.
45:10It means that he was not very
45:13sure where to carry out the
45:14blasts.
45:14There was no support to him.
45:16That is also very clear because
45:18most of the key individuals were
45:20either arrested, detained, or
45:22they were pinned down.
45:23They were holed up.
45:24So it was, there was no ground
45:26support to him.
45:27There was no one to carry out a
45:28recce for him so that he can
45:30choose a better place to carry out
45:33the blasts.
45:33And in panic, he decided to, you
45:36know, detonate the unprepared bomb,
45:40what the agencies are calling at
45:41this particular spot.
45:43So, also explain to me before I bring
45:46in our guests once again into this
45:47conversation, what was the reason
45:49that Dr. Adil Muzambil and Omar
45:52Mohammed will talk in just a moment.
45:54These two doctors from Uttar Pradesh,
45:56Dr. Shaheen Shaida, this lady doctor who
45:59apparently was setting up the Jaisen
46:01Mohammed's women wing in India and
46:03her brother, Dr. Parvez Ansari.
46:06I mean, they were doing so well in
46:08life.
46:08They come from a good family.
46:10They had multiple homes.
46:12They were doing well.
46:13MBBS, MS.
46:14What made them become terrorists or
46:16suspected terrorists at this stage?
46:23Well, Gaurav, it is very clear that
46:25these individuals were radicalized,
46:27radicalized in a manner that they risk
46:29not only their lives, but they went
46:31against the country.
46:33They participated very actively,
46:35not only for a terror network, but also
46:38for carrying out terror activities.
46:40And as far as, you know, Dr. Shahida is
46:43concerned, it is very clear that she not
46:45only provided ground support, not only
46:48provided logistical support, but she also
46:50provided her personal car to carry out
46:53the weapons, for example, AK-47 and
46:56other such things.
46:57And she was also, you know, arranging
46:59funds for it.
47:00That is what the sources are telling us.
47:02At the same time, Dr. Omar Muhammad, he
47:05was also linked to several other doctors in
47:09the same area, from the same university, from
47:12the same premises.
47:13And it appears that those individuals have
47:16also been questioned because they are the
47:18one who, at this point of time, have key
47:22information, there are six individuals, Gaurav,
47:24those who have been questioned today, three
47:27by the Faridabad police, three by the Jammu and
47:29Kashmir police, and all because they were in
47:32touch with Dr. Omar Muhammad.
47:34And it is very clear, Gaurav, that this network is
47:38much bigger than what it is appearing today.
47:41There are several individuals who, you know, in
47:45eyes of general public, they hold a very, you know,
47:49sophisticated role that they are doctor, they are
47:51doing very well in life, but at the same time,
47:55they were conspiring, they were working on behest
47:58of their masterminds, probably from across the
48:01border, and they were involved in terror
48:03activities.
48:04So from what my sources in the government are
48:06telling me, there's a list that's been drawn out.
48:09Those doctors who were in touch with Malvi Irfan
48:12Ahmed.
48:13And this is where that list becomes very crucial over
48:16the years.
48:17How many people had he indoctrinated?
48:19Are these all young doctors or are there sleeper
48:22cells?
48:22Remember, these are sleeper cells of terrorist
48:24organizations.
48:25If they're carrying out a terror attack to bleed
48:27innocent Indians and Dr.
48:29Zeenath Ali, you know, the last 30 seconds I have on
48:32this part of the show, these elements who may have
48:36been indoctrinated, perhaps now are at crossroads.
48:38They can either walk back, join the mainstream, or
48:42perhaps, as Prime Minister Narendra Modi warned, they
48:46will not be spared.
48:47Strictest possible action as per law will be taken
48:49against them.
48:51Absolutely.
48:52You have to take the action against them.
48:54But there's just one thing I'd like to point out.
48:56You know, when we are talking about radicalization and
49:00the people who are radicalizing, you see, when I
49:03mentioned the imams, I just didn't mention them for
49:05any reason.
49:06You have to get hold of those people who are trying to
49:09radicalize and destroy the mind of the young people.
49:14You know, it brings to mind this film that was made many
49:16years ago called Dilse.
49:18You see, where this girl, you know, becomes a suicide bomber
49:21to destroy something.
49:22And because she was brainwashed.
49:24Now, the whole point is that how do you de-radicalize?
49:28How do you radicalize young people?
49:30That's because you misquote, you misteach the teachings and
49:36they use religion as a weapon.
49:38And it has to be de-weaponized.
49:40You have to de-weaponize religion.
49:43And here I'm going on to...
49:44And perhaps that is where it comes from within religion and
49:47within well-respected members of the community like
49:50yourself, you know, who can do it and do it so effectively
49:54across the length and breadth of our country.
49:56The process of de-radicalization.
49:59Because perhaps now it's time to choose.
50:02And I sincerely, sincerely believe Dr. Zeenath Sokattali,
50:06many thanks for joining me on this part of India First.
50:08But as we end this show, it's time to choose.
50:12And Dilse, I hope the choice is India First.
50:17We'll be tracking that story very, very closely as this massive
50:21nationwide crackdown on such elements begins.
50:25Because they live amongst us.
50:27Are they plotting to kill us from the doctor in Hyderabad to
50:30these doctors from Kashmir and Faridabad and those in
50:34Saharanpur and Lucknow?
50:35We'll be tracking the story very, very closely.
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